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Dune
07-02-2009, 11:58 PM
Sent to those in the pool yesterday:

Over the past few weeks we have been offering course dates to some of the candidates in the ‘hold pool’ to fill courses that have been confirmed for August and September this year. These course allocations have now been finalised.

At this stage we do not have any further courses confirmed for the remainder of the calendar year. By the end of this year, those of you that attended our selection process in June 2008 or earlier will have been in the ‘hold pool’ for longer than 18 months. As 18 months is the maximum validity period for candidates to remain in our ‘hold pool’ we would therefore no longer be able to keep your file active for consideration against future courses. This is due to the possibility that a candidate’s flying and personal circumstances may have changed over this time frame and the requirement we have to validate again a candidate’s continued suitability for employment.

We are therefore now in a position where, if we do not confirm any more course dates this calendar year, we would need to invite candidates who pass beyond the 18 month time period back to Dubai to complete our selection process again. We therefore request you to respond to us please over the next two weeks if you would like to be considered for re-inviting back for the selection process in Dubai in order to remain valid in our ‘hold pool’.

Some things we would like you to consider in making this decision are listed below:

• We may, depending on your previous assessments through our process, modify or reduce certain stages of the selection programme that you would be required to do in Dubai.

• Even though you have been successful in the past in our selection process, this does not automatically guarantee that you will be successful again.

• Due to the current economic situation and our need to contain costs as much as we can to ensure the continued success of our Airline, you would be responsible for arranging and funding your own flights to Dubai to attend our selection process. We would provide you with hotel accommodation and meals whilst here as per your first assessment process.

• If you are successful, you will again be placed in our ‘hold pool’ from which we will continue to draw candidates to allocate to courses as they become confirmed. Your status in our ‘hold pool’ would then be valid for a further period of 12 – 18 months.

• It is important to keep in mind that Emirates still has many new aircraft arriving as part of our ongoing expansion plans, including up to 20 new wide-bodied jets in the next 12 months. Therefore our requirement for pilots going forward will be significant. For this reason we do hope you will remain interested in Emirates and we are very mindful that you have been patient, which we thank you for.

Please note that for the foreseeable future we do not anticipate the need to be employing DEC's and therefore if you continue to be interested in a position with Emirates, you would need to be applying as an FO.

In addition we have also been advised by Fleet to a change to our minimum requirements for direct entry FO's. All FO's must now have jet experience on a multi-engine Jet with a MTOW of over 55 Tonne. Based on this new minimum criteria we will not be considering further candidates with experience on smaller aircraft types. This also means we will no longer be considering those candidates already in our hold pool who fall short of the new minimum experience criteria.

We will be sending you an email on Monday following this update, asking you to respond to us in regards to confirming your interest in being considered further.


TonyWilliams
07-03-2009, 12:25 AM
In addition we have also been advised by Fleet to a change to our minimum requirements for direct entry FO's. All FO's must now have jet experience on a multi-engine Jet with a MTOW of over 55 Tonne. Based on this new minimum criteria we will not be considering further candidates with experience on smaller aircraft types. This also means we will no longer be considering those candidates already in our hold pool who fall short of the new minimum experience criteria.



I'm told that CRJ candidates did quite poorly overall in training compared to those who had "real" jet experience. This weight also excludes early B737's however.

myoface
07-03-2009, 01:43 AM
I love it....we kick you out of the pool, if you want to re-interview you have to buy a ticket out here on your own, but "we do hope you will remain interested in Emirates". Gotta love this industry!!!


jet320
07-03-2009, 02:26 AM
It is important to keep in mind that Emirates still has many new aircraft arriving as part of our ongoing expansion plans, including up to 20 new wide-bodied jets in the next 12 months. Therefore our requirement for pilots going forward will be significant.

So why don't let you guys swim a little longer?

767200
07-03-2009, 07:40 AM
I'm told that CRJ candidates did quite poorly overall in training compared to those who had "real" jet experience. This weight also excludes early B737's however.

That's what SOME TRIs/TREs would like to think. The reality is that for the most part, there was little or no training (more like "checking"...) and "top quality" courses like Cockpit for You which was a total disaster....

PS: ...And yes I was a former RJ skipper and no I did not fail or required extra training...

captjns
07-03-2009, 08:20 AM
There are alot better places on the planet than that part of the world when you consider their current econmic situation, quality of life, respect for the western folk.

