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View Full Version : Trans States MX


Positive_Rate
05-27-2009, 03:14 PM
/rant

...is going for the record of how many times they can ground a fleet of airplanes over paperwork/non-compliance. Second time in a month that half our fleet has been grounded over mis-handled or simply forgotten paperwork. We've got 13 airplanes down right now with more to come tonight I'm hearing...it's like they're saying "here FAA, come yank our certificate!"

/rant

Any other skiers have any more info?


Foxcow
05-27-2009, 03:23 PM
Deja-vu... With example after example of blatant disregard and negligence, I honestly don't know how the FAA has not taken serious action. I presume it is only a matter of time.

Purpleanga
05-27-2009, 03:48 PM
Hey, it's Poppin' Fresh!!!


seven6
05-27-2009, 05:55 PM
Has the media got a hold of this one yet? This is just what we need in the news after the Colgan incident.

dernic02
05-27-2009, 08:12 PM
what is the grounding for this time?

dernic02
05-27-2009, 08:13 PM
I am pretty sure the guy at the top of the page sold me a car

CaptainCarl
05-28-2009, 03:10 AM
I am pretty sure the guy at the top of the page sold me a car

That... or did your lav service. :D

ehe2
05-29-2009, 10:13 AM
That... or did your lav service. :D
Oh Carl, That made my day! So very true. That is some funny sh!t!!!

eaglefly
05-29-2009, 12:43 PM
The planes we've been getting back from TSA have been HORRENDOUS maintenance-wise. I wouldn't allow any of my loved ones on TSA due to their slipshod maintenance. This is not a shot at their pilots, for they are victims as well and I feel for them having to risk their lives every day on these aircraft.

In the interest of the safety of the flying public, TSA should be grounded until they can prove their maintenance is at an acceptable level and then they should remain under EXTREME scrutiny for an extended period of time. This may be the next accident to give the regional industry a black eye, only now it would involve bad maintenance, but still drag down the FAA's lack of oversight the way Buffalo did.

Pilotpip
05-29-2009, 12:52 PM
Gojet too, but that's a different company

(with the same mechanics turning the wrenches and whipping the pencils)

bryris
05-29-2009, 01:55 PM
The planes we've been getting back from TSA have been HORRENDOUS maintenance-wise. I wouldn't allow any of my loved ones on TSA due to their slipshod maintenance. This is not a shot at their pilots, for they are victims as well and I feel for them having to risk their lives every day on these aircraft.

In the interest of the safety of the flying public, TSA should be grounded until they can prove their maintenance is at an acceptable level and then they should remain under EXTREME scrutiny for an extended period of time. This may be the next accident to give the regional industry a black eye, only now it would involve bad maintenance, but still drag down the FAA's lack of oversight the way Buffalo did.

I saw a cockpit full of orange stickers, but what are you seeing that seems to indicate lives are being put in danger. PM me if you want to stay private.

Purpleanga
05-29-2009, 02:39 PM
Gojet too, but that's a different company

(with the same mechanics turning the wrenches and whipping the pencils)

If it's got a white or black nose cone it's Hulas operated.

eaglefly
05-29-2009, 03:25 PM
I saw a cockpit full of orange stickers, but what are you seeing that seems to indicate lives are being put in danger. PM me if you want to stay private.

We all have our own opinions and that was mine. The TSA planes returned to Eagle have apparently been so bad, the feds were notified. From what I've heard, I wouldn't put my dog on TSA, if I had one.

Feel free to make your own decisions, but I'll pass.

flyinaway411
05-29-2009, 03:36 PM
We all have our own opinions and that was mine. The TSA planes returned to Eagle have apparently been so bad, the feds were notified. From what I've heard, I wouldn't put my dog on TSA, if I had one.

Feel free to make your own decisions, but I'll pass.

Hey Chief...sometimes its better to keep your opinion to yourself. Saying you wouldn't put your dog on a TSA airplane is pretty offensive to us pilots, whether you meant it or not, especially with so much hearsay. Maybe you belong as an "aviation expert" for the media, i think you'd fit right in. Our Mx might suck, but we pilots will not take a plane that is unsafe for flight. So dont worry about your dog. :rolleyes:

Positive_Rate
05-29-2009, 05:35 PM
What he said.

250 or point 65
05-29-2009, 06:03 PM
This is not a shot at their pilots, for they are victims as well and I feel for them having to risk their lives every day on these aircraft.

Actually, it is a very big shot below the belt at our pilots. It is absolutely asinine to assume that because MX is what it is at TSA, that our pilots would choose to fly an unairworthy aircraft.

Also, we don't want your high and mighty sympathy. Don't gimme that "I feel for you" bull, thinking we're putting our lives at risk anymore than you are in your 145. To tell us that means that you don't respect our decision making skills and insinuates that we are weak minded pilots willing to fly anything that MX tells us to.

