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View Full Version : Evergreen


Lazyb757
02-19-2010, 07:11 PM
What do extended days, 17th & 18th, pay?


pilotgolfer
02-20-2010, 08:26 AM
4 hours or what you fly, whichever is greater.

jrutt
02-21-2010, 11:04 AM
thats 180 bucks a day OT for me, after taxes of course! to good for to long!
viva la Verde


Lazyb757
02-21-2010, 12:00 PM
Thanks guys

CALTanker
02-21-2010, 06:19 PM
4 hours or what you fly, whichever is greater.


How's the QOL? Do they keep you out longer than the 2 weeks very often? Time to upgrade? Is it 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off as a norm? In general, I think you're new with the company, is it what you thought it was like? Any surprises? Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

pilotgolfer
02-22-2010, 03:08 AM
How's the QOL? Do they keep you out longer than the 2 weeks very often? Time to upgrade? Is it 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off as a norm? In general, I think you're new with the company, is it what you thought it was like? Any surprises? Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Actually, I haven't started yet. I just happened to be reading through the contract to see what I was getting myself into! Ask me again in 6 months and maybe I'll have a better feel for it.

jrutt
02-22-2010, 09:46 AM
if qual of life is real important to u then an international ACMI is probably not for U. if u like adventure in far away places maybe worth a go.

Evergreen has been a stop gap job for hundreds. i personally like the flying and the crews are all pretty good guys.

time to upgrade is tough to tell.quickest i remember is 14-15 months but he has been down graded for a few years now. we are not growing. basically stay at 10 to 14 a/c for the last 15years. i can only guess we will get some 400's park some classics. the wars in iraq and afgan will determine our shrinkage. the owner is old and has no kids to take over. ? ??? ther are alot of IF's. if like adventure with low pay evergreen is the place for you.

Don't come here with delusions that it is anything more, that way u wont be disapointed. ive never missed a paycheck and i have personelly never been furloughed(lucky) and the airline has never been in bankruptcy. Also on the plus side we are getting 400's and we have the dreamlifter w/Boeing.

CALTanker
02-23-2010, 06:49 PM
if qual of life is real important to u then an international ACMI is probably not for U. if u like adventure in far away places maybe worth a go.

Evergreen has been a stop gap job for hundreds. i personally like the flying and the crews are all pretty good guys.

time to upgrade is tough to tell.quickest i remember is 14-15 months but he has been down graded for a few years now. we are not growing. basically stay at 10 to 14 a/c for the last 15years. i can only guess we will get some 400's park some classics. the wars in iraq and afgan will determine our shrinkage. the owner is old and has no kids to take over. ? ??? ther are alot of IF's. if like adventure with low pay evergreen is the place for you.

Don't come here with delusions that it is anything more, that way u wont be disapointed. ive never missed a paycheck and i have personelly never been furloughed(lucky) and the airline has never been in bankruptcy. Also on the plus side we are getting 400's and we have the dreamlifter w/Boeing.

Thanks! What is YOUR typical (I realize there may be nothing typical), but a typical schedule like? I've heard anything from 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off with occasionally as long as 18 out. How often are you out longer than 2 weeks? Do you stay in crash pads for reserve or do you have many reserves? I've got a buddy furloughed from World, but is too lazy (or something), to get on here. Another buddy is at Atlas and seems their schedule is all over the place. Thanks for your input.

JumpSeater
02-24-2010, 05:43 AM
Is Evergreen actually hiring? Aside from some position in Afghanistan and a Chistmans Tree Rep. (which I am qualified :D), I must be missing it on their website.

Herman
02-24-2010, 07:18 AM
jumpseater...that is the best avatar on apc! do you remember the line..."we have noticed you've been missing alot of work lately"? cheers...

jrutt
02-25-2010, 07:15 AM
Contractually there are 16 day lines offered to bid on. You owe the company 16 days to get you guaranteed pay of [email protected] your yearly pay rate. these lines are all either hard lines with issued flying or they are reserve lines. You bid on them by seniority. seniority is determined by your date of hire and date of birth in your class(oldest senior to younger)
The company gets the hotel for us when on layovers and rsrv. nothing fancy but ok hotels, just what a freight dog would like:D. contractually ez can extend u two days making that 18 days away. if u are extended u get a ticket to or from your home(where you live)

Work days very greatly, this is adhoc flying sort of like being on call. some months u may fly ur arse of some months u may sit in a hotel with lots of time to kill. it just depends on how much flying we have and how the company is utalizing the crews. if u want to make more money u can volunteer for extra time flying that is staying out longer than 16days. skies the limit if ya want to live on the road and the ez has flying to be done they will keep ya out as long as ya like.
we have one of the better schedules in our contract out of the acmi's but one of if not the worst pay. Also we have business class travel per contract, that is a big bonus, because we do lots of airline travel to and from trips. if u have ever traveled in the cattle car section of an airliner for 15hrs you know what i mean. So 2 out of 3 ain't bad.....

