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View Full Version : FDX: Mil leave jumpseating


veez737
02-02-2010, 07:29 PM
While they're still "working on the computer glitch", can we Jumpseat on other carriers while not in CASS? Is there any official documentation anywhere that we can present to a gate agent to convince them to let us on?
Any Fedex guys on mil leave have any recent Jumpseat experience on other carriers?
Thanks


PurpleTail
02-02-2010, 07:34 PM
I am not prior military so I do not have first hand knowledge BUT if you are on mil leave it is my understanding that YES, you may jumpseat. You will not be in the CASS system so you will not be cockpit eligible but if an empty seat in the back is available you can ride.

Your FDX ID at the gate should suffice.

Good luck.

Tractor Bob
02-03-2010, 02:00 AM
I have tried while on mil leave and told at the gate that since you are not in CASS, but should be, they can't verify your privileges and therefore no jumpseat. In front or back. That was on AA and CAL.

That was a few years ago, maybe something has changed.


SC-7
02-03-2010, 02:32 AM
Latest word from the ACP when I asked recently was: let us know when you want to go, we'll have to send a letter to jumpseats so they'll be able to book you. This is on FDX, so I suspect what tractor bob says about offline is right on.

That's contrary to what was advertised earlier.

SaltyDog
02-03-2010, 04:45 AM
From the sidelines: Sounds like a semantics issue with TSA and management.

Gunter
02-03-2010, 05:29 AM
This is another one of those "I'll look into it" issues OR is aware of. It ended up like the others. (Accepted fares, deviate one leg/deviate all)


FedEx POLICY is to take you out of everything if you go on mil leave. They claim they can't easily 'change' the system to keep you in. BS. They don't want to keep you in the system. Other places do. FedEx does extra work to yank you out and then put you back in, even for as little as 2 weeks of leave. Another example of when they want to spend man hours on a project they will. When they don't they come up with excuses not to.

I don't think they want to "reward" you for your mil service by maintaining your employee privileges. It's a confused work ethic oriented point of view.

Think about this kind of stuff when they thank you for your professionalism and mil service. Behind the scenes they want to make it difficult to go on mil leave.

Tractor Bob
02-03-2010, 12:25 PM
My buddies at AA, CAL, JB, etc all keep their CASS rights while on Mil Leave. And I agree, it probably just a semantics issue with the airlines. We can track a package while in flight, worldwide, but can't change a line of code. Go figure.

kalyx522
02-03-2010, 12:27 PM
I don't think they want to "reward" you for your mil service by maintaining your employee privileges. It's a confused work ethic oriented point of view.



Hi,
I don't work for Fedex but I am headed to the reserves in a bit, and am curious about this situation as well. It sounds to me like Fedex doesn't allow pilots on mil leave to cabin jumpseat. My regional does not let mil leave guys maintain their travel benefits (nonrev) either. I'm wondering, is this legal? I happened to glance at that ubiquitous federal work law poster the other day and for USERRA it stated that employers cannot deny you "any benefit of employment." I would think travel benefits would fall under this category.

SaltyDog
02-03-2010, 04:17 PM
Hi,
I don't work for Fedex but I am headed to the reserves in a bit, and am curious about this situation as well. It sounds to me like Fedex doesn't allow pilots on mil leave to cabin jumpseat. My regional does not let mil leave guys maintain their travel benefits (nonrev) either. I'm wondering, is this legal? I happened to glance at that ubiquitous federal work law poster the other day and for USERRA it stated that employers cannot deny you "any benefit of employment." I would think travel benefits would fall under this category.

kalyx522,
USERRA is a good statute written in current form in 1994, but it was written in a very broad sense to cover all employers and maximum view of common situations to promote an all volunteer military. It does not specifically address every new rule like CASS. CASS is a post statute invention. Therefore, it requires a well written document that meets all federal requirements and concerns at a particular employer. There is no single arbitor of the USERRA statute. Just like TSA ad the FAA have folks dedicated to our individual airlines, these same folks and managements have a variation of interpretations of FAR's and TSA rules.
Regarding benefits. USERRA specifically addresses vacation and pensions. It does not specifically address non rev benefits. USERRA simply states that a military member on military duty must be treated the same as someone else who is not flying airplanes for a time. Example: You are treated on military duty in a non paid status. That is fine under USERRA. However, you must be treated like any other employee on a non paid status at your employer. If other pilots are allowed non rev benefits at your employer while in a non paid status, then you must be accorded same benefits. If your company excludes these pilots from using non rev benefits while in this status, then it is USERRA legal to exclude you too. This can vary from employer to employer.
Hope this helps.

sryan423
02-15-2010, 12:46 PM
I'm on military leave from FedEx. I just completed a trip from Denver to LA. On the way out to LA Southwest understood I was not in CASS, but still eligible for a seat in the back. On the way back to DEN United would not clear me for the front or the back. They claim the computer will not let them clear us for a seat in the back. Frontier understood the situation and I was able to ride on them. About a month ago I also was able to ride in the back with American.

hamfisted
02-15-2010, 02:25 PM
Maybe the NEXT SCP will address this instead of just making empty promises to fix it.

