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View Full Version : FDX-here comes the draft


boeingfdx
01-30-2010, 09:07 AM
MD-11 f/o open time for this afternoon!! (noon LBT)
I'm assuming they are in open time due to insufficient reserve coverage.


2074 AUG 30JAN 30JAN 0842 02FEB 0636 1902 RFO
2506 30JAN 30JAN 0824 30JAN 1600 414 F/O
365 30JAN 30JAN 2105 31JAN 1602 607 F/O M10
474 30JAN 30JAN 2120 31JAN 1740 749 F/O M10
2481 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2200 31JAN 1604 600 F/O M10
2471 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2210 31JAN 1848 727 F/O M10
2484 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2210 31JAN 2247 917 F/O M10
2474 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2225 31JAN 1629 600 F/O M10
2477 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2230 31JAN 1827 832 F/O M10
2468 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2240 31JAN 1754 624 F/O M10
2485 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2245 31JAN 1426 600 F/O M10
2497 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2245 31JAN 1710 610 F/O M10
2498 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2300 31JAN 1849 748 F/O M10
2478 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2315 31JAN 1718 600 F/O M10
2496 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2330 31JAN 1615 600 F/O M10
2499 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2330 31JAN 1825 658 F/O M10


I'm not smart enough to make them links.

Ice storm and 4a2b reserve levels don't exactly mix. I guess PC has job security because he is willing to screw us over as much as needed.

Looks like plenty of -11 Capts have stepped up to the draft plate.


2cylinderdriver
01-30-2010, 09:18 AM
MD-11 f/o open time for this afternoon!! (noon LBT)
I'm assuming they are in open time due to insufficient reserve coverage.


2074 AUG 30JAN 30JAN 0842 02FEB 0636 1902 RFO
2506 30JAN 30JAN 0824 30JAN 1600 414 F/O
365 30JAN 30JAN 2105 31JAN 1602 607 F/O M10
474 30JAN 30JAN 2120 31JAN 1740 749 F/O M10
2481 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2200 31JAN 1604 600 F/O M10
2471 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2210 31JAN 1848 727 F/O M10
2484 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2210 31JAN 2247 917 F/O M10
2474 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2225 31JAN 1629 600 F/O M10
2477 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2230 31JAN 1827 832 F/O M10
2468 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2240 31JAN 1754 624 F/O M10
2485 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2245 31JAN 1426 600 F/O M10
2497 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2245 31JAN 1710 610 F/O M10
2498 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2300 31JAN 1849 748 F/O M10
2478 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2315 31JAN 1718 600 F/O M10
2496 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2330 31JAN 1615 600 F/O M10
2499 XTRA 30JAN 30JAN 2330 31JAN 1825 658 F/O M10


I'm not smart enough to make them links.

Ice storm and 4a2b reserve levels don't exactly mix. I guess PC has job security because he is willing to screw us over as much as needed.

Looks like plenty of -11 Capts have stepped up to the draft plate.

On point, except one little word. Replace "plate" with "trough" and that makes in perfect! Perfectly nauseating.:mad:

HDawg
01-30-2010, 09:50 AM
Maybe they are calling in the A team, you know.... "When you need the TD you give the ball to the ones that perform."


Lindy
01-30-2010, 11:09 AM
FWIW, Crew Scheduling started calling crews with afternoon launches "changing" their showtimes via telephone BUT NOT IN VIPS.

They want crews to show 3 1/2 hours later than their original show times. (These are not X-pairings, but normally scheduled trips).

Not eligible for RAT because it is less than 4 hours.

IMHO, FDX is trying to circumvent the 16 hour duty.

fedupbusdriver
01-30-2010, 11:18 AM
My pairing was changed to show and T/O 2hrs late.

Bitme
01-30-2010, 11:18 AM
Maybe they are calling in the A team, you know.... "When you need the TD you give the ball to the ones that perform."

A late in life comment from Joe Paterno when asked if he would do anything different if he could go back in time;

I would play performance instead of potential.

Laughing_Jakal
01-30-2010, 11:21 AM
Actually,

If they didnt' change the pairing in VIPS, then I am assuming the showtime is still the "Scheduled Pairing Showtime" in VIPS. Maybe they were actually trying to save everyone the time at home for a change. Take your time coming in so you don't kill yourself coming in.

I am not real motivated to do extra right now, but JB in his FCIF indicated they were trying to keep crews at the Hotel as long as possible while in the field and not just bring them in because they can. He's always seemed to me to be a common sense, "stand-up guy".

Maybe I'm wrong....I sat this one out at home, listening to the trees crash down around me.

Bitme
01-30-2010, 11:22 AM
FWIW, Crew Scheduling started calling crews with afternoon launches "changing" their showtimes via telephone BUT NOT IN VIPS.

They want crews to show 3 1/2 hours later than their original show times. (These are not X-pairings, but normally scheduled trips).

Not eligible for RAT because it is less than 4 hours.

IMHO, FDX is trying to circumvent the 16 hour duty.

