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View Full Version : Checklists and Flows!


TravisUK
09-03-2006, 09:01 AM
Just curious as to how the checklist/flow systems work in a 121 enviorment and if I can apply it even in a single engine enviorment. The way I was tought was read the item, do the action, then go back to the next item on the list. But I heard that airlines (or turbine aircrafts) use flows instead because if you are taking that slow to go over each item you could burn up something. So for example do you have a start up flow that you use to start the engine then go through the checklist to verify you have done everything? Thanks for any advice, i want to start a good habit now.


rickair7777
09-03-2006, 10:02 AM
Depending on the task and how time-critical it is, you might do any of the following:

Read & Do: One pilot reads each item and silently performs each item.

Challenge/Response: One pilot reads each item, the other pilot responds and performs the item or verifies that the item was performed previously in a flow.

Flow: Memory process used to perform either emergency items or to complete routine tasks in preparation for a checklist (emergency flows are normally verified after-the-fact with a checklist also)


For single pilot light GA purposes, Ii would recommend devising your own flows for each phase of flight, and then running the checklist afterwards to verify. The advantage here is that you can get things done when you need them without being heads down fumbling for the checklist, and then do the checklist at a more suitable time. Also in an emergency you know how to perform your flow without the checklist if necessary.

TravisUK
09-03-2006, 10:09 AM
Thats what I considered too. During run-up and ground ops to read and do, but maybe during in-flight portions use more of a flow (i.e. before landing checks, etc.)


Laxrox43
09-03-2006, 11:30 AM
I manage/instruct at a flight school, and I reconstructed their checklists to resemble one that you would find in a 121 carrier cockpit, sized down. There are "Read and Do" items as well as boxed "Memory Items". The checklists flow very well with our aircraft, making it easier on the student.

If you are interested in making your own checklist, I can email you the format, and you can play around with it.

Lax

flynavyj
09-03-2006, 12:35 PM
At my university we used a flow check for all emergency items, and it would also be done as a before landing. HOwever, the actual before landing checklist would also be done on the downwind leg, using the GUMPS check on base and final legs ensure that everything was performed properly.

Floor to the door is what's used on emergency setups here...

Fuel - Both
Shutoff - ON
Mix- Rich
Aux Pump - ON
Master - On
Mags - Both
Engine - Crank

after its done, verify that things have been completed via the actual checklist (if you have time aka. altitude) then move on to your emergency landing.

III Corps
09-03-2006, 01:05 PM
Just curious as to how the checklist/flow systems work in a 121 enviorment and if I can apply it even in a single engine enviorment. The way I was tought was read the item, do the action, then go back to the next item on the list. But I heard that airlines (or turbine aircrafts) use flows instead because if you are taking that slow to go over each item you could burn up something. So for example do you have a start up flow that you use to start the engine then go through the checklist to verify you have done everything? Thanks for any advice, i want to start a good habit now.


As noted, there are two different types of checklists, the read and do and the flow. Generally the flow is for normal checklists and it is indeed a check list.. you are checking to make sure things have been done. The read and do is more often used in an Emergency/Abnormal checklist where sequence and procedure are often specific.

Each checklist has its weakness. The Flow, if not used correctly, will be rushed though and items will be missed. If you search the NASA database you will find lots of incidents where pilots called a switch in a specific position as required for the response or that they had the required fuel and they were just responding.. not checking.

The Emergency checklist has a weakness and that is guys rush through it also but miss steps.

Many, if not most of the airlines, have abandoned a lot of the memory items. The old axiom of "I read the checklist I do every day and have to memorize the checklist I do once a year" finally registered and after seeing guys muff the memory items, it was decided in most cases to just read the checklist. Granted, in turboprops and recips, you may have less time but in jets, there should be no rush to accomplish items.

For engine starts, know the malfunctions and responses but have the checklist handy.

