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View Full Version : FDX March 2010 Sec Line Values


FDXLAG
02-17-2010, 07:20 AM
Must lead turn the eventual 10 posts asking for data.

MEM MD11
CA 71:00
FO 71:00

ANC MD11
CA 68:00
FO 74:00

LAX MD11
CA 68:00
FO 71:30

MEM A300
CA 68:00
FO 73:00

HKG A300
CA 76:54
FO 76:54

MEM B757
CA 76:32
FO 76:32

MEM B727
CA 70:00
FO 67:18
SO 64:00

Us 727 Reg line holders are chumps.


AFW_MD11
02-17-2010, 07:31 AM
CBA 25.D.2. Secondary Line Construction

25.D.2.f.......will be constructed within the applicable line spread.....

the spread is 13 CH between the highest and lowest BLG regular line

so......does this mean that in ANC in March, FO secondary lines (max of 74:00) will be built between 74:00 and 61:00 (13 CH spread)? and a 61:00 secondary line would meet the CBA construction criteria?

or.....??

FDXLAG
02-17-2010, 07:39 AM
What it means to me is the low reg line is 61 and therfore they can only build a secondary line up to 74.

They wish they could go higher, allowing them to hide more trips from the bid pack.


AFW_MD11
02-17-2010, 07:59 AM
That's why I asked.

Looking at the ANC bidpack for March - FO's

High Line = 71:04

Low Line = 63:07

So, I was trying to figure out exactly how they come up with 74:00 max and how the 13CH spread fits into that.

71+/- down to 63+/- would all be within the 74:00 - 61:00 spread - maybe 74:00 was the target max for building regular lines also?

anyway....just curious....I'm still trying to figure out exactly how they're manipulating everything too.

AFW_MD11
02-17-2010, 08:15 AM
interesting also....

looking at MEM MD11 FO

High Line = 73:04

Low Line = 65:00

but the Secondary line max is only 71:00

this doesn't make sense if the Secondary lines are to be built within the same 13CH spread as the regular lines? does it?

seems the Secondary line max should be at least 73:04?? (the high reg line)

golfandfly
02-17-2010, 08:20 AM
AFW,

This is another good opportunity to spread out the flying. With a 71 hour max, they can build 58 hour secondary lines. For some reason, we agreed on a high spread, I believe it was lower in the past contract. Why not have a bunch of secondary lines filled at 58? This beats the 4.a.2.b. lines. I think my line last month was 59 hours or so.

AFW_MD11
02-17-2010, 08:38 AM
golf,

yeah....it used to be 11CH spread (until Jan 2008) - new CBA changed it to 13CH.

my question is more one of "where does the secondary line MAX number come from?"

I thought it was supposed to be based on the regular line max, but I guess the company can just pull a secondary max # out of you-know-where and then build the secondary lines down 13CH from there?

in other words....the 13CH spread is contractual - but where is it written what these MAX secondary numbers they come out with every month have to be?

is this another 4A2b - we (management) decide what the max will be? and ALPA can't do anything about it?

all we (management) have to do is comply with the 13CH spread? and not go below the 4A2b 48/60CH?

that must be the answer.

Lindy
02-17-2010, 09:14 AM
Past 4.a.2.b. practice has not had a VTO line lower than the lowest Line in the bid pack.

I think this question will answer most being asked. Look at MD-11 MEM for the last few months....lowest Secondary Line was not lower than a normal line, effectually making the spread moot.

I could be wrong....

MD11Fr8Dog
02-17-2010, 09:31 AM
So, I was trying to figure out exactly how they come up with 74:00 max and how the 13CH spread fits into that.


So they can build to 61?

Lindy
02-17-2010, 09:47 AM
The contract reads (paraphrasing) "Secondary Lines to be constructed within the 13 BLG Spread of Normal Lines"

Look at the bid pack -- lines from 65 to 73 THEREFORE VTO Lines will all be built within that spread (not higher, not lower). The company is targeting 71 hours.

golfandfly
02-17-2010, 10:05 AM
Lindy,

That isn't correct. They build lines lower than the low line credit. They won't all be between 65-73 (as you used in your example.

Busboy
02-17-2010, 10:24 AM
Somebody said on some thread here, that they buy-up VTO lines that are built below the bidpack low-line value.

Anyone have experience with that?

trashhauler
02-17-2010, 10:37 AM
The last 2 months, the bottom 30 MD-11 Capt vto lines were all reserve. Thus getting reserve guarantee.

AFW_MD11
02-18-2010, 06:06 AM
Somebody said on some thread here, that they buy-up VTO lines that are built below the bidpack low-line value.

Anyone have experience with that?

I don't know, but I highly doubt it.

If you read the CBA section on Secondary Line Construction (25.D.2.) it says they can build VTOs with all trips, trips + R-days, or all R-days.

So, if they were short of the min BLG, they could just throw an R-day or two on there to make up the difference. No buying up the VTO lines due to not enough trips to put on them.

Just my guess.....no actual experience on this - other than they've never bought up my Secondary line.

The Walrus
02-18-2010, 06:20 AM
I don't know, but I highly doubt it.

If you read the CBA section on Secondary Line Construction (25.D.2.) it says they can build VTOs with all trips, trips + R-days, or all R-days.

So, if they were short of the min BLG, they could just throw an R-day or two on there to make up the difference. No buying up the VTO lines due to not enough trips to put on them.

Just my guess.....no actual experience on this - other than they've never bought up my Secondary line.
I had several months where my vto was bought up by 1 or 2 hrs. I guess they would rather buy up to 13 below max, then to add r days and pay over the min.

AFW_MD11
02-18-2010, 07:56 AM
I had several months where my vto was bought up by 1 or 2 hrs. I guess they would rather buy up to 13 below max, then to add r days and pay over the min.

Interesting.

did they buy it up to equal the lowest regular line BLG in your bidpack?

or to the published Secondary line max MINUS 13 CH?

evidently, there's a difference.

The Walrus
02-18-2010, 09:40 AM
They bought it up to 13 hrs less than the max line in my seat. Only happened twice, once for 1+16 and once for 2+07.



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