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View Full Version : UPS adds drivers, shrinks pilots


JustUnderPar
04-08-2010, 08:59 AM
Well the boys (and a couple of girls in Atlanta) are expanding the grounds side (expecting the FAA bill to pass??) While they are shrinking the airline side. Interesting way to do business. The air side is much more profitable than the ground side. Not sure the percentage because the way the bean counters cook the books. Guess that is why they make all that money!

usps-thinks-out-of-the-box: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/109258/usps-thinks-out-of-the-box?mod=career-leadership)

After the furlough we will have the tightest airline in the airline world. So tight in fact they have to cancel/delay flights for lack of crews. ACP's having fun yet? Its gonna get MUCH better.

20+ MANDATORY retirements this year, 50+ every year for the next few. 300 pilots on furlough by Spring of 2011.

By 2015 our Airline could be down to 2200-2300 pilots. Not parking any planes, well they say they are but that is not what is actually happening. Adding about 25 in the next 5 years.

Things that make you go HHHHMMMMMMM:mad:


UPSFO4LIFE
04-08-2010, 09:40 AM
I think we have seen the peak of pilots here at UPS. 2500 is a number I keep hearing for years and years to come. This place will probably never see 2900-3000 ever again. Scope is gonna be the next big issue for the IPA to tackle in the next few years.

JustUnderPar
04-08-2010, 11:21 AM
I think we have seen the peak of pilots here at UPS. 2500 is a number I keep hearing for years and years to come. This place will probably never see 2900-3000 ever again. Scope is gonna be the next big issue for the IPA to tackle in the next few years.


Shrink the most profitable division. Makes $en$e.


Jetjok
04-08-2010, 12:18 PM
A large part of the problem is that UPS was founded as a trucking company, and they've never been able to get over that mentality. When they started the "airline", they went and asked the truckers if they were interested in learning to fly the jets. Personally I believe that UPS management is still uneasy having to deal with pilots, because in a lot of cases, the pilots are as smart as, if not more so, than most of the managers. Not the (perceived) case with the box-throwers.

So just because the "airline" is the most profitable division of UPS, doesn't mean that the executives are committed to it. Left to their own devices, I'm sure they'd like to close the doors on the airline division, and go back to the way it was 50 years ago. It's because of the other air freight companies that UPS doesn't, understanding that they would loose even more market share.

JJ

JustUnderPar
04-08-2010, 03:38 PM
A large part of the problem is that UPS was founded as a trucking company, and they've never been able to get over that mentality. When they started the "airline", they went and asked the truckers if they were interested in learning to fly the jets. Personally I believe that UPS management is still uneasy having to deal with pilots, because in a lot of cases, the pilots are as smart as, if not more so, than most of the managers. Not the (perceived) case with the box-throwers.

So just because the "airline" is the most profitable division of UPS, doesn't mean that the executives are committed to it. Left to their own devices, I'm sure they'd like to close the doors on the airline division, and go back to the way it was 50 years ago. It's because of the other air freight companies that UPS doesn't, understanding that they would loose even more market share.

JJ

That about sums it up. Of course our current CEO was never a "box-head". Neither are some of his stooges on the BOD. Never happened here before. Of course the CEO has never gotten a 675% raise while freezing the MANAGEMENT PAY. Can't believe people (management and Roberto) defend this guy.

Oh well. What comes around goes around:cool:

CommutR4Life
04-08-2010, 03:41 PM
How deep would 300 go as far as hire dates?

JustUnderPar
04-08-2010, 03:45 PM
Fall 2006.

bozobigtop
04-08-2010, 08:49 PM
Well the boys (and a couple of girls in Atlanta) are expanding the grounds side (expecting the FAA bill to pass??) While they are shrinking the airline side. Interesting way to do business. The air side is much more profitable than the ground side. Not sure the percentage because the way the bean counters cook the books. Guess that is why they make all that money!

usps-thinks-out-of-the-box: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/109258/usps-thinks-out-of-the-box?mod=career-leadership)

After the furlough we will have the tightest airline in the airline world. So tight in fact they have to cancel/delay flights for lack of crews. ACP's having fun yet? Its gonna get MUCH better.

