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View Full Version : Asia hurting for pilots


itsokimapilot
09-05-2010, 05:35 PM
Is this as promising as it sounds?


Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd., Qantas Airways Ltd. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=QAN:AU) and Emirates Airline are awaiting deliveries of about 400 planes to capitalize on Asia’s rising prosperity. Finding pilots is the next job.
Boeing Co. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=BA:US) expects the region’s carriers to be the biggest buyers (http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1313) of twin-aisle planes as travel grows in China and India, home to a combined 1.1 billion middle-class people. Asia-Pacific airlines will buy about 8,000 planes worth $1.2 trillion over the next 20 years, Airbus SAS said.
Airlines worldwide need an average of 49,900 pilots a year from 2010 to 2030 as fleets expand, yet current training capacity is only 47,025, according to the International Civil Aviation Organization (http://www.icao.int/) in Montreal. That is sparking bidding wars as Emirates offers tax-free salaries and four-bedroom villas for captains, and AirAsia Bhd. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=AIRA:MK), the region’s biggest budget airline, gives tuition-free training.
“It’s a major issue and will be a big challenge to the industry’s growth,” said Binit Somaia, a Sydney-based analyst for the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation (http://www.centreforaviation.com/). “Even if you can find the pilots, you have to pay top dollar for them because they are so scarce.”
China, India
China, the world’s fastest-growing major aviation market, likely will account for a third of the region’s orders, Airbus, the world’s biggest aircraft maker, said in February. Its economy will grow 10.5 percent this year, compared with world growth of 4.6 percent, according to International Monetary Fund estimates.
India, with estimated growth of 9.4 percent this year, may overtake China as the world’s fastest-growing major economy as early as 2013, according to Morgan Stanley.
This year, the region’s carriers ordered 133 commercial jets with more than 100 seats, or 23 percent of the global total, according to Ascend Worldwide Ltd. (http://www.ascendworldwide.com/), a London-based aviation forecaster and data provider.
“There will be a shortage of pilots, and this is going to last for a while because it takes time to produce a good pilot,” said Elmer Pena, president of the Airline Pilots Association of the Philippines.
Philippine Airlines Inc. canceled flights in July and August and rebooked passengers after losing 27 pilots to higher paying jobs abroad.
Fleet Doubles
The demand in Asia contrasts with the 4,500 U.S. airline pilots on furlough, according to figures compiled by Kit Darby (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Kit%20Darby&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1&partialfields=-wnnis:NOAVSYND&lr=-lang_ja), a retired United Airlines pilot now running an Atlanta-based consulting firm.
That situation shouldn’t last long. The global fleet of cargo and large passenger planes will double (http://www.airbus.com/en/gmf2009/appli.htm?onglet=&page=) to nearly 32,000 by 2028 from 15,750 last year, according to Airbus.
The major U.S. airlines are expected to hire more than 40,000 pilots in the next 12 years, said Louis Smith (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Louis%20Smith&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1&partialfields=-wnnis:NOAVSYND&lr=-lang_ja), president of FltOps.com, which provides career counseling services and sponsors job fairs.
World passenger traffic is expected to increase an average of 4.7 percent a year between 2009 and 2028, according to Airbus.
“I believe one can expect serious shortages among the foreign carriers who can’t afford to pay what it takes to attract qualified pilots,” Smith said.
$28 Billion Expansion
Emirates is the largest Arab airline with more than 200 planes on order. It aims to recruit 250 pilots this year and double that number in 2011, it said in a statement.
The company, which needs more than $28 billion through 2017 for expansion, sought to recruit in Houston, Madrid and Singapore.
Cathay Pacific, Hong Kong’s biggest carrier, will recruit 1,000 people, including crew, Chief Operating Officer John Slosar (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=John%20Slosar&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1&partialfields=-wnnis:NOAVSYND&lr=-lang_ja) said.
PT Garuda Indonesia placed a newspaper advertisement last month seeking pilots “fluent in English and of good character.” Jetstar, the budget arm of Qantas, plans to recruit 120 more pilots by next summer.
Singapore Airlines Ltd. and AirAsia, based near Kuala Lumpur, set up their own tuition-free training academies. Singapore Air’s flying college (http://www.sfcpl.com/) graduates about 150 cadet pilots a year, while AirAsia’s facility trains as many as 500 a year.
Graduates must stay with the budget carrier for five years, AirAsia Chief Executive Officer Tony Fernandes (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Tony%20Fernandes&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1&partialfields=-wnnis:NOAVSYND&lr=-lang_ja) said.
Villas, Dry Cleaners
New flight schools also are opening. CAPA is investing at least $125 million to build an aerospace university in India that can train about 300 pilots a year, Somaia said.
The shortage, and hiring by a new crop of budget carriers, also could push wages higher.
“There is a misconception that low-cost airlines pay lower salaries,” said Tony Davis (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Tony%20Davis&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1&partialfields=-wnnis:NOAVSYND&lr=-lang_ja), chief executive officer of budget carrier Tiger Airways Holdings Ltd. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=TGR:SP), part-owned by Singapore Air (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=SIA:SP) “We couldn’t do that in a competitive market.”
Basic pay for Singapore Air captains flying twin-aisle Boeing 777s or the Airbus A330s begin at S$9,300 ($6,870) a month, excluding allowances, said P. James, president of the Air Line Pilots Association of Singapore. They also earn a productivity allowance of as much as S$3,800 for flying 70 hours a month.
Emirates offers a starting monthly salary of 34,410 dirhams ($9,370) for captains, according to its website. That excludes benefits such as hourly flying and productivity payments.
Its other perks include a tax-free basic salary, profit sharing, villas for captains and free dry cleaning of uniforms, its website said. Those incentives help attract candidates to an increasingly demanding job, said Barry Jackson, president of the Australian and International Pilots Association, who has been a pilot at Qantas since 1987.
“Young people these days prefer to become doctors or lawyers,” he said. “This sort of career path is becoming less desirable.”
To contact the reporter on the story: Chan Sue Ling (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Chan%20Sue%20Ling&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1&partialfields=-wnnis:NOAVSYND&lr=-lang_ja) in Singapore [email protected] ([email protected])

Pilots Sought to Fill Cockpits as Travel Boom in Asia Creates Shortage - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-05/pilots-sought-to-fill-cockpits-as-travel-boom-in-asia-creates-shortage.html?cmpid=yhoo)


dojetdriver
09-05-2010, 07:09 PM
Is this as promising as it sounds?

