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View Full Version : Any COPA news?


Theonemarine
11-21-2009, 02:36 PM
Curious if anyone has hard if COPA has started hiring again. Their website in English now has a new email address to send application packets as well as the new requirements in detail to be hired. I'm puerto rican and fluent in Spanish and would love to work there. Any new news would be appreciated.


MoonFallsDown
11-21-2009, 09:37 PM
i was told LAN started hiring.

Bri85
11-21-2009, 10:43 PM
From what Ive read on the Spanish speaking forums about Copa, Is that is pretty staffed with a good amount of young Captains. and pretty much giving priority to those with Panamanian citizenship and certificates. Also alot of speculation about hiring next year since they are receiving new planes. Other than that not much info.


jet320
11-23-2009, 02:30 PM
Curious if anyone has hard if COPA has started hiring again. Their website in English now has a new email address to send application packets as well as the new requirements in detail to be hired. I'm puerto rican and fluent in Spanish and would love to work there. Any new news would be appreciated.

From a Captain that went with me to an interview recently in the MENA region, is that EXPATS are heading out. NO MAS, NO MORE everybody will have the same salary. no benefits.

cruiseclimb
11-25-2009, 11:13 PM
I was told when COPA does take expats, it's Captains only. For what they pay and the hours they work, there are better opportunities in Asia and Mena... unless living in Panama is your goal. Then you could probably commute, live in Panama as an expat, have more money and more time off.

Meerkat
12-01-2009, 03:10 PM
Guys, Does anyone knows their pay rates for FOs, and schedule for commuters....THKS

Lou Reed
12-02-2009, 01:16 PM
MENA??? Is that right, COPA doesn't offer benefits?? That doesn't sound right....



From a Captain that went with me to an interview recently in the MENA region, is that EXPATS are heading out. NO MAS, NO MORE everybody will have the same salary. no benefits.

jet320
12-03-2009, 01:02 AM
and what do you consider benefits? because all my friends from COPA are heading out!

captjns
12-03-2009, 05:36 AM
Former COPA guys as Ryanair, KAL, and various carriers in China. Better pay and benefits, with commuting privileges.

Lou Reed
12-04-2009, 02:16 PM
just the basics, health/retirement......I'm not arguing with you, just sounds terrible if they're not gettin any!

and what do you consider benefits? because all my friends from COPA are heading out!

jet320
12-05-2009, 07:07 AM
just the basics, health/retirement......I'm not arguing with you, just sounds terrible if they're not gettin any!


When I flew for TACA (LACSA in Costa Rica) we where the highest paid pilots in the region. As a Cap I was earning $5200 monthly including the perdiem. That's flying 85 h/s montly with no transportion or housing allowance. AIG health care, and no retirement plans by the company, only SS from the CR Gov. around $300 montly deducted.

COPA recently decided to cancelled future expats hiring. An remove all foreign contracts.

freezingflyboy
12-05-2009, 12:53 PM
When I flew for TACA (LACSA in Costa Rica) we where the highest paid pilots in the region. As a Cap I was earning $5200 monthly including the perdiem. That's flying 85 h/s montly with no transportion or housing allowance. AIG health care, and no retirement plans by the company, only SS from the CR Gov. around $300 montly deducted.

COPA recently decided to cancelled future expats hiring. An remove all foreign contracts.

WOW!!! And I thought things were bad at the US regionals!:eek: I'm guessing you were an airbus skipper?

poorpilot
12-28-2009, 07:18 PM
I think it's a bit premature to say that COPA isn't hiring anymore expats. The hiring seems to have ceased due to some new restrictions due to the Gov't but that's about it. As I've mentioned in the past the pay isn't way up there but it's secure, and it's enough to get you by and then some. The concept of commuting at COPA isn't exactly "commuting", I mean you can commute but it's getting difficult due to the schedules and day-off requests. And the benefits are still around and more than likely will be around for as long as theres a need for expats. There are almost 13 new 737-800 coming and I not sure they are going to be a able to squeeze out of the 3,360,474panamanians the 200+ pilots they need in time. It's simple, Supply and Demand. I guess we'll just have to see what happens.

captjns
12-29-2009, 04:11 AM
I think it's a bit premature to say that COPA isn't hiring anymore expats.

Dead nuts on!


The hiring seems to have ceased due to some new restrictions due to the Gov't but that's about it.

Direct from the horse's mouth sort to say... A Copa TRE in our group, interviewing with a carrier overseas said they are awaiting delivery of a dozen NGs. To economize, no contracts will be issued to either nationals or expats until delivery dates, and routes are set up for each aircraft.

Very low pay and very poor benefits provided by Copa to new crewmembers.

I gave line training to former Copa crews going back 5 years ago. The Diaspora from Copa before then for the above reason.

poorpilot
01-04-2010, 03:28 PM
Ok it's official, Copa began it's hiring process once again. Unfortunately for right now it's just Nationals. I'll find-out when the class for ex-pat FOs and CAs is gonna be.

Smash312
01-25-2010, 10:13 AM
Any word on if Expat FO's (non-spanish speaking) are being hired at the moment? Met a COPA crew in the van in IAD last night. The skipper said they were, but just want to hear it again.... anyone?

Thanks.

GoME
01-29-2010, 01:37 PM
It is a pity that foreign pilots are discriminated by the Panamanian pilots union. That's why many are leaving to other countries.:mad:

mexipilot84
01-29-2010, 05:19 PM
Poorpilot is it even worth putting in your resume and application? My g/f is panamanian and can give me the right plug for necessary immigration requirements. But I see 1000hrs for foreign pilots and lower for Panamanian pilots. How stiff is competition here? New expats i assume start out on the 190? I am trying in Mexico as well for Aeromexico Connect and Click Mexicana, but competition is fierce and so are all the hurdles the government keeps throwing in for pilots. I hope COPA can be good opportunity.

poorpilot
02-02-2010, 07:02 AM
It's worth a shot if you can deal with the BS. You've surely read about the pros and cons of flying at Copa. They'll be needing lot's of people in the next couple of years just keep your CV updated and your flight time will only matter depending on how desperate they are. When you're hired they seperate the classes for the aircraft depending on demand. You have greater probabilities of flying the Boeing since the E-190s are being fased out and more 800 are coming. I would honestly say that you are going to have to deal with less BS in Panama than in Mexico. And frankly, I feel that your going to have better quality of life in PTY.

Theonemarine
02-08-2010, 09:01 AM
Poorpilot,
It won't allow me to respond to your email because your email box is full. Please let me know when you make space so I can send you the PM with some info. Thanks!

cubanfiredawg
02-17-2010, 09:50 AM
Hello Everyone,

I'm not sure of what beni's COPA has, but I can confirm they will be hiring. Just today I received an email from HR requesting that I confirm my total flight times. They went on to say that if they are correct that I can expect an interview date very soon in the US.
I am considered and expat, but my father was born in Panama. I've spent a lot of time in the country, and have traveled and lived in a lot of cities around the world. Panama is very nice. If you live in Panama City it is very European. The country side is beautiful, and people are friendly. I am sure that the beni's are not as good as a major carriers, but hey... it's central America, and it beats sitting at home watching the logbook collect dust. Beautiful people, cheap beer, and great beaches. Sounds like a great place to wait it out until the 65 rule guys start retiring in the next 18 months... I'll post more as I go through the process. And it does sound like they are looking to hire for the 73 NG's. I too have heard that they are going to begin retiring the RJ's.....
Feel free to PM me with any other questions or email me @ [email protected]

Ciao:cool:

gilz16
03-08-2010, 03:09 PM
hello! is it true the minimums are 1000TT? (which I dont really have right now...) a job with COPA would be perfect for me since I have family in Costa Rica :)

atpcliff
03-08-2010, 04:31 PM
Hi!

Sorry, I know almost 0 about COPA or what flying for them is like.

Any info would be a great help to me!

cliff
NBO

jet320
03-08-2010, 08:24 PM
hello! is it true the minimums are 1000TT? (which I dont really have right now...) a job with COPA would be perfect for me since I have family in Costa Rica :)


Then apply to LACSA

gilz16
03-08-2010, 08:44 PM
Then apply to LACSA

100% dead hiring. They are not planning on hiring and if they were to hire it would be for the C-208 not a 737NG.
+quality of life, etc....

jet320
03-09-2010, 05:54 AM
100% dead hiring. They are not planning on hiring and if they were to hire it would be for the C-208 not a 737NG.
+quality of life, etc....


Gliz16 I really hate doing this but COPA recently didn't hired 3 Captains from Costa Rica. The youngest one of them has 9000 TT the older one 23500 TT I truly believe they are looking for Panamanian pilots. If you want, send me PM and I will send you Q/A summary.

