Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : Jal


⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
03-03-2009, 03:45 PM
Just heard from my JAL buddy that after some 50 years of using foreign crews (mostly American but also Canadian, Australian, etc.) they will no longer be doing that... Sounds like all those crews will now be permanently laid off...


SEGATAKI
03-03-2009, 08:21 PM
I was informed by a US captain at JAL that JAL is shutting down Jalways as of April 1, 2009. Which would mean the elimination of all foreign national jobs at IASCO, HACS and WASINC contracted out to JAL. Jalways operates a large share of the flights from NRT to HNL. Does this mean that JAL is gong to terminate all of the most popular flights in the JAL system? Or will they eliminate the contract companies and offer employment directly to the contract pilots currently employed by a contract?

I hope it is the latter , that would be a huge savings to JAL.....not having to pay the contract companies. It would be hard to believe that JAL is eliminating, or has enough Japanese pilots to fly the routes currently being flown by the contract pilots. I flew for JAL for 10 years and I find it hard to believe that the company can fly all of their routes without their foreign national pilots.

Speed
03-03-2009, 08:45 PM
I know that JAL is really struggling financially. I could see them eliminating other routes and moving mainline crews to HNL and other mainline routes. They've also been using expats on the EMB out of Nagoya. These crews affected, too?


⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
03-03-2009, 08:53 PM
Here's the industry Intel our (IPA) union put out about it. My friend works there on a WASINC contract and he said no one knows if they’ll get any severance pay, etc...



JAL Downsizes, Terminates Contracts With Pilot Agencies
(Letter to JAL Pilots, March 3)

Yesterday, JAL’s Board of Directors voted to terminate the master leasing contracts with WASINC, HACS, and IASCO effective July 1, 2009.

According to a letter to pilots from the company, this decision came as a result of the severe impact of the worldwide economic crisis. The three agencies mentioned are contracting companies which provide contract pilots for JAL. There is no word yet on how many pilots will lose their jobs as a result of the downsizing fair amount of western pilots who fly for JAL.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
03-03-2009, 09:09 PM
I was informed by a US captain at JAL that JAL is shutting down Jalways as of April 1, 2009. Which would mean the elimination of all foreign national jobs at IASCO, HACS and WASINC contracted out to JAL. Jalways operates a large share of the flights from NRT to HNL. Does this mean that JAL is gong to terminate all of the most popular flights in the JAL system? Or will they eliminate the contract companies and offer employment directly to the contract pilots currently employed by a contract?

I hope it is the latter , that would be a huge savings to JAL.....not having to pay the contract companies. It would be hard to believe that JAL is eliminating, or has enough Japanese pilots to fly the routes currently being flown by the contract pilots. I flew for JAL for 10 years and I find it hard to believe that the company can fly all of their routes without their foreign national pilots.
Unfortunately, it looks like they’ll be cutting down on many flights and what’s left will be flown by Japanese pilots only, no more foreigners flying for JAL… In this economy you can’t really blame them for protecting their own… :(

Short Final
03-04-2009, 07:43 AM
"no more foreigners flying for JAL… In this economy you can’t really blame them for protecting their own"… :(

Too bad that doesn't happen in the U.S.

thepotato232
03-04-2009, 08:34 AM
I know that JAL is really struggling financially. I could see them eliminating other routes and moving mainline crews to HNL and other mainline routes. They've also been using expats on the EMB out of Nagoya. These crews affected, too?

Were the expats already up and running on the J-AIR contract? I thought the local pilots had yet to hand over the shiny new planes. The EMBs had only been flying a month or so, right?

