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View Full Version : Air Berlin... anyone?


There is line
11-24-2009, 06:25 AM
ATW Daily News

Tuesday November 24, 2009
Air Berlin said it is seeking to recruit 700 flight attendants and 120 pilots. The new employees would be based in Berlin, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Munich, Munster/Osnabruck, Nuremberg, Paderborn-Lippstadt and Stuttgart in Germany as well as Basel/Muhlhausen and Zurich in Switzerland, AB said. It currently operates 129 aircraft. It has retired all of its 737 Classics and plans to ground two 757s and one 767-300ER by the end of January. It is expecting to take delivery of 26 aircraft in 2010.
Seperately, AB said it became the first airline to receive approval from German aviation regulator LBA to deploy GLS technology on its flights.

Anyone who works/knows about Air Berlin can tell me what their pilot requirements are, pay, benefits, etc.?
Thanks.


Twin Wasp
11-24-2009, 08:13 AM
Sprechen Sie Deutsch?

Kenny
11-24-2009, 09:08 AM
JAA license and a Euro passport aswell.


olympic
11-24-2009, 12:54 PM
Will get information when available from my German friends.

bubi352
11-25-2009, 05:10 AM
That's interesting. Knowing the state of employment in Europe, it will be a bidder fight for those jobs.

F15andMD11
11-25-2009, 10:12 AM
Anyone who works/knows about Air Berlin can tell me what their pilot requirements are, pay, benefits, etc.?
Thanks. Are you serious? In case you are: have you ever flown on them? They're more German than LH! The f/as can barely speak English and the only reason the pilots do is because its required.
Just because a foreign carrier announces they are hiring doesn't mean us dumb a$$ Americans should apply. Besides, pilots are a "dime a dozen" in the EU, they'll be flooded with apps.

olympic
11-25-2009, 11:44 AM
Α lot of companies in Europe are hiring non-nationals lately since they have difficulty in finding pilots that qualify for positions. Having a lot of German friends I can tell you that F15andMD11 has a point with Air Berlin but not for that fact that "They're more German than LH" but for the fact that a lot of Germans are working for companies outside of Germany and a lot of them are looking to get home.

Just some information about the aviation in Germany, you have a ton of pilots who were HIRED by Lufthansa, but are then moved over to companies such as Condor, LH Cargo, Sun Express. Lufthansa has a weird system, only can upgrade on one type as a F/O and Capt etc.

ONCALL
11-25-2009, 03:33 PM
I would still image that you need to know German, have JAR License and the right to work and live in the EU. Whether AB is more German than LH makes no sense, if you qualify apply and see what happens.

Hobbit64
11-25-2009, 05:25 PM
JAA license and a Euro passport aswell.


Yet we allow EU pilots to work here?

Why no reciprocity? I'll never understand this.

bubi352
11-25-2009, 06:44 PM
"Foreigners" still need to have a valid work permit (in most cases a green card), FAA licenses and pass a background check to work in the US. Do you know how pain in the a%# it is to obtain this green card? Probably as much as it would be for you to obtain a work permit in Europe so the reciprocity is essentially equal ;)

Kenny
11-26-2009, 03:39 AM
Yet we allow EU pilots to work here?

Why no reciprocity? I'll never understand this.


Hobbit,

This comes up time and time again but the bottom line is that there are no differences between what's required for a foreigner to fly here and an American to fly in the EU. Every foreign pilot living and working here is doing so because they have a US Green Card (they're a permanent resident) or, they have a US passport.

The only 3 ways I've come across foreigners getting a Green Card are; They are married to a US citizen, an immediate family member is a US citizen or if they're Irish, they won the lottery!

Other than the lottery option, those same conditions will get you the right to live and work in Europe. If you are an American with a German Mother/Father or Wife, you'll have the right to live in Germany. I have American friends that work for Airlines in Europe and Australia and have the ability to do so because they married locals.

The only difference is that they tend to get more specific with the requirement for an EU passport. That's simply down to the fact that the EU is still a collection of countries, rather than one single entity, all with their own immigration laws. Hence a passport allows you the unrestricted ability to fly into and out of any of the EU member states.

nicholasblonde
11-27-2009, 10:27 AM
"Foreigners" still need to have a valid work permit (in most cases a green card), FAA licenses and pass a background check to work in the US. Do you know how pain in the a%# it is to obtain this green card? Probably as much as it would be for you to obtain a work permit in Europe so the reciprocity is essentially equal ;)

Reciprocity is NOT equal--the US will honor spouse-derived work permission to pretty much anyone unless you're on a watch list...a Brit or Pole or German will get equal consideration in any hiring process here if he or she has a US spouse.

Many Euro airlines require (or at least attempt to make it look like they require) an EU nationality/passport--not just "work permission." Even if they are legally required to hire you as a foreigner per EU directives on spousal work rights (derived work permission), you're going to have an uphill battle at a lot of companies in clarifying that you have work permission, but not an EU passport.

Theoretically, the EU was intended to provide the same employment and capital flexibility as the US--so far it's worked for trade and it's worked on a limited basis for SOME nationals of SOME EU countries...they are still a long way from having a transparent fully-fluid work rights system over there.

Go try to get a job in the UK as an Eastern European, or try to get hired at LH with a Spanish spouse and your US passport (even with JAA creds and fluent German)--you'll prob end up having to take it to an EU bureau on migration or something....and they can always find another reason not to hire you as an American in this job market!!!!!!!!!!!!

nicholasblonde
11-27-2009, 10:31 AM
That's right what the guy said on "unrestricted."

