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View Full Version : Cathay Pacific


FlyPurdue
05-11-2010, 05:18 AM
Hi All,

I am new to this forum. I will be graduating from Purdue University in December of this year, and just yesterday was contacted by Cathay Pacific, to interview for a position of Second Officer via the Cadet Pilot route. It appears they will pay for everything, and in 12 months, I will be a second officer on a widebody. Now, before I am told to use the search function, I have. I have looked all over this forum, PPrune's Fragrant Harbor site, and I have exhausted all web resources. Do we have any Cathay Employees on this board? Does anybody know if its really that bad? Currently I have north of 500 hours, and 200 of that is instruction. Right now, It looks like regionals might be an option, but a self made time line has me becoming FO in 5 years, on Cathay. In the very least, I would be building heavy jet, xc time, and getting international experience.

What are your thought?

Thanks!


rotorhead1026
05-11-2010, 06:39 AM
Very interesting. How did you get the contact? Did they solicit your entire graduating class, screen and contact some of your class, or was this "out of the blue"? Or, do you just know somebody? :)

And, is it Cathay proper, or a recruiting agency?

You'll have to balance the contract terms against what might be a very interesting and valuable experience. I don't know much about CX, but I do know a bit about Asia as well as expat contracts (along with many others on this forum). What you might do is post the terms and conditions quoted (if any) and filter the comments. Hopefully somebody who works for CX will post soon.

Your post stuck out because my oldest boy was graduated from Purdue a couple of years ago. He was smart, though - mechanical engineer. :D

Seriously, I hope this is all that it seems at this point - a terrific opportunity.

12th Man
05-11-2010, 08:30 AM
I don't work for Cathay, but I know several who do, and I see and meet their pilots as I fly around the world. It's a top-drawer, rigorous & standardized training program, they fly modern, relatively new, all-glass wide-bodies, and they give you the chance to see the world.

Ask yourself why you want to be a pilot. Do you want to sit at the gate in, say, Oklahoma City, look over at your captain while he's eating pilfered instant-oatmeal from the Holiday Inn Express and think, "Woo-hoo! Next stop: Shreveport!!", or do you want to start out on a -400 flying from HKG; wondering if you're going to have schnitzel or rolladen tonight in Frankfurt?

Should you end up disliking it or wanting to move back to West Lafayette, the fact that you made it through their training program, your 747-400 or A340 SIC time, and your considerable international operating experience will be more meaningful to any prospective employer than thousands of hours flying a Saab between Muscle Shoals & Tupelo.

This is a no-brainer: in my mind's eye, there's absolutely no question but to take the position at Cathay.


JUG47
05-11-2010, 08:55 AM
This is a great opportunity. Take it if it is offered.
Not many airlines offer this chance anymore. I know several CX drivers and they have progessed up the ladder nicely since the early-mid 90's.
I have lived in Asia and loved it. Not sure how basing works at CX anymore, but boeing drivers used to be able to pick from several bases worldwide.
I have also worked for US regionals. Do everything do avoid that path, it's depressing.
Airlines are not the same anymore as you can tell from these forums and CX has not escaped unscathed either, but it is certainly one of the better places left.
Congrats & Best of luck to you!

tzadik
05-11-2010, 09:32 AM
couldnt agree more with taking this over regionals but ive done a little research and have discovered that potentialy they might want you to instruct at said academy before you go to the airline. something to look into.

Flyby1206
05-11-2010, 10:47 AM
Last I heard they were just looking for locals to do the cadet program, I didnt know they were hiring ex-pats again. I had a SO interview scheduled for Oct 2008 but it was canceled 2 weeks prior and all hiring stopped. Apparently, I was to be put in a hiring pool when they resumed.

FlyPurdue
05-11-2010, 10:53 AM
Thanks all, I applied back around January 1, and did not think I would ever here any thing, then I got an email yesterday, letting me know that I had been selected to go to stage one of the interview 4 stages. Rotorhead, this is the real Cathay, not an outside hiring agency. I have read much negativity regarding the way of life for a SO, but personally I find it exciting, and am willing to make sacrifices to succeed in aviation. They began to hire expatriates such as myself in june of last year.

myoface
05-11-2010, 10:57 AM
Word of caution....read the fine print with regards to the Cadet program. I think you give up all housing allowances and maybe schooling allowances as well. Not to familier with the new cadet program, but I understand it has changed alot....and not for the better.

Smash312
05-11-2010, 11:47 AM
Don't ask questions, just go to Cathay if you get though the interviews. Do yourself a big favor. Study hard and don't you dare worry about when you'll become FO or Captain. You're coming fresh out of college, no wife or kids (I'm assuming) - no brainier. A lot of people a LOT more experienced than you would take it. Consider yourself lucky and BEST OF LUCK!

Laxrox43
05-11-2010, 11:49 AM
Hi All,

I am new to this forum. I will be graduating from Purdue University in December of this year, and just yesterday was contacted by Cathay Pacific, to interview for a position of Second Officer via the Cadet Pilot route. It appears they will pay for everything, and in 12 months, I will be a second officer on a widebody. Now, before I am told to use the search function, I have. I have looked all over this forum, PPrune's Fragrant Harbor site, and I have exhausted all web resources. Do we have any Cathay Employees on this board? Does anybody know if its really that bad? Currently I have north of 500 hours, and 200 of that is instruction. Right now, It looks like regionals might be an option, but a self made time line has me becoming FO in 5 years, on Cathay. In the very least, I would be building heavy jet, xc time, and getting international experience.

What are your thought?
Thanks!

Just an FYI, Cathay is not a company that you work for to "build experience" and move on. It is a career position. So if your intentions are to build time and leave, don't bother interviewing. Leave room in the company for those who have dreamt of working there their whole lives. Thank you.

Lax

BoeingMyWay
05-11-2010, 12:09 PM
FlyPurdue
US based CX pilot here. Check your PM's. Be happy to discuss the opportunity with CX.
Cheers!

marcal
05-11-2010, 12:18 PM
Word of caution....read the fine print with regards to the Cadet program. I think you give up all housing allowances and maybe schooling allowances as well. Not to familier with the new cadet program, but I understand it has changed alot....and not for the better.

One Hundred Percent Accurate.

Ask yourself this......why has CX always been a premier place to work? Because historically they paid the best and provided the best benefits to LURE THE MOST EXPERIENCED EXPATRIATES TO LIVE AND WORK IN HONG KONG. What CX is doing by opening the cadet program to everyone is a training and recruitment PARADIGM shift.

Remember three years ago, when all the regionals dropped their mins to recruit instead of increasing pay? This is CX's way of doing the same thing.

You may want to live in Hong Kong, one of the most expensive cities on earth without housing allowances. I know 1000+ HK based Cathay pilots that do not. That is why they are there. Not to get widebody time or glass time. It is too make more money than they could at home.

The new cadet program DOES NOT OFFER that. If you think 20-30K in the US is bad, 50-60K USD in Hong Kong is atrocious.

Best of luck. Oh by the way, you may want to go to pprune.org and ask a current SO how fast his three year upgrade is coming. Do not forget, that the upgrades are driven by growth and retirements. CX is growing, albeit, on a snails pace at the moment, and we have just raised the retirement age to 65 from 55 for the majority. It is a relatively young pilot group with plenty of mid 30 year old captains who started as SO's like you may. Except they get housing allowance, school allowance, and so on and so forth.

In all honesty, most CX pilots accept the locals doing this program b/c it is their only way in. But to see expats willing to do it for nothing is cringe worthy. But really who is to blame? You, a motivated young pilot like we all once were? Or a management that is willing to prey on your willingness?

Best of luck.

FlyPurdue
05-11-2010, 12:19 PM
All, I do not see this as a "career move" and am passionate about this industry and want to find a career i can stay with for the long haul, I apologize, if I came off as a person trying to build time, and then leaving!

marcal
05-11-2010, 12:32 PM
All, I do not see this as a "career move" and am passionate about this industry and want to find a career i can stay with for the long haul, I apologize, if I came off as a person trying to build time, and then leaving!

You do not need to apologize for anything in regards to your career. If you feel the need to go somewhere if even for two weeks than do it. Only one person in this industry is looking out for you and guess who that is?

TimSmith
05-11-2010, 12:42 PM
Take this opportunity and do not look back. Young, single, just out of college. You are free to suffer the "indignities" of Hong Kong on scraps. Look at it this way. You get to see the world. You fly "heavies." I cannot over-emphasize the importance of that fact. It will instantly make you more competitive for ANY airline job and qualify you for ex-pat contracts if you choose to move on. You made it through Cathay's interview (if you make it.) They are known for having the most technical, thorough, pain in the arse interview anywhere. They also have a very demanding company culture. This is not necessarily a negative, but you will have to be a consummate professional to work for Cathay and everyone knows it.

In contrast, you work for a regional. When the interviews for a major job come up and you are trying to get in on the beginning of a hiring "wave" you will be just like 10,000 other regional pilots. The earliest hires will be those with "big" airplane experience and international experience, those who have proven themselves in the type of operation they are trying to be hired into. If you go regional US, you have not set yourself apart.

Ask everyone you know in the industry how many 25 year olds have "heavy" time they know of. The number is strikingly low.

Cathay is a great career destination in itself. If you change your mind at age 30, 35, 40...then you have a resume that will get you in the door anywhere in the world you wish to fly.

This is a no brainer and if you turn it down I would never mention it again. It would reflect on your judgement and that is a major part of our job.

Long Haul
05-11-2010, 01:57 PM
Sixteen years ago, I was a turboprop captain when I took a job at a major foreign airline as a second officer. It was by far the best decision I ever made in my life. You may find that Hong Kong is not for you, but even the process of interviewing will be invaluable to your career. Start preparing now, and go into the interview with the attitude that you would love to work there. By the end of the process I'm sure that you will know if you'll be happy there. Good Luck!

GreenTailWhale
05-12-2010, 10:27 AM
Most definitely, take the interview. Decide once the job offer has been made.

Best of luck.

Cheers
G.T.W. (CX driver)

KiloAlpha
05-12-2010, 10:50 AM
I just don't understand airlines.. I have 4500+ hours, 3000+ jet/fms/glass... and this guy gets a call...omfg :mad:

I have been updating my online profile twice a month for nearly a year and not a peep. Best of luck.

**EDIT** just saw it was a SO position. my rant was about a FO position

Five Green
05-12-2010, 11:18 AM
I just don't understand airlines.. I have 4500+ hours, 3000+ jet/fms/glass... and this guy gets a call...omfg :mad:

I have been updating my online profile twice a month for nearly a year and not a peep. Best of luck.

**EDIT** just saw it was a SO position. my rant was about a FO position

Hang in there and keep updating. Cathay sees new opportunities on the horizon and another quick bit of growth is inevitable. Based on their history and I what I'm seeing now I would say DEFO hiring will commence within a year. We are overstaffed on some fleets right now but that's nothing that a net gain of 2-3 aircraft can't cure. Aircraft are operating at high load factors and yields are through the roof. I see good times ahead.

Good luck

MeLu
05-13-2010, 06:48 AM
just don't understand airlines.. I have 4500+ hours, 3000+ jet/fms/glass... and this guy gets a call...omfg :mad:

I have been updating my online profile twice a month for nearly a year and not a peep. Best of luck.


