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View Full Version : embry riddle or florida tech???


cometwins
08-26-2006, 05:20 PM
Hi
I'm a high school senior and I really need a help on choosing college.
I was wondering if any of you can tell me which school (Embry Riddle or Florida Tech) has better flight training and academic courses for airline pilots.
Also, if any of you know could you please tell me which school's undergrad. students perform better at their jobs?
And lastly, if you could can you please tell me the ups and downs for each schools?
Thank you


Pilotpip
08-26-2006, 05:59 PM
There are a number of fourms discussing this very topic. Try reading through the older posts on this fourm.

Slice
08-26-2006, 06:59 PM
I'm sure Tech has more and better looking chicks. Should make the choice easier for you!


Pilotpip
08-26-2006, 08:31 PM
why would you (or anybody for that matter) want to spend that kind of cash for a job that wouldn't be able to put food on the table when trying to pay back tens of thousands in college loans? What happens if this industry tanks again and you're out of work and don't have a degree that any other industry would find relevant?

I went to an aviation school but if I had to do it over again, I probably wouldn't. I recieved some good scholarships and had a core curriculum that would allow me to attain another BS from my university's business school with an extra year of college if the need arises. I'm lucky, I don't have a ton of debt but I don't like being 25 and living at home because buidling time as a CFI doesn't pay the bills if I rent an apartment. I could defer the loans and have a nice place but I'd rather get rid of those lousy bastards fast so the creditors don't get too much of my money.

10driver
08-28-2006, 07:37 PM
As a riddle grad, I must say you cant go wrong. Fun school with a great reputation. I had a great time. I didnt go through the flight program, but whatever you do there, you will get your moneys worth. I got a Civil Engineering degree

Laxrox43
08-28-2006, 09:53 PM
Slice,

I went to FL Tech for a few years...and sir...there are more girls there then Riddle...but the quality is lacking;)

Now, there are a few good looking ones there...but the 'know' it --- if you know what I mean. They stick to their click and they are really stuck up.

We will let the kid decide:p

Lax

Uncle Bose
08-28-2006, 10:03 PM
Have you read anything on this forum regarding aviation schools at all? There's no shortage of threads on the subject. Read the "Key Alternative Loan & Bankruptcy" thread on the Money Talk board, and "Embry Riddle: to go or not to go" on the Flight Training board.
The consensus of those with actual experience and hindsight is that an aviation school, and ESPECIALLY an aviation degree, is a bad idea. Graduating ERAU or FIT with a degree completely useless in the real world, while starting your pilot career not making enough money to pay your $1000 a month student loan payments, is the worst possible way to get started.
Neither school is well-ranked, and both have low admittance standards (around 80%). You'll find their real-world reputations are a far cry from what you'd hear from their recruiting establishments.
Get your ratings at a local FBO, and attend a respectable state school (you mentioned the UC system in another thread) for an in-demand business or engineering degree. The idea that an ERAU or FIT degree would be more advantageous than one from UCLA or Cal is laughable.

WhiteH2O
08-29-2006, 07:24 AM
From someone almost done with a BS in aviation, I would recomend listening to the last post by Uncle Bose. Much better off getting an education that is worth something in the world and getting your flying done at either your FBO or Allatps.

LAfrequentflyer
08-29-2006, 07:47 AM
From someone almost done with a BS in aviation, I would recomend listening to the last post by Uncle Bose. Much better off getting an education that is worth something in the world and getting your flying done at either your FBO or Allatps.


BS in Aviation is right - in more than one way...If its not too late and you can afford it - try to get a minor in business / finance / or accounting...

-LAFF

WhiteH2O
08-29-2006, 08:18 AM
It is too late, I am going to go toward a Masters in Business or accounting once I finish the B.S. in Aviation. I will be done with this degree this year, so when I am done, I will find some Masters program to do.

Uncle Bose
08-29-2006, 08:24 AM
It is too late, I am going to go toward a Masters in Business or accounting once I finish the B.S. in Aviation. I will be done with this degree this year, so when I am done, I will find some Masters program to do.

Have you thought about law school? It's only three years; about the same amount of time it'd take to get an MBA, including the undergrad prep work you'd need.