Just as promising as it was BEFORE the economic crash. Remember, this industry has proven to be VERY cyclical, not just in the U.S. but worldwide as well. And sometimes those cycles come when they're not expected.

dundem
09-06-2010, 12:50 AM
I'm too lazy to address all the points that come to mind, but I'll summarize and say that I believe that the reality lies between the current situation and this overly optimistic article. Things are getting better and will continue to improve significantly over the next two years worldwide, but that may not help some existing pilots who are hoping for improvement. Many of these Asian countries will zero-time F/Os (who are not even in flight school yet) before they hire expats.


KoruPilot
09-06-2010, 01:14 AM
Even Garuda is back to hiring expat FO's, China Eastern and Air China will be hiring expat FO's next year, every airline in China seams to be hiring expat captains. Personally, I don't see how Asia and the ME region will fill their seats in the next few years. The age 65 thing has given many a western airline a reprieve, but that'll end within the next couple years as well. So, yea, it looks rosy, but low time western FO's with no type rating. . . perhaps not.

dundem
09-06-2010, 01:38 AM
I hope you're right Koru, it will be good for all of us. I guess we should continue to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

captjns
09-06-2010, 03:57 AM
Even Garuda is back to hiring expat FO's, China Eastern and Air China will be hiring expat FO's next year, every airline in China seams to be hiring expat captains. Personally, I don't see how Asia and the ME region will fill their seats in the next few years. The age 65 thing has given many a western airline a reprieve, but that'll end within the next couple years as well. So, yea, it looks rosy, but low time western FO's with no type rating. . . perhaps not.


While the economy for Indonesia is improving once again, the pay scales for Garuda and Lion, Air are below industry standards. However, the cost of living in Indonesia is fairly low too.

Controlled Rest
09-06-2010, 04:13 AM
Is this as promising as it sounds?



That is sparking bidding wars




Bidding wars? The 3 airlines listed at the top of the article have done nothing but reduce terms and conditions in the last decade! Yup, there's a bidding war I want to be part of. Turn them down now and next month they'll offer you 10% less!

Smash312
09-06-2010, 05:29 AM
BBC News - Chinese pilots lied about flying records (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11200188)

You're right - they'll be hurting even more.........

Columbia
09-06-2010, 01:45 PM
Pilots needed as Asia travel boom creates shortage - Transportation - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/596545-pilots-needed-as-asia-travel-boom-creates-shortage)

Pilots needed as Asia travel boom creates shortage
by Bloomberg on Monday, 06 September 2010

HIGH FLYERS: Airlines worldwide need an average of 49,900 pilots a year from 2010 to 2030 as fleets expand.
Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd, Qantas Airways Ltd. and Emirates Airline are awaiting deliveries of about 400 planes to capitalize on Asia’s rising prosperity. Finding pilots is the next job.

Boeing Co expects the region’s carriers to be the biggest buyers of twin-aisle planes as travel grows in China and India, home to a combined 1.1 billion middle-class people. Asia-Pacific airlines will buy about 8,000 planes worth $1.2 trillion over the next 20 years, Airbus SAS said.

Airlines worldwide need an average of 49,900 pilots a year from 2010 to 2030 as fleets expand, yet current training capacity is only 47,025, according to the International Civil Aviation Organization in Montreal. That is sparking bidding wars as Emirates offers tax-free salaries and four-bedroom villas for captains, and AirAsia Bhd., the region’s biggest budget airline, gives tuition-free training.

“It’s a major issue and will be a big challenge to the industry’s growth,” said Binit Somaia, a Sydney-based analyst for the Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation. “Even if you can find the pilots, you have to pay top dollar for them because they are so scarce.”

China, the world’s fastest-growing major aviation market, likely will account for a third of the region’s orders, Airbus, the world’s biggest aircraft maker, said in February. Its economy will grow 10.5 percent this year, compared with world growth of 4.6 percent, according to International Monetary Fund estimates.

India, with estimated growth of 9.4 percent this year, may overtake China as the world’s fastest-growing major economy as early as 2013, according to Morgan Stanley.

This year, the region’s carriers ordered 133 commercial jets with more than 100 seats, or 23 percent of the global total, according to Ascend Worldwide Ltd., a London-based aviation forecaster and data provider.

“There will be a shortage of pilots, and this is going to last for a while because it takes time to produce a good pilot,” said Elmer Pena, president of the Airline Pilots Association of the Philippines.

Philippine Airlines Inc. canceled flights in July and August and rebooked passengers after losing 27 pilots to higher paying jobs abroad.

The demand in Asia contrasts with the 4,500 U.S. airline pilots on furlough, according to figures compiled by Kit Darby, a retired United Airlines pilot now running an Atlanta-based consulting firm.

That situation shouldn’t last long. The global fleet of cargo and large passenger planes will double to nearly 32,000 by 2028 from 15,750 last year, according to Airbus.

The major US airlines are expected to hire more than 40,000 pilots in the next 12 years, said Louis Smith, president of FltOps.com, which provides career counseling services and sponsors job fairs.

World passenger traffic is expected to increase an average of 4.7 percent a year between 2009 and 2028, according to Airbus.

“I believe one can expect serious shortages among the foreign carriers who can’t afford to pay what it takes to attract qualified pilots,” Smith said.

Emirates is the largest Arab airline with more than 200 planes on order. It aims to recruit 250 pilots this year and double that number in 2011, it said in a statement.

The company, which needs more than $28 billion through 2017 for expansion, sought to recruit in Houston, Madrid and Singapore.

Cathay Pacific, Hong Kong’s biggest carrier, will recruit 1,000 people, including crew, Chief Operating Officer John Slosar said.

PT Garuda Indonesia placed a newspaper advertisement last month seeking pilots “fluent in English and of good character.” Jetstar, the budget arm of Qantas, plans to recruit 120 more pilots by next summer.

Singapore Airlines Ltd. and AirAsia, based near Kuala Lumpur, set up their own tuition-free training academies. Singapore Air’s flying college graduates about 150 cadet pilots a year, while AirAsia’s facility trains as many as 500 a year.

Graduates must stay with the budget carrier for five years, AirAsia Chief Executive Officer Tony Fernandes said.

New flight schools also are opening. CAPA is investing at least $125 million to build an aerospace university in India that can train about 300 pilots a year, Somaia said.

The shortage, and hiring by a new crop of budget carriers, also could push wages higher.

“There is a misconception that low-cost airlines pay lower salaries,” said Tony Davis, chief executive officer of budget carrier Tiger Airways Holdings Ltd., part-owned by Singapore Air “We couldn’t do that in a competitive market.”