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
03-04-2009, 11:09 AM
Too bad that doesn't happen in the U.S.
Well, it can't happen because not one single US airline has a separate unit where they exclusively hire foreign pilots... You must be a US citizen (or a legal permanent resident) to get hired at any US based airline. JAL on the other hand has been hiring foreign nationals, people with no connections to Japan, for years...

got2fly
03-04-2009, 11:16 AM
Were the expats already up and running on the J-AIR contract? I thought the local pilots had yet to hand over the shiny new planes. The EMBs had only been flying a month or so, right?
No, all expats for J-Air are still in training. They've been told (as of today) that their contract and their job is still in tact and training continues. J-Air actually contracted with Embraer to supply 30 captains with the airplanes, so it appears to be a package deal.

cactusmike
03-04-2009, 02:13 PM
This is really sad news. I have a friend who has been there 15 years at least. At least there is some demand for 747 drivers. I think that they had been checked out on the -400, hadn't they?

Mythbuster
03-04-2009, 03:53 PM
Are the JALways guys on commuting contracts or did JAL sponsor them to live in Japan?

wyomingpilot
03-04-2009, 08:05 PM
Almost all Jalways pilots were commuters to Japan and based in HNL. As I understand it the JAL pilot union fought vigorously to NOT allow foreign pilots to fly the 747-400. With the classics becoming expensive to operate the writing was on the wall if the Ex Pats were not allowed to fly the 400 their jobs would be eventually eliminated. It looks like the JAL pilot union was succesful in NOT allowing Ex Pats to fly the 400. This will not effect other JAL contracts in the short term like J-Air or the 737 pilots flying at JAL. It will also in the short term not effect ANA pilots but the political tide could change if they ever start furloughing Japanese pilots and Ex Pats are still employed, a round of protectionism could start. The Japanese economy is struggling and load factors are very low on most travel destinations. Cargo loads are also way down.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
03-04-2009, 08:31 PM
This is really sad news. I have a friend who has been there 15 years at least. At least there is some demand for 747 drivers. I think that they had been checked out on the -400, hadn't they?
I know some, such as my friend, were in the -400 transition training when they cancelled the class and sent them home...

The Dominican
03-05-2009, 01:46 PM
The Japanese economy is struggling and load factors are very low on most travel destinations. Cargo loads are also way down.

The loads are really not that bad here at ANA, but the freight has indeed gone down by a good third.

I know some, such as my friend, were in the -400 transition training when they cancelled the class and sent them home...

Some of the guys where already qualified on the 744, those guys are not in a too bad of a position since there are quite a bit more gigs out there for 744 drivers than for the classic. Heard that the contract agencies will give priority interviewing to those guys here at the ANA contracts

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
03-06-2009, 12:12 AM
...Some of the guys where already qualified on the 744, those guys are not in a too bad of a position since there are quite a bit more gigs out there for 744 drivers than for the classic. Heard that the contract agencies will give priority interviewing to those guys here at the ANA contracts
My friend actually tried to interview at ANA over a year ago but was told they couldn't interview anyone who was employed at JAL - sounds like a mutual JAL-ANA agreement?

Well, he stayed in touch with the ANA recruiter (maybe even chief pilot, can’t remember?) and a few days ago was told they'll try to arrange an interview since they still have his file.

Hope it's true, I know he wouldn't mind moving to Japan as he married a Japanese lady...

The Dominican
03-06-2009, 07:32 AM
There was indeed a gentlemen agreement between the two airlines to not scavenge from one another ( I was told by a contract agency rep ) but for what I have heard, apparently there is a drive to give these folks priority interview since it will represent a huge cost savings in training, these folks already have Japanese ATPL's and are quite used to JCAB check rides, the culture and flying in Asia. I suspect that quite a bit of the F/O's will probably go for DEC positions at AJV although some of the guys that are already qualified in the 744's will target KAL's 777's and A330's or target NCA. I wish them all the best of luck, I've had the opportunity to befriend quite a bit of the Jalways crews and they are an outstanding group of guys

pegasus6234
03-08-2009, 06:02 AM
I was in the last FO 744 transition class. We were allowed to complete the rating with the JCAB, but not scheduled for IOE. I was lucky to get the J-type, but have 0 hours in the aircraft. I just filled out an app or 10, and have flown 24 hours in the last 6 months...yikes. My class in in a unique position. The thought of going back to Japan for 6 more months of training is making me ill, but a paycheck is a paycheck. Hopefully we will get some offers.