LAfrequentflyer
08-29-2006, 08:52 AM
Have you thought about law school? It's only three years; about the same amount of time it'd take to get an MBA, including the undergrad prep work you'd need.


Good point...

ToiletDuck
08-29-2006, 09:07 AM
Florida Tech. Go to an actual University with a Football team and tons of women. There are a lot of pilot out there from Embry. It's hard to explain it but it's just like a tech school. There is a lot to college besides just getting the education. There is the life. The development of one's self ect. Some of the guys I train went there as engineers and when I ask them how it was they always say... "It was O.K.". Unlike an A&M Aggie or Baylor Bear where usually respond with "So f'ing awesome. We rocked out with our c#$k out!!!" w00t!

ToiletDuck
08-29-2006, 09:08 AM
Have you thought about law school? It's only three years; about the same amount of time it'd take to get an MBA, including the undergrad prep work you'd need.

To go into law or even get your MBA you need to have met several prerequisets. In my aviation degree I basically got none of them.

Uncle Bose
08-29-2006, 10:11 AM
With a bachelor's degree, you meet the prerequisites for law school. Just put together a good resume, a personal statement, get some letters of recommendation, and score well on the LSAT. For the MBA, you'd need a few semesters (2-3) of undergrad prep work before starting the actual MBA program.

I agree that college is much more than an academic education. A tiny school with no social atmosphere and comparatively low diversity of activities and interests among the students doesn't exactly stimulate personal growth.

By the way, FIT has neither a good football team (they don't have one at all!) nor 'tons' of women.

ToiletDuck
08-29-2006, 11:50 AM
lol i didn't know that about FIT I was just talking about Universities in general lol. I'm in Texas if you can't tell.

LAfrequentflyer
08-29-2006, 11:56 AM
Don't understand the rush to get started flying. Finish school , then train , CFI, and get hired by a regional...You'll be in your mid-twenties and have had a few life experiences and been laid a few times...At regional pay most will be living with mom/dad - at least give your parents a few years of piece and quiet...

-LAFF

N261ND
08-31-2006, 04:59 AM
a couple of things:

first, no company will care that you have a minor.

second, don't go to any kind of grad school until you spend some time working after undergrad and are sure you NEED IT and want to. talk about loans......:eek: you guys are complaining about flight costs? do you think grad school is cheap? NO job is guarenteed after grad school. NO job will come to you and. You have to go after it.

third, as a CFI you CAN put food on the table. Don't let people tell you otherwise. Get a second job...work nights. Do what you have to do. Some people think that things should be handed to you. No profession is easy so improvise and adapt. It CAN be done. Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.

fourth, an aviation degree is not worthless. I go to an aviation college. You think the airlines are only takeoff's, ILS's, and landing's? think again. the extra knowledge you get from an aviation degree is priceless. For example, If you want to fly for an airline, you better know how a pilot's union works and what your getting into, It is CUT THROAT. not sure if they teach that at FBO's.:rolleyes:

JMT21
08-31-2006, 09:04 AM
Don't understand the rush to get started flying. Finish school , then train , CFI, and get hired by a regional...You'll be in your mid-twenties and have had a few life experiences and been laid a few times...At regional pay most will be living with mom/dad - at least give your parents a few years of piece and quiet...

-LAFF

True story. Go to a public university and major in something other than aviation. Late 20's/early 30's isn't too old to start your career as a pilot.

If you really want to help yourself out, hit up one of the military acadamies. You can't go wrong.

Uncle Bose
08-31-2006, 10:47 AM
an aviation degree is not worthless. I go to an aviation college.

That pretty much sums up the supporters of the aviation degree. "It's great! It has to be, cuz I'm doing it!!!"
Sorry, but you lack perspective, experience, hindsight, and therefore, credibility. Those who got their aviation degrees years ago, and have been working as pilots since, are much more valuable sources of advice. Nearly every single one of those types in this forum who have weighed in on this subject have said they'd get a different degree, and I'd bet they sounded a lot like you when they were in college.

N261ND
08-31-2006, 11:03 AM
well uncle bose, why don't you fill us in a little more on why an aviation degree is so worthless, because i'm still not sold. and don't say money, because any investment in your education is priceless.