SkiBum112
07-03-2009, 10:27 AM
What a kick to the head...sorry to hear guys

SkiBum112
07-03-2009, 10:41 AM
Doesn't exclude all early 737s. Only the 200 classics

Zapata
07-03-2009, 05:05 PM
It is important to keep in mind that Emirates still has many new aircraft arriving as part of our ongoing expansion plans, including up to 20 new wide-bodied jets in the next 12 months. Therefore our requirement for pilots going forward will be significant.

So why don't let you guys swim a little longer?

I believe that your question was already answered. Here it is again;

This is due to the possibility that a candidate’s flying and personal circumstances may have changed over this time frame and the requirement we have to validate again a candidate’s continued suitability for employment.

I know this is a disappointment for those in the pool. However, this is perfectly sound reasoning on Emirates' part.

AirbusA320
07-04-2009, 07:29 AM
Any feedback on why some of the CRJ guys had trouble? Was it the flying or systems knowledge? In my opionion, Airbus fly-by-wire makes the space shuttle look like kid's stuff.

Blueridger
07-04-2009, 07:30 AM
There is little sound reasoning when you throw in the fact that EK will no longer accomodate your travels to Dubai.


Let's see: Congratulations, you did great on your interview! You're hired. Oh wait, it's been 18 months so buy yourself a ticket to get your @ss back here so we can have another chance at saying NO!

Not worth it in the least if you ask me. Besides, read up on the economic meltdown of Dubai before you head out there. That place is in worse shape than we are!

captjns
07-04-2009, 08:12 AM
Besides, read up on the economic meltdown of Dubai before you head out there. That place is in worse shape than we are!

Not when you read Sheik Mohammad's perfectly scripted interview concerning the safe financial state of his gem of the Middle East:rolleyes::D;).

Fred Flintstone
07-04-2009, 08:24 AM
This is pretty ironic. I'm a bus skipper and a former CRJ skipper. The bus is much easier to fly with the auto thrust, normal law and such. It does take a bit to learn the laws and the backwards MCDU, but actually flying it is cake compared to the CRJ.

My FO on a recent trip "escaped" from EK, saying it was not a good place to be, especially in the 330, doing night turns to India without end. He is happy to be back in the USA.

He was a former ERJ skipper. Flew the bus quite well.

AirWillie
07-04-2009, 04:45 PM
How many applicants actually go to EK with just RJ experience, I'm thinking it's mostly US pilots since the 737/A320 is the RJ of the rest of the world. Hmm........... a conspiracy?? Minus the absence of RNAV and AT, a CRJ and ERJ systems are the same as any other widebody airplane. I would buy "wide body or INT" experience but to exlude RJ pilots is BS.

the turtle
07-05-2009, 03:56 AM
No info. Baseless rumor. Some people here (very few) don't like Americans, and will spread whatever ill-will they can find.

dundem
07-05-2009, 03:58 AM
IMO, EK changed the mins because they could. They currently have plenty of applicants that meet their new (totally random) requirements and they believe they will be able to meet their staffing needs that way.

As a former ERJ and current Airbus F/O, there are very few differences operationally. As a matter of fact, I think Embraer 'borrowed' much of their design philosophy from Airbus including the FMS. What I'm saying is the smaller ERJ was so similar that I think EK is full of it for using that as an excuse.

I am speculating now, but I believe a bigger issue may have been the format of the training. I am currently flying outside of the US (again) and the training- (manuals/captains/department) is far different than in the US. Technical knowledge is highly valued and much less emphasis placed on experience and aircraft handling. Their way is the ONLY way to do things and if you deviate even slightly, i.e. XYZ 123 on the missed vs. XYZ 123 on the missed approach, it's a debrief item.

It may be a huge disappointment to some right now, but I believe in a few years those that were slighted may be better off staying closer to home. The adjustment to the desert climate is the smallest adjustment you would’ve had to make.

III Corps
07-05-2009, 05:15 AM
That's what SOME TRIs/TREs would like to think. The reality is that for the most part, there was little or no training (more like "checking"...) and "top quality" courses like Cockpit for You which was a total disaster....


What is/was Cockpit for You?

DYNASTY HVY
07-05-2009, 05:23 AM
Bound to happen sooner or later.

