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View Full Version : Trans States All Call 03/31/2009


CaptainCarl
03-31-2009, 06:21 PM
I have been jumping in and out of the call all night. Anyone who has been listening all night, can you summarize what they have been talking about? Will they post the recording on our ALPA website? Thanks.


Copperhed51
03-31-2009, 07:21 PM
The call began with the MEC guys talking about how the last round of negotiations went. Basically the summary of what they said was that they almost TA'd 4 more sections and the company offered the MEC a package deal on those 4 sections. Apparently the whole thing looked good except for one very important paragraph in the System Board section. That paragraph basically made it so that anything that goes to arbitration is bound by the precise wording of the contract and makes the arbitrator completely worthless. No longer would he be able to use standard practices and historical practices to make rulings. The MEC said that paragraph was like a "poison pill" to the whole thing the company offered so they declined and that caused all 4 sections to not be TA'd. You'd think the company would allow the other 3 sections to be TA'd and then work on the 4th later but nope.

I guess there are 19 out of 28 sections that have been TA'd. A couple of those sections are minor like definitions and such but there are some pretty big ones like compensation, etc.

Also they talked a lot about the process of being released to self help. They were optimistic about the appointment of the new person to the NMB (should be confirmed by congress by the end of May or June I think they said) and think that should help us out a lot. They said the bridge agreement appeared somewhat like a last ditch effort to get us to behave until they can maybe get GoJet figured out or something. That's not the MEC's exact wording but that's the impression I got. The MEC echoed the belief that TSH might be having trouble getting funding for the GJ side since TSA is in negotiations and possibly nearing a strike. They also said that we all know you can go to one bank for a loan and get denied and go to the next and get approved so who knows.

The issue of GoJet came up and they said there is still a grievance open about that but there is a lack of evidence for the traditional sense of an Alter-Ego. The traditional way to create an alter-ego is to close the doors one day and open up the next with the exact same company with just a different name. That's not what happened with TSA/GJ. They also mentioned another avenue of persuing the issue but I forgot what that was. Either way, the grievance is still open but there is just a lack of concrete evidence that ALPA needs. They said they could persue it at any time if they had the evidence.

A lot of the Q&A surrounded the GJ stuff and the MEC guys echoed a lot of what's been said around here. They think GJ is using TSA to fund GJ and if they can just stretch out the negotiations longer, they might be able to get rid of TSA. On the other hand, they say we are the 2nd lowest paid and one of the the top 5 most profitable regionals so there's no reason for Hulas to really want to be rid of us. So who knows what'll happen there.

Another point they made is that in order for us to get released to self help we need to be fairly close to a new contract but just at an impasse on a few sections. So it is in our best interest to TA a few more sections and that's why they think the company offered the 4 sections as an "all or nothing" package. They didn't want us getting too close to TA'ing the whole contract and knew that poison pill would get the deal rejected.

I can't remember much other than that. I hung up after about 6 Q&A questions to do some P90X (crazy good workout for anybody looking for something to do during their furlough). If anybody has anything to add or thinks I should delete anything that is too revealing, feel free to say so.

undflyboy06
03-31-2009, 08:04 PM
Every waterskier, either active or furloughed should send an e-mail to their senator advocating the cause of swearing in Linda Puchala to the NMB. Puchala is a pro labor advocate and her swearing in will give a 2 to 1 advantage in the NMB. I'm going to be making a rough draft tonight and e-mailing my senator tomorrow.

U.S. Senate: Senators Home (http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm)

This link will take you to a site where you can find the senator that pertains to the state where you live. You can then e-mail your senator.


Purpleanga
03-31-2009, 08:07 PM
Did they say why the company rejected the single list proposal since it wouldn't cost much anyways. Hulas's cover is blown, GJ is using TSA for funding and will eventually be taking over TSA. TSA pilots will strike if there is anything short of job security so why is Hulas trying to dance around the inevitable? Is there a chance for Hulas to cease TSA ops anyways??

250 or point 65
03-31-2009, 08:08 PM
JERK! I skipped Plyometrics to listen to the whole thing. Now I gotta double it up with Shoulders and Arms tomorrow!

My question had to do with the feasibility of actually merging the lists.

I hear BURFLYER and others on here always go on about "gojet's pilots wouldn't go for it" and on and on, so i wanted to know if it were actually possible. So here it is...YES.

The possibility lies in getting mgmt...through the contract...to admit fault in the grievance. Of course, they wouldn't just do this, so we'd have to give a lot to get a lot i think, but thats the negotiation comittee's job

I was really impressed by the whole process and really appreciated the lawyer's views on things. It really validates our position i think.

undflyboy06
03-31-2009, 08:20 PM
I found the discussion that pertains to GoJet possibly using TSA's profits to help fund their fleet very interesting.

It would make sense. The proposal that management made for the bridge program would extend our already expired contract, which would put TSA in a situation where profits can still be make. Then once the time frame for the bridge program expires GoJet will be more financially stable. This will put TSA in a bad situation, because we would loose the leverage of striking.

Copperhed51
03-31-2009, 08:40 PM
JERK! I skipped Plyometrics to listen to the whole thing. Now I gotta double it up with Shoulders and Arms tomorrow!

Oh man, that sounds like it's gonna be a brutal day. Good luck with that!

My question had to do with the feasibility of actually merging the lists.

I hear BURFLYER and others on here always go on about "gojet's pilots wouldn't go for it" and on and on, so i wanted to know if it were actually possible. So here it is...YES.

The possibility lies in getting mgmt...through the contract...to admit fault in the grievance. Of course, they wouldn't just do this, so we'd have to give a lot to get a lot i think, but thats the negotiation comittee's job

I was really impressed by the whole process and really appreciated the lawyer's views on things. It really validates our position i think.

I was impressed also. They said that the company won't even discuss the matter of merging the lists right now. They were under the impression that the company is holding that until the very end of negotiations. Maybe something to discuss during the cooling off period. It was a very informative call though.

CaptainCarl
03-31-2009, 09:04 PM
Thanks Copperhead, undflyboy, purp, and 250 for the update. Anyone know the max number on the call? I checked it once at 76.

250 or point 65
03-31-2009, 09:08 PM
At one point i think they updated it at 110....was there a way we could check?

flaps 9
03-31-2009, 09:42 PM
Stay strong and stay united!!!!

When the time comes, do what is right. You will find that there will be plenty of support for you guys when the "line in the sand" is drawn.

Ex waterski

'99-'06

P.S. I hear that I'd be lucky to hold a reserve Captain in STL with my seniority. Is that true????

Purpleanga
03-31-2009, 10:14 PM
I was impressed also. They said that the company won't even discuss the matter of merging the lists right now. They were under the impression that the company is holding that until the very end of negotiations. Maybe something to discuss during the cooling off period. It was a very informative call though.

That is what I don't understand if they brought it up or not, why is it such a big deal for the company to merge the lists? Especially a small list like GJ and TSA, considering unofficially it's the same airline. TSA did have multiple fleets so it's nothing new to them. That would be the ultimate whipsaw like it was for Mesa/Freedom. You'd think merging the list would be good for management. They're delaying the inevitable I doubt anyone is going to sign anything unless there's job security first.

flynavyj
04-01-2009, 04:53 AM
I don't think most of the younger guys, or even people with say 10 more years to go, will not sign anything without job security. For the guys with a year left, they could probably milk it till the end.

To Flaps9:

With 10 years of seniority you'd be a junior CA, holding reserve in STL. 9 year CA's are going to IAD....Gotta love it.

fjetter
04-01-2009, 07:34 AM
To Flaps9:

With 10 years of seniority you'd be a junior CA, holding reserve in STL. 9 year CA's are going to IAD....Gotta love it.

That sounds pretty similar to what's going on at Comair requiring 10 years to hold the left seat reserve at JFK.. You guys aren't alone in feeling the hit:(

DMEarc
04-01-2009, 11:58 AM
JERK! I skipped Plyometrics to listen to the whole thing. Now I gotta double it up with Shoulders and Arms tomorrow!


P90X if I ever heard it.

Copperhed51
04-01-2009, 02:16 PM
P90X if I ever heard it.

Just finished Yoga X and am preparing for my first high speed. Who would have thought yoga would be so friggin hard?

Oh, another thing they mentioned on the phone call is that Pinnacle is ahead of us as far as getting released to self help most likely. Their contract negotiations are complicated by the fact that the company is actually willing to talk about Colgan in the negotiations as well. Their management seems at least a bit more reasonable than ours.

Foxcow
04-01-2009, 03:00 PM
There was a lot of good info. Too bad the company can't be as transparent.

G-Dog
04-02-2009, 04:53 AM
So let's get this straight. TSA management runs TSA pilots out and has GoJet pilots fly everything. Who do you think is next in getting the beat down from TSA management? What goes around, comes around.

Copperhed51
04-02-2009, 08:12 AM
So let's get this straight. TSA management runs TSA pilots out and has GoJet pilots fly everything. Who do you think is next in getting the beat down from TSA management? What goes around, comes around.