I "feel" for you that someday you may get knocked off your pedestal.

skippy
05-29-2009, 07:19 PM
to the eagle person-- are you freaking serious? our planes are so bad? i hate to stoop to your level, but how many fatalities has eagle had based on either MX or pilots- now run that figure for TSA-- Do you wish to rebut? didnt think so.


why must people say that they or their airline is better than any other airline ( unless it's gojet) we all work for crappy airlines thats like slaves saying "my massir is better than yo massir" your still slaves you freaking morons!

SKIPPY-- get a life

Atreyu
05-29-2009, 08:20 PM
Only reason why I wouldn't want my dog on TSA is because he'd be delayed or cancelled due to maintenance, not because I'd be afraid he'd die.

He may be dehydrated as well due to the fact that we have no APU's in the summertime.

BTW, according to our training department, the 10 jets we got from Eagle weren't in that great of shape as when we got them either.

Purpleanga
05-29-2009, 08:25 PM
BTW, according to our training department, the 10 jets we got from Eagle weren't in that great of shape as when we got them either.

I agree with that. The only TSA airplane that I had questions about it's safety was one of the Eagle planes.

eaglefly
05-30-2009, 08:57 AM
Actually, it is a very big shot below the belt at our pilots. It is absolutely asinine to assume that because MX is what it is at TSA, that our pilots would choose to fly an unairworthy aircraft.

Also, we don't want your high and mighty sympathy. Don't gimme that "I feel for you" bull, thinking we're putting our lives at risk anymore than you are in your 145. To tell us that means that you don't respect our decision making skills and insinuates that we are weak minded pilots willing to fly anything that MX tells us to.

I "feel" for you that someday you may get knocked off your pedestal.

Of course you wouldn't "choose" to fly an unsafe aircraft. I understand your emotion, but TSA pilots aren't the problem. The problems Eagle has found were beyond your (pilots) notice. Many aircraft have required serious work to make them airworthy. I'm sorry you are offended, but my position still stands.

A lot of things can be seriously wrong with aircraft that pilots are unaware of. It has apparently taken another set of eyes and the aircraft taken apart to find these issues. Because of this (things PILOTS cannot see), I would not fly on TSA and forbid my loved ones from doing so.

eaglefly
05-30-2009, 08:59 AM
I agree with that. The only TSA airplane that I had questions about it's safety was one of the Eagle planes.

Feel free to avoid flying Eagle aircraft, then. That is your right. My position also involves Go Jet aircraft because the same company is behind that operation as well.

I'd rather hitchhike.

eaglefly
05-30-2009, 09:01 AM
Only reason why I wouldn't want my dog on TSA is because he'd be delayed or cancelled due to maintenance, not because I'd be afraid he'd die.

He may be dehydrated as well due to the fact that we have no APU's in the summertime.

BTW, according to our training department, the 10 jets we got from Eagle weren't in that great of shape as when we got them either.

Are these the same characters who apparently cut all the corners the ones who told them this ?

If so, then perhaps their remedy was not to fix anything........that would make sense.

eaglefly
05-30-2009, 09:03 AM
Actually, it is a very big shot below the belt at our pilots. It is absolutely asinine to assume that because MX is what it is at TSA, that our pilots would choose to fly an unairworthy aircraft.


I never made that assumption...........YOU did.

Pilots do basic walkarounds and only go by what the AML says. What occurs in the insides of the aircraft are out of your observation. That has been where the problems are.

eaglefly
05-30-2009, 09:07 AM
SKIPPY-- get a life

I'd like to keep the one I have. That is why I have chosen to not fly on TSA/Go Jet Aircraft and not allow my loved ones to either. It is NOT because of anything with the pilots, but what's beyond the scope of their ability to detect.

In America, everyone makes their own choices..........those are mine.

eaglefly
05-30-2009, 09:09 AM
Our Mx might suck, but we pilots will not take a plane that is unsafe for flight. So dont worry about your dog. :rolleyes:

Well, I guess it's now more then "hearsay" as you freely admit that yes, your maintenance does "suck".

This makes me all the more comfortable with my decisions.

250 or point 65
05-30-2009, 10:35 AM
A lot of things can be seriously wrong with aircraft that pilots are unaware of. It has apparently taken another set of eyes and the aircraft taken apart to find these issues. Because of this (things PILOTS cannot see), I would not fly on TSA and forbid my loved ones from doing so.

So exactly what problems did Eagle MX find. We'd really appreciate the info on exactly what our MX is missing, considering we are still flying other 145s.

I'd love to see this guy outside the airport hitch-hiking because the only ride home is on TSA. I would hope that he'd never ask us for a ride.

Atreyu
05-30-2009, 01:17 PM
Ugh, don't feed the trolls.

Especially the "My crappy regional is better than your crappy regional" trolls.

NoBeta
05-30-2009, 04:14 PM
Any updates on the actual issue??? Were more aircraft grounded for paperwork issues..etc..etc..???

