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View Full Version : Arrow/Centurion


Blowtorch joc
04-09-2010, 11:03 AM
Whats up with Arrow Air, heard Centurion Cargo is buying them.


VF32TomCat
04-11-2010, 10:26 AM
This is what I found on Air Cargo News

Centurion Air Cargo bid for Arrow

08-Apr-2010

AIR Cargo News has learned from sources within Centurion that owner and chairman Alfonso Rey has firmed up a bid to buy US-based freighter specialist airline Arrow Cargo.

The move, if successful, would see Centurion absorb the airline’s fleet of MD-11Fs, DC-10Fs and B757 freighters and create a powerful American all-cargo airline, with a particularly strong network into Latin America.

In addition, Air Cargo News believes that Centurion Air Cargo and Russian long-haul B747 freighter operator AirBridge Cargo are to commence a new partnership to service the Latin American flower trade. The new deal will see Centurion feeding flowers from South America (particularly Ecuador) into Miami. Here they will have a crew change and add fuel to continue to Europe and especially Russia, where demand for the flowers is high. It is believed the service will link Moscow-Amsterdam-Miami.

Blowtorch joc
04-11-2010, 04:11 PM
Centurion is not interested in DC-10's anymore (I think, I don't know) they have no use for the 757's, maybe the Ecuador flower routes and to reduce the competition is the reason for this bid. Those MD11's are flown by World Airways they are not on Arrows certificate. I predict another massive rush to the unemplyment office soon, just ask the A300 Tradewinds pilots.


Jedinight
04-12-2010, 02:33 PM
How are the lines at Centurion? any OT?

How r the reserve lines?

is the MD 11 pay beter than the DC-10?

JN

MD-11Loader
04-13-2010, 08:06 PM
I wonder what will happen to the 6 A330F's that Matlin Patterson ordered a couple years back? They were going to go to Arrow, but who knows now.

Radials Rule
04-14-2010, 03:10 AM
For their own sake, let's hope that Centurion buys them. According to this, it won't be good if they don't.

Arrow Air may lay off 473, cease operations - South Florida Business Journal: (http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2010/04/12/daily12.html)

okbk
04-14-2010, 02:26 PM
I wonder what will happen to the 6 A330F's that Matlin Patterson ordered a couple years back? They were going to go to Arrow, but who knows now.

World hopefully

Jedinight
04-14-2010, 07:46 PM
Is their a difference between the dc-10 pay rates and the MD-11? I only see posted the DC-10 Rates.

Secondly, can anyone tell me how are the lines?

Would it be good to go work for Centurion as a Junior FO if they buy ARROW?

JN

Blowtorch joc
04-15-2010, 06:26 PM
with thousands of pilots with millions of hours of experience out of a job in the good old USA, I think it would be good to just have a job any place don't you think.

Jedinight
04-15-2010, 07:21 PM
Iím furloughed from another airline and currently have a day Job (not flying).

If I were to start training I have been asked to resign and want to make an educated decision if I am going to give up my right to go back to my previous airline.

I just want to know what the difference between the MD-11 is and the DC-10 pay scale if there is one and how are the lines? Any other basic info about Centurion?
JN

SabreDriver
04-15-2010, 08:08 PM
Iím furloughed from another airline and currently have a day Job (not flying).

If I were to start training I have been asked to resign and want to make an educated decision if I am going to give up my right to go back to my previous airline.

I just want to know what the difference between the MD-11 is and the DC-10 pay scale if there is one and how are the lines? Any other basic info about Centurion?
JN

Do you mean..... that Centurion has offered you a job (class date) and they have required (as a condition of employment) you to give them a copy of your resignation letter to the carrier you are furloughed from? ;)

jonnyjetprop
04-16-2010, 04:35 AM
From the grapevine:

12 days off

3 hour call from call to wheels up. The company may/is changing this to 2 hours. So all line are in effect, reserve lines. This means that you'll have to be in Dade County (Miami) to work there. Some guys have crash pads.

Don't know what the difference in pay is between the DC-10 and MD-11.