I personally love the work and schedule. but its not for everyone and within a few months of new hire classes thers lots of *****ing about the job and then usually lots of turn over. fun for some but not for everyone. if u cant hold a good line u may be gone for 36 days maybe in a tent in Afghanistan. very rare but if you dont think that sounds like fun probly not for u.

EZRider
02-25-2010, 07:39 AM
What is YOUR typical (I realize there may be nothing typical), but a typical schedule like? I've heard anything from 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off with occasionally as long as 18 out. How often are you out longer than 2 weeks?

Speaking for the Classic fleet only (what you'll be hired into if you get on here now):

Schedule is 16 on, 14 off. You can bid the 16 on as the 1st 16 days of the bid, the last 16 days of the bid, or the first and last 8 days of the bid. The company has the right to extend you involuntarily 2 additional days, and often does. So, typical schedule for me is 16-18 on, then 12-14 off. Repeat. You will never have to work more than 18 days (unless you bid it or volunteer to do it), and, if extended, the company must transport you home to your home airport (you designate this airport). So, even if you're extended, generally you only work 1 additional day, b/c the last day is spent traveling to your home airport.

You are out longer than 2 weeks (14 days) 100% of the time, essentially, if you're based in JFK, the junior base, and where 90% of the pilots are based. You either bid 16 days on (extendable to 18) or you bid the first and last 8 days of each bid, and then you end up out 16-18 days anyway (the last 8, and then the first 8 of the next bid). If you can't handle 18 days straight, you can't work here - it's that simple.

Typical 16 days of scheduling right now is 1-2 days of reserve, a flight out of the northeast to Germany (either JFK or a limo to WRI or DOV, then cross the Atlantic), a 1-2 sit in Germany, a flight down to Kuwait through Turkey, a 2 day sit in Kuwait, a flight back to Germany, 1-2 days in Germany, a heavy crew from Germany to Afghanistan to China, a 2 day sit in China, a flight from China to Anchorage via Japan, then a commercial home. 18 days, 45 hours of flying, 72 hours of pay (min of 65 hours, then 4 hours per day for each day extended). Though I called this 'typical', this is just an example that gives you an idea of what a junior guy might see based in JFK.

Do you stay in crash pads for reserve or do you have many reserves?

Lots of reserve (most lines are reserve lines), but no crash pad. We have a company paid hotel room (think Red Roof Inn quality, not Ritz Carlton) in JFK if you're on reserve. Essentially, the company owns you for the 16 days (even the line holders get their lines changed up all the time, so, in my mind, it is just like reserve anyway, but some guys swear that being a line holder is a better deal). Hotels when in the continental US are generally Courtyard Marriot or the like when not in JFK. When outside the CONUS, we stay in Hilton, Sheraton, Marriot, or Hyatt type places (we're in the same hotel as Fed Ex, UPS, or passenger carriers in various locals, and in the same places as other freight outfits like Atlas, World, or what have you when flying into military fields not near civilian facilities, such as Hann AB, which we seem to frequent a good amount lately).

Other random stuff - travel is business class or better when leaving the CONUS or any trip of over 6 hours (including layover time). Food on board our aircraft is usually adequate in quantity, but often lacking in quality. With the 3 man flightdeck, you have 12 hours of allowable flight time per duty period - and you will be asked to fly up to 12 hours at times. 1-2 legs per day when flying. Open time is currently plentiful - if you don't value your off time or desire to never see your family or home, Evergreen will be more than happy to accommodate you. Departure times are often just guesses - expect the unexpected. Crews are good, though we have our 5%, and we have a couple scabs. If you have a true family or other emergency, Evergreen will bend over backwards to get you home without regard to cost. Evergreen owns a amazing collection of museum aircraft (including the Spruce Goose), an IMax theater, and is building a water park with a 747 with a slide through it - you can usually get in for free to these things by showing your ID (handy if you live near McMinnville, OR). Small company, everyone knows everyone else (both good and bad, but you won't be 'just a number' here). Evergreen has been in negotiations for a new contract for at least 3 years (current contract came into effect in 2000, I believe), and voted in ALPA 3 years ago. Management wants concessions (the business class travel, hotels for reserves in base, and catering are the items that management seems worked up about) - pilots feel current contract is below industry average and want increases; typical negotiations. Upgrade was slowed by age 65 change, most CA's are lifers, many FO's historically leave Evergreen for what they feel are better options for them - nobody is leaving now, there's nowhere to go. Not much growth expected, contraction risks are military flying reductions or losing the Boeing LCF contract (or MX shearing off the top of another 747 accidentally - they're old, so its likely cheaper to turn aircraft into beer cans then pay the $ to fix them if they need major MX). Evergreen historically furloughs the bottom 10-15% of the work force each December for 4 months or so, right after UPS peak (and now UPS is furloughing). Didn't furlough at all in Dec. 2009, furloughed for up to 9 months in Dec. 2008.