Hayduke
05-30-2009, 05:20 PM
Of course you wouldn't "choose" to fly an unsafe aircraft. I understand your emotion, but TSA pilots aren't the problem. The problems Eagle has found were beyond your (pilots) notice. Many aircraft have required serious work to make them airworthy. I'm sorry you are offended, but my position still stands.


You clearly haven't been in the industry long enough to understand just how unwaveringly reliable the rumors you hear from mechanics are. You obviously don't know specifics, but that's OK because mx guys are always 100% truthful and never exaggerate or spread untrue crap.

Eagle's maintenance is not the best in the industry, btw.

flyinaway411
05-30-2009, 05:56 PM
Ugh, don't feed the trolls.



Amen!!!!!!!!!

IC ALL
05-30-2009, 08:02 PM
"Ugh, don't feed the trolls."

Mod note:

This may be a good time to remind users about the ignore user feature. Click on the users screen name. Click on public profile. Click on ignore user.

Have a nice day....

eaglefly
05-31-2009, 04:05 AM
You clearly haven't been in the industry long enough to understand just how unwaveringly reliable the rumors you hear from mechanics are. You obviously don't know specifics, but that's OK because mx guys are always 100% truthful and never exaggerate or spread untrue crap.

Eagle's maintenance is not the best in the industry, btw.

You're right. I've only been here a couple of decades............silly me. Hopefully any rumors they're spreading aren't the same ones the feds are investigating.

250 or point 65
05-31-2009, 10:49 AM
eaglefly,

Could you please explain to us the would-be fatal errors that our MX made on the Eagle planes? This is very important because if they made them on those, they are still making the same mistakes on the 145's we still have.

So once again: What specifically did our MX do/not do that put our lives in danger?

Positive_Rate
05-31-2009, 01:04 PM
.The problems Eagle has found were beyond your (pilots) notice. Many aircraft have required serious work to make them airworthy.

Please elaborate. What kind of issues were they finding? So they weren't airworthy when they were ferried back to Eagle?

eaglefly
05-31-2009, 03:25 PM
I'm not going to claim any specifics for several reasons (attack that at your option, I'm O.K. with that). My point was that I (me) and my loved ones will not fly on those carriers for reasons stated above. We all have choices and that is mine. Some pilots may not choose to fly Mesa for other reasons, etc. and that is their right. Perhaps Eagle and TSA have different ideas of "airworthy" ?

I'm surprised anyone wants to know specifics as I have already been disregarded as a "troll". So again, what's the point as my comments are not to be taken as fact, only opinion.

Relax and fly on with confidence. After all, if there are REALLY any problems with your aircraft that would jeopardize your safety, the FAA will be there to put a stop to it. Since they haven't, you're good to go and why get worked up over an erronously opinionated troll ?

be76flyer
05-31-2009, 03:42 PM
eaglefly,

Could you please explain to us the would-be fatal errors that our MX made on the Eagle planes? This is very important because if they made them on those, they are still making the same mistakes on the 145's we still have.

So once again: What specifically did our MX do/not do that put our lives in danger?

Things I have seen in ABI with the TSA planes: not TSO parts, incorrect repairs, rigged sensors.

250 or point 65
05-31-2009, 04:12 PM
Things I have seen in ABI with the TSA planes: not TSO parts, incorrect repairs, rigged sensors.

Anything that in your opinion would lead to imminent death? By all means, tell us which parts, which sensors. If this is so important, be ethical and tell us what is wrong so we can do something about it. Our MEC has set up a regular meeting with MX and mgmt to voice our concerns and this would be the perfect information to bring up at one of these meetings. Don't you think?


Also, eaglefly, I never called you a troll, someone else did. However, it's rather unethical to tell a pilot group that they are flying ticking timebombs and not tell us what is specifically wrong. Furthermore, it's pretty unethical to supposedly have information that would cause such a strong opinion and not go to the FAA about it.

be76flyer
05-31-2009, 04:43 PM
Anything that in your opinion would lead to imminent death?

Imminent death NO, but I do think they could be a link in a accident chain.


Furthermore, it's pretty unethical to supposedly have information that would cause such a strong opinion and not go to the FAA about it.

I wasn't there but the MX guys said the FAA was there for all the work done on 601 and 602.

ehe2
05-31-2009, 05:02 PM
I wasn't there but the MX guys said the FAA was there for all the work done on 601 and 602.

For all the skiiers,
If I am right, 601=813 and 602=814. We all know what happened to 814.

bryris
05-31-2009, 05:51 PM
I'm not to claim any specifics for several reasons (attack that at your option, I'm O.K. with that). My point was that I (me) and my loved ones will not fly on those carriers for reasons stated above. We all have choices and that is mine. Some pilots may not choose to fly Mesa for other reasons, etc. and that is their right. Perhaps Eagle and TSA have different ideas of "airworthy" ?

