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View Full Version : FDX - FEB Secondary Max Credit...


PurpleTail
01-27-2010, 03:06 PM
I have looked and looked for the FCIF that stated the Max Line Values for Secondaries in Feb but I can not find it anywhere.

Can someone help me out please, thanks.


nakazawa
01-27-2010, 05:52 PM
FCIF 10-0024 (Admin) - Secondary Line Values FEB '10.
Nakazawa

MD11Fr8Dog
01-27-2010, 06:01 PM
I have looked and looked for the FCIF that stated the Max Line Values for Secondaries in Feb but I can not find it anywhere.

Can someone help me out please, thanks.

Easy math, min BLG from the bidpack + 13

At least, that's how they had been doing it! Personally, I just looked at RLG for the value of my VTO!


golfandfly
01-28-2010, 04:07 AM
Naka,

I looked for the FCIF and still couldn't find it. Are you still able to view it??

Gunter
01-28-2010, 04:33 AM
Why do they see the need to delete the FCIF so quickly? It's deleted every month.

I think they feel they're doing something wrong and want to get rid of the evidence as soon as possible.

golfandfly
01-28-2010, 04:38 AM
What is the min BLG you can get on a VTO in Feb? I am MD-11 FO MEM. Just curious what the range is. Thanks if anyone has this info..

Gunter
01-28-2010, 04:54 AM
the min is the 13 hr spread from the highest line.

MD11Fr8Dog
01-28-2010, 05:36 AM
Naka,

I looked for the FCIF and still couldn't find it. Are you still able to view it??

That FCIF, historically, each month, disappears about the time VTOs are completed!

golfandfly
01-28-2010, 06:10 AM
A 13 hour spread can make a big difference in line value. Since the High line was a whopping 70.5 hours, the low line can be as low as 57.5. That is a pretty big difference. If I remember right, the spread used to be 11?? I don't bid VTOs often and was considering bidding one next month, but guess I'll pass... Thanks for the info

FedupFlex
01-28-2010, 07:48 AM
No posting! Cat walked on keyboard while away from the desk

onetime
01-28-2010, 12:35 PM
Does anyone find the number of XTRA pairings in open time right now a tad odd?

Lindy
01-28-2010, 01:26 PM
Probably equipment change.....most if the X-Pairings are FLL.

Gunter
01-28-2010, 01:28 PM
Does anyone find the number of XTRA pairings in open time right now a tad odd?

Depends on what you mean by odd. Makes perfect sense if you want to keep the VTO average low.

MX727
01-28-2010, 03:55 PM
Does anyone find the number of XTRA pairings in open time right now a tad odd?

Nope, they've been preparing for a winter storm that bearing down on MEM for the last couple of days.

One morel time to let them man the trips with the overmanned crewforce. But many will jump on the draft train anyway....

FXDX
01-28-2010, 05:17 PM
This is BS! This company is putting 3 or 4 week long airport standbys worth 40-42 hours as X pairings each and every week in the 72. Every fng week, and they have been doing it for months. EVERY FNG WEEK. What a crock.

Keeping the BLGs artificially low and forcing everybody to burn up their makeup banks just to try to keep up. This has to stop, and our MEC ought to be all over this.

pipe
01-28-2010, 06:02 PM
This is BS! This company is putting 3 or 4 week long airport standbys worth 40-42 hours as X pairings each and every week in the 72. Every fng week, and they have been doing it for months. EVERY FNG WEEK. What a crock.

Keeping the BLGs artificially low and forcing everybody to burn up their makeup banks just to try to keep up. This has to stop, and our MEC ought to be all over this.


Did you read your post?

You're upset about 4a2b yet you're burning up your makeup bank? You realize that it's you making the management program work!!!! Right??!! You get that don't you?

If nobody took the open time it would go back into the lines eventually. But no, there are plenty of you guys cleaning out the open time -- and playing your part to depress the BLG's -- AT THE EXPENSE OF YOUR OWN BANK!!!!!

Do you usually saw off the limb you're sitting on?

PIPE

FXDX
01-28-2010, 06:57 PM
Pipe: I have no makeup bank. Its not me picking up any of these week long pairings. I've been at zero for much longer than we've been in 4A2b. Burned it up trying to consolidate in 2007. The most I could hope for is 6.0 hours a month anyway.

Yes, I understand that guys burning up their makeup banks is helping to keep us in 4A2b.

I also understand that it is in the contract to use your makeup bank, however you see fit, so I don't begrudge guys from making up work that they dropped at some earlier time.

I'm not in favor of having a bunch of carryover while in 4A2b, I'd rather that at least the guys flying makeup were covering work they actually had to drop rather than phantom carryover drops.

Either way, its all in the contract, and these were the same arguments made in 04 when we also had a bit of stagnation.

Beyond all of that, I don't know how the company can continually put these pairings into open time EVERY WEEK for several months. Put them in the bid packs to we can bid on them and bring the BLGs up to cover the flying that is being scheduled.

FXDX
01-28-2010, 07:14 PM
We are definitely our own worst enemies, and the company is taking advantage of our collective greed (the simple desire to make up some of the losses suffered over the past year of 4A2b).

We are a bunch of crack *****s and the they are waving free crack pipes in front of our noses. We can't help ourselves but take the crack. I say we in a collective sense. Same thing with the 777 pay rates, or lack there of.

Smart on the company, but dishonest and not in accordance with the contract. That flying should be in the bidpacks. If not they ought to at least bump up every BLG retroactively each month to reflect the additional flying that we should have been able to bid for in the first place.

