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MD11Fr8Dog
02-04-2010, 10:26 AM
FedEx gets FAA approach ban exemption (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/01/26/337651/fedex-gets-faa-approach-ban-exemption.html)


FR8Hauler
02-04-2010, 10:37 AM
FedEx gets FAA approach ban exemption (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/01/26/337651/fedex-gets-faa-approach-ban-exemption.html)

I can't wait to do this! CAT I RVR's are only for the other guys we are exempt from them. What could possibly go wrong?

FDXLAG
02-04-2010, 10:55 AM
Sounds like the approach section of the FOM just doubled in size.


MaydayMark
02-04-2010, 11:03 AM
Just in case you were wondering why FedEx bought those REALLY expensive HUD's?

NoHaz
02-04-2010, 12:34 PM
cool.... additional training/procedures for the 11

MD11Fr8Dog
02-04-2010, 12:54 PM
cool.... additional training/procedures for the 11

Already happening - HUD training

parks31
02-04-2010, 01:22 PM
The article forgot to mention when the 727 will be getting them installed..

Booyakasha!
02-04-2010, 01:25 PM
The article forgot to mention when the 727 will be getting them installed..


The s/o will be issued NVG's and an extra long grease pencil to draw on the capt's windshield.

ANCSDF
02-04-2010, 01:30 PM
The lengths FedEx will go to compete with UPS is very bizarre. Even at the expense of safety it seems.

J Dawg
02-04-2010, 02:01 PM
The lengths FedEx will go to compete with UPS is very bizarre. Even at the expense of safety it seems.

Hmmm lets see. FedEx on the Left, UPS on the right. Yeah I can see how UPS is safer (not!).


http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=32596



Go straighten out some magazines. There's a couple in the corner you missed.

notadog
02-04-2010, 02:08 PM
FedEx's MD11s aren't CAT II/III?

FDXLAG
02-04-2010, 02:15 PM
FedEx's MD11s aren't CAT II/III?

Maybe some of the fields they go to aren't.

FR8Hauler
02-04-2010, 03:05 PM
Maybe some of the fields they go to aren't.

What they are saying is that with all these fancy systems we basically can shoot CAT III approaches at a CAT I airfield.

onetime
02-04-2010, 04:44 PM
What they are saying is that with all these fancy systems we basically can shoot CAT III approaches at a CAT I airfield.
By we, you actually mean the Captain as the F/O won't be seeing very much.

FR8Hauler
02-04-2010, 04:47 PM
By we, you actually mean the Captain as the F/O won't be seeing very much.

And that should scare the you know what out of you!

onetime
02-04-2010, 04:54 PM
And that should scare the you know what out of you!
Yes it does. We have some great captains. We also have some not so great captains. The same goes for F/Os too. We won't be seeing anything that could help crew coordination when it counts.

hyperone
02-04-2010, 06:07 PM
The F/O's will be monitoring the Primary Flight Display inside, just like they do now for a standard Cat III approach. Not much of a difference.
Having used a similar system in my previous life in the Navy, I can't say enough about how much a HUD with a EFVS, FLIR overlay image can increase safety, SA, and comfort level (at least for the captain) on a low-vis approach.
We used to regularly be able to see the runway from 4 to 5 miles out when the tower was calling 1/2 mile vis (and lying through their teeth, because they knew we could see the field with our FLIR through the HUD or through NVG's).
I look at HUD's the same way I look at Macs. Ask anyone who has ever owned/used one, and they'll swear they never want to go back to the old way of doing things.

onetime
02-04-2010, 06:13 PM
The F/O's will be monitoring the Primary Flight Display inside, just like they do now for a standard Cat III approach. Not much of a difference.
Having used a similar system in my previous life in the Navy, I can't say enough about how much a HUD with a EFVS, FLIR overlay image can increase safety, SA, and comfort level (at least for the captain) on a low-vis approach.
We used to regularly be able to see the runway from 4 to 5 miles out when the tower was calling 1/2 mile vis (and lying through their teeth, because they knew we could see the field with our FLIR through the HUD or through NVG's).
I look at HUD's the same way I look at Macs. Ask anyone who has ever owned/used one, and they'll swear they never want to go back to the old way of doing things.I too have lots of HUD time w/FLIR on the AF side and I swear by them. I'm currently in the MD right seat, so now I'll just be swearing w/o one. A fundamental difference between the current procedures for CAT IIIs and this waiver is that one is autoland and one will be the capt landed through FLIR. I could be wrong on that though.