Basic pay for Singapore Air captains flying twin-aisle Boeing 777s or the Airbus A330s begin at S$9,300 ($6,870) a month, excluding allowances, said P. James, president of the Air Line Pilots Association of Singapore. They also earn a productivity allowance of as much as S$3,800 for flying 70 hours a month.

Emirates offers a starting monthly salary of 34,410 dirhams ($9,370) for captains, according to its website. That excludes benefits such as hourly flying and productivity payments.

Its other perks include a tax-free basic salary, profit sharing, villas for captains and free dry cleaning of uniforms, its website said. Those incentives help attract candidates to an increasingly demanding job, said Barry Jackson, president of the Australian and International Pilots Association, who has been a pilot at Qantas since 1987.

“Young people these days prefer to become doctors or lawyers,” he said. “This sort of career path is becoming less desirable."

esa17
09-06-2010, 02:58 PM
Finally the pilot shortage has arrived!

ToiletDuck
09-06-2010, 03:06 PM
Finally the pilot shortage has arrived!

Your sarcasm was perfectly played. Well done :D

mmaviator
09-06-2010, 03:12 PM
Finally the pilot shortage has arrived!

Nicely done......the shortage will be just in time for single pilot airliners.:rolleyes:

PurpleCRJ
09-06-2010, 03:39 PM
I don't like how much of this article is about Emirates. They are offering about 85K/yr. That is no boom in contract flying. That's about half what I think we should get to live in Dubai and get 11 or 12 days off per month. So, they are promising to hire a ton of pilots. Never heard that before.

scumby
09-06-2010, 09:39 PM
Finally the pilot shortage has arrived!



Don't believe everything you read about the pilot shortage, there a still alot of pilot furloughed in the USA. Many foreign job have terrible work rules if any. Do you want to live in the UAE or in China. I recommend finding a job as a UAV pilot if you want to do that. The pay is great and everyone around you speaks english:eek:

KoruPilot
09-06-2010, 11:24 PM
What am I on pprune?

Anything positive to say. . . any of you?

I assume you're not making nice coin flying a B744 for a Chinese airline, staying in very nice hotels and being treated, frankly, way better than the US carriers have treated anyone for some time now.

But hey, if YOU don't show up, or try, then that just makes it one pilot easier for the guy/gal who actually wants to fly for a living.

PLovett
09-07-2010, 12:20 AM
I note that at present those Asian airlines who are recruiting (as advertised on the usual web sites) only seem to want experienced aircrew.

I presume they are still training their cadets and are looking for experienced crew until they are ready. What then for the expats?

HercDriver130
09-07-2010, 01:37 AM
Actually EVA has an ad up for 40 untyped FOs to fly the MD-11... only caveat is they have a list of airliners you have to have flown in the previous 12 months....

KoruPilot
09-07-2010, 02:23 AM
The cadets don't come close to filling gaps. If you are left seat then there is very little to worry about as the regulatory requirements for a wide body command within China are very tough. 500 pm sectors on type for over 250 ton. Do the math at maybe 50 sectors per year, maybe, plus the current and near future requirement for capable pilots, and you get the idea.

Personally, I think that if you are down to worrying about a cadet taking your possible slot at an Asian carrier you perhaps don't qualify currently. And yes, if you have no jet/turbine time and have less than 3000 hours then you likely will have a very hard time convincing an Asian carrier to hire you. Not impossible mind you, but you would have to have something to sell, like a current type rating, and you might need an in personally, or just show up. But, you may have a personal problem with that sort of thing, which is just fine.

Cruizecontrol
09-07-2010, 06:27 AM
I note that at present those Asian airlines who are recruiting (as advertised on the usual web sites) only seem to want experienced aircrew.

I presume they are still training their cadets and are looking for experienced crew until they are ready. What then for the expats?

Not correct!!! Cathay Pacific only wants international cadets at the moment. So far 15000 applicants or so from all over the world. They have plenty of hightime/experienced pilots in their DEFO pool, but they will probably never get hired if they can crew their aircraft from the cadet line only

esa17
09-07-2010, 08:26 AM
Don't believe everything you read about the pilot shortage, there a still alot of pilot furloughed in the USA. Many foreign job have terrible work rules if any. Do you want to live in the UAE or in China. I recommend finding a job as a UAV pilot if you want to do that. The pay is great and everyone around you speaks english:eek:

I guess I did need the sarcasim tag.

captfurlough
09-07-2010, 01:07 PM
As someone who has been in this business for 32 years, let me say that in that time I have never, repeat NEVER, seen a pilot shortage. This, despite numerous prognosticators and expert reports, most of which were self serving. For example, they tend to come from the training industry, or the aircraft manufacturers overly optimistic estimates of aircraft needed.

Flying continues to conjure up romantic career images, even though the reality is far removed from glamorous. The number of inquiries and threads on this site are indicative that the population of pilot's in the pipeline is alive and well, and competition for reasonable employment remains intensely fearce.

Yes, there will be retirements..but they don't crest for a number of years yet. Moreover, the regional airline industry, which was a shadow of it's present size even 20 years ago, now carries nearly 50% of all US domestic traffic! This explosive growth is a double edged sword for those of you in the pipeline.

On the plus side, it's created unprecidented opportunities for low time pilots. American Eagle will let you into the game with only 1000 hours total time....30 years ago you couldn't touch a Cessna 310 (as a commerical pilot for charters, for example) without 3000 TT. On the downside, if you have your eyes set on flying the heavy iron....the majors are under unprecedented cost pressures and so have been, and will continue to, turn over flying in the 70 to 110 seat category to the regionals. To remain profitable, they rely on huge seat numbers to lower their CASM. The unions are already losing this battle. Note that Comair is going to slash their fleet in half...parking many of the CRJ 50 seaters while retaining 70 to 90 seat airplanes. Republic is adding E-190s and flying 100 seats around at 60% of the labor rates of Midwest Airlines. In other words, the mainline carriers will stick to fewer but larger airplanes, and the regionals will fly mid-size airplanes, replacing smaller RJs as traffic rebounds or grows.

A word about reality...it BITES! If you're trying to get into this business, be prepared for strikes, furloughs, bankruptcies, medical issues, mergers and seniority list setbacks THROUGH OUT your career! I have been through each and every one of these issues!!!! There is no such thing as a job for life "or once you get here you got it made". Those cherry days are over, and died with the guys whose career spanned the DC-3, 6, Connie, 707, and 74. They retired after living the dream.

