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View Full Version : FDX-Can you believe this?


MajorKong
03-06-2010, 03:13 PM
Check out Pilotswap.net. Airbus Cpt seniority #13 wants someone to bump him for a RNO 12+ hr trip because his wife is having a stomach procedure. YGTBSM!

I have a few suggestions for you Einstein:

1. Ask to trade the trip for a trip some other time.
2. Drop the trip and make it up later. (I guess you can't afford it because you are living paycheck to paycheck with 30yrs at the company).
3. Call in sick. (Then I guess you would not get the max B plan contribution for you sick leave).
4. Nice try. I guess you are trying to get some school house guy to feel sorry for you. If you pull it off, you are brilliant.


Deuce130
03-06-2010, 03:45 PM
I agree with you 100%. Ridiculous.

skypine27
03-06-2010, 07:13 PM
To quote Matt Dillon....

YouTube - I work with retards (There's Something About Mary) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEBn-uLTzYA)

"I work with ...."


Gunter
03-07-2010, 03:57 AM
I've got a couple of sweet trips if anyone wants to bump me...

bleedairpacks
03-07-2010, 05:33 AM
I hope Airbus #13 reads this website. What a jerk.

pipe
03-07-2010, 06:06 AM
I hope Airbus #13 reads this website. What a jerk.

You can leave a comment on the site. Someone should refer him to this thread for "information on his bump request".

PIPE

727cap
03-07-2010, 06:12 AM
Did anyone ask to see if it is a serious operation, just because you are senior dosent mean you cant ask for a little help, (I am in the 40-45 % area), lets support each other just alittle bit.

AerisArmis
03-07-2010, 06:21 AM
Did anyone ask to see if it is a serious operation, just because you are senior dosent mean you cant ask for a little help, (I am in the 40-45 % area), lets support each other just alittle bit.

Dude, this is a very senior guy who wants to get paid while someone else does his work for free. And..it's a 12 CH trip, not his whole month. His options are endless. Heck, he could call in sick and make it up later and mngmnt would be behind him. This is like Bill Gates standing on the street corner asking for spare change.

ptarmigan
03-07-2010, 07:12 AM
Don't know what the trip is, but if it has a DH, putting it up "for sale" could be very mutually beneficial to a commuter that would rather get a ticket and not have to worry about getting to work. Same for someone that might need to get somewhere for some reason, or lives there. Doesn't hurt to ask before just dropping it, what's the harm? We spend more time bashing each other than trying to work together. Again, why create a problem when there is none? Is anybody really surprised when we continue our infighting right into contract negotiations?

MeXC
03-07-2010, 07:32 AM
>>Is anybody really surprised when we continue our infighting right into contract negotiations?<<

Or to put it another way, is anybody really surprised when we continue to behave in ways that cause infighting right into contract negotiations?
I have no idea of the specifics of this gentleman and his situation so I don't include this as part of the behavior. DP flying, draft flying, FDA LOA, ALPA/Company side letters without informing those affected, etc, etc are behaviors that cause the infighting.
I tire of those urging unity and cohesion during negotiations and whatever blows your skirt up the rest of the time.

A7AV8OR
03-07-2010, 07:35 AM
Don't know what the trip is, but if it has a DH, putting it up "for sale" could be very mutually beneficial to a commuter that would rather get a ticket and not have to worry about getting to work. Same for someone that might need to get somewhere for some reason, or lives there. Doesn't hurt to ask before just dropping it, what's the harm? We spend more time bashing each other than trying to work together. Again, why create a problem when there is none? Is anybody really surprised when we continue our infighting right into contract negotiations?

Couldn't agree more, Ptar.

Jetjok
03-07-2010, 07:41 AM
The trip is an AM launch, one leg to Reno with a 36 hour layover followed by a one leg return, departing RNO at about 6PM to Mempho. Nothing really great and nothing terrible.

