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View Full Version : UPS- How Come??


Road Dawg
02-28-2010, 10:31 PM
1. N803up gets put down sent to the desert for retirement.
2. A UPS DC-8 is seen without letters all over the world flying for Murray/National Air hauling military frieght between Bagram and the USA.
3. The tail # is changed but still registered to UPS in Louisville.
4. Layoff crew members and mechanics due to not enough work???
5. Contractor flying a "retired" UPS jet, running military work but UPS claims not enough work to keep you working....
6. Great people company.....WOW


Shaggy1970
02-28-2010, 11:32 PM
This is because somewhere in the Jim Casey school of hard knocks they have yet to figure out that their employees are their most valuable asset! It's amazing that they have survived for 100 years with this mentality. Their size is the only thing that keeps them in business! Nothing more!

weatherman
02-28-2010, 11:43 PM
how come?

because ups thinks nothing of violating our collective bargaining agreement.

because ups is an evil and unethical organization.

because ups thinks it can get away with willful violation of federal labor laws.

because ups has so much cash nobody can stop them.


MaxKts
03-01-2010, 04:43 AM
Which airline is this thread about??? :D

K4FE
03-01-2010, 04:49 AM
Anybody know how long it takes for the FAA to update the registration site?
Just asking, because from what I've heard, National did buy the jet. If they really did, and they're carrying their own freight, it really has nothing to do with your evil and unethical employer, now does it?

On the other hand . . .
if the evil ones have entered into an underhanded scheme with Murray/National to target UPS pilots and subvert the IPA one airplane at a time . . . :eek: OMG!

Sorry guys, I know that this is very near and dear to you, but the sale of an airplane that can't be substantiated because the FAA is slow to update the registration website is hardly proof of a plot against you.

This isn't a meant to be flame, but it should be a sanity check.

FR8TFLYER
03-01-2010, 04:54 AM
Are you surprised? This company is run by a bunch of thugs! I beleive the IPA is already on this, but a phone call would not hurt.

CactusCrew
03-01-2010, 05:31 AM
Which airline is this thread about??? :D

Apparently UPS, Murray/National Air, and possibly (K4) Kalitta Air.

Not FedEx ... yet !


:D:D

11Fan
03-01-2010, 06:44 AM
Dawg,

Aviation Forums - Airspace from Flightglobal (http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/forums/ups-sells-dc-8-fleet-46091.aspx)

May answer some of your questions .

FrontSeat
03-01-2010, 06:54 AM
Their size is the only thing that keeps them in business! Nothing more!

yup 100% correct...if you think about it there is really nothing that UPS does well...they damage boxes deliver late frequently etc etc. They are just big and with little competition.

K4FE
03-01-2010, 07:14 AM
I (K4) don't have a dog in this hunt, but I really hate to see guys get all worked up about what is probably nothing.

I'm sure there are plenty of legitimate causes to be worked up about these days over there.
In my humble opinion, firing wildly at anything that someone perceives to be an issue is not nearly as effective a strategy as concentrating your efforts towards a known target.
Do your homework and concentrate your efforts. Don't get caught up in the rumor mill and all that emotional stuff. That's all counter-productive.

JethroFDX
03-01-2010, 07:31 AM
Do your homework and concentrate your efforts. Don't get caught up in the rumor mill and all that emotional stuff. That's all counter-productive.

Yeah, but what's the fun in that? :D

Road Dawg
03-01-2010, 07:46 AM
Anybody know how long it takes for the FAA to update the registration site?
Just asking, because from what I've heard, National did buy the jet. If they really did, and they're carrying their own freight, it really has nothing to do with your evil and unethical employer, now does it?

On the other hand . . .
if the evil ones have entered into an underhanded scheme with Murray/National to target UPS pilots and subvert the IPA one airplane at a time . . . :eek: OMG!

Sorry guys, I know that this is very near and dear to you, but the sale of an airplane that can't be substantiated because the FAA is slow to update the registration website is hardly proof of a plot against you.

This isn't a meant to be flame, but it should be a sanity check.
This thread is about the IPA, Local 2727 mechs, and UPS, it could eventually end up at YOUR airline by undercutting your job, the new tail number on the aircraft is N151CA registered to UPS so the FAA did thier job. There are work rules about aircraft owned by UPS and operated and maintained by others that my friends is a BIG violation of both unions. So rest assured they do what they want and pay whom they want....I, was just bringing the issue to light so my brothers at the IPA would do what they have to do...
RD.

