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View Full Version : Trans States FO Hat and Jacket


Koolaidman
08-26-2006, 09:46 PM
Anyone on here starting class for Trans States soon? I have an FO jacket and hat I am looking to get rid of. Size is 42R and was not tailored and hat size is 7. Both are in excellent condition. I live in St. Louis and can make arrangements to show them to whoever.


OldAg84
08-27-2006, 04:08 PM
With all the worries about security should uniforms be hawked on a public forum?

Just a thought.

Koolaidman
08-27-2006, 08:39 PM
Can't you go online and buy a pilot shirt and epaulettes? Or just go to any store at the local airport that sells them? Not required to wear a jacket during the summer months. Don't know what the big deal is.


freezingflyboy
08-27-2006, 10:47 PM
With all the worries about security should uniforms be hawked on a public forum?

Just a thought.

I am hoping the rent-a-cops and TSA goons running security are more concerned with the ID you carry and not the clothes on your back...

OldAg84
08-28-2006, 03:16 AM
Kool Aid and freezingflyboy- you are both correct- but it might be one SMALL thing. In any case, ffb, I truly hope you are correct.

tomgoodman
08-28-2006, 05:44 AM
Ad on pilot lounge bulletin board: For sale--Captain's hat, size 7 3/4....also want to buy F/O's hat, size 6 3/4. Lost my bid.

dash trash
08-28-2006, 09:11 AM
Ebay's take
"Any article of clothing or identification relating to transportation security or employment with any transportation related industry is not permitted on eBay.

Vintage commercial airline, train, or subway clothing such as ties, scarves, jackets, and similar items, may be sold so long as the item description clearly states that the item is at least 10 years old, is no longer in use by the airline, and does not resemble any piece of the airline's current uniform."

another.....

Sale of pilot uniforms threat to airport security - claim
Airline Industry Information, Feb 28, 2005
AIRLINE INDUSTRY INFORMATION-(C)1997-2005 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD

The governor of Illinois has called for the US federal government to stop the sale of airline pilots' uniforms on the Internet.
According to Governor Rod Blagojevich terrorists may obtain a pilot's uniform over the Internet and use it to breach airport security.

Illinois is reportedly working on a measure that would make it illegal to enter secure areas of an airport while impersonating a commercial pilot.

A pilot, even wearing a uniform, must still present appropriate identification to pass through airport checkpoints, said a Transportation Security Administration spokesperson.

freezingflyboy
08-28-2006, 10:57 AM
Ebay's take
"Any article of clothing or identification relating to transportation security or employment with any transportation related industry is not permitted on eBay.

Vintage commercial airline, train, or subway clothing such as ties, scarves, jackets, and similar items, may be sold so long as the item description clearly states that the item is at least 10 years old, is no longer in use by the airline, and does not resemble any piece of the airline's current uniform."

another.....

Sale of pilot uniforms threat to airport security - claim
Airline Industry Information, Feb 28, 2005
AIRLINE INDUSTRY INFORMATION-(C)1997-2005 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD

The governor of Illinois has called for the US federal government to stop the sale of airline pilots' uniforms on the Internet.
According to Governor Rod Blagojevich terrorists may obtain a pilot's uniform over the Internet and use it to breach airport security.

Illinois is reportedly working on a measure that would make it illegal to enter secure areas of an airport while impersonating a commercial pilot.
A pilot, even wearing a uniform, must still present appropriate identification to pass through airport checkpoints, said a Transportation Security Administration spokesperson.

I stand by my previous post. It is already illegal to enter secure areas of an airport without proper identification, why not enforce that law!? Isn't that the point of issuing indentification cards? Isn't that the point of challenging anyone you see without proper ID? I know I do. Who gives a rat's ass what the person is wearing! I should be able to walk around naked with my hair fire on the ramp as long as I have proper ID, a purpose for being there and stay away from aircraft and fuel trucks.

OldAg84
08-28-2006, 11:30 AM
Well, here's my thought. I'm not a pilot- just a PAX. But I've been able (w/o intent and w/o trying) to get a bag through TSA security without being properly checked. I did bring it to their attention and it was checked but it didn't give me a lot of confidence. I won't go on how.