Hopefully you're right. The difference will be that GJ pilots will have absolutely no support from anybody.

BURflyer
04-02-2009, 08:51 AM
So let's get this straight. TSA management runs TSA pilots out and has GoJet pilots fly everything. Who do you think is next in getting the beat down from TSA management? What goes around, comes around.

Lets not get crazy here.... none of that has happened. TSA lost about 15 AA planes the rest are being leased out to Mexico. According to the last TSA newsletter that I read, the economy is bad and UA reps have said themselves that they don't prefer the ERJs, they would rather have more CRJ7s of which TSA does not have. The US rep was even better, only saying they'll continue to do do business with TSA if they think it's right..... which means never. It's only coincidental that it seems like TSA is falling appart and the evil GojetSSSS is the problem. The problem happened in 2005 and plenty of people had the chance to make it right.... they have up flying which they could have had, hulas was not obligated to deal with them right there but later on. They still refused, now there are crazy people out there synonymous with people talking to themselves in the streets screaming scabs and pseudo scabs while they're somewhere else or at the unemployement line. It's sad.

TBucket
04-02-2009, 08:59 AM
...would rather have more CRJ7s of which TSA does not have.

Hmm, and I wonder which group of pseudo-scabs is making sure that we don't? Oh, wait. You. Go find your own thread, this one is for waterskiiers and other real pilots.

BURflyer
04-02-2009, 09:03 AM
Hmm, and I wonder which group of pseudo-scabs is making sure that we don't? Oh, wait. You. Go find your own thread, this one is for waterskiiers and other real pilots.

You're right guy, every Thursday we meet at the airport Hilton to discuss how we're going to take over TSA. Nice to know that your attitude hasn't chanced, how do you expect to have a single list?

250 or point 65
04-02-2009, 09:10 AM
Get out of here, we are talking about OUR contract negotiations. The negotiations that you are hindering because you are willing to jump the fence.

And we WILL get job protection in some form or we won't vote for it. Although it will probably not be merging of the lists, we will either get our job protection or burn it down.

In my mind, if we don't get proper job protection, WE are just going to burn down slowly instead of quickly.

Job protection or bust.

ExperimentalAB
04-02-2009, 09:19 AM
Amen 250 and crew...

BURflyer
04-02-2009, 09:19 AM
Oh boy, the usual suspects are here.... nobody is trying to hinder anything. Just to make sure you're not fighting the wrong people... like pilots. Your hinder happened in 05. You can't realistically expect much out anybody considering Gojetss is the only jet airline that is actively hiring in the country. think about that for a second. Union, contract, not a scab ops, proven non-alter ego. Alpa has even admitted to it and has stopped all attempts to fighting it. Other than that you're going to have a hard time getting sympathy out of people in this economy.

The Dude Abides
04-02-2009, 09:36 AM
You can't realistically expect much out anybody considering Gojetss is the only jet airline that is actively hiring in the country. think about that for a second.
Sounds to me like there are a good deal of pilots educated about the situation who aren't willing to wh*re themselves out to fly an RJ.

Foxcow
04-02-2009, 09:45 AM
Oh boy, the usual suspects are here.... nobody is trying to hinder anything. Just to make sure you're not fighting the wrong people... like pilots. Your hinder happened in 05. You can't realistically expect much out anybody considering Gojetss is the only jet airline that is actively hiring in the country. think about that for a second. Union, contract, not a scab ops, proven non-alter ego. Alpa has even admitted to it and has stopped all attempts to fighting it. Other than that you're going to have a hard time getting sympathy out of people in this economy.




I thought you ought to think about what you just said. At a time when no one else is hiring, tens of thousands of qualified pilots on the streets, and your company is the only one hiring (even recruiting from flight schools) just to attempt to fill a class or two.



Can we please stay on topic?

BURflyer
04-02-2009, 09:48 AM
Sounds to me like there are a good deal of pilots educated about the situation who aren't willing to wh*re themselves out to fly an RJ.

That's the thing, there is no situation. There's also a double standard.

BURflyer
04-02-2009, 09:51 AM
I thought you ought to think about what you just said. At a time when no one else is hiring, tens of thousands of qualified pilots on the streets, and your company is the only one hiring (even recruiting from flight schools) just to attempt to fill a class or two.



Can we please stay on topic?

I don't know what you're trying to say. They have no problem recruiting they have way more than they can handle. And it's for growth. What I see as a big problem is if the economy picks up gain you can be sure those guys with a lot of experience will move on as quick as they can and there's a lot of them now. For many, Gojetsss is a downgrade.

ExperimentalAB
04-02-2009, 09:53 AM
And now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Positive_Rate
04-02-2009, 10:30 AM
You're right guy, every Thursday we meet at the airport Hilton to discuss how we're going to take over TSA. Nice to know that your attitude hasn't chanced, how do you expect to have a single list?


You mean you meet on the Hilton shuttle because you guys still don't park with the rest of the employees at STL? Why is that, I wonder?

Copperhed51
04-02-2009, 11:45 AM
The problem happened in 2005

The only part of your post that has any merit.

Herbie
04-02-2009, 11:48 AM
I don't know what you're trying to say. They have no problem recruiting they have way more than they can handle. And it's for growth. What I see as a big problem is if the economy picks up gain you can be sure those guys with a lot of experience will move on as quick as they can and there's a lot of them now. For many, Gojetsss is a downgrade.

You know, what does it say when you are one of about 2 or 3 people on here that defend the choice to go and work for GoJet. What does it say that you even have to to defend your choice to go there. You don't hear anybody at Comair, or Express Jet or ASA have to defend their choice to go there. What does that tell you. I've never had to defend my choice to go to TSA to anybody. Say what you want, GoJet is the plight of the TSA pilot group right now.

You're absoltly right, pilots fighting pilots is never going to work, but when someone with knowledge that has bashed said airline when he worked for TSA goes to said airline, what kind of reception do you expect, especially when you tell all of us Waterskier's how stupid we are. Maybe for sticking around as long as we have. But we are in a fight to improve our QOL right now and trying to set the bar higher for others in the industry all while the crew on the other side of the hall undermines that by taking jobs to essentially fill our vacancy. You want support or an open ear, start a thread for GoJet guys and quit preaching your drull babble here, it is for Waterskiers that have an interest in standing up for OUR cause.

That being said, the conference call was very informative and I look forward to more as we progress further down the road to being released to self help. It will be very interesting to see how things progress in the coming weeks. I am only sad that I will not be around to see the end result. But you can bet me and the other furloughed guys will be lending all of the support that we can.

undflyboy06
04-02-2009, 01:31 PM
OMG, this thread was doing so well until it was SIDE TRACKED AGAIN!:mad:

This thread pertains to TSA contract negotiations. If anyone has an opinion or an argument about TSA and Go Jets I suggest that you start another thread, along with the million other threads that discuss the same topic.

shadyops
04-02-2009, 01:32 PM
double post................

shadyops
04-02-2009, 01:33 PM
I don't know what you're trying to say. They have no problem recruiting they have way more than they can handle. And it's for growth. What I see as a big problem is if the economy picks up gain you can be sure those guys with a lot of experience will move on as quick as they can and there's a lot of them now. For many, Gojetsss is a downgrade.


GOJET is a downgrade for ALL pilots. Management is siphoning flying from TSA to GOJET at the cost of the TSA pilot group. No one cares what ALPA thinks, or what GOJET pilots think; it is alter-ego and anyone who flies for them instantly loses respect and should be ashamed of themselves.

JayHub
04-02-2009, 03:40 PM
GOJET is a downgrade for ALL pilots. Management is siphoning flying from TSA to GOJET at the cost of the TSA pilot group. No one cares what ALPA thinks, or what GOJET pilots think; it is alter-ego and anyone who flies for them instantly loses respect and should be ashamed of themselves.

Well Said.

Just like in '05 they're furloughing us and hiring over on the dark side. It makes me sick. Even a few of my classmates went over. They obviously didn't have the minerals to be a true waterskier. Other pilots can walk around with some sense of pride but a Gojetter has to hide his name tag, park his car half a mile from other airline crews and hope to God he can get through a 4 day without getting heckled...but its ok coz its so shiny, i dont care what people think....i love telling chicks in the bar that im a pilot:cool:.

Quite frankly we need to be released to self help asap. If not, i fear that our flying will be transfered little by little leaving us with nothing to bargain with.

bidnez
04-02-2009, 03:51 PM
Just curious, how many of the Waterski guys on here have been there for less than 5 years? If so, you accepted one of the worse contracts and pay in the regional industry. Now, isn't that hurting your cause to stand up for better work rules and pay?

It's obvious that your fight against GoJet has failed. The NMB ruled in favor of GoJet. Your attempt to stop pilots from applying with GoJet has failed, if you don't believe it- send your resume and so how long it takes to get a reply (don't hold your breath).

And to top it off you are creating animosity between the Transstates pilots and the rest of the industry. Your bashing a lot of guys from Midway, United, ATA etc... thus hurting your cause.