20+ MANDATORY retirements this year, 50+ every year for the next few. 300 pilots on furlough by Spring of 2011.

By 2015 our Airline could be down to 2200-2300 pilots. Not parking any planes, well they say they are but that is not what is actually happening. Adding about 25 in the next 5 years.

Things that make you go HHHHMMMMMMM:mad:

Trans america airlines was profitable, but the big insurance firm got rid of the airline unit anyway, Emery worldwide was profitable, and the old trucking company got rid of it. Pacific Southwest Airlines was profitable, but the real estate management firm got rid of it anyhow. Being profitable is not a sure thing especially if your opinion is disliked by the powers that be.

olympic
04-08-2010, 10:47 PM
A driver at UPS makes an average 75,000 dollars a year ...
A pilot at the regionals makes an average 25,000 dollars a year ...
??????????????????????????
Im sorry this just made my head spin ...

Soyathink
04-09-2010, 06:16 AM
Shrink the most profitable division. Makes $en$e.

Ship a two day air from Boston to Tampa. Does it see the inside of an airplane? Does the two day service bring in extra revenue? How many NDA packages dont see a plane? Ship a Next Day Air from Miami to Tampa and it gets there the same as a ground package that you pay less for. Cut the cost of the delivery by using ground while making revenue of air. Thats profitability.;)

JustUnderPar
04-09-2010, 07:39 AM
Ship a two day air from Boston to Tampa. Does it see the inside of an airplane? Does the two day service bring in extra revenue? How many NDA packages dont see a plane? Ship a Next Day Air from Miami to Tampa and it gets there the same as a ground package that you pay less for. Cut the cost of the delivery by using ground while making revenue of air. Thats profitability.;)

Also Illegal as UPS is about to find out.

http://www.upslawsuit.com/

chignutsak
04-09-2010, 08:04 AM
Ship a Next Day Air from Miami to Tampa and it gets there the same as a ground package that you pay less for. Cut the cost of the delivery by using ground while making revenue of air. Thats profitability.;)

That NDA will be delivered by 1030, whereas the ground package could be attempted at any time. THAT is what the customer pays extra for(hopefully).

solinator
04-09-2010, 08:56 AM
A large part of the problem is that UPS was founded as a trucking company, and they've never been able to get over that mentality. When they started the "airline", they went and asked the truckers if they were interested in learning to fly the jets. Personally I believe that UPS management is still uneasy having to deal with pilots, because in a lot of cases, the pilots are as smart as, if not more so, than most of the managers. Not the (perceived) case with the box-throwers.

So just because the "airline" is the most profitable division of UPS, doesn't mean that the executives are committed to it. Left to their own devices, I'm sure they'd like to close the doors on the airline division, and go back to the way it was 50 years ago. It's because of the other air freight companies that UPS doesn't, understanding that they would loose even more market share.

JJ

Agreed. From a strategic marketing view point - this is what caused the failure of the railways companies. They saw themselves as a "rail-laying industry" instead of a "transport" company. See the difference? Well put, JJ.

Soyathink
04-09-2010, 09:18 AM
Also Illegal as UPS is about to find out.

http://www.upslawsuit.com/

If you have a look see there is nothing stating in the terms of service that it has to go on an airplane. It just has to be there by a certain date and time. Fuel Surcharges are for all shipments not just air. Another frivoulous suit that is making this country so great. :rolleyes:

Lindy
04-09-2010, 09:38 AM
As a consumer, if I pay for a service or product, I expect that is the service or product I receive. If I spend the extra $$ for Next Day Air and UPS KNOWINGLY deceived me by charging "NDA" prices for something they put on a truck, I didn't receive the product/service I paid for. This is called contract law.

I do not consider this "profitability" but fraud.

iahflyr
04-09-2010, 09:40 AM
What does a UPS driver cost per hour and what does a UPS pilot cost per hour. That is the issue.

I think FedEx/UPS pilots asked for way too much on their last contract. Unions are great until they get so greedy that they put themselves out of a job. Just as the UAW.

