Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




MX727
03-04-2010, 05:16 AM
Here is a corrected link to the Action Center:

Legislative Action Center (http://www.vocusgr.com/gr/WebPublish/Controller.aspx?SiteName=ALPA&Definition=ViewIssue&IssueID=884)

It takes 30 seconds.


v1 uh-oh
03-04-2010, 05:23 AM
I did it last night using the email from ALPA. Very quick and easy, hopefully effective.

MaydayMark
03-04-2010, 06:01 AM
No kidding guys, this is VERY IMPORTANT. ALPA couldn't have made it any easier, click on a few links, then click on send. It literally takes ONE MINUTE. Take the time to do it.

DO IT NOW!


vschip
03-04-2010, 06:17 AM
Here is a corrected link to the Action Center:

Legislative Action Center (http://www.vocusgr.com/gr/WebPublish/Controller.aspx?SiteName=ALPA&Definition=ViewIssue&IssueID=884)

It takes 30 seconds.

Actually to takes 2 minutes with a crappy hotel wireless :( but very easy, and very much worth the effort, IMHO.

Velcro Captain
03-04-2010, 07:06 AM
No kidding guys, this is VERY IMPORTANT. ALPA couldn't have made it any easier, click on a few links, then click on send. It literally takes ONE MINUTE. Take the time to do it.

DO IT NOW!

Correct me if I’m wrong, but last I knew as a career USAF guy, the military respects CVR data much the same as air carriers have traditionally done. If I am correct, I think the ex-military flyers in our ranks need to play the military veteran card here. Everyone else is unashamed to play their endangered-special-interest-tree/frog lover-card, why shouldn’t we?

If the SC senator thinks this CVR bill is such a great idea, is he willing to write it into the next Defense Authorization Bill? Let him suggest such "professionalism" is also needed by military flyers, and see how many co-signers he gets with that.

Whatever, it’s super easy to do the ALPA link to your senator as a minimum – so please support ALPA on this! It’s also easy to add some of your own text to the standard form letter. I, for example, pointed out to B. Corker, and L. Alexander, that in my opinion as an ex-military career flyer, and licensed pilot of 38 years, this would set aviation safety back about 50 years.

bozobigtop
03-04-2010, 07:24 AM
I do not believe many of these senators care if they inadvertly set aviation safety back 50 years if it looks like they are doing something right now, anything looks better than doing nothing.

FDX28
03-04-2010, 07:47 AM
I'm fine with it as long as we're able to put CVR's in their (Pres, senator's, rep's) offices and open channel on their blackberry's. :eek:

Shuckers86
03-04-2010, 08:47 AM
It takes seconds to send the letter. Just do it!

Sidebar: Do you really want to hear what Nancy Pelosi says in private? It would scare most of us to death.

72Bluestreak31
03-04-2010, 09:06 AM
This is worth it; easier than Ebay and you don't need a credit card.

Bitme
03-04-2010, 09:42 AM
I'm fine with it as long as we're able to put CVR's in their (Pres, senator's, rep's) offices and open channel on their blackberry's. :eek:

I second this motion! And, put it on a version of CSPAN with continuous feed.:eek:

Knots2you
03-04-2010, 10:01 AM
Here is a corrected link to the Action Center:

Legislative Action Center (http://www.vocusgr.com/gr/WebPublish/Controller.aspx?SiteName=ALPA&Definition=ViewIssue&IssueID=884)

It takes 30 seconds.

Excellent post. Just did it. And people wonder why we need a union. They did a nice job of making it easy to voice your opinion to those who matter. Good job.

Flaps50
03-04-2010, 10:30 AM
Done as well.

Could you imagine, "I'm thinking about calling in sick because I'm not sure if I'm feeling real well..." Next thing you know you're being violated for flying sick... or "The union should do this and that..." now you got a big target painted on your back and it's legal!

Help stop this now!!!

pipe
03-04-2010, 10:38 AM
Did it.

PIPE

diesel 8
03-04-2010, 10:53 AM
Did my part as well. Time for everyone to get on board with this one

KnightFlyer
03-04-2010, 11:22 AM
Contribute to the PAC too. You won't miss $10-$20/month.

KwigKongTunt
03-04-2010, 12:09 PM
Something this important should get even us lurkers on board. 2 emails, 2 phone-calls, 10 minutes.

cheers

Balut
03-04-2010, 12:23 PM
Done and done.

FrankTheTank
03-04-2010, 12:32 PM
Done. Fast! I hope it works! Cause we all know how they listen 'to the will of the people' on the hill :mad:

fr8av8r
03-04-2010, 12:33 PM
Done!

How do we know this bill wasn't originally written by FDX mgmt? :eek:

Airbusdriver
03-04-2010, 12:41 PM
Done. So easy even a Cavema... err... even a Marine could do it.:D
And I should know.

JethroFDX
03-04-2010, 01:42 PM
Done.

Bump

frozenboxhauler
03-04-2010, 02:08 PM
just sent it off.
cheers,
fbh

Laughing_Jakal
03-04-2010, 04:04 PM
dittos............................................ ....

ANCFRTDG
03-04-2010, 04:56 PM
Also just completed it! This is the most immediate threat to our profession! I agree that President and Congress should be held to the same standards! After I am just flying an airplane. They on the other hand are in control of the future of our country. Of course they should also have to submit to random booze and drug testing too! Leadership by example!
If this this picks up momentum in Congress it could be the motivation for some sort of National show of displeasure RBTL. I get ill just thinking about it.

iflyatnite
03-04-2010, 05:00 PM
I did my part!

Overnitefr8
03-04-2010, 05:06 PM
Been there, done that.

skypine27
03-04-2010, 06:44 PM
Did it. Thx for the link

DWN3GRN
03-05-2010, 06:00 AM
March 3, 2010
Dear ALPA-PAC Member,
I have some alarming news from Capitol Hill that I want to share with you immediately. I know you'll be as outraged as I am!
Legislation was just introduced in the United States Senate that will put our managements right in the cockpit with us on every flight we make. That's right.

The bill will allow airlines free access to the information on CVRs and FDRs
and to use that information ". . .to improve pilot performance. . ." and make
sure we, as pilots, are "performing at the highest levels. . . ."

In other words, the legislation will provide legal cover to management to review CVRs and FDRs for the purpose of prosecuting pilots.

Congress has put forth some pretty despicable proposals in the past, but this one may well take the cake! Here are the shocking details:

Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC), the Ranking Member of the Senate Aviation Subcommittee, is the ring leader. His bill, S. 3048, the Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act, wouldpermit airlines to freely audit CVRs and FDRs to:




• discipline or discharge pilots or flight engineers,

• evaluate and monitor the judgment and performance of pilots, and
• justify or require pilots to submit to proficiency checks.

