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Foxcow
06-06-2009, 06:23 AM
For all the Waterskiers out there, please vote if you have not already. Voting closes on June 10th at I believe 10am. You can vote via telephone or through the website.

Getting your PIN takes literally a minute and voting even less time.


250 or point 65
06-06-2009, 07:48 AM
Just to clarify for those who may not have kept up. Only active members (not furloughees) can vote. Correct?

Positive_Rate
06-06-2009, 07:52 AM
Correct. Unfortunately, furloughees can not vote.


2Co2Fur1EXwife
06-06-2009, 08:08 AM
Good luck guys! stick it to 'em with a strong vote!

ExperimentalAB
06-06-2009, 08:15 AM
I'd vote for y'all if I could :D

Herbie
06-06-2009, 09:33 AM
Y'all know what the furloughed guys would vote for anyway. Good luck guys, stick it to em'.

JayHub
06-06-2009, 10:29 AM
Tic- toc...Gojetters...Tic-toc.

Purpleanga
06-06-2009, 12:20 PM
Y'all know what the furloughed guys would vote for anyway. Good luck guys, stick it to em'.

Against the strike? ....... NOT!!!

Mach93
06-06-2009, 12:22 PM
Tic- toc...Gojetters...Tic-toc.
If you think that a Gojet pilot will become an instant scab the day you guys walk the line you are sadly mistaken. Just because you guys walk out doesn't mean that Gojet has to shut down. They just can't fly any routes ie flight numbers, and city pairs (they don't currently serve) that Trans States flies in the days prior to the strike.

xtreme
06-06-2009, 12:25 PM
Against the strike? ....... NOT!!!

ThEse suit is NOT black. ThEse suit is blacknot.

xtreme
06-06-2009, 12:26 PM
If you think that a Gojet pilot will become an instant scab the day you guys walk the line you are sadly mistaken. Just because you guys walk out doesn't mean that Gojet has to shut down. They just can't fly any routes ie flight numbers, and city pairs (they don't currently serve) that Trans States flies in the days prior to the strike.

Aren't they already flying pre strike TSA routes?

Mach93
06-06-2009, 12:32 PM
Please, show me what routes you mean.

ExperimentalAB
06-06-2009, 12:42 PM
You know this is not just about GoJet, right...?

Foxcow
06-06-2009, 12:56 PM
You know this is not just about GoJet, right...?


Exactly. The goal is to attain a fair and equitable contract with job protection. The MEC will order a strike as a last resort to attain this goal.

Purpleanga
06-06-2009, 01:08 PM
If you think that a Gojet pilot will become an instant scab the day you guys walk the line you are sadly mistaken. Just because you guys walk out doesn't mean that Gojet has to shut down. They just can't fly any routes ie flight numbers, and city pairs (they don't currently serve) that Trans States flies in the days prior to the strike.

You're right. It will be a scab operation if Hulas decides to use GJ flights to replace the struck TSA work. The thing is though that GJ along with few others uax already do the same routes in many cases.

benairguitar23
06-06-2009, 01:44 PM
I feel all us pilots, furloughed and still flying, are behind you 110%!!! Hopefully you all will be an example to others in contract negotiations which will hopefully mark the beginning of a change in the industry! Keep up the good work and Good Luck! :)

JayHub
06-06-2009, 02:02 PM
If you think that a Gojet pilot will become an instant scab the day you guys walk the line you are sadly mistaken. Just because you guys walk out doesn't mean that Gojet has to shut down. They just can't fly any routes ie flight numbers, and city pairs (they don't currently serve) that Trans States flies in the days prior to the strike.

I said nothing about becoming a scab. The fact that you, as a gogetter, jumped to this conclusion is very insightful

TBucket
06-06-2009, 09:20 PM
Exactly. The goal is to attain a fair and equitable contract with job protection. The MEC will order a strike as a last resort to attain this goal.



Bingo, hit the nail on the head there...

250 or point 65
06-06-2009, 09:36 PM
Aren't they already flying pre strike TSA routes?

