Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




k2climb
01-26-2012, 06:44 AM
I will get a type rating(B737NG) combine with FAA ATP license. But no turbine time at all. The Eagle Jet offering 500 hour B737NG program + Guaranteed 4 years employment for $39700 in Asia Base. Anyone advice or informations about this program?


captjns
01-26-2012, 08:16 AM
I will get a type rating(B737NG) combine with FAA ATP license. But no turbin time at all. The Eagle Jet offering 500 hour B737NG program + Guaranteed 4 years employment for $39700 in Asia Base. Would you advice and anyone knowing about this program? Is it possible get a job in China with only type rating? Thank you for your comments.:)

Paying any entity to sit in the right seat of any aircraft merely undermines the work that we, as professionals, are trying to achieve in improving terms and conditions for us as a whole.

Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution and earn your way into the right seat of the jet the way we did.

There is no carrier that will hire you into the left seat with only right seat time.

You want to get ahead in this industry, then you need to respect your colleagues who did not take any short cuts to the right seat of a shiny jet.

Photon
01-26-2012, 09:59 AM
Whole heartedly agree with captain over here. Eagle Jet is what is wrong with this industry incarnate, and I have zero respect for anyone who goes through one of their programs.
Just the thought of actually PAYING to work as a first officer, the very thought is appalling..
Eagle jet is a remarkable tool to do some quality "queue jumping" so to speak, as you basically bypass all your fellow aviators who tried to do it the right way and skip to the front of the line.

Conclusion: don't make a prostitute out of yourself, keep some semblance of a professional attitude, and work your way up the ladder as you should...


k2climb
01-26-2012, 12:14 PM
Conclusion: don't make a prostitute out of yourself, keep some semblance of a professional attitude, and work your way up the ladder as you should...

Photon,I was just curious about their program and share information with people.
But your word,"prostitute...semblance of a professional attitude" that's improper manner in public website.
I don't know about your background in aviation, first you better learn to what is a true professioanl and humble yourself.

Photon
01-26-2012, 01:46 PM
So a true aviation professional is defined by his use of words in public forums? That's interesting.
To be honest, my use of words were very conservative, and I could've used something much stronger.
This is, in my opinion, an apt description of anyone willing to embark on such a program, and if you read my post, you will see that I wasn't directly referring to you in person, but any individual participating in the race to the bottom

edit: you were interested in information about the program, I gave you my 2 cents about the program. Educational isn't it?

jbt1407
01-26-2012, 03:25 PM
Photon,I was just curious about their program and share information with people.
But your word,"prostitute...semblance of a professional attitude" that's improper manner in public website.
I don't know about your background in aviation, first you better learn to what is a true professioanl and humble yourself.

The very thought that you are considering this program shows YOU are the epitome of unprofessionalism. Like everyone said, pay your dues and dont drag the industry down for pilots and future pilots like myself.

captjns
01-26-2012, 05:08 PM
The very thought that you are considering this program shows YOU are the epitome of unprofessionalism. Like everyone said, pay your dues and dont drag the industry down for pilots and future pilots like myself.

K2CLIMB should not considered the prostitute... wrong choice of words.

Eagle Jet is the prostitute, and the individual WILLING to pay to fly, the one looking for instant gratification is the John.

You wake up the next day, minus a bit of money, and self dignity. Where are you? the same place you started.

There are only two winners in this case. Lion Air is the who gets free labor, and Eagle who get's paid for services rendered. And what's the oldest profession on the planet?



By the way anyone who is employed by Eagle Jet... please feel free to chime in.

ImperialxRat
01-26-2012, 05:29 PM
Well, he is here coming here for information, he didn't say he was doing the program, so let's not be too harsh yet.

The above posters are correct by saying that these programs really degrade our industry, and they cause other pilots to dislike you... if you went and did one of these programs you would be embarrassed to talk about it for the rest of your career.

If you want information you could always call them and ask... I'm curious about how you would get an ATP when going into the company with 500 hours, unless they guarantee to get you your ATP once you're qualified. It would probably be 2 years of working before you would qualify for the ATP. I would also want to make sure that it is done in the USA. What is the pay like once you're on board?... would it make up for the $40k initial deposit? How stable is the company?.. Will they even be around in 4 years to honor your 4 year employment contract? Where would you be based? Is there a possibility to upgrade to captain after 4 years, or is it an FO only position? What is the penalty for leaving prior to your 4 years?.. I am assuming there wouldn't be a penalty since you have already paid $40k to the company for an FO job in a 3rd world country.