If I'm security and I see someone in current uniform from 10-20-30 feet away and they are already cleared into the "sterile" area; am I going to run up and check their badge? Probably not, they've got the "costume" on and they've been checked already. And if they've put some time and effort into, their ID probably looks good.

My point is- I don't think TSA is consistently impressive most days (I'm being generous). If they can get into a sterile area, with or without a valid ID and the uniform helps them become part of the scenery when they shouldn't be; again why sell it on a public board?

The focus should be to prevent any terrorist or criminal acts, not to catch someone playing pilot and prosecuting them. But I suppose if someone needs to make some change and clean out their closet. welll....OK

freezingflyboy
08-28-2006, 12:17 PM
Well, here's my thought. I'm not a pilot- just a PAX. But I've been able (w/o intent and w/o trying) to get a bag through TSA security without being properly checked. I did bring it to their attention and it was checked but it didn't give me a lot of confidence. I won't go on how.

If I'm security and I see someone in current uniform from 10-20-30 feet away and they are already cleared into the "sterile" area; am I going to run up and check their badge? Probably not, they've got the "costume" on and they've been checked already. And if they've put some time and effort into, their ID probably looks good.

My point is- I don't think TSA is consistently impressive most days (I'm being generous). If they can get into a sterile area, with or without a valid ID and the uniform helps them become part of the scenery when they shouldn't be; again why sell it on a public board?

The focus should be to prevent any terrorist or criminal acts, not to catch someone playing pilot and prosecuting them. But I suppose if someone needs to make some change and clean out their closet. welll....OK

I guess I am thinking more about out on the ramp or in secure areas of the airport where it matters, not in the terminal with the public. I do agree with you, the TSA is quite "unimpressive" most days but my ID is always checked going through security at pretty much any airport I have been to. I have even been turned away at security trying to jumpseat because my ID was from an airline that didn't serve that airport so I needed to have a security pass from the ticket counter.

OldAg84
08-28-2006, 05:55 PM
It they are in the terminal- thay are halfway there to causing trouble. To be fair, the airline employees are a lot more vigilant, so getting out on the ramp or aboard and aircraft is obviously another hurdle.

I would think, with a good representation, one colud craft an ID. Barring an internal chip (RFID), any good forger could fabricate an ID. If not required now, a current and cancelable RFID with every ID should be. If we can monitor pallets of toothpaste for retailers, we ought to be able to do it for crew, and maybe frequent PAX as well.

But my "costume" comment still stands (with no offense to true professionals).

Koolaidman
08-28-2006, 06:59 PM
Anyone can buy a pilot uniform off the internet, so I don't understand the concern for posting it on a site with airline pilots? Plus, I live in St. Louis and would see who I would selling it to considering they would be in class for Trans States.

Again, my major point is that you can go online a buy navy pants, shirt, tie and epaulettes and no one would think a thing of it. I put my stuff up for sale on a website full of pilots and it gets more posts than when I asked for information on Skywest!

The TSA is useless. Next time you go to the airport, see how many people are standing around. You have one person telling you to take your shoes off, one to watch you walk through the metal detector, one to run the tubs back and forth. The only meaningful person is the one checking the x-ray machine. Take a good look next time and you'll see what I am talking about. Then they give people a hard time over nothing!! I am not a big fan of the TSA.

freezingflyboy
08-28-2006, 07:00 PM
It they are in the terminal- thay are halfway there to causing trouble. To be fair, the airline employees are a lot more vigilant, so getting out on the ramp or aboard and aircraft is obviously another hurdle.

I would think, with a good representation, one colud craft an ID. Barring an internal chip (RFID), any good forger could fabricate an ID. If not required now, a current and cancelable RFID with every ID should be. If we can monitor pallets of toothpaste for retailers, we ought to be able to do it for crew, and maybe frequent PAX as well.

But my "costume" comment still stands (with no offense to true professionals).

