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View Full Version : Keep hanging on bottom 300!


UPSFO4LIFE
01-26-2010, 12:49 PM
Looks like they met for 2.5 hours today with no agreement. They have agreed to meet again, but no date has been set.


JRT123
01-26-2010, 12:52 PM
Anybody have any intel - inside information- as to what "shared concepts" are?:confused:

CactusCrew
01-26-2010, 01:01 PM
Anybody have any intel - inside information- as to what "shared concepts" are?:confused:

It can't be good ... what benefit has UPS ever wanted to "share" with its hourlys without a fight. ?

They probably want that language FedEx has in that 4a2b thing. RDGs at the company's discretion and control. IOW, not on a voluntary basis.

I spoke with another 300 member who has a few airline uniforms in his closet as well. We both contend that it is no longer about the money. We gave them over 90% of the goal and somehow NOW their Magic 8 Ball forecasts a possible furlough until 2015. Give me a friggin' break ...

It is now about more than money. It is about contract concessions and even more about control of a part time work force ... or so it seems, it probably always was.


320Driver
01-26-2010, 01:05 PM
Heard preferential bidding system VERY prominate in the discussions. JUST SAY NO folks! Good luck, you all...

Buck92
01-26-2010, 01:10 PM
....

It is now about more than money. It is about contract concessions and even more about control of a part time work force ... or so it seems, it probably always was.

I agree with your analysis. It's unfortunate, but it seems that the IPA was negotiating in good faith while UPS was not. The agreement to take less than 100% last spring, guarentee no furloughs til now and then come back to the table was a pretty shrewd tactic on the company's part. Once we have a certain amount invested in no furloughs, they want to see if we're willing to make concessions to not forfeit "sunk costs." 1st rule of managerial accounting: NEVER make future decisons based on sunk costs. They really couldn't furlough last summer anyway without serious risk to an uninterrupted peak. We're gonna know about furloughs by March at the latest... past that, they bump up against potential peak interruptions again.

I've been fairly optimistic to this point, but I'm starting to think it's misplaced optimism. Increasing system efficiency may well have efficiented ourselves out of work for a few years.:(

Don't open the contract...

ERJ Jay
01-26-2010, 01:21 PM
Heard preferential bidding system VERY prominent in the discussions. JUST SAY NO folks! Good luck, you all...

Oh God, please say NO.

No matter how they spin it, PBS is bad - FOR EVERYONE!

GOCKY
01-26-2010, 01:28 PM
What the heck is "preferential bidding system"?

VegasBoy
01-26-2010, 01:39 PM
use wikipedia to find out what PBS is.

1800 RVR
01-26-2010, 02:22 PM
PBS--------> NO NO NO!

Before anyone comes on here and says how great it was at Brand X, remember that our system is NOTHING like the pax guys and no matter what rules and parameters are negotiated, UPS doesn't even follow our current contract! As many have said, if UPS REALLY wants this, that fact right there should scare the crap out of you to say NO to PBS. :eek:

CactusCrew
01-26-2010, 02:25 PM
PBS--------> NO NO NO!

Before anyone comes on here and says how great it was at Brand X, remember that our system is NOTHING like the pax guys and no matter what rules and parameters are negotiated, UPS doesn't even follow our current contract! As many have said, if UPS REALLY wants this, that fact right there should scare the crap out of you to say NO to PBS. :eek:


I had PBS at brand Z. Read this carefully ...

In a PERFECT world PBS could be a nice bidding system.

NOT in the system that "synchronizes the world of commerce"

navigatro
01-26-2010, 02:39 PM
I think PBS is great.

Don't you guys watch "Antiques Roadshow"?

-----

Read on the B&G interesting theories that MOU delay related to Mechanic's contract negotiations or FAA fatigue rule postponement.

Moondog
01-26-2010, 03:39 PM
I think PBS is great.

Don't you guys watch "Antiques Roadshow"?

-----

Read on the B&G interesting theories that MOU delay related to Mechanic's contract negotiations or FAA fatigue rule postponement.


I had a PBR last weekend, it was tasty!!:D

Section Eight
01-26-2010, 04:58 PM
PBS--------> NO NO NO!