As for the shortage...well, let's look at current requirements shown on Rishworth or Parc. Not unusual to see 1) The applicable type rating. 2) 500 hours PIC in type 3) Last PC within 6 months 4) 3 T/Os and Landings within the last 90 days 5) One to two years international (overwater) experience 6) NO accidents, incidents, or violations 7) not more than 90 days of non flying within the last 12 months or not less than XXX hours the last 12 months. And by the way, here is the training bond to sign...for $15 to 30K if you leave before your contract is up.

Now.....the only reason they can do that is because there are enough guys out there who meet those requirements, and in 32 years of professional flying I have NEVER seen these sorts of comprehensive requirements before. Yes, there have been requirements, but not as exhaustive and incontrovertable as these.

None of this is meant to discourage any of you...only to try to dispence with the notorious "pilot shortage myth."

atpcliff
09-07-2010, 05:38 PM
Hi!

Also pilot shortage in the ME (moreso than in Asia, overall) and Africa. Yes, the shortage is here, and it will slowly be coming to America. The ONLY reason the shortage is not worse in Asia/ME/Africa is that many Americans are over there, filling the gap, already.

Crap work rules? Mine were 15 hour MAX duty day. 11 hours MINIMUM rest. If our duty day was 14.X hours, 16 hours rest. Max 160 DUTY hours in a 28 day period, which was the limiting factor (Europe is 190 Duty hrs).

Many places already do 0 time FOs, but the numbers they are able to train per year are very low compared to the spots they are expected before. As you can see posted above, China may soon be hiring foreign FOs. They NEVER have before, only Capts.

India is soon to pass China as the fastest growing economy.

captfurlough
09-07-2010, 06:36 PM
I should clarify my previous post as follows: there is no pilot shortage of well qualified US pilots. Unlike most of the world, the US has enjoyed economic development on a scale that allowed the general aviation sector to blossom, and that has produced a large number of pilots through the civilian ranks. In fact, many foriegn students come to the US because of the ready availability of flight training at relatively reasonable costs. Some US pilots would accept a position overseas, and some have been able to do so.

It is also true that there are a number of nations in which US pilots are not desired...which is to say "due to the politics of the USA, you are not welcome here." In these instances you may find requirements for a European license only. It is also true, that some US pilots who have been permited to work for foriegn carriers in countries which allow this, have found themselves living in an environment which they describe as occassionaly hostile or even dangerous. And of course, there are those carriers or those countries where most of us would rather not fly.

It is interesting to note that there is a growing population of pilots in the US that are foriegn nationals, and that many of these individuals stay in the US and work for 121 regional carriers, often from countries where a US citizen is not allowed to work and fly! At one large regional carrier I'm acquainted with, I would guess that approximately 15 to 20% of their new hires are not US citizens. I have no problem with diversity or the US as a melting pot, however, there are many furloughed and unemployed US pilots who would not be granted the same consideration in certain other countries.

Where ab initio cadets are concerned, most of these programs were started in countries where the indeginous general aviation and the military provide limited opportunity, leaving the country with a limited supply of domestic pilots. Here you may find the contract employee, often a direct entry level captain, working with a native low time ab initio pilot graduate. The program assumes that once the native pilot has the experience he'll move to the left seat and there will no longer be a need for an outside contract captain. Some of these contract captains will tell you that the feel they are the target of an underlying sense of resentment in these instances...or that they are tollerated. Others have very pleasant experiences, although I'm not sure how many would call it a stable career. There will always be the need for contract crews, but they may have to jump around from employer to employer every several years.

PurpleCRJ
09-07-2010, 10:18 PM
World English Dictionary
shortage (ˈʃɔːtɪdʒ)

— n
a deficiency or lack in the amount needed, expected, or due; deficit

So, there's a certain number of pilots needed worldwide. If there is a shortage, then there must not be enough pilots to fill those jobs (or enough qualified pilots). Perhaps this suggests that there is a deficit in the ratio of pilots:pilot jobs. There is a deficiency in the quality and number of available pilots to fill those "numerous" jobs.

I don't think this can be said. It seems like there are thousands of regional FO's with 3000 total and an ATP. These pilots can be trained to fly anything. And none of them make 50k. Everyone's got a price, and if EK has a "shortage," than the price isn't high enough. Unfortunately, neither they nor I can see a reason to offer more. Thus, they do not have a shortage. They will have no trouble hiring as many as they need.

I don't normally post so negative; so I'd like to say that at least there have been some opportunities lately. And that's all you can really ask for these days. I want (eventually) 6 figures, bay area or Hawaii base, 15 days off, and free travel. Is that too much to ask? . . . didn't seem like it when I started in this racket. Now? it might be :(

PurpleCRJ
09-07-2010, 10:20 PM
that's "pilots : pilot jobs"

and, I guess it came out negative anyway. oh well.

captjns
09-08-2010, 04:16 AM
Don't believe everything you read about the pilot shortage, there a still alot of pilot furloughed in the USA. Many foreign job have terrible work rules if any. Do you want to live in the UAE or in China. I recommend finding a job as a UAV pilot if you want to do that. The pay is great and everyone around you speaks english:eek:

Scumby... do you live in China? Do you work for a Chinese Carrier? Visiting as a crwemember on a layover or in and out does not count as a resident in China.

I have many friends in various cities in China from Beijing to Shangnai to Sheku to name a few. They enjoy the expat life. The carriers they fly with honor the terms and conditions of their contract too. Now granted they did comment on the paperwork, and time lnes are a bit long. But that' to be expected in some foreign lands.

So Scumby... do share some of your personal experiences whil you lived and worked for a Chinese carrer... I'm all eyes.;)

block30
09-08-2010, 05:53 AM
I should clarify my previous post as follows: there is no pilot shortage of well qualified US pilots. Unlike most of the world, the US has enjoyed economic development on a scale that allowed the general aviation sector to blossom, and that has produced a large number of pilots through the civilian ranks. In fact, many foriegn students come to the US because of the ready availability of flight training at relatively reasonable costs. Some US pilots would accept a position overseas, and some have been able to do so.

It is also true that there are a number of nations in which US pilots are not desired...which is to say "due to the politics of the USA, you are not welcome here." In these instances you may find requirements for a European license only. It is also true, that some US pilots who have been permited to work for foriegn carriers in countries which allow this, have found themselves living in an environment which they describe as occassionaly hostile or even dangerous. And of course, there are those carriers or those countries where most of us would rather not fly.

It is interesting to note that there is a growing population of pilots in the US that are foriegn nationals, and that many of these individuals stay in the US and work for 121 regional carriers, often from countries where a US citizen is not allowed to work and fly! At one large regional carrier I'm acquainted with, I would guess that approximately 15 to 20% of their new hires are not US citizens. I have no problem with diversity or the US as a melting pot, however, there are many furloughed and unemployed US pilots who would not be granted the same consideration in certain other countries.