Futureman
04-09-2010, 09:47 AM
What does a UPS driver cost per hour and what does a UPS pilot cost per hour. That is the issue.

I think FedEx/UPS pilots asked for way too much on their last contract. Unions are great until they get so greedy that they put themselves out of a job. Just as the UAW.

Not a good analogy. Pilot pay is chump change for UPS. UAW labor is a major expense at the auto companies.

Also, a pilot should earn more, much more, than a truck driver.

Tigerpilot1995
04-09-2010, 09:53 AM
What does a UPS driver cost per hour and what does a UPS pilot cost per hour. That is the issue.

I think FedEx/UPS pilots asked for way too much on their last contract. Unions are great until they get so greedy that they put themselves out of a job. Just as the UAW.

I bet I am a bargain if you break it down to how many miles I can travel an hour verse the truck.

UPSFO4LIFE
04-09-2010, 10:03 AM
What does a UPS driver cost per hour and what does a UPS pilot cost per hour. That is the issue.

I think FedEx/UPS pilots asked for way too much on their last contract. Unions are great until they get so greedy that they put themselves out of a job. Just as the UAW.

If you take into consideration the education, flight experience, and enormous responsiblity that I have flying all night long over many populated areas, I am not paid enough! Nothing against truck drivers, but I am not one. I may carry the same packages, but the reality is that I could learn and do their job in a matter of weeks or months where it would take the truck driver many many years to do what I do. Sorry, but greed has nothing to do with it my friend!!!!

de727ups
04-09-2010, 10:04 AM
Also, a pilot's "truck" is a lot more valuable that a feeder tractor/trailer. Compensation should be commensurate with responsibility for a higher value asset. Just glad I don't have to put on chains....

BoilerUP
04-09-2010, 10:53 AM
As a consumer, if I pay for a service or product, I expect that is the service or product I receive. If I spend the extra $$ for Next Day Air and UPS KNOWINGLY deceived me by charging "NDA" prices for something they put on a truck, I didn't receive the product/service I paid for.

Did UPS make service and get the package to its destination on time? If so, then yes you did receive the service you paid for.

UPS doesn't have "Next Day Ground". Depending on origin & destination some packages can be delivered via Ground one one calendar day...but the only guaranteed next-day service they offer is Next Day Air.

As a consumer, you paid UPS a premium for Next Day service. As your package gets to its destination on schedule, why would you give a flip how it got there?

JustUnderPar
04-09-2010, 11:07 AM
Did UPS make service and get the package to its destination on time? If so, then yes you did receive the service you paid for.

UPS doesn't have "Next Day Ground". Depending on origin & destination some packages can be delivered via Ground one one calendar day...but the only guaranteed next-day service they offer is Next Day Air.

As a consumer, you paid UPS a premium for Next Day service. As your package gets to its destination on schedule, why would you give a flip how it got there?

The problem is they are charging a "premium" fuel surcharge (jets) and moving it on a Truck (where the surcharge would be much lower).

As everything it seems with UPS these days. We'll see what the judge says.

Lindy
04-09-2010, 11:38 AM
A few notes:

1. The class action lawsuit will have UPS utilizing "Next Day Delivery" versus "Next Day Air" in the future.

2. This case will never go in front of a jury in this economy.

The issue isn't whether the package was delivered "as promised" but whether UPS mislead the consumer on the mode of transportation of delivery, thus charging a higher fee for a delivery UPS knew was going by ground transport.

Your analogy is off base regarding whether the package was actually delivered "on-time" -- the puported litigation isn't about the timeliness of deliveries.


If you think I am off-base about Note #2, the recent AT&T settlement regarding cancellation of contracts is a prime example.

chignutsak
04-09-2010, 11:41 AM
If you take into consideration the education, flight experience, and enormous responsibility that I have flying all night long over many populated areas, I am not paid enough! Nothing against truck drivers, but I am not one. I may carry the same packages, but the reality is that I could learn and do their job in a matter of weeks or months where it would take the truck driver many many years to do what I do. Sorry, but greed has nothing to do with it my friend!!!!