More information when you can get PM's

skypiratedc10
04-16-2010, 07:03 AM
I wouldn't count on the A330-200's heading to Centurion - MP still would have two airlines to push them toward NA or World - or selling the options to the highest bidder - Unless it becomes part of the "purchase" which I highly doubt would happen - then again this is the airline business where hedge funds rule.

Blowtorch joc
04-17-2010, 10:16 AM
As per a friend who's an instructor with Centurion he says that they parked or sent to Cielos (sister company) their last DC-10 in Jan. They only operate MD11's. Chief pilot has over 5000 resumes in her office he says.

Jedinight
04-17-2010, 02:20 PM
I was told I would be in the June/July class which would be the next class.

Most likey would go to the DC-10 at Cielos because my wife's peruvian and I can get papers to work there.

But they also told me that they would put me in the first class from the 3 companies. Centurion/Cielos/Leasing Co. (Tradewinds). I live 15 min from the airport so it a 2 hour call out is no problem.

I just worried about quiting my other company because I was furloughed a few months after I was hired and don't want the same thing to happen here with out a backup.

Thanks for the info.

JN

SabreDriver
04-18-2010, 05:39 PM
I was told I would be in the June/July class which would be the next class.

Most likey would go to the DC-10 at Cielos because my wife's peruvian and I can get papers to work there.

But they also told me that they would put me in the first class from the 3 companies. Centurion/Cielos/Leasing Co. (Tradewinds). I live 15 min from the airport so it a 2 hour call out is no problem.

I just worried about quiting my other company because I was furloughed a few months after I was hired and don't want the same thing to happen here with out a backup.

Thanks for the info.

JN

I feel you pain, having had to make a similar decision in the past. You have to make the decision with the information you have at the time.

VF32TomCat
04-21-2010, 07:56 PM
howdy Jedinight I was told by a friend of my that they may move the class for May 24. do you know anything about it?

Jedinight
04-22-2010, 08:19 AM
It is very possible that they moved up the class date. I will find out today if this is true.

Thanks for the info

JN

VF32TomCat
04-22-2010, 04:13 PM
howdy Jedinight, if you find out let me know ?

thank you

TC

VF32TomCat
04-26-2010, 09:35 PM
how is that centurion only have or is allowed to have 5 airplane only?

Csy Mon
04-28-2010, 06:34 AM
How many Tradewinds pilots ended up over at Centurion?

Is Boris and Rand coming over from Arrow.?

astrojet
04-28-2010, 07:22 AM
Can any Centurion Pilot here tell us what your jumpseat procedure is?....this website says you have CASS...how do you list...where are the schedules etc etc....thanks

Jedinight
04-29-2010, 07:24 PM
VF32TomCat, the word on the street is still summer July/Aug. Don't know anything else.

JN

Blowtorch joc
06-08-2010, 09:16 AM
For their own sake, let's hope that Centurion buys them. According to this, it won't be good if they don't.

Arrow Air may lay off 473, cease operations - South Florida Business Journal: (http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2010/04/12/daily12.html)

Heard that Centurion pulled out of the negotiations. Arrow pilots were told to start looking for jobs some place else.

ea500driver
06-09-2010, 06:44 AM
If there is any one from Arrow Cargo on line, can you give me, (us) a good update on the company's plans. I thought for sure that if/when that Colombian free trade agreement was reached with the U.S Government, that Arrow would have bee in the cat bird seat....

Blueridge877
06-17-2010, 03:11 PM
Arrow Cargo (http://www.arrowcargo.com) "NEWS"

June 10, 2010
Ref. Arrow Cargo
Dear Customers, Partners, and Vendors;
We are aware of the many rumors in the marketplace with regards to Arrow's financial
difficulties. Many of these rumors are suggesting that Arrow will be ceasing operat°ons in the
coming days' These allegations are untrue. There are continued discussions with investors to
ensure we continue to serve our customers for many years to come, and those discussions are
expected to be completed in the coming weeks. We appreciate your loyalty and support, and
look forward to our continued working relationship.

skypiratedc10
06-18-2010, 07:05 PM
Who knows maybe Davie Matlin put his hand in his pocket - Word on the street is that hedge fund has around $9 B in it right now - If they think they can salvage things by "working" their way out of the debt burden - who knows. Stranger things have happened. Good luck to those flying with them I hope something positive happens and you all keep flying and getting paid.

best of luck and fly safe.

wldplt
06-19-2010, 03:05 AM
Who knows maybe Davie Matlin put his hand in his pocket - Word on the street is that hedge fund has around $9 B in it right now - If they think they can salvage things by "working" their way out of the debt burden - who knows. Stranger things have happened. Good luck to those flying with them I hope something positive happens and you all keep flying and getting paid.

best of luck and fly safe.