Road Dawg
03-01-2010, 07:51 AM
Dawg,

Aviation Forums - Airspace from Flightglobal (http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/forums/ups-sells-dc-8-fleet-46091.aspx)

May answer some of your questions .

Wow, that's pretty huge, kinda saw that coming though.

Road Dawg
03-01-2010, 07:54 AM
Anybody know how long it takes for the FAA to update the registration site?
Just asking, because from what I've heard, National did buy the jet. If they really did, and they're carrying their own freight, it really has nothing to do with your evil and unethical employer, now does it?

On the other hand . . .
if the evil ones have entered into an underhanded scheme with Murray/National to target UPS pilots and subvert the IPA one airplane at a time . . . :eek: OMG!

Sorry guys, I know that this is very near and dear to you, but the sale of an airplane that can't be substantiated because the FAA is slow to update the registration website is hardly proof of a plot against you.

This isn't a meant to be flame, but it should be a sanity check.

Not taken as a flame however you must understand if you were told at your company, no work out there, parking aircraft, layoff pilots and mechanics and then you see your old aircraft flying scheduled military runs would you not be the least bit concerned? Next it could be your regular Dallas turn? Even if you know they are thugs. Just an FYI money can't buy your way out of everything.
RD

K4FE
03-01-2010, 07:59 AM
N151CA is for a Shorts.
I'm sure you noticed that the registration certificate for N155CA was issued on 10/9/90. Obviously something is amiss.

K4FE
03-01-2010, 08:01 AM
I absolutely see your point. Don't necessarily agree entirely with the logic. :)

CactusCrew
03-01-2010, 08:10 AM
N151CA is for a Shorts.
I'm sure you noticed that the registration certificate for N155CA was issued on 10/9/90. Obviously something is amiss.

OMG ... that number is in my logbook a few times.

just FYI, the CA stands for Clark Aviation (originally based at CXY) then Pennsylvania Commuter Airlines in MDT.

More trivia, many of the CA numbers will also add up to 7.

Enough of that, showing my age ...

Back to the original rant !

liftr92
03-01-2010, 08:14 AM
saw N803DH and N807DH on LERT ramp last summer, fresh DHL paint job on both...

11Fan
03-01-2010, 08:20 AM
saw N803DH and N807DH on LERT ramp last summer, fresh DHL paint job on both...


Don't know if you picked up on the scent, but Dawg's hunt is on N803UP

757upspilot
03-01-2010, 09:09 AM
Not taken as a flame however you must understand if you were told at your company, no work out there, parking aircraft, layoff pilots and mechanics and then you see your old aircraft flying scheduled military runs would you not be the least bit concerned? Next it could be your regular Dallas turn? Even if you know they are thugs. Just an FYI money can't buy your way out of everything.
RD
Just taging on to this. UPS is not going after or flying the milatary charters they have been awarded. They sell a fleet of airplanes that almost immediately show up flying the same milatary charters . The question is why where the airplanes sold and why didn't UPS use these airplanes to fly the charters.
UPS has chosen to eliminate an entire fleet type and lay off mechanics and pilots.
Given the companies history of less than truthfulness and failure to comply with legally negotiated contracts it appears they are not trusted.

liftr92
03-01-2010, 10:14 AM
Don't know if you picked up on the scent, but Dawg's hunt is on N803UP

A good hound dog knows his scent - 803/807 struck a cord, found ye olde log book and noted flights in 803UP & 807UP, irony is two months after UPS ends DC-8 flights, there's a couple of freshly painted DC-8's labeled 803DH & 807DH - coincidence - I don't know, but remember just because I'm not paranoid doesn't mean that everyone's not out to get me...

11Fan
03-01-2010, 12:32 PM
I actually met a paranoid schizophrenic who swore he was out to get himself.


I don't know. They seems like nice guys to me.

Road Dawg
03-01-2010, 03:52 PM
N151CA is for a Shorts.
I'm sure you noticed that the registration certificate for N155CA was issued on 10/9/90. Obviously something is amiss.

Sorry it is 155ca.
RD

FliFast
03-01-2010, 09:07 PM
151CA, I flew that wreck also...4498Y another Shorts that we see on the ramp in SDF.

Here's a question for the "hunting dawgs", who owns all the Bluebird/Maersk airplanes that fly out of Cologne.