If you sincerely think you can get through security and get access to an aircraft with little more than a costume then you are crazy. But Ill humor you. Ok, so the TSA goons and rent-a-cops drop the ball (big surprise) and youre through security and are running amok in the terminal, so what? I guess you can go knock over chopsticks at the Panda Express or overflow a toilet in the bathroom...:rolleyes: To get to any secure areas, including down a jetway, you will need to have an airport and/or airline ID. You're right, one could craft an ID but that ID has to be scanned at certain doors and inspected at others as well as a myriad of different door codes. Maybe I am in the minority, but even if I see someone standing around wearing the proper uniform with the proper ID but they are in an area without an obvious purpose I am going to challenge them.

Now don't get me wrong, as someone who sees airport security everyday I know there are holes. But its a bit like swiss cheese. You might make it through one "hole" or layer but there are many more to overcome. If someone was really determined, very skilled and well connected they might be able to make it through all of them. If a guy buying a hat off eBay or a shirt and epaulettes from Sporty's is a threat, then we need to SERIOUSLY re-examine airport security.

And while we are on the subject of uniforms being used as a threat, what about rampers? I know that here in Houston the Contnental ramp workers just wear blue shorts or pants and tshirts or polos. How hard is that to fake? They go through the same security checkpoints we (pilots) do and have access to the same (if not more) secure areas than we do. Guess we better eliminate blue pants and shorts and tshirts and polos with the Continenal logo on them:rolleyes:

PS
Sorry to the guy who was just trying to get rid of a jacket and hat:D

OldAg84
08-29-2006, 03:57 AM
I suppose I'm guilty of beating a dead horse; or perhaps creating a tempest in a teapot. I can't argue the specifics of security outside of the terminal with you- I've only been there once, for a valid reason (nothing I did!), pre 9/11, and obviously with an escort.

My point again- it's a potential piece, however small, of the security layers. If you can buy similar items elsewhere, I suppose it doesn't matter much. I do know you can't by "copwear" without a valid badge and ID.

I purchased a polo shirt with the logo of my favorite airline from the airlines website (think the airline you might leave JetBlue for). I can't tell you the number of passengers and employees (in the public areas and onboard) who asked if I was an employee. "No, I just really like the airline." Once a REAL employee heard that, it was usually good for a comp beer or two. Wore it enough to "pay" for the shirt! But still it was just a shirt.

I'll give you both that you are probably more "right" than I, but I still stand by my thoughts. I do appreciate that you've both kept this thread civil and humored me some by posting about it. I'll concede here and leave gracefully- if that's still possible!

Have safe trips!

surreal1221
08-29-2006, 09:44 AM
Wow, lot's of paranoia going on.

Gotta love it.

OldAg84
08-29-2006, 09:58 AM
Paranoia or awareness...to-may-toe or to-mah-toe...;)

LAfrequentflyer
08-29-2006, 11:11 AM
I suppose I'm guilty of beating a dead horse; or perhaps creating a tempest in a teapot. I can't argue the specifics of security outside of the terminal with you- I've only been there once, for a valid reason (nothing I did!), pre 9/11, and obviously with an escort.

My point again- it's a potential piece, however small, of the security layers. If you can buy similar items elsewhere, I suppose it doesn't matter much. I do know you can't by "copwear" without a valid badge and ID.

I purchased a polo shirt with the logo of my favorite airline from the airlines website (think the airline you might leave JetBlue for). I can't tell you the number of passengers and employees (in the public areas and onboard) who asked if I was an employee. "No, I just really like the airline." Once a REAL employee heard that, it was usually good for a comp beer or two. Wore it enough to "pay" for the shirt! But still it was just a shirt.

I'll give you both that you are probably more "right" than I, but I still stand by my thoughts. I do appreciate that you've both kept this thread civil and humored me some by posting about it. I'll concede here and leave gracefully- if that's still possible!

Have safe trips!


For cop stuff most vendors require / check your badge # and employment with the department before filling the order.....

-LAFF

ExperimentalAB
05-31-2007, 10:37 AM
As a PAX, I have inadvertently gotten through security with "banned" items...and this is after 9/11...not particularly impressive is a stretch LoL.

Actually, they're downright stupid. As a Pilot, I throw my Laptop in a bin and drop my hat on top of it, and they actually look at me, pick up another bin, and place my hat in it by it's lonesome. Absolutely amazing, I think to myself...