You do not worry about it that much, I was also succ at Cathay Pacific, but because, my mum is aviation doctor she told me I need to wait a little bit. You know what, there is a huge difference between an expat and a permanent base. Then after all, I decided to fly occasionally with my capt brother due to a small minimal health defect, I can fly but again I would need really really really trying my best all the time. You must contact someone directly. Some people by the way are sticky at this blog, someone knew someone and I already had pulled a person to our European Union cockpit with an interview and training and etc,,, why would I remember it why is a person asking for it? But, I was younger. It is not a time to look back at all sometimes it is this way . I can fly occasionally shall see further on, sometimes I do not understand many things. You know what I think really, really, that people make the problems on their own.Now I wish to hear about F 14 and 16 stories. DO not worry Melu

4everFO
05-13-2010, 07:34 AM
With 500 hours total and already having instructor experience you might be a candidate for the expat instructor program (hired then seconded to ADL to instruct cadets with a CX seniority number for a set amount of time). If this is the route that CX offers then you will be given housing assistance in HKG as an SO. If this is a straight cadet entry pilot (SO) position then you will be living off your very small SO paycheck in the world's most, arguably, expensive city. If you are single then you can get a flop house sort of place with other SOs as a place to hang between trips and vacations around the world, but that life style can get old quickly.

Something to keep in mind as well is that SO time at CX is with a P2X rating. It is basically a rating concocted by CX with the help of HKCAD that will keep SOs at CX because the rating doesn't allow you to even log P2/SIC time in the jet. You can only log P2X time. Now, some airlines throughout the world might take the widebody time as SIC time if you log it that way. Remember too that your "flying" as an SO will consist of doing cruise paperwork and radio work while the captain or relief FO spins the heading bug.

Bottom line, if you wind up in HKG as a SO as a youngster without housing allowance, you can do your time as an SO take your upgrade to FO and then try and get a basing back in the US where your package will be identical to every other pilot in the same rank in the US. On the other hand, the HK Aircrew Officer Assoc (HKAOA), the in house union, are currently trying to up the package for cadet entry pilots. If that happens in the future then you are laughing as you have just gotten into CX in your low 20s and will be a widebody captain by 35 (historically speaking).

Go in with your eyes wide open

-400 FO

olympic
05-13-2010, 07:51 AM
With 500 hours total and already having instructor experience you might be a candidate for the expat instructor program (hired then seconded to ADL to instruct cadets with a CX seniority number for a set amount of time). If this is the route that CX offers then you will be given housing assistance in HKG as an SO. If this is a straight cadet entry pilot (SO) position then you will be living off your very small SO paycheck in the world's most, arguably, expensive city. If you are single then you can get a flop house sort of place with other SOs as a place to hang between trips and vacations around the world, but that life style can get old quickly.

Something to keep in mind as well is that SO time at CX is with a P2X rating. It is basically a rating concocted by CX with the help of HKCAD that will keep SOs at CX because the rating doesn't allow you to even log P2/SIC time in the jet. You can only log P2X time. Now, some airlines throughout the world might take the widebody time as SIC time if you log it that way. Remember too that your "flying" as an SO will consist of doing cruise paperwork and radio work while the captain or relief FO spins the heading bug.

Bottom line, if you wind up in HKG as a SO as a youngster without housing allowance, you can do your time as an SO take your upgrade to FO and then try and get a basing back in the US where your package will be identical to every other pilot in the same rank in the US. On the other hand, the HK Aircrew Officer Assoc (HKAOA), the in house union, are currently trying to up the package for cadet entry pilots. If that happens in the future then you are laughing as you have just gotten into CX in your low 20s and will be a widebody captain by 35 (historically speaking).

Go in with your eyes wide open

-400 FO

4everfo what is the upgrade time to F/O from S/O at the moment?? Also F/O to Captain, thanks.

4everFO
05-13-2010, 10:09 AM
SO to Junior FO is almost 4 years and increasing everyday. Senior most SO was hired in the summer (August I think) of 2006. The company has just announced a updated plan to upgrade 42 SOs to FO by the end of the year. Old plan called for 0. SO it may come down a bit but plan on 4 years.

FO to CN is tougher to tell. I will say that the junior most passenger CN in HKG is just over 900 on the seniority list out of approx. 2450 total pilots. There are alot of freighter only CNs junior to that but there aren't going to be anymore freighter "out of seniority upgrades". I believe when we were going full tilt on the expansion side we were upgrading around 75-100 passenger CNs per year...none this year though.

all subject to change as soon as this message is posted.

FO

atpcliff
05-13-2010, 11:10 AM
Hi!

What's happening to the poolies? I know 2 of them...

cliff
LFW

Sioux115
05-13-2010, 05:06 PM
Definitely take the opportunity to interview and see if CX is a fit. I interviewed in Aug. 08 for a DESO and have been sitting in the hold file ever since. Little frustrating watching Cadet pilots continued to be hired while I'm waiting until 2012 for Direct Entry recruitment to start again. Probably won't even be a DESO program in 2012, and I don't blame them if they can find enough pilots to fill the cadet slots.

I hear rumors that the DESO poolies can be reassessed as DEFO's if they are competitive. So I guess thats something to look forward to.

marcal
05-13-2010, 05:18 PM
There are alot of freighter only CNs junior to that but there aren't going to be anymore freighter "out of seniority upgrades".

FO


What is it with guys saying commands were not in seniority order? Anyone in seniority order could have bid those positions. They chose not to for personal reasons, most likely being the fact that it was grossly underpaid and would result in a pay cut for most FO's. The only thing that has changed is that now we just have captains on one scale. That, theoretically should have more 'senior' guys bid the left seat. Wake up CX pilots. Upgrades have always been 'in order'. Most everyone though chose not to bid it. Guys with 1, 2, 3 yrs did.

ERJF15
05-13-2010, 05:28 PM
So, can you still come to the company as an FO?

jsfBoat
05-15-2010, 11:39 AM
I'm filling out the app for the cadet pilot program, any advice on the proper way to fill it out so I can get a call? This is where I want to end up at anyways.

ryguy
05-15-2010, 04:03 PM
I think we will have to start hiring within a year as well. We are short on the NAM 744, especially relief. My last two crossings have been with SOs. They are working my arse off lately. I spoke to recruiting and they have not fully decided how they are going to handle the guys sitting on hired letters. They did say that they will have to come back to HKG for a new medical exam and possibly a short interview.

Hopefully it is all looking up.

LMEN
05-15-2010, 07:20 PM
Hi All,

I am new to this forum. I will be graduating from Purdue University in December of this year, and just yesterday was contacted by Cathay Pacific, to interview for a position of Second Officer via the Cadet Pilot route. It appears they will pay for everything, and in 12 months, I will be a second officer on a widebody. Now, before I am told to use the search function, I have. I have looked all over this forum, PPrune's Fragrant Harbor site, and I have exhausted all web resources. Do we have any Cathay Employees on this board? Does anybody know if its really that bad? Currently I have north of 500 hours, and 200 of that is instruction. Right now, It looks like regionals might be an option, but a self made time line has me becoming FO in 5 years, on Cathay. In the very least, I would be building heavy jet, xc time, and getting international experience.

What are your thought?

Thanks!
This is a no brainer!!! DO IT!!!

The Dominican
05-15-2010, 10:48 PM
just yesterday was contacted by Cathay Pacific, to interview for a position of Second Officer


You are not at the decision making stage just yet, you have only been invited to an interview and since you have read the different threads on CX you are well aware that the interview failure rate is pretty high. Now if you do get an offer, then you examine all the aspects of employment with CX because there is a lot more than just the"shiny new heavy jets" remember that this job will come with company culture, life in HK, ex pat life style etc. all this things will weigh very heavy if you are not happy and at 500TT you are at the crawling stage in your career so don't feel like you should jump to the running stage just yet. Interview first, go spend a few days in HK and try getting a sense of what is really like living and working there, seek the CX guys out and try to get the good, bad and the ugly. The Aviator's in Tung Chung is a good place to get some info, it is a popular watering whole to hear the long haul blues.

Good luck to you, you got a long career ahead of you so try to make decisions based on passion and information, rather than passion alone.

ryguy
05-15-2010, 11:50 PM
You are not at the decision making stage just yet, you have only been invited to an interview and since you have read the different threads on CX you are well aware that the interview failure rate is pretty high. Now if you do get an offer, then you examine all the aspects of employment with CX because there is a lot more than just the"shiny new heavy jets" remember that this job will come with company culture, life in HK, ex pat life style etc. all this things will weigh very heavy if you are not happy and at 500TT you are at the crawling stage in your career so don't feel like you should jump to the running stage just yet. Interview first, go spend a few days in HK and try getting a sense of what is really like living and working there, seek the CX guys out and try to get the good, bad and the ugly. The Aviator's in Tung Chung is a good place to get some info, it is a popular watering whole to hear the long haul blues.

Good luck to you, you got a long career ahead of you so try to make decisions based on passion and information, rather than passion alone.

This is OUTSTANDING advice...take it to heart.

cruiseclimb
05-16-2010, 02:53 PM
My first flying assignment in the Navy was 3 1/2 years of flying out of Japan. It was an amazing experience.. but at the end I came home. CX will be a career job which may mean a lifetime in HK.. The previous posts are correct.. weigh it heavily... I think you should go for it personally, but with eyes wide open.

fatbus
05-17-2010, 05:06 AM
Not to change the subject , but for those considering the sand pit, THE DOMINICAN's advice is very good,"same same but different"

4everFO
05-18-2010, 05:22 AM
What is it with guys saying commands were not in seniority order? Anyone in seniority order could have bid those positions. They chose not to for personal reasons, most likely being the fact that it was grossly underpaid and would result in a pay cut for most FO's. The only thing that has changed is that now we just have captains on one scale. That, theoretically should have more 'senior' guys bid the left seat. Wake up CX pilots. Upgrades have always been 'in order'. Most everyone though chose not to bid it. Guys with 1, 2, 3 yrs did.

Hence the sarcastic quotes.

FO

PCLCREW
05-18-2010, 07:42 PM
Hi All,

I am new to this forum. I will be graduating from Purdue University in December of this year, and just yesterday was contacted by Cathay Pacific, to interview for a position of Second Officer via the Cadet Pilot route. It appears they will pay for everything, and in 12 months, I will be a second officer on a widebody. Now, before I am told to use the search function, I have. I have looked all over this forum, PPrune's Fragrant Harbor site, and I have exhausted all web resources. Do we have any Cathay Employees on this board? Does anybody know if its really that bad? Currently I have north of 500 hours, and 200 of that is instruction. Right now, It looks like regionals might be an option, but a self made time line has me becoming FO in 5 years, on Cathay. In the very least, I would be building heavy jet, xc time, and getting international experience.

What are your thought?

Thanks!


Ya and there is about 200 people in the pool waiting for a call for an FO position, and some of us would gladly take an SO position. but instead they are going to hire 500hr people.
I just dont get that sh**

Good luck anyway.

4everFO
05-21-2010, 10:59 AM
Ya and there is about 200 people in the pool waiting for a call for an FO position, and some of us would gladly take an SO position. but instead they are going to hire 500hr people.
I just dont get that sh**

Good luck anyway.

What don't you understand? The cadets are cheaper than the direct entry pilots....no housing, education, or repatriation costs. Airline management is the same almost everywhere...bottom line is the most important thing. Plus it is almost 2 years from starting the cadet course to being checked to the line as an SO. Oh yeah, most of the cadets have 0 flight time.

I have heard recently that all of the pilots that were successful in the interview process but did not start with CX will have to be re-assessed. Don't know if that means another full process or something shorter.

FO

atpcliff
05-22-2010, 06:23 AM
Hi!

So, guys who were "hired" and in the pool, are no longer? The pool is drained, and they will have to be re-assessed???

Thanx!

cliff
LFW

ERJF15
05-22-2010, 06:32 AM
With airlines, CX, what exactly does "repatriation" or "expatriate" mean? I know the true definition, but what does this have to do with working for CX?

myoface
05-22-2010, 07:45 AM
I am in the pool (FO) and been told that when and if the time comes we MAY have to be reassessed. No more info than that.

4everFO
05-22-2010, 03:28 PM
With airlines, CX, what exactly does "repatriation" or "expatriate" mean? I know the true definition, but what does this have to do with working for CX?

Same thing that they mean with any other expat job. Applies to HKG based guys that were not hired as cadets.

