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HazCan
02-01-2010, 03:56 PM
I am familiar with the FAA's Whitlow Letter, which basically says that time spent on reserve is not duty, but it's not rest either. In that, it says you have to be able to look back in any 24 hour period and find 8 consecutive hours of rest. There isn't anything that circumvents this when operating under Pt. 121 Supplemental (like FDX does), is there? Just curious, I'm trying to head something off before it starts...


BusSkyflyer
02-01-2010, 04:29 PM
The applicability of the Whitlow letter is isolated to Domestic only. Flag and Supplemental are not considered.

Actual flight determines when you can not continue, not duty time. If an opertor conducting operations under flag or supplemental alway kept the actual flight time under 8 hours in any floating 24 hour period, no rest would be required (for 2 pilot aircraft) until the 7th calendar day - when 24 hours free of duty would be required.

121.503
(a) A certificate holder conducting supplemental operations may schedule a pilot to fly in an airplane for eight hours or less during any 24 consecutive hours without a rest period during those eight hours.
(b) Each pilot who has flown more than eight hours during any 24 consecutive hours must be given at least 16 hours of rest before being assigned to any duty with the certificate holder

121.505 Flight time limitations: Two pilot crews: airplanes.
(a) If a certificate holder conducting supplemental operations schedules a pilot to fly more than eight hours during any 24 consecutive hours, it shall give him an intervening rest period at or before the end of eight scheduled hours of flight duty. This rest period must be at least twice the number of hours flown since the preceding rest period, but not less than eight hours. The certificate holder conducting supplemental operations shall relieve that pilot of all duty with it during that rest period

HazCan
02-01-2010, 04:55 PM
Here's what I am looking at. I start reserve at 1930z. Trip showtime is 0305z (not 8 hours between the two, not a legal rest period). End of duty for trip is 1215z. Looking back from 1215z, I don't have 8 hours of rest anywhere. Hopefully this helps...


golfandfly
02-01-2010, 05:14 PM
Haz,

If your flight is domestic, it is not a legal pairing. You have to complete your duty within 4 hours after the end of your RP. In this case, your RP ends at 0730Z. Your trip needs to terminate by 1130z. If this trip is international, you're screwed. They could call you at 0729Z with a trip to Narita (not too likely unless you are flying the 777 or MD).

HazCan
02-01-2010, 05:43 PM
Haz,

If your flight is domestic, it is not a legal pairing. You have to complete your duty within 4 hours after the end of your RP. In this case, your RP ends at 0730Z. Your trip needs to terminate by 1130z. If this trip is international, you're screwed. They could call you at 0729Z with a trip to Narita (not too likely unless you are flying the 777 or MD).

Roger that, thanks.

Unknown Rider
02-01-2010, 06:05 PM
Haz,

If your flight is domestic, it is not a legal pairing. You have to complete your duty within 4 hours after the end of your RP. In this case, your RP ends at 0730Z. Your trip needs to terminate by 1130z. If this trip is international, you're screwed. They could call you at 0729Z with a trip to Narita (not too likely unless you are flying the 777 or MD).

Also, the trip needs to land by 1100z so that you have 30 minutes to complete paperwork etc.

viperdriver
02-01-2010, 06:28 PM
Is Canada and Mexico domestic or international in regard to this? By the way there was a Mem-Vancouver-Mem in 23 hours TAFB las night assigned to Reserve. Over 8 in 24 I guess 9 is OK and you rest after that on your own time?

DiamondZ
02-01-2010, 07:16 PM
Guess with 4a2b and Op Emergency all bets are off til called on it.

ptarmigan
02-01-2010, 07:37 PM
Is Canada and Mexico domestic or international in regard to this? By the way there was a Mem-Vancouver-Mem in 23 hours TAFB las night assigned to Reserve. Over 8 in 24 I guess 9 is OK and you rest after that on your own time?

It is considered International unless the carrier has applied for, and received, an op spec exemption to operate it under domestic duty rules.

Also, remember that "domestic" doesn't mean that it applies to a supplemental carrier flying domestically, it only applies to "Domestic" under the CFR, as opposed to Flag or Supplemental.

Busboy
02-01-2010, 07:43 PM
Is Canada and Mexico domestic or international in regard to this? By the way there was a Mem-Vancouver-Mem in 23 hours TAFB las night assigned to Reserve. Over 8 in 24 I guess 9 is OK and you rest after that on your own time?

You can be scheduled to fly over 8hrs in a 24hr period. You just need an intervening rest period.

golfandfly
02-01-2010, 07:58 PM
Domestic trips: You can actually exceed 8 hours in 24 if you received enough rest between flights (see 12.C.2.b). The Vancouver trip is legal per our contract. This trip could be planned using domestic rest rules or international 12.D.1.C.i.


I had a BQN trip several months ago and thought I was going to exceed 8 in 24 and was referred to the above contract sections.

AFW_MD11
02-02-2010, 07:38 AM
Don't quote me, but I believe the situation is a DOMESTIC reserve pilot (or reserve pilot flying DOMESTIC trip) has to have 9 hours free from duty in the last 24 looking back from the scheduled termination (release time) of the trip - (8 hours rest if certain parameters are met - called reduced rest.)

note: I'm pretty sure this is not even be applicable to Part 121 Supplemental Operations - FedEx - (like it is not applicable to international - and flag - operations)

ALPA is trying to get the FAA in it's ARC (after the Colgan Air accident) to INCLUDE cargo (supplemental) operations in these new rules when they make them - but nothing new/official has come out of the ARC yet.

So...in essence....for Part 121 (non-supplemental) a max duty day of 15 hours (depending on how "duty" and "rest" are defined)

No such limitations for INTERNATIONAL (or 121 Supplemental) - just FAR and contractual rest requirements dictate.

Here's a couple of good links I found Googling "domestic reserve rest"

http://cf.alpa.org/internet/projects.../newfaa9pg.pdf

and

http://cf.alpa.org/internet/projects...farmaxduty.pdf



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