My complaint is that we're doing this flying EVERY WEEK for the past several months, and its not in the bidpack.

pipe
01-28-2010, 07:15 PM
Pipe: I have no makeup bank. Its not me picking up any of these week long pairings. I've been at zero for much longer than we've been in 4A2b. Burned it up trying to consolidate in 2007. The most I could hope for is 6.0 hours a month anyway.

Yes, I understand that guys burning up their makeup banks is helping to keep us in 4A2b.

I also understand that it is in the contract to use your makeup bank, however you see fit, so I don't begrudge guys from making up work that they dropped at some earlier time.

I'm not in favor of having a bunch of carryover while in 4A2b, I'd rather that at least the guys flying makeup were covering work they actually had to drop rather than phantom carryover drops.

Either way, its all in the contract, and these were the same arguments made in 04 when we also had a bit of stagnation.

Beyond all of that, I don't know how the company can continually put these pairings into open time EVERY WEEK for several months. Put them in the bid packs to we can bid on them and bring the BLGs up to cover the flying that is being scheduled.

I have a huge makeup bank. I don't view it as my personal insurance policy against 4a2b. The company is wrong. Me using my hundreds of hours of makeup to mitigate my own situation at the cost of my fellow pilots might be contractually legal - but is it morally right?

The company will tell you that they're just "complying with the CBA" as well. I'm part of the "collective" in the term Collective Bargaining Agreement. If I use my personal make-up bank to subvert what's in the best interest of the majority of pilots, I am clearly a bad member of the "collective". If I use my bank to further enable the company's reprehensible behavior, how am I any better than them?

PIPE

FXDX
01-28-2010, 07:29 PM
Pipe: we are in violent agreement. I understand all of the concepts you are advancing, and I applaud your restraint.

I'd rather vent my wrath at the company instead of our fellow pilots.

AFW_MD11
01-28-2010, 08:16 PM
I have a huge makeup bank. I don't view it as my personal insurance policy against 4a2b. The company is wrong. Me using my hundreds of hours of makeup to mitigate my own situation at the cost of my fellow pilots might be contractually legal - but is it morally right?

The company will tell you that they're just "complying with the CBA" as well. I'm part of the "collective" in the term Collective Bargaining Agreement. If I use my personal make-up bank to subvert what's in the best interest of the majority of pilots, I am clearly a bad member of the "collective". If I use my bank to further enable the company's reprehensible behavior, how am I any better than them?

PIPE

The answers to your self-righteous questions depend on how you got your "huge" makeup bank in the first place.

Before you condemn those who, for whatever reason, have little or no hours in their makeup banks, perhaps you might think that there are an infinite number of ways to both increase and decrease that bank - not all of which are "morally wrong" or "reprehensible" as you suggest.

Maybe not everyone can drop trips for military leave? or has a second job/business to supplement the pay loss for dropped trips into makeup bank? or has a spouse that works who can supplement income lost by dropping trips? or is senior enough to bid carryover and conflict and leave the make up time to sit in the bank? or......or......

so.....how DID you get "hundreds of hours" into YOUR makeup bank Sparky? pretty arrogant to judge others whom you know absolutely nothing about their personal/financial/family/etc. situation, dontcha think?

the villain here is the company hiding open time to increase reserve utilization rates well beyond historical norms and to artificially depress average BLG's - not the pilots using their makeup banks.

FXDX
02-12-2010, 06:54 PM
I hate to reopen this thread, but I just had to add this from the SIG notes for March:

"This month, the ATL, CVG & SMF HSTBY’s should be available for the Secondary Lines."

Hallelujah, it is about time.

Thank you SIG!

gderek
02-12-2010, 07:11 PM
I hate to reopen this thread, but I just had to add this from the SIG notes for March:

"This month, the ATL, CVG & SMF HSTBY’s should be available for the Secondary Lines."

Hallelujah, it is about time.

Thank you SIG!

I agree it's about time but ***! Why couldn't we get the SIG notes prior to bidding. I would have bid and held a very high secondary line if I knew that these things would be in open time. I realize that the SIG is overworked and totally under-appreciated but this is sort of an abrogation of seniority isn't it? It's one thing if they didn't know about it but another if they did prior to the bid deadline. ARGH!

vschip
02-12-2010, 07:37 PM
I agree it's about time but ***! Why couldn't we get the SIG notes prior to bidding. I would have bid and held a very high secondary line if I knew that these things would be in open time. I realize that the SIG is overworked and totally under-appreciated but this is sort of an abrogation of seniority isn't it? It's one thing if they didn't know about it but another if they did prior to the bid deadline. ARGH!

Its quite simple, the SIG notes are submitted before the bidpacks even appear on pfc, but they have to go thru both Fedex and Alpa lawyers...a couple years ago, I think during contract negotiations, Alpa decided not to publish them one month after the company's lawyers had their chop on them. You have a right to be mad, just make sure you direct it in the right direction.

gderek
02-12-2010, 08:45 PM
Its quite simple, the SIG notes are submitted before the bidpacks even appear on pfc, but they have to go thru both Fedex and Alpa lawyers...a couple years ago, I think during contract negotiations, Alpa decided not to publish them one month after the company's lawyers had their chop on them. You have a right to be mad, just make sure you direct it in the right direction.


Thanks for the info. I seem to remember regularly getting the notes a day or so before the bid closed about a year ago. Am I mistaken?

DLax85
02-14-2010, 07:09 PM
I hate to reopen this thread, but I just had to add this from the SIG notes for March:

"This month, the ATL, CVG & SMF HSTBY’s should be available for the Secondary Lines."

Hallelujah, it is about time.

Thank you SIG!

It's about time they were put on normal lines.

How many months have we had these?

How many hours do they represent each month?

Every little bit counts as we are trying to build up:) (...or keep down;)) monthly BLGs.



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