If you think you can't get a job with a non-aviation organization with an aviation degree...dream on. A person with a BS in aviation has just as good of chance of getting a non-aviation related job as someone else...granted its not a specialty, like enginieering. Like I said...you have to go after the jobs....speaking of perspective, how long has it been since you've been on the job market? That is what we are talking about. we're talking about now, not 20-30 years ago, or "years ago", as you stated. This is a flight training forum for persons early in their training.

I may lack hindsight, because I'm not 50 years old, flying for a legacy, but I do have first hand experience and perspective of what its like to be a RECENT college grad.

I may lack "perspective, experience, hindsight, and therefore, credibility" but i do know that hard work can take you anywhere you want to go.

If you have a degree in aviation and want to get out of aviation DO IT! An aviation degree is just as good as mostly any other degree.
You said it yourself Uncle Bose: "With a bachelor's degree, you meet the prerequisites for law school." think about that.

Don't blame the degrees, the schools, the profession...blame yourself for not working hard enough and persevering to go after what you want.

Uncle Bose
08-31-2006, 12:35 PM
That's right. This particular forum is for those early on in their training, and they come here to seek advice from those with actual experience. All of you aviation degree supporters getting together and congratulating each other on what a wonderful education you're getting, without any perspective on its real-world worth, is NOT valuable advice. In fact, it's detrimental.

Now let me explain what I mean by "useless" aviation degree. It grants no advantages to a job seeker in any field, including its own. You're right in that it qualifies you for a great many jobs that don't require a specialized degree. The problem is, so does any other degree. Any other degree, which could cost about a quarter as much. You claim cost isn't a valid argument due to the inherent pricelessness of any investment in education, (incidentally, right after questioning the investment required for a graduate degree), but when there are alternatives of lower cost and equal effectiveness, cost becomes a major consideration.

To summarize, the aviation degree isn't the only pointless degree out there. Any degree that has no advantages over another in the job market is basically pointless. Unfortunately, the big-name aviation degrees cost three to four times as much as a typical liberal arts degree at a state college, with no inherent advantages over any of those in any industry, including their own, to justify that cost.

LAfrequentflyer
08-31-2006, 01:00 PM
True story. Go to a public university and major in something other than aviation. Late 20's/early 30's isn't too old to start your career as a pilot.

If you really want to help yourself out, hit up one of the military acadamies. You can't go wrong.

Even in your 40s your not too old to start an aviation career. There are hurdles. However, a motivated / studious person can still get to a regional in their 40s.

-LAFF

JMT21
08-31-2006, 03:54 PM
It grants no advantages to a job seeker in any field, including its own.

For reduced mins at Horizon they specify that the applicant must have a B.S. aviation degree. I'm sure that the other airlines that reduce their mins would also expect you to have an aviation degree.

Any other degree, which could cost about a quarter as much. You claim cost isn't a valid argument due to the inherent pricelessness of any investment in education, (incidentally, right after questioning the investment required for a graduate degree), but when there are alternatives of lower cost and equal effectiveness, cost becomes a major consideration.

Unfortunately, the big-name aviation degrees cost three to four times as much as a typical liberal arts degree at a state college, with no inherent advantages over any of those in any industry, including their own, to justify that cost.

Tuition is the same for aviation majors as it is for any other major. The flight expenses are separate, but your going to have to pay for the ratings at some point anyway. I can't speak for the other aviation schools, but UND's flight expenses are on the high end of the average. You get what you pay for.

I would not advise anyone to get an aviaton degree, but someone has got to keep you honest. An aviation degree has worked out fine for many and not so well for some. It's important to think about what you would do if tomarrow you couldn't ever fly again. Have a back up plan is the main thing.

Uncle Bose
09-01-2006, 07:47 AM
someone has got to keep you honest.
I appreciate that, and I'm glad to see you strive for honestly as well. Even after espousing the (alleged) advantages of an aviation degree, you still recommend against it...that says a lot.

More often than not these promises of reduced minimums sound great in a recruiting presentation, but don't exist in practice. Regardless, how much further below 1000 TT can minimums go? Three or four months less time of being a CFI isn't worth the indebtedness.