You really need to direct your aggression to management; a focal point that might actually work for you guys. You have created a hostile work environment for yourselves- enjoy!

Let's air out some facts; GoJet was going to be created with or without the approval from the Transstates pilot group. It was the ONLY way around the American Scope- and the only way into the 50+ seat market. In case you didn't notice, the 50 seat market is going away.... and with it, Transstates. You created this monster yourself- I have NO sympathy.

aviator4hire
04-02-2009, 05:35 PM
I'll bet that in 24 to 48 hours (give or take a few hours) this thread will get closed due to the gojet/TSA bashing.... Any takers? If you guys want to keep this thread alive, I recommend staying on topic.

IC ALL
04-02-2009, 05:40 PM
Mod note:

I wouldn't take that bet, but I would suggest it would be wise to keep the discussion civil and respectful. Thanks.

Copperhed51
04-02-2009, 06:20 PM
1) Just curious, how many of the Waterski guys on here have been there for less than 5 years? If so, you accepted one of the worse contracts and pay in the regional industry. Now, isn't that hurting your cause to stand up for better work rules and pay?

2) It's obvious that your fight against GoJet has failed. The NMB ruled in favor of GoJet. Your attempt to stop pilots from applying with GoJet has failed, if you don't believe it- send your resume and so how long it takes to get a reply (don't hold your breath).

3) And to top it off you are creating animosity between the Transstates pilots and the rest of the industry. Your bashing a lot of guys from Midway, United, ATA etc... thus hurting your cause.

4) Let's air out some facts; GoJet was going to be created with or without the approval from the Transstates pilot group. It was the ONLY way around the American Scope- and the only way into the 50+ seat market. In case you didn't notice, the 50 seat market is going away.... and with it, Transstates. You created this monster yourself- I have NO sympathy.

1) I imagine a lot of the guys here were at TSA less than 5 years, myself included. The problem with GJ is not the bad contract, it's the alter-ego part of it. We (I realize I wasn't there for the fight but I'm saying "we" anyway) fought in 05 and lost thanks in large part to those willing to go to GJ. Maybe some of us are of the mindset that we can get to a place and help to change it for the better and I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as the place you're going is well respected and not an alter-ego or scab operation. Additionally, when many of us got to TSA, our contract was already amendable, making the chance of helping a real possibility.

2) I went over how ridiculous the "you lost before so stop trying now" argument is in the previous thread that was closed. Why would anybody tell us to give up?

3) I'm bashing guys that go to GoJetS. It makes no difference where they were before. Many of the older guys at the majors are in large part responsible for giving up mainline flying to the regionals anyway. Now that they're furloughed, they think they're entitled to have that flying back and they should be exempt from judgment after going to GJ. That's not gonna happen. That's way worse than the cluless kid with a wet commercial going to GJ.

4) Yeah, GJ was probably going to be created no matter what. The question is whether it should have been staffed with Trans States pilots that wanted the flying at fair wages under a fair contract. All they had to do was create a separate carrier under one seniority list. Check out Republic, Shuttle, Chautauqua for an example of how this is done.

We're aware the 50 seat market is disappearing. We wanted the 70 seat flying but management weasled its way around our scope clause. Just becuase their boat floated in the court of law doesn't mean it should automatically float in the court of public opinion. You coming on here and telling us you have no sympathy and it's all our faults is exciting and all, but your arguments seem to lack the depth required to understand any of this situation.

bidnez
04-02-2009, 07:26 PM
No, by going to Transstates you are condoning one of the worse contracts in the industry- you are naive if you think otherwise, or just plain lying. Well, the contract has been 'amendable' since 2000 obviously going nowhere since then. You didn't really think that by going there you could 'help out'.... LAUGH!!!!!!!

Scabs? Alter-Ego? As I stated before, and you conceded to; GoJet was going to be created REGARDLESS. It's purpose was to get around the American scope, not Transstates. Which, sorry- doesn't make them scabs or an Alter-Ego.

Blaming mainline guys isn't helping your case either.... kiddo.

bidnez
04-02-2009, 07:30 PM
Mod note:

I wouldn't take that bet, but I would suggest it would be wise to keep the discussion civil and respectful. Thanks.

Calling another pilot group 'scabs' is hardly respectable... especially when they aren't.

flynavyj
04-02-2009, 08:08 PM
neither is calling another poster "Kiddo", get off the high horse, and go get your flying back from us regionals. please.

Copperhed51
04-02-2009, 08:19 PM
No, by going to Transstates you are condoning one of the worse contracts in the industry- you are naive if you think otherwise, or just plain lying. Well, the contract has been 'amendable' since 2000 obviously going nowhere since then. You didn't really think that by going there you could 'help out'.... LAUGH!!!!!!!

Scabs? Alter-Ego? As I stated before, and you conceded to; GoJet was going to be created REGARDLESS. It's purpose was to get around the American scope, not Transstates. Which, sorry- doesn't make them scabs or an Alter-Ego.

Blaming mainline guys isn't helping your case either.... kiddo.

By supporting GJ, your are condoning the operation that helped keep our contract the way it is. If you read the beginning of this thread, you'll see that the contract negotiations are in fact going somewhere. That's why this thread was created in the first place...as an update to what's happening. Things are coming to a head and the with a little luck, the pilot group may prevail, who knows. And yes I do think I can help. Sorry if that bothers you. You obviously don't think you can help so you're trying to do the opposite...seems productive. Also, way to ignore what I said about GJ being created similar to the way Republic did it. There is a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things. I'm not sure you're grasping that point.

By the way, it's "worst" not "worse".


Calling another pilot group 'scabs' is hardly respectable... especially when they aren't.


I didn't call the GJ pilots scabs. I was just saying a scab operation is not acceptable to go to. Calm down.

undflyboy06
04-02-2009, 08:31 PM
I vote the thread to be closed. It has lost it's purpose and now it's open to the same old bashing *rap. TAKE IT TO A DIFFERENT THREAD EVERYONE :mad:

BURflyer
04-02-2009, 09:03 PM
By supporting GJ, your are condoning the operation that helped keep our contract the way it is. If you read the beginning of this thread, you'll see that the contract negotiations are in fact going somewhere. That's why this thread was created in the first place...as an update to what's happening. Things are coming to a head and the with a little luck, the pilot group may prevail, who knows. And yes I do think I can help. Sorry if that bothers you. You obviously don't think you can help so you're trying to do the opposite...seems productive. Also, way to ignore what I said about GJ being created similar to the way Republic did it. There is a right way to do things and a wrong way to do things. I'm not sure you're grasping that point.

By the way, it's "worst" not "worse".





I didn't call the GJ pilots scabs. I was just saying a scab operation is not acceptable to go to. Calm down.

Copperhead, I see that you are a furloughed TSA pilot that has found refuge at Great Lakes? Have you applied to GojetSSS?

BURflyer
04-02-2009, 09:09 PM
No one cares what ALPA thinks, or what GOJET pilots think; it is alter-ego and anyone who flies for them instantly loses respect and should be ashamed of themselves.

Oh ok well in order to make idiotic claims you have to back them up with facts. Again you can't just label something that isn't so. Like alter ego and pseudoscab. Do you know what an alter ego is and did alpa or a court of law confirm that gojetsss is an alter ego? Do you know what a scab is and has alpa or a court of law determined that GOjet flying is struck work? All this anger that cause people to make up their own labels could be used for something else.

All the GJ pilots in 2008/9 are no different than any other pilot looking for a job. It's like calling 2009 Southwest pilots SCABS or alterego union busting pilots for flying for a bottom feeding airline that put so many airlines out of business in the 70s and 80s.. Yes it make just as much sense in labeling current Gojet pilots since they have done none of those. it's in the past. Those guys in 05 truly did intend on stepping on other pilot's backs because it was all for seniority and they had a job at TSA. Now it's a completely different ballgame. I realize that this is an internet forum and it's not always going to be civil but come on.

flynavyj
04-02-2009, 09:29 PM
BUR, you can easily be affected by something that happened before your time, it'd be progress vs. back tracking. We're not trying to reinvent the wheel here, however, most pilots at TSA would like to see this place in better shape than when they arrived. Some came for a quick upgrade, quick type rating, etc. I was lucky enough to get here before people started seeing upgrades just over the horizon, but won't be here when a contract is finally reached. Truth is, there's no shame in attempting to improve a situation (for the current TSA pilots, and the future ones) along with raising the bar for the industry.

If TSA goes the wayside, you can bet that the hulas' cronies will be turning their punching bag on gojet. They may not create another airline to fly larger airplanes (I can't see the point, passed a whipsaw) but i wouldn't start expecting you guys to become the next top tier regional either, nor expect the animosity to cease. In fact, if gojet effectively helps put an end to Trans States, then the "friendship" that gojet so quickly receives on this internet board might spread even further.

Positive_Rate
04-02-2009, 09:35 PM
Guys...we've got to stop feeding these trolls. They come on here looking to rile up stuff by saying these ridiculous statements and wanting us to respond to them. I say we all just ignore people like BUR and bidnez... now I'm just a guilty as the next guy for feeding these things, and I'm going to try to stop, they're probably getting some sick pleasure out of saying this stuff and seeing our responses...toolbags.

flynavyj
04-02-2009, 09:53 PM
honestly, i doubt anyone will change their mind about what's being said.