Your pay essentially leads the industry. So does the truck driver's. You make more than twice what he makes, even though he works 50 times harder. Each labor group earns exactly what they negotiated, based on their skill sets. Everyone is happy, right?

JustUnderPar
04-09-2010, 12:01 PM
A few notes:

1. The class action lawsuit will have UPS utilizing "Next Day Delivery" versus "Next Day Air" in the future.

2. This case will never go in front of a jury in this economy.

The issue isn't whether the package was delivered "as promised" but whether UPS mislead the consumer on the mode of transportation of delivery, thus charging a higher fee for a delivery UPS knew was going by ground transport.

Your analogy is off base regarding whether the package was actually delivered "on-time" -- the puported litigation isn't about the timeliness of deliveries.


If you think I am off-base about Note #2, the recent AT&T settlement regarding cancellation of contracts is a prime example.

It does not matter what you think or I think. I matters what a judge thinks. Bad Press no matter what.

I agree with what you are saying though.

Comparing canceling cell phone contracts and delivering of packages? Not sure I see the connection.

JustUnderPar
04-09-2010, 12:03 PM
Your pay essentially leads the industry. So does the truck driver's. You make more than twice what he makes, even though he works 50 times harder. Each labor group earns exactly what they negotiated, based on their skill sets. Everyone is happy, right?


Come on dude! Pilots are NEVER HAPPY. There is always something to complain about.:cool:

Slice
04-09-2010, 02:33 PM
Your pay essentially leads the industry. So does the truck driver's. You make more than twice what he makes, even though he works 50 times harder. Each labor group earns exactly what they negotiated, based on their skill sets. Everyone is happy, right?

Physically, you're right as far as lifting. However, they don't deal with circadian rhythm issues, time away from home, and their job is much less mentally tasking then mine. Oh yeah, and if they screw the pooch it doesn't cost around $250 mil to replace a package car...

weatherman
04-09-2010, 02:38 PM
comparing pilot jobs to package car driver jobs is silly. i'm surprised this discussion is even happening.

JustUnderPar
04-09-2010, 02:42 PM
comparing pilot jobs to package car driver jobs is silly. i'm surprised this discussion is even happening.

That is the way Atlanta does it:eek:

Jonathan E
04-09-2010, 08:35 PM
UPS knows where the $ are made. Red and Blue labels. Years ago, a former EB member actually read a poster on the wall near our old ready room. It showed trucks, sorts, feeder hubs, and oh yeah an airplane. In a small box, a graph showed where the profits came from. these were 1999 numbers, I think, with 85% air domestic red/blue label, 6% international air, and 9% slow ground.

We're hauling pure revenue. About 50x what a pax jet has. About $15 per pound of payload. Think about it. UPS labor does.

jungle
04-09-2010, 08:55 PM
UPS knows where the $ are made. Red and Blue labels. Years ago, a former EB member actually read a poster on the wall near our old ready room. It showed trucks, sorts, feeder hubs, and oh yeah an airplane. In a small box, a graph showed where the profits came from. these were 1999 numbers, I think, with 85% air domestic red/blue label, 6% international air, and 9% slow ground.

We're hauling pure revenue. About 50x what a pax jet has. About $15 per pound of payload. Think about it. UPS labor does.

Life often isn't "fair". If anyone thinks they deserve a break because they are qualified or UPS is still making a profit, think again. They are paring it down to the minimum required to get the job done. Domestic is still the big money, International is still the highest margin.
Demographics and Unions have almost nothing to do with these decisions and they won't matter at all in future decisions.
Economic factors outside the Company and the Union are the driver.

Slice
04-09-2010, 09:30 PM
I was once told that UPS sacrificed efficiency for reliability. So much so, that we had airborne hot spares. It seems these days we've gone to the other extreme. IMO extremes are rarely a good thing and we'll end up hosing ourselves(as a company) trying to save a (perceived) buck...:cool:

Freightpuppy
04-10-2010, 03:44 AM
I think FedEx/UPS pilots asked for way too much on their last contract. Unions are great until they get so greedy that they put themselves out of a job. Just as the UAW.