Cheers

P.S Captain Upgraded in LACSA is running in about 3 years after you join the Jet fleet.

gilz16
03-09-2010, 04:49 PM
yes thank you! I am new here and I dont know how to PM.... but you can write me to [email protected]

anthrfrlodguy
03-12-2010, 03:12 AM
I don't have any ties to Panama or any latin american countries, but I do have more than enough time for their requirements. Could anyone give me an idea of my chances. I sent in all my stuff to them and received an email saying that they got it and I should hear something shortly. I don't know if this is there way of politely saying thanks but no thanks or is it legit.

cubanfiredawg
03-12-2010, 06:42 PM
Ok... email. It's official, COPA is interviewing expats. I just received an email from HR asking me to come to Panama March 19th to start the selection process. From what I hear it is rather lengthy. Up to two weeks. They did give me the option to do part of the interview, then return in April to finish. I am going to bite the bullet and stay through the whole thing. Don't want to miss out on the opportunity. Especially in these times. Feel free to PM me or email me at the address in my prior with any questions you may have. I'll keep everyone posted as I continue along their selection process. Best of luck to anyone else who's in the running!

Ciao

Sioux115
03-15-2010, 04:22 PM
Hey anthrfrlodguy,
Was it an automated response, or an actual email from pilot recruitment?

anthrfrlodguy
03-15-2010, 07:27 PM
Hey anthrfrlodguy,
Was it an automated response, or an actual email from pilot recruitment?

It said that it was from the chief pilots office.

capto
03-16-2010, 09:26 AM
anyone has any info on pay and QOL at copa?

wareagle07
04-03-2010, 07:06 PM
Ok... email. It's official, COPA is interviewing expats. I just received an email from HR asking me to come to Panama March 19th to start the selection process. From what I hear it is rather lengthy. Up to two weeks. They did give me the option to do part of the interview, then return in April to finish. I am going to bite the bullet and stay through the whole thing. Don't want to miss out on the opportunity. Especially in these times. Feel free to PM me or email me at the address in my prior with any questions you may have. I'll keep everyone posted as I continue along their selection process. Best of luck to anyone else who's in the running!

Ciao


How's it going so far?

captchrisL
06-22-2010, 04:59 AM
Who's your copilot? I heard that their bridge pilot program are the pilots that will be the captain's sim partners. They supposedly have anywhere from 250-500 hours.

Got this link for info:

Copa Airlines announces ?Bridge Program? (http://www.copaair.com/sites/pa/en/noticias/pages/copa_airlines_anuncia_programa_puente.aspx)

OtisA300f
06-23-2010, 04:15 PM
Got an email back from Mrs. Henriquez a few weeks ago. She said I should expect a call in July to start the recruitment process. Any ideas what to expect? Interview gouge? Any way, thanks for any useful info...

Petethedog
06-23-2010, 05:13 PM
Otis,
Best of luck with the interview! Could you help us other guys who are keenly interested in COPA with a little info. The basics (TT, 121 experience, connection to/experience with Latin America) and any other tips would be appreciated (contacts, any possible x-factor type stuff). I applied there last month for FO slot (ATP, 3400hrs, 500 ME, 350 TPIC) and have heard nada and would positively jump at the opportunity. Thanks! Good Luck...

OtisA300f
06-25-2010, 04:14 AM
My hours are close to yours (lower TT) but had several internal recs plus married to a latina. Not sure if that helped though ;) I applied earlier in the year. Will pass anything along as I get it..Good luck!

Petethedog
06-25-2010, 08:10 AM
Thanks for the input Otis. Indeed, sounds like you have some x-factor stuff going for you. Working on getting married to a Latina myself:). Are you fluent in Spanish as well? Did it take awhile to hear back after sending in your stuff? Sounds like a great opportunity over there... Good luck! Keep us posted....

BARRELL RIDER
06-29-2010, 07:20 PM
I'm trying to apply to Copa. On the website it says to email you're transcripts, letter from the FAA saying no accidents, last page of your logbook, passport, recommendation letters, etc. As I have no scanner this will be hard. Did any of you email all of this stuff as an attachment and if so how did you go about it. It would be easier to use the regular mail. Any info would be great. How long did it take to get that letter from the FAA.

Petethedog
06-29-2010, 07:38 PM
I'm trying to apply to Copa. On the website it says to email you're transcripts, letter from the FAA saying no accidents, last page of your logbook, passport, recommendation letters, etc. As I have no scanner this will be hard. Did any of you email all of this stuff as an attachment and if so how did you go about it. It would be easier to use the regular mail. Any info would be great. How long did it take to get that letter from the FAA.

I emailed all the info via PDF. I know they recieved it, but that is all I have heard as of yet. Sent you a PM about the FAA letter.

skygus
06-30-2010, 12:55 PM
After all the talk. Does anyone know the "Pay rate" for First-officer?

atpcliff
06-30-2010, 02:11 PM
Hi!

BR: Go to a Kinkos/Office Depot/Max, or something like that, will all your **** and a USB drive. They will scan it all, digitize it for you, and but it on your usb drive. Then, upload it to your computer and home, and send it. It makes it TONS easier to apply for jobs when you have all your stuff digital.

cliff
LFW

GoME
07-06-2010, 07:23 AM
The new pilots who enter Copa Airlines will begin flying the E-190. The actual E-190 pilots will made the B737 Transition.

BeardedFlyer
09-13-2011, 07:58 PM
I know this thread has been dormant for a while now but did any of you with the interviews end up making it to the line at COPA?

XCHECK
09-21-2011, 08:18 PM
Copa has been recruiting Captains in several Latin American Countries....

5000h tt.
1000h aircraft 50+ seats.

The Dominican
09-21-2011, 08:47 PM
Copa has been recruiting Captains in several Latin American Countries....

5000h tt.
1000h aircraft 50+ seats.

With the pathetic terms and conditions and the high attrition rate, it is not surprising that they are in continuous hiring mode:rolleyes:

BeardedFlyer
09-22-2011, 04:46 PM
Yes, the pay and conditions are not very good but since they're hiring expat FO's with the sole min of 1000tt (no multi min) would you recommend this to a single guy in his 20's looking for a way to bypass the regionals?

Does anyone have any idea how long it takes for a US expat to make capt? I've read it's 4-5 yrs. Anyone know if this is still accurate? It seems to me like if a guy can hack out 5-6 years down there, get some PIC on a 737 then he would be a prime candidate for any major back in the US.

I sent them an email about the application process and they replied the very next day; I was astonished how eager they were to get back to an under-qualified, 400hr TT peon like myself. I'm sending in an app as soon as I hit 500tt. I figure it's worth a try since they are so "desperate."

Why aren't 1000 hr CFIs, aerial mapping pilots, 135 freight dogs, etc in the US jumping all over this? What am I missing here?

captjns
09-23-2011, 12:02 AM
Why aren't 1000 hr CFIs, aerial mapping pilots, 135 freight dogs, etc in the US jumping all over this? What am I missing here?

Perhaps they have more self respect for themseves, and the profession... rather than those in the industry who have a complete lack of respect for their fellow colleagues who are trying to improve terms and conditions offered by prospective airlines.

Those who accept lower pay, terms and conditions are just adding to the problem rather than the solution of low pay and benefits.

XCHECK
09-23-2011, 11:31 AM
I sent them an email about the application process and they replied the very next day; I was astonished how eager they were to get back to an under-qualified, 400hr TT peon like myself. I'm sending in an app as soon as I hit 500tt. I figure it's worth a try since they are so "desperate."



From what i hear its after that reply, that things take a while. As you said its worth applying even though they have been really tight about those 1000TT.

BeardedFlyer
09-24-2011, 05:22 PM
Perhaps they have more self respect for themseves, and the profession... rather than those in the industry who have a complete lack of respect for their fellow colleagues who are trying to improve terms and conditions offered by prospective airlines.

Those who accept lower pay, terms and conditions are just adding to the problem rather than the solution of low pay and benefits.

I understand what you're saying and I almost agree with you. If I had times and qualifications that were competitive with the average 737 FO applicant; 4000TT, 1000 twin turbine PIC, 5 years of 121 experience ect., there is no way I would consider a place like COPA. But as a new commercial pilot just starting out in this business with flight times that are barely competitive to tow a banner I'll take what I can get, and if I can get right seat in a 737 should I really turn it down because you say I'm worth more?

If pilot demand was high and quality airlines were struggling to find applicants then sure, I would consider myself worth much more, but the pilot pool is flooded right now. At this point I'll do what it takes and grab whatever comes my way. When my resume starts looking more like yours probably does I'll be in a more realistic position to pick and choose what terms, pay, and conditions I will and will not accept.

captjns
09-25-2011, 07:38 AM
When my resume starts looking more like yours probably does I'll be in a more realistic position to pick and choose what terms, pay, and conditions I will and will not accept.

