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View Full Version : Trans States TA Exit Poll


CaptainCarl
07-27-2011, 07:28 PM
Let's get some preliminary data...


Salukipilot4590
07-27-2011, 07:30 PM
Why I didn't think of this....I have no idea.

+1 to you sir.

This is going to be so exciting!

It's gonna be like election night 2000!

CaptainCarl
07-27-2011, 07:34 PM
Why I didn't think of this....I have no idea.

+1 to you sir.

This is going to be so exciting!

It's gonna be like election night 2000!

It was your idea, I just made it a reality.


Salukipilot4590
07-27-2011, 07:36 PM
It was your idea, I just made it a reality.

Thank you Jesus :D

Stryker
07-27-2011, 07:36 PM
Good luck to you guys... It is LONG overdue....

B200 Hawk
07-27-2011, 07:47 PM
Isn't it odd it shows who voted for what?

Salukipilot4590
07-27-2011, 07:55 PM
Isn't it odd it shows who voted for what?

Yup....but then again why would you wanna vote in secret?

If you're gonna vote at least have the cajones to back up your logic.

Atreyu
07-27-2011, 08:01 PM
It's a public poll?

Bravo.....

CaptainCarl
07-27-2011, 08:04 PM
Isn't it odd it shows who voted for what?

It's a public poll?

Bravo.....

That's how I roll :cool: If you are gonna vote, be prepared to back it up.

Plus, we can adjust the numbers accordingly for all them player haters out there who aren't Waterskiers.

Positive_Rate
07-27-2011, 08:10 PM
I love the two "upstanding gentlemen" (so far) that voted no in the poll don't even work for us and it's blatantly obvious who they do work for. Rock on dudes.

Salukipilot4590
07-27-2011, 08:14 PM
I love the two tools (so far) that voted no in the poll don't even work for us and it's blatantly obvious who they do work for. Rock on dudes.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/3/6/26d490bd-70a6-4136-bc7d-9435ec4b9986.jpg

CaptainCarl
07-27-2011, 08:16 PM
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/231/9/f/Huked_on_Fonics_Stamp_by_Liet_Avery.jpg

Tentative*

Atreyu
07-27-2011, 10:19 PM
Exit, you say?

http://i.imgur.com/A5Zui.gif

vaporlock1215
07-28-2011, 06:55 AM
The distribution of the money is what ticks me off. I'm a recall guy that has been with tsa almost three full years now (hired in 07) and I've been told to expect around 500 after taxes... i should be getting around 2300 hrs of retro pay.... ok so it's not being called retro, fair enough. So it's a signing bonus? Shouldn't everyone get the same bonus to sign the same contract... a vote is a vote. Go ahead and give those captains $8,000 or whatever it is they are getting on top of their great pay raise while I get $500 and a $4 raise. How did the mec come up with this nonsense. Where's this so called unity. This TA is decent and would have had my yes vote if the mec didn't stick it to all the recall guys. So here's a No vote for the greedy, the ones that want to pad their own pocket book, the ones that thought it's "all good" to take money from a poor fo. Fix this nonsense. Spirit had it right. Get a clue.

Stryker
07-28-2011, 07:20 AM
What does it take to pass? A simple majority?

Atreyu
07-28-2011, 08:06 AM
The distribution of the money is what ticks me off. I'm a recall guy that has been with tsa almost three full years now (hired in 07) and I've been told to expect around 500 after taxes... i should be getting around 2300 hrs of retro pay.... ok so it's not being called retro, fair enough. So it's a signing bonus? Shouldn't everyone get the same bonus to sign the same contract... a vote is a vote. Go ahead and give those captains $8,000 or whatever it is they are getting on top of their great pay raise while I get $500 and a $4 raise. How did the mec come up with this nonsense. Where's this so called unity. This TA is decent and would have had my yes vote if the mec didn't stick it to all the recall guys. So here's a No vote for the greedy, the ones that want to pad their own pocket book, the ones that thought it's "all good" to take money from a poor fo. Fix this nonsense. Spirit had it right. Get a clue.

So you voted no because you don't like the distribution of the signing bonus.