It's not for everyone, but it suits others nicely. I hope this lengthy synopsis helps. We're hiring right now (I think) but you need internals or the chutzpah to walk your own stuff in to get a call (it worked of a guy on this board in the past).

jrutt
02-25-2010, 08:15 AM
very nicely put EZ Rider.

spitfire1500
02-26-2010, 07:03 PM
Don't think there will be much more hiring. Evergreen lost the "Dreamlifter" contract as of 9-30! Its going to Atlas.

GIANT PILOT
02-28-2010, 12:22 AM
Don't think there will be much more hiring. Evergreen lost the "Dreamlifter" contract as of 9-30! Its going to Atlas.

I read this news on another forum, is there any confirmation of this rumor?

Green Giant
02-28-2010, 01:33 PM
No one knows for sure who will get the Dreamlifter contract. Who knows maybe Boeing will have there own pilots fly it.

With any fleet reductions comes pilot reductions. I would agree that pilot hiring may stop soon.

SOTeric
02-28-2010, 01:45 PM
No one knows for sure who will get the Dreamlifter contract. Who knows maybe Boeing will have there own pilots fly it.

With any fleet reductions comes pilot reductions. I would agree that pilot hiring may stop soon.

I understand the LCFs will be replaced 1-1 with -400s which will be flying more hours/month thus necessitating continued hiring. FWIW.

Green Giant
02-28-2010, 02:31 PM
I understand the LCFs will be replaced 1-1 with -400s which will be flying more hours/month thus necessitating continued hiring. FWIW.

Are these the same -400's that were suppose to be on property two years ago?

Green Giant
02-28-2010, 02:43 PM
SOTeric,

It sounds like you got hired so congrats. I guess taking the "bull by its horn" worked.

I hope that we get the -400's but don't believe it until you hear "Rotate" when you are flying one.

Cheers

uafurlough
03-20-2010, 03:59 PM
Any word on if/when Evergreen is going to start running new hire classes again?

jedinein
03-21-2010, 08:30 AM
How did you apply? Is it send a resume and cross your fingers? A ten page application online? Or is it drop by at freight dawg hours and drop a resume off?

Whaledriver
03-21-2010, 10:05 AM
If Evergreen is going to replace the LCF's one for one, they better hustle. Word is, Atlas will be operating them sooner than the Sep-Oct '10 time frame.

SOTeric
03-21-2010, 11:06 AM
If Evergreen is going to replace the LCF's one for one, they better hustle. Word is, Atlas will be operating them sooner than the Sep-Oct '10 time frame.

And who is this word from? Internet?

Must be true.

jrutt
03-21-2010, 03:43 PM
if atlas is going to operate these lcf before sept they better get moving this is not ur average acmi flying, and u have to find someone to do the sme maint.

Whaledriver
03-22-2010, 01:52 PM
Unless I'm missing something, it's still a -400 type and it's still an airplane. We're going to get qualified on the -8 in a three day class, the LCF can't be that different. Unpressurized cargo compartment, P&W motors, a little different air conditioning, some camera's, and a little more drag, OK, a lot more drag. With our new sim, the numbers from Boeing get plugged in and it fly's like an LCF one flight and a -8 the next.

Look, Evergreen went from never flying a -400 to operating them just fine. We've got over 12 years of -400 experience on the maintenance and operations side. Maybe, worst case, a one week class at Boeing for the maintenance guys.

BTW, we're getting numbers from Boeing that say you were ontime 93% of the time, not the 100% posted on some forums. Heck, we beat that with our classics on the AMC flying.

jrutt
03-22-2010, 04:28 PM
Good luck talk to me in a year or so and let me know how its going for ya. evergreen guys put alot of time and effort to make this lcf work, and ya see how far that got us.