Back on topic, anything else important been discussed? I've been away for a few days.

undflyboy06
04-02-2009, 09:58 PM
Stoped by the strike center today and heard some interesting news. I don't want to get everyone ridled up, but heard the possibility that DC will run for Capt. Rep for STL. If that's the case, you can count all the hard work for the past couple of years good bye. The FO Rep in STL is also open, but they are mostly concerned about the Capt. position.

flynavyj
04-02-2009, 10:05 PM
I'd only get scared if DC got voted in....with as much as his name is in the yoke cap, i can imagine that won't happen.

Copperhed51
04-02-2009, 10:13 PM
Hmm, I know two DC's. Is this one the yeller or the other one?

undflyboy06
04-02-2009, 10:15 PM
Hmm, I know two DC's. Is this one the yeller or the other one?

He used to be in the training department.

undflyboy06
04-02-2009, 10:22 PM
I'd only get scared if DC got voted in....with as much as his name is in the yoke cap, i can imagine that won't happen.

The only problem I see is the fact that our voter turnout hasn't been the best lately. Also, consider the number of senior captains in STL that might not want to strike due to them retiring in a few years. I know he might not get a lot of votes, but more people are going to have to voice their opinion and vote when the time comes so the pilot group can stay the course.

It sucks that you canít vote if your furloughed :(

bidnez
04-02-2009, 10:23 PM
Fine, compare the creation of GJ with Republic, Shuttle, Chautauqua. The difference? The pilot groups were not mislead by the DM himself, capture the flying and then negotiate the contract- that is the only way it could have been handled with TSH.

Be a realist, TSA has basically been a bottom-feeding airline since Hulas took over. That will never change. Sure, work to get the best you can; but don't really expect too much.

So, what has any GJ pilot done to hurt the TSA pilots? Nothing, you have hurt yourselves and are trying to find a scapegoat. In the process, your support group is rapidly shrinking.

250 or point 65
04-02-2009, 10:30 PM
We just have to make sure the word is spread that DC is trying to worm his mgmt friendly attitude into the union positions. Someone will have to run against him and there needs to be a word of mouth campaign for whoever the other guy is.

Foxcow
04-02-2009, 10:31 PM
He used to be in the training department.

They both were in the training department

-He is the DC that does not have enough seniority to remain in STL but does somehow...
-He is most likely still being paid as a captain...
-When our American flying was still pretty substantial, crew planning built him a special line so he did not have to bid. Now he gets basically all of the charter flights.

Foxcow
04-02-2009, 10:37 PM
Also, consider the number of senior captains in STL that might not want to strike due to them retiring in a few years.



I am pretty sure that those guys are the fat, drunk, loud guy on the subway; the very vocal and vastly outnumbered minority. When we get our strike authorization vote, I would be one month of my crummy pay that it will be a big FU to management. I have flown and spoken with a lot of Sr guys that were just insulted as the junior guys by the bridge proposal. One of them is the dude you spent the afternoon with (thanks again) :D.

TBucket
04-02-2009, 11:29 PM
I'd only get scared if DC got voted in....with as much as his name is in the yoke cap, i can imagine that won't happen.

Yeah, I'll vote for DC as a rep right after I vote in MW as the new MEC...

pause
04-03-2009, 05:29 AM
Why not have the negotiating committee throw this on the table......

2355 S Ocean Boulevard, Highland Beach, Florida | BlockShopper South Florida (http://southflorida.blockshopper.com/property/24434628090000010/2355_s_ocean_boulevard/)


Airline owner buys 6BD in Highland Beach for $7M | BlockShopper South Florida (http://southflorida.blockshopper.com/news/story/199490/)

skippy
04-03-2009, 05:39 AM
and to think i helped pay for that house for 9 safe years.

priceless

flyinaway411
04-03-2009, 05:57 AM
Why not have the negotiating committee throw this on the table......

2355 S Ocean Boulevard, Highland Beach, Florida | BlockShopper South Florida (http://southflorida.blockshopper.com/property/24434628090000010/2355_s_ocean_boulevard/)


Airline owner buys 6BD in Highland Beach for $7M | BlockShopper South Florida (http://southflorida.blockshopper.com/news/story/199490/)


thats posted in the strike center...so im sure its been thrown out there.

bryris
04-03-2009, 07:05 AM
thats posted in the strike center...so im sure its been thrown out there.

If you all want to afford that house someday, better to get on the controllING side of the business fence rather than the controllED side.

Herbie
04-03-2009, 07:46 AM
Makes me wish the lav had an airnorne dump feature when we were on the HILEY2 into Miami. The fun we could have had. :D

elcid79
04-03-2009, 09:21 PM
Fine, compare the creation of GJ with Republic, Shuttle, Chautauqua. The difference? The pilot groups were not mislead by the DM himself, capture the flying and then negotiate the contract- that is the only way it could have been handled with TSH.

Be a realist, TSA has basically been a bottom-feeding airline since Hulas took over. That will never change. Sure, work to get the best you can; but don't really expect too much.

So, what has any GJ pilot done to hurt the TSA pilots? Nothing, you have hurt yourselves and are trying to find a scapegoat. In the process, your support group is rapidly shrinking.



Someone is trying to hijack our thread. haha
Shoo you, your not welcome here...

CaptainCarl
04-04-2009, 08:46 AM
I just wanted to know what the All Call was about. If I wanted to talk about GoJet, I'd venture over to the GoJet thread or use the search bar.

Anybody know if they are going to post the recording? And are negotiations stagnant now? If they are, what's the next step in the process? Are we waiting for the NMB to become 2 to 1 in our favor? Or has that already happened? When will the mediator decide we have reached an impass?

250 or point 65
04-04-2009, 08:59 AM
I dont know if they are going to post the recording, but whenever you logged on, the at&t lady said that it was being recorded.

Negotiations are pretty stagnant...as always. The company is really not budging, and it seemed like the negotiating committee moved slightly towards the company on a few minor issues ... basically so the mediator would see that they were trying to negotiate and the company wasnt. On those issues, the company went further away from the center in their response. The union suspected that it may have been a move to stoke the mediator towards recommending us for self help. They need a contract just as badly as we do, but I also think that they are underestimating how unified our union actually is.

We are in fact waiting on the woman nominated for the NMB position to be confirmed. Please write your congressmen to insure a speedy nomination. The union believed that this may happen in May or June. Assuming that Pinnacle gets released first, that puts our release date somewhere in June-July.

I think the mediator is already pretty fed up and will recommend us when the NMB seat changes. At this time, its the only power we have at the table.



Guys, if we don't get some sort of job protection written in that contract, TSA is just going to burn slowly. So its our choice, take the very small risk (TSA still makes money and Hulas is a business man) of it burning down quickly and get job protection, or roll over and let it burn down slowly.

Positive_Rate
04-04-2009, 05:52 PM
^


What he said.

elcid79
04-04-2009, 08:16 PM
Yuppers... Everyone should grow a Unity Stash... haha

250 or point 65
04-04-2009, 08:39 PM
already got the furlough beard in full effect!

JayHub
04-07-2009, 09:13 PM
Any news, updates?

Purpleanga
04-08-2009, 10:23 AM
They better do something quick or they're not going to have people to even man the strike center. What is the morale like for those that are still flying? By the way is everyone furloughed still having trouble accessing the employee site?

undflyboy06
04-08-2009, 10:29 AM
I haven't been able to get on the employee website since a week or two after my furlough. I can still get on CrewTrac though.

Purpleanga
04-08-2009, 10:34 AM
I'm sure IT knows by now, it's great that they care. It's only company info, not really usefull for us furloughed.:rolleyes:

TBucket
04-08-2009, 12:07 PM
Morale? What's that? I don't think we have any...

I'm still here, and I can't get on crewtrac most of the time...

Oh, and had a trip drop request denied yesterday due to "lack of reserves"...

Positive_Rate
04-08-2009, 04:07 PM
Oh, and had a trip drop request denied yesterday due to "lack of reserves"...


Meanwhile we had 4 (FOUR) FOs sitting in the crewroom in RIC today...none of them flew.

peterpower
04-09-2009, 12:23 PM
You know, what does it say when you are one of about 2 or 3 people on here that defend the choice to go and work for GoJet. What does it say that you even have to to defend your choice to go there. You don't hear anybody at Comair, or Express Jet or ASA have to defend their choice to go there. What does that tell you. I've never had to defend my choice to go to TSA to anybody. Say what you want, GoJet is the plight of the TSA pilot group right now.

You're absoltly right, pilots fighting pilots is never going to work, but when someone with knowledge that has bashed said airline when he worked for TSA goes to said airline, what kind of reception do you expect, especially when you tell all of us Waterskier's how stupid we are. Maybe for sticking around as long as we have. But we are in a fight to improve our QOL right now and trying to set the bar higher for others in the industry all while the crew on the other side of the hall undermines that by taking jobs to essentially fill our vacancy. You want support or an open ear, start a thread for GoJet guys and quit preaching your drull babble here, it is for Waterskiers that have an interest in standing up for OUR cause.