FO

ERJF15
05-22-2010, 06:24 PM
Same thing that they mean with any other expat job. Applies to HKG based guys that were not hired as cadets.

FO

Thanks for not answering my question...never heard of expat jobs.

Kenny
05-22-2010, 07:08 PM
An "expat" is a person of one nationality, living and working in another country or nation.

ERJF15
05-22-2010, 08:58 PM
An "expat" is a person of one nationality, living and working in another country or nation.

Kwool thanks

chignutsak
05-22-2010, 11:00 PM
Thanks for not answering my question...never heard of expat jobs.

Wow. I Googled expat and it found the answer in .13 seconds. Try it some time.

ERJF15
05-23-2010, 05:56 AM
Wow. I Googled expat and it found the answer in .13 seconds. Try it some time.


You can try to get off of my [email protected]%s :D

SUX4U
05-23-2010, 09:28 AM
You can try to get off of my [email protected]%s :D

Who let you out of the regional forums?!?

ERJF15
05-23-2010, 06:47 PM
Who let you out of the regional forums?!?


My mommy said I can come out to play :p

PurpleCRJ
05-26-2010, 02:18 PM
Hi All,

I am new to this forum. I will be graduating from Purdue University in December of this year, and just yesterday was contacted by Cathay Pacific, to interview for a position of Second Officer via the Cadet Pilot route. It appears they will pay for everything, and in 12 months, I will be a second officer on a widebody. Now, before I am told to use the search function, I have. I have looked all over this forum, PPrune's Fragrant Harbor site, and I have exhausted all web resources. Do we have any Cathay Employees on this board? Does anybody know if its really that bad? Currently I have north of 500 hours, and 200 of that is instruction. Right now, It looks like regionals might be an option, but a self made time line has me becoming FO in 5 years, on Cathay. In the very least, I would be building heavy jet, xc time, and getting international experience.

What are your thought?

Thanks!


So, if you graduate the cadet program, SO's don't get the 36G/yr housing allowance? That really sucks. But maybe you do get it if you are an expat from the cadet program (which I take it there have not been many of)?

Either way, if you can punch your ticket to the CX career, you're done looking for work - you win. The Dominican's advice is on point; but I'd like to give you a little more of a green light. I've gotta think that if you want to be an international pilot, you probably have at least a vague understanding of cultural diversity; therefore I'd bet you can at least "deal with" Hong Kong for even 5 years, get based in the US, and you've got it made. FO on a 747 for CX based in the US at age 30? Oh yeah, I'd take that package. And it's likely you'll find Hong Kong more than tolerable.

At a regional in the US you might get 1000 PIC Turbine in 5 years if you're lucky. But, then you've got to get an interview and get hired somewhere still. Chances are, you'd be looking for a job just like that CX FO 747 one mentioned above that you could've already had locked down. Just getting an interview for a great job like that is virtually impossible these days unless you know someone on the hiring board. That's why you see some of these :mad: on this thread.

IndyAir Guy
05-28-2010, 11:39 AM
I was hired by CX as an FO two and a half years ago and love it. Most of the SO's I know like their schedules and only work less than 10 days a month.

Cadets of any type (international or local) dont get housing. The cadets are working with the Union to get that changed and they have made their unhappiness about this known to the company. My opinion is that housing for cadets may change in a few to many years from now. But know one really knows.

I worked my way up to CX via the regionals, then long haul cargo. If I had the opportunity to go to CX as a cadet at the age of 25 verse an FO at 38 I would have done it in a second. I just flew with a Senior Check Captain on the B-777 who is 35 and he was a cadet.

Quality of life: there is no better place in the world to be young and single then Hong Kong. Yes housing is expensive but get an apartment with your classmates and then move back to the States when your older. It beats being a regional FO living in a crash pad in Newark for 30K a year.

Five Green
06-05-2010, 05:20 PM
Cathay poised to place order for widebodies
By Leithen Francis ([email protected])

Cathay Pacific Airways will shatter Airbus's A380 sales aspirations as it prepares for a widebody buying spree, with deals for long-range twinjets but no near-term plans to order the superjumbo.

The Hong Kong airline, which is a major Boeing 747 operator, has long been a target for Airbus's A380 salesmen. However, according to industry sources a request for proposals issued by Cathay in November centred on Airbus A330/A350s and Boeing 777/787s.

The airline is expected to finalise these orders this year, with one source suggesting that a decision will be made in June, ahead of the northern summer holidays.

Cathay chief executive Tony Tyler declines to comment on the RFP, citing commercial and confidentiality reasons, but confirms the airline "is evaluating new-generation Airbus A350 and Boeing 787 aircraft"

The Oneworld carrier needs new widebodies to cater for market growth and allow it to phase out older aircraft, say the sources. The carrier has also said publicly it wants to retire its ageing 777-200s although Tyler says the phase-out will not begin this year.

Cathay operates 20 747-400s, some of which are more than 20 years old, and Airbus and Boeing have been trying hard to secure deals to replace them with A380s or 747-8Is.

The airline was involved in the A380 programme from the start, taking part in early A3XX customer focus group meetings 15 years ago. Airbus remains bullish about the role that Cathay's main base will play in the ultra-large aircraft sector, forecasting that Hong Kong will be the largest hub for such aircraft over the next 20 years.

The airline is already a customer for the cargo version of the 747-8, with 10 on order, but industry sources say Cathay has no near-term interest in ordering ultra-large passenger widebodies. One option could be to streamline its fleet by adding more 777-300ERs to replace the 747-400s.

Cathay already has a large A330-300 and 777-300ER fleet, with Flightglobal's ACAS database showing 32 and 17 aircraft, respectively. Orders for eight A330-300s and 13 777-300ERs (plus six options) are held. Deliveries of the A330s will start at year-end and conclude in 2013, says Cathay, when the last of the firm -300ER orders are also due.


Couple this news with the fact that crews are being run hard with no relief in sight and I think something should be happening soon.

I know I run the risk of handing out false hope but I think more DEFOs will be needed sooner rather than later. While much of the focus the past two years has been on cadet recruitment CX has never stopped accepting DEFO applications.

Those intersted should submit or update their apps in case the window opens.

4everFO
06-06-2010, 08:24 AM
Long term, yes we will need to hopefully hire a ton of pilots. Remember though that if this massive wide body order comes to light there are a few things to consider:

1. Delivery slots will more than likely be a couple or more years away.
2. How many jets are destined to wear the Dragonair (KA) livery.
3. What will the outcome of the SO by pass pay case be. (if the company loses the appeal, they have to assess all 250+ SOs before they can hire a FO).

I have heard that the order, if placed, will double the current fleet.

FO

uspilot
06-06-2010, 07:09 PM
Swire, Haeco Halted on Transaction Statements; Cathay Suspended
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A
By Wendy Leung and Kyunghee Park

June 7 (Bloomberg) -- Swire Pacific Ltd. and affiliate Hong Kong Aircraft Engineering Co. halted their shares from trading in the city pending statements related to takeovers and mergers.

Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd., an affiliate of Swire and Haeco, also suspended its stock ahead of a “price sensitive” announcement. The Hong Kong-based companies gave no further details in their stock exchange statements today and didn’t say whether the suspensions were related.

Cathay Pacific in September agreed to sell a HK$1.9 billion ($244 million) stake in Haeco to Swire, its largest shareholder, boosting cash holdings amid plunging travel demand. The airline still has a 15 percent stake in Haeco, Hong Kong’s largest airplane maintenance provider, while Swire owns 46 percent, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

“There is a possibility that the remaining shares may be sold,” said Kelvin Lau, a Hong Kong-based analyst at Daiwa Institute of Research. “Swire may want Cathay to focus more on the airline business.”

Swire owns 42 percent of Cathay Pacific, Hong Kong’s largest airline.

Cindy Cheung, a spokeswoman for Swire, and Carolyn Leung, a Cathay spokeswoman, declined to comment. A call to Haeco went unanswered.

Swire and Haeco both said they would make announcements “pursuant to the Hong Kong Code on Takeovers and Mergers.”

To contact the reporters on this story: Wendy Leung in Hong Kong at [email protected]; Kyunghee Park in Hong Kong at [email protected]

Last Updated: June 6, 2010 22:20 EDT

Five Green
06-10-2010, 11:20 AM
Long term, yes we will need to hopefully hire a ton of pilots. Remember though that if this massive wide body order comes to light there are a few things to consider:

1. Delivery slots will more than likely be a couple or more years away.
2. How many jets are destined to wear the Dragonair (KA) livery.
3. What will the outcome of the SO by pass pay case be. (if the company loses the appeal, they have to assess all 250+ SOs before they can hire a FO).

I have heard that the order, if placed, will double the current fleet.

FO

Good points all 4everFO. However, I do think that we are no longer overstaffed and we are now fast approaching the other end of the spectrum. I expect that the company will offer a deal to the majority of the SOs so as to meet their demand for expansion while minimizing their training burden. As we know Cathay always gets what it wants.

In any case, for those in the pool and for prospective DEFOs it's looking more promising now than any time in the last three years.

moondriver232
06-11-2010, 11:40 PM
Sorry, but I must be over the hill. A Second Officer was a flight engineer when I was one. And in a world where there are no more flight engineers, what kind of job is it that your are being offered? I hate to think someone would actually be recruiting you for an f.e. job, because that is a dead end position nowadays.

myoface
06-12-2010, 12:00 AM
SO=guy that sits there during cruise and makes sure the plane does what it is supposed to do while the Capt or FO are sleeping.

moondriver232
06-12-2010, 12:11 AM
Aha, thank you. Boy, I have been out of the loop as a 737 driver. We don't even think about such things.
Hmm, a relief pilot. Well, if they are going to pay for you to get a type rating and you just sit on your a#s then what would you be trying to figure out?

...Unless of course it's whether or not you want to live a much shorter life as a long-haul pilot. Just bear in mind that the stats are not in your favor. Long haul pilots suffer from a wide range of health problems, just like fat old truckers do.
...The life is very unhealthy, you are always out of time zone, never get good sleep, eat lots of airline food, don't exercise regularly. Up to you, though.

IndyAir Guy
06-12-2010, 10:58 AM
Aha, thank you. Boy, I have been out of the loop as a 737 driver. We don't even think about such things.
Hmm, a relief pilot. Well, if they are going to pay for you to get a type rating and you just sit on your a#s then what would you be trying to figure out?

...Unless of course it's whether or not you want to live a much shorter life as a long-haul pilot. Just bear in mind that the stats are not in your favor. Long haul pilots suffer from a wide range of health problems, just like fat old truckers do.
...The life is very unhealthy, you are always out of time zone, never get good sleep, eat lots of airline food, don't exercise regularly. Up to you, though.

Mr. Moon, having done both I have a different view and I very much prefer long haul. The one leg I fly every 5 days is a lot less stressful then the 3-5 a day a short haul guy does.

How healthy your life is, is based on the decisions you make. Our passenger trips are very easy to stay on your home time zone.
If you stay away from the ice cream, chocolate cake, and only eat one crew meal per flight your good. When you get to your layover have a social drink, go to bed, go to the gym, and go to work. Stay away from the wings and pizza. Get some rest, dont go chasing LBFMs all night.

I flew long haul freight and made some bad decisions about how I ate and what I did. I gained lots of weight and it can be very unhealthy. You just have to be strong about your commitments and whats important.

SO's have the best lifestyles in the company. Their job isnt difficult and its a good opportunity to learn. They usually work 8-10 days a month, often in a row and have the rest of the time off. Most of them take advantage of the travel benefits and go all over South East Asia surfing, sailing, or biking.

I will say this about short haul, I enjoyed the flying more. However, I am at the point where time off and money is the most important to me and for me long haul is better.

Flyby1206
06-12-2010, 12:17 PM
Any updates on expat hiring for DESO? Or is it still cadets only?

atpcliff
06-12-2010, 05:37 PM
Hi!