He’s already sent out a request, asking other Senators to sponsor his bill. . .and there may well be other anti-union sympathizers in Congress who will support this vindictive proposition!

His message stated,

"Unfortunately, all information from Cockpit Voice and Flight Data Recorders is specifically blocked from airlines by provisions within the pilot union contracts with the airlines. This must change. The stakes are just too high.”

If that wasn't bad enough, it continued,

"We must give airlines every tool available so they can ensure that their pilots are performing at the highest levels. . . ."

To make matters worse, DeMint’s staff is boasting that the NTSB endorses this approach to improve cockpit safety. In fact, that’s a bit of a stretch. The NTSB is calling for airlines to review and analyze all recorded information to identify safety trends as a way to watchdog the workplace, but notes that the reviews should be done anonymously and could not be used to punish individual pilots.

Despite the NTSB’s reassurances, this is a slippery slope that none of us wants to get near!

Is your blood boiling yet? Mine sure is. Can you imagine the problems and harassment S. 3048 could lead to? To say nothing of the impact it will have on our voluntary safety data reporting programs, like ASAP and FOQA. They’ll be destroyed and the accident investigation process will be seriously compromised!

But I agree with DeMint on one thing: the stakes are definitely too high – too high to allow this mockery of professional airline pilots to proceed.

I remember when a similar idea was proposed back in the late 1970’s. Langhorne Bond, President Jimmy Carter’s Transportation Secretary, called for random reviews of CVRs and FDRs by the FAA.

ALPA fought that deplorable plan with all its political might. Our lobbyists worked to convince members of Congress that the proposal was ill-conceived, unnecessary, and would seriously threaten the rights of pilots. In the end, because of ALPA’s efforts, Congress prevailed and the FAA scrapped the plan.

That’s exactly what we’re going to do this time, too. We will not be bullied and we will not back down. ALPA intends to use every weapon in our arsenal to oppose Senator DeMint’s disgraceful bill. . .and with your help, we will soundly defeat it!

We’ve already begun our work. Our Government Affairs team is educating Senators about the serious problems and potential persecution inherent in the intrusive and unfettered access provided in S. 3048. We’re urging our congressional allies not to co-sponsor S. 3048 but instead to help us quash this contemptible legislation before it gains any traction. We’re working with the congressional committee staffs to urge them to stay away from this impending landmine.

Now we must broaden our battle plan to involve all ALPA members, including you. Your active participation and that of every ALPA pilot is essential to defeat Senator DeMint’s plan to undercut our hard-won professional standards.

As an ALPA-PAC supporter, you understand the importance of a strong, fully-supported PAC. You know our PAC has helped stop extreme proposals – like DeMint's – in the past. Because this bill is so offensive and misguided, I hope you'll consider making a one-time special PAC donation today to help fight S. 3048. If we don't have the resources, we risk losing this fight – a fight literally for our careers.

You can make a secure online ALPA-PAC donation now by clicking here. Your contribution of $25, $50, $100, $200 or whatever you can afford will be used immediately to help halt Senator DeMint’s plan for pilots dead in its tracks.

We’ve also launched a nationwide grassroots Call to Action on S. 3048 to get every ALPA member to contact your U.S. Senators and tell them that you strongly oppose this misguided legislation. By using our Call to Action site, your Senators will be identified automatically. A prepared message is waiting for you to send. Just a few keystrokes will have your messages on the way to Capitol Hill to bolster our collective efforts to defeat DeMint’s bill. Click here to send your messages now.

But please remember your ALPA-PAC contribution. I know there are many demands on your paycheck. Our nation’s fragile economy makes us all cautious spenders. That’s exactly why we need to build the strongest, most powerful PAC program possible to help protect and secure your career as a professional airline pilot.

Click here to make your special contribution to ALPA-PAC and make sure the voice of ALPA’s over 50,000 pilots is heard loud and clear on Capitol Hill on this latest assault on our profession.

We can’t do it alone here in Washington. We need your support and that of your fellow ALPA pilots. Like Senator DeMint said, “The stakes are just too high.” We cannot allow the Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act to become law and make a sham of our great profession. I’m counting on your help. Don’t let me – or yourself – down.

In Solidarity,

DornierPilot
03-05-2010, 06:59 AM
Just wanted to use this topic as a plug for each APC ALPA member to step up and contribute $20/month or more via dues checkoff to the PAC. Seriously, whether you like it or not, this is the way the game is played and we've got to have more participation to win. To those of you that are already doing your part, a huge Thank You!!!

Lifizgud
03-05-2010, 01:16 PM
Just wanted to use this topic as a plug for each APC ALPA member to step up and contribute $20/month or more via dues checkoff to the PAC. Seriously, whether you like it or not, this is the way the game is played and we've got to have more participation to win. To those of you that are already doing your part, a huge Thank You!!!

Just shot a note to all my Congressmen, plus Sen. DeMint. Oberstar doesn't accept e-mails from people other than his constituents, so it's up to Minnesotans to scream at him.

On a side note, I have a hard time listening to any of these people who urged me to support all this 'change' and now are scrambling to get me to support them in fixing their mistakes. May be the way the game is played, but I'm tired of games, and I'd rather support the people I want to get in office directly rather than trusting the PAC and their poor choices.

FWIW...

ReadyToGo
03-05-2010, 04:02 PM
Oh come on people! Writing your senators does'nt do a damn thing! They are just as full of garbage as the people that run regionals. Your mail will be mixed in with the 4th graders from the howard county school district. Use your noodles here! We need to step up!

SOLIDARITY NEEDED!

FXDX
03-05-2010, 04:22 PM
ALPA has actively lobbied for issues that directly impacted my career in a negative manner and in support of politicians whose values I don't share.

Throwing more money at the PAC to continue more of the same doesn't seem like a smart play to me.

MajorKong
03-05-2010, 04:59 PM
ALPA has actively lobbied for issues that directly impacted my career in a negative manner and in support of politicians whose values I don't share.

Throwing more money at the PAC to continue more of the same doesn't seem like a smart play to me.

Maybe ALPA PAC should realign themselves with the party that the majority of airline pilots support. If they start giving money to them instead of the communists, ALPA PAC would probably get more money from the members. They would have more money to work with. Then maybe the politicians the airline pilots want would support airline pilots but not the other thugs normally connected to unions. Just a thought.