Where ab initio cadets are concerned, most of these programs were started in countries where the indeginous general aviation and the military provide limited opportunity, leaving the country with a limited supply of domestic pilots. Here you may find the contract employee, often a direct entry level captain, working with a native low time ab initio pilot graduate. The program assumes that once the native pilot has the experience he'll move to the left seat and there will no longer be a need for an outside contract captain. Some of these contract captains will tell you that the feel they are the target of an underlying sense of resentment in these instances...or that they are tollerated. Others have very pleasant experiences, although I'm not sure how many would call it a stable career. There will always be the need for contract crews, but they may have to jump around from employer to employer every several years.

Who is hiring foreign nationals and what country is producing these folks? I have definitely heard some accents over the radio and it wasn't just a Sioux callsign.

You can just say "allegedly so and so" and you'll be fine. :D

NEDude
09-08-2010, 06:27 AM
Interesting that this morning I got an email from VOR holdings seeking A320 captains in China for an after tax salary of $220,000. This is up significantly from what has been offered in the past.

captfurlough
09-08-2010, 08:03 AM
Block30, I'd rather not get into "which countries" because I don't want to start any ill will.....many pilots at the regionals know exactly what I'm talking about. Again, I have no problem with the US being a melting pot...and that's exactly what built this country. But, like fair trade, fair is fair.

AIRLIFTR
09-08-2010, 10:29 AM
Interesting that this morning I got an email from VOR holdings seeking A320 captains in China for an after tax salary of $220,000. This is up significantly from what has been offered in the past.


Ya me too. But the requirements are high. If one has those requirements, he/she would already have a job, as a captain, who is gonna leave their ex: 777 capt gig to go work for China Air Cargo...in China.

Typhoonpilot
09-08-2010, 11:33 AM
Ya me too. But the requirements are high. If one has those requirements, he/she would already have a job, as a captain, who is gonna leave their ex: 777 capt gig to go work for China Air Cargo...in China.


Here's a short list, pilot's from:


EVA
Royal Brunei
Southern
Singapore
Korean
Asiana
Thai
Malaysian
Emirates
Etihad
Qatar
Mexicana





Typhoonpilot

JustAMushroom
09-08-2010, 03:44 PM
Here's a short list, pilot's from:


EVA
Royal Brunei
Southern
Singapore
Korean
Asiana
Thai
Malaysian
Emirates
Etihad
Qatar
Mexicana





Typhoonpilot

Well... maybe not Mexicana ...

atpcliff
09-08-2010, 07:27 PM
It is interesting to note that there is a growing population of pilots in the US that are foriegn nationals, and that many of these individuals stay in the US and work for 121 regional carriers, often from countries where a US citizen is not allowed to work and fly! At one large regional carrier I'm acquainted with, I would guess that approximately 15 to 20% of their new hires are not US citizens. I have no problem with diversity or the US as a melting pot, however, there are many furloughed and unemployed US pilots who would not be granted the same consideration in certain other countries.


I think what this pilot means is that there are foreign pilots working here, and why can't we work there.
To work in the US as a pilot, you need to have all your pilot qualifications, and then be a US citizen or a green-card holder (resident legal to live and work in the US). NO ONE is flying for a US airline without a passport or a green card!!!
On the other hand, US pilots can work at many, many countries without a passport or a green card.

Even in Europe, if you are a US Jet Capt, on a popular type (Airbus, etc.), and you have a lot of experience, you can get hired, WITHOUT a European license or the right to work there. The company will hire you, and then work out all the details.
Conversely, if you are a Euro Jet Capt, without a passport or a green card, you will NOT get hired by a US airline.

There ARE foreign workers who have a special work permit to work here, usually technology workers, but it has not happened in the airlines. And, when the US will require more pilots than there are available, in the future, it will be really hard to find them overseas, as not many pilots are produced overseas. That is why so many Americans are overseas. The US/Canada/Australia are about the only 3 countries capable of producing large excess numbers of pilots.

captfurlough
09-08-2010, 07:48 PM
ATPCliff,

My post did not claim that EU pilots were in this country without proper documentation. However, you are misinformed and passing along incorrect information when you insinuate that US pilots are welcome in most EU contract employment situations. While there are schools that specialize in the "conversion training" to JAA license, this is not an easy process and for most US pilots...not practical.

MANY, (not all) EU countries will not accept...either directly or indirectly...or choose not to recruit....US pilots licensed only with an FAA credential.

If anyone on this thread needs any proof of this....monitor the Rishworth of Parc recruiting websites particularly with regard to European opportunities. The fact remains that the US will allow foriegn nationals, with the proper documentation, to work in the US, while their home countries do not allow US nationals the same courtesy.

atpcliff
09-08-2010, 08:20 PM
ATPCliff,

My post did not claim that EU pilots were in this country without proper documentation. However, you are misinformed and passing along incorrect information when you insinuate that US pilots are welcome in most EU contract employment situations.
I did not state that at all. It depends on the situation.[/I]

While there are schools that specialize in the "conversion training" to JAA license, this is not an easy process and for most US pilots...not practical.
That is true. It is difficult to convert to JAA licenses, and very, very difficult to get an EU passport or the right to live and work in Europe, just as it is very difficult to get a US passport or green card. If you are doing it yourself, it is basically impossible. However, if a company that wants you is doing it, then it IS possible.[/I]

MANY, (not all) EU countries will not accept...either directly or indirectly...or choose not to recruit....US pilots licensed only with an FAA credential.
[I]From what I was told, the country does not matter. It depends on the airline/organization doing the hiring.

If anyone on this thread needs any proof of this....monitor the Rishworth of Parc recruiting websites particularly with regard to European opportunities. The fact remains that the US will allow foriegn nationals, with the proper documentation, to work in the US, while their home countries do not allow US nationals the same courtesy.
[I]The last sentence is just wrong. The US will allow a foreign citizen, with an FAA license, and a green card/passport to work in the US. If you are a US citizen, with a JAA license, and a Euro passport and/or the right-to-work in Europe, it is no problem getting a job.

What I was referring to was what the guys I flew with from Europe told me: If you had the right credentials (for example, 10,000 TT, 5000 PIC -777), then an airline/organization looking for a Capt on the -777, could hire an American, with only an FAA license and no European paperwork. The airline/organization would arrange the JAA conversion and the correct paperwork.

