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DLax85
03-16-2010, 05:14 AM
Any new insights from "O" during his hub turn mtg last night?

Hopefully some clarity on the anticipated "secondary vacancies" generated by the upcoming excess bids.:confused:

Thanks for sharing.:)


Gunter
03-16-2010, 06:18 AM
Don't start a thread like it's info just to ask for said info.

Everyone that clicks this today will come away with the same frustration.

DaRaiders
03-16-2010, 06:25 AM
Don't start a thread like it's info just to ask for said info.

Everyone that clicks this today will come away with the same frustration.

Whatever...........


Blackbeard
03-16-2010, 07:34 AM
By definition there can be no secondaries on an excess bid. Right? :confused:

DaRaiders
03-16-2010, 07:39 AM
By definition there can be no secondaries on an excess bid. Right? :confused:

From his most recent communication, our SCP seems to think so.

DaRaiders
03-16-2010, 08:40 AM
So.............did anybody go to the meeting?

Daniel Larusso
03-16-2010, 10:36 AM
By definition there can be no secondaries on an excess bid. Right? :confused:

No. It was technically a poor choice of words by O, but I think most of us know what he was saying and I can see why he said it the way he did. The 'proper' thing for him to have said would have been, 'Expect excesses in the 727 and Airbus which might result in pilots being assigned to permanent crew positions in the 757 and 777.' Personally I think that wording would have set a bunch of people off who would think that 'permanent crew position' and 'permanent vacancy award' are the same thing. As far as I can see, if they wanted to, the company could have done something similar in bid 09-02 negating the need for 09-03. I fail to see a cba violation with O's words or what they're planning, so why are so many people enamored by another case of him fumbling words?

Busboy
03-16-2010, 10:48 AM
"Expect excesses in the 727 and Airbus which might result in secondary awards in the 757 and 777."

Hey...Maybe, by "secondary awards", he meant there would be so many guys in the 757 and 777 that it would result in more "secondary lines" awarded in those aircraft?:rolleyes:

Overnitefr8
03-16-2010, 11:32 AM
I got there a little late, and obviously this was the first thing he talked about, but this is the jest that I got. Airline schedules hasn't given flight ops the numbers yet for next fiscal year. So he doesn't know exactly what will be the best solution for the upcoming bid. However, we are overmanned in the 727 and Airbus, manned about right in the -11 and short in the 777 and 757. Expect a reduction in the 72 and Airbus. Whether it is a true excess bid or just not filling secondaries in those seats he wasn't sure.

Overnitefr8
03-16-2010, 11:39 AM
MD 11/10 domicile in Asia. It's his feeling that having a domicile there would save money but would also save reliability. I don't fly over there but he said when a crew goes down over there it disrupts the schedule of everyone over there. He would prefer to have the US based -11's fly in and out of Asia and the crews primarily doing the long haul flying. Then have Asia based crews doing the intra-Asia flying. At least a year out before this can happen.

With the increase of 777 flying, ANC will naturally draw down some but there will always need to be a presence there.

Still looking for a European domicile. Paris is obvious choice but troubles with French continue. Zurich and Cologne are other choices. Someone asked about Prague and he said "you said that, not me".

DaRaiders
03-16-2010, 01:53 PM
MD 11/10 domicile in Asia. It's his feeling that having a domicile there would save money but would also save reliability. I don't fly over there but he said when a crew goes down over there it disrupts the schedule of everyone over there. He would prefer to have the US based -11's fly in and out of Asia and the crews primarily doing the long haul flying. Then have Asia based crews doing the intra-Asia flying. At least a year out before this can happen.

With the increase of 777 flying, ANC will naturally draw down some but there will always need to be a presence there.

Still looking for a European domicile. Paris is obvious choice but troubles with French continue. Zurich and Cologne are other choices. Someone asked about Prague and he said "you said that, not me".

Did he say if 10s would replace the Bus over there? In other words; an all 11/10 base? Thanks.

Skimmology
03-16-2010, 05:56 PM
How long does a MD 11 bid for HKG need to be open?

DLax85
03-16-2010, 07:10 PM
Don't start a thread like it's info just to ask for said info.