Whaledriver
03-28-2010, 06:49 AM
There's a rumor going around that 40 plus furlough notices went out yesterday. If true, sorry to hear that, really sucks. Is this more a negotiating ploy, or were that many guys set up against the LCF's?

BTW, sounds like Atlas will pick up one LCF in July.

pilotgolfer
03-28-2010, 07:32 AM
There's a rumor going around that 40 plus furlough notices went out yesterday. If true, sorry to hear that, really sucks. Is this more a negotiating ploy, or were that many guys set up against the LCF's?

BTW, sounds like Atlas will pick up one LCF in July.


I am 3 from the bottom of the list. There has been no mention of a furlough. I just got emailed my travel arrangements to the simulator for next week. The Singapore 400 will be online in the next couple weeks and there are 2 Air France birds in the pipeline. Unless everything hits the fan in the next few weeks, I think you will see another new hire class before you see a furlough.

Whaledriver
03-28-2010, 08:41 AM
Sorry for the bad info and undue stress. It came from an ex-Zoner, still talking to current Zoners.

JustUnderPar
03-28-2010, 08:52 AM
Evergreen guys/gals!

Could you guys help out and take any picture of UPS cans/freight onboard your aircraft? PM me if you need more info.

uafurlough
04-02-2010, 12:10 PM
Saw this today:



Ore. airline sues Boeing over loss of contract
Story user rating:
OR State Wire
Published: Yesterday

SEATTLE (AP) - An Oregon airline is suing Boeing Co. after it was ditched as a contractor on the 787 supply chain.

Evergreen International Airlines Inc. of McMinnville won a contract in 2005 to fly and maintain Boeing's "Dreamlifter" super freighters, which are 747s converted to transport large sections of the company's new 787.

The company expected to have the contract for decades, even though it was subject to review every five years. Last month, Boeing notified Evergreen it was switching the contract to New York-based Atlas Air.

Evergreen sued Boeing in federal court in Seattle on Thursday. The company said it performed its duties under the contract, and that Boeing is only switching to Atlas because it owes Atlas nearly $1 billion over delays in delivering 747-8s the company ordered.

Evergreen says it will lose $175 million in profits, and Boeing should have to pay that.

A Boeing spokeswoman did not have any immediate comment on the lawsuit.

© 2010 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

GIANT PILOT
04-02-2010, 02:44 PM
When was the last time Evergreen bought a new aircraft from Boeing? Atlas has a very large order of 747-8's, and I can't blame Boeing for giving Atlas a shot at flying these special aircraft.

They weren't guaranteed this contract for the life of the 787 production lines, it's a renewable contract.

EZRider
04-14-2010, 04:25 AM
April 13, 2010

Evergreen International Airlines Requests Concessions from Its Pilots
Union to consider proposal as airline deals with financial troubles

WASHINGTON – Evergreen International Airlines (EIA) crewmembers, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA) said today that they will evaluate management’s request for concessions based on the union’s own internal economic analysis of the company’s current financial status. EIA management is seeking concessions from the pilots and flight engineers, who continue to work under 1999 wages and work rules. The crewmembers are being asked to accept significant changes to a number of important work rules in light of the company’s “financial crisis,” as current circumstances were described in a recent letter from EIA’s president.

“ALPA recognizes the company’s financial situation and is following proper procedures under our guidelines regarding management’s request for concessionary bargaining,” said William Fink, chairman of the Evergreen ALPA unit and EIA professional flight engineer. “It is the union’s job to protect the best interest of the pilots and flight engineers so these steps are necessary before entering into talks to provide the company givebacks.”

“Our union leaders and EIA crewmembers will have the backing and resources that ALPA provides to our members in this situation,” said Captain John Prater, ALPA president. “They can rely on the experience and knowledge maintained by this union as their support system.”

The two sides have met periodically over the past six years with little progress. Mediated talks began in 2005 under the supervision of the National Mediation Board (NMB). Discussions will continue with a mediator at NMB headquarters in Washington, D.C., later this week.

ALPA is the bargaining representative for the 224 pilots and flight engineers in service for EIA. Founded in 1931, ALPA represents 53,000 pilots at 38 airlines in the United States and Canada.

Visit the ALPA website at Alpa > About ALPA (http://www.alpa.org).

I think this sentence sums it up:

EIA management is seeking concessions from the pilots and flight engineers, who continue to work under 1999 wages and work rules.

The CPI has gone up 30% since 1999. Our contract has gone up 0% since 1999. Isn't THAT a concession?

HercDriver130
04-14-2010, 01:08 PM
Damn straight!! Hold the line.