Well, sure. Everyone flies everyone else's routes depending on what month it is. Sometimes it seems that UAL just hands out routes monthly via a lottery. However, once a schedule it set, it is very easy for the TSA MEC to determine what flying is ours in the event of a strike.

Also, it is very easy to transfer flying from G7 to TSA and vice versa. Our schedulers were asked to staff G7 flights with TSA planes and crews as well as the other way around already. This doesn't make either group scabs, but it does illustrate the fact that if we strike, G7 pilots WILL be placed on our routes and it is up to them whether they will become scabs or be fired.

TBucket
06-06-2009, 11:12 PM
...G7 pilots WILL be placed on our routes and it is up to them whether they will become scabs or be fired.


And I think that will be a huge turning point for G7 in general. Either they'll end up being real scabs, or they'll finally show some (for lack of a better term) sack, stand up to mgmt, and gain some credit which will go a long ways in the eventual integration...

Personally, I have no idea which way it'll go... (Though I really hope it won't come to a strike. I'd much rather the company come up with the aforementioned fair and equitable contract)

ExperimentalAB
06-07-2009, 03:39 AM
It sure would be interesting to see what teh GoJet pilots are made of then...

jaded
06-07-2009, 11:23 AM
Best of luck Waterskiers!

Outlaw2097
06-07-2009, 11:46 AM
good luck tee-wees

Purpleanga
06-07-2009, 09:57 PM
Do you think it's possible for TSA to be completely shut down? What is prohibiting them from pulling the plug on TSA in an effort to grow Gojet? Or even starting another operation with 60 hour CAs and 20 hour FOs? As I understand it this strike is about job security, how much job security can the company actually give us considering the state of 50 seaters. One possibility is the merging of the seniority lists but if went by DOH it would mean a lot of GJ will be at the bottom. Maybe a seat lock would help but that could result in out of SN furloughs etc. It would probably also mean concessions like Mesa/Freedom 03. Tough times ahead for TSA.

Copperhed51
06-07-2009, 10:00 PM
Do you think it's possible for TSA to be completely shut down?

Yes

What is prohibiting them from pulling the plug on TSA in an effort to grow Gojet?

Only thing we can figure is that TSA is the cash cow that is funding the GoJetS expansion.

250 or point 65
06-07-2009, 10:08 PM
c'mon, bud. pretend to be interested in your airlines affairs.

Yes, its possible for TSA to be shut down, but it won't happen. Hulas is a business man. He is not egotistical, he is a business man. Decisions are based on his wallet. As long as TSA is making money, it will be kept open until it does not make money anymore.

Its been speculated that he needs the revenue from TSA to fund GoJet, so pulling the plug to grow it doesn't make sense.

He can't just shut us down and open back up. That's why we lost the Alter-Ego decision...because they didn't do exactly what you just asked about. That'd actually be something that ALPA could win.

You really should have listened to the last pilot tele-conference. ALPA's lawyer mentioned a few ways to get job protection. A size ratio of lists, merging the lists, etc. Merging the lists probably wont happen, but it is possible via the Scope grievance that is still pending.

Alright, I'm going to lay it out for you.

1) A strike probably won't happen. Remember, Hulas is a business man, if planes aren't flying, he's not making money. Plus this looks bad to United and other potential codeshares. The MEC is not asking for anything that will drastically affect Hulas' cost to the point that it is no longer cost effective to operate the airline.

2) Even if the strike does happen, either we take the risk of losing our jobs completely now, or lose them over the next 1-2 years. Its really job protection or bust at this point.

3) The few pilots in STL that are whining about people saying "burn it down" are so short sighted that they can't see that "burn it down" is a mentality, not the goal. Job protection and a fair contract is the goal, not a strike, not burning it down.

250 or point 65
06-07-2009, 10:09 PM
Yes


That's an awful answer. So improbable. But then again, thats exactly what Hulas wants you to think.

Purpleanga
06-07-2009, 10:11 PM
Yes


Unfortunately I think that's where this is going. The strike should happen because it's apparent that the company is done talking. The problem is do we actually have enough leverage?