Tuition is the same for aviation majors as it is for any other major--at THAT particular school. The aviation majors paying private or nonresident tuition fees (which is most of them) would be paying far less as residents at a good state school, many of which are vastly more reputable and more highly ranked than UND, FIT, or ERAU.

Aviation degrees have worked out fine for many (if you consider "fine" landing a job just as easily attained with another degree), but non-aviation degrees have worked out fine for many more. Again, my contention is not that aviation degrees CAN'T work out--it's just that there are other options that don't result in newly minted CFIs and regional FOs barely (if at all) able to cover monthly payments on student loans, let alone living expenses. There are far better ways to start a flight training career.

I will concede that the tuition cost at UND is reasonable for many, given their special state-based resident categories, compared to ERAU and FIT. However, the cost isn't just monetary. There's also a cost in time, which is four years spent confined to a tiny academic realm, completely useless and irrelevant to any facet of existence aside from flying airplanes. The natural progression of flight training and subsequent instructing is what's necessary for a solid foundation in an aviation career, not a degree program bloated and padded with simple fluff in order to stretch vocational training into the 120 semester hours required for accreditation.

JMT21
09-01-2006, 09:14 AM
Even after espousing the (alleged) advantages of an aviation degree, you still recommend against it...that says a lot.

I 'espoused' one advantage which, as far as I can tell, is the only one, dick.

More often than not these promises of reduced minimums sound great in a recruiting presentation, but don't exist in practice. Regardless, how much further below 1000 TT can minimums go?


They do exist in practice, in fact it's pretty common. How much further below 1000 TT can they go?...I've seen over 400 hours; 300 happens all the time.

Aviation degrees have worked out fine for many (if you consider "fine" landing a job just as easily attained with another degree), but non-aviation degrees have worked out fine for many more.


I consider 'fine' to be all the pilots out there who have earned an aviaiton degree with the sole intention of being a pilot; they are successful and doing what they love.

Again, my contention is not that aviation degrees CAN'T work out--it's just that there are other options that don't result in newly minted CFIs and regional FOs barely (if at all) able to cover monthly payments on student loans, let alone living expenses. There are far better ways to start a flight training career.

I agree...it's reason I'm no longer an aviaiton major.

There's also a cost in time, which is four years spent confined to a tiny academic realm, completely useless and irrelevant to any facet of existence aside from flying airplanes. The natural progression of flight training and subsequent instructing is what's necessary for a solid foundation in an aviation career, not a degree program bloated and padded with simple fluff in order to stretch vocational training into the 120 semester hours required for accreditation.

If you are talking about UND with that your pretty far off...like out in the weeds on this one.

As I said before, I wouldn't recommend an aviation degree to anyone. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone go into debt to finance an aviation degree as there are much better ways of going about getting your ratings and experience.

Whats your background Bose? You sound like a scorned man. Are a professional pilot or aviation major?

N261ND
09-01-2006, 09:17 AM
I appreciate that, and I'm glad to see you strive for honestly as well. Even after espousing the (alleged) advantages of an aviation degree, you still recommend against it...that says a lot.

More often than not these promises of reduced minimums sound great in a recruiting presentation, but don't exist in practice. Regardless, how much further below 1000 TT can minimums go? Three or four months less time of being a CFI isn't worth the indebtedness.

Tuition is the same for aviation majors as it is for any other major--at THAT particular school. The aviation majors paying private or nonresident tuition fees (which is most of them) would be paying far less as residents at a good state school, many of which are vastly more reputable and more highly ranked than UND, FIT, or ERAU.

Aviation degrees have worked out fine for many (if you consider "fine" landing a job just as easily attained with another degree), but non-aviation degrees have worked out fine for many more. Again, my contention is not that aviation degrees CAN'T work out--it's just that there are other options that don't result in newly minted CFIs and regional FOs barely (if at all) able to cover monthly payments on student loans, let alone living expenses. There are far better ways to start a flight training career.