HazCan
03-05-2010, 05:12 PM
ALPA PAC gives money to elected officials that agree with us on OUR (job) issues. Period, end of story. So, give to the ALPA PAC, then give to the NRA PAC, etc, etc.... If you like your job, give to the ALPA PAC. If you don't, then give money to Sen. DeMint and the anti-labor crowd. Pretty simple.

JethroFDX
03-05-2010, 05:19 PM
Maybe ALPA PAC should realign themselves with the party that the majority of airline pilots support. If they start giving money to them instead of the communists, ALPA PAC would probably get more money from the members. They would have more money to work with. Then maybe the politicians the airline pilots want would support airline pilots but not the other thugs normally connected to unions. Just a thought.

Good point. It's interesting that most pilots are conservative, my opinion, but unions mostly support democrat candidates. Seems like if we fired off more of these letters to our elected officials they would know who some of their voters are. This is just an opinion.

olly
03-05-2010, 08:40 PM
ALPA has actively lobbied for issues that directly impacted my career in a negative manner and in support of politicians whose values I don't share.

Throwing more money at the PAC to continue more of the same doesn't seem like a smart play to me.
Discounting age 60, don't know of legislation that ALPA has lobbied for that is negative for an airline pilot's career. ALPA PAC's intent is to enhance & preserve our career through the legislators that listen & vote for policies in our economic favor.
Personal politics & values is not their job, nor a litmus test for who they will/not support.

If you read the publications (email, magazine, web site) you may become aware of the legislation that ALPA PAC advaocates, and lobbies against in our favor.
If funding ALPA PAC is not smart in your view, how do we ensure that we have a voice in the legislative process? Do you think that the ATA, and Fred's lobbiest examine politicians values? Are you aware that ATA outspends ALPA PAC greater than 10:1 to ensure the "business" (read- anti-labor) view points are considered.

ALPA PAC has had some successes, the last few magazines have highlighted them. Do you think they would have achieved them without "access"?

PAC contributions assist in access- to get our story to the legislators. No access, and they hear a one sided story. That story is not in your best interest regardless of your personl values. I"m still seething over the age 60 issue, but I understand how politics effects our industry, and there really is no other way to "get access" unless the President uses his political appointee power to install & maintain labor friendly leaders at the cabinent, director & administrator level in the DoT, NTSB, FAA, Commerce, NLA, & NLRB and a host of other positions.

Huck
03-05-2010, 08:57 PM
I don't back the PAC because I have no say in what they lobby for.

They can look to the APAAD members for money. That's who they helped.

Only thing worse than betrayal is having to pay for that betrayal.

"Discounting Age 60...." That's a mighty big "Discounting".

Superpilot92
03-05-2010, 09:10 PM
did it a couple times

olly
03-05-2010, 09:13 PM
Maybe ALPA PAC should realign themselves with the party that the majority of airline pilots support. If they start giving money to them instead of the communists, ALPA PAC would probably get more money from the members. They would have more money to work with. Then maybe the politicians the airline pilots want would support airline pilots but not the other thugs normally connected to unions. Just a thought.
If you're an ALPA member, value your career, and want an understanding of our industry, I highly recommend you read "Flying the Line, Part II". As an ex-military guy, I had the standard viewpoints.

However, after reading the book, verifying the facts, and personally experiencing a baknruptcy, while watching big biz engage in tactics aided & abeted by very conservative judges & politicians, I have come to a different view. Most pilots are cut from a similar cloth. Most military guys are raised in a culture where you take care of your people, as well as espouse other "traditional" values. You'll find that some of the same "conservatives" that publicly espouse the mantra, execute legislative action and direction that disenfranchises the average American and labor in particular.

You can read it, verify the facts, and judge for yourself the policies, and politicians that support Americans at large or big biz, and who claim to be ethical. If you're really interested you can pm me I and can send you a few primers. Do some reading on Frank Lorenzo, and notice who was in office that allowed his carnage on tens of thousands of American citizens. Check Andy Card while your at it. Notice who he worked for as he heped push thru de-regulation of our industry. Notice who was in office when Lorenzo was banned.

There are politicians on both side of the aisle that favor our industry. Unfortunately, there are more politicians on a certain side of the aisle that disfavor labor, that have & will again write, sponsor & vote policies that are negative to airline pilots & labor in general.

Aligning with them would be cutting your own throat, they have absolutely zero interest in you, your families' or your profession's well being, regardless of what they say in press conferences- look at their votes, appointees, policies and sponsorship.

olly
03-05-2010, 09:20 PM
I don't back the PAC because I have no say in what they lobby for.

They can look to the APAAD members for money. That's who they helped.

Only thing worse than betrayal is having to pay for that betrayal.

"Discounting Age 60...." That's a mighty big "Discounting".
Still bitter about age 60. However, the majority of the stuff they do is in our benefit. I view it as a net positive. We do have a collective voice in what the lobby for, depends how involved you are, and how effective we are at communicating our positions to ALPA leadership.

Didn't work at all for age 60, I'll admit (still miffed- going to the 727 panel now at age 49), but again they were fighting some forces on the hill that they "may" not have been able to overcome. We'll never know if they "may" have been able to turn it off, but it's water under the bridge, and we have to be wordly enough to focus on the challenges that are in front of us.

Huck
03-05-2010, 09:54 PM
I respect your objectivity. Maybe I'll be able to do follow you someday.

Skimmology
03-05-2010, 10:14 PM
FE would like confirmation that we did this. Send him a short email and just say you did it.

You can also find this by going to Alpa > About ALPA (http://www.alpa.org), sign in to “Members Only”, select Legislation & ALPA-PAC, in the first “call to action” select “Take action now”, log in again, it should be self-explanatory from here.) You will see the information for your two senators. You can use the sample letter or create your own.

Afterwards, please let me know via e-mail that you have contacted your legislators. Your help and participation is greatly appreciated and needed.

HazCan
03-06-2010, 12:00 AM
If you're an ALPA member, value your career, and want an understanding of our industry, I highly recommend you read "Flying the Line, Part II". As an ex-military guy, I had the standard viewpoints.

However, after reading the book, verifying the facts, and personally experiencing a baknruptcy, while watching big biz engage in tactics aided & abeted by very conservative judges & politicians, I have come to a different view. Most pilots are cut from a similar cloth. Most military guys are raised in a culture where you take care of your people, as well as espouse other "traditional" values. You'll find that some of the same "conservatives" that publicly espouse the mantra, execute legislative action and direction that disenfranchises the average American and labor in particular.

You can read it, verify the facts, and judge for yourself the policies, and politicians that support Americans at large or big biz, and who claim to be ethical. If you're really interested you can pm me I and can send you a few primers. Do some reading on Frank Lorenzo, and notice who was in office that allowed his carnage on tens of thousands of American citizens. Check Andy Card while your at it. Notice who he worked for as he heped push thru de-regulation of our industry. Notice who was in office when Lorenzo was banned.