So what we can do, is vote down the TA. In turn, you want a bigger signing bonus. If you vote no, we don't get released to strike. We probably sit around for a year doing nothing because the NMB will park us. If you had voted yes, making an extra $5/hr you'd be making an extra $500/mo. The BIGGEST raises seem to be for first to third year FO's. I'm at 5th year FO pay right now, and with the new contract, as a 3rd yr FO, you'll be making more than I am now at current fifth year FO pay.

But hey, we're a union, have "unity", so you vote no, so you can MAYBE get YOUR bigger signing bonus paycheck next year!


If Spirit had it right, I don't understand why you guys didn't go there, or any other regional was hiring while you were furloughed. Some of us were on property for this entire time with these sub industry wages. While you were furloughed, I was being paid less than a 2nd year FO would make during my first 3 years here, and $1 more during my fourth year!

minimwage4
07-28-2011, 08:16 AM
So you voted no because you don't like the distribution of the signing bonus.

So what we can do, is vote down the TA. In turn, you want a bigger signing bonus. If you vote no, we don't get released to strike. We probably sit around for a year doing nothing because the NMB will park us. If you had voted yes, making an extra $5/hr you'd be making an extra $500/mo. The BIGGEST raises seem to be for first to third year FO's. I'm at 5th year FO pay right now, and with the new contract, as a 3rd yr FO, you'll be making more than I am now at current fifth year FO pay.

But hey, we're a union, have "unity", so you vote no, so you can MAYBE get YOUR bigger signing bonus paycheck next year!


If Spirit had it right, I don't understand why you guys didn't go there, or any other regional was hiring while you were furloughed. Some of us were on property for this entire time with these sub industry wages. While you were furloughed, I was being paid less than a 2nd year FO would make during my first 3 years here, and $1 more during my fourth year!

Maybe he's not impressed just by the industry standardish pay.

AZ wildcat
07-28-2011, 08:25 AM
I agree the distribution could've been done a bit better, but voting the TA down over it doesn't seem like the solution. Voting no just for that reason states that you'd rather have $0 dollars than $500 right now; and approximately $300-500 dollars less per month indefinitely. All on the hopes of getting what in the future? $1000? Just seems like a losing fight.

And the guy that asked why us furloughs didn't go to another airline while on furlough, clearly doesn't understand what being furloughed was like. 'why didn't we think of that'?

flyinaway411
07-28-2011, 08:28 AM
So you voted no because you don't like the distribution of the signing bonus.

So what we can do, is vote down the TA. In turn, you want a bigger signing bonus. If you vote no, we don't get released to strike. We probably sit around for a year doing nothing because the NMB will park us. If you had voted yes, making an extra $5/hr you'd be making an extra $500/mo. The BIGGEST raises seem to be for first to third year FO's. I'm at 5th year FO pay right now, and with the new contract, as a 3rd yr FO, you'll be making more than I am now at current fifth year FO pay.

But hey, we're a union, have "unity", so you vote no, so you can MAYBE get YOUR bigger signing bonus paycheck next year!


If Spirit had it right, I don't understand why you guys didn't go there, or any other regional was hiring while you were furloughed. Some of us were on property for this entire time with these sub industry wages. While you were furloughed, I was being paid less than a 2nd year FO would make during my first 3 years here, and $1 more during my fourth year!

Maybe he's not impressed just by the industry standardish pay.

whatever it is...he, and everyone, has the right to vote whatever the hell they want for whatever reason or principle they believe in. Whether thats a yes or no. I have no doubt this thing is gonna pass and by a wide margin. And I understand everyones reasoning for voting yes. I truly do. We are not going to get better than this, and its gonna be a long time before we get another offer at all, so why keep fighting a losing fight? I'm in 5th year pay too and have been around for the whole thing, but the principle of the fact theyve been stealing from us for 5 yrs ****es me off! and you cant tell me they cant give a sb of $10 mil, because thats half the compass purchase. so if they cant then they spent our $$ on it! and the wages are industry average if we got the contract 5 yrs ago when we shouldve, not to mention the larger rj rates are a joke and im not voting yes to sell a future job down the road just because other regionals do it. and i figure im owed a check for around $20k in retro (sb). Im not seeing that. is voting no going to get me anything better now or down the road? most definitely not. But some of us have principles for voting no just as some of us have reasons for voting yes. lets try to understand that and not chastise each other for the vote. you dont see anyone telling you youre a sell out for taking less than we deserve. and lets face it, we all know THIS PILOT GROUP deserves more!