You are on crack.

Huck
04-10-2010, 03:58 AM
I think FedEx/UPS pilots asked for way too much on their last contract.

I absolutely love when I hear this.

And who was on the other side of the table? What were they doing?

Let me ask you this - you own a house? When you went in to the closing, did you give any thought to the seller's profit? Did you think, dang, I better pay a little more, I don't want to get too good a deal....

Contracts are a bargained-for exchange. Both sides are responsible for the outcome. Don't like it, don't sign it. That goes for the UAW too. Those Detroit execs made millions while signing those contracts - and they get their retirements. Then they get bailed out by Washington when their idiocy catches up to them.....

Shaggy1970
04-10-2010, 04:51 AM
The amount of speculation as to what UPS is planning to do in the future is a mystery. The only real known, is that as everyday passes and the economy shows more signs of recovery the better it becomes for all of us in the bottom three hundred. Lets quit with all this nonsense and wait to see what happens May 22nd.

notadog
04-10-2010, 04:56 AM
Shrink the most profitable division. Makes $en$e.

The Airline is not the most profitable division. Have you ever read the annual report?

JustUnderPar
04-10-2010, 07:34 AM
The Airline is not the most profitable division. Have you ever read the annual report?

What is?

Read through mine last week. Looks like the air side is over 2.5x more porfitable than anything else.


U.S. Domestic Package Operations
Year Ended December 31, % Change
2009 2008 2007 2009 / 2008 2008 / 2007
Revenue (in millions):
Next Day Air . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 5,456 $ 6,559 $ 6,738 (16.8)% (2.7)%
Deferred . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,859 3,325 3,359 (14.0) (1.0)
Ground . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19,843 21,394 20,888 (7.2) 2.4
Total Revenue . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $28,158 $31,278 $30,985 (10.0) 0.9
Average Daily Package Volume (in thousands):
Next Day Air . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,198 1,186 1,277 1.0% (7.1)%
Deferred . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 957 947 974 1.1 (2.8)
Ground . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10,895 11,443 11,606 (4.8) (1.4)
Total Avg. Daily Package Volume . . . . . . 13,050 13,576 13,857 (3.9) (2.0)
Average Revenue Per Piece:
Next Day Air . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 18.00 $ 21.95 $ 20.94 (18.0)% 4.8%
Deferred . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11.81 13.93 13.69 (15.2) 1.8
Ground . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.20 7.42 7.14 (3.0) 3.9
Total Avg. Revenue Per Piece . . . . . . . . . . $ 8.53 $ 9.14 $ 8.87 (6.7) 3.0
Operating Profit (in millions):
Operating Profit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 2,138 $ 3,907 $ (1,531) (45.3)% N/A
Impact of Pension Plan Withdrawal . . . . . . . . . 6,100
Impact of Aircraft Impairment Charges . . . . . . 181 159
Impact of SVSO Charge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 53
Adjusted Operating Profit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 2,319 $ 3,907 $ 4,781 (40.6)% (18.3)%
Operating Margin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.6% 12.5% (4.9)%
Adjusted Operating Margin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8.2% 12.5% 15.4%
Operating Days in Period . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 253 252

JustUnderPar
04-10-2010, 07:34 AM
And the International side: Over 14% margin is not bad.