There are politicians on both side of the aisle that favor our industry. Unfortunately, there are more politicians on a certain side of the aisle that disfavor labor, that have & will again write, sponsor & vote policies that are negative to airline pilots & labor in general.

Aligning with them would be cutting your own throat, they have absolutely zero interest in you, your families' or your profession's well being, regardless of what they say in press conferences- look at their votes, appointees, policies and sponsorship.

Beautifully said, Olly!!

FDXLAG
03-06-2010, 04:32 AM
When Alpapac lobbies for my quality of life issues like taxes, health care and freedom they can expect a contribution from me. If they have a list of candidates they want to support, pass it on I will pick and choose based on how that candidate impacts my values.

JethroFDX
03-06-2010, 05:35 AM
Have you read Hard Landings? It's a good read, a bit dated now, and has quite a few chapters on the evil Lord Lorenzo.

HazCan
03-06-2010, 10:20 AM
When Alpapac lobbies for my quality of life issues like taxes, health care and freedom they can expect a contribution from me. If they have a list of candidates they want to support, pass it on I will pick and choose based on how that candidate impacts my values.

Does any of these sound like QOL issues?

Protecting Your Flying:
• ALPA stopped legislation that would have outsourced your flying to foreign airlines for delivering U.S. mail overseas.
• Through an all-out lobbying assault on Congress, ALPA blocked a 2006 DOT proposal that would have permitted foreign interests to control U.S. airlines.

Protecting Your Benefits:
• ALPA is lobbying for legislation that would allow pilots whose defined benefit plans had been terminated to receive, at age 60, the full PBGC benefit guarantee that is payable to others at 65.
• ALPA ensured that companies could not make unilateral changes to pilot contracts and benefits plans as a result of the increase in the retirement age to 65, saving your families millions of dollars.
• ALPA successfully supported extending unemployment benefits for furloughed airline workers following the economic downturn post-9/11.
• ALPA led a successful seven-year campaign to prohibit states from taxing former residents’ pension benefits—so-called “source taxation.”
• ALPA has stopped congressional attempts to tax your fringe benefits—including your airline pass privileges and employer-paid health care—countless times in the past 20 years.

Protecting You in the Workplace:
• ALPA persuaded Congress to require the TSA to move on expedited screening and crew access programs in the 9/11 Commission implementing bill, signed into law in August 2007.
• ALPA also led the effort to obtain legislation preventing the premature release of CVRs.
• ALPA killed many ill-conceived pilot-related proposals in Congress through the years, including:
o preventing the FAA from randomly reviewing CVRs and FDRs—a move intended to “improve cockpit discipline”;
o making pilot infractions of FARs subject to criminal penalties up to $25,000 and/or one year imprisonment;
o gutting the FAA/NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System.
• ALPA got Congress to remove the FAA from the Civil Penalties Program, giving pilots a fair process in pilot cases through the NTSB.
• ALPA has consistently fought legislative attempts to change the Railway Labor Act to favor management.
• ALPA blocked legislation by Senators McCain (R-AZ) and Lott (R-MS) to impose “baseball-style” binding arbitration during contract negotiations. This bill also would have eliminated the right to strike and diminished the role of the NMB in airline labor negotiations.

FDXLAG
03-06-2010, 10:42 AM
Does any of these sound like QOL issues?

Protecting Your Flying:
• ALPA stopped legislation that would have outsourced your flying to foreign airlines for delivering U.S. mail overseas.
• Through an all-out lobbying assault on Congress, ALPA blocked a 2006 DOT proposal that would have permitted foreign interests to control U.S. airlines.

Protecting Your Benefits:
• ALPA is lobbying for legislation that would allow pilots whose defined benefit plans had been terminated to receive, at age 60, the full PBGC benefit guarantee that is payable to others at 65.
• ALPA ensured that companies could not make unilateral changes to pilot contracts and benefits plans as a result of the increase in the retirement age to 65, saving your families millions of dollars.
• ALPA successfully supported extending unemployment benefits for furloughed airline workers following the economic downturn post-9/11.
• ALPA led a successful seven-year campaign to prohibit states from taxing former residents’ pension benefits—so-called “source taxation.”
• ALPA has stopped congressional attempts to tax your fringe benefits—including your airline pass privileges and employer-paid health care—countless times in the past 20 years.

Protecting You in the Workplace:
• ALPA persuaded Congress to require the TSA to move on expedited screening and crew access programs in the 9/11 Commission implementing bill, signed into law in August 2007.
• ALPA also led the effort to obtain legislation preventing the premature release of CVRs.
• ALPA killed many ill-conceived pilot-related proposals in Congress through the years, including:
o preventing the FAA from randomly reviewing CVRs and FDRs—a move intended to “improve cockpit discipline”;
o making pilot infractions of FARs subject to criminal penalties up to $25,000 and/or one year imprisonment;
o gutting the FAA/NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System.
• ALPA got Congress to remove the FAA from the Civil Penalties Program, giving pilots a fair process in pilot cases through the NTSB.
• ALPA has consistently fought legislative attempts to change the Railway Labor Act to favor management.
• ALPA blocked legislation by Senators McCain (R-AZ) and Lott (R-MS) to impose “baseball-style” binding arbitration during contract negotiations. This bill also would have eliminated the right to strike and diminished the role of the NMB in airline labor negotiations.

Does this sound familiar:

Harry Reid circa 2006: The war is over we lost.

Barrack Obama Summer 2008: The surge will never work.

Is my QOL better or worse because the ALPAPAC supported party controls congress. You can make your call, I'll make mine.

jungle
03-06-2010, 10:59 AM
If you're an ALPA member, value your career, and want an understanding of our industry, I highly recommend you read "Flying the Line, Part II". As an ex-military guy, I had the standard viewpoints.

However, after reading the book, verifying the facts, and personally experiencing a baknruptcy, while watching big biz engage in tactics aided & abeted by very conservative judges & politicians, I have come to a different view. Most pilots are cut from a similar cloth. Most military guys are raised in a culture where you take care of your people, as well as espouse other "traditional" values. You'll find that some of the same "conservatives" that publicly espouse the mantra, execute legislative action and direction that disenfranchises the average American and labor in particular.

You can read it, verify the facts, and judge for yourself the policies, and politicians that support Americans at large or big biz, and who claim to be ethical. If you're really interested you can pm me I and can send you a few primers. Do some reading on Frank Lorenzo, and notice who was in office that allowed his carnage on tens of thousands of American citizens. Check Andy Card while your at it. Notice who he worked for as he heped push thru de-regulation of our industry. Notice who was in office when Lorenzo was banned.