Before anyone comes on here and says how great it was at Brand X, remember that our system is NOTHING like the pax guys and no matter what rules and parameters are negotiated, UPS doesn't even follow our current contract! As many have said, if UPS REALLY wants this, that fact right there should scare the crap out of you to say NO to PBS. :eek:

Not No, Hell no. Think of this, all your vacation and training on DAYS OFF! Add to that, think we are overstaffed by x amount now? Try 2x with PBS, thats what the underlying reason is. More savings, less people, a thinner bottom line, and a bigger bonus for some. Every day we hang out is yet another day on the job. I am positive that the EB is not even entertaining this, so this is all just conjecture anyway. In the meantime I like the PBR idea instead.

767pilot
01-26-2010, 07:00 PM
Heard preferential bidding system VERY prominate in the discussions. JUST SAY NO folks! Good luck, you all...

How would you know anything that was "prominate" in the discussions?

Tigerpilot1995
01-26-2010, 07:03 PM
Heard preferential bidding system VERY prominate in the discussions. JUST SAY NO folks! Good luck, you all...

My inside sources tell me that is not the case. That is a rumor started by our own without any merit.

767pilot
01-26-2010, 07:04 PM
Think of this, all your vacation on DAYS OFF!

Think of it if you want, but that is not what PBS does. You still get your vacation on work days if you are senior enough, and you can still put off days before and after, you just can't conflict. Still a bad deal for us given our favorable conflict rules. Just try to keep your arguments honest

767pilot
01-26-2010, 07:31 PM
My inside sources tell me that is not the case. That is a rumor started by our own without any merit.
And being flamed by some managers. It is nothing more than a leming like panic on the bar and grill right now. Mass psychosis.

Pilot7576
01-26-2010, 08:15 PM
Folks...

Just my .02 here but I think the company is fishing in a dry hole trying to open up the contract to extract more savings. Atlanta is probably po'd that there isn't a 4a2b in our contract that allows them instant savings. So they try and sweat us for any contract concessions...

With the new administration in, I would be very surprised if they responded positively at all to any company entreaties to open the contract. PBS was a nonstarter during the last negotiations and it is still a nonstarter. The company was offered 90% with a chance to make up the difference in the future. With their footdragging and posturing I still believe they eventually will settle for this deal

JMO

Pilot7576

brownie
01-26-2010, 09:11 PM
PBS = Instant 1000 furlough.

bleedairpacks
01-26-2010, 10:31 PM
Agreed on PBS being the plague for you guys. Will have to rebrand the slogon on your a/c after this. Good luck to all brown pilots.

say that again
01-27-2010, 05:55 AM
Heard preferential bidding system VERY prominate in the discussions. JUST SAY NO folks! Good luck, you all...
Entering discussions to allow PBS in exchange for no furloughs is contradictory. PBS would only result in being more over staffed.

320Driver
01-27-2010, 08:58 AM
I'm not sure UPS really feels they are as over staffed as much as some have suggested. The PBS, plus another round of MOU next fall, gives UPS all the flexibility they want. PBS does reduce staffing to some degree, but it allows a much greater control over scheduling issues. By the time this would be fully implemented, the economy should be much stronger, and UPS will have fully exploited this "crisis."

ANCSDF
01-27-2010, 09:01 AM
My inside sources tell me that is not the case.

What do your "inside sources" say about hiring? :rolleyes:

Buck92
01-27-2010, 10:17 AM
What do your "inside sources" say about hiring? :rolleyes:

That we shouldn't have hired you to be a manager and you may be out of a job soon when they cut the dead weight. :p

ANCSDF
01-27-2010, 11:14 AM
Come on. Don't be like that homie. FQMs are the only thing holding this place together. IPA guys are too unproductive for UPS in these difficult economic conditions.

Be glad we're here to keep things running smoothly otherwise we'd be like all other failing companies.

CactusCrew
01-27-2010, 11:39 AM
Come on. Don't be like that homie. FQMs are the only thing holding this place together. IPA guys are too unproductive for UPS in these difficult economic conditions.

Be glad we're here to keep things running smoothly otherwise we'd be like all other failing companies.


Keeping it smooth and productive by posting on internet forums ?

That's a good one !

purpledog
01-27-2010, 12:03 PM
Don't give them anything like 4a2b or PBS! Once you give that up, you'll never get it back. 4a2b is ultimate control over our lives as you can tell from the thousands of posts. Good luck brownies! Unfortunately whats good for the goose usually gets applied to the gander.