That being said, the conference call was very informative and I look forward to more as we progress further down the road to being released to self help. It will be very interesting to see how things progress in the coming weeks. I am only sad that I will not be around to see the end result. But you can bet me and the other furloughed guys will be lending all of the support that we can.

You know what, I DID do the right thing. I went to a "quality" airline, I worked for Comair, and got furloughed. Now, there are no jobs out there, so when I am offered an interview, and subsequently a job at Gojets, does that mean I am an offender? Does that mean I don't support your fight for better wages? Get real, I want everyone who is a pilot in this crazy career we all have CHOOSEN to be in to be paid what they are really worth. But in the meantime, while I try to support you and the many other pilot groups fighting for better QOL, I have banks breathing down my neck, so I have to work.
If I don't fly, while I wait for the so called "right" airline to work for, I lose. I won't be current by that time, not to mention NO ONE ELSE IS HIRING!!
ANY pilot, who looks down on another pilot, for taking a flying job in this type of economy, is simply an ignorant arse. When you come and pay MY bills....then I will reconsider my choices in who to work for, AND line up on on ANY street and hold a picket sign with you. Until then all you haters, need to stop hating your fellow pilots, and focus your energy on the bean counters that really make your QOL crap.

250 or point 65
04-09-2009, 12:46 PM
Last week called, they want their post back.

This thread is for the discussion of Trans States AIRLINES negotiations...not about Trans States HOLDINGS. Go somewhere else with your rationalizations.

rjjunkie
04-09-2009, 02:40 PM
You know what, I DID do the right thing. I went to a "quality" airline, I worked for Comair, and got furloughed. Now, there are no jobs out there, so when I am offered an interview, and subsequently a job at Gojets, does that mean I am an offender? Does that mean I don't support your fight for better wages? Get real, I want everyone who is a pilot in this crazy career we all have CHOOSEN to be in to be paid what they are really worth. But in the meantime, while I try to support you and the many other pilot groups fighting for better QOL, I have banks breathing down my neck, so I have to work.
If I don't fly, while I wait for the so called "right" airline to work for, I lose. I won't be current by that time, not to mention NO ONE ELSE IS HIRING!!
ANY pilot, who looks down on another pilot, for taking a flying job in this type of economy, is simply an ignorant arse. When you come and pay MY bills....then I will reconsider my choices in who to work for, AND line up on on ANY street and hold a picket sign with you. Until then all you haters, need to stop hating your fellow pilots, and focus your energy on the bean counters that really make your QOL crap.
all you're gonna do is put someone else on a couch... and you get a big "black" mark on your career called " Ga_ - lindbergh. " you fill in the blank and enjoy...

P56C
04-09-2009, 03:09 PM
You know what, I DID do the right thing. I went to a "quality" airline, I worked for Comair, and got furloughed. Now, there are no jobs out there, so when I am offered an interview, and subsequently a job at Gojets, does that mean I am an offender? Does that mean I don't support your fight for better wages? Get real, I want everyone who is a pilot in this crazy career we all have CHOOSEN to be in to be paid what they are really worth. But in the meantime, while I try to support you and the many other pilot groups fighting for better QOL, I have banks breathing down my neck, so I have to work.
If I don't fly, while I wait for the so called "right" airline to work for, I lose. I won't be current by that time, not to mention NO ONE ELSE IS HIRING!!
ANY pilot, who looks down on another pilot, for taking a flying job in this type of economy, is simply an ignorant arse. When you come and pay MY bills....then I will reconsider my choices in who to work for, AND line up on on ANY street and hold a picket sign with you. Until then all you haters, need to stop hating your fellow pilots, and focus your energy on the bean counters that really make your QOL crap.

You're all the same. Unbelievable!

pause
04-09-2009, 03:10 PM
all you're gonna do is put someone else on a couch... and you get a big "black" mark on your career called " Ga_ - lindbergh. " you fill in the blank and enjoy...


...and yet you and others somehow classify yourselves as grown-ups. Keep throwing the mud pies out in the sandbox. This is one of the many reasons why you are treated like chidren. Because you ACT like chidren. Good luck. The two ATA and one Midwest pilots I flew with this week strongly disagree with your statement. They more than likely have more flight time inside the marker than you do total time but keep acting like chidren. It's worked out so good for you so far.

BURflyer
04-09-2009, 03:43 PM
You're all the same. Unbelievable!



What do you mean by you're all the same? We are not all the same the original 05 guys are not the same as us for leaving their job at TSA for higher seniority. The rest of us are out of work pilots working at a regional no different then any other. Yea the seniority list was created in a shady manner, although there was never a strike and it could have been like RAH, but there is nothing anyone can do about it, especially in 09 can we? Is anyone not going to CAL because they have scabs working at that airline. How about people not going to Southwest because they used to be a bottom feeder that put so many airlines out of business? This is a cutthroat business, keep the childish insults going, see how far they'll get you.

250 or point 65
04-09-2009, 03:48 PM
GO AWAY, this thread is about TSA contract negotiations.

TexasAggie
04-09-2009, 03:48 PM
There is about to be a wave of military pilots looking for jobs and they will settle for a regional gig until the legacy carriers start hiring. They will go with whoever is hiring and they will not give a damn about your conflict or who they put out of work.

If you need a job flying, go spend some time in Iraq or Afghanistan and earn your needed cash. Can't wait to see the insults thrown at these guys when they show up at GoJet.

CaptainCarl
04-09-2009, 04:18 PM
Dog eat dog. Kill or be killed. It seems like everything in this world is cut-throat. :( Well, if that's how it's gonna be I better start sharpening my blade...

P56C
04-09-2009, 04:24 PM
What do you mean by you're all the same? We are not all the same the original 05 guys are not the same as us for leaving their job at TSA for higher seniority. The rest of us are out of work pilots working at a regional no different then any other. Yea the seniority list was created in a shady manner, although there was never a strike and it could have been like RAH, but there is nothing anyone can do about it, especially in 09 can we? Is anyone not going to CAL because they have scabs working at that airline. How about people not going to Southwest because they used to be a bottom feeder that put so many airlines out of business? This is a cutthroat business, keep the childish insults going, see how far they'll get you.

You guys get so defensive. Doesn't that tell you something?

BTW...what happened to you? :confused:

Gojet SUCKS and you'll be a scab forever.

Yea you're right ankflygy, let everyman be for themselves and stab your neighbor in the back. I'm sure that's the best way to the top and the way to gain what we as pilots need. If it wasn't for your union, if you're a pilot that is, then you'd be begging for time off and would need permission to go home, douche..

Then this...

This is a cutthroat business, keep the childish insults going, see how far they'll get you.

Not being childish. Just trying to understand your kind.

BURflyer
04-09-2009, 04:36 PM
You guys get so defensive. Doesn't that tell you something?
d.

Well what would you do if someone keeps saying the world is flat? It's more educating the ignorant. By the way, are you some kind of internet stalker I can't even find what you put up there....

250 or point 65
04-09-2009, 04:38 PM
Wow, you really are brainwashed, can't even remember what happened before you went to the darkside.

BURflyer
04-09-2009, 04:38 PM
There is about to be a wave of military pilots looking for jobs and they will settle for a regional gig until the legacy carriers start hiring. They will go with whoever is hiring and they will not give a damn about your conflict or who they put out of work.

If you need a job flying, go spend some time in Iraq or Afghanistan and earn your needed cash. Can't wait to see the insults thrown at these guys when they show up at GoJet.

I've yet to have anyone "insult" me in the real world. I did have a talk once with one AA captain but he didn't know the whole story, they assumed were were scabs or something.

P56C
04-09-2009, 04:42 PM
Well what would you do if someone keeps saying the world is flat? It's more educating the ignorant. By the way, are you some kind of internet stalker I can't even find what you put up there....

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/26463-gojet-21.html#post390743

Post #204 and #210.

Grow a pair dude!

250 or point 65
04-09-2009, 04:44 PM
So come June-July when we strike and our SPC publishes our scheduled flights and routes. Scheduling is going to call you to fly my flight. What are you gonna do?

(lets bring this back to our contract negotiations and strike possibilities)

Pilotpip
04-09-2009, 05:54 PM
I've yet to have anyone "insult" me in the real world. I did have a talk once with one AA captain but he didn't know the whole story, they assumed were were scabs or something.

Start wearing your badge outside your coat and stop using United bagtags and you'll be a little easier to see scampering through the shadows and sneaking on our aircraft.

Of course I've seen few GJ pilots with the courage to look me in the eye in the terminal. What does that tell you?

pause
04-09-2009, 06:01 PM
Start wearing your badge outside your coat and stop using United bagtags and you'll be a little easier to see scampering through the shadows and sneaking on our aircraft.

Of course I've seen few GJ pilots with the courage to look me in the eye in the terminal. What does that tell you?