There are politicians on both side of the aisle that favor our industry. Unfortunately, there are more politicians on a certain side of the aisle that disfavor labor, that have & will again write, sponsor & vote policies that are negative to airline pilots & labor in general.

Aligning with them would be cutting your own throat, they have absolutely zero interest in you, your families' or your profession's well being, regardless of what they say in press conferences- look at their votes, appointees, policies and sponsorship.

I am always amazed at the number of otherwise intelligent people that fall for this point of view. Here is the real big picture:

"Union density (the percentage of workers belonging to unions) has been declining since the late 1940s, however. Almost 36% of American workers were represented by unions in 1945. Historically, the rapid growth of public employee unions since the 1960s has served to mask an even more dramatic decline in private-sector union membership.

At the apex of union density in the 1940s, only about 9.8% of public employees were represented by unions, while 33.9% of private, non-agricultural workers had such representation. In this decade, those proportions have essentially reversed, with 36% of public workers being represented by unions while private sector union density had plummeted to around 7%. Recently, workers have increasingly chosen union membership. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics most recent survey indicates that union membership in the US has risen to 12.4% of all workers, from 12.1% in 2007. Private sector union membership has rebounded as well, increasing from 7.5% in 2007 to 7.6% in 2008."


Unions have been crushed by both parties for the last seventy years, except in the public sector.
Politicos have shown exceptional skill at feathering their own nest and bankrupting the country and little else.
Both sides will lie to you and gladly take your money, but now you know the result over the long term.

In the end, you will understand that paying some greasy pimp in a suit for a favor just doesn't work out in the long run for anybody except the greasy pimp, and you might want to ask yourself why you are paying for something that rightfully belongs to you anyway. That would be equal treatment under the law.

pipe
03-06-2010, 12:04 PM
Does this sound familiar:

Harry Reid circa 2006: The war is over we lost.

Barrack Obama Summer 2008: The surge will never work.

Is my QOL better or worse because the ALPAPAC supported party controls congress. You can make your call, I'll make mine.

Is your QOL better because Saddam Hussein is Dead?

FDXLAG
03-06-2010, 12:12 PM
Is your QOL better because Saddam Hussein is Dead?


Yes it is better because Saddam and over 45000 other terrorists were killed over there instead of over here. I am not trying to make this a political discussision. Those of you who prioritize God/Family/Country/Job&Union Member in a different order than I, feel free. And let me feel free at least until ALPAPAC helps finish turning this country into France by contributing to "ProLabor" politicians.

Busboy
03-06-2010, 02:49 PM
Since when do the APC moderators allow Glenn and Sean to post their moronic political nonsense, without closing the thread?:confused:

FDXLAG
03-06-2010, 03:31 PM
Actually the political posts are the ones advocating contributions to a Political Action Commitee. But who am I to argue with Kieth.

olly
03-06-2010, 08:58 PM
I am always amazed at the number of otherwise intelligent people that fall for this point of view. Here is the real big picture:

"Union density (the percentage of workers belonging to unions) has been declining since the late 1940s, however. Almost 36% of American workers were represented by unions in 1945. Historically, the rapid growth of public employee unions since the 1960s has served to mask an even more dramatic decline in private-sector union membership.

At the apex of union density in the 1940s, only about 9.8% of public employees were represented by unions, while 33.9% of private, non-agricultural workers had such representation. In this decade, those proportions have essentially reversed, with 36% of public workers being represented by unions while private sector union density had plummeted to around 7%. Recently, workers have increasingly chosen union membership. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics most recent survey indicates that union membership in the US has risen to 12.4% of all workers, from 12.1% in 2007. Private sector union membership has rebounded as well, increasing from 7.5% in 2007 to 7.6% in 2008."


Unions have been crushed by both parties for the last seventy years, except in the public sector.
Politicos have shown exceptional skill at feathering their own nest and bankrupting the country and little else.
Both sides will lie to you and gladly take your money, but now you know the result over the long term.

In the end, you will understand that paying some greasy pimp in a suit for a favor just doesn't work out in the long run for anybody except the greasy pimp, and you might want to ask yourself why you are paying for something that rightfully belongs to you anyway. That would be equal treatment under the law.

Not really clear on what point of view intelligent people are falling for.

1) You are correct, on biz & union membership, but the crushng has come primarily from one side of the aisle.
As a whole, people in Technical fields tend to be historically illiterate. Just look at how Corporations treat their Engineers. They don't get any of the royalties on their inventions and are generally forced out on the street by age 45. Yet they aren't historically literate enough to understand what is being done to them and their fellow engineers to form a real Union. Same thing with "skilled programmers, and biz wanting more HB1 visas while we have loads of programmers on the street. Exacerbating the problem is a combination of legislation, non-enforcment and other tactics that would discourage unions.
2) The effect of government &politics on our industry.
Everything the airlines use to conduct their business is related to one level of
government or another, but primarily the federal government due to interstate commerce. As long as federal money is being pumped into the infrastructure of the business (Runways, Terminals, land, ATC, Regulatory oversight (FAA budget), GPS, ILS's, Approach light systems, VOR's, etc., etc.) the government will always have a finger in the pie.
Policy is driven by politics, political appointees at DoT, FAA, Labor, NMB etc, these folks have a Direct impact on how things "go"

3) Historically the R's (in general-not all) support big biz, and promulgate or ignore efforts for the average American worker.

4) Access matters- some quotes from Congressman Miller regarding access and constituent input on HR 2830, the Pension Protection legislation that was initially blocked by the R's, then ganered support, and eventually passed. "...we thought our support list should write thank you letters to Congressman Miller and Congressman Rangel for the supreme effort in attempting to save pensions. This comment was received by a chuckle, and the comment, “Jim, it should be the other way around.”
I was surprised at this response and asked what he meant by that and he said, “If it wasn’t for your group, the Miller-Rangel bill would have never got to the point it did.” I was shocked at this comment and he explained that if we had not bombarded the Congressman’s offices with the 100’s of phone calls and faxes, they never would have had the support to put this bill together. Congressman Miller’s committee office was flooded with calls from other Congressmen saying they were being deluged with phone calls and faxes and something had to be done."

Not saying these guys are saints, far from it if you read the news, but they supported legislation that had a positive affect on workers and airline workers in particular.