MatlinPatterson's MO is to drop non performing companies like hot potatoes, not put more money in to try and turn things around. My guess is there's another player looking to take over at pennies on the dollar and MP are trying to salvage something before moving on.

F15andMD11
06-21-2010, 09:30 AM
My guess is there's another player looking to take over at pennies on the dollar and MP are trying to salvage something before moving on.Ya I wouldn't be surprised if another MP company moves in. Humm who could that be? Rumor has it it's either World or NAA. World and then NAA, after they get MP's330s that are on order. World been telling its Ops Reps to prepare to return to MIA. I hope all this is not at the expense of the Arrow crews, but sounds like it will be.

dc10pilot
06-21-2010, 11:10 AM
Ya I wouldn't be surprised if another MP company moves in. Humm who could that be? Rumor has it it's either World or NAA. World and then NAA, after they get MP's330s that are on order. World been telling its Ops Reps to prepare to return to MIA. I hope all this is not at the expense of the Arrow crews, but sounds like it will be.

rumor has it that World will go all freight and the pax birds World has will go to NAA

wldplt
06-21-2010, 11:17 AM
rumor has it that World will go all freight and the pax birds World has will go to NAA

You're saying NAA is going to operate MD-11s? I can't wait for the s#!+ storm that would cause.:eek: FWIW, I think there is zero chance what you are speculating will happen.

wldplt
06-21-2010, 11:21 AM
rumor has it that World will go all freight and the pax birds World has will go to NAA


You're saying NAA is going to operate MD-11's? I can't wait for the s#!+ storm that would create.:eek: FWIW I don't think any such thing is going to happen

allaboutthegirt
06-21-2010, 11:47 AM
I heard NAA will be taking delivery of the MP airbuses. Something about NAA being profitable and World can't afford the lease rates.

Palmtree Pilot
06-21-2010, 01:11 PM
HAAHHAAAAHHAAAAAAAAA... HAAHAAHAAHAAAHA...

This is getting funny now.:D

PtP

Jedinight
06-22-2010, 01:43 PM
Does anyone know what the Centurion pay scale is for the MD-11?

MD-11Loader
06-24-2010, 05:54 AM
I heard NAA will be taking delivery of the MP airbuses. Something about NAA being profitable and World can't afford the lease rates.

It all comes out of the same pot in the end. What the 330F would do to us is cause us to have the following on property (assuming the current fleet stays as is)

3 DC-10-30
2 747-400BDSF
8 MD-11F (9 when 380 comes out of the desert)
6 MD-11 Pax
6 A330F

Not a very cost effective fleet to manage if you ask me. Not to mention we'd have to acquire an ETOPS certificate.

wldplt
06-24-2010, 09:53 AM
It all comes out of the same pot in the end. What the 330F would do to us is cause us to have the following on property (assuming the current fleet stays as is)

3 DC-10-30
2 747-400BDSF
8 MD-11F (9 when 380 comes out of the desert)
6 MD-11 Pax
6 A330F

Not a very cost effective fleet to manage if you ask me. Not to mention we'd have to acquire an ETOPS certificate.

The DC-10's will be gone before year end and World is acquiring another MD-11 and 747. I can't see the A-330's coming here unless, as a previous poster speculated, World will be picking up the SA work that Arrow has. World's policy is to not acquire aircraft until they have the business for it. As for the ETOPS, those are new aircraft and the ETOPS comes with them and could be run by Airbus as part of a lease agreement. Frankly, I don't see it happening though nor do I see NAA picking them up. NAA having a freight program is problematic and contradicts GAH's strategic plan.

allaboutthegirt
06-24-2010, 10:43 AM
"We also see cargo becoming a revenue
stream for North American. Just this summer, the first 767‐300
converted freighter rolled off the line and we believe that this
medium‐sized cargo category will fill a market void in the coming
years. We expect it to be a successful growth area for North
American."