I will concede that the tuition cost at UND is reasonable for many, given their special state-based resident categories, compared to ERAU and FIT. However, the cost isn't just monetary. There's also a cost in time, which is four years spent confined to a tiny academic realm, completely useless and irrelevant to any facet of existence aside from flying airplanes. The natural progression of flight training and subsequent instructing is what's necessary for a solid foundation in an aviation career, not a degree program bloated and padded with simple fluff in order to stretch vocational training into the 120 semester hours required for accreditation.



Actually, reduced minimums do exist in practice. I'm doing an internship with a regional as we speak. I have been told by my boss that I will have NO hiring minimums if I don't completely screw up. None. That will save me more than a couple of months of instructing.

"There's also a cost in time, which is four years spent confined to a tiny academic realm, completely useless and irrelevant to any facet of existence aside from flying airplanes."

---wow--->

UND has a strong liberal arts foundation surrounded by a variety of professional and specialized programs. UND is one of only 46 public universities in the nation with both accredited graduate schools of law and medicine.

UND enrolls 12,954 students (Fall 2005) in 191 fields of study from baccalaureate through doctoral and professional degrees.

But I agree with most of what is said above...very valid points. Glad we could find some common ground!:) :D

Uncle Bose
09-01-2006, 09:27 AM
I 'espoused' one advantage which, as far as I can tell, is the only one, dick.
Name calling? On a message board? I'm shocked.
They do exist in practice, in fact it's pretty common. How much further below 1000 TT can they go?...I've seen over 400 hours; 300 happens all the time.
Which, again, isn't worth the years of student loan debt.
I consider 'fine' to be all the pilots out there who have earned an aviaiton degree with the sole intention of being a pilot; they are successful and doing what they love.
Then "even more fine" would be all the pilots out there who have earned a non-aviation degree with the sole intention of being a pilot; they are successful and doing what they love, and aren't drowning in debt.
If you are talking about UND with that your pretty far off...like out in the weeds on this one.
As a UND student, you're not without your own biases...every student thinks their school is a cut above the others.
Whats your background Bose? You sound like a scorned man. Are a professional pilot or aviation major?
Both...although I'm in the process of correcting the mistake that was the aviation degree.

Uncle Bose
09-01-2006, 09:44 AM
Actually, reduced minimums do exist in practice. I'm doing an internship with a regional as we speak. I have been told by my boss that I will have NO hiring minimums if I don't completely screw up. None. That will save me more than a couple of months of instructing.
Sounds like a deal, but whether or not that's a good thing is an entirely new debate.
UND has a strong liberal arts foundation surrounded by a variety of professional and specialized programs. UND is one of only 46 public universities in the nation with both accredited graduate schools of law and medicine.
UND enrolls 12,954 students (Fall 2005) in 191 fields of study from baccalaureate through doctoral and professional degrees.
None of that really matters in this context, since we're talking about aviation degrees. From the macro view, however, UND is a third tier national university with a 73% acceptance rate, and no ranked programs to its name. For ND residents that's fine, but nothing to pay out-of-state fees for.

JMT21
09-01-2006, 10:37 AM
From the macro view, however, UND is a third tier national university with a 73% acceptance rate, and no ranked programs to its name. For ND residents that's fine, but nothing to pay out-of-state fees for.

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell a pilot 'drowning in debt' with an over priced aviation degree would know about college selection...but thanks for the expert opinion anyway.:rolleyes:

Uncle Bose
09-01-2006, 11:19 AM
I'm still trying to figure out what the hell a pilot 'drowning in debt' with an over priced aviation degree would know about college selection...but thanks for the expert opinion anyway.:rolleyes:
The numbers given above aren't opinion. They're easily verifiable fact, using the four major independent college ranking sources (Business Week, Wall Street Journal, U.S. News & World Report, Princeton Review) as a guide. I used them all to aid in selecting a graduate program. Of course, college guides are only part of the story. Real-world utility of a degree is also a factor. As far as my choice for an undergrad major goes, if I had known then what I know now... Luckily, I only did three semesters at the aviation school.

flynavyj
09-01-2006, 12:53 PM
So in the end, you will need to earn your flight certificates despite what type of college plan you choose to pursue correct? So, if you go to the FBO and fly and get a degree in say...art history, you are essentially destined to be the curator of a museum or an art teacher (if flying fails) and you're still trying to figure how you're going to pay off the loans for flying (ps...how do you get the loans for flying also? i'm not familiar w/ that, as student loans will cover flight expenses at the university...then you've also gotta compare the insterest rates you'll be paying on your flying at the FBO compared to the normally "lower" interest rates of the student loans) The basic end is you're going to be spending the money on the flying anyway, maybe saving a dollar or two w/ the FBO route.