I'm surprised anyone wants to know specifics as I have already been disregarded as a "troll". So again, what's the point as my comments are not to be taken as fact, only opinion.

Relax and fly on with confidence. After all, if there are REALLY any problems with your aircraft that would jeopardize your safety, the FAA will be there to put a stop to it. Since they haven't, you're good to go and why get worked up over an erronously opinionated troll ?

I'll translate:

"I don't actually know of anything just feel that TSA is below me and my regional and will throw this statement out there with NO substantial information to support it just to perpetuate conflict"

Reality: If you actually knew of something that was seriously wrong mechanically with those airplanes, you as a professional would report it to the FAA, anonymously if needed. I don't know you, but as a fellow professional, I am going to make that assumption of you.

ERJF15
05-31-2009, 06:43 PM
Why are we pointing the finger at who's airplanes are crappy and who's are not. If anyone has any experience in fixing any airplane, especially a jet, would know that it only takes one bad apple to spoil a bunch. We at Eagle don't have the best MX folks just like the rest.

We too have our few bad MX apples just like we have our few bad pilots! The same held true when I worked the line fixing fighters for the USAF. EVERYONE no matter who it is, has its issues. I told a capt one day I was flying with that a piece of safety wire was hanging out of a drain hole on the motor and he asked me "what's safety wire?"

eaglefly
05-31-2009, 06:54 PM
Things I have seen in ABI with the TSA planes: not TSO parts, incorrect repairs, rigged sensors.

Shhhhhh...............quiet now.

Operations have been shut down for these claims and we don't want to stir up trouble. Please don't repeat this, or you too will become a troll.

250 or point 65
05-31-2009, 06:56 PM
Shhhhhh...............quiet now.

Operations have been shut down for these claims and we don't want to stir up trouble. Please don't repeat this, or you too will become a troll.


Again, i never called you a troll. That was one person. What I think is that Bryris and the rest of us have hit it right on the head about your "opinion" that is evidently not based at all in fact.

eaglefly
05-31-2009, 06:58 PM
Anything that in your opinion would lead to imminent death? By all means, tell us which parts, which sensors. If this is so important, be ethical and tell us what is wrong so we can do something about it. Our MEC has set up a regular meeting with MX and mgmt to voice our concerns and this would be the perfect information to bring up at one of these meetings. Don't you think?


Also, eaglefly, I never called you a troll, someone else did. However, it's rather unethical to tell a pilot group that they are flying ticking timebombs and not tell us what is specifically wrong. Furthermore, it's pretty unethical to supposedly have information that would cause such a strong opinion and not go to the FAA about it.

If it's "unethical" to say I choose to avoid flying on any pirticular airlines aircraft for any reason, then I'll accept my guilt. From what I've heard I'd only be telling the feds what they already know.

It surprises me that you've become so sensitive about this.........after all, just who do you think you've been working for all these years ?

You cannot tell me that you're THAT nieve, can you ?

250 or point 65
05-31-2009, 07:00 PM
Again, how about telling the TRANS STATES MEC!

If youve got info, you need to share it.

eaglefly
05-31-2009, 07:02 PM
I'll translate:

"I don't actually know of anything just feel that TSA is below me and my regional and will throw this statement out there with NO substantial information to support it just to perpetuate conflict"

Reality: If you actually knew of something that was seriously wrong mechanically with those airplanes, you as a professional would report it to the FAA, anonymously if needed. I don't know you, but as a fellow professional, I am going to make that assumption of you.

Incorrect assumption, but feel free.

True translation :

Issues have been found that are unacceptable to me regarding aircraft returned to us from another carrier and based on those issues, I've made the decison to insure my safety and that of my loved ones by avoiding exposure to those conditions I feel would jeopardize my safety excessively.

I don't fly junk, rat trap GA airplanes either.

eaglefly
05-31-2009, 07:04 PM
Again, i never called you a troll. That was one person. What I think is that Bryris and the rest of us have hit it right on the head about your "opinion" that is evidently not based at all in fact.

Then fly on my friend.

I retain the right to determine where I place my behind and I'll avoid TSA/GoJet until such time I'm confident of their maintenance.

'Nuff said.

eaglefly
05-31-2009, 07:08 PM
Again, how about telling the TRANS STATES MEC!

If youve got info, you need to share it.

One little old Eagle pilot is supposed to do that for anothers pilot group AND union ?

Perhaps you should direct your concerns to your reps to do their own fact finding work. I work for another carrier and my responsibilities are not to become a safety rep for yours...........besides, my comments are all unfounded opinion.