In fact, I was told that it was planned for me to be flying a Euro registered plane based in France. They needed FAA licensed guys. I would be sent to the Euro country registering the plane: my license would be converted, and I would be given the paperwork. It was an Eastern Euro country not now in the EU. My EU friends speculated that if it worked out as advertised, and then that country joined the EU, that I could even get an EU passport down the line. I was NOT holding my breath for that to happen, and I left that company since then....

I have seen TONS of jobs, and the Euro contractors, that do NOT hire FAA only guys. It depends on the company and the contract....and my friends told me it was only for very high time Capts on airframes that were highly in demand. My situation was an anomoly, and I would not bet on that operation happening.

captfurlough
09-08-2010, 08:28 PM
What I was referring to was what the guys I flew with from Europe told me: If you had the right credentials (for example, 10,000 TT, 5000 PIC -777), then an airline/organization looking for a Capt on the -777, could hire an American, with only an FAA license and no European paperwork. The airline/organization would arrange the JAA conversion and the correct paperwork.

In fact, I was told that it was planned for me to be flying a Euro registered plane based in France. They needed FAA licensed guys. I would be sent to the Euro country registering the plane: my license would be converted, and I would be given the paperwork. It was an Eastern Euro country not now in the EU. My EU friends speculated that if it worked out as advertised, and then that country joined the EU, that I could even get an EU passport down the line. I was NOT holding my breath for that to happen, and I left that company since then....

I have seen TONS of jobs, and the Euro contractors, that do NOT hire FAA only guys. It depends on the company and the contract....and my friends told me it was only for very high time Capts on airframes that were highly in demand. My situation was an anomoly, and I would not bet on that operation happening.

I think that in effect, you are making my point for me. I don't know what your background or qualifications are, but you apparently are the exception. It is in reality much easier, and therefore much more common, to see a foreign national with US FAA credentials, employed in the US, than it is to see a US citizen employed as a pilot in some EU countries. Other countries are much more prone to protecting their own, making it difficult to obtain a working visa. The sheer number of such visas granted here in the US, while at the same time there are thousands of unemployed US pilots, is hard to understand. I may be wrong, but my observation would be that a particular country's politics impacts the policy of its carriers. Those that will not accept the US FAA ATP can hide behind any number of rationales, but in the end the result is that the US standard, which set the standard around for world, is somehow ignored in the requirement for the JAR or JAA license. It becomes one more difficulty, along with a work Visa, that effectively minimizes the ability of US pilots to work abroad in SOME, not all, countries.

Any discussion of such sensitive topics would not be unbiased, if it were not observed, that US policy and arrogance has lead to much of the world's distaste of Americans. That said, I was merely hoping for a level playing ground when it comes to pilot employment around the world.


Please note that I do not include the Middle East here, as they rely heavily on US recruited pilots.

KoruPilot
09-09-2010, 01:36 AM
It's easier to see an EU qualified pilot flying in ANY country versus the opposite. Unless you have a JAR licence it does not matter where in the world you come from, including a place like New Zealand where they too have a plethora of unrealistic and unnecessary exams.

My point would be that I often see Americans complaining that they are unfairly treated overseas while apparently everybody and their dog can come fly in the US. It's funny, and I mean no offense as I think US pilots are generally pretty slick, but nobody else complains about what you are complaining about and many an Asian country is full of expat pilots, very many of them American. I would go on, but you get the point.

You seam pretty soared on the industry Captfurlough, and I'll make an assumption from your handle as to why. The reality is however that there are a great deal of opportunities out there for US pilots to make not only good money, but commute to/live in the US. My employer, Great Wall, pays very well, treats the pilots very well (old posts on pprune are just that, old posts) and practically bases the American pilots we have in the US. But, do you think we can get the interest of US drivers. . . not a chance. Very few of you guy's want to leave the motherland, and that's just reality. Your other problem is that your unions have allowed your regional carriers to get away with hiring basically zero time pilots to warm seats for next to nothing. And who's fault is that? Heck, with next to no time and an NG rating I can go to Indonesia, get a job making more money than the US regional guys and be living in a country where I can actually survive on my wages.

Nobody ever said there was a shortage of people who happen to have a pilots licence by the way. Your point on minimum requirements is quite correct. . . perhaps the US regionals should be doing the same thing.

Yup, not too many US pilots in the EU. Not too many of anybody else either. Heaps of US pilots at the Japanese carriers, as well as Korean, Eva, EK, CX etc.

I'm not the highest time pilot in the world, big fat zero jet command, but I do know the contract game. I start looking for a job and I get interviews. I then can pick who I want to fly for. I do go into it with a very positive attitude however, and the easiest way to not get hired is to show up for an interview and make quite obvious that massive chip on your shoulder. Sorry, had to be said.

By the by, I'm Canadian and have been hired by Air NZ and Great Wall (essentially SQ Cargo at the time). Nobody ever decided not to hire me because of my accent.

But hey, good luck with it, stay positive and perhaps take a bit of a chance with a move. Sorry to anybody who has been messed about by the big US carriers; what they've been allowed to get away with should be criminal (of course in many "foreign" countries it would be).

dundem
09-09-2010, 02:19 AM
Sounds like the typical "Immigrants Are Stealing Our Jobs" op-ed that's now (unfortunately) widely available. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but "immigrants" need the legal right to live and work in the U.S. before they can get a job here. Again, subject to verification, every pilot at a U.S. airline has either a "Green Card" and SS card or a U.S. passport.

My sim partner from my last initial training has a U.S. passport, but because he was born and raised in NZ, he has a distinctive Kiwi accent. He would sound like an "immigrant", I guess.

That said, the EU is protective of their jobs- rightly so, I believe. It keeps the barrier to entry higher than in the U.S. and makes the job worth having. As far as I know, the U.S. has the largest number of exported pilots around the world; myself included.

That said, I remember when the furlough at Spirit was on the horizon, some pilots made comments that they would rather collect unemployment than leave the U.S. and other illogical assertions. I wouldn't doubt that these same guys/girls would turn around and complain about immigrants stealing their jobs.

PLovett
09-09-2010, 03:51 AM
What atpcliff was getting at, I think, is that many European airlines will accept non-EU pilots with extensive qualifications as direct entry captains.

These direct-entry crews are not required to go through the usual hoops and hurdles of converting their licence to a JAA one as the airline will arrange that. The kick in the process is that the licence issued by the JAA is specific to that airline so the person is tied to them.