Straight from the Global Review; Five‐Year Plan Prepares for Growth
Rob Binns, CEO

Palmtree Pilot
06-24-2010, 04:57 PM
The DC-10's will be gone before year end and World is acquiring another MD-11 and 747. I can't see the A-330's coming here unless, as a previous poster speculated, World will be picking up the SA work that Arrow has. World's policy is to not acquire aircraft until they have the business for it. As for the ETOPS, those are new aircraft and the ETOPS comes with them and could be run by Airbus as part of a lease agreement. Frankly, I don't see it happening though nor do I see NAA picking them up. NAA having a freight program is problematic and contradicts GAH's strategic plan.

The ACP, not that I believe anything out of mngt mouths, said that nothing as far as more MD-11s is set in stone. This was last week in RGS. He actually said something to the effect of there might be a possibility of maybe bringing 380 out of the desert.:eek: I also heard (RUMOR) that we didn't win the bid on the JAL 74s. EVERYTHING is speculation and we probably won't know about it until were flying in it.

"We also see cargo becoming a revenue
stream for North American. Just this summer, the first 767‐300
converted freighter rolled off the line and we believe that this
medium‐sized cargo category will fill a market void in the coming
years. We expect it to be a successful growth area for North
American."

Straight from the Global Review; Five‐Year Plan Prepares for Growth
Rob Binns, CEO

I would not believe anything until you're sitting in the pilot seat of a 767 frieghter.

I wish all of us under the GAL umbrella the best of luck!!!!:D

PtP

longhauler
06-25-2010, 06:02 AM
Those 74's are going to National, Kalitta was bidding on them as well.

Blowtorch joc
06-29-2010, 10:14 AM
Van driver helper told us this morning that at 5pm ET Arrow will anounce their permanent shut down, anyone have any news?

MD-11Loader
06-30-2010, 10:30 AM
Arrow Air grounded after 57 years - South Florida Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2010/06/28/daily30.html)

Arrow has now shutdown. Best of luck to all involved in the operation

Csy Mon
06-30-2010, 01:12 PM
Yeah, RIP Arrow.

How many pilots on the street?

150? 200?

Some jobs to be had across the ramp:
Skylease 1 (The remains of Tradewinds) is taking on 6 MD 11s and running classes right now.
Second class started a week ago, more to come.

MNPS 50N50W
06-30-2010, 03:42 PM
June 30, 2010
CONFIDENTIAL (B767 Captains & First Offficers - Southeast, United States)

This just popped up on climbto350. Didn't Arrow operate 757's. Looks like someone has already moved to fill the void....

BlaneDouglas
06-30-2010, 05:26 PM
My first thread here. Was senior left seat on the DC-10. I had my resume out to both Centurion and Tradewinds before the shut down, 'cause I saw it coming. I haven't heard from either, and I only know of one FO who has. Looks real bad for everyone at Arrow.

Despite the certificate still being active and the fact we still have a CBA, the chief pilot followed Matlin Patterson's orders to "terminate" everyone, instead of a furlough. I was offered to stay on as an FO, possibly to help them ferry some DC-10's to the desert, but I think he terminated me too after I hung up on him.

After 18 years there, I was threatened to do what I was told, or I would be fired- and that was after the shut down! I chose to stick with the rest of the guys junior to me who didn't have a choice.

Good luck to all the guys and their families.

Csy Mon
07-01-2010, 01:21 PM
I had my resume out to both Centurion and Tradewinds before the shut down, 'cause I saw it coming

Got to know somebody to get in on the MD-11 deal over at Skylease 1.
They are putting together a "good bunch of people"...That means folks that won't cause trouble and vote for a union...:rolleyes:

So, was Rand and Boris at Arrow to the bitter end?

Rumor says some new outfit is starting up with 757s or 767s and 747s.
National or some such thing.?

If you got Boris's phone #, shoot me a PM, Enjoy talking to him, but lost touch after I left TDX in 2007.

atpcliff
07-01-2010, 05:26 PM
Hi!

National is the new name for Murray, in YIP. They have been around a long time. They are now adding 757s and 747-400s.

cliff
LFW



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