Personally, I'd not attempt to get rid of a trip that way, especially since the guy is soooooo senior (because he certainly must have other options like sick bank, etc), but there's certainly no harm in asking. Would it be more appropriate if the guy were junior? Seems to me that, assuming he's telling the truth, all he's doing is explaining why he would like to be bumped, and regardless of his seniority, he's certainly entitled to do that. If you don't want to bump him, don't, but let's not make a big thing of someone asking a simple question.

It seems that everyone who is senior is fair game, for almost any little thing. That's really too bad.

JJ

HankHill
03-07-2010, 08:07 AM
I have 6 days of RB if anyone wants to PDO bump me. It is an awesome trip with no deadheads. Please help out because my dog needs to de-wormed.

pipe
03-07-2010, 08:46 AM
The trip is an AM launch, one leg to Reno with a 36 hour layover followed by a one leg return, departing RNO at about 6PM to Mempho. Nothing really great and nothing terrible.

Personally, I'd not attempt to get rid of a trip that way, especially since the guy is soooooo senior (because he certainly must have other options like sick bank, etc), but there's certainly no harm in asking. Would it be more appropriate if the guy were junior? Seems to me that, assuming he's telling the truth, all he's doing is explaining why he would like to be bumped, and regardless of his seniority, he's certainly entitled to do that. If you don't want to bump him, don't, but let's not make a big thing of someone asking a simple question.

It seems that everyone who is senior is fair game, for almost any little thing. That's really too bad.

JJ

Here's the thing. I think it's pretty safe to assume that 99% of all trips in everyone's line are available for PDO bump. I'll bet that dude would've let you take that trip with or without the "stomach procedure".

PIPE

Skimmology
03-07-2010, 08:51 AM
Anytime anyone wants to work for free and have me stay at home and get paid, PDO me!!! All mine are for PDO.

ptarmigan
03-07-2010, 09:05 AM
Here's the thing. I think it's pretty safe to assume that 99% of all trips in everyone's line are available for PDO bump. I'll bet that dude would've let you take that trip with or without the "stomach procedure".

PIPE

And your point is? In this case, he had a need to be off the trip. Why attack someone for this? We have a group that likes to find scapegoats within our pilot group for our own problems. We never look in the mirror and see how we, personally, could fix things. It's always someone else's fault. Let's find fault with someone for just asking a question. Let's attack our union leadership, even though we've never served ourselves. Wouldn't want to break the facade that those in those roles are ogres, would we? Best to just attack those senior to us or who are taking their personal time to try to improve things (and that is the motive of most who take all those jobs, regardless of what some might like to believe).

So, we create this constant state of fear and divide. We do this to OURSELVES! Then we whine when we can't find unity during negotiations. You can't just "turn it on" at our convenience. We need to walk the walk, talk the talk, all the time.

It would begin by just backing each other up. You can't really expect someone to turn down a good deal for themselves if they are not in an environment where everything you do is in mutual support of each other. Start with the positive side and then there will be credibility when you want to enforce things like not flying disputed pairings, picking up dft, etc. We are trying to put the cart before the horse. You can't get support if you don't give it first. We do a terrible job of "giving". we just want to "take", or "demand". This is like a courtship. How would these tactics work if you were courting someone? How long would he/she stick around? Seriously. You want support, you need to give it first.

Sorry for the rant, just tired of watching us shoot ourselves in the foot.

Dakota
03-07-2010, 09:12 AM
Some of you dudes need to lighten up! If you have a problem with him asking for help -- don't help. Can he use sick if he's not sick? I'm sure if he really needs to get rid of the trip all he needs to do is talk to his CP and the trip will go away. At least he cares enough about his wife that he realizes he shouldn't be going to work, why not help out a bro if you can -- does it matter if he's 13 or 500? If you have a problem with what he's requesting - don't bump him, but why do we $hit upon fellow aviators? Sometimes helping out someone in need is worth much more than $$. As an individual who's just burned up 9 years of sick, my perspective may be a little different.

golfandfly
03-07-2010, 10:55 AM
The pilotswap site is about as useless as it gets. Seems everyone has a trip "available" for PDO. I think most of us have 100% of our trips available.