Everyone that clicks this today will come away with the same frustration.

Should I even respond to this reply?

Nah, that would just be asking a question in public.;)


...and please ignore any subsequent, value-added posts on O's hub-turn meeting that this thread may have generated.:)

Gunter
03-16-2010, 08:39 PM
So you don't even want to try and improve your subject lines? Too bad. False advertising to generate page views wastes everyone's time. Are you part of the solution or part of the problem?


Oh yeah, lots of great info so far. It's turned into a repository for unanswered questions.

Jumbo Pilot
03-16-2010, 08:58 PM
I thought the leading question mark in the thread title was pretty self-explanatory.

Daniel Larusso
03-16-2010, 09:29 PM
Rough day G?

FLMD11CAPT
03-16-2010, 10:16 PM
So you don't even want to try and improve your subject lines? Too bad. False advertising to generate page views wastes everyone's time. Are you part of the solution or part of the problem?


Oh yeah, lots of great info so far. It's turned into a repository for unanswered questions.

Prime example of why some refer to this site as <the same> "Twelve Angry Men"......:cool:;)

frozenboxhauler
03-17-2010, 12:41 AM
How long does a MD 11 bid for HKG need to be open?


Skim, since it's a FDA, I believe it's 45 days,...could be smokin' dope on this one though.
Cheers,
fbh

MeXC
03-17-2010, 04:45 AM
>>could be smokin' dope on this one though.<<

or hoisting a few Tigers at the Barge...those were some fun days.

DaRaiders
03-17-2010, 06:30 AM
So you don't even want to try and improve your subject lines? Too bad. False advertising to generate page views wastes everyone's time. Are you part of the solution or part of the problem?


Oh yeah, lots of great info so far. It's turned into a repository for unanswered questions.

So you're busting his chops because he didn't phrase his subject line in the form of a question? Gunter= Alex Trebek?

Oh, FWIW I thought Overnitefr8's post helped clarify what "O" meant by secondaries wrt excess bids. Good info.

AFW_MD11
03-17-2010, 08:13 AM
I got there a little late, and obviously this was the first thing he talked about, but this is the jest that I got. Airline schedules hasn't given flight ops the numbers yet for next fiscal year. So he doesn't know exactly what will be the best solution for the upcoming bid. However, we are overmanned in the 727 and Airbus, manned about right in the -11 and short in the 777 and 757. Expect a reduction in the 72 and Airbus. Whether it is a true excess bid or just not filling secondaries in those seats he wasn't sure.



Oh, FWIW I thought Overnitefr8's post helped clarify what "O" meant by secondaries wrt excess bids. Good info.

It would be nice if the System friggin' Chief Pilot 1) had, at least, a slight clue about what's going on around here, and 2) had the ability to CLEARLY communicate what he doesn't have a clue about to the pilot force in the form of written communication.

I'm just sayin'.....it would be nice

that way, we wouldn't have to get one here and try to collectively figure it out - even after he has made another public appearance to "clear up" what he meant in his latest "O" (for the love of God....here we go again) - Gram

wouldn't that be nice?

The Walrus
03-17-2010, 08:16 AM
It would be nice if the System friggin' Chief Pilot 1) had, at least, a slight clue about what's going on around here, and 2) had the ability to CLEARLY communicate what he doesn't have a clue about to the pilot force in the form of written communication.

I'm just sayin'.....it would be nice

that way, we wouldn't have to get one here and try to collectively figure it out - even after he has made another public appearance to "clear up" what he meant in his latest "O" (for the love of God....here we go again) - Gram

wouldn't that be nice?

Come on AFW, quit being so wishy washy and tell us what you really think.:eek:

Skimmology
03-17-2010, 08:43 AM
Skim, since it's a FDA, I believe it's 45 days,...could be smokin' dope on this one though.
Cheers,
fbh

FBH,
Thanks. I have asked around and get a bunch of I don't knows. I mean it is a new domicile for the MD. And I think the LOA covers Buses and not MD's, so there also lies another question/opportunity ALPA could capitalize on.

Just got in this morning. Nice day here so far.