5) Equal treatment under the law sounds good, but unfortunaltely, the ugly truth is that is not how washington works. We can either be realists, and attempt to influence legislation/policy THAT AFFECTS OUR CAREERS/livlihoood (note I did not mention anything about taxes/war/etc), or get run over by those that have an interest in the outcome. There is no coincidence that corporations outspend unions more than 10:1. They want policy/legislation/enforcement(or not) that favors their business (profit) interests.

jungle
03-06-2010, 10:41 PM
Not really clear on what point of view intelligent people are falling for.

1) You are correct, on biz & union membership, but the crushng has come primarily from one side of the aisle.
As a whole, people in Technical fields tend to be historically illiterate. Just look at how Corporations treat their Engineers. They don't get any of the royalties on their inventions and are generally forced out on the street by age 45. Yet they aren't historically literate enough to understand what is being done to them and their fellow engineers to form a real Union. Same thing with "skilled programmers, and biz wanting more HB1 visas while we have loads of programmers on the street. Exacerbating the problem is a combination of legislation, non-enforcment and other tactics that would discourage unions.
2) The effect of government &politics on our industry.
Everything the airlines use to conduct their business is related to one level of
government or another, but primarily the federal government due to interstate commerce. As long as federal money is being pumped into the infrastructure of the business (Runways, Terminals, land, ATC, Regulatory oversight (FAA budget), GPS, ILS's, Approach light systems, VOR's, etc., etc.) the government will always have a finger in the pie.
Policy is driven by politics, political appointees at DoT, FAA, Labor, NMB etc, these folks have a Direct impact on how things "go"

3) Historically the R's (in general-not all) support big biz, and promulgate or ignore efforts for the average American worker.

4) Access matters- some quotes from Congressman Miller regarding access and constituent input on HR 2830, the Pension Protection legislation that was initially blocked by the R's, then ganered support, and eventually passed. "...we thought our support list should write thank you letters to Congressman Miller and Congressman Rangel for the supreme effort in attempting to save pensions. This comment was received by a chuckle, and the comment, “Jim, it should be the other way around.”
I was surprised at this response and asked what he meant by that and he said, “If it wasn’t for your group, the Miller-Rangel bill would have never got to the point it did.” I was shocked at this comment and he explained that if we had not bombarded the Congressman’s offices with the 100’s of phone calls and faxes, they never would have had the support to put this bill together. Congressman Miller’s committee office was flooded with calls from other Congressmen saying they were being deluged with phone calls and faxes and something had to be done."

Not saying these guys are saints, far from it if you read the news, but they supported legislation that had a positive affect on workers and airline workers in particular.

5) Equal treatment under the law sounds good, but unfortunaltely, the ugly truth is that is not how washington works. We can either be realists, and attempt to influence legislation/policy THAT AFFECTS OUR CAREERS/livlihoood (note I did not mention anything about taxes/war/etc), or get run over by those that have an interest in the outcome. There is no coincidence that corporations outspend unions more than 10:1. They want policy/legislation/enforcement(or not) that favors their business (profit) interests.


Try again, your message is garbled. But you can look at the real numbers or cherry pick data points to construct a fairey tale. I can show you the year over year numbers and if you can actually show a corellation I will kiss your...well I will call you a magician of mathematics.

Talk all you like, but the numbers show about an 80% crush rate for handing over money to greasy pimps in suits. You really can't talk those numbers away and you really can't talk about any successful negotiations with greasy pimps in suits. The pimps have been hugely successful at bankrupting the nation, why do you feel your little corner of the universe will be spared by paying tribute?

You have chosen to side with one party, but the truth is that both parties of greasy pimps in suits have handed you a failure after taking your money. Write, phone, whatever. Both sides have gutted you and are chewing on your liver. And now you want to talk?

DYNASTY HVY
03-07-2010, 04:02 AM
Try again, your message is garbled. But you can look at the real numbers or cherry pick data points to construct a fairey tale. I can show you the year over year numbers and if you can actually show a corellation I will kiss your...well I will call you a magician of mathematics.

Talk all you like, but the numbers show about an 80% crush rate for handing over money to greasy pimps in suits. You really can't talk those numbers away and you really can't talk about any successful negotiations with greasy pimps in suits. The pimps have been hugely successful at bankrupting the nation, why do you feel your little corner of the universe will be spared by paying tribute?

You have chosen to side with one party, but the truth is that both parties of greasy pimps in suits have handed you a failure after taking your money. Write, phone, whatever. Both sides have gutted you and are chewing on your liver. And now you want to talk?
Checkmate ! :)
Point goes to Jungle


Fred

Busboy
03-07-2010, 07:34 AM
Checkmate ! :)
Point goes to Jungle


Fred

Really? All the "decline in union membership diatribe" did was nauseate me. Didn't really make any point in the argument, other than to say that both parties are "greasy pimps". And that kind of talk, is always well recieved. :)

Deuce130
03-07-2010, 09:54 AM
I just did it as well. As for ALPAPAC and politics in general...it is true that certain politicians SEEM to be more favorable to labor. It's also true that politicians from both sides of the aisle have been ramming it to us (sts) for generations. Personally, the results of our current mediation are going to serve as a litmus test for just how much certain administrations value labor or if money still talks.

Busboy
03-07-2010, 11:54 AM
I just did it as well. As for ALPAPAC and politics in general...it is true that certain politicians SEEM to be more favorable to labor. It's also true that politicians from both sides of the aisle have been ramming it to us (sts) for generations. Personally, the results of our current mediation are going to serve as a litmus test for just how much certain administrations value labor or if money still talks.

What current mediation are you talking about? If you're referring to the 4A2b grievances...They're heard by an arbitrator who is not "appointed" by any administration.

You might be confusing him with the NMB?:confused:

Deuce130
03-07-2010, 12:09 PM
What current mediation are you talking about? If you're referring to the 4A2b grievances...They're heard by an arbitrator who is not "appointed" by any administration.

You might be confusing him with the NMB?:confused:

Yep, I'm incorrect. I meant to say arbitration, not mediation. I was also under the mistaken impression that the arbitrator was "appointed" to the System Board of Adjustment. My bad.

jungle
03-07-2010, 01:21 PM
Since when do the APC moderators allow Glenn and Sean to post their moronic political nonsense, without closing the thread?:confused:

Did you know insulting other forum members violates TOS?

Really? All the "decline in union membership diatribe" did was nauseate me. Didn't really make any point in the argument, other than to say that both parties are "greasy pimps". And that kind of talk, is always well recieved. :)

I must admit, my inbox was filled with hate mail from Pimps all over the world.
I offer a heartfelt apology for comparing them to politicians.:D


Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened.
Churchill

FDX1
03-08-2010, 04:02 AM
Does any of these sound like QOL issues?