Joachim
03-08-2009, 07:16 AM
Too bad that doesn't happen in the U.S.

It doesn't. Only permanent residents and citizens can work here.

74plb
03-08-2009, 11:13 AM
I was in the last FO 744 transition class. We were allowed to complete the rating with the JCAB, but not scheduled for IOE. I was lucky to get the J-type, but have 0 hours in the aircraft. I just filled out an app or 10, and have flown 24 hours in the last 6 months...yikes. My class in in a unique position. The thought of going back to Japan for 6 more months of training is making me ill, but a paycheck is a paycheck. Hopefully we will get some offers.

Good luck to you. The Japanese took my cheese in October 2006. I was a 74 engineer in LAX. :( Are you still on the payroll until June 30th?

74plb

captjohndoe
03-08-2009, 04:58 PM
Hope for the best for the Jalways guys. Currently we have 3 or 4 ex-Jalways pilots here at AJX and AJV who were hired within last few years. So maybe not a big problem coming over if interested - especially now.

thumbiman
03-13-2009, 07:02 PM
Who exactly does the US airlines give away pilot jobs to? Are they asking people to come from other countries here to fly?

flyboy8272
03-17-2009, 07:56 PM
I think, especially during these economic times, that ALL US companies should be required to lay off ALL non-US citizens before they lay off any US citizens... Protect Our Own!!

Al Bundy
03-18-2009, 04:33 AM
deleted,,,,

B757200ER
03-18-2009, 07:54 AM
Terrible news; another 220+ pilots on the street. And, this was one of the best contract gigs out there. Best of luck to all JALways pilots/FEs.

Alaskadude
04-03-2009, 06:19 PM
Good luck to you. The Japanese took my cheese in October 2006. I was a 74 engineer in LAX. :( Are you still on the payroll until June 30th?

74plb

Hey, I was also a 74 FE at LAX until I moved to the ANC base. Worked there until JAL terminated us. One of the other ex JAL FE's told me about the layoffs yesterday and I found this site on a google search for more info.

Is there a way to send PM's? If I can figure it out I'll send one to you.

As a hint, my name is Bob and I was the "social director" during our training. :D

Luv2Rotate
04-03-2009, 06:52 PM
Okay, this really sucks that even more pilots will be on the streets. These guys have flown for JALways for 5-20yrs and are being shown the door for Japanese citizens. But don't most of these Japaense pilots come to the U.S. for their training?
My youngest brother is in a 141 flight school in Napa CA, and said that the rates have gone through the roof mainly because the foregin pilots will pay whatever it takes (the airlines sponsor them) to complete ratings. Maybe its just me but perhaps we should not allow our 141 schools to train foreign pilots. Especially if they are keeping their own and getting rid of western pilots. Just my .02

74plb
04-03-2009, 07:25 PM
Hey, I was also a 74 FE at LAX until I moved to the ANC base. Worked there until JAL terminated us. One of the other ex JAL FE's told me about the layoffs yesterday and I found this site on a google search for more info.

Is there a way to send PM's? If I can figure it out I'll send one to you.

As a hint, my name is Bob and I was the "social director" during our training. :D

Hey Bob,
I think there is a minimum number of post before you can PM. I was in your wedding and spent the night at the InnSkip Inn and Blackie the dog kept licking my wifes foot..:)
Rigby has my number if you want to get in touch. I was as surprised as anyone when JalWays announced the lay-offs. Give me a call and let me know how things are going. Next time I'm in ANC maybe we can have lunch or dinner.
Sorry for the thread drift.
74plb

GreenTailWhale
04-04-2009, 04:17 PM
JAL is a Japanese airline. Their first priority should be, and is, Japanese pilots. And vice versa for American airlines.

With that being said, my best wishes to those pilots who have lost their jobs. Tough times for all right now.


