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waflyboy
06-03-2010, 02:51 PM
I heard an interesting article on NPR today about how the class of 2010 college grads are going to have hard time finding work. They focused on a guy who majored in film media, and I was interested by this quote in particular:

" Dowling says that while most of the school's 2010 journalism graduates already have jobs, most know they'll need more than one job to make ends meet.

"The reality is the wages aren't good because there are so many people willing to do the work," Dowling says. "

Apparently flying airplanes is not the only line of work affected by this phenomenon. Here's the full story if anybody is interested.

Dream Of TV Job Remains Elusive For Montana Grad : NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127353382)


Estantoi
06-12-2010, 09:57 AM
It seems to me that art degrees typically don't have that much value. It would be like getting a degree in sports. How many people actually make it? Not very many.

bryris
06-13-2010, 05:42 PM
Just too many people around these days. Too many births and not enough deaths.


wrxpilot
06-14-2010, 05:28 AM
It seems to me that art degrees typically don't have that much value. It would be like getting a degree in sports. How many people actually make it? Not very many.


And that's pretty much always been the case, whether we're talking about 2010 or 2001. If one is to have a backup plan, it seems pretty obvious that it should be in a marketable profession (medical, engineering, etc.). A "backup" degree in a liberal arts field isn't very realistic.

UASIT
06-14-2010, 11:32 PM
My biggest assets have been a fed gov security clearance and my USAF Community College Associates...The MBA is useless...Unless I stayed in South Louisiana and used the network to get a job in the oil business...And that line of work isn't for me...yet...

bozobigtop
06-15-2010, 08:39 AM
And that's pretty much always been the case, whether we're talking about 2010 or 2001. If one is to have a backup plan, it seems pretty obvious that it should be in a marketable profession (medical, engineering, etc.). A "backup" degree in a liberal arts field isn't very realistic.


Exactly, most Americans stay as far away from science and math degrees as possible, that's the problem!

hindsight2020
06-15-2010, 02:01 PM
Exactly, most Americans stay as far away from science and math degrees as possible, that's the problem!

What, you think that happens in a vacuum? You ever ask yourself why this is the case?

Look at wrxpilot..engineer turned corp-o...again, you think that happens in a vacuum? You want to do drudge work and mindless data babysitting for 60-80K on a perma-contractor employment basis with no pension, worthless raises and gaps in employment, not to mention a perma-nomad labor construct that prescribes relocations by design every 7 years, when you could smoke and bang your way through " college", get a generic easy piece of paper and go be a professional moron at Lowe's for 20K less and all the overtime you can stuff in your back pocket? In essence, if you're gonna make bat dung for money anyways, might as well get an employee discount on household appliances while you're at it. As somebody with two engineering " back up" degrees myself, I suggest YOU try your own advice Capone. I don't see you cracking that Diff Eq's book, giddy to go get used by Lockmart for a 5 year project and then get tossed with no pension, rinse and repeat till you're old.

Engineers make decent "tread water" money, but their jobs are just as fickle as airline jobs (though are laterally-portable) and plateau early and often. Relocations are a hardship, and most people with the academic discipline and work ethic to be able to comprehend and excel in these quantitative fields simply do not see the point in a fickle job that pays 50-80K after 10 years for all the troubles of getting said education, which as opposed to flying, is simply mind-numbing and not enviable by anybody. Which is why they seem as great "backups".

Think about the psychological meaning of the very word " backup". Something you don't care much for, otherwise you'd be doing it in the first place. A survival fallback, a consolation prize. A condition you wish to be temporary in order to afford to do what you REALLY care for. Is that really that appealing to the starry-eyed college age kid that got told the world is your oyster? Hell no. You have no concept of what "settling" is in life when you're 21 and believe in you optimism biased mind that you're above financial scarcity.

The problem is not outright lack of interest in science, the problem is we LIE to our children. We tell them they can pursue life without abandon at no cost to them. That they are keepers of their destiny and that other people are not an obstacle to their self-actualization, let alone their ability to put food on the table. That's why everybody wants to be American Idol in lieu of a lack-luster engineer. When we seek entertainment value out of our toil (the " love what you do" mantra) to compensate for the fact we make jack chit as a country of workers relative to our cost of living, that's why you get a lack of desire for the boring and mind numbing quantitative-centric fields. We want that highschoolish euphoria of having fun at work, like the social call high school was.