I can appreciate the desire to fly an air conditioned, pressurized, radar equipped jet. Consider this that one who accepts low pay along with poor terms and conditions for any job in any industry is doing nothing more than contributing to the problem at hand rather than being part of the solution... thus raising the bar becomes more difficult to accomplish.

You may accept the terms and conditions that COPA is offering at this point. COPA may resolve the issue of pay and benefits for expats.

Don’t be surprised if better pay and benefits will be offered to individuals joining COPA after you. It is not uncommon practice for carriers to offer better terms and conditions to attract new employees. Current employees are usually stuck with their original terms and conditions with very little recource against their airline. Options for those stuck with lower pay, are limited other than resigning their memberships from the club. At the end of the day COPA won’t care if you stay or go because as stated before, there are a zillion guys to fill your seat. Thus one will reap the rewards of being part of the problem rather than being part of the solution.

At the end of the day, one needs to think about the long term effects about the short term decisions made today.

Whatever your desision... good luck with a long and fruitful and fulfilling career.

BeardedFlyer
09-26-2011, 02:26 PM
Consider this that one who accepts low pay along with poor terms and conditions for any job in any industry is doing nothing more than contributing to the problem at hand rather than being part of the solution... thus raising the bar becomes more difficult to accomplish.


Agreed, but with a small correction: one who accepts lower pay then they are worth for any job in any industry is doing nothing more than contributing to the problem...

Set two resumes side by side; one has 1000 C-182 PIC time, the other 1000 twin turbine PIC, which pilot deserves higher pay? Who should be willing to accept lower pay?

I'm not 100% confident in my stance on this one so please feel free to tell me if there is an aspect to this that I'm not seeing but I'm not convinced that a young, low time pilot accepting a 3k a month job to fly a 737 is unethical. As a new commercial pilot would you say that my flight time per hour is worth as much as a 4000hr ATP? How can I demand the same pay as someone with 4x the experience?

The higher my times become the more pay I will demand from an airline. Where am I wrong?

paokgate4
09-26-2011, 04:59 PM
I can appreciate the desire to fly an air conditioned, pressurized, radar equipped jet. Consider this that one who accepts low pay along with poor terms and conditions for any job in any industry is doing nothing more than contributing to the problem at hand rather than being part of the solution... thus raising the bar becomes more difficult to accomplish.

You may accept the terms and conditions that COPA is offering at this point. COPA may resolve the issue of pay and benefits for expats.

Don’t be surprised if better pay and benefits will be offered to individuals joining COPA after you. It is not uncommon practice for carriers to offer better terms and conditions to attract new employees. Current employees are usually stuck with their original terms and conditions with very little recource against their airline. Options for those stuck with lower pay, are limited other than resigning their memberships from the club. At the end of the day COPA won’t care if you stay or go because as stated before, there are a zillion guys to fill your seat. Thus one will reap the rewards of being part of the problem rather than being part of the solution.

At the end of the day, one needs to think about the long term effects about the short term decisions made today.

Whatever your desision... good luck with a long and fruitful and fulfilling career.



Copa has a union for your information. No individual contracts.

captjns
09-27-2011, 12:28 AM
Copa has a union for your information. No individual contracts.

Yes, I'm well aware of that, and one of the reasons for pay and benefits being offered to expats if because of the union.

I had a conversation with a current and former employees (early retirees from American Airlines) and someone from HR, they are trying to resolve issues along those lines to attract qualfied expats.

paokgate4
09-27-2011, 11:25 AM
Yes, I'm well aware of that, and one of the reasons for pay and benefits being offered to expats if because of the union.

I had a conversation with a current and former employees (early retirees from American Airlines) and someone from HR, they are trying to resolve issues along those lines to attract qualfied expats.



locals and expats getting the same payment....expats get 800 dollars housing extra per month for 2 years...thats the only difference.............

in the next contract, next year,,,,all locals and expats WILL get the same pay.......cant pay expats more than locals.....panamanian law
EXPATS PAY TAXES AND UNION DUES AS WELL

chombo
10-01-2011, 10:27 PM
" info"...copa is looking for captains....they are desperate ..the next capt class nov 2011.they only have 3 capt....for nov 2011 >>> they need 17 more. they are working on a new contract .copa current pay is 3,840 per month(63hrs), base salary is paid 13 times per year. per diem( a non taxable)63 hours guaranteed 1,082.00.additional hours above 63 will be paid at a rate of 64.00 averege is 82 hrs(boeng737),... 30 days annual paid vacations. in addition,copa will providea monthly temporary relocation aid of 800.00 for a max of 2 and years. copa will provide hotel and housing during trainning...copa will pay up to 2,500 to process the legal permits of your dependants and you... you want a free type go to copa airlines.

chombo
10-01-2011, 10:32 PM
copa is willing to do anything .... today..due to the lack of qualify pilots in panama. in addition, they will give better lines and better days off to the americans. check it out..........all expat pilots get better treaments... like it or not............let s see how long it will take to management to approve the new contract.......one month or 2 years.....

chombo
10-01-2011, 10:45 PM
what union you are talking about...the wall painting in the back room...are you able to select your lines...and days off..(( what 7 days off per month (currently in copa)) .. if you have a union how come panamenian pilots are flying in the middle east or india....or...

captjns
10-02-2011, 10:22 AM
what union you are talking about...the wall painting in the back room...are you able to select your lines...and days off..(( what 7 days off per month (currently in copa)) .. if you have a union how come panamenian pilots are flying in the middle east or india....or...

Panamanians have left COPA for the likes of Ryanair, Jet Airways, Spice Jet, and not to mention various Chinese carriers. Why one asks??? simple... to receive a respectable wage, benefits, and terms and conditions. It’s a downright same, there are those who still are not concerned about raising the so-called "bar". These individuals are and will continue to be part of the problem … thus the industry in the US and Panama will remain in the cellar until pilots are ready to take a stance and say enough is enough. Come on!!! What happened to one’s self esteem to settle for such abysmal pay, benefits and conditions?

This is a quote from a post in this thread.

”But as a new commercial pilot just starting out in this business with flight times that are barely competitive to tow a banner I'll take what I can get, and if I can get right seat in a 737 should I really turn it down because you say I'm worth more?”

How can the bar ever be raised with the above tenet shared by many others in the same situation?

BeardedFlyer
10-02-2011, 12:58 PM
captnjns,

instead of continuing to bash me and my opinions why can't you answer my questions directly? If you actually read what was in my posts then you would see that I don't disagree with you. I don't think anyone with 5000 hours should be willing to fly for low pay like that. COPA will have to offer more money if they want to attract the kind of applicants they are looking for in the captain's seat.

Since COPA is only looking for captains, our argument is more of a hypothetical one, but relevant nonetheless. If a company wants to lower their pay they must also lower their minimum requirements and consequentially take the risks that come with letting a low time, low experience pilot loose in their shiny new passenger filled jets. From a management perspective, in the long run the risk an airline is taking by scraping the bottom of the barrel is really not worth the money they will save in labor costs but if that is a risk they are willing to take then I'll jump on the opportunity. Then, after I am done using them to build a respectable resume I will move on to a more respectable company.

Although I am sure I am only wasting my time, I will ask you again, WHERE AM I WRONG? WHAT AM I MISSING? Please use your critical thinking skills, if you have any, and point out the holes in my argument. If your points are valid, logical and make enough sense then they may change my opinions. This is how a grown up conversation works. If you really believe individuals like me are the reason the aviation industry in the US and Panama is in the "cellar" than here is your chance to be a hero and make a difference. I'll share your reply with all my other low time pilot friends.

A coherent answer from you would be nice, but not expected.

captjns
10-02-2011, 07:49 PM
WHERE AM I WRONG? WHAT AM I MISSING? Please use your critical thinking skills, if you have any, and point out the holes in my argument. If your points are valid, logical and make enough sense then they may change my opinions. This is how a grown up conversation works. If you really believe individuals like me are the reason the aviation industry in the US and Panama is in the "cellar" than here is your chance to be a hero and make a difference. I'll share your reply with all my other low time pilot friends.


Bearded Flyer….

I do not claim to be a hero, nor can I provide advice to those seeking instant gratification whilst not solving the problem at hand.


Please accept my humble appology if you were offended as it was not directef at you. Your statement in I not unique, but was convenient to cite the thoughts of a typical budding aviator who is ready to move on from flight instructing. Thus no bashing intended.

I have identified the problem, and provided my opinion to the solution to said problem. That's all I can do.