RogAir
02-15-2010, 02:32 PM
I recently jumpseated SFO-DEN on Frontier and the issue never came up (rode in back). Coming home on SWA the two gate agents argued between themselves whether I was able to ride at all. Luckily the pro-jumpseater won and I got to SFO in the back. I've heard FDX has decided they will not "fix" the problem, i.e. they are going to continue to go the extra mile to take us out of CASS.

RogAir
02-15-2010, 02:35 PM
Also; remember it is not the gate agents jumpseat, it is the Captains. If you can get a hold of him/her, I'll bet you get on 99% of the time (in back, if seat available). CASS is just for the cockpit, your ID and med cert. gets you in the back.

CargoCan
02-15-2010, 03:40 PM
This is another one of those "I'll look into it" issues OR is aware of. It ended up like the others. (Accepted fares, deviate one leg/deviate all)


FedEx POLICY is to take you out of everything if you go on mil leave. They claim they can't easily 'change' the system to keep you in. BS. They don't want to keep you in the system. Other places do. FedEx does extra work to yank you out and then put you back in, even for as little as 2 weeks of leave. Another example of when they want to spend man hours on a project they will. When they don't they come up with excuses not to.

I don't think they want to "reward" you for your mil service by maintaining your employee privileges. It's a confused work ethic oriented point of view.

Think about this kind of stuff when they thank you for your professionalism and mil service. Behind the scenes they want to make it difficult to go on mil leave.


Really? I frequently submit mil leave for a week or two at a time and it has never affected my ability to jumpseat, bid, etc. I was of the understanding that it only happens when you drop more than 31 days of mil leave.

golfandfly
02-15-2010, 05:36 PM
Fedex isn't overly pro-military even though the majority of the pilots (and probably managers) were military. It also seems that, in this age of "overmanning", they would encourage military leave and help us out a little. I am not sure why they want to make it difficult to jumpseat when they should be bending over backwards to keep us off property. Especially when it doesn't cost anything....

If we are truly overmanned, they should encourage military leave to the max extent possible. From a management prospective, I would work with the union to make going long term military leave as enticing as possible. For those that have been out for awhile, the Guard and Reserves are hard work now for most of us. While I do take a pay cut to serve my country, I do get some satisfaction from it.

Jetjok
02-16-2010, 03:30 AM
golfandfly,

Why would you think that it is in FedEx's best interests for guys to be out on military leave? FedEx would like nothing more than to have as many guys on property as possible, all earning less than they are now. That way, they have a ready group of pilots, all (or many) of whom would be: picking up open time; flying make up vacation; make up sick; volunteering; drafting; bidding and then flying carryover; etc, etc. Oh, wait a minute.....that's what's happening now. No. It's not in the company's best interest to leave themselves short on flexibility, when they can just cut the pay of everyone on the property and still have the flexibility they need to operate the way they want.

JJ

golfandfly
02-16-2010, 05:17 AM
JJ,

I guess you are probably right. I don't see the union winning the 4.a.2.b. grievance but maybe it will encourage them to stop cutting BLGs. Maybe then they will actually try and find a better solution....

Oh well.....

pipe
02-17-2010, 09:45 AM
Really? I frequently submit mil leave for a week or two at a time and it has never affected my ability to jumpseat, bid, etc. I was of the understanding that it only happens when you drop more than 31 days of mil leave.

MLA greater than 14 days consecutive -- then they hose you. Been through it a few times.

PIPE

Gunter
02-17-2010, 12:52 PM
Just to reiterate.

If we were working to 'prevent or delay a furlough' they would make taking leave of any kind less painful. But they don't really want guys to take leave. They want them around to suck up the hours not included in the bid packs. Otherwise they have to build lines higher and/or pay draft.

Fly FDX
02-17-2010, 01:32 PM
One reason they take you out of the system is to hopefully not have to pay you all your vacation days.

CargoCan
02-19-2010, 05:51 PM
MLA greater than 14 days consecutive -- then they hose you. Been through it a few times.

PIPE

Pipe, Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize it was a consecutive day issue. You probably saved me some future headaches!

RogAir
02-21-2010, 01:23 PM
One reason they take you out of the system is to hopefully not have to pay you all your vacation days.

What about your sick leave? Do they reduce it if you are out on ML?

Jetjok
02-21-2010, 02:14 PM
Reduce your sick leave for what? No, I don't believe they reduce it at all. When you return to full time flying at FedEx, you then start to re-accrue your sick bank at the contractual rate. I believe the same is said for vacation time. When you're out on military leave, or sick leave, or any other type of time away from the company, you do not accrue vacation time. At least that's the way I understand that stuff. As well, remember that you're not paid for vacation that you earn in the current year, you're paid for the time you earned in the previous year.