;)

250 or point 65
05-31-2009, 07:09 PM
Issues have been found that are unacceptable to me regarding aircraft returned to us from another carrier and based on those issues,


What issues again?

skippy
05-31-2009, 08:12 PM
you kids sound like freaking 4 year olds and the whole "my dad can beat up your dad routine"

or the pee wee big adventure " i know you are but what am I"

maybe we can all threesome dotty and go to the alamo... the aaalllllaaaaammmooooooo and if we get lucky maybe we'll say the word of the day which will be "MAINTENANCE"

SKIPPY

boilerpilot
05-31-2009, 09:06 PM
One little old Eagle pilot is supposed to do that for anothers pilot group AND union ?

Perhaps you should direct your concerns to your reps to do their own fact finding work. I work for another carrier and my responsibilities are not to become a safety rep for yours...........besides, my comments are all unfounded opinion.

;)

If you've become privy to information suggesting a lack of enforcement of regulations and/or safety, you would be negligent not to inform the TSA MEC or somebody from the FAA. If something were to, God forbid, happen that you might have prevented, a family member of a victim would well be able to bring litigation against you.

FYI.

Herbie
06-01-2009, 12:17 AM
Sure seems like a certain person on here really likes the sound of their own voice.

Eaglefly, so far all that you have said is that you will avoid putting both yourself and your family members on an aircraft that is operated by TSA, but for some reason when people ask you for some information as to why, you just seem to repeat yourself over and over again. You are freely willing to bash MX at TSA but not give at least a hint as to why. So from that I can draw the opinion that you are uninformed and simply like to bash someone else because you may be bitter that TSA was flying those aircraft in the first place.

I had plenty of issues with the eagle birds, 815 especially. But I would never get in an airplane that I felt was going to put my safety or those of my passengers in jeopardy.

That being said, I will be the first to admit that TSA MX certainly leaves something to be desired. But I find that there issues pertain more often than not to conveinience and not safety. If you want to bash TSA, no one can stop you. But please come to the table with FACTS and not the useless battering drivel that you have brought to us so far.

eaglefly
06-01-2009, 06:33 AM
If you've become privy to information suggesting a lack of enforcement of regulations and/or safety, you would be negligent not to inform the TSA MEC or somebody from the FAA. If something were to, God forbid, happen that you might have prevented, a family member of a victim would well be able to bring litigation against you.

FYI.

Perry Mason, I presume ?

ROFLMAO !!!!!!

What if the FAA is already looking into this situation ?

Bringing litigation against ME for conduct other airlines may be doing ?

ROFLMAO !!!!!!

What if you were walking down the street and noticed a drunk driver going down the road. A mile later he runs over innocent people in a crosswalk and it's brought to light you saw him and didn't phone police ?

Gee.........wouldn't someone be able to bring litigation against you ?

Come on Perry, your series is over and it's time to lie down and rest.

eaglefly
06-01-2009, 06:43 AM
Sure seems like a certain person on here really likes the sound of their own voice.

Eaglefly, so far all that you have said is that you will avoid putting both yourself and your family members on an aircraft that is operated by TSA, but for some reason when people ask you for some information as to why, you just seem to repeat yourself over and over again. You are freely willing to bash MX at TSA but not give at least a hint as to why. So from that I can draw the opinion that you are uninformed and simply like to bash someone else because you may be bitter that TSA was flying those aircraft in the first place.

You're right, that's all I've said..........I've chosen not to fly TSA or GoJet. For me, posting "specifics" isn't necessary other then to say it is maintenance related. What does it matter if it involves this action or that component ?

I'm not making decisions for anyone else and certainly few if any others, will choose based on my choices, so lets let this thread die peacefully, with each of our own choices intact. Not bitter about the bird transfer either, as that was not the fault of TSA or its pilots.

boilerpilot
06-01-2009, 09:50 AM
What if you were walking down the street and noticed a drunk driver going down the road. A mile later he runs over innocent people in a crosswalk and it's brought to light you saw him and didn't phone police ?

Gee.........wouldn't someone be able to bring litigation against you ?

You aren't qualified to make a judgment on somebody's sobriety, just like you aren't qualified to make a judgment on whether or not an airplane is airworthy beyond what you hear through rumors. Now, let's say the driver was drunk and TOLD you that he was drunk and going to drive (the driver is MX in this case). If you then did nothing to stop him and something were to have happened, you could be seen as an accessory. You may disagree, but that's the way it is. Same thing if somebody tells you they're going to break the law or they did break the law. You sit on that information, you can be held liable.

So like I said. There's two options here; either you don't have any specific information, or you're playing games with peoples' lives by not informing TSA MEC or the Feds.

eaglefly
06-01-2009, 10:47 AM
You aren't qualified to make a judgment on somebody's sobriety, just like you aren't qualified to make a judgment on whether or not an airplane is airworthy beyond what you hear through rumors. Now, let's say the driver was drunk and TOLD you that he was drunk and going to drive (the driver is MX in this case). If you then did nothing to stop him and something were to have happened, you could be seen as an accessory. You may disagree, but that's the way it is. Same thing if somebody tells you they're going to break the law or they did break the law. You sit on that information, you can be held liable.