While I guess it doesn't hurt to ask, why not just call in sick or drop the trip? If crew scheds won't drop it, a call to the ACP will do the trick. I seem to remember something saying you could call in sick if a family member is ill. Not too sure, but dropping the trip is surely an option. You can make it up later if you need the money.

He's worked here 30 years and needs a bump? Come on.... This isn't a pick on the old guy deal here, but this is ridiculous...

Huck
03-07-2010, 12:17 PM
I seem to remember something saying you could call in sick if a family member is ill.

I called in sick when my wife was in labor with my youngest child.

As I was in the car, driving to meet her at the hospital, I got a call on my cell phone from my ACP (who has since been sent back to the line).

He told me I should not have called in sick - that I should have called him instead and asked for emergency leave. In other words, not get paid for the trip.

I told him to call scheduling, then, and put me back on the trip. He backed off and told me just to leave things the way they were, but remember for next time.

That baby girl is two now, and I'm still mad about it. We crashed a plane here (partly) because a captain's dog was dying and his head wasn't in the game. Given our record I just cannot understand this kind of corporate policy.

tennesseeflyboy
03-07-2010, 12:45 PM
Huck, I agree with you 100% but don't dig up the old stuff, OK ? Corporate policy here SUCKS and we all know it ...................... The guy crashing the plane has nothing, repeat, nothing to do with your situation of past.

FDX28
03-07-2010, 12:48 PM
Just call fatigued - You'll certainly be fatigued if you miss a birth of a child or you're worried about a loved one.

I think the SCP said something like he has no problem if your family member is sick and you call in sick to care for them.

pipe
03-07-2010, 01:13 PM
And your point is? In this case, he had a need to be off the trip. Why attack someone for this? We have a group that likes to find scapegoats within our pilot group for our own problems. We never look in the mirror and see how we, personally, could fix things. It's always someone else's fault. Let's find fault with someone for just asking a question. Let's attack our union leadership, even though we've never served ourselves. Wouldn't want to break the facade that those in those roles are ogres, would we? Best to just attack those senior to us or who are taking their personal time to try to improve things (and that is the motive of most who take all those jobs, regardless of what some might like to believe).

So, we create this constant state of fear and divide. We do this to OURSELVES! Then we whine when we can't find unity during negotiations. You can't just "turn it on" at our convenience. We need to walk the walk, talk the talk, all the time.

It would begin by just backing each other up. You can't really expect someone to turn down a good deal for themselves if they are not in an environment where everything you do is in mutual support of each other. Start with the positive side and then there will be credibility when you want to enforce things like not flying disputed pairings, picking up dft, etc. We are trying to put the cart before the horse. You can't get support if you don't give it first. We do a terrible job of "giving". we just want to "take", or "demand". This is like a courtship. How would these tactics work if you were courting someone? How long would he/she stick around? Seriously. You want support, you need to give it first.

Sorry for the rant, just tired of watching us shoot ourselves in the foot.

In case you hadn't noticed we're in 4a2b.

We have excellent sick leave policies that we all gave something to get and/or retain in negotiations.

Based on his age/seniority I would imagine that he would be the primary caretaker of the sick wife and qualify under FMLA to use sick or vacation, or something.

Given all of these facts it irritates the crap out of me that you would ask someone to fly for free. Put the freaking trip into open time and let the company figure out the manning. They're the ones with too many pilots and not enough flying -- right?

PIPE

Don't get me wrong, I realize that dropping below 10k on a paycheck is unendurable hardship - I do it every 1st and 15th.

Busboy
03-07-2010, 01:27 PM
I fail to see what age and/or seniority has to do with this...:confused:

pipe
03-07-2010, 01:54 PM
I fail to see what age and/or seniority has to do with this...:confused:

Because under FMLA if he's the only responsible adult in his household, other than his wife, he would qualify for time off as the primary caregiver. Chances are, with 30 years at the company, that is the case.

It's not an age attack, it's a determination of the probable facts regarding qualification to exercise FMLA benefits.

PIPE

JethroFDX
03-07-2010, 02:16 PM
From the FAR/AIM.