Hard to look you in the eye when your head is up your ***. :D

P56C
04-09-2009, 06:10 PM
Of course I've seen few GJ pilots with the courage to look me in the eye in the terminal. What does that tell you?

As rare as an one legged striper or a blind airline pilot. :p

250 or point 65
04-09-2009, 06:16 PM
C'mon guy, before you get this thread shut down, I want this question answered NOW.


So come June-July when we strike and our SPC publishes our scheduled flights and routes. Scheduling is going to call you to fly my flight. What are you gonna do?

145mule
04-09-2009, 06:54 PM
Hey Guys, go start another thread if you want to keep justifying your decision to work at GoJet.

rjjunkie
04-09-2009, 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjjunkie
all you're gonna do is put someone else on a couch... and you get a big "black" mark on your career called " Ga_ - lindbergh. " you fill in the blank and enjoy...

rjjunkie
04-09-2009, 07:15 PM
...and yet you and others somehow classify yourselves as grown-ups. Keep throwing the mud pies out in the sandbox. This is one of the many reasons why you are treated like chidren. Because you ACT like chidren. Good luck. The two ATA and one Midwest pilots I flew with this week strongly disagree with your statement. They more than likely have more flight time inside the marker than you do total time but keep acting like chidren. It's worked out so good for you so far.

yeah thank god you have them to stand behind in your justification for existence.

Copperhed51
04-09-2009, 07:25 PM
C'mon guy, before you get this thread shut down, I want this question answered NOW.


So come June-July when we strike and our SPC publishes our scheduled flights and routes. Scheduling is going to call you to fly my flight. What are you gonna do?

I think it was BURflyer who in an earlier thread said that it only counts as flying struck work if they do it in an EMB-145.

I love how Pause's justification for GoJet being ok is that other old pilots are going there. Somehow that is evidence that everything is ok. Forget arguing any of the valid points on either side, just use old pilots as your evidence. Lame.

250 or point 65
04-09-2009, 07:27 PM
So come June-July when we strike and our SPC publishes our scheduled flights and routes. Scheduling is going to call you to fly my flight. What are you gonna do?

BUR? Anyone?

skippy
04-09-2009, 07:33 PM
who says you have to find a job in aviation-- go become a manager somewhere- i freaking applied for a personal banker position at bank of america it only pays about 36K, but the luster of only unemployment and playing KILLZONE online on PS3 so much i get finger cramps is slowly losing it's charm.

grow a pair-- so i ask is 36K a year better than 23/hr as a fo for a POS company?

SKIPPY

and if you see skippy737 on killzone-- lob a grenade at me--and face me like a man and quit cloaking right behind me with the shotgun- thats wussy playing

145mule
04-09-2009, 07:39 PM
who says you have to find a job in aviation--

THANK YOU!

laserman2431
04-09-2009, 07:49 PM
So come June-July when we strike and our SPC publishes our scheduled flights and routes. Scheduling is going to call you to fly my flight. What are you gonna do?

BUR? Anyone?
Does it make a difference to your decision to walk the line? You're going to have to do what you do then see what happens. I don't think it matters anyway because you guys are not going to walk anywhere other than out to fly your trips as long as they let you.

You'll have to take the walk and see what happens.

laserman2431
04-09-2009, 07:55 PM
GO AWAY, this thread is about TSA contract negotiations.
Ummm. OK. Soooo why aren't you talking about contract negotiations. Is someone stopping you?

250 or point 65
04-09-2009, 08:01 PM
Does it make a difference to your decision to walk the line?

Are you kidding me? TSA pilots are going to walk the line. PERIOD. That is not pending approval from some GoJet pilot. I was just agreeing with him that he is not a scab...yet. When he decides to fly my struck work, he will be.

250 or point 65
04-09-2009, 08:03 PM
Ummm. OK. Soooo why aren't you talking about contract negotiations. Is someone stopping you?

Well when some GJer gets on and says something anti-TSA, then 8 guys gotta hop in and tell him what an idiot he is, its kinda hard to discuss the real topic.

250 or point 65
04-09-2009, 08:04 PM
So come June-July when we strike and our SPC publishes our scheduled flights and routes. Scheduling is going to call you to fly my flight. What are you gonna do?

laserman2431
04-09-2009, 08:07 PM
Start wearing your badge outside your coat and stop using United bagtags and you'll be a little easier to see scampering through the shadows and sneaking on our aircraft.

Of course I've seen few GJ pilots with the courage to look me in the eye in the terminal. What does that tell you?
My badge is on the outside, I don't have a United bagtag and I don't scamper.

If you want to talk to me in terminal, I'll look you in the eye but i won't be taking any shlt from anybody.

I get the feeling you're an internet tough guy.

250 or point 65
04-09-2009, 08:09 PM
well then you're one of the few.

he doesn't want to ever talk to you

laserman2431
04-09-2009, 08:12 PM
well then you're one of the few.

he doesn't want to ever talk to you
Riiiiight.

250 edited his post to remove a statement about pilotpip kicking people off his plane. I guess he said it then got scared and removed it. And, why is 250 talking for pilotpip anyway?

He wants to look in my eyes but he doesn't want to talk? Sounds a little creepy to me.

undflyboy06
04-09-2009, 08:13 PM
What did everyone think about the e-mail that was sent out yesterday about aircraft 845 and all the subsequent incidents involving cabin smoke?

I personally think they should scrap that piece of junk. I know it would mean another plane off the line, but one of these days something is going to happen to that airplane.

Pilotpip
04-09-2009, 08:18 PM
I'll gladly tell you to take a hike when you ask for a jumpseat. Just like the two I have told in the past couple months. Best was the one that didn't come up front and ask for a ride.

Tough guy, no. Tired of seeing you guys make excuses for flying those jets while pilots at the same company are being furloughed, yes.

Man I can't wait to see you guys start crying and whining when Hulie doesn't have waterskiers to screw. That Karma's gonna hit like a freight train. I'll be sure to make sure you guys can see me laughing.

laserman2431
04-09-2009, 08:19 PM
Well when some GJer gets on and says something anti-TSA, then 8 guys gotta hop in and tell him what an idiot he is, its kinda hard to discuss the real topic.
I think there's still plenty of room on the internet for your contact talk. Feel free to post some right now. Why don't you post some ideas about your contract talks. Don't let me stop you.

Shrek
04-09-2009, 08:24 PM
My badge is on the outside, I don't have a United bagtag and I don't scamper.

If you want to talk to me in terminal, I'll look you in the eye but i won't be taking any shlt from anybody.
I get the feeling you're an internet tough guy.

So who is the internet tough guy?

Pilotpip
04-09-2009, 08:24 PM
laserman2431: one more lindburger to ignore. Here, in the terminal, on the plane, in life in general.

undflyboy06
04-09-2009, 08:30 PM
Alright!

Why don't you guys send each other a PM with your cell number, call each other, and to set up a time and place so you can all beat the *hit out of each other.

Then, when all of you are nursing your wounds everyone else can have descent a discussion, without the threads being hijacked about the same old beat around the bush crap.

BACK ON TOPIC!

laserman2431
04-09-2009, 08:37 PM
laserman2431: one more lindburger to ignore. Here, in the terminal, on the plane, in life in general.
I think the real shame is what RAH did to the Midwest guys. I'd like to see you look them in the eye Pilotpip.

laserman2431
04-09-2009, 08:38 PM
Alright!

Why don't you guys send each other a PM with your cell number, call each other, and to set up a time and place so you can all beat the *hit out of each other.

Then, when all of you are nursing your wounds everyone else can have descent a discussion, without the threads being hijacked about the same old beat around the bush crap.

BACK ON TOPIC!
I think the topic was contract negotiations. What's happening on that front? I'm really interested.

laserman2431
04-09-2009, 08:57 PM
I'll gladly tell you to take a hike when you ask for a jumpseat. Just like the two I have told in the past couple months. Best was the one that didn't come up front and ask for a ride.

Tough guy, no. Tired of seeing you guys make excuses for flying those jets while pilots at the same company are being furloughed, yes.


Are you saying it's OK to take another pilot's flying as long as he works for a "different" company? Like the pain inflected on Midwest pilots by RAH pilots?

BURflyer
04-09-2009, 09:41 PM
I'll gladly tell you to take a hike when you ask for a jumpseat. Just like the two I have told in the past couple months. Best was the one that didn't come up front and ask for a ride.

Tough guy, no. Tired of seeing you guys make excuses for flying those jets while pilots at the same company are being furloughed, yes.

Man I can't wait to see you guys start crying and whining when Hulie doesn't have waterskiers to screw. That Karma's gonna hit like a freight train. I'll be sure to make sure you guys can see me laughing.