As a side bar, South Korea Aviation University is seeking qualified instructors with an annual salary of 40k… with benefits. Possible foot in the door for other opportunities too. You may wish to look into their program. China has similar job openings too at similar pay. Imagine that… a flight school providing respectable remunerations for professional services rendered. Yes… even a flight instructor. I am curious Bearded Flyer, what is the maximum a flight instructor can earn a major flight school in the US? Anyway… with the money you earn from an expat instructor, while earning a respectable wage for those professional services rendered, a B737, or even an Airbus type rating can be had for a mere pittance. IMHO it’s a better route than the instant gratification by selling your soul to the devil just to get into the right seat of a jet.

At the end of the day Bearded Flyer, you have to follow your instincts and your heart as to the correct path to take without reserve as to treatment by airlines unbecoming a professional in our industry.

All the best and good luck in your endeavors.

captjns

orbits2000
10-03-2011, 05:50 PM
What is the latest for expat FO hiring at COPA? I've read thru pretty much this whole thread...anyhow, the company website and human resource page is not that intuitive to navigate. Thanks for any help.

captjns
10-04-2011, 12:14 AM
What is the latest for expat FO hiring at COPA? I've read thru pretty much this whole thread...anyhow, the company website and human resource page is not that intuitive to navigate. Thanks for any help.

You read it all... Desparate for DEC NG flyboys and flygals. One can do a great deal better in the Middle East, China, Korea and yes...:eek: some carriers in India. Lion Air of Indonesia is one carrier to avoid like the plague.

All the best.

paokgate4
10-04-2011, 02:29 PM
You read it all... Desparate for DEC NG flyboys and flygals. One can do a great deal better in the Middle East, China, Korea and yes...:eek: some carriers in India. Lion Air of Indonesia is one carrier to avoid like the plague.

All the best.



Have you flown in India, China Indonesia, sand pit etc?

Do you know first hand the working conditions there?......

If so please tell us the good points

paokgate4
10-04-2011, 02:30 PM
What is the latest for expat FO hiring at COPA? I've read thru pretty much this whole thread...anyhow, the company website and human resource page is not that intuitive to navigate. Thanks for any help.




Not hiring first Officer at this time I was told by friends there

Just Captains

chombo
10-08-2011, 10:28 PM
Oct 14,2011 and nov 08,2011.
Bring your resume to copa and be ready to take a atp test. For panamenians 250 ttl and for frgn 1000 ttl . Good luck

chombo
10-08-2011, 10:30 PM
40 capt left copa ,looking for better paying jobs overseas. So great opportunities for low time pilot to get jobs in panama.

chombo
10-08-2011, 10:31 PM
Looking for a pilot position. Check copa airlines.

chombo
10-08-2011, 10:33 PM
American airlines will be hiring very soon.

chombo
10-08-2011, 10:34 PM
Lack of pilots in panama already. Usa is next.

chombo
10-08-2011, 10:34 PM
Who can tell me what is going on with taca.

chombo
10-08-2011, 10:35 PM
Who can tell me what is going with lan chile.

jsfBoat
10-13-2011, 10:13 AM
Any idea of how long they take to get back to someone about their resume? I finished the online app up a week or so ago, but I've heard it can take up to 6 months. I would go if I got the call.

chombo
10-16-2011, 09:11 PM
try this number 507- 3042847.

taymor1234
10-16-2011, 11:32 PM
Can anyone shear there interview experience please? Gracias

paokgate4
10-17-2011, 07:21 PM
Can anyone shear there interview experience please? Gracias

couple of my friends who are laid off from the the majors here at us are flying as captains there and they are telling me copa is getting 2 a/c in Nov and 2 in Dec so they should hire more captains.

But I dont know why they turn down over 60%


good luck

Satellite
10-18-2011, 06:40 AM
couple of my friends who are laid off from the the majors here at us are flying as captains there and they are telling me copa is getting 2 a/c in Nov and 2 in Dec so they should hire more captains.

But I dont know why they turn down over 60%


good luck

Do you know how many captains has Copa found for the Nov training class?

Satellite
10-18-2011, 06:59 AM
Lack of pilots in panama already. Usa is next.

Copa was doing interviews lately for the training class in Nov.
Do you know how many captains they finally found for Nov?

Satellite
10-22-2011, 12:26 AM
chombo

Do you have any idea why Copa doesn't hire experienced captains with B-737NG rating and thousands of hours in any jet and instead of that, gets non-rated captains with less hours,flying regional jet?
Copa is still looking for captains,this week they were in Mexico and I don't
know whether they found captains but they are going next week to Canada searching for captains and at the same time they don't hire from the captains who were interviewing this month.They just hired few for the
Nov class.
Give me your opinion.

The Dominican
10-22-2011, 06:03 AM
They know that due to the pathetic pay package, an individual that is looking for a job there with time on type is just using them as a very short term stepping stone, that is why they like to hire people that has less experience because they will stay longer until they get the magic numbers and move on.

Satellite
10-22-2011, 07:52 AM
To Dominican

I agree with your opinion but why do they ask for experienced captains with B-737NG type rating if possible and when they go for the selection process,they get an answer afterwards "No Thanks".
If they want unexperienced captains why don't they ask so?

The Dominican
10-22-2011, 09:24 AM
Oh common! you have been around long enough. When have any company post any information that doesn't depict them as the "industry leaders"? they will present information that places them in the best "light" they will publish phrases like "competitive pay package" "dynamic working environment" If a company presents high standards in their hiring minimums conveys that experienced pilots are the ones that are applying, right? It is all about self advertisement. They are not going to say that we want "pilots with low time" to fly 737's because it shows them as the operation that they really are and not the operation that they would like people to see them as, but at the end of the day they want people that don't carry a resume that after 500 hours on type would open other doors for them, you follow? they want individuals with low hours, no Boeing experience, so that this individuals will feel compelled to stay for a while because they gave them the "chance" to gain that experience, It is a retention policy because their terms & conditions don't invite people to stay.

paokgate4
10-22-2011, 06:19 PM
Oh common! you have been around long enough. When have any company post any information that doesn't depict them as the "industry leaders"? they will present information that places them in the best "light" they will publish phrases like "competitive pay package" "dynamic working environment" If a company presents high standards in their hiring minimums conveys that experienced pilots are the ones that are applying, right? It is all about self advertisement. They are not going to say that we want "pilots with low time" to fly 737's because it shows them as the operation that they really are and not the operation that they would like people to see them as, but at the end of the day they want people that don't carry a resume that after 500 hours on type would open other doors for them, you follow? they want individuals with low hours, no Boeing experience, so that this individuals will feel compelled to stay for a while because they gave them the "chance" to gain that experience, It is a retention policy because their terms & conditions don't invite people to stay.







Copa's new captain pay 125 per hour for 63hrs, 150 per hour thereafter, minimum days off per month 10 and minimum daily credit 4.5 hours.
Perdiem 3 dollars per hour for every hour out of base (TAFB).
30 days vacation per year at base pay 63 hrs and no perdiem.
Bonus 8 weeks or 2 months of pay at base 63 hrs.
Housing 1000 per month for expats, local get 1000 per month on a retirement fund

Are you going back?

The Dominican
10-22-2011, 06:47 PM
I was never interested in COPA, some close friend did work there though. Thank you for posting the new captains pay so as to people can see for themselves how substandard it is

Satellite
10-22-2011, 11:05 PM
Copa's new captain pay 125 per hour for 63hrs, 150 per hour thereafter, minimum days off per month 10 and minimum daily credit 4.5 hours.
Perdiem 3 dollars per hour for every hour out of base (TAFB).
30 days vacation per year at base pay 63 hrs and no perdiem.
Bonus 8 weeks or 2 months of pay at base 63 hrs.
Housing 1000 per month for expats, local get 1000 per month on a retirement fund

Are you going back?

How worst is that or better than the previous one?

The Dominican
10-23-2011, 07:04 AM
How worst is that or better than the previous one?

The salary is $80/H or so, it amounts to about 97K a year and this is extremely substandard for an ex pat job, less in fact that what most turboprop jobs are paying, he is claiming that the salary was raised over 30% so pardon me if I receive this information with a high level of skepticism, I would like another COPA captain to weigh in because that can be nothing but very good for pilots, but I seriously doubt it

captjns
10-23-2011, 07:35 AM
Copa's new captain pay 125 per hour for 63hrs, 150 per hour thereafter, minimum days off per month 10 and minimum daily credit 4.5 hours.
Perdiem 3 dollars per hour for every hour out of base (TAFB).
30 days vacation per year at base pay 63 hrs and no perdiem.
Bonus 8 weeks or 2 months of pay at base 63 hrs.
Housing 1000 per month for expats, local get 1000 per month on a retirement fund

Are you going back?

Is that official, or proposed. Last time I had correspondance with the woman from HR, she told me the pay rate was circa $6000 per month... a weeks back.

Much better paying jobs overseas for NG pilots with housing and taxes paid by the airline to. COPA needs to step up to the plate if they wish to attract qualfied talent.