Fred

TPROP4ever
07-05-2009, 07:48 PM
honestly Im not sure this is the worst thing for you guys, Im not sure that they wont be in BK proceedings soon. I actually thought it might be cool to live and work there some day, not so much now

fallujahff
07-05-2009, 10:00 PM
Dubai is a cesspool---

You guys are not missing much--

SheikhItBaby
07-06-2009, 05:26 AM
Dubai is a cesspool---

You guys are not missing much--
Exactly. Forget this place and move on. All that glitters is NOT gold. They change our contract and T's/C's with a change in wind direction and there ain't nothing we can do about it.

EK USED to be the premiere job in the ME. They are rocketing to the bottom...of any carrier anywhere.

fatbus
07-07-2009, 04:52 AM
please name the carriers in the Mid East that are better than EK ? remember that FD just started B scale, QR dont think so, EY - have you talked to anyone from there ? I have , not pretty. EK might be the best of the worst, you dont know if AAR is going to fire you or not every day

EK is a contract job always has been always will be, if you keep that in mind it might help with making up your mind to come or not. That in mind a backup plan may be wise.

Been here 8 years flying has been good cant wait for the chance to get out. You need to be here to believe it, Dubai is not going out of business anytime soon.
But upgrade s , dont even make that a part of your plan , its going to be 8-10 years

Fearless Leader
07-15-2009, 11:59 AM
please name the carriers in the Mid East that are better than EK ? remember that FD just started B scale, QR dont think so, EY - have you talked to anyone from there ? I have , not pretty. EK might be the best of the worst, you dont know if AAR is going to fire you or not every day

EK is a contract job always has been always will be, if you keep that in mind it might help with making up your mind to come or not. That in mind a backup plan may be wise.

Been here 8 years flying has been good cant wait for the chance to get out. You need to be here to believe it, Dubai is not going out of business anytime soon.
But upgrade s , dont even make that a part of your plan , its going to be 8-10 years

Who is FD?

Rook
07-15-2009, 03:38 PM
Prob'ly FlyDubai

captjns
07-16-2009, 05:18 AM
FlyDubai??? BOTTOM FEEDERS AND LIARS

fatbus
07-17-2009, 05:10 AM
what did they lie about, curious thats all

captjns
07-17-2009, 03:24 PM
what did they lie about, curious thats all

My experience with Flydubai goes back to last summer to when I interviewed with them last October. The experience started out very nice. Good communications up to the interview. Business Class Travel to and from DBX. Decent hotel with breakfast included. Transfers to and from the hotel, interview facility, and medical facility. During the few days there I met pilots from AirTran, Delta, UAL and Aloha. I do know, from e-mails, that a number of potential initial cadre crews did not accept the job offer because of inconsistencies relating to information in the T & C's outlined in their original offering, presentations by HR and executives during the actual interview, and formal contract that would have been executed. Not a good way to enter into a long term relationship.


The terms and conditions were e-mailed prior attending a short list interview for initial cadre check airmen and captains were quite generous for a start up.

There was no reference to a $25,000 training bond in their original offering. They informed us about the bond during their presentation. I told them that as a current and qualified NG check pilot that particular provision was a show stopper for me. The other lads balked at this too.

The e-mail stated that flight pay was guaranteed on an 80 hour month guaranty. In the interview they stated that this is what we could earn if we flew 80 hours a month and the exclusion of the term "IF YOU FLY 80 HOURS" was omitted by error.

Medical benefits outlined in the e-mail were far more generous than actual as presented at the meeting.

It was decided that no retirement benefits would be offered at the current.

Let me put it to you this way... I would not have wasted my time had they been honest with their T & C's.

Flydubai halted interviews shortly after I interviewed with them. Some former colleagues I flew with at my current company went to Flydubai, and feel at this time they are more forthright about their T&Cs and may have compromised on some issues since the time of my interview last October.
I would like to know how life is at Flydubai as to whether or not they are living up to their current commitments for their work force.

In any event I do wish those and their families who made the jump to Flydubai good luck and realize there are opportunities for expats elsewhere if the program does not pan out.

flyboy8272
08-22-2009, 07:45 AM
Fly Dubai would be a bad deal here, let alone moving your family overseas for it! Ken Gile is part of the management team there... enough said. He's the guy who left southwest to help start Skybus - and lied through his teeth there, too. Nothing but one-way relationships, broken promises, and poor management desicions. (Maybe that's why he went half way around the world to stay in the aviation business!!)

