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Jonathan E
02-11-2010, 11:33 PM
Looks like the feds are gonna fine UPS big over harrassment of our line mechanics. The managers were writing warning letters to mechs that found discrepancies on ASEs/ASNs. FAA went straight into an enforcement action.

Maybe Lekites shoulda kept the $130 mil, looks like he's gonna need it.


JustUnderPar
02-11-2010, 11:37 PM
Where did you hear about this.

I dont doubt it one bit the way this place is ran.

Jonathan E
02-12-2010, 09:23 AM
From 2 of our mechanics at SDF. One had been interviewed by feds. It seems that some problems found by them were being cleared by managers and popped up later to bite UPS in the ass operationally. They expect the fines to be very substantial and to lead to the firing of certain MX managers.

I don't know how reliable all this is, but these 2 guys were tickled by it.


JethroFDX
02-12-2010, 09:46 AM
They expect the fines to be very substantial and to lead to the firing of certain MX managers.

I'll make the presumption that if that's the case they're only being the fall guys.

JustUnderPar
02-12-2010, 10:36 AM
From 2 of our mechanics at SDF. One had been interviewed by feds. It seems that some problems found by them were being cleared by managers and popped up later to bite UPS in the ass operationally. They expect the fines to be very substantial and to lead to the firing of certain MX managers.

I don't know how reliable all this is, but these 2 guys were tickled by it.

This would not surprise me in the least......

Just ask all the Captains that got LOI's due to MX not being done properly. I am sure management was in there somewhere to get this one dispatched:eek:

Remember to fly SAFE out there.

GOCKY
02-12-2010, 04:39 PM
This would not surprise me in the least......

Just ask all the Captains that got LOI's due to MX not being done properly. I am sure management was in there somewhere to get this one dispatched:eek:

Remember to fly SAFE out there.

You must be talking about the incident that generated the latest safety bulletin. "Recently, an MD-11 flew 21 legs without a required MEL deferral."

I heard all pilots and dispatchers involved were "advised" by the company to fill out ASAP reports. It seems like UPS management will always blame everyone but themselves.

CactusCrew
02-12-2010, 05:10 PM
Working at UPS brings a whole new meaning to the term ... self-disclosure.

Shaggy1970
02-12-2010, 09:57 PM
You must be talking about the incident that generated the latest safety bulletin. "Recently, an MD-11 flew 21 legs without a required MEL deferral."

I heard all pilots and dispatchers involved were "advised" by the company to fill out ASAP reports. It seems like UPS management will always blame everyone but themselves.

You didn't know you had to have a ANP to come to work at UPS? The next must read bulletin will state: pilots have to come in three hours early, so that they can wrench on the jet and clear previous write-ups. I am sure some manager is going to get promoted for this very idea and will show how much money they can save the company! You think I am kidding ....???

Since when do we as flight crew have to verify a DMP has been accomplished? Maintenance manuals are not carried on the jets and other than the logbook how else are we supposed to verify the work was properly? The FAA and UPS are both out to lunch here!

Ernst
02-13-2010, 07:10 AM
You didn't know you had to have a ANP to come to work at UPS? The next must read bulletin will state: pilots have to come in three hours early, so that they can wrench on the jet and clear previous write-ups. I am sure some manager is going to get promoted for this very idea and will show how much money they can save the company! You think I am kidding ....???

Since when do we as flight crew have to verify a DMP has been accomplished? Maintenance manuals are not carried on the jets and other than the logbook how else are we supposed to verify the work was properly? The FAA and UPS are both out to lunch here!

Actually, the back of the MEL book on my fleet type has a DMP section. Whenever the MEL refers to a DMP procedure, I thumb to the back of the book and review the DMP for items that I can verify, like CBs pulled and collared. I found one recently that did not have the affected CB pulled or collared. Line maintenance was called to resolve the oversight. I don't know if they forgot about the DMP entirely, or just forgot to pull that CB. I frequently, or more frequently than one would hope, find old MEL deferral stickers or the absence of required stickers for active deferred items. I do whatever I can to wear a belt and suspenders to cover my own crew's assets and to watch the backs of our maintenance brothers and sisters. Each of us is merely human. If I can head something off at the pass before it becomes an ASAP item or threat to anyone's job security, it's worth the time. With the seeming increase in MELs recently, I open the .pdf version of the MEL book on the computer in the fleet library on CMS. I can then print the applicable pages for the active MEL iems and associated DMPs so we don't have to roam the flight planning room looking for the MEL book or juggle the MEL book on the aircraft. It is sad that the fun factor in flying has left the building for good around here. Good luck out there!