skippy
07-28-2011, 08:43 AM
it will pass plain and simple

Salukipilot4590
07-28-2011, 08:57 AM
And the guy that asked why us furloughs didn't go to another airline while on furlough, clearly doesn't understand what being furloughed was like. 'why didn't we think of that'?

Wait wait wait....I could have gone somewhere else while I was furloughed??!?!?!?!?!

I thought you had to sit at home collecting unemployment waiting for them to call...that's why they extended unemployment so long.

...so you're telling me I could have gone to Colgan and upgraded by now?!?!

Well that sucks!

:mad:






















































Lulz (I'm still an idiot for turning Colgan down)

Positive_Rate
07-28-2011, 09:36 AM
The distribution of the money is what ticks me off. I'm a recall guy that has been with tsa almost three full years now (hired in 07) and I've been told to expect around 500 after taxes... i should be getting around 2300 hrs of retro pay.... ok so it's not being called retro, fair enough. So it's a signing bonus? Shouldn't everyone get the same bonus to sign the same contract... a vote is a vote. Go ahead and give those captains $8,000 or whatever it is they are getting on top of their great pay raise while I get $500 and a $4 raise. How did the mec come up with this nonsense. Where's this so called unity. This TA is decent and would have had my yes vote if the mec didn't stick it to all the recall guys. So here's a No vote for the greedy, the ones that want to pad their own pocket book, the ones that thought it's "all good" to take money from a poor fo. Fix this nonsense. Spirit had it right. Get a clue.

I don't think the MEC "stuck it" to the recalls at all. Yes, you will be getting less, yes your names were on the seniority list, but you weren't here dealing with the things at TSA day in and day out for the last 5 years.

Is that your fault? Of course it isn't. Furloughs happen. Things like furlough, FMLA, etc isn't the fault of the pilot, however, you weren't here dealing with scheduling, broken airplanes, reduced rests, etc while on furlough. The bucket in the signing bonus distribution dealing with longevity deals with being a pilot on active status during the period that contract was amendable (Aug '06 and forward). If your hire date is August 2006 or before you're eligible for 100% of your share of that bucket - anything after that, your portion is reduced.

Yes I know it sucks, but it's the most equitable way to attempt to compensate those who were on active status through the duration of the amendable period. Unfortunately, furloughs, though on the list, were not active. Would it be fair to compensate a furloughed guy and an active guy the same? Or how about those new hires that are just finishing up class? Should they get the same amount as a guy that has been here since Sept 2006?

DryMotorBoatin
07-28-2011, 10:00 AM
Positive Rate,

I assume you'll be posting the results of the official election on here when released??

CaptainCarl
07-28-2011, 10:02 AM
I don't think the MEC "stuck it" to the recalls at all. Yes, you will be getting less, yes your names were on the seniority list, but you weren't here dealing with the things at TSA day in and day out for the last 5 years.

Is that your fault? Of course it isn't. Furloughs happen. Things like furlough, FMLA, etc isn't the fault of the pilot, however, you weren't here dealing with scheduling, broken airplanes, reduced rests, etc while on furlough. The bucket in the signing bonus distribution dealing with longevity deals with being a pilot on active status during the period that contract was amendable (Aug '06 and forward). If your hire date is August 2006 or before you're eligible for 100% of your share of that bucket - anything after that, your portion is reduced.