FDXLAG
02-04-2010, 06:19 PM
I too have lots of HUD time w/FLIR on the AF side and I swear by them. I'm currently in the MD right seat, so now I'll just be swearing w/o one. A fundamental difference between the current procedures for CAT IIIs and this waiver is that one is autoland and one will be the capt landed through FLIR. I could be wrong on that though.

I wouldn't know since I still use steam gauges but nothing in this waiver will require the airfields to protect Cat 1 ILS's like Cat III's are so I hope autoland isn't required.

FR8Hauler
02-04-2010, 06:33 PM
I wouldn't know since I still use steam gauges but nothing in this waiver will require the airfields to protect Cat 1 ILS's like Cat III's are so I hope autoland isn't required.

Obviously you don't fly the MD-11 because it can land better than you every time.:)

FedupFlex
02-04-2010, 06:33 PM
FedEx is at least 2 years away from this taking effect; still need to get everyone trained, and the Fed's are fortunately taking a conservative approach in us getting experience with the HUD. And, I'm not sure if the exmption will apply to inernational operations:confused:

MD11Fr8Dog
02-04-2010, 07:45 PM
I too have lots of HUD time w/FLIR on the AF side and I swear by them. I'm currently in the MD right seat, so now I'll just be swearing w/o one. A fundamental difference between the current procedures for CAT IIIs and this waiver is that one is autoland and one will be the capt landed through FLIR. I could be wrong on that though.

Kinda wrong.

This will not effect CAT II/IIIs, but will, when we go operational, allow us on CAT Is to see the runway at 200ft based solely on the HUD/EFVS image, and then continue to 100ft. At 100ft, the "real" runway needs to be visible to continue to landing. At least, that is what I took from the training! But right now, there are NO changes to any approaches, just the ability to use another tool to enhance SA/safety in low vis ops during taxi, take off and landing!

I got checked out in Dec and have had the opportunity since then to use the HUD/EFVS on 3 approaches (2 as PM) and 2 take offs (1 as PM) - all in VMC. Plenty of extra info on trends and AOA that is NOT displayed on the normal MD displays. Takes a little getting used to the scan pattern adjustments, but a little "practice" in VMC conditions goes a long way!

Originally I thought this system was going to be a waste of $$, another feel good item for someone to get a bonus (paid for with 4a2b :mad:), wondering where the benefit is since we can already do CAT II/IIIs. Then I trained in it. I'm a believer, it'll really help on CAT Is and Visuals picking out the runway, crosswind landings and in the flare.

Right now only 14 MD-11s and 1 MD-10 are equipped, and maybe 35% of the Capts are trained (started with recurrent in Oct). So, my guess is it'll be at least another year before we go operational on the lower mins for CAT Is using the HUD/EFVS.

Anything wrong or incomplete in my description is simply due to my simpleton mind! ;)

DoubleD
02-04-2010, 08:08 PM
FedEx is at least 2 years away from this taking effect; still need to get everyone trained, and the Fed's are fortunately taking a conservative approach in us getting experience with the HUD. And, I'm not sure if the exmption will apply to inernational operations:confused:



"Cargo airline FedEx has received an exemption from the US FAA (http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#documentDetail?R=0900006480a785e6)that allows the carrier to use a combination of vision enhancing equipment, procedures and training to expand foul-weather access to US airports. "

Whaledriver101
02-04-2010, 08:24 PM
Very surprised at this exemption with Fedex's absolutely atrocious accident history. Pay enough money,, I guess you can get anything you want.

Laughing_Jakal
02-05-2010, 11:30 AM
Not to worry...FedEx will now have to hire 4700 new pilots. As our former chief pilot recently opined: we have no special skill sets.

Time for a $2000.00 override for every landing below mins.

MaydayMark
02-05-2010, 11:57 AM
FedEx will now have to hire 4700 new pilots. As our former chief pilot recently opined: we have no special skill sets.




And NEVER FORGET FWS's famous written threat ... "We will go on, with or without you!"