Duty starts at original show or beginning of R day. Sounds like they did not want to give people excuses to deny the change thus putting them in further hurt locker. For those of you on reserve don't forget putting in the FAR extension pay if you go over 13+30 duty.

Lindy
01-30-2010, 11:42 AM
FDX was right to cancel the FRI afternoon sort.

Last night, the weather didn't cooperate and now the system is 4 to 8 hours late. We are playing catch-up, being on a Sat/Sun, looks like things will be back to normal Sun night (just like JB's email).

Sure, the courtesy phone call was "nice" but it doesn't affect me. I (and a few others) were already here.

It is a rough day for a lot of folks and I should have waited to see what the release states for Duty Times before I formulated a conspiracy theorist opinion :p

fedupbusdriver
01-30-2010, 12:00 PM
Just looked at my release, and it is based on the original showtime.

FR8Hauler
01-30-2010, 12:59 PM
Actually,

If they didnt' change the pairing in VIPS, then I am assuming the showtime is still the "Scheduled Pairing Showtime" in VIPS. Maybe they were actually trying to save everyone the time at home for a change. Take your time coming in so you don't kill yourself coming in.

I am not real motivated to do extra right now, but JB in his FCIF indicated they were trying to keep crews at the Hotel as long as possible while in the field and not just bring them in because they can. He's always seemed to me to be a common sense, "stand-up guy".

Maybe I'm wrong....I sat this one out at home, listening to the trees crash down around me.

I beg to differ...

kronan
01-30-2010, 02:36 PM
Going to be an expensive weekend.
Thank Goodness mgt decided to minimize reserve coverage by spreading out the flying more.

Lindy
01-30-2010, 10:33 PM
For crew duty, which paperwork would YOU use?

1. Original Trip Show Time, biometrically checked-in, FP/R for the trip flown (depicting the 16 hour duty day)

Or

2. Revised Trip Pairing depicting a 3 1/2 hour later show (revised after crew pushed) [See earlier post about Crew Scheduling "courtesy call"]

fdxShark
01-31-2010, 12:58 AM
For crew duty, which paperwork would YOU use?

1. Original Trip Show Time, biometrically checked-in, FP/R for the trip flown (depicting the 16 hour duty day)

Or

2. Revised Trip Pairing depicting a 3 1/2 hour later show (revised after crew pushed) [See earlier post about Crew Scheduling "courtesy call"]

Not trying to be difficult, but what time in the spectrum of the 3 1/2 hours did you actually show? There's a few issues in play. Not only duty day, but possibly trip pay if it is based on tafb.

Lindy
01-31-2010, 05:13 AM
I showed biometrically approximately :30 minutes PRIOR to the ORIGINAL scheduled show time. There were several at us already at the airport when the "courtesy calls" began by crew scheduling.

The trip is a TAFB, but there *might* be a few minutes of extra pay with the elongated duty, but this post isn't about pay.

The post is about the absurdity of Crew Scheduling modifying duty periods DOMESTICALLY, after crews are at the AOC, effectually giving crews the ability to "help the company out" with a 19 1/2 hour duty day.

Upon arrival at our destination, we had 9 1/2 hours of duty or 13 hours of duty, depending which paperwork was utilized. Luckily, we did not have to play, "hey, you have a flight back to MEM or another leg to XXX tonight."

The cruxx of the problem is the hypothetical that did not occur (luckily).

Calls to crewmembers in the field, delaying their show time was 100% the best idea.


I do NOT want to see this as a "new" practice for crew scheduling. Those of you have been lucky enough to sit this one out, but wouldn't you like to know how schedules were modified?

(This post does not apply to international pairings, where an alert call is delayed by many hours and the duty period begins at the new show time).

MD11Fr8Dog
01-31-2010, 05:42 AM
The post is about the absurdity of Crew Scheduling modifying duty periods DOMESTICALLY, after crews are at the AOC, effectually giving crews the ability to "help the company out" with a 19 1/2 hour duty day.

Upon arrival at our destination, we had 9 1/2 hours of duty or 13 hours of duty, depending which paperwork was utilized. Luckily, we did not have to play, "hey, you have a flight back to MEM or another leg to XXX tonight."

The cruxx of the problem is the hypothetical that did not occur (luckily).

The way I see it is, if they give me a "courtesy call" during my scheduled time off/crewrest either puts me on duty starting at the time of that call, or resets my rest period to start anew.

kronan
01-31-2010, 06:40 AM
The way I see it is, if they give me a "courtesy call" during my scheduled time off/crewrest either puts me on duty starting at the time of that call, or resets my rest period to start anew.

The way the Feds see it is 1 phone call is allowed. Second link Q-35, adobe page 17 is exact situation.
http://cf.alpa.org/Internet/Projects/FTDT/DoNotCall_fullopinion.PDF

http://crewroom.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsView.aspx?itemid=842&ModuleId=1191&Tabid=104

The way the Feds view it is that answering the phone is a voluntary act. No one made you pick up that phone in the hotel and you weren't required to do so by contract.
Doesn't mean that a phone call at 3 AM is okay and gets a freebie, but every pilot is supposed to evaluate their actual rest and determine whether they are sufficiently rested for the trip or should call in fatigued.