Another sideline cheerleader that has no business in the fight. What's the matter, you got the cheap ERJ time from Hulas, you stuck it to him by abandoning TSA after a few hundred hours now you're trying to play jumpseat wars from a 3rd party airline? What a coward. You say it like GJ pilots are to blame for all this, we have no control over the past and management and it was all on you guys. I could also say that you are personally placing Midwest pilots out of a job by working at RAH, it would make about as much sense as TSA/GJ... Would that be enough for someone to kick a RAH pilot out of a JS because of an agenda? Talk about Karma. TSA is not furloughing because of GJ. If TSA does strike you can be sure that GJ will not fly struck work.

250 or point 65
04-09-2009, 09:50 PM
So come June-July when we strike and our SPC publishes our scheduled flights and routes. Scheduling is going to call you to fly my flight. What are you gonna do?

BURflyer
04-09-2009, 10:03 PM
So come June-July when we strike and our SPC publishes our scheduled flights and routes. Scheduling is going to call you to fly my flight. What are you gonna do?

Well let's get to that point first. I doubt it's going to happen. Unless Hulas has something planned I don't see the need for them to allow a strike.

250 or point 65
04-09-2009, 10:05 PM
HAHA, "allow" a strike? A pending strike is the only way we'll be able to negotiate. If we don't get to a strike, we're gonna get darn close. You and everyone else better be ready to say no to scheduling.

Basically, "Yeah, I'll fly your flying, but we don't need to worry about that."

laserman2431
04-10-2009, 02:06 AM
HAHA, "allow" a strike? A pending strike is the only way we'll be able to negotiate. If we don't get to a strike, we're gonna get darn close. You and everyone else better be ready to say no to scheduling.

Basically, "Yeah, I'll fly your flying, but we don't need to worry about that."
250 or .65. How many times does it have to be said? If you go on strike, I will NOT cross the picket line. In fact, I'll be walking with you.

I know you don't want to accept that because you can't wait to call someone a scab. I don't think it'll come to that but we'll have to wait untill June or July to find out.

I thought someone here wanted to talk about contract negotiations.

laserman2431
04-10-2009, 04:45 AM
250 or .65, I have a question for you. Do you think TSH management feels bad when they see strife between the TSA and GoJet pilto groups? Or, do you think they like to see the two groups fighting? How would they feel about the two groups working together and supporting each other?

Who is your emeny? Is it;

a) The former, 15 year, Midwest 727 Captain who took one up the tailpipe from Pilotpip and his RAH friends and now works at GoJet because it's the only flying job he can get?

-or-

b) The management team that is making decisions that effect your livelihood?

I support you in your negotiations. When any pilot group improves their contract, it raises the bar for all pilots.

It is a good time to think with you mind and get your feelings under control.

laserman2431
04-10-2009, 05:20 AM
250 or .65. The real problem is the reduction in capacity. The american airlines, Delta, United and Us Airlines cut back. It was due to the recession, fuel prices and seasonal reduction. On the good side, fuel prices have come back down and we are approaching the summer increase. As soon as the economy starts to turn around, the airlines will soar to previous capacity and beyond.

Now, look at how many airlines have gone under during this trough. When we emerge from this recession, the survivor airlines that have the ability to grow will be in a very good position.

I think the best strategy right now is to get as much improvement on the work rules as you can and survive!

The American POW's in Vietnam, who endured the worst treatment of any prisoners of war in US history, developed a policy of "return with honor." When subjected to cruel torture, they all broke at one time or another. They were forced to make statements against their country. As soon as they were able, they resisted as much as they could. The first priority for them was to go home alive. After that, they maintained their honor by resisting as much as they were humanly able.

pause
04-10-2009, 05:45 AM
yeah thank god you have them to stand behind in your justification for existence.

I don't stand behind anyone...I stand beside them.

Your little statement above can be said about you when you took those Eagle planes. As I stated before. Keep acting like a child, it's working out so well for you.

laserman2431
04-10-2009, 05:55 AM
Guys. We've got to quit blaming each other. The TSA pilots couldn't negotiate for airplanes even if they wanted to. The managers are the ones who make those deals.

Didn't someone want to talk about contract negotiations?

shadyops
04-10-2009, 07:50 AM
post deleted..........

250 or point 65
04-10-2009, 08:20 AM
250 or .65, I have a question for you. Do you think TSH management feels bad when they see strife between the TSA and GoJet pilto groups? Or, do you think they like to see the two groups fighting? How would they feel about the two groups working together and supporting each other? We already know how they feel about this. They fired the guys running for your union that were friendly with our union. And your "union" did nothing about it.

Who is your emeny? Is it;

a) The former, 15 year, Midwest 727 Captain who took one up the tailpipe from Pilotpip and his RAH friends and now works at GoJet because it's the only flying job he can get? And its not, Cape was hiring! and the pay is pretty much the same.

-or-

b) The management team that is making decisions that effect your livelihood?

I support you in your negotiations. When any pilot group improves their contract, it raises the bar for all pilots. We agree! Now how much less leverage do we have when GJers roll over and take a bad contract? This comes to mind "Why should we give you a pay raise when GJ is willing to do it for less?"

It is a good time to think with you mind and get your feelings under control.

I have no idea why I'm even justfying this with a response. I'm not irate, calling people scabs and other names. I do think with my head. I think long term. The long term effects are what my mind is worried about.

laserman2431
04-10-2009, 08:56 AM
We agree! Now how much less leverage do we have when GJers roll over and take a bad contract? This comes to mind "Why should we give you a pay raise when GJ is willing to do it for less?This comment is true. The problem is that every pilot group seems to make the same comment about some other group. And, all the major airlines say this about the regionals.

There is probably someone out there who could make the same statement about TSA. It's total BS. You guys are negotiating the best deal you can get. Why would you do less.

We all need to do the best we can. This "blame everyone else" game is counterproductive.

laserman2431
04-10-2009, 09:25 AM
I have no idea why I'm even justfying this with a response. I'm not irate, calling people scabs and other names. I do think with my head. I think long term. The long term effects are what my mind is worried about.
In order to have a long term future, you must have a short term future.

JayHub
04-10-2009, 10:47 AM
In order to have a long term future, you must have a short term future.
Well your short term future is taking food off my table. Ironically your long term future will probably take food off yours.

CaptainCarl
04-10-2009, 06:57 PM
Um... Where is de727ups? Someone should have shut this little shin-dig down a long time ago. I wanted to know about the teleconference and how negotiations were going, that's all. If I wanted to know anything about GoJet I would have used the Search feature. But I don't. I am well versed in the TSA/TSH/GJ pile of FUBAR.

Mods, this thread is way off track. Plus, my homies started a new and improved thread titled "TSA Contract Negotiations." I'll go there for my info. Feel free to lock this one.

laserman2431
04-10-2009, 08:58 PM
Um... Where is de727ups? Someone should have shut this little shin-dig down a long time ago. I wanted to know about the teleconference and how negotiations were going, that's all. If I wanted to know anything about GoJet I would have used the Search feature. But I don't. I am well versed in the TSA/TSH/GJ pile of FUBAR.

Mods, this thread is way off track. Plus, my homies started a new and improved thread titled "TSA Contract Negotiations." I'll go there for my info. Feel free to lock this one.
That new one seems to be stalled. It seems that wheb you guys can't turn it into a bash Gojet thread, you don't have much else to say.

Shrek
04-11-2009, 05:03 AM
That new one seems to be stalled. It seems that wheb you guys can't turn it into a bash Gojet thread, you don't have much else to say.

I think someone at TSA was smarter than the one that started that thread in a public forum. I am sure the info is getting out - just not for everybody to see here....after all, it is Section 6 still.

shadyops
04-11-2009, 05:17 AM
That new one seems to be stalled. It seems that wheb you guys can't turn it into a bash Gojet thread, you don't have much else to say.

Then I guess the GOJET bashings will continue! Can we sticky this thread?

shadyops
04-11-2009, 05:23 AM
If I don't fly, while I wait for the so called "right" airline to work for, I lose. I won't be current by that time, not to mention NO ONE ELSE IS HIRING!!
ANY pilot, who looks down on another pilot, for taking a flying job in this type of economy, is simply an ignorant arse. When you come and pay MY bills....then I will reconsider my choices in who to work for, AND line up on on ANY street and hold a picket sign with you. Until then all you haters, need to stop hating your fellow pilots, and focus your energy on the bean counters that really make your QOL crap.

So someone has to pay your bills to get you to walk a picket line? Ladies and gentlemen what we have here is called the scab mentality just waiting to blossom into a full blown scab!

Xelectro
04-11-2009, 06:06 AM
If I don't fly, while I wait for the so called "right" airline to work for, I lose. I won't be current by that time, not to mention NO ONE ELSE IS HIRING!!
ANY pilot, who looks down on another pilot, for taking a flying job in this type of economy, is simply an ignorant arse. When you come and pay MY bills....then I will reconsider my choices in who to work for, AND line up on on ANY street and hold a picket sign with you. Until then all you haters, need to stop hating your fellow pilots, and focus your energy on the bean counters that really make your QOL crap.