Ryanair, for example, is such an airline and is still advertising for direct-entry captains.

captfurlough
09-09-2010, 04:30 AM
Ok guys....sometimes things can be read into posts. Please let me clarify things here. This thread started out as the "there's a looming pilot shortage in Asia" thread, and my first post attempted to walk through that myth. I pointed out how the recruiting requirements are the stiffest I've ever seen, in Asia in particular, and in general that's because of the available supply of type rated and experienced pilots. When you see those requirements drop to only a type rating, then to no type rating but say 5000 hours PIC jet time, then to 2500 hours jet time, etc., you'll know that the available pool of pilots is drying up. But the opposite is what's happened over the last year or year and a half, driven, IHO, by the world economies and the resultant furloughs of well qualified individuals, particularly in the US.

Please do not stretch anything I've said to mean "the immigrant's are taking our jobs".....that's not where I was going. We are all immigrants in this country. That said, my point was that we are seeing an increase in recent years of foriegn nationals flying in this country, while at the same time you will not see US pilots flying in their countries even when there are opportunities for pilots there. The reasons are many...and we've talked about them. But the argument that a US pilot with a JAR license and a visa can get a job there is moot...because it is extremely difficult to get. The US concept of freedom and a welcoming approach to people from all over the world means that we have more of an open door than some other countries, again as evidenced by the number of foriegn individuals we see here in the regionals. (Many of these pilots are delightfully interesting to fly with, and I count several as my friends.)

That said, I did not imply that US pilots are at a competitive disadvantage everywhere around the world. The far east and the middle east are obviously recruiting US pilots in fairly large numbers. Again, the US has produced the largest number of guys because of the size of their industry, but there are many UK, Canadian, Austrailian, German, and other's out there too.

I did note that in some places, ex pat pilots have felt uncomfortable resentment, and I believe that's because of US politics and reputation in general. Unfortunately I think we've all seen some Americans abroad.....and I'm NOT talking about pilots here....but American tourists...with a rather arrogant approach that alienated many around the world. In my experience pilots tend to be more well traveled and have a sense of being a guest in other countries or cultures.

And to the poster that said the US has created it's own problems in the airline industry....you're exactly right.

captfurlough
09-09-2010, 04:46 AM
KoruPilot,

If I came across as "having a massive chip on my shoulder" I appologize. I don't think that those who know me would describe me that way.
By the way, just out of curiosity, are Americans allowed to work for a Canadian carrier? I know we have several Canadian pilots on our seniority list.

rotorhead1026
09-09-2010, 05:27 AM
I did note that in some places, ex pat pilots have felt uncomfortable resentment, and I believe that's because of US politics and reputation in general. Unfortunately I think we've all seen some Americans abroad.....and I'm NOT talking about pilots here....but American tourists...with a rather arrogant approach that alienated many around the world

Tourists are tourists, and I've seen "stupid" behavior out of all nationalities. Americans haven't cornered the market on this at all - believe me. The resentment I've seen was based more on xenophobia and jealousy, with politics used as an excuse. You just can't please some people ... :(

teeb57
09-09-2010, 02:44 PM
KoruPilot,

If I came across as "having a massive chip on my shoulder" I appologize. I don't think that those who know me would describe me that way.
By the way, just out of curiosity, are Americans allowed to work for a Canadian carrier? I know we have several Canadian pilots on our seniority list.


Ya nailed everything dead-on in your last several posts.

To answer your question, I applied for a DC-10 job operating out of Canada two years ago after being furloughed from Gemini. They at least had the decency and honesty to tell me 'Canadian citizen's only-unless there are no other applicants to fill the position'. Their words, not mine.

I feel your pain too, Bubba

KoruPilot
09-09-2010, 04:55 PM
An American would have the same ability to fly in Canada as a Canadian would in the US; green card, work permit etc. The difference with other countries, including Canada and NZ is that you'd need permanent residence. It would have been almost impossible for me to get into the US to fly as a Canadian. I would have required some sort of in, like being married or getting a passport through family ties.

I'm assuming Teeb that you looked at Kelowna Flightcraft. I flew for them a fair few years ago and we had a couple nationalities working for us, a number of Iranians specifically. They had immigrated through the proper channels and had PR visas, much the same way I assume they could have if they wanted to get to the US. I'm not sure who crewed the DC10's to begin with, but I'd assume they had plenty of good candidates within the company (barring the few training pilots to get going they would have needed), and otherwise their seniority dictates that you start as an FE on the B727. Likely something you would not have bothered with?

But, as this thread is 'Asia Hurting For Pilots', and as a pilot flying in Asia I'm what you might call privy to the going's on in the contract world, I can say that there is indeed a serious shortage of pilots over here and I can't imagine you having a problem getting a job as an American. Singapore Cargo is one airline that has recently started recruiting again by the way, and with DC10 time you'd look pretty good I would imagine.

My apologies to Captfurlough as I should not have been so blunt, and as I mentioned I am very sympathetic to your plight in the US over the past number of years; bloody awfull stuff. My point is that there are jobs over here that are pretty decent and with the right attitude I don't see why anyone with the right kind of time couldn't land one of them and be pretty happy. But perhaps that's just me.

The Dominican
09-09-2010, 05:28 PM
My point is that there are jobs over here that are pretty decent and with the right attitude I don't see why anyone with the right kind of time couldn't land one of them and be pretty happy. But perhaps that's just me.

There are a lot of people flying abroad that enjoy what they are doing but of course flying for a foreign carrier is not for everyone, you have to be an individual that doesn't allow for different ways of looking at things to bother you, you can't be wondering as to why? things are the way they are and just adapt, you must have a sense of adventure and explore the food and culture of the place to really enjoy it. There is no place like the US, but the same could be said of Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, The Middle East, every place has its own sense of identity and if you do your homework and find the culture that suits you then you can be really satisfied with living within that society, notice that at any time Koru or myself or any of the guys working abroad has mentioned A/C's "they treat us well" "I enjoy where I live" is the phrases that you see mentioned again and again, don't go to a company because you like the equipment or even just based on salary, you better get a sense on how it is to live there and talk to pilots that are working there to get a sense on the company culture because that is what will determine you level of satisfaction with the job, the new airplane smell fades away after a couple of months on the line and guess what you will be left to deal with? The company culture and the place where you are based, if you are not truly happy with those two you will have a tough time abroad regardless of how shiny the aluminum tube is

teeb57
09-09-2010, 06:05 PM
Thanks for explaining that KoruPilot. You're correct, it was the Kelowna Group. However, I got my initial F/E rating on the 727 & would have jumped at the chance. With everyone applying to Kelowna from the defunct Gemini, I heard of one ground school instructor making it on there. There may have been more but that particular fella was the only one I knew to make it.

I know it's not easy to become eligible for work here in the USA, especicially in this industry. My hat's off to all those who have tried. But I don't believe anyone is saying the rules are all that different. I do believe that the ratio of foreign pilots here compared to USA pilots working abroad, excepting Asia, are disproportionate.