FR8TFLYER
01-27-2010, 12:25 PM
Come on. Don't be like that homie. FQMs are the only thing holding this place together. IPA guys are too unproductive for UPS in these difficult economic conditions.

Be glad we're here to keep things running smoothly otherwise we'd be like all other failing companies.

That's what is wrong with you guys. You live and breathe UPS, too much brown kool-aid for you, get a life!

Vman
01-27-2010, 01:06 PM
Come on. Don't be like that homie. FQMs are the only thing holding this place together. IPA guys are too unproductive for UPS in these difficult economic conditions.

Be glad we're here to keep things running smoothly otherwise we'd be like all other failing companies.


How many FQMs does southwest have? And yes, you guys are SO productive that you need to buy trips to remain current...?

Vman
01-27-2010, 01:09 PM
I agree with your analysis. It's unfortunate, but it seems that the IPA was negotiating in good faith while UPS was not. The agreement to take less than 100% last spring, guarentee no furloughs til now and then come back to the table was a pretty shrewd tactic on the company's part. Once we have a certain amount invested in no furloughs, they want to see if we're willing to make concessions to not forfeit "sunk costs." 1st rule of managerial accounting: NEVER make future decisons based on sunk costs. They really couldn't furlough last summer anyway without serious risk to an uninterrupted peak. We're gonna know about furloughs by March at the latest... past that, they bump up against potential peak interruptions again.

I've been fairly optimistic to this point, but I'm starting to think it's misplaced optimism. Increasing system efficiency may well have efficiented ourselves out of work for a few years.:(

Don't open the contract...

Actually, the foot dragging demonstrates a reluctance to F the bottom 300..FWIW.

SEGATAKI
01-27-2010, 03:09 PM
Most of the UPS pilots on this forum need to face reality. In 2010 UPS is flying fewer block hours than it did 5 years ago and that applies to domestic flying and international flying. In the past two years we have retired two fleet types, the 727 and the DC-8, both of which have three crew positions. As of now we have 139 pilots from the DC-8 currently not assigned to any fleet, in other words they are not doing any flying for UPS. The reality is that we are over staffed and currently flying fewer block hours with two less fleet types.

Granted we are taking delivery of more aircraft this year, 4 747-400 freighters from Cargo Lux, two this year and the final two sometime in the future and a few 767-300 freighters. All of these aircraft can carry more volume then the 727 or DC-8. The rest of the 767-300 freighters off the Boeing line will be delivered during the next two or three years, a total I believe of 26 or 27. These aircraft will allow us to carry more volume. The reality is that these aircraft do not replace entirely the retired 2 UPS fleets, and we have a few 757 aircraft that are not being utilized. The IPA has chosen to deal with this over staffing via the MOU on a volunteer basis. There is no guarantee that our block hours will increase during the next few years. No one can predict what the economy will do in the future.

I can assure you that the last thing UPS wants to do is put people on the street during a horrible job environment. Throwing darts and blaming any particular group in the Air Group will not solve this staffing issue. All of us will have to work together, the IPA and management to ensure that the most senior to the most junior crew member maintains their quality of life and their careers. Making statements that certain people or groups are not productive or useless will not make our staffing issue go away.

The fact that UPS has allowed this issue to continue thus far should be an indicator that the company wants to avoid a furlough. I am sure there is still some way for the company and the IPA to resolve this issue, but it will not happen on a public forum!

Buck92
01-27-2010, 03:23 PM
Most of the UPS pilots on this forum need to face reality. In 2010 UPS is flying fewer block hours than it did 5 years ago and that applies to domestic flying and international flying. In the past two years we have retired two fleet types, the 727 and the DC-8, both of which have three crew positions. As of now we have 139 pilots from the DC-8 currently not assigned to any fleet, in other words they are not doing any flying for UPS. The reality is that we are over staffed and currently flying fewer block hours with two less fleet types.

Granted we are taking delivery of more aircraft this year, 4 747-400 freighters from Cargo Lux, two this year and the final two sometime in the future and a few 767-300 freighters. All of these aircraft can carry more volume then the 727 or DC-8. The rest of the 767-300 freighters off the Boeing line will be delivered during the next two or three years, a total I believe of 26 or 27. These aircraft will allow us to carry more volume. The reality is that these aircraft do not replace entirely the retired 2 UPS fleets, and we have a few 757 aircraft that are not being utilized. The IPA has chosen to deal with this over staffing via the MOU on a volunteer basis. There is no guarantee that our block hours will increase during the next few years. No one can predict what the economy will do in the future.