You want me to crank out CFD code, erode my eyesight away in front of a CATIA scope all day? Pay me like a rock star and gimme a pension so that I can live comfortably, afford my recreational flying and not have to worry about retirement while living my life without abandon. Oh, 'No' you say? Well suck it then, let Prakash do it for 60K capped and a joke 401K in lieu of a pension. He's not happy either (though he's happy not to be in Mumbai) and you can continue to bemoan Americans' lack of involvement in the sciences. Maslow hierarchy of needs baby, wins all the time.

SkyHigh
06-16-2010, 06:20 AM
People are spending a small fortune to get mystery degrees with no realistic career plans after college. Unless you get a real degree in something tangible I don't think that college is worth it anymore.

However some here have mentioned that getting an education and finding a career are two different things. College is not supposed to be job training. Maybe they are right, but it is an awfully expensive self fulfillment venture.

Aside from that it seems to me that the era of the employee is going away. We are heading back to a self employment culture.

Skyhigh

CrimsonEclipse
06-16-2010, 07:07 AM
To quote an animated movie:
"See a need, fill a need"

What industry is hiring the most, for the longest time, has a likely long term growth potential, and lowest unemployment.

Medical care. (nurse, elderly care, etc)

People will be getting sick, getting old, and dying for the foreseeable future.

Then tweak it for your personality.

CE

SkyHigh
06-16-2010, 07:13 AM
Lets not forget that the baby boomers are due to begin to retire soon. Jobs that have been locked down since the 70's will begin to open up.

Skyhigh

lifter123
06-16-2010, 07:54 AM
To quote an animated movie:
"See a need, fill a need"

What industry is hiring the most, for the longest time, has a likely long term growth potential, and lowest unemployment.

Medical care. (nurse, elderly care, etc)

People will be getting sick, getting old, and dying for the foreseeable future.

Then tweak it for your personality.

CE

Tell that to my wife who is an unemployed nurse and cannot find a nursing job. It doesn't matter how many sick people there are if they keep declaring bankruptcy and not paying their bills.

If you have 10 years of experience you're good to go, but anything less than 2 years you're out of luck. Nursing is not easy to get into like it was before this economic crap...

lifter123
06-16-2010, 07:57 AM
Lets not forget that the baby boomers are due to begin to retire soon. Jobs that have been locked down since the 70's will begin to open up.

Skyhigh

Couldn't agree more. Once they move out things will start to loosen up and some actual "recruitment" will happen.

Cubdriver
06-17-2010, 03:32 AM
Hindsight, a lot of what you say is true but your iconoclasm is pretty excessive for someone your age. You had to have been excited about engineering at one time to chase down two diplomas and 14 certs for flying. If you were my or Sky's age with that level of pessimism about these professions I would say well, at least you know what you are talking about. But when someone under 30 says the world is not worth having I have some doubts and begin to wonder what the real issue is. Legions of men have enjoyed rewarding careers in both disciplines. While perhaps a legion more might chime in about their troubles (and do here at APC), the world was never perfect. One thing I have learned in my 43 years is that we create our own destiny. I am not saying you can change reality, or that some things do not suck, but you can move mountains and change the world if only you would believe it is true. Be careful what you wish for. You are your own cheerleader, and your own worst enemy. Live now, with an eye to the future. Sappy sayings perhaps, but true.

SkyHigh
06-17-2010, 06:53 AM
The problem is not outright lack of interest in science, the problem is we LIE to our children. We tell them they can pursue life without abandon at no cost to them. That they are keepers of their destiny and that other people are not an obstacle to their self-actualization, let alone their ability to put food on the table. That's why everybody wants to be American Idol in lieu of a lack-luster engineer. When we seek entertainment value out of our toil (the " love what you do" mantra) to compensate for the fact we make jack chit as a country of workers relative to our cost of living, that's why you get a lack of desire for the boring and mind numbing quantitative-centric fields. We want that highschoolish euphoria of having fun at work, like the social call high school was.


It is true. Life is not a Disney movie. I doubt the Chinese fool themselves into thinking such things. They are realistically focused on what it takes to survive and little more.

Skyhigh

Huggy Bear
06-25-2010, 08:50 AM
It is true. Life is not a Disney movie. I doubt the Chinese fool themselves into thinking such things. They are realistically focused on what it takes to survive and little more.

Skyhigh

I was told growing up as a child in the 80's: "Clean your plate. You are lucky to be an American. There are starving kids in Africa."

I now tell my children: "Finish your homework. There is a kid in China or India right now that is hungry for your job."

tomgoodman
06-25-2010, 12:24 PM
Maslow hierarchy of needs baby, wins all the time.

Wins, yes, but there's no need to let it run up the score. Too much emphasis on the survival/safety items can leave one empty, bored, and eventually just as dead. There are no tombstones reading: "I wish I'd spent more time at the office."