So like I said. There's two options here; either you don't have any specific information, or you're playing games with peoples' lives by not informing TSA MEC or the Feds.

Jeez.............this is pure propwash and your opinion.

By your own admission, since I'm not "qualified to make a judgement on whether or not an airplane is airworthy beyond what I hear through rumors", then how could I be held liable ?

This seems to shoot down your whole ridiculous argument. The feds would know more then I do, so what would I tell THEM ?

I've not instructed others to do anything, only stated what I and my loved ones would do and what I think the FEDS should do with TSA. I am qualified to act in my best interest or safety based on any information I receive and the free choice to consider the validity of that information to whatever degree I choose, just as any citizen of the USA is. I'm not legally (or any other way) required to justify to you, the TSA MEC or anyone else WHY I may choose to not fly any pirticular carrier for whatever reason.

Don't like it ?

TOUGH.

BTW, the term "accessory" is used in CRIMINAL compliants, NOT civil actions. One minute you've got me being sued by potential victims and the next led off in handcuffs. Too much "Law and Order" has fostered legal delusions of grandeur in your head.

Really, Perry this is already getting quite old (even your secretary is quitting), but feel free to contact a REAL attorney if you wish.

250 or point 65
06-01-2009, 10:54 AM
Alright guys, I think we've beat this one to death.

In summary, eaglyfly has proven that he has absolutely no basis for his "opinions". There is no fact here, just some Nth degree rumor about something someone found on one of the former AX birds. For all we know it started with a non-tso'd bolt on an armrest.

ExperimentalAB
06-01-2009, 10:58 AM
Tgis thread is indeed rich in it's entertainment value...!

eaglefly
06-01-2009, 11:10 AM
Alright guys, I think we've beat this one to death.

In summary, eaglyfly has proven that he has absolutely no basis for his "opinions". There is no fact here, just some Nth degree rumor about something someone found on one of the former AX birds. For all we know it started with a non-tso'd bolt on an armrest.

Yes.............fly on my friends.

I've never asked for others to act based on what I may have heard or seen on this issue. If significant problems are found then the FAA would fine or shut down TSA.

That is what the FAA is for. It is not what "eaglefly" is for.

250 or point 65
06-01-2009, 11:22 AM
We actually agree!

I think we all know what eaglefly is for.

eaglefly
06-01-2009, 12:01 PM
We actually agree!

I think we all know what eaglefly is for.

We certainly do !

:D

Mason32
06-21-2009, 12:30 PM
Reality: If you actually knew of something that was seriously wrong mechanically with those airplanes, you as a professional would report it to the FAA, anonymously if needed. I don't know you, but as a fellow professional, I am going to make that assumption of you.

It is common knowledge that the repair facility called the FSDO to send inspectors over regarding at least two of the airplanes sent back to AMR.
That is a fact. What the exact problem was is anybody's call. If you really want to know, call the FSDO out there, or have your MEC call the FSDO, or the MX shop. Somewhere along the line it is all public record once they are involved.

I heard it was pencil whipped AD compliance, with timed out parts still in use on the planes being a major factor. The mx guys that discovered the problems refused to work on them, or sign them off until the FAA responded and OK'd the sign off's. Bellcranks have been mentioned from more than once source.

TBucket
06-21-2009, 05:10 PM
It is common knowledge that the repair facility called the FSDO to send inspectors over regarding at least two of the airplanes sent back to AMR.
That is a fact. What the exact problem was is anybody's call. If you really want to know, call the FSDO out there, or have your MEC call the FSDO, or the MX shop. Somewhere along the line it is all public record once they are involved.

I heard it was pencil whipped AD compliance, with timed out parts still in use on the planes being a major factor. The mx guys that discovered the problems refused to work on them, or sign them off until the FAA responded and OK'd the sign off's. Bellcranks have been mentioned from more than once source.


Now, I have no idea how valid any of this is... But if the FAA had actually found something, wouldn't something have happened? I mean, wouldn't we at TSA have heard something or seen some changes, or had the mx people freaking out? It doesn't seem like the feds would be like "Yeah, they weren't complying with important ADs, but... you know... whatever..."

Copperhed51
06-21-2009, 05:38 PM
Now, I have no idea how valid any of this is... But if the FAA had actually found something, wouldn't something have happened? I mean, wouldn't we at TSA have heard something or seen some changes, or had the mx people freaking out? It doesn't seem like the feds would be like "Yeah, they weren't complying with important ADs, but... you know... whatever..."

I've heard Hulas has very soft lips and removable teeth so who knows...

Mason32
06-21-2009, 05:45 PM
Now, I have no idea how valid any of this is... But if the FAA had actually found something, wouldn't something have happened? I mean, wouldn't we at TSA have heard something or seen some changes, or had the mx people freaking out? It doesn't seem like the feds would be like "Yeah, they weren't complying with important ADs, but... you know... whatever..."