I can assure you that the last thing UPS wants to do is put people on the street during a horrible job environment. Throwing darts and blaming any particular group in the Air Group will not solve this staffing issue. All of us will have to work together, the IPA and management to ensure that the most senior to the most junior crew member maintains their quality of life and their careers. Making statements that certain people or groups are not productive or useless will not make our staffing issue go away.

The fact that UPS has allowed this issue to continue thus far should be an indicator that the company wants to avoid a furlough. I am sure there is still
some way for the company and the IPA to resolve this issue, but it will not happen on a public forum!

I'd like to commend you for a very thoughtful and non-antogonistic analysis. I agree with most of what you said and I hope an upturn in the economy happens fast enough that further involuntary staff reductions can be avoided for all groups.

The "not productive" statements to which you refer seem most directed at your andsdf buddy who, in his 14 posts, has mostly thrown flame bait for what seems like his personal amusement. While I totally agree that an anonymous forum is not a good place to find accurate info for one's personal job security, unfortunately, many clearly turn here for such information. Given the stress many feel over the potential loss of their jobs in an economy where they're unlikely to find another one of any type, I think negative comments are more than justified. You may want to mention that to him at the next manager BBQ.

FR8TFLYER
01-27-2010, 03:32 PM
Segataki-

Now that the latest rumor is the want to can some of you guys you change your tune. This is the only well thought out post you have made on this forum. Face it, you and yours are the most unproductive bunch around and are now worried!

ANCSDF
01-27-2010, 03:52 PM
Sorry. No plans to fire managers. Just some IPA furloughs for a few years till retirements pick up again, unless you guys can find ways to get more productive. Its not personal. Just business.

Buck92
01-27-2010, 03:57 PM
Managers obviously hired for professionalism and maturity.

navigatro
01-27-2010, 03:58 PM
Sorry. No plans to fire managers.

Want to bet. I heard otherwise, from a good source.....

320Driver
01-27-2010, 04:02 PM
I want into that bet also. 85 gone. Now back to studying there son, mid-terms are coming up...

SEGATAKI
01-27-2010, 04:07 PM
Segataki-

Now that the latest rumor is the want to can some of you guys you change your tune. This is the only well thought out post you have made on this forum. Face it, you and yours are the most unproductive bunch around and are now worried!


You might want to preview your post next time before submitting it! Explain to me how we are unproductive? I doubt that you know anything about my job and what it is that I do besides IOE training, flying the line and being an FAA designee. We have already reduced our numbers via retirement by 10 per cent, taken a wage freeze and we no longer receive any matching on our 401K. The last two items alone I would call productive! If there is a furlough guess what; that is more work for the training staff!

Freightpuppy
01-27-2010, 04:16 PM
Come on. Don't be like that homie. FQMs are the only thing holding this place together. IPA guys are too unproductive for UPS in these difficult economic conditions.

Be glad we're here to keep things running smoothly otherwise we'd be like all other failing companies.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the good laugh this evening.

ANCSDF
01-27-2010, 04:16 PM
Also should be some nice open time to fly too. Figure some pilots won't pick up anymore after the furlough.

$$caching$$

FrontSeat
01-27-2010, 04:20 PM
You might want to preview your post next time before submitting it! Explain to me how we are unproductive? I doubt that you know anything about my job and what it is that I do besides IOE training, flying the line and being an FAA designee. We have already reduced our numbers via retirement by 10 per cent, taken a wage freeze and we no longer receive any matching on our 401K. The last two items alone I would call productive! If there is a furlough guess what; that is more work for the training staff!

Your job can be done by any IPA pilot. You were hired because they found a trait in your brain that suggests you will fly the line if there is a strike. You are scab material. And you probably do your office duties for many hours and climb into a plane without legal rest. Tell me you never done that?

UPS1856
01-27-2010, 04:20 PM
Want to bet. I heard otherwise, from a good source.....

Rumors that flights were filled with managers heading ANC-SDF last night for a "Meeting with the Bob's" today. That and managers having to "log" their productivity as of late, sheds some suspicion on who's job is in jeopardy.