Very well said. I don't understand what makes this industry different from any other. In any other industry if one gets laid off they do anything and everything to find another job in the same field without worrying about anyone else. People do what benefits them first. And I am a strong believer in this phrase "Put your own mask on first and then offer assistance"

Lets take a look at the automotive industry as an example.
GM and 2 other US automakers with their Unions, pension plans good wages and work rules.
And Japaneese car makers which make cars here in the US without any unions, pensions, for much lower wage, and actually are able to post a proffit.
Now does that make one a scab for going to work for Nissan where there is not a union, lower wages, instead of working for GM?
In my opinion GM is a joke for paying peoples pensions to this day when they are loosing billions of dollars.
My point is GOJet is a very lean airline and has a great potential for profitability.
Now if pilots would just opent their eyes a little bit, they would see that GOJet is an airline of the future. 50 seat market has no future. And 50 seat pilots are a dieing breed. So might wanna consider investing into something more long term.

Atreyu
04-11-2009, 06:36 AM
Very well said. I don't understand what makes this industry different from any other. In any other industry if one gets laid off they do anything and everything to find another job in the same field without worrying about anyone else. People do what benefits them first. And I am a strong believer in this phrase "Put your own mask on first and then offer assistance"

Lets take a look at the automotive industry as an example.
GM and 2 other US automakers with their Unions, pension plans good wages and work rules.
And Japaneese car makers which make cars here in the US without any unions, pensions, for much lower wage, and actually are able to post a proffit.
Now does that make one a scab for going to work for Nissan where there is not a union, lower wages, instead of working for GM?
In my opinion GM is a joke for paying peoples pensions to this day when they are loosing billions of dollars.
My point is GOJet is a very lean airline and has a great potential for profitability.
Now if pilots would just opent their eyes a little bit, they would see that GOJet is an airline of the future. 50 seat market has no future. And 50 seat pilots are a dieing breed. So might wanna consider investing into something more long term.
OMG DUDE! You hit this RIGHT ON THE HEAD! Nobody in the airline industry realizes that Nissan was founded by GM automakers to underpay their union work force.

American and Japanese automakers are ALL run by the same management group!!!!!!!!





-I think this is the biggest problem. Everyone chooses to ignore how Go Jet was created, and thinks Go Jet is on par with any other regional in the airline industry.
It's like saying Skywest wants to do regional flying for Southwest, but on the CRJ1000 and wants to pay their pilots 10% less than what the 90 seat pay is now. When SAPA says no and stands up as a union, Skywest opens "GO WEST!" and pilots go there with no one griping about their going to "Go West".

This is just the spiral of failure the airline industry is failing. Next generation of pilots will be fighting for minimum wage while management says "you work for tips!"

shadyops
04-11-2009, 06:38 AM
Very well said. I don't understand what makes this industry different from any other. In any other industry if one gets laid off they do anything and everything to find another job in the same field without worrying about anyone else. People do what benefits them first. And I am a strong believer in this phrase "Put your own mask on first and then offer assistance"

Lets take a look at the automotive industry as an example.
GM and 2 other US automakers with their Unions, pension plans good wages and work rules.
And Japaneese car makers which make cars here in the US without any unions, pensions, for much lower wage, and actually are able to post a proffit.
Now does that make one a scab for going to work for Nissan where there is not a union, lower wages, instead of working for GM?
In my opinion GM is a joke for paying peoples pensions to this day when they are loosing billions of dollars.
My point is GOJet is a very lean airline and has a great potential for profitability.
Now if pilots would just opent their eyes a little bit, they would see that GOJet is an airline of the future. 50 seat market has no future. And 50 seat pilots are a dieing breed. So might wanna consider investing into something more long term.

Going to work for another employer does not make on a scab, but when someone says they will talk a picket line only WHEN someone pays their bills, they are displaying a scab mentality. Your example is out of context. We all agree that you are not a scab until you cross the line, but you can still have a scab mentality when it is all about you paycheck and not who you're screwing over to get it.

Shrek
04-11-2009, 04:22 PM
Very well said. I don't understand what makes this industry different from any other. In any other industry if one gets laid off they do anything and everything to find another job in the same field without worrying about anyone else. People do what benefits them first. And I am a strong believer in this phrase "Put your own mask on first and then offer assistance"

Lets take a look at the automotive industry as an example.
GM and 2 other US automakers with their Unions, pension plans good wages and work rules.
And Japaneese car makers which make cars here in the US without any unions, pensions, for much lower wage, and actually are able to post a proffit.
Now does that make one a scab for going to work for Nissan where there is not a union, lower wages, instead of working for GM?
In my opinion GM is a joke for paying peoples pensions to this day when they are loosing billions of dollars.
My point is GOJet is a very lean airline and has a great potential for profitability.
Now if pilots would just opent their eyes a little bit, they would see that GOJet is an airline of the future. 50 seat market has no future. And 50 seat pilots are a dieing breed. So might wanna consider investing into something more long term.

You too GoJet pilot.

Section 6 will run out eventually......tic toc.

Foxcow
04-11-2009, 04:43 PM
My point is GOJet is a very lean airline and has a great potential for profitability.



It ought to be lean if another airline is shouldering the debt/financing for your expansion and is profitable enough to say "thats ok gojets, we'll see if you're profitable next quarter. Here is some more money."

newarkblows
04-11-2009, 05:49 PM
Very well said. I don't understand what makes this industry different from any other. In any other industry if one gets laid off they do anything and everything to find another job in the same field without worrying about anyone else. People do what benefits them first. And I am a strong believer in this phrase "Put your own mask on first and then offer assistance"

Lets take a look at the automotive industry as an example.
GM and 2 other US automakers with their Unions, pension plans good wages and work rules.
And Japaneese car makers which make cars here in the US without any unions, pensions, for much lower wage, and actually are able to post a proffit.
Now does that make one a scab for going to work for Nissan where there is not a union, lower wages, instead of working for GM?
In my opinion GM is a joke for paying peoples pensions to this day when they are loosing billions of dollars.
My point is GOJet is a very lean airline and has a great potential for profitability.
Now if pilots would just opent their eyes a little bit, they would see that GOJet is an airline of the future. 50 seat market has no future. And 50 seat pilots are a dieing breed. So might wanna consider investing into something more long term.

this guy gets laughed at on our own forums too.... he just doesnt get it. This ME ME ME mentality is the most shortsighted, moronic, non-sensical BS,....

Keep justifying your decisions by bending your moral values. Who will you not step on to get a leg up?

APM145
04-11-2009, 06:02 PM
My point is GOJet is a very lean airline and has a great potential for profitability.
Now if pilots would just opent their eyes a little bit, they would see that GOJet is an airline of the future. 50 seat market has no future. And 50 seat pilots are a dieing breed. So might wanna consider investing into something more long term.

Xelectro,

Well said, spoken like a true new guy... You got your CFI ticket in april '07, hired by XJT in August '07 and then furloughed/ hired by GoJet into a fancy 70 seater. And you know it all.

Airline pilots know what 50 seater are, and many would like to get 70 seat if that the way the market goes. TSA pilots wanted to grow with their company and fly that 70 market as you say but guess what... Management at every aiirline is not as ethical as others. So you found yourself in the new hot market because your so expereinced about this industry? No, you took a job at an AlterEgo airline, created to work around a union contract. They learned enough from fredom airlines (J. Ornstein) to make one less mistake and get past the courst with an unethical move.

But hey it was legal, so your a great guy right? Im not sure what happen to ethics but you need to revisit the history of GoJet, Freedom, and how airlines use newcomers to make a shady business scheme fly. Thanks for justifying your employment.

CaptainCarl
04-11-2009, 06:14 PM
That new one seems to be stalled. It seems that wheb you guys can't turn it into a bash Gojet thread, you don't have much else to say.

Nothing new to talk about in that one... yet.

As for having nothing else to say unless it's about bashing GoJet, well, we all know that's not true. By the way, say "hi" to your... Nevermind. :D

Positive_Rate
04-11-2009, 08:16 PM
Now if pilots would just opent their eyes a little bit, they would see that GOJet is an airline of the future. 50 seat market has no future. And 50 seat pilots are a dieing breed. So might wanna consider investing into something more long term.


WOW.

This guy is almost as good as BUR...but wait, he's banned...darn. Anywho, I return to my original hypothesis that this fine young specimin of a GJ pilot will end up on a scab list before the end of his career. Please enlighten us more on the future of airlines, and why don't you change your status to GJ New Hire instead of "Furloughed". You've got a job, right?

Xelectro
04-12-2009, 06:13 AM
Not banned! Where did you get that from?

xtreme
04-12-2009, 06:25 AM
This is just the spiral of failure the airline industry is failing. Next generation of pilots will be fighting for minimum wage while management says "you work for tips!"

Umm, not going to get in on this one, but you should read up on your history. The airline industry was founded on underbidding, as early as the first mail carrier contracts with the post master general. It's been "spiraling" since the very beginning. Just like with anything else in the business world, there is a supply and demand curve and the wages will settle when they find the point of equilibrium. Doesn't matter who is getting us there (Mesa, RAH, Go jet, etc...)

Positive_Rate
04-12-2009, 08:25 PM
Not banned! Where did you get that from?


I wasn't talking about you.