Skim:D

AFW_MD11
03-17-2010, 09:00 AM
FBH,
Thanks. I have asked around and get a bunch of I don't knows. I mean it is a new domicile for the MD. And I think the LOA covers Buses and not MD's, so there also lies another question/opportunity ALPA could capitalize on.

Just got in this morning. Nice day here so far.

Skim:D

The CBA 24.B.1.c.

c. Each posting shall be published and remain available for
bidding for the following minimum time periods:
i. 14 days for permanent vacancies or excesses at an
existing non-FDA domicile;
ii. 28 days for permanent vacancies or excesses at an
FDA base;
iii. 45 days for the initial posting of permanent vacancies
establishing a new domicile (including FDA domicile);
iv. 10 days for temporary vacancies.


The MD in HKG would fall under iii - initial posting establishing new domicile = 45 days

The LOA covers HKG and CDG - and is generic to ANY aircraft type based in those locations - so I wouldn't look for any enhancements offered in order for the company to open an MD11 Domicile in HKG.

The only way they're going to be required to re-negotiate the LOA is if they bail on CDG in Europe and use Zurich, Koln, or Prague? - or something OTHER than CDG.

Daniel Larusso
03-17-2010, 10:36 AM
Prime example of why some refer to this site as <the same> "Twelve Angry Men"......:cool:;)

"....The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children...."

MeXC
03-17-2010, 11:05 AM
Samuel L. Jackson...Pulp Fiction

Daniel Larusso
03-17-2010, 11:46 AM
Samuel L. Jackson...Pulp Fiction

Yes, I would have just used a you-tube clip, but I didn't want to risk upsetting the moderators' IBS.

JethroFDX
03-17-2010, 12:07 PM
Yes, I would have just used a you-tube clip, but I didn't want to risk upsetting the moderators' IBS.

Doesn't take much to do that! :D

hamfisted
03-17-2010, 12:42 PM
Listen...if the title for your thread doesn't tell me who is gonna be in the Final Four.......please keep it to yourself!! I mean really......I have important stuff to do like make my 2136th post on this worthless website!!!!!!:cool::rolleyes:

Logs
03-17-2010, 01:17 PM
I would assume O meant to say that secondaries would possibly be filled on the vacancy bid for the B777 and B757, since those seats are, according to him, short. I am speculating that he mentioned secondaries since none have been filled on any of the last few vacancy bids.

The excess bid would be in concert with, or separate from, the vacancy bid.

But don't take my word for since I often the dimmest bulb in the box.

DaRaiders
03-17-2010, 02:34 PM
It would be nice if the System friggin' Chief Pilot 1) had, at least, a slight clue about what's going on around here, and 2) had the ability to CLEARLY communicate what he doesn't have a clue about to the pilot force in the form of written communication.

I'm just sayin'.....it would be nice

that way, we wouldn't have to get one here and try to collectively figure it out - even after he has made another public appearance to "clear up" what he meant in his latest "O" (for the love of God....here we go again) - Gram

wouldn't that be nice?

Uh, I think you're missing my point.

AFW_MD11
03-17-2010, 03:06 PM
Uh, I think you're missing my point.

sorry. I probably am. which point was I missing?

I was mainly lamenting our SCP's lack of comm skills and/or lack of knowledge of what is actually going on.

FLMD11CAPT
03-17-2010, 03:41 PM
Samuel L. Jackson...Pulp Fiction

C'mon fellas........SLJ just stole that line.......if your going to state the source, go all the way.....Ezekiel 25:17.............FWIW:rolleyes:

Adlerdriver
03-17-2010, 04:22 PM
C'mon fellas........SLJ just stole that line.......if your going to state the source, go all the way.....Ezekiel 25:17.............FWIW:rolleyes:

Actually,
He would be better off crediting SLJ with the quote. The only thing Jackson even got close was the last line "Then they will know that I am the LORD, when I take vengeance on them."