Protecting Your Flying:
• ALPA stopped legislation that would have outsourced your flying to foreign airlines for delivering U.S. mail overseas.
• Through an all-out lobbying assault on Congress, ALPA blocked a 2006 DOT proposal that would have permitted foreign interests to control U.S. airlines.

Protecting Your Benefits:
• ALPA is lobbying for legislation that would allow pilots whose defined benefit plans had been terminated to receive, at age 60, the full PBGC benefit guarantee that is payable to others at 65.
• ALPA ensured that companies could not make unilateral changes to pilot contracts and benefits plans as a result of the increase in the retirement age to 65, saving your families millions of dollars.
• ALPA successfully supported extending unemployment benefits for furloughed airline workers following the economic downturn post-9/11.
• ALPA led a successful seven-year campaign to prohibit states from taxing former residents’ pension benefits—so-called “source taxation.”
• ALPA has stopped congressional attempts to tax your fringe benefits—including your airline pass privileges and employer-paid health care—countless times in the past 20 years.

Protecting You in the Workplace:
• ALPA persuaded Congress to require the TSA to move on expedited screening and crew access programs in the 9/11 Commission implementing bill, signed into law in August 2007.
• ALPA also led the effort to obtain legislation preventing the premature release of CVRs.
• ALPA killed many ill-conceived pilot-related proposals in Congress through the years, including:
o preventing the FAA from randomly reviewing CVRs and FDRs—a move intended to “improve cockpit discipline”;
o making pilot infractions of FARs subject to criminal penalties up to $25,000 and/or one year imprisonment;
o gutting the FAA/NASA Aviation Safety Reporting System.
• ALPA got Congress to remove the FAA from the Civil Penalties Program, giving pilots a fair process in pilot cases through the NTSB.
• ALPA has consistently fought legislative attempts to change the Railway Labor Act to favor management.
• ALPA blocked legislation by Senators McCain (R-AZ) and Lott (R-MS) to impose “baseball-style” binding arbitration during contract negotiations. This bill also would have eliminated the right to strike and diminished the role of the NMB in airline labor negotiations.

Why are you confusing FDXLAG with the facts...I enjoy his myopic view of the world! I guess you cant actually support the significant issues that affect our job if it smells Democratic. I guess God is a Republican!

FDXLAG
03-08-2010, 05:35 AM
I am not confused, Nancy is great for the teachers union, the government unions, the SEIU, Acorn, heck maybe even ALPA. Does not mean my over all quality of life is better with her hand on the throttle.

As far as God you would have to ask Him, let us know what He says. But for family country and union I know which two impact my quality of life over the other one. Sounds like you may have some confusion issues. But hey as I said in my 1st post you prioritize your decisions I will prioritize mine. I could care less what you decide, but just like your nanny state heros you insist I conform. Diversity, in all but thought, is our strength right?

As least ALPAPAC is no longer selling itself as the most bipartisan pro-labor PAC or whatever their previous claims used to be.

A little help with your definition please. Is it myopic if you agree with 90% and blow off the other 10% or if you agree with 10% and blow off the other 90%.

jungle
03-08-2010, 03:31 PM
I can only laugh. People used to carry a four leaf clover, a rabbits foot or some other amulet to bring them luck. Now it is paying their favorite congress critter for some magic spell. Unfortunately we have devolved over the decades to the sort of banana republic that demands payment for consideration.
When you get beyond the silly left/right argument and understand it isn't working, then we might all make a little progress. Don't feed the critters and flush the toilet after every term.:D


Most of us are old enough to stop believing in leprechauns and the easter bunny.

The Walrus
03-08-2010, 03:43 PM
Jungle Boogie, Jungle Boogie, etc

NoHaz
03-08-2010, 04:01 PM
http://timstvshowcase.com/gongsh2.jpg

somebody gong this thread

The Walrus
03-08-2010, 04:05 PM
Chuck Barris, is that really you?

DYNASTY HVY
03-08-2010, 04:19 PM
Chuck Barris, is that really you?
For a minute there I thought it was Bobby Vinton :)

FDX1
03-08-2010, 06:35 PM
I am not confused, Nancy is great for the teachers union, the government unions, the SEIU, Acorn, heck maybe even ALPA. Does not mean my over all quality of life is better with her hand on the throttle.

Not quite sure what the heck it is your talking about here but I'll give it a whirl.

How this turned into a God and Country or D. vs. R. diatribe, I'm not sure. FDXLAG I'm not telling you to do anything that would upset your sense of justice or whatever it is your going on about. I thought this was about sending a message to the Senators that are trying to force themselves into a debate with simplistic, pseudo fixes to appease the public about air safety.

I understand how the system works and how to get our message heard. Whether you like the way our political system works or not makes no difference to me. But the issue is important enough for me to help. I don't want to subvert the issue. LAG, Do you really think that this proposal to allow CVR conversations be used as an internal monitor to determine if disciplinary actions should be used against you is a good idea? I have an idea...lets go put a voice recorder in Sen DeMint's office and take a listen every once in a while.:eek:

Anyway, it's a stupid proposal and requires significant help to defeat it. By the overwhelming show of support on this forum they will be hearing from many rank and file pilots from across the U.S. that realize the significance of the issue.:)

jungle
03-08-2010, 06:55 PM
I have an idea...lets go put a voice recorder in Sen DeMint's office and take a listen every once in a while.:eek:

Anyway, it's a stupid proposal and requires significant help to defeat it. By the overwhelming show of support on this forum they will be hearing from many rank and file pilots from across the U.S. that realize the significance of the issue.:)

Good idea, and his home phone and cell too. And all of the other boys up there selling what they don't own. Random urine testing should also be required. The public safety demands it!:D

It is also apparent we need higher standards of background checks, employment verification, documentation-that sort of thing. It is for the children!

Not asking for anything special, just that we all be treated with equality.

Wildmanny
03-08-2010, 08:22 PM
..........

FDXLAG
03-08-2010, 09:19 PM
Not quite sure what the heck it is your talking about here but I'll give it a whirl.

How this turned into a God and Country or D. vs. R. diatribe, I'm not sure. FDXLAG I'm not telling you to do anything that would upset your sense of justice or whatever it is your going on about. I thought this was about sending a message to the Senators that are trying to force themselves into a debate with simplistic, pseudo fixes to appease the public about air safety.