250 or point 65
06-07-2009, 10:16 PM
Purple, please talk to a Pilot 2 Pilot or someone one the MEC that can update you on how negotiations are going and how they work. I mean, unless you're a flight manager, then you know exactly how they work.

You are pretty much saying exactly what management wants you to think. I'm not some big conspiracy theorist or union hardliner, just a guy that reads and has an idea of exactly the mentality Hulas' cronies are trying to sow.

Purpleanga
06-07-2009, 10:23 PM
Purple, please talk to a Pilot 2 Pilot or someone one the MEC that can update you on how negotiations are going and how they work. I mean, unless you're a flight manager, then you know exactly how they work.

You are pretty much saying exactly what management wants you to think. I'm not some big conspiracy theorist or union hardliner, just a guy that reads and has an idea of exactly the mentality Hulas' cronies are trying to sow.

Trust me, I could care less about supporting management because I'm from the side lines, to me TSA might as well not exist right now. But I'm all for the active pilots. I just don't see the leverage and how we're going to get any sort of job security out of the contract. GJ is growing and they're the favorites. Is there any plan other than to hope we get something on the last hour before a strike? Even then what are we expecting with just this 50 seater certificate?

250 or point 65
06-07-2009, 10:26 PM
Not really, but thats how things are going. My guess is that something will be pulled together in the 11th hour.

Our leverage is money. I don't know why so many guys seem confused about this. TSA makes Hulas money. Hulas likes money. Hulas needs money to expand GoJet. Shutting down TSA quickly hurts Hulas. We still have that leverage. If we don't use that leverage now, its going to be shut down slowly.

Purpleanga
06-07-2009, 10:37 PM
Not really, but thats how things are going. My guess is that something will be pulled together in the 11th hour.

Our leverage is money. I don't know why so many guys seem confused about this. TSA makes Hulas money. Hulas likes money. Hulas needs money to expand GoJet. Shutting down TSA quickly hurts Hulas. We still have that leverage. If we don't use that leverage now, its going to be shut down slowly.

Well if he needs TSA for money as well as GJ for the whipsaw, why don't they just merge the two companies and imposes massive concessions like JO did for Mesa pilots when they merged with Freedom? They're even against that, do you think that's what will happen on the 11th hour? All I know is that with just this 50 seater certificate it's going to be a dead end for TSA.

TBucket
06-08-2009, 02:21 AM
All I know is that with just this 50 seater certificate it's going to be a dead end for TSA.

The thing is, with the American Connection codeshare gone, there's no reason that TSA has to be a 50-seat only certificate...

BringDaFunk
06-08-2009, 03:04 AM
Its too bad you guys cant see.
The industry is too volatile for a strike!
You'll be shooting yourself in the foot, noone will pay attention, or get the sense of what you are trying to do.You will be seamrolled by united, as most of your flying has a better chance of going to gojets or any other UAX carrier as they will just move whatever flying they need covered over to whoever can take it.But good luck anyway.
Just remember Monday June 15th!-We'll see you out on the line!

TBucket
06-08-2009, 05:50 AM
Its too bad you guys cant see....

Wow, man, what are you smoking? UA can't just route around it because none of the reputable companies are going to fly struck work... G7 is the only wildcard in there. As for the state of the industry, what does that have to do with contract negotiations between a pilot group and Hulas? The idea behind a strike is to deprive mgmt of operating revenues, not PR or public support or whatnot.

(Not to mention that, really, now might be the best time for something like that... After the colgan accident, the public just might be able to get behind a pilot group fighting for fair compensation, safer work rules, and job security.)

250 or point 65
06-08-2009, 06:17 AM
All I know is that with just this 50 seater certificate it's going to be a dead end for TSA.

The thing is, with the American Connection codeshare gone, there's no reason that TSA has to be a 50-seat only certificate...

My God, again with the short sightedness.