DEFO hiring has started:

Cathay Pacific - Careers : Careers Home (http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/careers/flying/fo)

cliff
LFW

uspilot
06-12-2010, 06:44 PM
That page has been up for years....They never took it dowm...So it doesn't mean they will be hiring....But I did see they are looking for Sim Instructors...They had taken that one down 1 year ago.

4everFO
06-13-2010, 07:13 AM
Not hiring, never stopped taking applications.

FO

Ronin47
06-26-2010, 08:48 AM
Hey "Boeing my way"...I tried to PM you but the Admin. stipulates you need 25 or more posts to PM...so hear we go anyway.
I have read many of your posts and was wondering if you wouldnt mind a couple of questions?
I just updated my app again with "Sonny" in Recruiting. Talked with him on the phone last week. Said no hiring of DEFOs till late 2011. I was called in 08' but couldnt accept the interview offer at that time...then the economy dropped out.
1. I understand your US based...where and how long have you been with CX? What fleet did you bid on?, what aircraft can you bid as a new hire?1a. With the intergration of all senority and fleets what is typcial upgrade time for a new DEFO starting in 2011? Can you bid or request the frieighters if successful in the hiring process?
2. I understand there is a basic monthly salary- what are the hourly rates for FOs?..is this on top of monthly gaurantees?
3. I understand Cathay has around 100 birds and around 20, 74 Freighters...are they still planning on recieving 10, 74-8s and 11 +(6 options) 74-ERFs in the next couple of yrs?
3. Is retirement 65 now with new contract?
4. Cathay takes out 15% of you pay for retirement...at what interest and where does it go? Banks? Escrow? Bonds? 401k?
5. What is a typical schedule for new hires...what about the Frieghter guys? 6 on 4 off?
6. How do you become an IP (Instructor Pilot)..how do you bid for it and what senority do you need? Thanks again sir...your a big help to "us" guys on the other side of the fence...I owe you a beer ...or sake...whatever is your poison.. :)
__________________
Always evaluate the situation.


FlyPurdue
US based CX pilot here. Check your PM's. Be happy to discuss the opportunity with CX.
Cheers!

Five Green
06-26-2010, 01:07 PM
Hey "Boeing my way"...I tried to PM you but the Admin. stipulates you need 25 or more posts to PM...so hear we go anyway.
I have read many of your posts and was wondering if you wouldnt mind a couple of questions?
I just updated my app again with "Sonny" in Recruiting. Talked with him on the phone last week. Said no hiring of DEFOs till late 2011. I was called in 08' but couldnt accept the interview offer at that time...then the economy dropped out.


I'll try to answer some of your questions. One thing to keep in mind is that there are many different sets of "Conditions of Service" (basically individual contracs) that are have been negotiated in the past. In many cases employees where given the option of retaining elements of their current conditions. This has led to a siginifact variety of working agreements depending on longevity and base area. I'll answer your questions as they would relate to a new joiner DEFO in the NAM base area on the CoS established in 2008. I'll save discussion of the HKG expat package for another post.

1. I understand your US based...where and how long have you been with CX? What fleet did you bid on?, what aircraft can you bid as a new hire?

You don't really bid on fleets at CX. In fact you don't bid for much of anything. Aircraft placement is dependent on manning and base requirements. It is not uncommon to be involuntarily converted (assigned and trained) to a new fleet type while on a base. There are some limited provisions for requesting a one time (in your career) fleet conversion or to bypass a conversion, but those are still at the discretion of the company and unlikely to help you on a base.

1a. With the intergration of all senority and fleets what is typcial upgrade time for a new DEFO starting in 2011?

Unless the company grows rapidly you're looking at some fairly long upgrade times. Ten plus if based in HKG and even longer on a base due to the limited slots.

Can you bid or request the frieighters if successful in the hiring process?

For new joiners there is no more 'freighter only flying'. If the initial conversion of on the 744/-8 then you fly pax and freight at the discretion of the company. In the case of the 744/-8, the type of flying you'll do is somewhat dependent on the base. I think most new DEFOs will be assigned to the 777.

2. I understand there is a basic monthly salary- what are the hourly rates for FOs?..is this on top of monthly gaurantees?

The rates on APC are pretty accurate except for year 4, that should read 7766. Ignore the freighter scales as they won't apply to new joiners. The hourly rate is simply your basic monthly salary/84. From this figure is derived additional flight hour pay of 7% or 14% credit depending on aircraft manning, additional hourly duty pay based on rank and hours, and overtime which is factored at 1.5 (84-91), 2.5 (92-100), and 3.5 (100+), all based on credit hours.

3. I understand Cathay has around 100 birds and around 20, 74 Freighters...are they still planning on recieving 10, 74-8s and 11 +(6 options) 74-ERFs in the next couple of yrs?

Aircraft orders aren't my strong point but no orders have been cancelled so I believe they remain as previously ordered.

3. Is retirement 65 now with new contract?

Yes.

4. Cathay takes out 15% of you pay for retirement...at what interest and where does it go? Banks? Escrow? Bonds? 401k?

They do not take out 15% as you say. Instead they take the sum of the base pay and all the credits and add 15%. This is CX's retirement contribution. You can elect to take it in cash or have it invested in a CX sponsored retirement scheme. However, note that this is not a IRS recongnized retirement plan and some serious issues regarding taxation remain as to how this income will be treated once the fund is fully vested (10 years). Due to this fact and the limited fund investment and managment options many just elect to take the contribution in cash.

5. What is a typical schedule for new hires...what about the Frieghter guys? 6 on 4 off?

This is difficult to answer due to the inherent imbalances throughout the fleets and bases but typically the 777 based pilots have the best schedules, often flying just three 3-day trips a month. Freighter patterns are a bit tougher in that the trips can be 7-10 days long but eventually you'll makeup for it on the back end with a week or more off. Everyone gets 6 weeks of yeary leave (vacation) starting from on dayone. In any case, if you need any recurrent training expect a very long trip due to the rest requirement while in HKG.

6. How do you become an IP (Instructor Pilot)..how do you bid for it and what senority do you need?

This is a somewhat ambitious undertaking at CX. I don't know much about the process but I do know it is somewhat political and selection is difficult. Must be a qualified captain and express interest in joining the department. Recently all new Training Captains must be HKG based.

Good luck.

Ronin47
06-26-2010, 02:00 PM
I'll try to answer some of your questions. One thing to keep in mind is that there are many different sets of "Conditions of Service" (basically individual contracs) that are have been negotiated in the past. In many cases employees where given the option of retaining elements of their current conditions. This has led to a siginifact variety of working agreements depending on longevity and base area. I'll answer your questions as they would relate to a new joiner DEFO in the NAM base area on the CoS established in 2008. I'll save discussion of the HKG expat package for another post.



You don't really bid on fleets at CX. In fact you don't bid for much of anything. Aircraft placement is dependent on manning and base requirements. It is not uncommon to be involuntarily converted (assigned and trained) to a new fleet type while on a base. There are some limited provisions for requesting a one time (in your career) fleet conversion or to bypass a conversion, but those are still at the discretion of the company and unlikely to help you on a base.



Unless the company grows rapidly you're looking at some fairly long upgrade times. Ten plus if based in HKG and even longer on a base due to the limited slots.



For new joiners there is no more 'freighter only flying'. If the initial conversion of on the 744/-8 then you fly pax and freight at the discretion of the company. In the case of the 744/-8, the type of flying you'll do is somewhat dependent on the base. I think most new DEFOs will be assigned to the 777.



The rates on APC are pretty accurate except for year 4, that should read 7766. Ignore the freighter scales as they won't apply to new joiners. The hourly rate is simply your basic monthly salary/84. From this figure is derived additional flight hour pay of 7% or 14% credit depending aircraft manning, additional hourly duty pay based on rank and hours, and overtime which is factored at 1.5 (84-91), 2.5 (92-100), and 3.5 (100+), all based on credit hours.



Aircraft orders aren't my strong point but no orders have been cancelled so I believe they remain as previously ordered.



Yes.



They do not take out 15% as you say. Instead they take the sum of the base pay and all the credits and add 15%. This is CX's retirement contribution. You can elect to take it in cash or have it invested in a CX sponsored retirement scheme. However, note that this is not a IRS recongnized retirement plan and some serious issues regarding taxation remain as to how this income will be treated once the fund is fully vested (10 years). Due to this fact and the limited fund investment and managment options many just elect to take the contribution in cash.



This is difficult to answer due to the inherent imbalances throughout the fleets and bases but typically the 777 based pilots have the best schedules, often flying just three 3-day trips a month. Freighter patterns are a bit tougher in that the trips can be 7-10 days long but eventually you'll makeup for it on the back end with a week or more off. Everyone gets 6 weeks of yeary leave (vacation) starting from on dayone. In any case, if you need any recurrent training expect a very long trip due to the rest requirement while in HKG.



This is a somewhat ambitious undertaking at CX. I don't know much about the process but I do know it is somewhat political and selection is difficult. Must be a qualified captain and express interest in joining the department. Recently all new Training Captains must be HKG based.

Good luck.
Hello FiveGreen...thank you very much for your time and cander in answering all of my questions. Much appreciated. One question for you if you dont mind? How long have you been with CX and where are you based...are you on reserve..if so how long? Thanks again.

Five Green
06-26-2010, 07:20 PM
Hello FiveGreen...thank you very much for your time and cander in answering all of my questions. Much appreciated. One question for you if you dont mind? How long have you been with CX and where are you based...are you on reserve..if so how long? Thanks again.

My pleasure Ronin. I'd prefer not to state my base or longevity. There aren't that many flight crew in NAM and we're spread out through several bases so it wouldn't take much to narrow it down to a few people, I'd rather remain completely anonymous.

Regarding reserve, like everything else at Cathay this is run differently. Reserve lines or schedules don't exist. Neither is reserve call out based on seniority or any other kind of priority. Reserve is spread out among the entire pilot group, regardless of longevity. Each individual is assigned a few days of reserve, typicaly at the front end of a pattern (trip or pairing). NAM based pilots are normally assigned long call reserve unless they choose to volunteer for short call reserve.

In regards to schedules, there are some provisions for requesting specific days off and some lifestyle requests. Aside from that you don't see the rosters until they are published. It's not even a preferential bidding system, you just get what they give you. The only advantage is that the rosters are published early in the month.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

uspilot
06-26-2010, 08:45 PM
Hey "Boeing my way"...I tried to PM you but the Admin. stipulates you need 25 or more posts to PM...so hear we go anyway.
I have read many of your posts and was wondering if you wouldnt mind a couple of questions?
I just updated my app again with "Sonny" in Recruiting. Talked with him on the phone last week. Said no hiring of DEFOs till late 2011. I was called in 08' but couldnt accept the interview offer at that time...then the economy dropped out.
1. I understand your US based...where and how long have you been with CX? What fleet did you bid on?, what aircraft can you bid as a new hire?1a. With the intergration of all senority and fleets what is typcial upgrade time for a new DEFO starting in 2011? Can you bid or request the frieighters if successful in the hiring process?
2. I understand there is a basic monthly salary- what are the hourly rates for FOs?..is this on top of monthly gaurantees?
3. I understand Cathay has around 100 birds and around 20, 74 Freighters...are they still planning on recieving 10, 74-8s and 11 +(6 options) 74-ERFs in the next couple of yrs?
3. Is retirement 65 now with new contract?
4. Cathay takes out 15% of you pay for retirement...at what interest and where does it go? Banks? Escrow? Bonds? 401k?
5. What is a typical schedule for new hires...what about the Frieghter guys? 6 on 4 off?
6. How do you become an IP (Instructor Pilot)..how do you bid for it and what senority do you need? Thanks again sir...your a big help to "us" guys on the other side of the fence...I owe you a beer ...or sake...whatever is your poison.. :)
__________________
Always evaluate the situation.