FF

say that again
03-01-2010, 09:37 PM
This thread is about the IPA, Local 2727 mechs, and UPS, it could eventually end up at YOUR airline by undercutting your job, the new tail number on the aircraft is N151CA registered to UPS so the FAA did thier job. There are work rules about aircraft owned by UPS and operated and maintained by others that my friends is a BIG violation of both unions. So rest assured they do what they want and pay whom they want....I, was just bringing the issue to light so my brothers at the IPA would do what they have to do...
RD.
For a period of time, (mid 80's) UPS owned a lot of American Airlines MD-80's. Are you saying that flying should be ours too? Where in the contract does it spell out that all UPS "owned" aircraft will be flown by IPA crew members? FWIW, UPS does in fact go after military charter flying. I'm on one of those trips now. I see a lot of those trips in the current bid package as well.

jonnyjetprop
03-02-2010, 12:12 AM
As an non UPS pilot, I'd have to ask a couple of questions.

Since the military splits up their business, is UPS flying their full allotment of flying on other planes? If so, then UPS can't just go out and fly more. It doesn't work that way. The cargo business is further split between contoured and non contoured (IE: B 747 and AN 124). So you'd have to look at that too. I know that UPS is on the FedEX team and you'd have to look at the split of business within your team too. An example is that World flies the contoured cargo within the Alliance team using our MD-11's. Since we got B 747's, we can only fly the non contoured cargo that our teams primary member (Evergreen) can't handle.

REGHI
03-02-2010, 05:36 AM
Where in the contract does it spell out that all UPS "owned" aircraft will be flown by IPA crew members?

Article 1.C.2 (Scope) It is agreed that all present and future domestic flying on aircraft with a payload weight of more than 12,899 lbs. [19,000 lbs. for international flights] including but not limited to, revenue flying, ferry flights, charters, training flights, test flights, or other utilization of Company owned or leased aircraft in and for the service of the Company, or any affiliate of the Company, shall be performed by crewmembers on the United Parcel Service Crewmember Seniority List in accordance with the terms and conditions of this Agreement......

757upspilot
03-02-2010, 05:49 AM
As an non UPS pilot, I'd have to ask a couple of questions.

Since the military splits up their business, is UPS flying their full allotment of flying on other planes? If so, then UPS can't just go out and fly more. It doesn't work that way. The cargo business is further split between contoured and non contoured (IE: B 747 and AN 124). So you'd have to look at that too. I know that UPS is on the FedEX team and you'd have to look at the split of business within your team too. An example is that World flies the contoured cargo within the Alliance team using our MD-11's. Since we got B 747's, we can only fly the non contoured cargo that our teams primary member (Evergreen) can't handle. i will let Salty address the bulk of this. From indications UPS is not flying its full allotment.

L'il J.Seinfeld
03-02-2010, 08:11 AM
As an non UPS pilot, I'd have to ask a couple of questions.

Since the military splits up their business, is UPS flying their full allotment of flying on other planes? If so, then UPS can't just go out and fly more. It doesn't work that way. The cargo business is further split between contoured and non contoured (IE: B 747 and AN 124). So you'd have to look at that too. I know that UPS is on the FedEX team and you'd have to look at the split of business within your team too. An example is that World flies the contoured cargo within the Alliance team using our MD-11's. Since we got B 747's, we can only fly the non contoured cargo that our teams primary member (Evergreen) can't handle.

I don't think that's right that UPS and FDX are on the same team. Are you sure about that?

jonnyjetprop
03-02-2010, 09:32 AM
To be honest, I can't find a referrence on the internet for fy 2010. I know that the teams change year by year and I was supprised when someone told me FedEx and you were on the same team. The general drift is the same. Is UPS flying it's full alloment or not? We have planes sitting, but we can't fly any more mil cargo. We are at our limit.

I don't think that's right that UPS and FDX are on the same team. Are you sure about that?

SaltyDog
03-02-2010, 12:04 PM
To be honest, I can't find a referrence on the internet for fy 2010. I know that the teams change year by year and I was supprised when someone told me FedEx and you were on the same team. The general drift is the same. Is UPS flying it's full alloment or not? We have planes sitting, but we can't fly any more mil cargo. We are at our limit.