I can remember about 20 years ago jumpseating on a UPS 727. After boarding, I had to ask myself if I'd somehow mistakenly gotten on a British Airways flight, two of the guys having British accents. I believe you'll be very hard pressed to find a tobacco chewin southern like myself filling the cockpits at B.A. any time soon.

I don't want to turn this into a tear jerker, but I would be a little remiss if I didn't say what a pleasure it's been to work with all the folks who have crossed my path after pulling up roots and coming here from another country, but i don't understand the disparity. There's no denying it here.

KoruPilot
09-10-2010, 01:03 AM
Well said Dominican.

Yea, that makes sense Teeb. Don't know how badly a tobacco chewing southern boy would want to even be in a BA cockpit frankly, but you probably would have liked Flightcraft; I certainly enjoyed my time there.

scumby
09-10-2010, 01:07 AM
I was furloughed from my job in the USA. My new company had an agreement to work for a Spanish carrier named Futura during the summer only. I lived in Scotland and Ireland. The company I worked for in Europe let us fly with our US licenses, but if we wanted to get an JAA license we had to take 14 test and a sim check. But, when the winter came the Spanish pilot came to the USA and went to indoc, sim check and a ATP written and got a US license by my american employer. So, how is that fair. These test in Europe are reliculious. No waiver for experience. Plus, they expire if you aren't current in Europe after 5 years. It was a lot of fun working in Europe but I will never take the stupid tests they require.

KoruPilot
09-10-2010, 04:04 AM
Unfortunately it's turned into a make work project for Oxford University aviation, among others. Not long ago a person with at least medium command jet time could pretty much convert straight across but that has recently changed. My guess is that the training organizations in question pulled a little political clout so they could continue making very good money teaching Boeing and Airbus pilots all that they needed to know about the inner workings of a constant speed prop and a pressure altimeter. Even in NZ, where there are (I think) ten exams in total, an ATP from an ICAO country can write the Law and convert over. Though that they would not accept my B744 training from SQ was a bit of a joke; they had to have signed off personally on the training org. Good thing Canada is respecting the ICAO recommendations. . . too bad the EU isn't.

But hey, you can still work in Turkey, which is pretty cool.

jet320
09-10-2010, 04:12 AM
is not Asia but close.....


UAE’s two largest airlines are gearing up for one of the biggest recruitment drives in aviation history, with plans to hire 80,000 pilots, cabin crew and other staff over the next decade, The National reported on Sunday.

The immense growth in hiring at Emirates airline and Etihad Airways comes at a tough time for the industry in many other parts of the world.

The UAE carriers’ extra staff will be needed to operate hundreds of new aircraft that are on order. The number of aircraft being bought is expected to increase this month when representatives of the region’s big carriers gather at the Farnborough International Airshow to announce their latest orders, the report said.

In Abu Dhabi, Etihad is already one of the largest employers, with about 8,000 staff. By 2020, when all of its planes have been delivered, it should have 27,000 employees.

Emirates Group has even greater staffing needs. The company, which includes the airline and a global network of ground handling, travel and ticketing agencies, will double in size by 2020 to a fleet of about 300 aircraft, from 149 today, The National reported.

“It took us 25 years to get to 40,000 employees, but in the next 10 years we will double that to 80,000,” said Rick Helliwell, the vice-president of recruitment at Emirates. Factoring in current employees who retire or move on, Emirates will require more than 60,000 new employees over the decade, including 2,500 pilots and 20,000 cabin crew, Mr Helliwell said

captfurlough
09-10-2010, 09:49 AM
I would love to fly for one of the carriers mentioned in the previous posts. I was born and raised abroad, and have a real respect for the opportunities that cultures other than the US can provide. They open your eyes to different ways of looking at things, new experiences with food and living arrangements, and at the same time you'll find that people are people everywhere, who most often cherish the same things we do, and sometimes do it in a better fashion than we do! Most Asian cultures are not as crass or self centered as we are in the US. Most Asian cultures still believe in respect....a concept that has been all but lost on the last generation of Americans.

What prevents me (and others) from doing so, in the far east where it's feasible for me to communte, is not a bad attitude, or an unwillingness to commute, or a history of employment problems; it's the very stringent and inflexable requirements. I have more than 10,000 hours of PIC jet time in narrow bodys with gross weights of 150,000 pounds or more, but unless you have the type rating with 500 hours of PIC time on the carrier's aircraft, it's no dice. Even if you do, you still have to meet age requirements of approximately 45 to 47 for F/O positions, or as low as 50 for some direct entry level captain positions. In addition, you have to be current with a P/C in the applicable aircraft within the last 6 months, and current with 3 takeoffs and landings in the last 90 days. For those of us who are furloughed, this becomes more difficult with each passing week. If there is a real shortage, we'll begin to see these requirements loosened a bit to tap an otherwise extremely well qualified group of US pilots.

teeb57
09-10-2010, 06:55 PM
I would love to fly for one of the carriers mentioned in the previous posts. I was born and raised abroad, and have a real respect for the opportunities that cultures other than the US can provide. They open your eyes to different ways of looking at things, new experiences with food and living arrangements, and at the same time you'll find that people are people everywhere, who most often cherish the same things we do, and sometimes do it in a better fashion than we do! Most Asian cultures are not as crass or self centered as we are in the US. Most Asian cultures still believe in respect....a concept that has been all but lost on the last generation of Americans.

What prevents me (and others) from doing so, in the far east where it's feasible for me to communte, is not a bad attitude, or an unwillingness to commute, or a history of employment problems; it's the very stringent and inflexable requirements. I have more than 10,000 hours of PIC jet time in narrow bodys with gross weights of 150,000 pounds or more, but unless you have the type rating with 500 hours of PIC time on the carrier's aircraft, it's no dice. Even if you do, you still have to meet age requirements of approximately 45 to 47 for F/O positions, or as low as 50 for some direct entry level captain positions. In addition, you have to be current with a P/C in the applicable aircraft within the last 6 months, and current with 3 takeoffs and landings in the last 90 days. For those of us who are furloughed, this becomes more difficult with each passing week. If there is a real shortage, we'll begin to see these requirements loosened a bit to tap an otherwise extremely well qualified group of US pilots.

Yep capt. that sums up my career almost as well as this does:

Login | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=154122181057&ref=mf)

captfurlough
09-10-2010, 07:35 PM
Yep capt. that sums up my career almost as well as this does:

Login | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=154122181057&ref=mf)


Pretty funny!