Somthing to think about.

There are 40 to 50 DEFO hired and are in the Hold Pool...So if they start hiring late 2011 they will call those guys first....So I think they will start interviewing late 2012 or even 2013.....Than again things could change overnight....I am sure someone with more info will chime in. Good Luck....

Ronin47
06-27-2010, 04:12 AM
My pleasure Ronin. I'd prefer not to state my base or longevity. There aren't that many flight crew in NAM and we're spread out through several bases so it wouldn't take much to narrow it down to a few people, I'd rather remain completely anonymous.

Regrading reserve, like everything else at Cathay this is run differently. Reserve lines or schedules don't exist. Neither is reserve call out based on seniority or any other kind of priority. Reserve is spread out among the entire pilot group, regardless of longevity. Each individual is assigned a few days of reserve, typicaly at the front end of a pattern (trip or pairing). NAM based pilots are normally assigned long call reserve unless they choose to volunteer for short call reserve.

In regards to schedules, there are some provisions for requesting specific days off and some lifestyle requests. Aside from that you don't see the rosters until they are published. It's not even a preferential bidding system, you just get what the give you. The only advantage is that the rosters are published early in the month.

Hope this helps. Good luck.
I understand and respect your reasoning to stay "under the radar". Thanks again for your info. I may PM you at a later time as 2011 gets closer and CX decides to hire again.

Ronin47
06-27-2010, 04:21 AM
Somthing to think about.

There are 40 to 50 DEFO hired and are in the Hold Pool...So if they start hiring late 2011 they will call those guys first....So I think they will start interviewing late 2012 or even 2013.....Than again things could change overnight....I am sure someone with more info will chime in. Good Luck....
I did not know that...thanks in advance Uspilot. How many of those guys/gals are still in that pool?? Have they moved on? Who knows I guess eh. Thanks again...good info to know.

Sioux115
06-27-2010, 07:53 AM
Not to mention the 40-50 DESO in the hold file which have the option for re-assessment as DEFO if they meet the mins.

uspilot
06-27-2010, 10:36 AM
I did not know that...thanks in advance Uspilot. How many of those guys/gals are still in that pool?? Have they moved on? Who knows I guess eh. Thanks again...good info to know.

I wish I knew....Maybe Five Green will chime in...

Photon
06-27-2010, 04:51 PM
If you're a licensed pilot jaa/faa with 800 hours (me), do you even qualify for the cadet program, or just DESO?

IndyAir Guy
06-28-2010, 09:06 AM
I agree with everything Five Green says in regards to CX. Of the 5 airlines that I have flown at, CX has the best quality of life and pay. They have always treated me fairly as far as large bureaucracies go. I would strongly recommend employment here but NOT to everyone. You must be adaptable, flexible, and forget everything about how things work at other companies.

I expect an opportunity to upgrade to occur between 10-15 years. However this is an upgrade on a wide body, in that respect its rather fast. A few years before that I will bid back to HKG to do more flying and get "current" since in North America we fly so little. Upgrade isn't easy and requires a lot of work and effort.

DashGirl
06-29-2010, 03:01 PM
I have a question sort of off topic but on CX..I know very little about working for a foreign carrier so I'm wondering..If at some point in the future I get my 1000 TPIC and get hired there..do I get a type rating that the FAA recognizes?

myoface
06-29-2010, 07:09 PM
You get a Hong Kong ATP and Type rating. I dont think the FAA will just transfer it to your FAA ATP unless you go take a checkride. Also, I dont think there are any expat females working there (if you are as your name implies, a female)

Five Green
06-29-2010, 08:54 PM
I have a question sort of off topic but on CX..I know very little about working for a foreign carrier so I'm wondering..If at some point in the future I get my 1000 TPIC and get hired there..do I get a type rating that the FAA recognizes?

Hello DashGirl,

There is much to consider before joining a foreign carrier. Your question is a good one. You do not receive a valid B744 FAA Type Rating. Your licenses will be converted to HKCAD standards, you get a HKG CAD medical and all ratings apply only to that license.

What a conversion to an FAA Type will require depends on the regional FSDO's interpretation. There is no clear answer for conversion. At the very least it would probably require a checkride to ATP standards administered by an ASI.


You get a Hong Kong ATP and Type rating. I dont think the FAA will just transfer it to your FAA ATP unless you go take a checkride. Also, I dont think there are any expat females working there (if you are as your name implies, a female)


There are in fact several expat female pilots working at Cathay and they are very well regarded. Two are captains.

myoface
06-30-2010, 02:32 AM
There are in fact several expat female pilots working at Cathay and they are very well regarded. Two are captains.

Green...very cool...was told differently awhile back. Good to know!

MD11
06-30-2010, 09:44 AM
A question for anybody:

Has any furloughed FAA(non-JAA) certificated pilots successfully gained employment with CX as a second officer?

Looking at the hiring mins, Cathay requires 1000 fixed and ATPL writtens completed.

Anybody have any knowledge or experience with this?

Thanks.

uspilot
06-30-2010, 09:57 AM
When I interview few years ago for DEFO we all had over 7000 total time....Few guys were there interviewing for DESO and I think most had 3000 to 5000 total time....a friend of mine who was A320 Capt is now a SO with CX and loves it....

Milk Man
06-30-2010, 01:25 PM
Yes can someone please explain the Second Officer duty. Do they often upgrade to First Officer and how long does that usually take. Would they hire someone outside the company to fill the FO position over a SO person who has been there longer. Im getting very interested about becoming an SO here. What is the pay? And the only SO duty is being a cruise pilot? Any ohter info would be greatly appreciated! Thank You

4everFO
06-30-2010, 02:53 PM
They do not take out 15% as you say. Instead they take the sum of the base pay and all the credits and add 15%. This is CX's retirement contribution. You can elect to take it in cash or have it invested in a CX sponsored retirement scheme. However, note that this is not a IRS recongnized retirement plan and some serious issues regarding taxation remain as to how this income will be treated once the fund is fully vested (10 years). Due to this fact and the limited fund investment and managment options many just elect to take the contribution in cash.

The provident fund contribution is 15.5% and is a percentage of the base salary only. Hourly duty pay, overtime, and qualification pay are not provident fundable. You can take this as cash in your monthly pay and it is then taxable and subject to with holding tax in the US.

FO.

SUX4U
06-30-2010, 06:20 PM
Please dont take this as being abbrasive, but for those asking about DESO info, do yourself a favor and do some research on current events regarding the position with Cathay before you get excited because you actually meet published minimum qualifications. The company has discovered a new way of saving costs on expat packages for SO's by recruiting world wide for Cadets to fill those positions on local terms (no housing/kids education, etc).

As much as I hate to suggest PPRUNE.ORG and its Fragrant Harbour Forum, one has much info to gain from the threads posted. I dont think I would be wrong to say the chance of getting a shot at a DESO slot in the next 3-5 years would be a long shot. To make matters a tad bit more challenging for SO hopefuls there are numerous guys still waiting in the hired pool. Not a real pretty picture when you take all factors into consideration. None the less, these are just my oppinions that I have formed from what I know. They dont mean anything, and it would be great to see my pessimistic view for hopefulls shattered!

Good luck guys!

Milk Man
06-30-2010, 06:53 PM
well crap....

Five Green
06-30-2010, 07:25 PM
The provident fund contribution is 15.5% and is a percentage of the base salary only. Hourly duty pay, overtime, and qualification pay are not provident fundable. You can take this as cash in your monthly pay and it is then taxable and subject to with holding tax in the US.

FO.

Yea, messed that one up. Thanks for catching it 4EFO.

Ronin47
07-01-2010, 03:36 AM
Yea, messed that one up. Thanks for catching it 4EFO.
For those Gents flying the line right now..what is the max amount of flying the company allows per month? Up to 114hrs? I understand you recieve additional pay over the 84hr. mark. Just curious if Cathay tends to keep "overtime" to a minimumm even if the company is "undercrewed? Also, with the 74-200 retired now-does anyone know if they still use the 74-200 sim for training or interviews? Or will they have new hire canidates go to the 74-400 sim? Anyone in the training department have any insight? Thanks Gents...

IndyAir Guy
07-01-2010, 09:27 AM
For those Gents flying the line right now..what is the max amount of flying the company allows per month? Up to 114hrs? I understand you recieve additional pay over the 84hr. mark. Just curious if Cathay tends to keep "overtime" to a minimumm even if the company is "undercrewed? Also, with the 74-200 retired now-does anyone know if they still use the 74-200 sim for training or interviews? Or will they have new hire canidates go to the 74-400 sim? Anyone in the training department have any insight? Thanks Gents...

Ronin, in an ideal world CX would build all the lines up to 84 hours, no more no less. As a North American based guy my lines never break 84 hours. I have only gotten overtime twice in my 2.5 years at CX and that was during my initial IOE and then on a conversion course to a different type. I know guys that have been here 5+ years and have never gotten overtime. Dont forget we dont bid. However, I know a lot of HKG based guys that get overtime all the time. If your on a fleet/base that is understaff then yes, you'll get overtime.

Type Ratings:
I know 1 guy who went to the FSDO and talked his way into having them convert his Hong Kong Type into an FAA type. I know A LOT of guys who tried and got told No way. If the wheels fall off the wagon and I find my self on the street I will just shell out the cast and hop in the sim and take the test with an examiner if I need it. Having been on the street looking for jobs I know that time in the plane is the most important thing, and it would have to be a really good job and very certain to get it for me to spend my own $$.

I couldnt sleep the other day and was in the -200 sim. So you its there and has power on it. Other than that I assume it works. Since we are not in a heavy recruitment phase I havent seen people using it but I would assume that it is still in recruitment use. They seem to be using the -400 for regular training so I dont think they will use that for recruitment.

Ronin47
07-01-2010, 10:29 AM
Ronin, in an ideal world CX would build all the lines up to 84 hours, no more no less. As a North American based guy my lines never break 84 hours. I have only gotten overtime twice in my 2.5 years at CX and that was during my initial IOE and then on a conversion course to a different type. I know guys that have been here 5+ years and have never gotten overtime. Dont forget we dont bid. However, I know a lot of HKG based guys that get overtime all the time. If your on a fleet/base that is understaff then yes, you'll get overtime.

Type Ratings:
I know 1 guy who went to the FSDO and talked his way into having them convert his Hong Kong Type into an FAA type. I know A LOT of guys who tried and got told No way. If the wheels fall off the wagon and I find my self on the street I will just shell out the cast and hop in the sim and take the test with an examiner if I need it. Having been on the street looking for jobs I know that time in the plane is the most important thing, and it would have to be a really good job and very certain to get it for me to spend my own $$.

I couldnt sleep the other day and was in the -200 sim. So you its there and has power on it. Other than that I assume it works. Since we are not in a heavy recruitment phase I havent seen people using it but I would assume that it is still in recruitment use. They seem to be using the -400 for regular training so I dont think they will use that for recruitment.
Thanks Indy...much appreciated. Are you LA based since your in the 777? How do you like CX so far after 2.5yrs? Would you or could you go to the freighter? I understand all fleets/senorities are combined now...for new hire DEFOs on the frieghter next year is it still a 10-15yr. upgrade on those freighters?

IndyAir Guy
07-01-2010, 12:59 PM
Thanks Indy...much appreciated. Are you LA based since your in the 777? How do you like CX so far after 2.5yrs? Would you or could you go to the freighter? I understand all fleets/senorities are combined now...for new hire DEFOs on the frieghter next year is it still a 10-15yr. upgrade on those freighters?

I like CX very much, best quality of life and money. Long haul isnt very much fun but thats long haul for you. Most of the guys are great, some are not but you get that at any place. I wouldnt say CX has more than its share of them.