When the going is good Hulas makes a TON of money on AX at risk flying. This flying is not something the Eagle guys can whine about because if Hulas is creating a route or frequency that was not there, it was never "their flying" (nor was the TWE routes, but thats a different story)

Why do you guys think Hulas bent over backwards to keep the relationship open with the ground contract, etc? He wants to do at-risk flying for AX when things turn around. Plus, one codeshare partner is VERY risky, he'd prefer to diversify his portfolio.

250 or point 65
06-08-2009, 06:21 AM
BringDaFunk, best laugh I've had in a while!

Read post 26, cause I really don't feel like typing it out again. It'd be really helpful if before you wrote all in bold and caps and 168 font if you'd read the other arguments in the thread. The main one being that, well, a strike probably won't happen and thats not at all our goal, even though we are willing to.

CaptainCarl
06-08-2009, 08:20 AM
Just remember Monday June 15th!-We'll see you out on the line!

Huh? :confused: What's going on on the 15th? Is somebody striking? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

bryris
06-08-2009, 08:26 AM
Huh? :confused: What's going on on the 15th? Is somebody striking?

This dude thinks he can change the airline industry by leading a minuscule fraction of the airline pilots out there to be inefficient (walk slow, fly slow, and volunteer for holds) thereby resulting in greater pay and QOL. The kickoff is supposedly June 15th.

There is a thread on this, go check it out.

steak pilot
06-08-2009, 10:59 AM
Its too bad you guys cant see.
The industry is too volatile for a strike!
You'll be shooting yourself in the foot, noone will pay attention, or get the sense of what you are trying to do.....

True, the industry is all up in arms; furloughs, pay cuts, ect... However, the American public is more than likely going to be behind pilot groups just because of how the media exposed the lower pay scales at regionals vs. majors during their "coverage" of Colgan 3407.

Keep fighting the good fight, TSA'ers.

Remember: We are TWICE the pilots HALF the pay.

Copperhed51
06-08-2009, 11:07 AM
Unfortunately I think that's where this is going. The strike should happen because it's apparent that the company is done talking. The problem is do we actually have enough leverage?

I don't necessarily think that's where things are headed, I just think that it's entirely possible that it could happen. It seems like it's a race between the pilot group to force Hulas to allow us a good contract and him trying to get rid of airplanes and pilots so that when we do force his hand, he can drop the whole operation and not lose any money because of it. If we had access to the financials of the company, then we'd have a better idea of what the situation really is.

Anybody who didn't like my "yes" answer read too much into it. I was just stating that it is possible to shut the whole thing down. As of right now, I can't see Hulas doing that. He'd lose way too much money. I don't know if GoJetS is self sustainable right now and/or if it's making enough money to offset the losses Hulas would incur from shutting down TSA. In addition, I don't know if GoJetS would have the credit to get the new aircraft it wants without TSA's cash. Obviously nobody knows what will happen but we all should be aware that anything could happen.

Not sure if that comment about taking interest in my airline was directed at me or not but I do take interest. I listen in on the conference calls whenever I'm available and try to keep up on all the current events. Though a recall is far off at best, it would be unwise of me not to follow what happens at TSA so that I can make a good decision on whether to accept the recall or not.

Atreyu
06-08-2009, 02:45 PM
So Trans States turned into an LLC

Trans States Inc is now known as Trans States......



When a business reaches a certain point, some may wonder if it is wise to change from a sole proprietorship to an LLC. Of course, there are a huge number of benefits to forming an LLC vs. maintaining a sole proprietorship or launching an S Corporation.

Then again, there are a few minor disadvantages. This is why it is important to clearly examine the various pros and cons associated with forming an LLC.

Above all, the main advantage of forming an LLC is that personal assets remain protected. The debts and liabilities of an LLC belong to the LLC and are not attached directly to the individual members.

This is a major positive aspect of an LLC over a sole proprietorship in learning what does LLC mean for your personal asset protection. Simply put, it is economically unwise to have your personal assets at risk whenever you conduct business.