Call the ABI mx shop that refused to work on the planes until the Feds were on site. Word is that the FSDO determined that the inspectors that "supervised" your MX dept, were former TSA MX employees. Not sure why you haven't heard about it.

TSA's MX practices are nothing new.... here's one from 2008. I'll find the more recent one for you when I get back home and have some free time.

from ALPA in 2008

April 21, 2008
American Eagle Pilots Warn AMR of Risks to Outsourcing Regional Flying
EULESS, TX - The American Eagle pilots’ union, a unit of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l., said it is concerned
about the possible loss of quality control if AMR Corporation (NYSE: AMR) allows further outsourcing of its regional
airline service to non-owned regional airline contractors.
The concern comes over statements made by Trans States Airlines management about safety. The St. Louis-based
commuter airline performs American Connection flying for American Airlines and has recently grounded 24 of its jets
because it did not meet safety standards. Flights were still being canceled late last week as Trans States worked to
complete inspections of its Embraer ERJ-145 airliners as a result of federally mandated inspections.
After an internal audit found certain electrical equipment that controls steering on the nose wheel of some planes did
not meet specifications the St. Louis Post Dispatch reported that a Trans States spokesperson stated, “The nosewheel
is not used in flight. It’s used only for taxiing. This does not involve the safety of flights.”
While every airline is undergoing intense FAA scrutiny recently, American Eagle pilots are very concerned about Trans
States management’s underlying attitude toward safety. “Eagle pilots are dumbfounded at such an attitude towards
something as critical as a nose wheel steering system,” said Captain Herb Mark, of the American Eagle unit of Air Line
Pilots Association (ALPA). “Exactly how would a nose wheel steering failure at 100 knots during the takeoff or landing
not involve the safety of the flight?”
ALPA contends that Trans States’ remarks demonstrate exactly why it is in AMR’s best interest to retain American
Eagle as a wholly owned subsidiary. Safety and quality control is best maintained with an operator who is closely tied
to the safety and quality standards of the mainline carrier over the long term.
“American Eagle has decades of experience in providing safe, reliable and professional service to American Airlines
passengers connecting to the AA route network. It’s what we do best,” said Captain Mark.
Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world’s largest pilot union representing more than 56,000 pilots at 41 airlines in the U.S.
and Canada. With more than 3,000 pilots, American Eagle is a wholly owned subsidiary of AMR (NYSE: AMR) and
provides feed to American Airlines as well as point-to-point service in North and Central America and the Caribbean.

This is a quote from another board in May:


According to some MX guys in ABI that I visited with, they were so concerned about what was being discovered on some of the repo aircraft that they called the FAA to come take a look for themselves.

Once instance he told me was where the fuel low level warning kept going off on one of the aircraft, so TSA MX simply cut the appropriate wire so the warning would no longer go off.

250 or point 65
06-22-2009, 07:19 AM
Many prefer to be ostrichs and denial is always more comforatble then bad news. Those who may be upset by the breif revival of this thread can now go back to placing the palms of their hands on their ears and say, "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA" until bad news goes away.


Actually, we were the ones asking for additional information that you were unable to provide. Way to be as condescending as possible though.

eaglefly
06-22-2009, 08:07 AM
Actually, we were the ones asking for additional information that you were unable to provide. Way to be as condescending as possible though.

Why is it MY responsibility to do your due diligence. If I were you, I'd be proactive and contact the necessary sources to get more information, instead of depending on pilots from other carriers who don't fly your planes to do it for you.

It's called "taking responsibility for your life".

If the situation was reversed, I'd be looking into myself where the detailed information might exist, instead of whining on pilot webboards about others who won't do it for me.

Good Luck.

AirWillie
06-22-2009, 08:56 AM
You're right.

Many prefer to be ostrichs and denial is always more comforatble then bad news. Those who may be upset by the breif revival of this thread can now go back to placing the palms of their hands on their ears and say, "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA" until bad news goes away.

It's interesting to question why some are cackling like chickens over commuter safety because of the Colgan accident, but when this issue is brought up (regarding a carrier with PREVIOUS safety deficiencies with their aircraft maintenance are documented), many of the same want to run and hide.

Weird................but hey, that's what pilots do and another sad example of the hopelessly dysfunctional group of workers we are.

eaglefly, I think you forgot to take your medication. Remember, the blue pills are supposed to be taken twice daily. I need you to call your doctor and tell him he needs the up the dose. If you don't call him, we will for your own good. Now relax, only 24 months to go before you get off that ready reserve at eagle, we would all be delusional as well, it's understandable.

flyinaway411
06-22-2009, 09:00 AM
It's interesting to question why some are cackling like chickens over commuter safety because of the Colgan accident, but when this issue is brought up (regarding a carrier with PREVIOUS safety deficiencies with their aircraft maintenance are documented), many of the same want to run and hide.

nobody is running and hiding.