Maybe Sam "ad-libbed", it just falls under the poetic license thing, or that's the bible in Tarantino's world because the rest isn't even close to EZ 25:17 in any bible I've read...........FWIW:rolleyes:

Daniel Larusso
03-17-2010, 04:35 PM
C'mon fellas........SLJ just stole that line.......if your going to state the source, go all the way.....Ezekiel 25:17.............FWIW:rolleyes:

You'll notice that I trimmed the 'Ezekiel 25:17' and the last line. Knowing the audience at our company, I figured that would limit the extraneous comments about something that wasn't meant to be that deep...alas:)

Daniel Larusso
03-17-2010, 04:39 PM
It would be nice if the System friggin' Chief Pilot 1) had, at least, a slight clue about what's going on around here, and 2) had the ability to CLEARLY communicate what he doesn't have a clue about to the pilot force in the form of written communication.

I don't know, I don't think I'm that smart and I think what's going on is pretty clear. Flight ops management never has been in control when it comes to bids, block hours, etc. Some of our former 'leaders' were better at making it appear like they were in charge of that stuff, but they were just as out of the loop. People around here act like all of the stuff the previous regime(s) said was accurate or came true. Their track record in that regard looks the same to me, ssdd. As far as what could be going on with future bids, it looks like you've already found section 24 of the contract, reading down a touch further in that section and I think it's pretty clear what they are considering.

Not really a ton to speculate on with this stuff, it pretty much is what it is. All that I really see from Overnite's report is that the company wants to lighten the staffing in the 727 front seats, but they don't look too interested in training many or any new bodies into those seats. That is likely another decision that will be decided above O and PC's heads by the beanies.

AFW_MD11
03-17-2010, 05:27 PM
I don't know, I don't think I'm that smart and I think what's going on is pretty clear. Flight ops management never has been in control when it comes to bids, block hours, etc. Some of our former 'leaders' were better at making it appear like they were in charge of that stuff, but they were just as out of the loop. People around here act like all of the stuff the previous regime(s) said was accurate or came true. Their track record in that regard looks the same to me, ssdd. As far as what could be going on with future bids, it looks like you've already found section 24 of the contract, reading down a touch further in that section and I think it's pretty clear what they are considering.

Not really a ton to speculate on with this stuff, it pretty much is what it is. All that I really see from Overnite's report is that the company wants to lighten the staffing in the 727 front seats, but they don't look too interested in training many or any new bodies into those seats. That is likely another decision that will be decided above O and PC's heads by the beanies.

understand all that too.....and agree.

I was mainly referring to the latest "O-gram" where the SCP actually typed an email and sent it to the crew force.

I quote the portion that I was referring to.... "Expect excesses in the 727 and Airbus which might result in secondary awards in the 757 and 777."

This is not possible under our system of vacancy postings/excess postings.

I was just saying it would be nice to get an email from our SCP that was accurate, timely, informative, and written with communication skills on the level of the office it's being sent from.

Is that so much to ask of the "System friggin' Chief Pilot"?

I'm not suggesting that the SCP is calling the shots or even has insider information of what's even being discussed.

I just wish he would refrain from putting out official communications that make it look/sound like he doesn't know what he's talking about, that confuse everyone more than provide insight, that he has to always immediately follow up with an in-person hub turn meeting to explain what he meant.

that's all I was saying.

He IS the SCP - maybe more people wouldn't question WHY he is that if he would figure out a way to communicate intelligently with us.

The Walrus
03-17-2010, 05:48 PM
To add, or pile on, I think O has been reading APC too often, resulting in the continued misuse of the "then, than" wording, so often displayed on this forum.

Quoting "O":

"Until than your professionalism in this matter is appreciated. Please do not delay a flight over this issue.":(

AFW_MD11
03-17-2010, 05:54 PM
To add, or pile on, I think O has been reading APC too often, resulting in the continued misuse of the "then, than" wording, so often displayed on this forum.

Quoting "O":

"Until than your professionalism in this matter is appreciated. Please do not delay a flight over this issue.":(

Exactly. I, for one, would appreciate some professionalism coming out of his office too....

Didn't the guy say he has an XO or something? Does SCP rate a secretary in this company?

Someone.....anyone.....to QC his writings where he might not look so completely buffoonerous each and every time he hits the send button?

AerisArmis
03-17-2010, 06:02 PM
, but this is the jest that I got.