When you're finished w/ ur degree in an unrelated field and have all your ratings you're probably equally as qualified as any other pilot candidate who applies to say...the regional world. You don't have quite enough time to get on w/ them...yet....and you have a degree under your belt. So, you've gotta be poor and build that time, so you'll probably end up CFIng like eveyrone else right? So what's the real difference, other than the aviation universities (or universities w/ aviation programs) may have a bridge program to get you that interview in less time, so you can start paying off those student loans.

If it was up to me, i'd just say...go to college and major in something that you're going to enjoy. there are probably some people out there that'll tell you to major in pharmacuticals (sp?) becuase they pay great $$, which is true. But what about the guy who majored in that and now is thinking of a different career field becuase he hates his job? If you think a business degree is better than an aviation degree, more power to you, you'll blend in with the masses of other individuals w/ business degrees and find that you NEED to go to grad school to TRY to make yourself stand out. If not, every resume' looks exactly the same.

If i could do it again, i probably wouldn't change much. I'm not disappointed in my education (Central Missouri State University). Got to have the college experience, flying experience, and take all those stupid Gen-Ed's that everyone takes. Just because you have to get 120 credit hours, doesn't mean you're not going to suffer through calc, physics, chem, anthropology, composition, literature, history, art, etc. during your 4 years of academic experience. And when all is combined together w/ your aviation degree, you'll be just as well rounded as the next individual.

Ps, most employers like to see experience in an area...a degree basically shows them that you can put up with enough B.S. for four years, graduate, and probably learn something in your new field...which, is worthwhile when they're preparing to make an investment on you. Normally, if you can find a way to get the experience, they could care sh*t less what your degree is actually in.

JMT21
09-01-2006, 01:14 PM
The numbers given above aren't opinion. They're easily verifiable fact, using the four major independent college ranking sources (Business Week, Wall Street Journal, U.S. News & World Report, Princeton Review) as a guide. I used them all to aid in selecting a graduate program. Of course, college guides are only part of the story. Real-world utility of a degree is also a factor. As far as my choice for an undergrad major goes, if I had known then what I know now... Luckily, I only did three semesters at the aviation school.

Weird, I couldn't find "For ND residents that's fine, but nothing to pay out-of-state fees for" in any of the afore mentioned publications. National ranked programs only really matter for grad school, which I would not want to go to UND for anyway. For undergrad it is perfect.

Uncle Bose
09-01-2006, 02:10 PM
So in the end, you will need to earn your flight certificates despite what type of college plan you choose to pursue correct? So, if you go to the FBO and fly and get a degree in say...art history, you are essentially destined to be the curator of a museum or an art teacher (if flying fails) and you're still trying to figure how you're going to pay off the loans for flying (ps...how do you get the loans for flying also? i'm not familiar w/ that, as student loans will cover flight expenses at the university...then you've also gotta compare the insterest rates you'll be paying on your flying at the FBO compared to the normally "lower" interest rates of the student loans) The basic end is you're going to be spending the money on the flying anyway, maybe saving a dollar or two w/ the FBO route.

When you're finished w/ ur degree in an unrelated field and have all your ratings you're probably equally as qualified as any other pilot candidate who applies to say...the regional world. You don't have quite enough time to get on w/ them...yet....and you have a degree under your belt. So, you've gotta be poor and build that time, so you'll probably end up CFIng like eveyrone else right? So what's the real difference, other than the aviation universities (or universities w/ aviation programs) may have a bridge program to get you that interview in less time, so you can start paying off those student loans.