Anyone else hear this?

767pilot
01-27-2010, 04:21 PM
That's what they are going to tell you, right up until you get your reassigenment to the truck wash rack in Bismark.

Segataki,
You are no doubt right, there are extra IPA crews and nobody disputes that. We need less crews and are dealing with it by taking extra time off with no pay. It's either that or a furlough. I don't really think that the company cares either way. For the sake of discussion, let's say that we need 300 less, that seems to be the number floated around. Do you really think that we need the same amount of managers with 10% less pilots? That also means 10% less coffee to get made and 10% fewer magazines for ANCSDF to straighten. Just kidding on the last part <G>, but seriously, why would the manager head count be expected to remian the same? As the company consolidates (carnac predicts a shrinking ONT domicile), managers become even more efficient and the need for them shrink further. You guys make the big bucks, cutting managers makes big savings.

navigatro
01-27-2010, 04:21 PM
ANCSDF,

There is no way you are a manager at brown. You make too many spelling and grammar mistakes. A real manager would be a spell-check expert, from writing all those MRBs.

SEGATAKI
01-27-2010, 04:22 PM
Never done that!!

320Driver
01-27-2010, 04:23 PM
Your job can be done by any IPA pilot. You were hired because they found a trait in your brain that suggests you will fly the line if there is a strike. You are scab material. And you probably do your office duties for many hours and climb into a plane without legal rest. Tell me you never done that?

At nearly EVERY other airline their job is done by the union pilots....

FlyFishin
01-27-2010, 04:48 PM
Also should be some nice open time to fly too. Figure some pilots won't pick up anymore after the furlough.

$$caching$$
Obviously not a manager. They don't get paid extra for open time flying.

767pilot
01-27-2010, 04:57 PM
Rumors that flights were filled with managers heading ANC-SDF last night for a "Meeting with the Bob's" today.

Who are the Bob's? I imagine one is Lekites, who else is there? I doubt it is Thrush <G>

767pilot
01-27-2010, 04:59 PM
You were hired because they found a trait in your brain that suggests you will fly the line if there is a strike.

Is that really necessary?

UPS1856
01-27-2010, 05:10 PM
Who are the Bob's? I imagine one is Lekites, who else is there? I doubt it is Thrush <G>

YouTube - Office Space: Meeting "The Bobs" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJzpeCMJzs)

767pilot
01-27-2010, 05:26 PM
YouTube - Office Space: Meeting "The Bobs" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJzpeCMJzs)

Oh....Slidell and Porter. Now i see

FrontSeat
01-27-2010, 06:09 PM
Is that really necessary?

No I guess not,,,I hate it when other people state the obvious as well.....

UPSFO4LIFE
01-27-2010, 06:35 PM
Man, I go out for a few beers with 3 pages and now 6!

brownie
01-27-2010, 09:08 PM
A good friend of mine (manager) told me that he was told by couple of top level guys that atlanta is looking really hard at the numbers of fqm's per pilot and the number is around 65 or so. Hate to see anyone lose a job but that's the latest. Not sure if it was brought up at the meeting but it was dicussed in private. Take it for what it's worth.

brownie
01-27-2010, 09:10 PM
Oh by the way one of the concerns were the number of managers per airplane in anchorage.

cessnapilot
01-27-2010, 11:20 PM
ANCSDF,

There is no way you are a manager at brown. You make too many spelling and grammar mistakes. A real manager would be a spell-check expert, from writing all those MRBs.


I cannot tell you how many errors I have found in our MRBs. The documents we're given should be writing with strictly a technical writing format, but many times there are misused adjectives and emotion included. I laugh when I read a lot of our stuff. I'm not passing judgment, it's just something interesting I noted.
cp

L'il J.Seinfeld
01-28-2010, 12:03 AM
I cannot tell you how many errors I have found in our MRBs. The documents we're given should be writing with strictly a technical writing format, but many times there are misused adjectives and emotion included. I laugh when I read a lot of our stuff. I'm not passing judgment, it's just something interesting I noted.
cp

Your correct. I've notised allot of misspellins to. Its usually the union messages and youd think are union would have it's act together.