By the way... ATR and Q400 pilots are making $8,000 per month net of taxes, plus housing allowances too.

paokgate4
10-23-2011, 07:54 AM
I was never interested in COPA, some close friend did work there though. Thank you for posting the new captains pay so as to people can see for themselves how substandard it is




Not official I was told by our gringo friends who got let go from here and took street captain jobs with copa.

if it happens that will be more than UAL A320 captain salary.

paokgate4
10-23-2011, 07:55 AM
Is that official, or proposed. Last time I had correspondance with the woman from HR, she told me the pay rate was circa $6000 per month... a weeks back.

Much better paying jobs overseas for NG pilots with housing and taxes paid by the airline to. COPA needs to step up to the plate if they wish to attract qualfied talent.

By the way... ATR and Q400 pilots are making $8,000 per month net of taxes, plus housing allowances too.




Why talking to the HR woman. Seems like you are bashing copa constantly.

Flying in Asia or sandpit? No thanks.
Less money and in the Americas.

The Dominican
10-23-2011, 11:14 AM
Not official I was told by our gringo friends who got let go from here and took street captain jobs with copa.

You are doing your colleagues and fellow pilots a disservice by posting hearsay as facts, you stated that this was the salary package at Copa and it is not, it is only what has been proposed and from proposal to current salary rates there is a lot of day light in between.

Why talking to the HR woman. Seems like you are bashing copa constantly.

Flying in Asia or sandpit? No thanks.
Less money and in the Americas.

Don't be so sensitive, it is not anything personal or even against Copa per say, if it bothers you we can call it brand X. And my position is that at a time where there is more demand for professional pilots world wide, so much demand in fact that brands Y and Z are paying contract packages worth $18,000/ month and they are paying for your taxes in the host country with commuting options and more time off, brand X pays what regional captains are making in the U.S to fly a 737, this salaries that are allegedly proposed (because it is not confirmed that those are the proposed rates, you heard it in the rumor mill after all) are not really that good either for an ex pat job but it is a little better than what is paid currently. I hope that is the case but it remains to be seen, for the mean time the pay package at brand X sucks, regardless of its geographical location.

Aces
10-23-2011, 01:18 PM
Captain
Monthly
Annual
Salary
3,840.00
46,080.00
UnionPer diem
660.00
7,920.00
13thsalary (Extra month per year)
0
3,840.00
Guaranteed Per diem (63 hrs)
1,082.00
12,984.00
EstimatedPer diem*
1,938.00
21,318.00
Annual ProfitSharing(example 6 wks salary)**
0
5,760.00
Gross Income
7,520.00
97,902.00
Net Income
6,497.90
84,113.50

* Averageof 80 hours per month(in thelastyear). Vacations: 30 daysannualpaid
** Averagelast3 yearswas7 weeks. Annualcompensationbasedin 13 salaries

captjns
10-23-2011, 07:32 PM
Salary still at least 30 percent below international available standards, even with overtime factored into the figures. When one factors in housing and other allowances the disparity increases to about 35 to 40 percent… and that's with commuting contracts available overseas.

Carriers overseas, with the exception of European, offer benefits ranging from but not limited work visa assistance, better housing allowances with minimal out of pocket expense, taxes paid by the employer.

It was mentioned that COPA has either or will be doing road shows in Latin America. A number of pilots from the region have taken jobs in China and the Mid East. True the Mid East contracts are non-commuting ones, but the pay is far better.

Look, if and when COPA becomes desperate enough for qualified crews, they will need to step up to the plate and offer better terms and conditions. However remember… it's a two way street.

The term “Raising the Bar” is still tossed around these threads from time to time. That said, accepting lower pay and terms and conditions will only bolster the airline's position for poor terms and conditions. The issue will be prolonged it relates to acceptable pay, terms and conditions, and respect to you as a qualified crewmember.

paokgate4
10-23-2011, 07:37 PM
You are doing your colleagues and fellow pilots a disservice by posting hearsay as facts, you stated that this was the salary package at Copa and it is not, it is only what has been proposed and from proposal to current salary rates there is a lot of day light in between.



Don't be so sensitive, it is not anything personal or even against Copa per say, if it bothers you we can call it brand X. And my position is that at a time where there is more demand for professional pilots world wide, so much demand in fact that brands Y and Z are paying contract packages worth $18,000/ month and they are paying for your taxes in the host country with commuting options and more time off, brand X pays what regional captains are making in the U.S to fly a 737, this salaries that are allegedly proposed (because it is not confirmed that those are the proposed rates, you heard it in the rumor mill after all) are not really that good either for an ex pat job but it is a little better than what is paid currently. I hope that is the case but it remains to be seen, for the mean time the pay package at brand X sucks, regardless of its geographical location.






can you tell us how much you make in japan and how cheap is to be a resident of Tokyo?

Last report I read Tokyo was the most expensive place in the world......

Satellite
10-23-2011, 10:50 PM
can you tell us how much you make in japan and how cheap is to be a resident of Tokyo?

Last report I read Tokyo was the most expensive place in the world......

Japan is too expensive,that is correct but still the net money you get there is at least twice the money you get at Copa.
And after all who are you been so sensitive about Copa?Are you flying for
Copa or are you supporting Copa's choices?
Give us a clue.

Satellite
10-24-2011, 05:29 AM
To anybody

Last week Copa was in Mexico trying to do some rectuitement.I don't
know whether they found captains or not but as far as I can think of, today 24th and tomorrow 25th they will be in Toronto doing open day
recruitement trying desperatly for captains.
Does anybody know anything about that?

jetflyger
10-24-2011, 05:41 AM
I see posts here suggestions better conditions (pay, days off, etc) elsewhere in the contract world.

..curious.. how many of those contracts requires time in type?

The Middle East jobs requires time in type for a direct entry captain for those that hires direct entry PIC's (Etihad and Qatar)

Asia jobs requires either time in type or similar size aircraft for a direct entry PIC
(India, Japan, Singapore)

Most European jobs requires a JAA license as well

Panama might not be paradise, but for some it is a welcome opportunity to enjoy interesting destinations in a growing company flying with a young and enthusiastic crew.

Just my two cents...

The Dominican
10-24-2011, 06:14 AM
can you tell us how much you make in japan and how cheap is to be a resident of Tokyo?

Last report I read Tokyo was the most expensive place in the world......

I don't live in Tokyo, I live in the U.S. and it is getting damn expensive to live here man!!!! food is 40% up from just 5 years ago just to mention a few things but that discussion is for another thread all together. As for my stay in Japan (not Tokyo, but Narita) I get paid well so my allowances covers it, now if you think Tokyo is expensive you have to check out Singapore! LOL!

I see posts here suggestions better conditions (pay, days off, etc) elsewhere in the contract world.

..curious.. how many of those contracts requires time in type?

The Middle East jobs requires time in type for a direct entry captain for those that hires direct entry PIC's (Etihad and Qatar)

Asia jobs requires either time in type or similar size aircraft for a direct entry PIC
(India, Japan, Singapore)

Most European jobs requires a JAA license as well

Panama might not be paradise, but for some it is a welcome opportunity to enjoy interesting destinations in a growing company flying with a young and enthusiastic crew.

Just my two cents...

WRONG!

That is why I think it is extremely important that people educate themselves to the opportunities that are out there in the International market, there are many gigs that take DEC's without time on type and right now there are guys getting hired as DEC's in jobs that have time on type as part of their requirements. You guys have taken this way too personal, I'm not condemning your choices guys, if you want to work for peanuts go right ahead, I really don't comprehend as to why you have taken this so personal, is not like you have stock in Copa or that they really care too much about you for the love of Christ! What I'm trying to make you realize (and I'm sorry to say jetflyger, but by your comments you don't have a clue of how things are these days) is that salaries are steadily going up because of the demand for professional crews, even very competitive jobs like NCA for example, are talking about non type rated positions on the 74, a good friend of mine (I've known him for over 20 years) just got a DEC position at Skymark and he doesn't have the 737 type, he was an E170 captain and if you see their requirements they have 500 hours on type as minimums, this is just an example of the opportunities that are out there.
I don't have anything against copa nor the guys that work there, but at times where the demand is the highest is the correct time to increase terms and conditions and I'm sorry if it stings a bit but DEC's at Copa are making less than regional captains at crappy jobs in the U.S.???? Sorry but I think that some of the best pilots in the world need to stop behaving and thinking like migrant workers.
Buena suerte

jetflyger
10-24-2011, 07:21 AM
Wow... not a clue... :-(

Skymark is getting desperate. I agree. Might be our mutural friend who just got hired there as he is a E170 rated JCAB captain. They still require you to have a JCAB license, don't they?

If someone is looking for a direct entry PIC opportunity and want to make good money, then the Middle East or China seems to be the place to go. For most of those jobs they require time in type - that is a fact!

If you would be so kind and enlighten me and those reading....