FWIW it's "gist", unless of course, O was saying it in jest. Always happy to help.

MeXC
03-17-2010, 06:16 PM
Maybe he could just 'tweet' his updates to us with text acronyms and emoticons.
Isn't there a VP of Twitter OPs yet?

skypine27
03-17-2010, 06:34 PM
Didn't the guy say he has an XO or something? Does SCP rate a secretary in this company?

That chapped my ** too. I was like, "An X-what?? What kind of office is this anyway??"

Daniel Larusso
03-17-2010, 07:18 PM
Isn't there a VP of Twitter OPs yet?

I like it! That's pretty much right on the mark.:)

Daniel Larusso
03-17-2010, 07:45 PM
I was mainly referring to the latest "O-gram" where the SCP actually typed an email and sent it to the crew force.

I quote the portion that I was referring to.... "Expect excesses in the 727 and Airbus which might result in secondary awards in the 757 and 777."

This is not possible under our system of vacancy postings/excess postings.

Yes, I know and as I said on page 1, it was a poor choice of words. I just fail to see why people are so up in arms about it. He's made typo's/faux pas before and he will again. A ton of his info has been inaccurate, but imo no more inaccurate than the other people I've seen in charge since I've been here. It just looks worse because: he's nowhere near as good of a bs'er as the others, the well-chronicled typos, and he also gets to be in charge during what has been a horrible time in the FedEx crew force history(no tears for that, but fact is everything he does is consciously/unconsciously viewed through that prism). In the end, I find his information just as credible as the rest of the stuff I've heard from management and like many others I was taught long ago to only believe something if the union verifies it and/or it's painted and on the ramp. If there isn't a contract violation/attack involved, I personally can't get that riled up about it and their isn't one with the intent expressed in the O gram. If there is one, grab me a pitchfork and some lighter fluid.

Is that so much to ask of the "System friggin' Chief Pilot"?

No, but it be what it be around here. Is it too much to ask to not being turning in reams of paperwork years after going to an EFR, or any other of the similar questions we all could come up with? I just fail to see why this is getting more attention than even the prospect of another round of excesses which is probably why I'll stop talking about it after this!

I'm not suggesting that the SCP is calling the shots or even has insider information of what's even being discussed.


I couldn't tell if you were only referring to his gaffe about secondaries or the indecision in Overnight's post about whether the company was going to excess or just not fill secondaries which is why I made those remarks.

he has to always immediately follow up with an in-person hub turn meeting to explain what he meant.


I find it funny more than anything. Of course at most places, he'd have an audience at a hub turn meeting that could comfortably camp out in a Fotomat, especially in times like these but that's another topic for another time I suppose.

DLax85
03-17-2010, 07:55 PM
Listen...if the title for your thread doesn't tell me who is gonna be in the Final Four.......please keep it to yourself!! I mean really......I have important stuff to do like make my 2136th post on this worthless website!!!!!!:cool::rolleyes:

Kansas over Syracuse.....Duke over West Virginia.

Then the Blue Devils beat the Jay Hawks just like they did in 1991 --- 72 to 65.

(Really, there's absolutely no bias here !!;) DLax)

FLMD11CAPT
03-17-2010, 09:31 PM
Actually,
He would be better off crediting SLJ with the quote. The only thing Jackson even got close was the last line "Then they will know that I am the LORD, when I take vengeance on them."

Maybe Sam "ad-libbed", it just falls under the poetic license thing, or that's the bible in Tarantino's world because the rest isn't even close to EZ 25:17 in any bible I've read...........FWIW:rolleyes:

I guess you missed the emoiticon at the end of the post.........;)

Laughing_Jakal
03-17-2010, 09:32 PM
"....The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and goodwill shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children...."

"How will I know which wallet is yours?"


"Its the one that says '4A2B'":D

FDX28
03-18-2010, 08:32 AM
Kansas over Syracuse.....Duke over West Virginia.

Then the Blue Devils beat the Jay Hawks just like they did in 1991 --- 72 to 65.

(Really, there's absolutely no bias here !!;) DLax)


Anybody but Kentucky and Calipari :mad:



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