IM SAFE

+ Illness – are you sick?
+ Medication – are you taking a medication that affects you physically?
+ Stress - are you stressed out?
+ Alcohol - is alcohol a factor?
+ Fatigue – how tired are you?
+ Emotion – is there something upsetting in your life right now?

MaydayMark
03-07-2010, 02:16 PM
: fmla airline pilots : FMLA Law Blog (http://fmla.foxrothschild.com/tags/fmla-airline-pilots/)

http://www.dcemploymentlawupdate.com/2009/07/articles/workfamily-balance/bill-would-change-fmla-hours-of-service-requirements-for-airline-employees/

av8rmike
03-07-2010, 04:15 PM
Instructors need to PDO bump (not as much now since the last contract, though!). There's no harm in someone putting the trip out there. If it fits my days off and I can help a bubba out, so much the better. Don't see the problem here.

pipe
03-07-2010, 04:45 PM
: fmla airline pilots : FMLA Law Blog (http://fmla.foxrothschild.com/tags/fmla-airline-pilots/)

Bill Would Change FMLA Hours of Service Requirements for Airline Employees : Washington D.C. Employment Law Update (http://www.dcemploymentlawupdate.com/2009/07/articles/workfamily-balance/bill-would-change-fmla-hours-of-service-requirements-for-airline-employees/)


Point taken. My previous airline (which used to have a very humane management team) honored FMLA. I didn't realize that we were still technically excluded. Isn't it amazing that there was airline management that elected not to use a loophole?

PIPE

Laughing_Jakal
03-07-2010, 05:31 PM
I am thinking about putting the following ad on pilotswap reading:

My entire flight sequence for the remainder of 2010 is available for PDO bump. I need to get my plants neutered and I also need to attend the opening of my garage door.

pipe
03-07-2010, 07:24 PM
I am thinking about putting the following ad on pilotswap reading:

My entire flight sequence for the remainder of 2010 is available for PDO bump. I need to get my plants neutered and I also need to attend the opening of my garage door.


If I were in the training dept. and had to bump anyway, I'd bump your trip just as payment for the humor.

PIPE

AFW_MD11
03-08-2010, 06:11 AM
Instructors need to PDO bump (not as much now since the last contract, though!). There's no harm in someone putting the trip out there. If it fits my days off and I can help a bubba out, so much the better. Don't see the problem here.

Anyone who does NOT want to be bumped from ANY trip - please reply here.....

Mike,

there is no "problem" here....per se....and you're right, there's "no harm" in putting a trip out there.

the point I believe everyone is trying to make here is that who would NOT want to be PDO bumped off ANY trip? (except for the handful of freaks who don't want to lose the per diem)

thus (the point again) advertising a trip as "available for bump" is somewhat redundant/borderline ridiculous.

I'm picturing a bunch of school children on the playground raising their hands and saying "oooo....ooooo.....pick me......pick me....."

this is essentially what the people who actually advertise that their particular trip is "available for bump....if you can help me, please call....." are reducing themselves to.

and the instructor who "has to bump for landings" is the kid picking his team......"uhhhhh.....ok......YOU'RE worthy......you're not.....ummm....ok, the guy with the wife having surgery.....you're in......guy with son's kindergarten graduation.....sorry....", etc.

I agree with Jackal......I'm gonna post all my trips available for bump citing valid reasons for "needing" to be bumped.

I encourage EVERYONE else to do the same - at least it might generate some interest/exposure on that other web site so that it might actually start becoming a much more useful tool for LEGITIMATE trades and swaps, etc.

otherwise....it's just a little on the silly side - in my opinion.

pipe
03-08-2010, 07:13 AM
Emergency drop
A pilot shall have the ability to submit to drop a trip(s) or R-day(s) due to personal emergency.
An emergency drop shall be submitted to a pilot's assistant chief pilot, or his designee. The assistant chief pilot, or his designee, shall approve or deny the submission after consultation with CRS.
A pilot who drops an activity due to personal emergency shall be eligible for make-up.
A pilot may use his vacation in lieu of drop for personal emergencies.



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