With the new Conditions Of Service (COS '08) being specifically a "freighter" guy doesnt really exist. If your on the 74 you can fly both Pax, and freight. Its my understand that you now cant upgrade to "freight only" but rather upgrade to the 74 so there is no "quick" upgrades.

Upgrades, upgrades, upgrades... everyone wants to know how fast upgrades are. If you want to get to the left seat fast then go to Gulfstream International in Miami. If your coming from a regional or a US major where the starting pay is $33 and hour and no health care things are a little different here. Your starting at around $100,000 so there is no great rush to upgrade so you can afford a pizza. With long haul flying you dont fly that much so it take more time to get the experience that you would get in a few years in the short haul world. How long will it take me to upgrade? I cant honestly answer that since there are so many qualified guys ahead of my, the change of retirement age to 65, and I'm unable to predict growth. I dont think anyone can see more then 1 year out in this industry. In the mean time, I am very content to sit in the right seat.

ryguy
07-01-2010, 01:15 PM
I'm coming from a bit of a different perspective than Indy since I'm on the 744 and relief qualified. When the fleet changed over to the 777 out of LAX, they sent a lot of folks to the 777 and most if not all of them were relief command qual'd. Most of the folks left on the 744 are not in North America. What that means is I'm working a lot more than usual. I was actually rostered into overtime on the published roster for the first time since I've been here. That means they planned me to go to 92 hours before things started to go sideways during the roster month. I ended up with 99 and in the 90's again the next month.

Of course I am doing mostly freighter flying which tends to have much greater roster disruptions. Every month though I am right up against the 84 hour mark. For me though, as a commuter, I like the longer trips and greater days off in a row. I've looked at a lot of the 777 rosters in LA and while the trips are shorter, there seems to usually be two trips that are fairly close together. For me that would be bad since I don't want to commute for just 2 or three days at home.

As for Ronin's overtime question. They do guard it as much as they can. If they send you into overtime you can be certain they had no choice. If and when you get it, the pay is very good so they hate to give it out unless they are stuck.

Ronin47
07-01-2010, 01:38 PM
I'm coming from a bit of a different perspective than Indy since I'm on the 744 and relief qualified. When the fleet changed over to the 777 out of LAX, they sent a lot of folks to the 777 and most if not all of them were relief command qual'd. Most of the folks left on the 744 are not in North America. What that means is I'm working a lot more than usual. I was actually rostered into overtime on the published roster for the first time since I've been here. That means they planned me to go to 92 hours before things started to go sideways during the roster month. I ended up with 99 and in the 90's again the next month.

Of course I am doing mostly freighter flying which tends to have much greater roster disruptions. Every month though I am right up against the 84 hour mark. For me though, as a commuter, I like the longer trips and greater days off in a row. I've looked at a lot of the 777 rosters in LA and while the trips are shorter, there seems to usually be two trips that are fairly close together. For me that would be bad since I don't want to commute for just 2 or three days at home.

As for Ronin's overtime question. They do guard it as much as they can. If they send you into overtime you can be certain they had no choice. If and when you get it, the pay is very good so they hate to give it out unless they are stuck.
Thanks Ryguy and to all the CX gents that have answered my questions..great info. Looking forward to 2011 and a possible call. As I have stated before I was called back in 08' for DEFO but couldnt accept at the time (interview). I have updated many times since then and recruiting was very professional and accomodating on the phone. Thanks again...I will now drift back into obscurity.

4everFO
07-02-2010, 09:35 AM
The company has discovered a new way of saving costs on expat packages for SO's by recruiting world wide for Cadets to fill those positions on local terms (no housing/kids education, etc).


Locally employed pilots now get child educational assistance. Our association is pushing for full package, but will take a while since there is a lot on the table right now.

FO

4everFO
07-02-2010, 09:37 AM
I have only gotten overtime twice in my 2.5 years at CX and that was during my initial IOE and then on a conversion course to a different type. I know guys that have been here 5+ years and have never gotten overtime. Dont forget we dont bid. However, I know a lot of HKG based guys that get overtime all the time. If your on a fleet/base that is understaff then yes, you'll get overtime.


Just out of curiosity, how have you gotten a conversion to a new type if only been here 2.5 years? You LAX based?

FO

IndyAir Guy
07-02-2010, 11:14 AM
4Ever- I have not said my base, and do not wish to. The company offered the conversion and it was aworded on seniority.

4everFO
07-02-2010, 01:53 PM
4Ever- I have not said my base, and do not wish to. The company offered the conversion and it was aworded on seniority.

Just caught me by surprise because I have been here more than 4 years and could not get a 777 base. LAX went more than 3 years on the conversion courses offered...I think I know where you are based, hired on the 340?

You experiences in this company are a lot different than most other people hired as FOs....different as in you have had a seemingly better experience.

FO.

BoeingMyWay
07-02-2010, 02:52 PM
Sorry I havn't been on APC in a little while. Anyway, I believe FG answered most of the questions.
.
Some thoughts about Cathay as a career for those considering:

Remember, CX is a Hong Kong airline and although they maintain bases around the world, the perks of the job(i.e., housing, education allowances, 13th month extra pay, variety of flying) are only for HK based crew. While HK is a great city and has a lot to offer, it's not the USA and you will miss home. There are many guy's on a base that would not have taken the job if that wasn't the offer. There are also many guys in HK trying to get out...and yes, willing to give up the "perks". Other guys would leave HK tomorrow but can't give up the "perks".
Now, being on a base is great, even without the "perks". The biggest regret is the flying. One word to describe long-haul flying....BORING! There is nothing exciting about 14-16 hour flights over the vast Pacific or the North Pole. The first few times are fun, then it becomes old, real fast.
Yes, the schedules are hard to beat. PAX flying typically works out to 3 RT's per month. You will work base to HK and back to base. Every once in awhile, you will do some inter asia flying, but mostly just back n forth to HK. If it's all about time off, and it is for a lot of guys, then great....but if you still look up every time a plane flys overhead, then you will miss "flying" dearly. I used to do about 20-25 takeoffs/landings in a typical month. Now I do 1, maybe 2 per month. That makes staying current and proficient rather difficult.....and at CX, you better stay on your game or they will have no problem sending you packing.
Overall, if you want to go to and live in HK, then no hesitation. If you're only interested in a base, then be aware of what long-haul flying is really about and decide for yourself. It's not for everybody.

GreenTailWhale
07-02-2010, 04:00 PM
Great post BoeingMyWay.

IndyAir Guy
07-03-2010, 10:15 AM
4-Ever: you are correct, I think my experience with CX has been above average. Some times you get the bear and some times it gets you. I'm sure I'm due for my fair share of getting the short end of the stick.


BoeingMyWay: I would have to completely agree with your statements. It seems to me that people want what they can't have. A lot of the DEFOs on the base who can't go to HKG because of the base lock want to go and the guys in HKG who can't get a base want one.

Ronin47
07-03-2010, 10:53 AM
I'm coming from a bit of a different perspective than Indy since I'm on the 744 and relief qualified. When the fleet changed over to the 777 out of LAX, they sent a lot of folks to the 777 and most if not all of them were relief command qual'd. Most of the folks left on the 744 are not in North America. What that means is I'm working a lot more than usual. I was actually rostered into overtime on the published roster for the first time since I've been here. That means they planned me to go to 92 hours before things started to go sideways during the roster month. I ended up with 99 and in the 90's again the next month.

Of course I am doing mostly freighter flying which tends to have much greater roster disruptions. Every month though I am right up against the 84 hour mark. For me though, as a commuter, I like the longer trips and greater days off in a row. I've looked at a lot of the 777 rosters in LA and while the trips are shorter, there seems to usually be two trips that are fairly close together. For me that would be bad since I don't want to commute for just 2 or three days at home.

As for Ronin's overtime question. They do guard it as much as they can. If they send you into overtime you can be certain they had no choice. If and when you get it, the pay is very good so they hate to give it out unless they are stuck.
Hey Ry...just to follow up on a previous post. Since it seems alot of U.S. based pilots went to the 777, are the 74/U.S. guys understaffed? If so would the 74/Freighter out of ORD be an option for new hires with the 10 74-8's and the 11 74-BCF's on order?
Also, one more pay question...
APC says 1st. year FO is $6519.00 per month+(hourly)$400month?+%15 of 6519=$977.00? Soooo..$6519+400+977=$7896.00 per month once on-line...is that about right gents.for 1st year FO? And Im assuming it is just base salary while in training? Which is what 4months or so? Thanks in advance for any info. Just trying to pay the mortgage and raise the kids..lol

4everFO
07-03-2010, 12:44 PM
Hey Ry...just to follow up on a previous post. Since it seems alot of U.S. based pilots went to the 777, are the 74/U.S. guys understaffed? If so would the 74/Freighter out of ORD be an option for new hires with the 10 74-8's and the 11 74-BCF's on order?
Also, one more pay question...
APC says 1st. year FO is $6519.00 per month+(hourly)$400month?+%15 of 6519=$977.00? Soooo..$6519+400+977=$7896.00 per month once on-line...is that about right gents.for 1st year FO? And Im assuming it is just base salary while in training? Which is what 4months or so? Thanks in advance for any info. Just trying to pay the mortgage and raise the kids..lol

ORD is the most "senior" base in the US, but with the around the world freighter trips starting the rumor is that more spots in ORD will become available. When is anyones guess. No more BCFs on order just the -8s, 777s and 330s. JFK and possibly LAX would be more likely for new hires, opening of a MIA base would create some movement though.

I am not exactly sure of the pay scales but first year FO based in the US with everything included would pull down between 85-100 starting from day on in training. You get all the duty pay and retirement money from date of joining. Training also gets you about 500 US dollars a week in allowances, plus any allowances when you layover during training (except if you get back to your home base).

FO

GreenTailWhale
07-03-2010, 12:48 PM
$400 for the hourly is a tad bit low. About $550-$600 would be closer for FO 1-4 on average. This is obviously without any over time, which starts at credit hours in excess of 84. At SFO 1 hourly rates increase.

GreenTailWhale
07-03-2010, 12:54 PM
I agree with 4everFO, first year FO pay in the US would be around $8500-$9000 Gross. With a Canadian base it would be about $800-$1000 more.

ryguy
07-03-2010, 01:01 PM
Hey Ry...just to follow up on a previous post. Since it seems alot of U.S. based pilots went to the 777, are the 74/U.S. guys understaffed? If so would the 74/Freighter out of ORD be an option for new hires with the 10 74-8's and the 11 74-BCF's on order?
Also, one more pay question...
APC says 1st. year FO is $6519.00 per month+(hourly)$400month?+%15 of 6519=$977.00? Soooo..$6519+400+977=$7896.00 per month once on-line...is that about right gents.for 1st year FO? And Im assuming it is just base salary while in training? Which is what 4months or so? Thanks in advance for any info. Just trying to pay the mortgage and raise the kids..lol

Hey Ronin,

If we are going to be short that is where it will be. It is hard to say though since to me we seem to be short but maybe not on total pilots on the fleet. Where we are understaffed is relief qualified FOs on the 744. I'm not sure how that translates to total FOs though. I will say that I've been flying with a lot of Second Officers lately which we hardly ever used to see on the freighter. I personally think we will see hiring before the official line says.

That pay projection is probably pretty close. Which is quite a bit higher than the old freighter scale was when I started. In training you get full regular pay, allowances (our version of per diem), retirement contribution, and hourly duty pay when you start flying on LFUS (our version of IOE). In other words you get full pay from day one.

Training for me was almost 4 months to the day. For a while after they were sending guys home more but I don't think that worked out as well. We'll have to see what they decide to do when we start up again.

Ronin47
07-03-2010, 01:59 PM
Hey Ronin,

If we are going to be short that is where it will be. It is hard to say though since to me we seem to be short but maybe not on total pilots on the fleet. Where we are understaffed is relief qualified FOs on the 744. I'm not sure how that translates to total FOs though. I will say that I've been flying with a lot of Second Officers lately which we hardly ever used to see on the freighter. I personally think we will see hiring before the official line says.