If it was up to me, i'd just say...go to college and major in something that you're going to enjoy. there are probably some people out there that'll tell you to major in pharmacuticals (sp?) becuase they pay great $$, which is true. But what about the guy who majored in that and now is thinking of a different career field becuase he hates his job? If you think a business degree is better than an aviation degree, more power to you, you'll blend in with the masses of other individuals w/ business degrees and find that you NEED to go to grad school to TRY to make yourself stand out. If not, every resume' looks exactly the same.

If i could do it again, i probably wouldn't change much. I'm not disappointed in my education (Central Missouri State University). Got to have the college experience, flying experience, and take all those stupid Gen-Ed's that everyone takes. Just because you have to get 120 credit hours, doesn't mean you're not going to suffer through calc, physics, chem, anthropology, composition, literature, history, art, etc. during your 4 years of academic experience. And when all is combined together w/ your aviation degree, you'll be just as well rounded as the next individual.

Ps, most employers like to see experience in an area...a degree basically shows them that you can put up with enough B.S. for four years, graduate, and probably learn something in your new field...which, is worthwhile when they're preparing to make an investment on you. Normally, if you can find a way to get the experience, they could care sh*t less what your degree is actually in.


Of course, not everyone should bother majoring in something that conveys actual job skills, such as business and engineering programs. Going to a state school as a resident and getting a liberal arts degree is an option vastly superior to an aviation major paying $25K a year for tuition alone at a private school like ERAU or FIT (which are what this thread was originally about), or, to a lesser extent, out-of-state fees at a public school. The debt loads upon completion, even with the liberal arts major a little behind, are incomparable.

Uncle Bose
09-01-2006, 02:21 PM
Weird, I couldn't find "For ND residents that's fine, but nothing to pay out-of-state fees for" in any of the afore mentioned publications. National ranked programs only really matter for grad school, which I would not want to go to UND for anyway. For undergrad it is perfect.

Incidentally, what I said was "the NUMBERS given above" are fact. Using those numbers, common sense does the rest in determining there's no point in paying out-of-state fees for UND. THAT part is opinion, as is your "national ranked programs only really matter for grad school" claim.
Considering you've ditched the aviation major, and assuming you're out of state, is it really that much of a stretch to conclude there wasn't much point to your going to UND in the first place?

JMT21
09-01-2006, 04:07 PM
Incidentally, what I said was "the NUMBERS given above" are fact. Using those numbers, common sense does the rest in determining there's no point in paying out-of-state fees for UND. THAT part is opinion, as is your "national ranked programs only really matter for grad school" claim.
Considering you've ditched the aviation major, and assuming you're out of state, is it really that much of a stretch to conclude there wasn't much point to your going to UND in the first place?

Consider this Uncle Bose, I'm in-state tuition, and at 22 years young graduating this spring with a job waiting for me at a large accounting firm which starts at 40-45k/year. There was a point to me going to UND in the first place...put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Uncle Bose
09-01-2006, 04:16 PM
So you're paying in-state tuition for a business degree. This whole argument is about paying non-resident or private tuition for an aviation degree, so it doesn't even apply to you, does it? What exactly are you arguing for?

LAfrequentflyer
09-01-2006, 04:19 PM
Consider this Uncle Bose, I'm in-state tuition, and at 22 years young graduating this spring with a job waiting for me at a large accounting firm which starts at 40-45k/year. There was a point to me going to UND in the first place...put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Are you out of aviation or just working as an accountant to put money aside for flight training?

Good luck what ever you decide to do. You made the right choice not getting an aviation degree. I went to UND for ROTC...Nice campus. I enjoyed my time there...


-LAFF

JMT21
09-01-2006, 05:13 PM
So you're paying in-state tuition for a business degree. This whole argument is about paying non-resident or private tuition for an aviation degree, so it doesn't even apply to you, does it? What exactly are you arguing for?

If you would look back, you would see that our discussion begin with you unfairly chastising avation degrees. As a reasonable person with many freinds who have aviation degrees and been successful with them, I simply put a few of your assessments into perspective. It didn't not begin with what kind of tuition I was paying as you say. You didn't get an aviation degree either so what are you arguing for?

Are you out of aviation or just working as an accountant to put money aside for flight training?