FR8TFLYER
01-28-2010, 04:06 PM
My neighbor is a management type and says he knows for a fact furlough letters will be sent out shortly. I have instituted my furlough pay back system which will continue until the day I retire. My wife works in an office which on average sends/receives 10-15 overnight letters or packages per week. Always used UPS, as of February 1, all business is now with Purple. Not much I know, but over time it all adds up. This is only the first of many pay backs from me to them, nothing personal, just business!

fedupbusdriver
01-28-2010, 04:12 PM
We appreciate the business, but one would think that less Ups business means a longer furlough.

1800 RVR
01-28-2010, 04:49 PM
My neighbor is a management type and says he knows for a fact furlough letters will be sent out shortly. I have instituted my furlough pay back system which will continue until the day I retire. My wife works in an office which on average sends/receives 10-15 overnight letters or packages per week. Always used UPS, as of February 1, all business is now with Purple. Not much I know, but over time it all adds up. This is only the first of many pay backs from me to them, nothing personal, just business!

Is this guy an ACP, and what odds of believability do you give his statement?

UPS1856
01-28-2010, 05:10 PM
My neighbor is a management type and says he knows for a fact furlough letters will be sent out shortly. !

Management or the 300?

Pharo351
01-28-2010, 10:01 PM
Management or the 300?

Absolutely management, remember good news always comes on Fridays!

:):):)

navigatro
01-29-2010, 03:24 AM
My neighbor is a management type and says he knows for a fact furlough letters will be sent out shortly.

Was he glad to be telling you this?

Unless your neighbor is J. Barney Fife, I doubt he would know.

I hope I am mistaken, though.

FR8TFLYER
01-29-2010, 04:20 AM
I wouldn't say he was gloating, just telling me. I asked about him and his mangler buddies and he said they were under the threat as well, no numbers tho!

UPSFO4LIFE
01-29-2010, 06:10 AM
Kind of funny, I also have a UPS manager in my hood, and told me last night there is still NO decision on any furlough. In fact, no meetings with IPA are even scheduled. Furlough notices can't go out until IPA is notified. Not saying there is not going to be a furlough, but I really doubt any manager that is willing to talk to you or I, have any clue what is going to happen.


On another note, he said if 300 get furloughed, look for all but about 80 managers to get the ax as well!

FlyFishin
01-29-2010, 06:53 AM
There isn't one manager in SDF that has a friggin clue what will happen, all decisions are made in Atlanta. Even the Chief pilots are kept in the dark until the last second. I highly doubt your manager buddy is 'in the know.' I'm not saying there wont be a furlough, I'm just saying only Atlanta knows at this point.

Naven
01-29-2010, 07:07 AM
"NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. economy grew at a faster-than-expected 5.7 percent pace in the fourth quarter, the quickest pace in more than six years"

I know the #'s don't mean much. But we are in much better shape today then we were last June when the original furloughs were discussed.

ERJ Jay
01-29-2010, 08:10 AM
PBS = Even more furloughs as the "synchronize the world of commerce" on your backs.

Trust me, PBS is BAD, very BAD, no matter what vendor they look at they all reduce required number of pilots on property over the long term.
Once you have it, it will be close to impossible to get rid of it again.

Just say no.

Night Eagle
01-29-2010, 01:45 PM
According to the letter from the IPA's BT UPS and IPA will be meeting no sooner than Wednesday February 3rd. It says UPS might offer the same retirement as the FQM's.

If the meeting goes bad the furlough / displacement bid would follow I assume since current bid closes Feb 5th. May 4th would be the 90 day notice day for the first furloughees. Let's hope it doesn't go that way. (My calculations this was not in the letter from IPA) The 747-400 should be AQP by March so a much quicker turn in the schoolhouse.

Would be interesting if UPS says no to MOU II offers the same early retirement they did to the FQM's. I wonder if any IPA'ers would accept that offer then UPS could furlough less than 300. Of course if no pilots take it well it makes the IPA'ers look selfish to the bottom 300 (the old divide and conquer mngmt 101)?

Sorry to seem negative I just don't have a good vibe about this when the IPA President warns potential early retirees to watch out and not do it. I know his job is to protect ALL IPA'ers just a thought from someone that knows nothing in the bottom 100 anyone else?

UPSFO4LIFE
01-29-2010, 01:56 PM
I think at this point, anything is possible. I do think though, that if they were going to turn down the MOU, they would have made the decsion by today, as the new bid period starts Sunday. Right now, I would not be suprised to see then furlough 300 or accept the MOU. I guess we shall see next week.....maybe!