Little time, but I'll pull them up when I have a moment, UPS and FedEx are two different team leaders. UPS competes against the FedEx team. National is on the UPS team and is using a former UPS DC-8 to fly UPS Team FY2010 International Airlift Charter contract award that UPS won't fly, but turns over to Kalitta, Southern, National. UPS basically flies what the others can't (hit DOD govt. limits like your airline). UPS is only flying more in FY2010 because they actually bid higher for FY2010.
No reason UPS can't put the excess airlift capacity into flying more of the UPS Team award.

Soyathink
03-02-2010, 12:35 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_(5M)

I seem to recall a browntail 744 stopping off @ LPLA more than once with in the last year.

How many years has it been since the 8 flew out of CONUS?

So UPS sold a 40 year old plane that was not reliable and expensive to operate to a company that has 2 63's, 1 71 and a saab and 2 jetstream's.

So you are saying UPS should have kept the 8 and not send the 744 for CRAF flights? :rolleyes:

Soyathink
03-02-2010, 12:40 PM
A good hound dog knows his scent - 803/807 struck a cord, found ye olde log book and noted flights in 803UP & 807UP, irony is two months after UPS ends DC-8 flights, there's a couple of freshly painted DC-8's labeled 803DH & 807DH - coincidence - I don't know, but remember just because I'm not paranoid doesn't mean that everyone's not out to get me...

Those have been flying with DHL for years. Did you know UPS has a UFO captured at a secret domicle in Roswell? Crewbuss driver said they are doing most of the flying there.:D

SaltyDog
03-02-2010, 09:51 PM
As an non UPS pilot, I'd have to ask a couple of questions.

Since the military splits up their business, is UPS flying their full allotment of flying on other planes? If so, then UPS can't just go out and fly more. It doesn't work that way. The cargo business is further split between contoured and non contoured (IE: B 747 and AN 124). So you'd have to look at that too. I know that UPS is on the FedEX team and you'd have to look at the split of business within your team too. An example is that World flies the contoured cargo within the Alliance team using our MD-11's. Since we got B 747's, we can only fly the non contoured cargo that our teams primary member (Evergreen) can't handle.


JJP,
Here is the link for the FY2010 awards.
The US Military’s International Airlift Contracts (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/The-US-Militarys-International-Airlift-Contracts-05066/)

Bottom line: UPS could fly more of the UPS air team lift, even the 74 could fly the MRAP-ATV lift currently in play. Instead DOD can't get enough so they use non US AN-124's etc.

SaltyDog
03-02-2010, 09:56 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_(5M)

I seem to recall a browntail 744 stopping off @ LPLA more than once with in the last year.

How many years has it been since the 8 flew out of CONUS?

So UPS sold a 40 year old plane that was not reliable and expensive to operate to a company that has 2 63's, 1 71 and a saab and 2 jetstream's.

So you are saying UPS should have kept the 8 and not send the 744 for CRAF flights? :rolleyes:

No, however, UPS could have kept the 8's and backfilled domino style to provide the MD-11 capacity to fly more DOD International Airlift charters (not CRAF, which isn't activated presently).
Takes real management to make the profit. UPS has smart people, so very possible if they wanted to make the money to manage the volumes between core business and the likewise profitable DOD charters. FedEx has a good management program to do exactly what UPS could accomplish.

CactusCrew
03-03-2010, 03:07 AM
To tag onto SDs explanation above. After talking with a member of our charter team (logistics type on my flight), there is much more business available for his small department. The problem is convincing people outside of his department to commit resources to pursue such business.

Soyathink
03-03-2010, 10:06 AM
To tag onto SDs explanation above. After talking with a member of our charter team (logistics type on my flight), there is much more business available for his small department. The problem is convincing people outside of his department to commit resources to pursue such business.

That is a great argument if it is UPS Supply Chain Solutions. Remember a year or two after 9-11 when the guy shipped himself from New York to Dallas on a Kitty Hawk aircraft? I remember that was brokered thru UPS Logistics. Have things changed that UPS SCS is using UPS Aircraft now? Then they were using the lowest bidder. That would be something to be upset about.

jonnyjetprop
03-04-2010, 05:15 AM
Thanks for the info.

JJP,
Here is the link for the FY2010 awards.
The US Military’s International Airlift Contracts (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/The-US-Militarys-International-Airlift-Contracts-05066/)

Bottom line: UPS could fly more of the UPS air team lift, even the 74 could fly the MRAP-ATV lift currently in play. Instead DOD can't get enough so they use non US AN-124's etc.



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