Where can you go directly into the left seat of an A320 or B737 without time in type today?

Lion Air maybe...






I don't live in Tokyo, I live in the U.S. and it is getting damn expensive to live here man!!!! food is 40% up from just 5 years ago just to mention a few things but that discussion is for another thread all together. As for my stay in Japan (not Tokyo, but Narita) I get paid well so my allowances covers it, now if you think Tokyo is expensive you have to check out Singapore! LOL!



WRONG!

That is why I think it is extremely important that people educate themselves to the opportunities that are out there in the International market, there are many gigs that take DEC's without time on type and right now there are guys getting hired as DEC's in jobs that have time on type as part of their requirements. You guys have taken this way too personal, I'm not condemning your choices guys, if you want to work for peanuts go right ahead, I really don't comprehend as to why you have taken this so personal, is not like you have stock in Copa or that they really care too much about you for the love of Christ! What I'm trying to make you realize (and I'm sorry to say jetflyger, but by your comments you don't have a clue of how things are these days) is that salaries are steadily going up because of the demand for professional crews, even very competitive jobs like NCA for example, are talking about non type rated positions on the 74, a good friend of mine (I've known him for over 20 years) just got a DEC position at Skymark and he doesn't have the 737 type, he was an E170 captain and if you see their requirements they have 500 hours on type as minimums, this is just an example of the opportunities that are out there.
I don't have anything against copa nor the guys that work there, but at times where the demand is the highest is the correct time to increase terms and conditions and I'm sorry if it stings a bit but DEC's at Copa are making less than regional captains at crappy jobs in the U.S.???? Sorry but I think that some of the best pilots in the world need to stop behaving and thinking like migrant workers.
Buena suerte

The Dominican
10-24-2011, 11:05 AM
Wow... not a clue... :-(

Skymark is getting desperate. I agree. Might be our mutural friend who just got hired there as he is a E170 rated JCAB captain. They still require you to have a JCAB license, don't they?

If someone is looking for a direct entry PIC opportunity and want to make good money, then the Middle East or China seems to be the place to go. For most of those jobs they require time in type - that is a fact!

If you would be so kind and enlighten me and those reading....

Where can you go directly into the left seat of an A320 or B737 without time in type today?

Lion Air maybe...

They do? I would suggest that you don't quote facts without the correct information because there are more DEC positions without time on type right now than there have ever been, and this is not my first venture into the international market. My recommendation to those that are reading is this, go ahead and post your profile in several of the more used head hunter agencies that are out there, it will take you a few days and some homework (logbooks) because they are pretty thorough and they want separated times like IMC, PIC and SIC, night PIC and SIC for example. For those that are not too familiar with the agencies, here is a link with some info on it.
Contract agency rants and Kudos, Vietman, Korean, Asiana, Rishworth - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/448029-contract-agency-rants-kudos-vietman-korean-asiana-rishworth.html)
Once your profile is complete, start applying to those jobs that catch you eye, even if you don't meet the minimums or they ask for 500 hours on type, several friends of mine and former colleagues have followed this advise and have gotten DEC positions in companies that have time on type published in their minimums, a former colleague just got a job in Air Asia as a A320 captain and he was a CRJ900 skipper he used me as reference and during my conversation with the HR person, she was trying to get me to come interview LOL! I just cannot stress this enough, don't make assumptions that they require this or that, apply and see what happens.

captjns
10-24-2011, 11:05 AM
Jetflyer asks:

Where can you go directly into the left seat of an A320 or B737 without time in type today?

If you have extensive time on glass aircraft, QATAR will hire DECs into the Airbus without time on type.

They are hiring DECs for the 777 and 787 too. The training bond requirements are quite stiff however. I believe they withhold about 3,000 per month for 18 months. The amount withheld is paid to the crewmember if they last 36 months. The withholding of the training pay does not commence until the airman is released to the line. There is no pay differential between either equipment. Starting pay is circa $9,200. With per diem and other perks when on the line one can earn about 12,000 per month. But remember there's nasty old $3,000 that's withheld from the monthly paycheck.

Fly Dubai has hired non type rated DECs for their B737 operation, with a training bond as well.

Air Asia has hired non type rated DECs for the Airbus.

That said Jetflyer there are carriers that do hire non type rated DECs, provided you have the experience behind you.

Please correct me if I’m wrong… the only negative issue about COPA has been their abysmal pay, terms and conditions, and out of pocket expenses required to get on line. As mentioned previously there are numerous carriers that will provide full assistance from obtaining the work visa, validation, or appropriate airman certificate, and housing.

COPA needs to step up to the plate if they are going to attract qualified talent.

jetflyger
10-24-2011, 01:02 PM
For direct entry PIC jobs...

My little research so far has found that...

Risworth was (1 month) ago still asking for the JCAB license for Skymark, maybe it's changed in the last 30 days if Skymark can't find pilots.

Air Asia wants Airbus typed guys or so I was told 2 weeks ago.

Qatar will interview you into the left seat of the A320 if you have more than 2000 hrs PIC in something bigger than 50 tons. That means E190 or bigger. As far as I know they are not dropping that requirement yet.

FlyDubai will interview you with 1500 hrs PIC on aircraft over 55 tons. That means a MD80, A319/320, B737, etc.

Emirates is not hiring into the left seat.

Etihad will interview you if you have the type and time in type.

Jetstar Asia want you typed for the Singapore base.

Any India job on an Airbus or Boeing wants you typed.

Any China job on an Airbus or Boeing (narrow body) wants you typed and current.

Vietnam Airlines wants you typed and current on the Airbus.

Satellite
10-25-2011, 05:42 AM
Does any body know to tell me,how Copa is doing in Toronto looking for
potential captains yesterday and today?
Did they find any and if they did,how many?

paokgate4
10-26-2011, 11:18 AM
Japan is too expensive,that is correct but still the net money you get there is at least twice the money you get at Copa.
And after all who are you been so sensitive about Copa?Are you flying for
Copa or are you supporting Copa's choices?
Give us a clue.



supporting and dont like lies about the big cash overseas.
and you work where?

paokgate4
10-26-2011, 11:19 AM
Does any body know to tell me,how Copa is doing in Toronto looking for
potential captains yesterday and today?
Did they find any and if they did,how many?


found 12 captains with over 12000 hrs total,
i would assume 7 will make the screening.

why you are soooooooooo into to copa, did they turned you down?

paokgate4
10-26-2011, 11:21 AM
Captain
Monthly
Annual
Salary
3,840.00
46,080.00
UnionPer diem
660.00
7,920.00
13thsalary (Extra month per year)
0
3,840.00
Guaranteed Per diem (63 hrs)
1,082.00
12,984.00
EstimatedPer diem*
1,938.00
21,318.00
Annual ProfitSharing(example 6 wks salary)**
0
5,760.00
Gross Income
7,520.00
97,902.00
Net Income
6,497.90
84,113.50

* Averageof 80 hours per month(in thelastyear). Vacations: 30 daysannualpaid
** Averagelast3 yearswas7 weeks. Annualcompensationbasedin 13 salaries







Thats low but better than skymarks 9500 per month tax free in Tokyo....
Burger for 23 dollars anyone?

Aces
10-26-2011, 11:39 AM
How many in Mexico?
Thanks.

cactusmike
10-26-2011, 04:27 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight but COPA's pay is really low. I get the e-mails from several contract agencies each week and this would be about as low as you can go without going to Whizz Air in the far nether regions of Eastern Europe.

What you have to balance before you jump ship is what you will be getting out of the deal. If you just want to live in Central America then that will count more to you than making better money elsewhere. For me to leave Airways I need to know that I will bank more money working overseas than staying here at a stagnant airline. So far that balance has not swung to leaving, although it is getting closer. When you leave the US you have to know that you will be on your own for more than basic medical, loss of license above a minimum amount, and your 401k or other retirement scheme. Once you are over 50 the last part becomes more of a focus.

Don't just look at raw salary, you have to look at the total cost of a contract. Where you live is important, I believe the reason you see China salaries so high is because China is a tougher place to deal with as an expat compared to Japan, Singapore, Korea, ot the MidEast. On this scale COPA is still way below everyone else. Panama is not really worth discounting your pay unless you really, really want a larger jet type rating and you are looking for a hot future ex wife.

Satellite
10-26-2011, 11:16 PM
found 12 captains with over 12000 hrs total,
i would assume 7 will make the screening.

why you are soooooooooo into to copa, did they turned you down?

First af all learn how to write correct English,secondly the other day I asked you to tell me who are you and why you have such attitude
against the others.
You say that, your friends in Copa tell you what is going on,
for instance the salary, you were talking the other time,whould be increased,the gringo friend of yours told you so but it is still the same.
Now you say Copa found 12 potential captains but only 7 will go for screening.I think you are talking bull****.