As far as warning the early retirees, I think he has to say that because we are way past the so called decision point. I would not want to retire under the MOU if the MOU never happens.

Shaggy1970
01-29-2010, 05:46 PM
I think that furlough is on the horizon. The fact that they turned down the savings for 10-02 should be the final nail in the coffin for the nay sayers. It's going to get interesting next week, that's for sure. The wrench in the system is the 400 in ANC. It's easy to replace the folks on the mad dog, invoke article 14 and move the SDF based crew members up to ANC to supplement the flying but the 400 flying is going to be hard to cover. Looking into my crystal ball you can bet a furlough of a 100-150 letters to be sent out then about 20-30 a month until they reach the 300-400. I wish us luck and hope I am wrong but this company doesn't care about me or anyone else out there just only the bottom line.

Luckydawg
01-29-2010, 08:11 PM
I think that furlough is on the horizon. The fact that they turned down the savings for 10-02 should be the final nail in the coffin for the nay sayers. It's going to get interesting next week, that's for sure. The wrench in the system is the 400 in ANC. It's easy to replace the folks on the mad dog, invoke article 14 and move the SDF based crew members up to ANC to supplement the flying but the 400 flying is going to be hard to cover. Looking into my crystal ball you can bet a furlough of a 100-150 letters to be sent out then about 20-30 a month until they reach the 300-400. I wish us luck and hope I am wrong but this company doesn't care about me or anyone else out there just only the bottom line.

Where do you get that they turned down the savings for 10-02? Many people right now are preparing for RDG,s, etc. If the whole MOU is turned down then, 10-02 falls down with it.

The MOU could fail but there are many things lining up in our favor.

Aside from the most ominous thing (new hire class, they said this was the last airline we would ever work for), there are way too many variables for this thing to fail.

- $244 million in savings on the table, tough to walk away from
- 150 retirements in 3 years
- MOU provides flexibility in a questionable environment
- Flying out of Asia/Middle East way up
- UPS 4th quarter earnings up from $.58 to .65 per share to .73 to .75 per
- Wall street acted favorably to MOU 1
- Possible FAR changes in the near term
- More labor friendly political environment
- Training costs.... this really does exist :eek:

I don't think they will furlough.

Vman
01-29-2010, 08:19 PM
According to the letter from the IPA's BT UPS and IPA will be meeting no sooner than Wednesday February 3rd. It says UPS might offer the same retirement as the FQM's.

If the meeting goes bad the furlough / displacement bid would follow I assume since current bid closes Feb 5th. May 4th would be the 90 day notice day for the first furloughees. Let's hope it doesn't go that way. (My calculations this was not in the letter from IPA) The 747-400 should be AQP by March so a much quicker turn in the schoolhouse.

Would be interesting if UPS says no to MOU II offers the same early retirement they did to the FQM's. I wonder if any IPA'ers would accept that offer then UPS could furlough less than 300. Of course if no pilots take it well it makes the IPA'ers look selfish to the bottom 300 (the old divide and conquer mngmt 101)

Seems like sound logic except the 400 training center can't really operate any quicker. The process of assigning slots will quicken but not the production of pilots. Also, some of the instructors are in the bottoms 300, unless they have contractors set up...

Vman
01-29-2010, 08:25 PM
Where do you get that they turned down the savings for 10-02? Many people right now are preparing for RDG,s, etc. If the whole MOU is turned down then, 10-02 falls down with it.

The MOU could fail but there are many things lining up in our favor.

Aside from the most ominous thing (new hire class, they said this was the last airline we would ever work for), there are way too many variables for this thing to fail.

- $244 million in savings on the table, tough to walk away from
- 150 retirements in 3 years
- MOU provides flexibility in a questionable environment
- Flying out of Asia/Middle East way up
- UPS 4th quarter earnings up from $.58 to .65 per share to .73 to .75 per
- Wall street acted favorably to MOU 1
- Possible FAR changes in the near term
- More labor friendly political environment
- Training costs.... this really does exist :eek:

I don't think they will furlough.

FAR delay may be favorable. I don't think they factor training costs, but rather see it as training investments. I think UPS would love it if every pilot was trained on every aircraft...

Tigerpilot1995
01-31-2010, 07:27 AM
Simply tired of reading management types on here. What a waste.