My problem is with Bucket #2. The way that's being divvied up seems like bullspit to me. Why should the top captains, who were enjoying 14, 15, and 16 days off and crediting 85+ hours, get the biggest portion from Bucket #2? They make the most and enjoy the most benefits, so they also deserve the largest percentage of $507,500? Logic :confused:

http://www.thepalmbeachtimes.com/Pictures%20folder/Pictures/Scarecrow%201.jpg

FlyJSH
07-28-2011, 10:07 AM
My problem is with Bucket #2. The way that's being divvied up seems like bullspit to me. Why should the top captains, who were enjoying 14, 15, and 16 days off and crediting 85+ hours, get the biggest portion from Bucket #2? They make the most and enjoy the most benefits, so they also deserve the largest percentage of $507,500? Logic :confused:

http://www.thepalmbeachtimes.com/Pictures%20folder/Pictures/Scarecrow%201.jpg

Perhaps when you are a senior CA who has fought the company for 20 years, you will understand.

crustacean
07-28-2011, 12:13 PM
Perhaps when you are a senior CA who has fought the company for 20 years, you will understand.

Retro pay, signing bonus, I don't care what you call it, but the pay that is being divvied up is from 2006 and on. Not from 1989. Not from 2001. Not 2004. 2006.

Bucket #1 makes complete sense. If you weren't on property dealing with the shenanigans, then your piece of the pie should be reduced accordingly. Bucket #2 is just stupid--especially given that they're using a single W2 meaning that some guys that upgraded, downgraded, and then [recently] upgraded again are getting hosed. Bucket #2 only benefits the Good Ole' Boys and is akin to double dipping.

The amount one receives should be the percentage of days on property since the contract became amendable. Plain and simple.

eaglefly
07-28-2011, 12:26 PM
Retro pay, signing bonus, I don't care what you call it, but the pay that is being divvied up is from 2006 and on. Not from 1989. Not from 2001. Not 2004. 2006.

Bucket #1 makes complete sense. If you weren't on property dealing with the shenanigans, then your piece of the pie should be reduced accordingly. Bucket #2 is just stupid--especially given that they're using a single W2 meaning that some guys that upgraded, downgraded, and then [recently] upgraded again are getting hosed. Bucket #2 only benefits the Good Ole' Boys and is akin to double dipping.

The amount one receives should be the percentage of days on property since the contract became amendable. Plain and simple.

Yes..............EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF !!!!

Now, where's MY money ?

eaglefly
07-28-2011, 12:37 PM
whatever it is...he, and everyone, has the right to vote whatever the hell they want for whatever reason or principle they believe in. Whether thats a yes or no. I have no doubt this thing is gonna pass and by a wide margin. And I understand everyones reasoning for voting yes. I truly do. We are not going to get better than this, and its gonna be a long time before we get another offer at all, so why keep fighting a losing fight? I'm in 5th year pay too and have been around for the whole thing, but the principle of the fact theyve been stealing from us for 5 yrs ****es me off! and you cant tell me they cant give a sb of $10 mil, because thats half the compass purchase. so if they cant then they spent our $$ on it! and the wages are industry average if we got the contract 5 yrs ago when we shouldve, not to mention the larger rj rates are a joke and im not voting yes to sell a future job down the road just because other regionals do it. and i figure im owed a check for around $20k in retro (sb). Im not seeing that. is voting no going to get me anything better now or down the road? most definitely not. But some of us have principles for voting no just as some of us have reasons for voting yes. lets try to understand that and not chastise each other for the vote. you dont see anyone telling you youre a sell out for taking less than we deserve. and lets face it, we all know THIS PILOT GROUP deserves more!

Actually, you don't deserve more. You deserve only what you're willing to accept. Obviously, most find this "acceptable" and thus it's likely to pass. Sad to see another regional pilot group willing to take whatever scraps are thrown to them..........and forget wasting time with rationalizations. They don't put food on the table.

This is actually good for mainline pilots though. As more of these regional pilot groups accept the existance of poverty they're offered, the less likely they will be able to fill their new-hire seats in the coming years when less pilots are coming into the profession and thus the less formidable they'll be at getting additional mainline flying.

So actually, those pilots at major carriers should give a THUMB'S UP to the pilots of TSA helping to strengthen the bargaining positions of pilots at major carriers in the future.

I salute you !!!!

Positive_Rate
07-28-2011, 01:04 PM
Actually, you don't deserve more. You deserve only what you're willing to accept. Obviously, most find this "acceptable" and thus it's likely to pass. Sad to see another regional pilot group willing to take whatever scraps are thrown to them..........and forget wasting time with rationalizations. They don't put food on the table.