1. colgan accident had NOTHING to do with mx.
2. comair had NOTHING to do with mx.
3. tsa has not had an accident due to mx.

have i said tsa mx sucks. yup. because of the defer now, fix later attitude. because they'd rather fly around with the apu deferred knowing what the problem is then fix it, and instead wait til the last minute. we, the pilots, do not take an aircraft that is not airworthy. i for one am not gonna go on a witch hunt because of something known tsa bashers "heard" from someone and posted online.

eaglefly
06-22-2009, 09:14 AM
eaglefly, I think you forgot to take your medication. Remember, the blue pills are supposed to be taken twice daily. I need you to call your doctor and tell him he needs the up the dose. If you don't call him, we will for your own good. Now relax, only 24 months to go before you get off that ready reserve at eagle, we would all be delusional as well, it's understandable.

Haven't done reserve in 10 years. :D

Nice try though !

eaglefly
06-22-2009, 09:24 AM
nobody is running and hiding.

1. colgan accident had NOTHING to do with mx.
2. comair had NOTHING to do with mx.
3. tsa has not had an accident due to mx.


Who knows..........perhaps this industry is overdue for a MTX related accident ?

Feel free to investigate the TSA/Eagle MTX issues...........or not. It makes no difference to me as again, me or my loved ones don't fly on TSA or Go Jet.......it's a free country and it's my choice. It's not my responsibility to investigate other carriers for the safety of their employees and passengers. If I have concerns with my airline, I can look into it. If another carriers pilots are interested in any potential MTX issues with their airlines aircraft, that's their choice to look further too.

That's about it and it's all I've ever said. I've never instructed anyone else on what airlines to fly and really don't care, but I have the right to choose who I and my loved ones fly on (I don't fly Russian carriers either) and will do so.

AirWillie
06-22-2009, 09:38 AM
Who knows..........perhaps this industry is overdue for a MTX related accident ?

Feel free to investigate the TSA/Eagle MTX issues...........or not. It makes no difference to me as again, me or my loved ones don't fly on TSA or Go Jet.......it's a free country and it's my choice. It's not my responsibility to investigate other carriers for the safety of their employees and passengers. If I have concerns with my airline, I can look into it. If another carriers pilots are interested in any potential MTX issues with their airlines aircraft, that's their choice to look further too.

That's about it and it's all I've ever said. I've never instructed anyone else on what airlines to fly and really don't care, but I have the right to choose who I and my loved ones fly on (I don't fly Russian carriers either) and will do so.

Well as they said in TSA training, as long as the wings don't snapp off you're able to get it back down in one piece. By the way the Gojetssss planes are pretty new, you still have 3 or 4 more years before you have to hide your kids.

eaglefly
06-22-2009, 10:39 AM
Well as they said in TSA training, as long as the wings don't snapp off you're able to get it back down in one piece. By the way the Gojetssss planes are pretty new, you still have 3 or 4 more years before you have to hide your kids.

Where did you get the idea just because an aircraft is new it is automatically safe ?

If that's what they said in TSA training (and it doesn't suprise me), then all the more reason to steer clear for me as it demonstrates a pretty slipshod philosophy.

Thanks for the additional confirmation of my concerns.

Mason32
06-22-2009, 11:44 AM
Just let it drop EagleFly.... you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...

eaglefly
06-22-2009, 12:09 PM
Just let it drop EagleFly.... you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...

Agreed........

250 or point 65
06-22-2009, 01:24 PM
Just let it drop EagleFly.... you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...

except the water here is more of a mirage...

DryMotorBoatin
06-22-2009, 06:59 PM
I would say this thread is moments away from being the 95th consecutive TSA related thread to be closed.

AirWillie
06-22-2009, 08:06 PM
I would say this thread is moments away from being the 95th consecutive TSA related thread to be closed.

Did you have to say it? Now it's probably going to be closed. Although the ratio of something is missing from this TSA thread to be closed just yet, can't put my finger on it......hmmm

jparker371
06-22-2009, 08:17 PM
still nice to see that the pilots in this forum would rather bash each other/each others companies than discuss/debate something that they not only one can actually have an affect on but additionally something to better all of us out there, especially the ones still trying to make a career out of this industry no matter how hard it has become. this thread does not help any of that at all. im glad this thread is a reminder of why i avoid the forums untill middle of the night web boredom creeps in. keep up the good work guys your boosting the moral for all.........

Pilotpip
06-22-2009, 08:21 PM
Did you have to say it? Now it's probably going to be closed. Although the ratio of something is missing from this TSA thread to be closed just yet, can't put my finger on it......hmmm

Don't worry, they work on your planes too. But that's a different company...

AirWillie
06-22-2009, 08:26 PM
why i avoid the forums untill middle of the night web boredom creeps in. keep up the good work guys your boosting the moral for all.........

Well the other thread has it that RAH will be flying A320s. Hows that for boredom and morale?:eek:



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