Additionally, LLC's are taxed in a manner similar to a partnership as opposed to the double taxation method imposed on a corporation. That is, with a corporation one will be required to pay business taxes as well as personal taxes. LLC's profits/losses are presented on the individual member's tax returns; the LLC itself does not have to file taxes. This provides a significant monetary savings.

if a member of an LLC passes away or files bankruptcy the LLC is no more. With a corporation, the business entity would still exist even after such situations occurred.

bryris
06-08-2009, 02:59 PM
So Trans States turned into an LLC

Trans States Inc is now known as Trans States......

The airline was likely a C corp before. The LLC structure provides more flexibility. You can choose to be taxed as a corporation or a partnership and gets rid of the need for all the corporate formalities (board meetings and minutes, etc).

All the limited liability stuff remains in place. This seems to be the new trend. I think Chrysler is an LLC actually.

Converting over now was probably advantageous since the downsizing has reduced the activities of the place so much. If I am not mistaken, the transfer requires "selling" everything from the previous corp to the new LLC and recognizing all the tax ramifications.

flynavyj
06-08-2009, 05:38 PM
was speaking to a finance friend of mine quite a while back when TSA went to an LLC. He basically informed me it's most likely for tax purposes than anything related to contract negotiations, and also mentioned that our downsizing might have made it more advantageous to do it. Mention was also made that it seems to be the trend as of right now, and hulie was probably jumping on the band wagon while the pilot group reads to deep into it....Same time, I'd hate to see it really be about something malicious and the pilots to do nothing about it...especially knowing the history of the man, and the company.

Positive_Rate
06-10-2009, 12:37 PM
Preliminary Numbers: 95% YES


Still waiting on total % of pilot group that voted.

bradeku1008
06-10-2009, 12:40 PM
Hope the best for you guys

Copperhed51
06-10-2009, 12:44 PM
Preliminary Numbers: 95% YES


Still waiting on total % of pilot group that voted.


Not that I don't believe you but where'd you get those numbers from?

Positive_Rate
06-10-2009, 12:51 PM
MEC member...an e-mail is forthcoming.

paxhauler85
06-10-2009, 01:02 PM
Preliminary Numbers: 95% YES


Still waiting on total % of pilot group that voted.

That's fantastic. Hopefully the percentage that voted is just as high.

Wish we could have gotten something like that going here at Mesa. There's always next time.

CANAM
06-10-2009, 01:06 PM
I wish you guys all the best, but I think that you'll all be out on your butts very quickly. Hulas may like money, but United doesn't care about Hulas or TSA. Expect to have your UAX contract ripped up and replaced by somebody the next day. UAL has screwed every regional carrier they've ever dealt with. Look at Presidential Airlines, Atlantic Coast, Air Wisconsin (many times), Westair, ect.

atooraya
06-10-2009, 04:03 PM
Expressjet is already on a temp contract.

We'll be gone, expressjet in

skippy
06-10-2009, 06:06 PM
Fellow Pilots,

I know many of you are anxious to know the result of the Strike Authorization Ballot which concluded today. The results were
independently certified and of the eligible Trans States pilots who responded to the strike authorization ballot, nearly 96% authorized
the Trans States MEC to call for a lawful withdrawal of services. An overwhelming majority of pilots have voiced their support for
the negotiating committee and their objective to obtain a fair and equitable contract that meets the expectations of this pilot group.
It also demonstrates to management clearly and loudly our unity and resolve to conclude these negotiations one way or another.

Now more than ever we must remain vigilant in our focus, unwavering in our resolve, knowledgeable about the mediation process, and
informed about our contract negotiations. It is important to remember we have not exhausted all phases of Section 6 negotiations
and a release to self-help has not been granted. However, this vote goes a long way in showing our solidarity in achieving improvements
to our contract that are both deserved and long overdue





recently someone "reported" that a both a small number and a low percentage authorized the strike vote--- Of course this was completely incorrect and inaccurate-- ( maybe mgmt posted this) it only adds cohesion to an already ****ed off pilot group.

Anyway , just wanted to get the FACTS out.



SKIPPY--- honest and the straight shooter

flyinaway411
06-10-2009, 06:40 PM
i really wish to know what percentage voted...kind of makes me wonder since they are not releasing that number.:confused: still a positive result regardless.



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