I understand how the system works and how to get our message heard. Whether you like the way our political system works or not makes no difference to me. But the issue is important enough for me to help. I don't want to subvert the issue. LAG, Do you really think that this proposal to allow CVR conversations be used as an internal monitor to determine if disciplinary actions should be used against you is a good idea? I have an idea...lets go put a voice recorder in Sen DeMint's office and take a listen every once in a while.:eek:

Anyway, it's a stupid proposal and requires significant help to defeat it. By the overwhelming show of support on this forum they will be hearing from many rank and file pilots from across the U.S. that realize the significance of the issue.:)

I am not sure where you got the idea we disagree on CVR legislation. You really don't see how this got to be a D vs R discussion let me help:

ALPA PAC gives money to elected officials that agree with us on OUR (job) issues. Period, end of story. So, give to the ALPA PAC, then give to the NRA PAC, etc, etc.... If you like your job, give to the ALPA PAC. If you don't, then give money to Sen. DeMint and the anti-labor crowd. Pretty simple.

I wasn't the 1st to bring politics into this. I wasn't the 1st to defend not giving to the PAC. But if you can't see that some of us have priorities besides OUR (job) issues than I guess you wont be able to see what I am talking about.

Yes I think the CVR issue is important and I talked to my Senators. But 85 cents out of every ALPAPAC dollar goes to a democrat which helps promote the democrat agenda. To ignore that would be myopic (a narrow view of something). When ALPAPAC is ready to take the labor party on on taxes let me know I'll be with you.

Lifizgud
03-09-2010, 04:35 AM
Good idea, and his home phone and cell too. And all of the other boys up there selling what they don't own. Random urine testing should also be required. The public safety demands it!:D

It is also apparent we need higher standards of background checks, employment verification, documentation-that sort of thing. It is for the children!

Not asking for anything special, just that we all be treated with equality.

And maybe a Birth Certificate or two...?:D:D

iarapilot
03-09-2010, 09:33 AM
And maybe a Birth Certificate or two...?:D:D

One real one would do!

757upspilot
03-09-2010, 09:39 AM
A fairly good source has it that UPS already listens to the CVR for secret disapline . Never doubt the ability of your company to break the law, why because it costs them nothing if caught.

JethroFDX
03-09-2010, 09:53 AM
A fairly good source has it that UPS already listens to the CVR for secret disapline . Never doubt the ability of your company to break the law, why because it costs them nothing if caught.

Disgusting and very unprofessional.

Grumble
03-09-2010, 11:25 AM
Not a 121 guy, still submitted my disgust at this legislation to my congressional reps on your behalf. I whole heartedly disagree with this.

757upspilot
03-09-2010, 05:05 PM
When I read all the comments on here that are negative regarding ALPA and the ALPA-PAC, there is one recurring theme that comes to mind: The background of the poster.

How many of the people who are negative about ALPA or ALPA-PAC have actually worked at a non-union carrier?

I have. I've seen management run rough-shod over pilots, firing them when they refused to fly un-airworthy airplanes, or refused to fly an airplane that was clearly overloaded, or refused to accept a duty assignment that was clearly against the FAR's.

I think that there are several grown adults who are pilots at Fedex who are immature babies and don't realize how good they have it. And they don't realize that they can park their [insert name of expensive car here] in their garage only, and I do mean ONLY because of the efforts and solidarity of thousands of other pilots who built this union in the previous 50 years or so, and who do spend the dues money each month to support this union. The only thing that keeps our standard of life the way it is is ALPA. It ain't perfect, but neither is the gun I own. It hurts my hand, it kicks like a mule, it is ugly, and it needs to be cleaned all the time.

-But if I get ATTACKED....guess what? At least I've got a fighting chance!


[Only liberal losers or criminals are against "gun" ownership, afterall-]
I tend to agree. I have been at the non union carrier that you discribe. If you don't like the way your union is run get involved. Any union is better than no union if you are a pilot.

FDXLAG
03-09-2010, 05:14 PM
You forgot to add if you don't like it you can quit. I drive a 2000 ford ranger does that count. ALPA and ALPA-PAC are seperate entities. Neither are above criticism nor are they above defense by moronic strawman builders (not that I am implying you are moronic).

Busboy
03-09-2010, 06:11 PM
After reading some of the posts on here...I've come to the conclusion that drug testing of pilots actually is a good idea.:eek:

757upspilot
03-09-2010, 08:17 PM
Disgusting and very unprofessional.
Statement defines many in our management

USMCFLYR
03-09-2010, 08:39 PM
A little off topic - but along the same lines at the same time. I saw a news story about a new camera and sound system that police in Cincinnatti are utilizing. It is a video camera worn around the ear that films everything the police officer does and is used for review. The cops are also mic'ed up so everything said is recorded too. I know in many cases that the dashboard cams and video cameras in the police station have helped refute more police brutality claims they have proven (a fact often not given any attention), but I just thought that this showed that the pilot communtiy wasn't the only profession that is going down the road of constant monitoring.
Good luck fighting this guys.

USMCFLYR

FDX28
03-09-2010, 09:17 PM
The difference between the cop's system and the proposed system is that ours would be remotely monitored at all times. Police are mic'd up but unless there's an issue, no one ever hears the tapes - like our CVR's. The Sgt's or Lt's on the police force can't access the tapes at random times from their desk at HQ.

USMCFLYR
03-09-2010, 09:37 PM
I thought this issue gave them access to randomly select CVRs to listen too and the FDR data can already be looked at, but the identities are hidden correct?
As for the cop's system. It didn't say how they would be monitored, but with the few friends and family members that I have in law enforcement - thier actions seem to garner more attention than most pilot's. hardly a week goes by without someone complaining about a cop's actions it seems.
The point of my post was not who had it harder FDX - it was the point that there seems to be a lot of monitoring in these times to come. It just may be the wave of the future. Who knows what is next.

USMCFLYR

757upspilot
03-10-2010, 05:37 AM
I thought this issue gave them access to randomly select CVRs to listen too and the FDR data can already be looked at, but the identities are hidden correct?
As for the cop's system. It didn't say how they would be monitored, but with the few friends and family members that I have in law enforcement - thier actions seem to garner more attention than most pilot's. hardly a week goes by without someone complaining about a cop's actions it seems.
The point of my post was not who had it harder FDX - it was the point that there seems to be a lot of monitoring in these times to come. It just may be the wave of the future. Who knows what is next.

USMCFLYR

You are correct that big brother does appear to be the wave of the future and that is what we are fighting against.

jungle
03-11-2010, 04:48 PM
After reading some of the posts on here...I've come to the conclusion that drug testing of pilots actually is a good idea.:eek:

And I have come to the conclusion that some of us like getting bent over on a daily basis.:D

onetime
03-18-2010, 06:18 AM
This is reallly a bad idea, but unlike our approach to age 65, maybe we should get out in front of this one and shape it in a way that works for us rather than against us. Assuming it's inevitable as some have said.