This is actually good for mainline pilots though. As more of these regional pilot groups accept the existance of poverty they're offered, the less likely they will be able to fill their new-hire seats in the coming years when less pilots are coming into the profession and thus the less formidable they'll be at getting additional mainline flying.

So actually, those pilots at major carriers should give a THUMB'S UP to the pilots of TSA helping to strengthen the bargaining positions of pilots at major carriers in the future.

I salute you !!!!

http://img.perthstreetbikes.com/img/6/2/0/Lol_que.jpg

Positive_Rate
07-28-2011, 01:05 PM
Positive Rate,

I assume you'll be posting the results of the official election on here when released??


Yes sir. Should know soon.

Atreyu
07-28-2011, 02:17 PM
Actually, you don't deserve more. You deserve only what you're willing to accept. Obviously, most find this "acceptable" and thus it's likely to pass. Sad to see another regional pilot group willing to take whatever scraps are thrown to them..........and forget wasting time with rationalizations. They don't put food on the table.

This is actually good for mainline pilots though. As more of these regional pilot groups accept the existance of poverty they're offered, the less likely they will be able to fill their new-hire seats in the coming years when less pilots are coming into the profession and thus the less formidable they'll be at getting additional mainline flying.

So actually, those pilots at major carriers should give a THUMB'S UP to the pilots of TSA helping to strengthen the bargaining positions of pilots at major carriers in the future.

I salute you !!!!

http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/skydiving_accident.jpg

eaglefly
07-28-2011, 02:41 PM
Now that's funny !

gary0724
07-28-2011, 04:47 PM
Is that your fault? Of course it isn't. Furloughs happen. Things like furlough, FMLA, etc isn't the fault of the pilot, however, you weren't here dealing with scheduling, broken airplanes, reduced rests, etc while on furlough. The bucket in the signing bonus distribution dealing with longevity deals with being a pilot on active status during the period that contract was amendable (Aug '06 and forward). If your hire date is August 2006 or before you're eligible for 100% of your share of that bucket - anything after that, your portion is reduced.

Yes I know it sucks, but it's the most equitable way to attempt to compensate those who were on active status through the duration of the amendable period. Unfortunately, furloughs, though on the list, were not active. Would it be fair to compensate a furloughed guy and an active guy the same?

Your right we didnt have to deal with all the above mentioned, we only had to deal with not affording to be able to pay our mortgage, feed our family, things you dont think are as important.
Not to mention the only reason we were furloughed was do to the union saving 100 eagle jobs at the cost of 100 TSA jobs

CaptainCarl
07-28-2011, 05:21 PM
Is that your fault? Of course it isn't. Furloughs happen. Things like furlough, FMLA, etc isn't the fault of the pilot, however, you weren't here dealing with scheduling, broken airplanes, reduced rests, etc while on furlough. The bucket in the signing bonus distribution dealing with longevity deals with being a pilot on active status during the period that contract was amendable (Aug '06 and forward). If your hire date is August 2006 or before you're eligible for 100% of your share of that bucket - anything after that, your portion is reduced.

Yes I know it sucks, but it's the most equitable way to attempt to compensate those who were on active status through the duration of the amendable period. Unfortunately, furloughs, though on the list, were not active. Would it be fair to compensate a furloughed guy and an active guy the same? Or how about those new hires that are just finishing up class? Should they get the same amount as a guy that has been here since Sept 2006?

Your right we didnt have to deal with all the above mentioned, we only had to deal with not affording to be able to pay our mortgage, feed our family, things you dont think are as important.
Not to mention the only reason we were furloughed was do to the union saving 100 eagle jobs at the cost of 100 TSA jobs

Quote button, it's not just there to look pretty. But don't worry, I fixed it for ya ;)

Positive_Rate
07-28-2011, 05:41 PM
Your right we didnt have to deal with all the above mentioned, we only had to deal with not affording to be able to pay our mortgage, feed our family, things you dont think are as important.
Not to mention the only reason we were furloughed was do to the union saving 100 eagle jobs at the cost of 100 TSA jobs

Did I say getting furloughed is great? Things I don't care about? GMaFB, Gary. Getting furloughed is probably one of the worst things you'll ever have to deal with in your career, and yes, the effects of a furlough suck ass.