AFW_MD11
02-13-2010, 10:38 AM
.....If I can head something off at the pass before it becomes an ASAP item or threat to anyone's job security, it's worth the time......

.....I heard all pilots and dispatchers involved were "advised" by the company to fill out ASAP reports....

You guys have an ASAP program in place at UPS? :)

Fireball
02-13-2010, 12:10 PM
There was an MD capt. who had to do a carpet dance in SDF for forgetting to set T/O flaps. The reason the T/O checklist did not get run was because they had several anomolies (queertrons) and they were checking MEL and AOM. Some were transients faults. In the end they decided to take the jet because everything was cleared. FAA asked him why he didn't write up these anomolies in the forms. He replied that they were only momentary and then cleared themselves. FAA was not happy. In other words, even if it's momentary or transient in nature, write it up and BTB if you need to. Make sure to ask questions!

JustUnderPar
02-13-2010, 01:50 PM
There was an MD capt. who had to do a carpet dance in SDF for forgetting to set T/O flaps. The reason the T/O checklist did not get run was because they had several anomolies (queertrons) and they were checking MEL and AOM. Some were transients faults. In the end they decided to take the jet because everything was cleared. FAA asked him why he didn't write up these anomolies in the forms. He replied that they were only momentary and then cleared themselves. FAA was not happy. In other words, even if it's momentary or transient in nature, write it up and BTB if you need to. Make sure to ask questions!

Exactly! When in doubt about anything DOCUMENT. Be SAFE out there.

roadkils
02-13-2010, 08:12 PM
You must be talking about the incident that generated the latest safety bulletin. "Recently, an MD-11 flew 21 legs without a required MEL deferral."

I heard all pilots and dispatchers involved were "advised" by the company to fill out ASAP reports. It seems like UPS management will always blame everyone but themselves.

Yes, we were advised by "Management" to fill out ASAP reports and were otherwise told that we the Dispatchers and the Pilots screwed up!

JustUnderPar
02-13-2010, 08:15 PM
Yes, we were advised by "Management" to fill out ASAP reports and were otherwise told that we the Dispatchers and the Pilots screwed up!

You know what they say about _____ rolling down hill:D

"Love my job. Hate who I work for"

roadkils
02-13-2010, 08:18 PM
You know what they say about _____ rolling down hill:D

"Love my job. Hate who I work for"

Oh yeah, we are very familiar with _____ rolling down hill!!! :)

JustUnderPar
02-13-2010, 08:27 PM
Oh yeah, we are very familiar with _____ rolling down hill!!! :)

You guys keep doing the great work you do!! Always appreciated we had great dispatchers when the ________ hit the fan!:cool:

Freightpuppy
02-14-2010, 06:26 AM
You must be talking about the incident that generated the latest safety bulletin. "Recently, an MD-11 flew 21 legs without a required MEL deferral."

I heard all pilots and dispatchers involved were "advised" by the company to fill out ASAP reports. It seems like UPS management will always blame everyone but themselves.

Let's see here.....21 legs without an MEL deferral.....not maintenance or flight crews fault at all.....:rolleyes:

Freightpuppy
02-14-2010, 06:31 AM
Since when do we as flight crew have to verify a DMP has been accomplished? Maintenance manuals are not carried on the jets and other than the logbook how else are we supposed to verify the work was properly? The FAA and UPS are both out to lunch here!

Dude, where have you been? Every airline I've ever worked at, we were required to check the MEL, CDL and DMP for proper procedures. The 75 has the MEL, CDL and DMP on board, maybe the MD11 doesn't?

Freightpuppy
02-14-2010, 06:33 AM
There was an MD capt. who had to do a carpet dance in SDF for forgetting to set T/O flaps. The reason the T/O checklist did not get run was because they had several anomolies (queertrons) and they were checking MEL and AOM. Some were transients faults. In the end they decided to take the jet because everything was cleared. FAA asked him why he didn't write up these anomolies in the forms. He replied that they were only momentary and then cleared themselves. FAA was not happy. In other words, even if it's momentary or transient in nature, write it up and BTB if you need to. Make sure to ask questions!

I just got out of the school house and this was beat into my head constantly. The instructor said they are trying to get some relief but for now, ANYTHING, transient or not, is to be written up, follow the MEL matrix, yada yada.