The Dominican
10-27-2011, 08:41 AM
Lot of misinformation here, the contract package at Skymark is at $16,300 a month without the contact completion bonus nor overtime pay, they also pay $1,000 a day if you volunteer to fly on one of your days off, this salary is net as opposed to the salary at Copa where you have to pay taxes to the Panamanian government and Japan is one of the countries that has a non double taxation agreement with the U.S. This information is from a close friend of more than 20 years that just started there. Another thing besides the taxes that hasn't been explained to folks about living in Panama is that if you have kids, international schools for them will run you at about $1,500USD/ month each, there are International schools in Japan that are pretty affordable for airline employees and my friends wife is a teacher in one of them so her contract has education for their kids for free (they pay some ridiculous amount like 120yen per kid per month or something like that) but even if you pay for it, their school allowance covers it for two kids. His housing allowance also covers his house because he lives in Nagoya, not central Tokyo, here in Narita for example, you can get a 2,000 sq. feet, 4 bedroom home for $1,500/ month, the same home in central Tokyo would run you $5,000 you don't have to live in central Tokyo, there are options. If you would have spent the same amount of time doing research that you spend spreading misinformation you would have picked another argument than food, food is the one thing that I think is at the same price as in the U.S. I have done many comparisons to what I spend here at the supermarket for groceries and what I spend in the U.S. and besides meat that is about 25% more expensive here, every thing else is pretty much the same and sea food is cheaper actually than what I pay in Minnesota, you can get a greasy burger in central Tokyo as cheap as you get it around your corner, with the same amount of cholesterol on it too, but in one of the most amazing cities on the planet, where you can have an incredible culinary experience, why would you do such a thing?

http://wasinc.net/News/Default.aspx?id=82

They have interviews in Seattle coming up, wonder how many JCAB licensed pilots they will find there

rotorhead1026
10-27-2011, 09:17 AM
Japan is one of the countries that has a non double taxation agreement with the U.S.

Good post, but the language here is a bit cumbersome. What he means is the the Japanese taxes you pay can be (largely) credited against the US taxes you owe. It's not one for one (consult a CPA, not a pilot :)), but it reduces the tax bill considerably. If you live in a state (US state, I mean) with a big income tax this won't help with that liability, though - most state taxes are based on your AGI, which is unaffected by a federal tax credit.

captjns
10-27-2011, 09:54 AM
India is another country that maintains a "Tax Treaty" with the States. Thus salaries advertised in India are net of taxes.

Jet Airways has antied up the pot a bit. Monthly pay for NGers $9,500 based on 80 hours per month. $115 in excess of 80 hours. In addition one has the option of living in a decent hotel with breakfast included, or you can get a monthly housing allowance of circa $2,000. Again all this is net of taxes. That said based on a 30 percent tax rate the gross monthly incomes amounts to about $16,500... without overtime flying. In addition a $6,600 annual "Loyalty Bonus" is paid based on your anniversary of employment.


As for the housing allowance, many lads take an apartment and bank the balance that is not used for rent. Most pay anywhre from $500 to 1,200 per month for a full service apartment... thus resulting an additional 800 to 1,500 per month in the bank.


It's also a commuting contract... 8 weeks on and two weeks off.

As you are all aware India requires one to submit to the Indian Medical. If a pilot receives a Temporary Medically Unfit (TMU) notice the company will keep the airman on the payroll up to one year at a reduced rate of 70%. The company has kept proven to their word on this issue with those who have been TMU'd

paokgate4
10-27-2011, 04:29 PM
First af all learn how to write correct English,secondly the other day I asked you to tell me who are you and why you have such attitude
against the others.
You say that, your friends in Copa tell you what is going on,
for instance the salary, you were talking the other time,whould be increased,the gringo friend of yours told you so but it is still the same.
Now you say Copa found 12 potential captains but only 7 will go for screening.I think you are talking bull****.



your English suck partner, is that the only language you speak? if so, take some additional training

level 3 at best...sorry

Satellite
10-27-2011, 10:23 PM
your English suck partner, is that the only language you speak? if so, take some additional training

level 3 at best...sorry

You still don't answer to my questions.
The only thing you said was about my English and nothing else.
You don't even know what the minimum level is in order to fly.
You can not fly if you have below level 4,idiot.
Before you open your mouth,think,if you can.

captjns
10-27-2011, 10:29 PM
paokgate4 and Satellite, it’s apparent that you have issues with each other. However these issues need to be brought to a different forum, as subject matter here should pertain to COPA, and COPA only. That said, respect the spirit of APC and take your argument to another venue.

I would not like to see this thread locked as I’m sure that there is more valuable information about COPA’s terms and conditions to be learned.

Many thanks

captjns

Satellite
10-27-2011, 11:01 PM
paokgate4 and Satellite, it’s apparent that you have issues with each other. However these issues need to be brought to a different forum, as subject matter here should pertain to COPA, and COPA only. That said, respect the spirit of APC and take your argument to another venue.

I would not like to see this thread locked as I’m sure that there is more valuable information about COPA’s terms and conditions to be learned.

Many thanks

captjns

You are right and I am sorry about my language but this paok guy is
something else.His attitude to the others, he thinks he knows everything.
when ever somebody asks something about Copa,he gives the answer
and most of the tine is wrong.For instance,the salary,the other day somebody asked about the written test,he said FAA ATP but the truth
is, Compass Test,is completely different tests.
That is why I am so angry with this guy.Some times say nothing is better.

globochem
10-28-2011, 11:06 AM
paokgate4 (http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/members/paokgate4.html),

How reliable is your information on the pay raise? I am a Captain here at Copa and have not heard those numbers mentioned.
What we've all heard is $2500 extra base salary, but the numbers you posted would be much better. Days off is still a little low, but better than 7.

Intel19
10-28-2011, 02:13 PM
talking about reliability at copa, at this time there is no official time to begin the JCB
rumours , says MID november , and COPA has the amount of money(hidden)most people are waiting for that to stay o leave.
Line captain NG

TallFlyer
10-28-2011, 04:19 PM
So is Copa hiring gringo FOs at this time?

The Dominican
10-28-2011, 04:31 PM
I think their strategy is to continue counting on an endless supply of light jet pilots looking to get experience in medium size jets and not so much into retaining crews more than just a couple of years, my wish is that you guys do get your wages to a competitive level, but I have a feeling that retaining crews will be very hard for Copa management in the next couple of years.

captjns
10-28-2011, 08:50 PM
I sincerely hope that, as tempting as it may be to be a low timer in a NG, all turn down any offer, not only with COPA, but any airline offering substandard terms and conditions. Unfortunately that ship has sailed as far as US carriers are concerned.

paokgate4
10-29-2011, 12:37 PM
You still don't answer to my questions.
The only thing you said was about my English and nothing else.
You don't even know what the minimum level is in order to fly.
You can not fly if you have below level 4,idiot.
Before you open your mouth,think,if you can.



ok little kid....do you even have your private?

paokgate4
10-29-2011, 12:41 PM
paokgate4 (http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/members/paokgate4.html),

How reliable is your information on the pay raise? I am a Captain here at Copa and have not heard those numbers mentioned.
What we've all heard is $2500 extra base salary, but the numbers you posted would be much better. Days off is still a little low, but better than 7.



Time will tell

paokgate4
10-29-2011, 12:43 PM
So is Copa hiring gringo FOs at this time?



just apply, you have nothing to lose

Spaniards and locals I was told so far in the last 2 ground schools

paokgate4
10-29-2011, 12:46 PM
talking about reliability at copa, at this time there is no official time to begin the JCB
rumours , says MID november , and COPA has the amount of money(hidden)most people are waiting for that to stay o leave.
Line captain NG


4 captains quit I was told so far in 2011, isnt that true?

one volaris, one china 747 deal, one flydubai and one china.

so is my info correct or no.

UCAL will be hiring next sep 2012 BTW

globochem
10-29-2011, 01:45 PM
UCAL will be hiring next sep 2012 BTW

From a furloughed UAL guy here, and Copa NG Captain:

That would probably be a pretty bad move going to UniCal, unless the JCBA is signed. First year at United/CAL is $31/hr and CAL's reserve rules suck bad. I am likely going to bypass the "recall" offer to go to CAL unless either Copa starts to get annoying or the JCBA is complete.