Good luck what ever you decide to do. You made the right choice not getting an aviation degree. I went to UND for ROTC...Nice campus. I enjoyed my time there...


-LAFF

I will recieve BBA's in Accounting and Aviation Management. I have my commercial/instrument/multi so I don't know that I will be getting out of aviation completely; it should make for a killer hobby. If I decide I want to fly professionally at some point down road, I'll have lots of freinds in the industry, and may persue it. I would love to get on with an ANG unit, so that may be a possiblity also.

I have no regrets about UND. I've had a blast. Are you a pilot for the Air Force then?

LAfrequentflyer
09-01-2006, 05:23 PM
Not a pilot - I went into support. I wasn't medically qualified to fly for the AF.

You have a back-up degree and good job outlook.... I would recommend you log the time needed for the regionals and make flying a career. Once you have some seniority you can safely build a side-business. Thats what I would do in your shoes.

Good luck...

-LAFF

JMT21
09-01-2006, 05:47 PM
Not a pilot - I went into support. I wasn't medically qualified to fly for the AF.

You have a back-up degree and good job outlook.... I would recommend you log the time needed for the regionals and make flying a career. Once you have some seniority you can safely build a side-business. Thats what I would do in your shoes.

Good luck...

-LAFF

I do have some student loans so I plan on working in accounting for a few years...after that who knows. I would love to do as you suggest, it's something I plan on looking seriously into a few years down the road. Sorry AF flying didn't work out for you. I'm grateful for your service to the country, thanks.

Uncle Bose
09-01-2006, 06:21 PM
If you would look back, you would see that our discussion begin with you unfairly chastising avation degrees. As a reasonable person with many freinds who have aviation degrees and been successful with them, I simply put a few of your assessments into perspective. It didn't not begin with what kind of tuition I was paying as you say. You didn't get an aviation degree either so what are you arguing for?


I did get an aviation degree, and it got me as far as it'd get anyone. The problem is, so would have any other degree, the tuition for which would have cost a fourth as much. Luckily, I only spent three semesters there. The LAST three.
The bottom line is, even considering the few people who may get reduced minimums at some regional, equating to a few fewer months of flight instructing, it isn't worth the money. You seem to agree with me on that point. Where we diverge is when I go on to say it isn't good for anything. Of course, it's just as good as any other degree for anything that requires just any degree, but here again, you still have the issue of having paid 3-4 times as much as you could have.

flynavyj
09-01-2006, 07:18 PM
where'd you get ur degree from bose? i'd assume one of the expensive schools such as ERAU or another private aviation institution. Private schools are expensive, and, i think anyone and everyone knows that. My girlfriend is a graduate of Rockhurst University (one of the more "affordable" jesuit schools) Her education (w/ her scholoriships included) was still more expensive than my aviation degree from my state school.

I do know that out of state tuition can be a killer, had a few friends from out of state that went to central and left after a year because they did the math and discovered it'd be cheaper to do the same thing in their home state.

Personally, i don't see a general "business" degree as being anything more valuable than an aviation degree. An accounting degree, yes more. If i was choosing to do something different than my basic aviation degree, i would have probably gone for engineering (aviation or automotive) or finished my double major (automotive design). That's my only other true "passion". The vast majority of majors however are somewhat limited, and, if you decide to do something other than what your major was then you simply have a degree that isn't going to help you out significantly. And i know plenty of people who are getting jobs in fields that they actually didn't study, best of luck to everyone in their decesions.

And most importantly, shop around and make the best decesion for your future and your money.

LAfrequentflyer
09-02-2006, 03:15 AM
I do have some student loans so I plan on working in accounting for a few years...after that who knows. I would love to do as you suggest, it's something I plan on looking seriously into a few years down the road. Sorry AF flying didn't work out for you. I'm grateful for your service to the country, thanks.

Thanks...I tried to get into the F-15E as a WSO but again my eyesight kept me from it. By the time I had PRK thru the AF I was too old.

No problem I'm making the most of the cards dealt...

Pay off your loans then get back in and make it a career - you can always work as a CPA once your apprenticeship is done and you are on your own. Consider getting a financial planner cert to help give you more business options...

-LAFF