Okay, this really sucks that even more pilots will be on the streets. These guys have flown for JALways for 5-20yrs and are being shown the door for Japanese citizens. But don't most of these Japaense pilots come to the U.S. for their training?
My youngest brother is in a 141 flight school in Napa CA, and said that the rates have gone through the roof mainly because the foregin pilots will pay whatever it takes (the airlines sponsor them) to complete ratings. Maybe its just me but perhaps we should not allow our 141 schools to train foreign pilots. Especially if they are keeping their own and getting rid of western pilots. Just my .02

captjns
04-04-2009, 05:33 PM
There are many risks involved for expats one being that they can be made redundant at the drop of the hat. That is a risk that many are willing to accept. Expats can be compared to nomads of the desert. Wondering from contract to contract all over the around the world. Many foreign contracts are like an oasis… they pop up out of nowhere… good pay, benefits, and wonderful experiences in many parts of the planet. But unfortunately they don’t last forever and the well dries up, and again the search for another oasis is embarked upon.

To those at JAL, may your search be short and bare an abundance of fruit.

Windsor
04-04-2009, 05:57 PM
but for what I have heard, apparently there is a drive to give these folks priority interview


I spoke with my contact at PARC on friday. The JAL guys go to the front of the line for interviews at AJX/AJV.

cactusmike
04-04-2009, 09:00 PM
Yeah, I haven't heard from ANA and the agencies since January. Things have dried up since the first of the year. That's ok, I have a job right now, as screwed up as it is, and the preference should be on the guys that are on the street.

Alaskadude
04-05-2009, 03:14 PM
When I got hired by JAL for the LAX base in 1989 I really figured we'd only be there 3 - 6 years. Flying with them for 17 years was a bonus I guess.

74plb
04-06-2009, 01:37 PM
When I got hired by JAL for the LAX base in 1989 I really figured we'd only be there 3 - 6 years. Flying with them for 17 years was a bonus I guess.

Yeah, I figured the job was going to be a 5 year gig myself. I had just gotten divorced, UPS had just started their own airline and didn't hire me so I figured why not?
I still see some of the guys that live in the NW, In fact I went to the range with another LAX based guy today. We then had coffee with yet another Jal-Ways PFE. The job is gone but the friendships continue.
Quite a few guys now work at Southern that you know from the Anc base.
All in all it was a pretty good job even though we were Christmas help and almost okay. The European and Brazilian FA's were alot of fun during and after training. Can't say I miss the LOFT training and annual Ditching though.:)

Alaskadude
04-08-2009, 08:58 PM
Can't say I miss the LOFT training and annual Ditching though.:)

The insane physicals and PE standards are something I don't miss.

I've only seen a couple of the guys since we're kinda off the beaten path up here. So, how does all this affect IASCO? They still have the training department in NAPA I assume?

74plb
04-08-2009, 09:44 PM
They still have the Napa training Facility, but the JAL group now has part ownership somehow. I'm out of touch with what is currently happening with Iasco.
The Jal-Ways guys a pretty decent severance package. As you recall we got a letter thanking us for our service. Yamazaki sent the LA guys a nice postcard when we left, other than that I haven't heard from anybody JAL-wise.
One of the Jal-Ways training Captains lives down the street from me but I haven't seen him since the lay-off announcement.
Did you do any off the Moses Lake stuff? Or did you miss most of it by going to ANC? I don't miss that either...

Alaskadude
04-14-2009, 09:58 PM
I went to Moses Lake once or twice and I am REALLY glad I moved to ANC so I didn't have to do that anymore. :rolleyes:

I haven't seen any of the LA guys since our contracts were cancelled two years ago but I have kept in email contact with my Australian training partner and I did contact one of the former ANC captains recently online. The wife had a brief exchange of pleasantries on Facebook with her former boss, the CEO of IASCO about three months ago but that's about it.

For now though, I'm working our store and in my spare time I work on getting the fishing gear sorted out. Other than that, I just wait to see if Mt. Redoubt will erupt again. Some fun.