I'm not talking, nor was anyone else talking, about anything other than this signing bonus, and I don't think we need to sidetrack discussions on to what happens when you get furloughed. I'm sorry you weren't able find other employment while furloughed. That sucks, and I'm sorry. But this signing bonus, in my opinion, isn't meant to be an attempt to make up for time away from work.

Anyone else, or am I way off base here?

RuttR
07-28-2011, 07:37 PM
Not to mention the only reason we were furloughed was do to the union saving 100 eagle jobs at the cost of 100 TSA jobs

Transstates Management made the decision to operated leased a/c from AMR while AMR had an agreement with the Eagle pilots that said they couldn't furlough unless they had all their a/c.

Why are people blaming the TSA MEC for TSA Management being too cheap and borrowing a/c from AMR rather than buy their own?

TSA pilots were furloughed because of a TSA business decision not the union.

Atreyu
07-28-2011, 07:55 PM
Did I say getting furloughed is great? Things I don't care about? GMaFB, Gary. Getting furloughed is probably one of the worst things you'll ever have to deal with in your career, and yes, the effects of a furlough suck ass.

I'm not talking, nor was anyone else talking, about anything other than this signing bonus, and I don't think we need to sidetrack discussions on to what happens when you get furloughed. I'm sorry you weren't able find other employment while furloughed. That sucks, and I'm sorry. But this signing bonus, in my opinion, isn't meant to be an attempt to make up for time away from work.

Anyone else, or am I way off base here?
You know I wholeheartedly agree with you brotato

Here's a good scenario. What about the furloughs who deferred their recall once, then took it when it came back up to the list to them. Some of those guys deferred because they were getting paid better doing another job. Other guys went off and found better flying gigs, then decided to come back because they'd hold better schedules. They were probably here for 9 or 10 months, then furloughed for 2 years, then come back for 10 months and are like "HEY!!!! How come all these guys who were on property longer than I was here get more than I DO?!?!?!"

Salukipilot4590
07-28-2011, 08:54 PM
What about me?

I flight instructed while I was furloughed making no less than $300 a day.

I DESERVE no less than $10,000 in a signing bonus!


Lulz

cubbies4life
07-28-2011, 10:18 PM
not a waterskier but i'm a saluki and have a lot of friends there. As much as everyone says they aren't getting everything that they wanted. compared to what you all have, and what you've been offered in the past. I'd probably vote yes. (didn't vote in poll since my vote doesn't matter)

Positive_Rate
07-29-2011, 07:28 AM
TA PASSES

93% YES vote out of 85% of eligible voters.


CONGRATS EVERYONE!

gary0724
07-29-2011, 07:32 AM
You know I wholeheartedly agree with you brotato

Here's a good scenario. What about the furloughs who deferred their recall once, then took it when it came back up to the list to them. Some of those guys deferred because they were getting paid better doing another job. Other guys went off and found better flying gigs, then decided to come back because they'd hold better schedules. They were probably here for 9 or 10 months, then furloughed for 2 years, then come back for 10 months and are like "HEY!!!! How come all these guys who were on property longer than I was here get more than I DO?!?!?!"


Ok what about us furloughs that where here over 2 years then couldn't get an interview anywhere, came back right away, now we get next to nothing? you complain about schedules, broken planes, I wish I could complain about that, I only have to complain about almost loosing my house, and recieving threats about turning my electricity off.
But over all the contract looks good, and Im geared up for a greatly needed raise. Not bad if you think about it, thier is more good in the contract than bad, and of course nothing is perfect, but I still think I should be getting more than 500 $ after loosing way over 10,000 $

CaptainCarl
07-29-2011, 07:38 AM
TA PASSES

93% YES vote out of 85% of eligible voters.


CONGRATS EVERYONE!

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/8/5/huhwhoda128624543862644450.jpg

:D



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