As for the Emirates, i don't know how they can ask interviewees to pay thousands for a ticket when they could just stick them in an empty seat. (PLEASE don't give me the 'because they can' or 'because there are too many pilots willing to do it' lines; are we heading back to the pay for your own training days??!! I'm strictly talking ethics and the fact it doesn't cost them hardly anything if there are empty seats!!) I think i'd also request/require a free ticket for my wife too since she would understandably need to see things for herself to help make that large decision! That's a very large "red flag" for the airline, hopefully not for the whole industry.

SheikhItBaby
08-22-2009, 10:01 AM
As for the Emirates, i don't know how they can ask interviewees to pay thousands for a ticket when they could just stick them in an empty seat.

Actually, that was the case for many years. When I went to interview, I had to buy my own ticket. It was only in the past couple of years that they started buying tickets.

atpcliff
08-22-2009, 10:45 AM
Hi!

Dubai is a "cesspool"? I think that means it is completely terrible, like being in a prisoner-of-war camp.

I know 2 guys there, and they both say it is very nice. I was in a simulated prisoner-of-war camp, and it was not very nice.

I really don't understand how ANYONE could think Dubai was a cesspool, unless they were living on some planet I have never heard of.

I do understand how someone could prefer to live somewhere else than Dubai, but a cesspool? Maybe they confused Dubai with some not very nice third-world city, like Kinshasa, or something like that...Ulan Bator???

cliff
NBO

johnso29
08-22-2009, 02:11 PM
How many applicants actually go to EK with just RJ experience, I'm thinking it's mostly US pilots since the 737/A320 is the RJ of the rest of the world. Hmm........... a conspiracy?? Minus the absence of RNAV and AT, a CRJ and ERJ systems are the same as any other widebody airplane. I would buy "wide body or INT" experience but to exlude RJ pilots is BS.

I thought the RJ was the RJ for the rest of the world. Ya know, that's why there is hiring for CRJ200/700/900's & EMB-145/175's all over the world.

Plus, I don't of ANY RJ's that DON'T have RNAV capabilities. :confused:

bcrosier
08-22-2009, 02:33 PM
Actually, that was the case for many years. When I went to interview, I had to buy my own ticket. It was only in the past couple of years that they started buying tickets.

That doesn't mean it's right. It's a cost of doing business - you want me to fly halfway around the world, you should provide a seat on your aircraft to get me there. That's really not too much to ask. I don't care how they did if for years, show some respect for the people you might like to hire instead of putting an undue burden on their back.

Kenny
08-22-2009, 03:58 PM
Excluding RJ pilots has nothing really to do with experience and everything to do with attitude and maturity.

If you've been a 121 Captain for even a couple of years, then you'll have dealt with the same [email protected] weather, delays, diversions, trailer park pax, broken aircraft, etc etc, that we all have.

So I'm pretty sure it comes down attitude and maturity. Just look at some of the opinions and views that are expressed on this board.

I'm one of the 50 or so guys supposedly still treading water in the pool and to be honest, with everything that's been going on at EK over the last 6 months, I'm not exactly upset about the way things have turned out.

captjns
08-22-2009, 05:06 PM
Fly Dubai would be a bad deal here, let alone moving your family overseas for it! Ken Gile is part of the management team there... enough said. He's the guy who left southwest to help start Skybus - and lied through his teeth there, too. Nothing but one-way relationships, broken promises, and poor management desicions. (Maybe that's why he went half way around the world to stay in the aviation business!!)

Well said... A couple of guys who left the civilized life of Western Europe want out and back with thier prior. Unfortunately... no chance in he!! of that happening. So they are left with an effective loss of over 50% pay based on lies and broken promises. Good luck to the dillusionals at FlyDubai.;)

The Dominican
08-23-2009, 12:20 AM
Everything in this business is based on supply and demand, there are simply too many experienced pilots out there looking for jobs right now and I believe that the rumors are just that, rumors. I don't have any insiders view of training in EK but judging by the success rate here at AJV/AJX I suspect that RJ pilots didn't do any worst than any other pilot. This economical downturn will recuperate sooner rather than later and you will see not only RJ pilots hired again but also DEC's hired again from the regionals. In the upswing they will hire anyone with a pulse.

McCroskey
08-23-2009, 12:55 PM
Well said Dominican