JJ

Sluggo_63
02-21-2010, 06:11 PM
Reduce your sick leave for what? No, I don't believe they reduce it at all. When you return to full time flying at FedEx, you then start to re-accrue your sick bank at the contractual rate. I believe the same is said for vacation time. When you're out on military leave, or sick leave, or any other type of time away from the company, you do not accrue vacation time. At least that's the way I understand that stuff. As well, remember that you're not paid for vacation that you earn in the current year, you're paid for the time you earned in the previous year.

JJ7.B.2. If a pilot does not complete 10 months in an active pay status during a calendar year due to retirement, furlough, disability, or unpaid leave(s) of absence (Section 13), other than leave due to on-the-job injury, he shall not be entitled to the full accrual as per Section 7.B.1 (above). That pilot's vacation accrual shall be 1/10th of the full accrual for each calendar month the pilot is in an active pay status. For purposes of this paragraph, a month shall be counted if the pilot is not retired, or on furlough, disability or unpaid leave of absence for more than 15 days during that month.

The Walrus
02-21-2010, 06:19 PM
7.B.2. If a pilot does not complete 10 months in an active pay status during a calendar year due to retirement, furlough, disability, or unpaid leave(s) of absence (Section 13), other than leave due to on-the-job injury, he shall not be entitled to the full accrual as per Section 7.B.1 (above). That pilot's vacation accrual shall be 1/10th of the full accrual for each calendar month the pilot is in an active pay status. For purposes of this paragraph, a month shall be counted if the pilot is not retired, or on furlough, disability or unpaid leave of absence for more than 15 days during that month.

Which means that you do not accrue sick leave will you are gone. They do not take previously earned sick leave away from you.

Sluggo_63
02-22-2010, 04:44 AM
Which means that you do not accrue sick leave will you are gone. They do not take previously earned sick leave away from you.It looks like they may. That other paragraph only dealt with vacation accrual. Here's what the contract says about sick leave.

14.C Sick Leave-Regular Sick Account
A pilot's regular sick account shall be credited as follows:

1. A pilot in active pay status on the first day of the first bid period of each calendar year shall be credited with 72 CH on that day.
2. A pilot not in active pay status on the first day of the first bid period of a calendar year shall be credited with 6 CH for each bid period remaining in the calendar year beginning with the bid period in which he returns to paid status, subject to Section 14.C.5. (below).
3. During the calendar year in which a pilot is hired, he shall be credited with 6 CH for each bid period remaining in such calendar year, subject to Section 14.C.5. (below).
4. If a pilot is placed in an inactive pay status following the first day of the first bid period of a calendar year, his regular sick account shall be reduced by 6 CH for each bid period during which he is in an unpaid status during the remainder of the calendar year. If the balance in his regular sick account is insufficient to make the adjustment, then the adjustment shall be made from the pilot's disability sick account. This adjustment shall occur before the pilot's regular sick account balance is converted and credited to his disability sick account or surplus program, as applicable.
5. If a pilot is in an active pay status for less than one half of a bid period, that bid period shall not count for purposes of sick leave accrual.

Jetjok
02-22-2010, 05:28 AM
In 14.C (1) above, I believe that although you're credited with 72 hours of sick, if you're not on the property for (say) 7 months of that upcoming year, at the end of the year, or when you return to active FedEx service, those hours (6CH * 7 = 42 CH's) are taken away from your bank, for the simple reason that you didn't earn them. In my opinion, that doesn't mean that they are taking hours away from you, it means that they are adjusting your sick hours to what you actually earned, because those 72 hours put in your bank at the beginning of the year are there, assuming that you will be on property for the full 12 months. If you're not, then you really hadn't earned those hours, and so the company takes them away. Doesn't that seem fair?

JJ

Sluggo_63
02-22-2010, 05:33 AM
In 14.C (1) above, I believe that although you're credited with 72 hours of sick, if you're not on the property for (say) 7 months of that upcoming year, at the end of the year, or when you return to active FedEx service, those hours (6CH * 7 = 42 CH's) are taken away from your bank, for the simple reason that you didn't earn them. In my opinion, that doesn't mean that they are taking hours away from you, it means that they are adjusting your sick hours to what you actually earned, because those 72 hours put in your bank at the beginning of the year are there, assuming that you will be on property for the full 12 months. If you're not, then you really hadn't earned those hours, and so the company takes them away. Doesn't that seem fair?

JJI agree... I wasn't saying it wasn't fair. Just putting out there what the contract says.

For vacation, you could be gone for two whole months, and then be gone for 2 weeks every month for the rest of the year, and still get full vacation.

For sick you could be gone two weeks every month and not lose any sick.

And these paragraphs don't differentiate between the types of "leaves of absence," so it's not just military absences, any LOA will fall under those paragraphs.

RogAir
02-22-2010, 08:45 AM
I heard an argument go like this:
1. USERRA says you can not treat a ML'er any differently than a regular employee when it comes to retirement (example: B Fund gets funded while on ML)
2. Somewhat unique to FDX, a pilots unused sick leave gets deposited into his Retirement account (once accruing to a certain level).
3. For this reason, FDX has to by law, give each ML'er 72 hours of sick leave/yr even if he is on ML the entire year; to do so otherwise would be treating him differently than a regular employee.


Thoughts?