That pay projection is probably pretty close. Which is quite a bit higher than the old freighter scale was when I started. In training you get full regular pay, allowances (our version of per diem), retirement contribution, and hourly duty pay when you start flying on LFUS (our version of IOE). In other words you get full pay from day one.

Training for me was almost 4 months to the day. For a while after they were sending guys home more but I don't think that worked out as well. We'll have to see what they decide to do when we start up again.
Thanks Gents...excellent info I will keep close to my chest. Nothing else to do but study and wait for a call....hopefully. THANKS AGAIN.

uspilot
07-05-2010, 11:34 AM
I guess as they take delivery of new Airplanes they are transfereing the same number of /400 to Air China.




Cathay Pacific will return its three remaining grounded freighters to full operation this summer, in response to higher demand for air cargo shipments.


The global downturn prompted the carrier to initially ground five freighters. Two have already returned to operations and will be transferred to the Air China Cargo joint-venture once it has received the necessary approvals and commences operation in the second half of 2010, a Cathay spokeswoman told IFW.


“The three remaining aircraft will return from the desert in June and July,” she said.


“All three require heavy maintenance, and so their return to operations will be gradual and phased-in during the second half, preferably to coincide with the seasonal peak from Hong Kong.


“They will be deployed on our network, consistent with our plan to re-instate frequencies trimmed during the 2009 downturn.”


She said the market outlook remained “broadly positive”, with robust demand expected on intra-Asia services and major trade lanes to North America and Europe.


“We are working hard to deploy our fleet as efficiently as possible to service that demand and, obviously, with the arrival of the first new Boeing 747-8F freighters in 2011 [six B747-8Fs will be delivered over the course of the year], we are presented with the opportunity to deploy more capacity next year,” she added.


A further two aircraft will leave the Cathay Pacific fleet in the first quarter of 2011 to be prepared for transfer to Air China Cargo in the first half of 2011.

IndyAir Guy
07-05-2010, 02:38 PM
Don't forget about the A330s that are going to DrangonAir.

4everFO
07-06-2010, 05:40 AM
All but one of the -400BCFs have been returned to service. The last is due out of Xiamen (heavy maintenance base) next week. Also, the first of the BCFs (4 total) that are being transferred to Air China have been delayed to August. There is some speculation that the Chinese government will not actually approve the joint venture.

Has the company actually decided, or announced, how many of those 330s are going to KA?

Hopefully there will be a massive new airplane order when, or soon after, Cathay announce the half year results. I think that happens the end of this month or early August.

FO

uspilot
07-09-2010, 10:48 AM
**Chicago Welcomes Inaugural Around-the-World Cathay Pacific Freighter
Flight


**Airline Increases Local Operations Staffing by 33 Percent to Handle New Flights




CHICAGO, USA -- Cathay Pacific Cargo is heading a new direction today. Quite literally.


The airline’s first ever trans-Atlantic flight departs Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport at 4:50 p.m. CDT en route to Amsterdam, Netherlands; Dubai, United Arab Emirates and then home to Hong Kong. It will have arrived Chicago from Hong Kong via Anchorage, Alaska, making it the airline’s first around-the-world flight as well.


The airline has spent months developing the new route, which will initially be operated twice weekly, every Friday and Sunday (when departures will be at 10:50 p.m. CDT), using a Boeing 747-400 freighter. Cathay Pacific already offers eight trans-Pacific freighter flights a week to Hong Kong from Chicago, providing traditional cargo services plus specialty services such as pharmaceutical and live animal handling.


“Chicago is a great gateway for this service and we expect the flights to do quite well,” said Stephen Wong, Cathay Pacific’s vice president for cargo, Americas. “We’ll be helping businesses from throughout the Midwest get their products to markets in Europe and the Middle East.”


Early demand for space on the new service is meeting expectations. Cathay Pacific expects to be carrying significant quantities of building materials to the Middle East, including product bound for reconstruction efforts in Afghanistan. Into Amsterdam, where there has been insufficient cargo capacity to meet demand for some time, the airline expects to carry computers, fabric, pharmaceuticals and livestock.


Cathay Pacific is increasing its locally-based cargo operations team by 33 percent to handle the new flights. Two new agents and a new supervisor will bring the cargo team to 12. Two locally-based Cathay Pacific engineers provide maintenance support for the flights as well.


“Now, whether your cargo needs are westbound or eastbound, Cathay Pacific Cargo merits serious consideration given our expanded services,” said Douglas Wahl, Cathay Pacific’s locally based cargo manager. “We can also arrange charters for customers who need service beyond our regularly scheduled flights.”


Cathay Pacific has been working hard to strengthen its services to and from Hong Kong in response to the recent global upswing in airfreight markets, and has just last week increased its weekly freighter service to Miami and Houston to four and five flights, respectively.


The airline is also reinforcing its commitment to the continued development of Hong Kong as a leading international air cargo hub through the construction of its own new cargo terminal and the continued expansion of its freighter fleet.


Development of the HK$5.5 billion (approximately US$705 million) Cathay Pacific Cargo Terminal at Hong Kong International is now underway, with the facility set to come into operation in 2013. The airline will add to its existing fleet by bringing online 10 Boeing 747-8F freighters on firm order with deliveries set to commence in January 2011.


In addition to Chicago, Houston and Miami, Cathay Pacific Cargo also offers freighter service to Hong Kong from Anchorage, Atlanta, Dallas/Fort Worth, Los Angeles, New York (JFK), San Francisco, Toronto and Vancouver. Within North America, Cathay Pacific also operates passenger aircraft with daily service to Hong Kong from Los Angeles, New York JFK, San Francisco, Toronto and Vancouver.

atpcliff
07-09-2010, 03:44 PM
Hi!

Just read other post that said CX bought 6 747s from JAL.

cliff
LFW

uspilot
07-09-2010, 04:36 PM
Hi!

Just read other post that said CX bought 6 747s from JAL.

cliff
LFW

Don't know anything about that...and have not see it anywhere...

4everFO
07-10-2010, 10:27 AM
Have not heard about that either but it would not surprise me. The CEO has stated that at this time CX is not interested in ordering any new VLAs...-8s or the 380. This could be to replace 6 of the most tired -400s already in service, or dare I say....growth.

Where did you read that?

FO

uspilot
07-10-2010, 11:12 AM
National Airlines? I was just in Hong Kong and the word out there is that Cathay has purchased the 6-74F's from Japan Airlines. I couldn't find the employment info on National's website! Time will tell.

I think this is where he saw it.....

uspilot
07-13-2010, 02:51 PM
Congratulation guys...nice job....

Cathay Pacific Airways and Dragonair have recorded a combined 27.5 percent surge in passengers in June from a year earlier as travel demand rises on the back of the gradual economic recovery.


The affiliated airlines carried 2.22 million travelers last month compared with 1.74 million in June last year - when air travel took a hit from the financial tsunami and the swine flu scare.


In the first half of the year, the accumulated passenger numbers were up 8.5 percent. The jump in passengers last month was the highest for the group since July 2004.


"We expect to see strong demand throughout July and August," said Tom Owen, Cathay's general manager for revenue management. But Owen said the airline is cautious on whether the solid revenue flow can be sustained toward the end of the year.


Cathay will continue to restore capacity that was cut last year due to the economic downturn, Owen said.


Cargo and mail business also picked up, with the two airlines carrying a total of 148,520 tonnes last month, or 19.9 percent more than a year ago.


Total tonnage in the first half rose by 24.4 percent.


Cathay general manager for cargo sales and marketing James Woodrow said demand was robust on one the most important routes - between Hong Kong and Shanghai.

Ronin47
07-17-2010, 06:53 PM
Can any current U.S. Freighter Gents. elaborate on what a regular sched. might be once your online? What I mean is if your base is CYVR do you only do HKK turns all month or is there some type of variety to your flying? Would you do a around the world tour one month and Hong Kong turns the next. Or are you limited to only doing the select "city pairs" out of your "Base"....meaning for example: ORD-ANC-HKK then back again till the end of time?

marcal
07-17-2010, 11:41 PM
A typical freighter pattern is either a 'single crossing' or a 'W' pattern. For example....ORD-ANC-HKG-ANC-ORD is a single crossing....this can be completed in as little as 5 days but more typically 7 days. A 'W' pattern is ORD-ANC-HKG-ANC-HKG-ANC-ORD....these patterns are typically 10-12 days in duration. The company will try to build your scedule as close as possible to 84 hours a month. A single crossing and a W pattern in one month will typically put you over that so you may get a 'W' and a single cross that crosses into the next month. Most guys get 15-18 days off a month on that....big trips gone but big stints home. If you come in expecting 7-12 day patterns you'll be fine. Most North Americans were sold on two 6 day trips a month at the interview and that is not the case resulting is us griping about the length of the patterns a lot. You can get those shorter patterns if you are not 'relief qualified' and that takes about a year to get now so you can figure it out. Hope that helps.

As for around the world patterns, who knows....right now they are going to ORD crews.

Ronin47
07-18-2010, 12:17 AM
A typical freighter pattern is either a 'single crossing' or a 'W' pattern. For example....ORD-ANC-HKG-ANC-ORD is a single crossing....this can be completed in as little as 5 days but more typically 7 days. A 'W' pattern is ORD-ANC-HKG-ANC-HKG-ANC-ORD....these patterns are typically 10-12 days in duration. The company will try to build your scedule as close as possible to 84 hours a month. A single crossing and a W pattern in one month will typically put you over that so you may get a 'W' and a single cross that crosses into the next month. Most guys get 15-18 days off a month on that....big trips gone but big stints home. If you come in expecting 7-12 day patterns you'll be fine. Most North Americans were sold on two 6 day trips a month at the interview and that is not the case resulting is us griping about the length of the patterns a lot. You can get those shorter patterns if you are not 'relief qualified' and that takes about a year to get now so you can figure it out. Hope that helps.

As for around the world patterns, who knows....right now they are going to ORD crews.
Thanks Marcal...much appreciated. Either schedule sounds decent. Could be alot worse I guess.

Inconceivable
07-18-2010, 06:48 AM
Silly question--does Cathay have many (any?) female expat pilots? I have never encountered any but then I haven't flown on you much in the last decade.

myoface
07-18-2010, 06:55 AM
Hello DashGirl,

There are in fact several expat female pilots working at Cathay and they are very well regarded. Two are captains.

a few pages back

uspilot
07-20-2010, 07:29 PM
Hello all
Just talked to people at CX with regard to hiring....Once again, they said NO HIRING this year or even next year 2011....They will look at there man power in 4th Q 2011 and if they need more people than they will advise. Just thought people might want to know.

Fly safe all

marcal
07-20-2010, 10:01 PM
Hello all
Just talked to people at CX with regard to hiring....Once again, they said NO HIRING this year or even next year 2011....They will look at there man power in 4th Q 2011 and if they need more people than they will advise. Just thought people might want to know.

Fly safe all

We aren't hiring DEFO's, but they have started a trickle of upgrading current SO's as well as Cadets coming out of Adelaide.

4everFO
07-23-2010, 11:24 AM
Spoke with a flight ops manager the other day. The plan, as of when the conversation took place, is to increase cadet entry pilots to a little over 100 per year and promote up through the ranks from within. The only way they will entertain hiring any direct entry pilots is if the growth picks up to a point where CX will be "forced" to hire pilots to maintain the growth. There are rumors of airplane orders but according to the latest BOP the growth will be in the range of 0.1 to 1.5% for the next couple of years.

Sorry fellas.

FO

Cruizecontrol
07-23-2010, 11:02 PM
4everFO do you know how often the BOP is revised and what is the date on the latest BOP?