Just my opinion

Intel19
10-29-2011, 04:31 PM
They are taking fos from everywhere, Gringos dont too mutchs , high time Fos not mutch... why?? when they get the 500hours on the NG they leave . Minimun REQ to apply with the type and some hours in ng ,, thats why they prefer low time(250) they stay longer and no experience to leave.
CAPTAINS new story they dont care , they take everybody.. if you STAY one year . you make them happy.. and you are current and ready to applly everywhere.
QUITS in COSTA DEL ESTE FLOOR 3 (OPERATIONS AREA):: IS NORMAL

waiting november JCB

paokgate4
10-30-2011, 06:56 AM
They are taking fos from everywhere, Gringos dont too mutchs , high time Fos not mutch... why?? when they get the 500hours on the NG they leave . Minimun REQ to apply with the type and some hours in ng ,, thats why they prefer low time(250) they stay longer and no experience to leave.
CAPTAINS new story they dont care , they take everybody.. if you STAY one year . you make them happy.. and you are current and ready to applly everywhere.
QUITS in COSTA DEL ESTE FLOOR 3 (OPERATIONS AREA):: IS NORMAL

waiting november JCB



So will you take the recall to CAL new hire FO? or stay at Copa.

captjns
11-09-2011, 04:12 AM
Email received from a recruiter the other day.


My contract with COPA has ended. Unfortunately as this time approached communication ended as well. I have tried numerous times to get updated info for all of you. If you have accepted other employment or are no longer interested you can stop here. For those of you still interested and/or are in the process here is what I know. I am sorry it is so limited but I have been unable to get a more definitive response.


Their hiring seems to be complete for the year. hey have indicated they will hire next year but I do not know when or how many.


For those of you that have seen their ad on at least one recruiting site now requiring Spanish speaking and 737 type ratings among the other qualifications I cannot get them to confirm these requirements or how (if correct) they will/would affect those of you already in the system.


Reference those of you (34) which have been waiting (some for several months) to get your applications approved in order to be invited to interview..............I was told repeatedly that their latest policy is to do reference checks before confirmation and that it was being done. It now seems that is untrue and that you are "on hold". Again I have been unable to learn exactly what that means.


For those of you (30+) that have had your applications already approved and are waiting for an interview date .................Again they will not respond reference your status or how/if the two new requirements will affect you. All I am able to say is that they have your information. I only learned the middle of October that NONE of my approved applicants would be offered an interview that month. All interview slots were given to applicants they found at various job fairs and a few local First Officer applicants. I know one for sure was also an applicant of mine.


In addition I have learned that 4 of you were hired for an October class and 1for November. I do not know who you are and would appreciate you identifying yourself to me so I can close out your applications.


I have received an offer to recruit for them in 2012 that I have not accepted at this time. I personally am very disappointed in COPA's handling of my applicants. I know all of you have entrusted your applications with me and I have not been allowed to have them processed in the way I think appropriate and professional. COPA has let both of us down. At this point I can only encourage you to seek employment elsewhere. Should I receive additional information I will let you know. I will gladly handle individual inquiries as long as it takes to get your issues resolved.



Most sincerely


******* *******

paokgate4
11-09-2011, 05:53 AM
Email received from a recruiter the other day.




Sounds to me that the Texan Girl requested too much cash for finding pilots for Copa and Copa pull the plug.

That is what happens when people get greedy.

stbloc
11-13-2011, 03:46 PM
Hello,
I was wondering if someone could shed some light on the working conditions at COPA. What type of schedule do you guys work and do they offer any type of retirement package. I've heard rumors they work you to death with litte time off and wanted to hear from employess first hand. Are the schedules typical 3 on 4 off or 4 on 3 off? And what about out and backs, do they builds lines to allow more time at home? Any information from a current employee would be much appreciated.

AtlCSIP
12-04-2011, 04:09 PM
Anything new at COPA?

mexipilot84
12-04-2011, 06:58 PM
Nothing new, received a generic e-mail from their HR department to apply online on their website. I did that all even before sending an elaborate cover letter and resume to them. Being a Spanish speaker and experience in Panama doesn't make my resume or application move to the top of the stack. The e-mail I got from FLTops says they were still hiring E190 crews, but even with internal HR names seems to be a weird selection process.

AtlCSIP
12-12-2011, 07:45 AM
I wasn't aware that COPA had E190's. I thought they were strictly B737.

rgoeasy
01-05-2012, 09:58 PM
Hello,
I was wondering if someone could shed some light on the working conditions at COPA. What type of schedule do you guys work and do they offer any type of retirement package. I've heard rumors they work you to death with litte time off and wanted to hear from employess first hand. Are the schedules typical 3 on 4 off or 4 on 3 off? And what about out and backs, do they builds lines to allow more time at home? Any information from a current employee would be much appreciated.

While I am not a "current" employee, I am recent. (I left there in August '11). In MY opinion and MY opinion ONLY, the working conditions are very undiserable. You will be assigned a schedule, there is no bidding. (There is no seniority as we know it here in the US). There is no such thing as a retirement package. Well, ok there is, but it is absolutely silly. It is something like $35.00 a MONTH. At least that's what it was 3, almost 4, years ago. You will either be worked to death or sit on your butt for days on end. Like I mentioned earlier, the schedules are assigned. Oh, by the way, you will get your assigned schedule on or about the 28th of the month, usually around or after 10:00pm. So, don't plan on having any kind of plans for the next month. And, there is no such thing as "typical" 3 on 4 off or 4 on 3 off. Sure, you may have 14 - 16 days off in the month but they will be scattered willy-nilly. Forget trying to commute. They strongly discourage commuting and make it at difficult as possible. For example, when I left there, it was company policy that you HAD to be in Panama AT LEAST 24 hours before your scheduled departure time.
Sorry to be long winded, hope I answered some of your questions. Anything else feel free to PM me.

mexipilot84
01-06-2012, 04:47 AM
While I am not a "current" employee, I am recent. (I left there in August '11). In MY opinion and MY opinion ONLY, the working conditions are very undiserable. You will be assigned a schedule, there is no bidding. (There is no seniority as we know it here in the US). There is no such thing as a retirement package. Well, ok there is, but it is absolutely silly. It is something like $35.00 a MONTH. At least that's what it was 3, almost 4, years ago. You will either be worked to death or sit on your butt for days on end. Like I mentioned earlier, the schedules are assigned. Oh, by the way, you will get your assigned schedule on or about the 28th of the month, usually around or after 10:00pm. So, don't plan on having any kind of plans for the next month. And, there is no such thing as "typical" 3 on 4 off or 4 on 3 off. Sure, you may have 14 - 16 days off in the month but they will be scattered willy-nilly. Forget trying to commute. They strongly discourage commuting and make it at difficult as possible. For example, when I left there, it was company policy that you HAD to be in Panama AT LEAST 24 hours before your scheduled departure time.
Sorry to be long winded, hope I answered some of your questions. Anything else feel free to PM me.



Well they certainly havent made their hiring process any easier either. Seems they want to fill all these Capt. spots but they make it such a tidious process. I have never seen an application so complicated and an HR dept. that responds with automated e-mails that just direct you back to the application. Got the rejection e-mail about 4 months later after applying and attempting to talk to someone. They seem to have become very counter productive from what I hear from former employees, which would explain losing qualified panamanian pilots to foreign carriers like Emirates. Hopefully one day they will change for the better.

hesitant
01-08-2012, 03:11 AM
I think COPA may be a good airline to start with. I am uncomfortable with the fact that they will promote a Panamanian befor an American. This is an example of an airline where I feel that people shoud reconsider, and wait until the conditions improve.
Again, I post frequently, and most of it is not very positive. Lets be realistic.

globochem
01-08-2012, 08:34 AM
Let's clear up the confusion on why someone would want to work for Copa.

It's a job. Not a career or long term prospect, but a job. Better than being unemployed or furloughed but not intended for any length of time other than what it takes to get hired somewhere else. Get your time, apply elsewhere and leave. That is what 99% of us are doing at Copa.

Why is this so hard for some of you to understand?

Sonny Crockett
01-18-2012, 08:30 AM
While I am not a "current" employee, I am recent. (I left there in August '11). In MY opinion and MY opinion ONLY, the working conditions are very undiserable. You will be assigned a schedule, there is no bidding. (There is no seniority as we know it here in the US). There is no such thing as a retirement package. Well, ok there is, but it is absolutely silly. It is something like $35.00 a MONTH. At least that's what it was 3, almost 4, years ago. You will either be worked to death or sit on your butt for days on end. Like I mentioned earlier, the schedules are assigned. Oh, by the way, you will get your assigned schedule on or about the 28th of the month, usually around or after 10:00pm. So, don't plan on having any kind of plans for the next month. And, there is no such thing as "typical" 3 on 4 off or 4 on 3 off. Sure, you may have 14 - 16 days off in the month but they will be scattered willy-nilly. Forget trying to commute. They strongly discourage commuting and make it at difficult as possible. For example, when I left there, it was company policy that you HAD to be in Panama AT LEAST 24 hours before your scheduled departure time.
Sorry to be long winded, hope I answered some of your questions. Anything else feel free to PM me.

Very realistic view from inside COPA.

It's a JOB only...not a long term career place. Get in and get out. I did.