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View Full Version : UPS Problem; Too much cash...


VegasBoy
02-05-2010, 10:01 AM
ATLANTA (TheStreet) --UPS (UPS Quote) moved Thursday to address its "problem" -- too much cash -- by raising its dividend.

The company said it would increase the quarterly dividend to 47 cents from 45 cents, payable March 3 to shareholders of record on Feb. 16.
The company on Tuesday guided toward earnings of $2.70 to $3.05 a share in the current year. Analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters had been estimating $2.81. On an earnings conference call, CFO Kurt Kuehn said the guidance was "aggressive," but justified by increasing revenue and declines in projecting spending.

"We are going to be back soon hopefully to that problem of what to do with excess cash generation," Kuehn said. "We have no intentions of building a large hoard of cash."

The dividend increase was not exactly a surprise. UPS company has either increased or maintained its dividend every year for four decades.



This combined with the post 4Q conference call makes me feel like a sucker for giving up so much to RDG in the MOU's but very confident in having a job in 6 months. As both a bottom 300 and stockholder this gives me a very nice warm fuzzy feeling.


FR8Hauler
02-05-2010, 10:14 AM
ATLANTA (TheStreet) --UPS (UPS Quote) moved Thursday to address its "problem" -- too much cash -- by raising its dividend.

The company said it would increase the quarterly dividend to 47 cents from 45 cents, payable March 3 to shareholders of record on Feb. 16.
The company on Tuesday guided toward earnings of $2.70 to $3.05 a share in the current year. Analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters had been estimating $2.81. On an earnings conference call, CFO Kurt Kuehn said the guidance was "aggressive," but justified by increasing revenue and declines in projecting spending.

"We are going to be back soon hopefully to that problem of what to do with excess cash generation," Kuehn said. "We have no intentions of building a large hoard of cash."

The dividend increase was not exactly a surprise. UPS company has either increased or maintained its dividend every year for four decades.



This combined with the post 4Q conference call makes me feel like a sucker for giving up so much to RDG in the MOU's but very confident in having a job in 6 months. As both a bottom 300 and stockholder this gives me a very nice warm fuzzy feeling.

I am sure all of the people they just fired are happy to see this.

Section Eight
02-05-2010, 01:53 PM
This combined with the post 4Q conference call makes me feel like a sucker for giving up so much to RDG in the MOU's but very confident in having a job in 6 months. As both a bottom 300 and stockholder this gives me a very nice warm fuzzy feeling.

I hope your right. Some rumors of a secret squirrel meeting on Monday with managers before/during/after (pick one) IPA negotiations. Hope it's not an announcement that we will be racing to wal-mart for the last greeter job.

Been a lot of rants about not being overstaffed, etc on the B&G due to JA's in ANC, etc. They obviously granted too much leave, RDG, etc in this domicile, etc. And I think the occasional JA for them beats having more of us around right now. But we still have 100+ sitting at home not doing a thing. I hope I am wrong about whats coming on Monday. Just one more guys opinion.

Good luck EB.


L'il J.Seinfeld
02-05-2010, 02:47 PM
Many at home will not undergo training. My guess is it is probably 15-20. We have the most senior DC-8 guys at home. Many of them have never flown without an FE or used FMS automation. That background matched with having not flown in a year will cause some to fail training and opt to retire. We are still overmanned but every body that retires saves a job at the bottom.

1800 RVR
02-05-2010, 02:55 PM
Many at home will not undergo training. My guess is it is probably 15-20. We have the most senior DC-8 guys at home. Many of them have never flown without an FE or used FMS automation. That background matched with having not flown in a year will cause some to fail training and opt to retire. We are still overmanned but every body that retires saves a job at the bottom.

I disagree. I don't see this at all. Most, if not all, will get through training. We are professionals, aren't we? Guys will be able to figure out the magenta line.

757upspilot
02-05-2010, 03:13 PM
I disagree. I don't see this at all. Most, if not all, will get through training. We are professionals, aren't we? Guys will be able to figure out the magenta line.
have to agree

VegasBoy
02-05-2010, 03:18 PM
No question we have people sitting at home getting paid. So one way or another we are overstaffed. However I can't see the company:

-increasing dividends (by over 20 mill.)
-CEO stating in earnings call the recession is over
-reinstating management bonuses
-unfreezing management compensation and
-restoring profit forecasts

and then furloughing pilots. Those things just don't make sense in combination.