IMO, if the trip was revised prior to my making it to the ramp. Then I'd go with the revised time as the starting point of my duty. No revision for me to print prior to heading to the airplane, then I'd go with the original time and file an ASAP report if I found out later that CRS revised the pairing I was operating on after blockout. That is BS, and I'd rather self report the company in the same way they have self reported pilots for violating 8/24 in the past

Lindy
01-31-2010, 09:17 AM
Agree with the information regarding the phone call. It has been the standard for years.

When we stepped out of AOC, FP/R and Pairing had the original showtime. NO CHANGES.

Upon arrival at destnation, crew notification stating pairing had been revised to depict a show time 3 1/2 hours after original.

BTW, we stepped out if AOC approximately 4 hours after our original showtime, with our 4th FP/R.

The last few days have been very dynamic. JB also said in his email (paraphrasing) "if something seems unsafe, slow down" and correct the issue. Trying to correct the issue so it is not NORMAL operating procedure for future weather events.....

Oh, the "courtesy call" was 1:15 prior to original show.

This affected a very small number of guys yesterday; fresh crews beginning in MEM, whom were already in AOC (not home or in the hotel). I would like to reiterate that this is a precedent that I do not want to see.

If you check-in at AOC, on your original pairing, then the original duty begins.

If subsequent revisions are made to your pairing, the original duty SHOULD NEVER be modified.

To me it looks black and white. A "courtesy call" does not abrogate the need for a pairing revision, to protect both the company and crewmember.

MD11Fr8Dog
01-31-2010, 09:41 AM
The way the Feds see it is 1 phone call is allowed. Second link Q-35, adobe page 17 is exact situation.
http://cf.alpa.org/Internet/Projects/FTDT/DoNotCall_fullopinion.PDF

http://crewroom.alpa.org/DesktopModules/ALPA_Documents/ALPA_DocumentsView.aspx?itemid=842&ModuleId=1191&Tabid=104

The way the Feds view it is that answering the phone is a voluntary act. No one made you pick up that phone in the hotel and you weren't required to do so by contract.
Doesn't mean that a phone call at 3 AM is okay and gets a freebie, but every pilot is supposed to evaluate their actual rest and determine whether they are sufficiently rested for the trip or should call in fatigued.

IMO, if the trip was revised prior to my making it to the ramp. Then I'd go with the revised time as the starting point of my duty. No revision for me to print prior to heading to the airplane, then I'd go with the original time and file an ASAP report if I found out later that CRS revised the pairing I was operating on after blockout. That is BS, and I'd rather self report the company in the same way they have self reported pilots for violating 8/24 in the past

Like I said, "As I see it" ;)

AFW_MD11
01-31-2010, 10:11 AM
Are they still drafting for MEM11 FO's for Sunday afternoon trips? out of RB guys? RA guys? or are things getting back to "normal"?

kronan
01-31-2010, 10:45 AM
Like I said, "As I see it" ;)

Understood it, that's why I said the Federales versus calling you a stuck in the mud stubborn SOB out to sabotage the company and force me out of a job... JK,
lighten up Francis :D

Lindy, I hope you'll highlight your situation somewhere other than APC. My suggestion would be to copy the crew notification with the time posted/ time received block and zap it to your ACP and ALPA, and compared with the schedule and times you actually worked. I would also copy the info over to NASA
ASRS - Aviation Safety Reporting System (http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/)

I prefer to think changing the schedule after the fact resulted from CRS behing behind the power curve rather than a conscious decision in an attempt to avoid FAR extension pay and maximze duty time.
However, regardless of the reasons, a change after the fact is simply unacceptable.

A 1+15 prior to show to change duty time is unrealistic, and, personally, I would have worked my way up the chain to make CRS put a stby period into the pairing (for WX, so no disruption pay, damn contract). Benefit of the stby is that it would give CRS an idea of just how far I'm willing to stretch my day, assuming I think I can still safely operate the trip. (I'm not willing to go to 16 hours after a revised show time, depending upon how I feel-might be willing to go to 16 hours from the original show time. But that depends upon me, not upon the company declaring an operational emergency)

This is just me, but I never answer the phone in my hotel. And I never answer my cell if I don't know who's calling me, especially if it's a 901 area code. If it's CRS, I have at least 15 mins to try and figure out what they want to do with me and whether it's something I want to do. Maybe take the time to refresh my memory of the contract. Whatever I do, don't want to walk into the phone conversion without an idea of what's going on.

Don't get me wrong. Want to help the company if I can. But the amount I'm willing to help is written down in the contract and determined by my evaluation of whether I think I can safely operate the trip.
I'm not a just say NO to anything the company wants because we're in 4A2B. I want the company to be so profitable that when we hit contract negotiations that there's no way they can hide the money. I want the company's profits to be so large that even when they come after us with the "average cost of a pilot" is lower than it was 10 yrs ago so we need to adjust the FedEx pilots wage scales to reality or freeze pay, we can say no way in heck.



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