It will be hard to prove that having an EU spouse gives you "unrestricted" rights to "live and work in any EU member state." Your are restricted by the fact that you must live and stay married to your EU spouse or your rights go bye bye.

Of course some countries (Spain and Italy) have fairly quick routes to a passport for spouses. Most places it will take 5 years though.

Anyone have any idea though what it would be like if you had permanent residence in an EU member state??? Currently I believe only the UK and maybe Denmark don't honor the EU directive on allowing free movement of permanent residents of other EU countries????

nicholasblonde
11-27-2009, 10:34 AM
ATW Daily News

Tuesday November 24, 2009
Air Berlin said it is seeking to recruit 700 flight attendants and 120 pilots. The new employees would be based in Berlin, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Munich, Munster/Osnabruck, Nuremberg, Paderborn-Lippstadt and Stuttgart in Germany as well as Basel/Muhlhausen and Zurich in Switzerland, AB said. It currently operates 129 aircraft. It has retired all of its 737 Classics and plans to ground two 757s and one 767-300ER by the end of January. It is expecting to take delivery of 26 aircraft in 2010.
Seperately, AB said it became the first airline to receive approval from German aviation regulator LBA to deploy GLS technology on its flights.

Anyone who works/knows about Air Berlin can tell me what their pilot requirements are, pay, benefits, etc.?
Thanks.

PS> In the time it took you to write that you could've gone to their website or done a google search and found the information on your own.

NEDude
11-27-2009, 12:57 PM
That's right what the guy said on "unrestricted."

It will be hard to prove that having an EU spouse gives you "unrestricted" rights to "live and work in any EU member state." Your are restricted by the fact that you must live and stay married to your EU spouse or your rights go bye bye.

Of course some countries (Spain and Italy) have fairly quick routes to a passport for spouses. Most places it will take 5 years though.

Anyone have any idea though what it would be like if you had permanent residence in an EU member state??? Currently I believe only the UK and maybe Denmark don't honor the EU directive on allowing free movement of permanent residents of other EU countries????

Here is what it takes in Denmark - from my girlfriend who is Danish: Getting married to a Dane grants you a two year temporary visa, which can be renewed multiple times. In order to gain permanent residency you must take a series of Danish language courses and some other classes. The entire process takes around seven years. After that you gain permanent Danish residency that does not disappear even if you were to get divorced.

I also believe that Denmark does observe the EU directive, I know there are tons of eastern Europeans from the new EU states who are now living and working in Denmark. I could be mistaken however.

As far as European airlines are concerned, Cimber Sterling in Copenhagen will be doing a lot of hiring soon, a buch of 737s on order.

filejw
11-29-2009, 08:21 AM
Are you serious? In case you are: have you ever flown on them? They're more German than LH! The f/as can barely speak English and the only reason the pilots do is because its required.
Just because a foreign carrier announces they are hiring doesn't mean us dumb a$$ Americans should apply. Besides, pilots are a "dime a dozen" in the EU, they'll be flooded with apps.

LOL. I find this a bit funny in that Air Berlin originally was an American company not that it makes a diff. Started and flown by Americans in like 1975

seattlepilot
12-06-2009, 04:50 AM
Of course some countries (Spain and Italy) have fairly quick routes to a passport for spouses. Most places it will take 5 years though.


Took me 8 years from GC to US citizenship.. Just to give you an idea..

atpcliff
12-06-2009, 11:55 AM
Hi!

My CEO is a Candian, and I can NOT get right to work in Canada...there are some nice jobs up there!

cliff
NBO

nicholasblonde
12-06-2009, 08:46 PM
Took me 8 years from GC to US citizenship.. Just to give you an idea..

Yet I guarantee you the day you got your GC or the day you got married, you would receive equal hiring ability at any US airline....

The second I turn in my resume for any job in any EU country based on spouse-derived work permission, they will cry bloody murder that I don't have "unrestricted" work permission...and in many cases they outright demand a full EU member state passport or UK/Ireland passport...not just work permission, a passport...

Zapata
12-07-2009, 07:01 AM
"Foreigners" still need to have a valid work permit (in most cases a green card), FAA licenses and pass a background check to work in the US. Do you know how pain in the a%# it is to obtain this green card? Probably as much as it would be for you to obtain a work permit in Europe so the reciprocity is essentially equal ;)

On the immigration side, perhaps. However, there is zero reciprocity when it comes to converting pilot certificates.....completely different animal.

tausap
12-25-2009, 07:19 PM
I am American and I worked as a pilot in Berlin for Tempelhof Airways USA from '89-91 and a few of our pilots went to Air Berlin when it was still a US carrier. One of them stayed there and now is #6 on the seniority list (would have been me too had I had the sense to do that, but NOOO, I wanted to work for United) and I posed the question to him. Here is his answer:

"You need German atpl, jar atpl.
Right now we are not hiring since we have own flight school and fill slots from there"

It was pretty difficult to get hired by any German airline back then, and I imagine it still is today. In addition to all the licenses, they want someone who speaks German fluently so you can "fit in". Many of them have max age restrictions as well, usually around 30.

Back before the wall came down only Americans, Brits, and French could fly the corridors in/out of West Berlin, but once Germany reunified that went away and the Germans took away the domestic route authorities for the foreign airlines. AB converted from an FAA carrier to a German one.

Who would have know AB would be so large. Back then it was 3 737s and not much of a future.

JetPiedmont
12-26-2009, 05:16 PM
Hi!

My CEO is a Candian, and I can NOT get right to work in Canada...

Marry her.