Roberto
02-05-2010, 03:35 PM
...That background matched with having not flown in a year will cause some to fail training and opt to retire...
By my count, of those remaining (123 total all 3 seats) on the Reference SenList, two will be over 65 soon, but only 4 others are over 60.

Tigerpilot1995
02-05-2010, 06:31 PM
It is right in UPS's degenerate wheelhouse to furlough in spite of the good business news and us giving them almost every penny they needed to save.

CactusCrew
02-05-2010, 06:43 PM
I agree ...

Tigerpilot1995
02-05-2010, 07:22 PM
But, I am sure some manager will come on here any minute and spew some puppet like b-s about how the economy is down, we have parked airplanes.....blah blah blah blah blah. UPS sure does know how to unify a union.

Xtwinbeechguy
02-05-2010, 10:05 PM
I agree, even the sharpest pilot who has never flown glass, is getting older, and unmotivated will have trouble getting through training. It is just a matter of how much extra training is agreed upon by the IPA and management.

Many at home will not undergo training. My guess is it is probably 15-20. We have the most senior DC-8 guys at home. Many of them have never flown without an FE or used FMS automation. That background matched with having not flown in a year will cause some to fail training and opt to retire. We are still overmanned but every body that retires saves a job at the bottom.

CactusCrew
02-05-2010, 10:25 PM
I agree, even the sharpest pilot who has never flown glass, is getting older, and unmotivated will have trouble getting through training. It is just a matter of how much extra training is agreed upon by the IPA and management.

They get whatever they need to pass, and then some. Just like the rest of us ... There is a double standard. But don't count on it to weed out the old and weak.

Apparently you haven't done a bid period of training from the FO/IRO seat in ANC to see how well the system works.

Gotta keep those wheels movin' ...

UPSFO4LIFE
02-06-2010, 05:42 AM
All of our jobs are safe due to a deal worked out betrween the IPA, UPS and one certain pilot here dealing with training issues. Don't worry the old timers will pass, and get whatever training they need to get by.

Freightpuppy
02-06-2010, 05:51 AM
So do you all think that we haven't ever had an accident is a result of just dumb luck? :D

8-capt
02-06-2010, 06:08 AM
Many at home will not undergo training. My guess is it is probably 15-20. We have the most senior DC-8 guys at home. Many of them have never flown without an FE or used FMS automation. That background matched with having not flown in a year will cause some to fail training and opt to retire. We are still overmanned but every body that retires saves a job at the bottom.
OMG, and to think I might have to fly an airplane with only 2 engines:eek:

Jetjok
02-06-2010, 08:45 AM
So you think that your "old guys" won't be able to hack the program. Seems to me that you have too high of an opinion of yourselves, while assuming that pilots with 30 or more years of flying airplanes, won't be able to do what you were able to accomplish. Don't forget, these guys were flying when men were made of steel and airplanes were made of wood. Granted a glass cockpit can be a little intimidating, but once it's understood, it's a piece of cake. You all know that, but are just looking to play head games with the older set. Forget it....they are too smart for you. And too senior.

JJ

SaltyDog
02-06-2010, 09:49 AM
So you think that your "old guys" won't be able to hack the program. Seems to me that you have too high of an opinion of yourselves, while assuming that pilots with 30 or more years of flying airplanes, won't be able to do what you were able to accomplish. Don't forget, these guys were flying when men were made of steel and airplanes were made of wood. Granted a glass cockpit can be a little intimidating, but once it's understood, it's a piece of cake. You all know that, but are just looking to play head games with the older set. Forget it....they are too smart for you. And too senior.

JJ

JJ,
You are seeing a little blow over from several internal issues that are being discussed at the IPA. i.e. we have a union IP instructor state that 8 folks were having trouble on the glass, you know, being steam so long and all (that applied to all 8 drivers, not just the +60 crowd) that said union instructor started a voluntary class for these folks on days off. (It is subject to a lively debate internally). Also, we did have some older folks show up after being on the panel for awhile with a 'feed me' and I will just sit here mentality. Only takes a few in each glass fleet to stain the entire fold. Yes, that happened then it grows to epic urban legend.
BTW, as a junior 8 driver, I noticed an interesting psychological battle 8 crews waged against fellow crews on other fleets considering bidding the 8 "Oh man, on crosswind landings you can drag a pylon, it's scary" We had a few so we leveraged it to scare others off <bg>. Same with the lack of glass and automation. "Man, no autothrottles, it's a bear", and "Yeah, you have to calculate your own TOD, it's really hard". And finally, "Yep, No APU, freeze in the cold, burn up in the heat" All somewhat effective back in the day <LOL>

UPSFO4LIFE
02-06-2010, 12:01 PM
So you think that your "old guys" won't be able to hack the program. Seems to me that you have too high of an opinion of yourselves, while assuming that pilots with 30 or more years of flying airplanes, won't be able to do what you were able to accomplish. Don't forget, these guys were flying when men were made of steel and airplanes were made of wood. Granted a glass cockpit can be a little intimidating, but once it's understood, it's a piece of cake. You all know that, but are just looking to play head games with the older set. Forget it....they are too smart for you. And too senior.