International Package Operations
Year Ended December 31, % Change
2009 2008 2007 2009 / 2008 2008 / 2007
Revenue (in millions):
Domestic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $2,111 $ 2,344 $ 2,177 (9.9)% 7.7%
Export . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7,176 8,294 7,488 (13.5) 10.8
Cargo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 412 655 616 (37.1) 6.3
Total Revenue . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $9,699 $11,293 $10,281 (14.1) 9.8
Average Daily Package Volume (in thousands):
Domestic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,218 1,150 1,132 5.9% 1.6%
Export . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 796 813 761 (2.1) 6.8
Total Avg. Daily Package Volume . . . . . . . 2,014 1,963 1,893 2.6 3.7
Average Revenue Per Piece:
Domestic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ 6.85 $ 8.09 $ 7.63 (15.3)% 6.0%
Export . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35.63 40.48 39.05 (12.0) 3.7
Total Avg. Revenue Per Piece . . . . . . . . . . . $18.23 $ 21.50 $ 20.26 (15.2) 6.1
Operating Profit (in millions):
Operating Profit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $1,367 $ 1,580 $ 1,831 (13.5)% (13.7)%
Impact of Intangible Impairment Charge . . . . . . — 27 —
Impact of Aircraft Impairment Charge . . . . . . . . — — 62
Impact of SVSO Charge . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . — — 7
Adjusted Operating Profit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $1,367 $ 1,607 $ 1,900 (14.9)% (15.4)%
Operating Margin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14.1% 14.0% 17.8%
Adjusted Operating Margin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14.1% 14.2% 18.5%
Operating Days in Period . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 253 252 252
Currency Translation Benefit / (Cost)—(in millions)*:
Revenue . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $ (376) $ 324
Operating Profit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (23) 136

UPSFO4LIFE
04-10-2010, 08:16 AM
I was told when I got hired a few years back, and still believe it to be the case that on any given domestic flight, 2(TWO, I SAID 2) full containers on any airplane, pays for the flight. Every other package is pure profit for the company.

Roberto
04-10-2010, 08:40 AM
I was told when I got hired a few years back, and still believe it to be the case that on any given domestic flight, 2(TWO, I SAID 2) full containers on any airplane, pays for the flight. Every other package is pure profit for the company.

That may be true, but without the 100,000+ vehicles, 400,000+ workers, and billions and billions of dollars in plant and equipment that enables the company to deliver those packages to individual customers in over 200 countries within a day or so, how many of those packages would you get paying customers to bring to just any ol' airplane to fly them from point A to point B?

chignutsak
04-10-2010, 09:13 AM
Physically, you're right as far as lifting. However, they don't deal with circadian rhythm issues, time away from home, and their job is much less mentally tasking then mine. Oh yeah, and if they screw the pooch it doesn't cost around $250 mil to replace a package car...

I've done both jobs. The mental stress level was much higher as a driver. If you think that all there is to the driving job is extra lifting, well, you don't know the job. It is an all day pressure cooker, out in the weather. It is surprisingly mental too, meaning that intense concentration at times is required to do the job not only safely and well, but also to deliver the numbers the management goons demand. There is relentless pressure at all levels of the operation to get it done, and you are a piece of dung based on your numbers yesterday. The wear and tear on your body is unbelievable; multiply your circadian rhythm complaint times ten. Now try and see if you make it to your pension and still be able to lift your grandchildren. Yes, you are home every night, how does 8PM (or later) sound to your wife? If a UPS driver(or pilot) hits someone or something, it will cost the company huge bucks, since there will be plenty of shyster attorneys ready to descend upon any incident. And yes, the driver can lose his job, too.

I am not implying that a driver, who is busting his or her rump to bring you your air volume in the evening, then go back out in the dark and deliver 20 more stops in an unfamiliar area, should be paid more than you. Nor am I implying that a driver's training and preparation to do the job equals our own. Again, each group has negotiated what they are worth, based on their skill sets. I am saying that you have a simplistic view of what it takes to pick up and deliver your volume, Sky God. No doubt some drivers believe we are a bunch of overpaid primadonnas who mash autopilot buttons most of the day for a living, and then cry about how tough we have it the rest of the day, but I would like to think that most drivers and pilots have mutual respect and realize that the company needs the concerted efforts of everyone to make it happen.

Flying airplanes is much easier than driving the brown truck, except for those proverbial inverted, single-engine NDB approaches to minimums with 30 knot gusting crosswinds. There is a reason I switched careers.

golfandfly
04-10-2010, 09:13 AM
Roberto, are you the guy doing the extra flying at UPS?

JustUnderPar
04-10-2010, 09:53 AM
Roberto, are you the guy doing the extra flying at UPS?

Ye$ he i$:mad:

320Driver
04-10-2010, 10:19 AM
What a clA$$y guy. At least he got his...