4everFO
07-24-2010, 08:20 AM
The Budget Operating Plan (BOP) is revised at least once a year. However, during 2008-09 there must have been at least 3-4 due to the collapse of the market and the subsequent scrambling to cut costs. I believe that the yearly BOP is done in the 4th quarter of the current year for the following year. The way us line schmucks find out about it....the DFO will have a weekly update that will mention things that matter to us, like growth (in terms of %), number of upgrades (CN and FO), new airplanes, new destinations, etc.

If CX do manage to order new airplanes, watch the announcement. The CEO will make statements about what the new airplanes are intended for, ie. growth v. replacement of older airframes. Keep in mind that the passenger -400s are getting old and tired, but they are paid for...with the exception of a few on lease.

FO

Cruizecontrol
07-24-2010, 09:11 AM
So the latest BOP is from October or November 09 or has a later been released? Things looked really bad at that point.

IndyAir Guy
07-24-2010, 09:26 AM
is to increase cadet entry pilots to a little over 100 per year and promote up through the ranks from within. The only way they will entertain hiring any direct entry pilots is if the growth picks up to a point where CX will be "forced" to hire pilots to maintain the growth.


That would make sense from a business standpoint and saves the company a lot of money because Cadets don't get housing or education allowance. However, if there is much growth I believe they will be forced to hire Direct Entry FOs. Also, I think there are only a few that can work in the USA, so bases in the USA will have to be staffed with DFOs

4everFO
07-24-2010, 12:38 PM
That would make sense from a business standpoint and saves the company a lot of money because Cadets don't get housing or education allowance. However, if there is much growth I believe they will be forced to hire Direct Entry FOs. Also, I think there are only a few that can work in the USA, so bases in the USA will have to be staffed with DFOs

Cadets do get education allowance now from rank of FO and up.

As far as the US bases go, this is MY take...Americans are now the 4th or 5th largest demographic in CX. If they do in fact intend to promote from within then the bases will be staffed by FOs and upgrading SOs transferring/bidding out of HKG. Remember they are recruiting "international" cadets now so there are bound to be some Yanks in the mix. If there are vacancies left over then they will staff the flights with HKG based pilots. The DEFOs in 2008 violated every single pilots CoS that was already in CX, hence the court case that the SOs won...naturally the company is appealing. I do not see them making the same mistake again. Now, if there is significant growth, and the experience levels of the cadets is such that they are not legally able to upgrade, then I think we will see DESOs and FOs. Right now there are 4 years worth of SOs (over 300 pilots) that have the experience to upgrade to FO. Additionally, the imminent dawn of 3 man long haul (Captain, FO and SO) to Europe doesn't bode well for the hiring of direct entry pilots.

Cruize...do not quote me but I believe it has been revised since the time period you state. All of the freighters being pulled from the desert are a sign that the budget changed.

FO

IndyAir Guy
07-24-2010, 05:14 PM
The DEFOs in 2008 violated every single pilots CoS that was already in CX,

Really 4ever??? As a DEFO from 2008 "I" didnt do anything. It was the Cathay's decisions to hire the way they did. Your statement makes it sound like I did something wrong. Why dont you blame everyone who signed over to Cos08 as well since they are bringing up the bottom too.

4everFO
07-25-2010, 02:31 AM
Unless you interviewed, offered a training date and assigned a aircraft and base to yourself, then you did not violate anything...the company did. I should have typed the "hiring of DEFOs violated existing pilots CoS". Which the company did as evidenced by the judgement against the company in regards to the SO court case. Simple fact is that the recruiting of FOs to the passenger bases in 2008 did hamper/hinder the career of the SOs already in CX. I brought this up in regards to the hiring debate, that now the company might be more cautious about hiring to the bases in the FO rank due to the experience of 2008. Did I mention anything about the terms of CoS08? The terms of CoS 08 are a different story...for those on the outside the only difference is the retirement age and the FO pay scales.

FO

Sioux115
07-26-2010, 08:39 AM
Looks like I better fill out that cadet application.:( Nothing like being a 6000hr cadet.

Spoke with a flight ops manager the other day. The plan, as of when the conversation took place, is to increase cadet entry pilots to a little over 100 per year and promote up through the ranks from within. The only way they will entertain hiring any direct entry pilots is if the growth picks up to a point where CX will be "forced" to hire pilots to maintain the growth. There are rumors of airplane orders but according to the latest BOP the growth will be in the range of 0.1 to 1.5% for the next couple of years.

Sorry fellas.

FO

Cruizecontrol
07-26-2010, 12:05 PM
Looks like I better fill out that cadet application.:( Nothing like being a 6000hr cadet.

That is the reason why they are getting away with this ****. They have more than 10K apps for the cadet scheme. Several with ATPLs and tons of hours applying for a job in HK with no housing allowance.

Hopefully the majors will start hiring eventually and there will be a mass exodus from CX. If not terms and conditions are going to go further down the drain for this business.

Sioux115
07-26-2010, 05:32 PM
Just to be clear my comment was sarcastic. I'm not gonna take a job in Hong Kong on 49,000 usd/yr.

Five Green
08-04-2010, 06:53 AM
Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd., Hong Kong’s largest carrier, will buy 36 Airbus SAS and Boeing Co. planes after posting better-than-estimated profit because of rebounding passenger and cargo traffic.
The carrier agreed to order 30 Airbus A350-900 planes and six Boeing 777-300ERs, it said in a statement today. First-half net income surged more than eightfold to HK$6.84 billion ($881 million) helped by the sale of a stake in a maintenance provider and an 8.5 percent jump in passenger numbers.
Cathay shares climbed to the highest in more than two years as demand recovers from a travel slump during the global recession that had forced the carrier to park planes and give staff unpaid leave. The airline also boosted first-half cargo revenue 63 percent as rising job confidence stokes U.S. and European demand for Asian-made televisions and Apple Inc. iPads.
“Core business and yields improvements were much better than expected,” said Jim Wong (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Jim%20Wong&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1&partialfields=-wnnis:NOAVSYND&lr=-lang_ja), an analyst with Nomura Holdings Inc. in Hong Kong. “The second half will be even better, unless oil prices surge.”
Passenger Numbers
The carrier, which has a group fleet of 166 planes, flew 13 million travelers in the first half. The tally includes unit Hong Kong Dragon Airlines Ltd. Passenger yield, a measure of average sales, rose 17.5 percent to 58.4 HK cents, while cargo yields surged 36 percent. Operating profit before one-time gains more than doubled to HK$4.96 billion.
“We’re confident that we will return robust results” in the second half, Chairman Christopher Pratt (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Christopher%20Pratt&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1&partialfields=-wnnis:NOAVSYND&lr=-lang_ja) told reporters at a Hong Kong briefing. “The business mix is good.”
The airline, controlled by Swire Pacific Ltd., also expects to begin operations at an air-cargo venture with affiliate Air China Ltd. in October, the statement said.
The carrier jumped 3.9 percent, the most in three months, to HK$18.08. The stock has risen 25 percent this year, the best performance in the Hang Seng Index (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=HSI:IND), which has lost 1.5 percent.
Cathay proposed an interim dividend of 33 HK cents a share. It didn’t make a payout a year ago. The airline sold its 15 percent stake in Hong Kong Aircraft Engineering Co. to Swire for HK$2.62 billion in June. It also sold a stake in an air-cargo handler in Hong Kong.


Can't say how this bodes for those working towards a position at Cathay but at least we're moving in the right direction.

uspilot
08-04-2010, 07:54 AM
Great news for all and nice job CX guys/Gals

but one needs to look at numbers
From now until 2015 there are 30 aircraft arriving, but also 29 departing (Mostly leases & freighters moving to Air China ending)

The lastest order (30+6=36) is due in 2016-2019.

Thus in the next nine years only a net gain of (1+36) 37 aircraft.
4.1 Aircraft per year. A growth rate of 4.1/153 = 2.7%

I got these number from another site.....so if true I don't see any hiring anytime soon...

BoeingMyWay
08-05-2010, 12:48 PM
Previous to the most recent announcement of 30 A350-900's and 6 B777-33ER's, there are still aircraft yet to be delivered that have already been ordered. There are 10 B747-800 Freighters that begin arriving early 2011. There are 12 remaining B777-300ER's to be delivered from the earlier order of 30(18 delivered to date). The additional 6 means that 18 more 777's are due. And lastly, there is still I believe 3 A330's to be delivered from a previous order. So, including the just announced order....
10 747-800 Freighters, 18 777-300ER's, 30 A350-900's, and 3 A330's.
Total 61 aircraft on firm order. Even with upwards of 30 older aircraft to be retired, the fleet should be growing in the next several years and that should equate to additional hiring.

Sioux115
08-05-2010, 01:47 PM
I like what you're saying. Something has to break loose with recruitment sometime! Getting pretty pruney in the hold pool!

SUX4U
08-05-2010, 05:10 PM
Ohhh potential for growth I see? Very nice news. Why do I feel that the only new butts on property at CX to fly those planes will be via the cadet route one way or another? Has anyone got the financial stats as far as just how much CX will save with a cadet having no housing vs. a DESO with the standard expat package?

Cruizecontrol
08-05-2010, 05:21 PM
Not only will they save a lot on the cadets now, but they will also save on everybody else in the future. Housing allowance will will eventually be gone for everybody :rolleyes:

Also, the cadets they are hiring now, will in the future be willing to accept a lot worse COS than is available now. :eek:

bignuts
05-02-2011, 01:36 AM
FlyPurdue
US based CX pilot here. Check your PM's. Be happy to discuss the opportunity with CX.
Cheers!
Boingmyway, can you be kind to give some real upto date info about Cathay also pay-wise. I have my interview on May 24Th. I'd very much appreciate it.

CEFO
05-04-2011, 04:49 PM
Boingmyway, can you be kind to give some real upto date info about Cathay also pay-wise. I have my interview on May 24Th. I'd very much appreciate it.

Interview for DESO / DEFO or cadetship?

uspilot
05-04-2011, 05:55 PM
Interview for DESO / DEFO or cadetship?

There is no DESO/DEFO anymore only cadeship...they just change the name to cadet SO, with a poor T&C. there are 3 type of cadeship. take a look at CX website and you can read all about the cadetship and the different type. They are advertising min SO pay of HKG 45,000....that is incorrect as that figure include $10,000 HKG for Housing....hands down the worst Contract out there.Good Luck and do your resarch.

Cruizecontrol
05-05-2011, 10:05 AM
Also, don't count on EVER getting a base except for HK!!. With slim to none housing allowance there is absolutely no incentive for CX to base pilots in the future.

They have a lot of problems with their bases and the primary reason they have them in the first place is to save cost on housing allowances. Now that people are dumb enough to join without they can keep them in HK!!

bignuts
05-05-2011, 09:59 PM
My interview is for the Cadet SO; however, I just received another email telling me that after they had reviewed my file I am to attend a direct to final interview. I don't know what to expect on that interview other than a ride in the 747-200. Here's what they told me I'll make in the first year:
Second Officer

1


$35,170


$3,517


$10,000


$48,687



That dosn't includes the CEA, nor the annual bonus. If you have any useful information for my final interview, I'd greatly appreciate it.

4everFO
05-06-2011, 05:28 AM
$3517 is the hourly duty pay and the figure that you have been given is based on 84 credit hours (84 credits hours = additional 10% pay) in the previous month. Since CX pilots have ZERO control over our rosters and no line guarantee, I would not include that number in your calculations.

FO

HondaS2K
05-22-2011, 01:07 AM
if you join as a cadet with current offer, no house allowance, upgrade time takes 4-5 years, and lives in one of the most expensive city in the world with those 500sq ft apartment, getting stuck in HKG base for many years... if you have flying hours, it's better to fly in the states and get more flying experience than joining this deal.

Braniff DC8
05-31-2011, 04:33 AM
Stay as far away from cx as you possibly can. You will hate the place and you career will always be under threat! You will see what i am talking about if you join. Go read pprune mate!