JJ

Actually, I have flown with several 8 guys, young and old who have and continue to have a hard time with the 75. I don't care how long they have been flying, they have trouble adapting to the more modern aircraft. It is what it is! Like I said, young and old, if you have never been on a glass airplane, chances are you are going to have a tough time.

Jetjok
02-06-2010, 12:41 PM
No question that glass is much harder to initially learn, but it's not rocket science and if I could get through it at almost 57, then anyone could. It's all about attitude, working hard, learning the systems, and spending as much extra time chair flying the profiles and routes as you can. That's not to say everyone can hack it, but certainly most should be able to get through the program.

JJ

Sideshow Bob
02-06-2010, 03:08 PM
No question that glass is much harder to initially learn, but it's not rocket science and if I could get through it at almost 57, then anyone could. It's all about attitude, working hard, learning the systems, and spending as much extra time chair flying the profiles and routes as you can. That's not to say everyone can hack it, but certainly most should be able to get through the program.

JJ

That in part is part of Salty's point...attitude. There's a BIT of entitlement on both ends of the list over here. When I was an IOE instructor on the whale panel I had numerous retreads who had pathetic attitudes and work ethic on the panel. A couple would shrug their shoulders and say "...hey it's your ticket until my line check, not my problem if we're late or you get violated..."

UPSFO4LIFE
02-06-2010, 03:34 PM
It's all about attitude, working hard, learning the systems


You got that right!

Freightpuppy
02-06-2010, 04:12 PM
That in part is part of Salty's point...attitude. There's a BIT of entitlement on both ends of the list over here. When I was an IOE instructor on the whale panel I had numerous retreads who had pathetic attitudes and work ethic on the panel. A couple would shrug their shoulders and say "...hey it's your ticket until my line check, not my problem if we're late or you get violated..."

Nice......

Swedish Blender
02-06-2010, 04:24 PM
Some from the 8 get through training without much fanfare. I have been told others spend an extra 2-3 hours a day with their IPA instructors.

I do not know however if that is due to lack of understanding, motivation, etc.

HeavyJet
02-06-2010, 04:34 PM
JJ,
You are seeing a little blow over from several internal issues that are being discussed at the IPA. i.e. we have a union IP instructor state that 8 folks were having trouble on the glass, you know, being steam so long and all (that applied to all 8 drivers, not just the +60 crowd) that said union instructor started a voluntary class for these folks on days off. (It is subject to a lively debate internally). Also, we did have some older folks show up after being on the panel for awhile with a 'feed me' and I will just sit here mentality. Only takes a few in each glass fleet to stain the entire fold. Yes, that happened then it grows to epic urban legend.
BTW, as a junior 8 driver, I noticed an interesting psychological battle 8 crews waged against fellow crews on other fleets considering bidding the 8 "Oh man, on crosswind landings you can drag a pylon, it's scary" We had a few so we leveraged it to scare others off <bg>. Same with the lack of glass and automation. "Man, no autothrottles, it's a bear", and "Yeah, you have to calculate your own TOD, it's really hard". And finally, "Yep, No APU, freeze in the cold, burn up in the heat" All somewhat effective back in the day <LOL>


Ah man my secret is out. I used to do that exact thing all the time. You could get a guy to change his bid after 10 minutes of DC-8 stories. I always forgot to tell them that the pylon drags were because idiots were 20kts fast and not on a stable path vertically. The 8 was fun, but I am glad it is over.

pony172
02-06-2010, 06:05 PM
I've flown with a lot of the guys on the Bus coming over form the 8. They fly the Bus pretty well because they are used to disregarding the "glass cockpit". Relying on the french designed glass cockpit can easily lead to a violation, embarrassment or death. They always ask, " Is it supposed to be doing that?" Of course, no one really knows what Fifi is doing because the wonderful UPS manuals don't tell what logic is used. UPS even made those cheese eating surrender monkeys take out some the more dangerous logic that has caused some fatal mishaps. Now if I can just keep the captain from looking over their right shoulder at where the engineer should be, I'd have it made.