Ottopilot
09-03-2006, 01:51 PM
At Continental you use flows. The Captain (on the ground) or pilot flying (in the air) calls for the "checklist" ("before start", etc). Both pilots do their flows and then go to the checklist (pilot monitoring uses the checklist) for a reading of the challenge/response items. Some items are in the flow, but not on the checklist. The "terminating" checklist is the only read and do part.

Emergecy checklist are mainly read and do. There are some memory items for a few emergency checklists that you memorize and do, then go to the checklist.

flystraightin
09-03-2006, 10:59 PM
Excuse my ignorance, but whats a flow? Im not too sure as Im still in the >20hr stage, but this has been a good read.

At work (Horizon), I hear the pilots all the time. I'm not sure which method it's called (like a call/response), but it goes something like this:

Capt.: "Gear" FO: "3 green"

Capt.: "Radios" FO: "set"

Capt.: "Beacon" FO: "set"

Capt.: "Check 2" FO: "2 clear"

Capt.: "Start 2" etc.

Laxrox43
09-04-2006, 05:02 AM
flystraightin,

That is called: Challenge/Response

III Corps
09-04-2006, 07:38 AM
Excuse my ignorance, but whats a flow? Im not too sure as Im still in the >20hr stage, but this has been a good read.

At work (Horizon), I hear the pilots all the time. I'm not sure which method it's called (like a call/response), but it goes something like this:

Capt.: "Gear" FO: "3 green"

Capt.: "Radios" FO: "set"

Capt.: "Beacon" FO: "set"

Capt.: "Check 2" FO: "2 clear"

Capt.: "Start 2" etc.


First off, a flow needs to be correctly designed. In doing a flow, you move through a series of checks without reference to the checklist. This allows you to do things quickly. ONCE the checks are complete, you call for the CHECK list so you can CHECK to see that everything has been completed. For example, when you get to the CHECK for altimeters and you had for some reason forgotten to set the correct altimeter, you would do it at that time and the CHECK list would serve as a barrier to error.

A well designed checklist is like a good Swiss army knife. It prepares the airplane and crew for the next phase of flight, it divides workload, serves as a barrier to error, etc.

flystraightin
09-04-2006, 11:26 AM
So would I be correct to assume that flows are done individually by each pilot then they would 'double check' together using the checklist?

QCappy
09-05-2006, 02:20 PM
So would I be correct to assume that flows are done individually by each pilot then they would 'double check' together using the checklist?

Yes. You are correct.

flystraightin
09-05-2006, 02:34 PM
Awesome, thanks again QCappy. Hey, do you ever get up to YYJ? Say hi next time.

QCappy
09-05-2006, 02:36 PM
I was just there this weekend.

flystraightin
09-06-2006, 09:19 AM
ahh, the only weekend I wasnt working lol. Ive cut back my schedule do to school, only working saturday mornings now. 2047-2077. did you get a CSA named Lyndsay this weekend? Goes by 'Lu-Lu' (dont ask why)? Im sure you'd remember her. haha

FuelJetA
09-07-2006, 08:57 AM
I designed all the checklists for our Part 91 Dept. We use some challenge response items and some flows. We DO NOT use memory items solely...example, we do the line-ups by memory and then ALWAYS use the 'check' list to make sure you got them all. That is what it is for. There are always really important things on the checklist, we use bold and color to be sure to do them. There are typically 3 or more on any turbine aircraft. We call them the 'killer items.' On the Sabre 65 they are Spoilers, Trims, Flaps on takeoff and 3-green, Hydraulic Pressure, Anti-skid, Yaw Damp, on landing (yes you can land the Sabre with the flaps up really easily but this isn't always the case.) If you forget anything else, you won't die, but if you forget those, you just might.

DON'T ever put items in RED. As it is much harder for your eye to see. Put them in bold, underline or otherwise. Just a few hints.

For us, flows are important and certain aircraft have a better 'flow' than others. The Sabre has a nice flow where the Lear 35/55 did not.

That's my $.02 Take it or leave it.