These are some questions you should call and ask them if you are considering this option. Also ask them how the payment is done... I would negotiate that they deduct from your paycheck over the course of 4 years... which would be $833/mo ($40,000 / 48 months). When you put it that way, it seems ludicrous to pay somebody close to $850/mo for a job... it is supposed to be the other way around - they pay you to work for them.

Let us know what info you find out.

PCLCREW
01-26-2012, 06:59 PM
I will get a type rating(B737NG) combine with FAA ATP license. But no turbine time at all. The Eagle Jet offering 500 hour B737NG program + Guaranteed 4 years employment for $39700 in Asia Base. Anyone advice or informations about this program?

So your gonna pay a company 40K plus pay for a 737 type... Crazy IMHO... not to mention its the lowest way to try to get a job. If your getting grief here imagine what will happen when you step out into the real world. There are thousands of pilots trying to move on to the next step.. If you think because you have money to burn is gonna make you look better or get into a into a good job... think again. Karma is a B.

hesitant
01-27-2012, 12:47 PM
I can tell you for sure that these pay for training programs are a really bad deal. There may be no upgrade chance at all. Don't forget how important that upgrade is. Other pilots will lose respect for you for good reason. There are plenty of companies that will pay you, so why pay Eagle Jet?

captjns
01-28-2012, 03:03 AM
I would love to see a list compiled of those who chose to undermine the naturals system of getting a job with a carrier by legitimate means. That list should be distributed among every chief pilot of every operator, be it legacy carrier, commuter, or 135 operation for appropriate action should one of these little cheats shows up for a job:mad:.

Photon
01-28-2012, 04:38 AM
That's a dream of mine as well. A master scab list for p2f

zondaracer
01-28-2012, 07:00 AM
I agree!

Will Fly For Free, The Unprofessional Pilot Wall Of Shame!! (http://www.willflyforfree.com/)

KoruPilot
01-28-2012, 04:27 PM
I have had a number of low time/no time pilots ask my advise, in the past and very recently. I'm sure this happens to many people on this board and perhaps what I do could help with the problem of the "Gulfstream International" syndrome, as I like to call it.

Simply tell the would be aviator that you will help them as much as possible (I'm pretty good at this part) in getting theri first job as well as progressing from there. But, if they decide to buy a type rating with 250hrs total and go fly for free, or pay to fly a jet for some Indonesian carrier, or a Metro for some freight op, then they will get just the opposite. In my world, not helping is not good.

Sitting down for beers one night in Shanghai with a couple of contractors we came to the conclusion that if each of us sent out five emails, and made five phone calls, we could probably get the story on just about any pilot who was involved in ex-pat/contract flying. It's a small world, a very small world, and a good, quick, friendly discussion with any would be aviators regarding how easily they can be helped, as well as the opposite, should be enough to keep them from making a mistake.

I always also include reasons why working ones way up also makes a person a better aviator. It's very simple, but it's very effective as well.

captjns
01-28-2012, 06:10 PM
Sitting down for beers one night in Shanghai with a couple of contractors we came to the conclusion that if each of us sent out five emails, and made five phone calls, we could probably get the story on just about any pilot who was involved in ex-pat/contract flying. It's a small world, a very small world, and a good, quick, friendly discussion with any would be aviators regarding how easily they can be helped, as well as the opposite, should be enough to keep them from making a mistake.

I always also include reasons why working ones way up also makes a person a better aviator. It's very simple, but it's very effective as well.

Good point Kuru. I've given advice to some would be aviators about the foibles of the Eagle / Lion Air program. Like most young children instant gratification seems to get in the way of the natural progression from PPL to ATPL flying.

In my part of the world where I am flying, I've noticed that there are more pilots from wealthy back families have no issues in buying there way into the cockpit. Pity... I've spoken to a couple of these lads who are willing to have their parents pay $35,000, plus housing without regard to those who are trying to gain entry to the cockpit rather than following the natural progression. Unfortunately there's no way to get the message to the parents of these children of the damage that they continue to inflict on the industry.


I hope Chief Pilots from other carriers keep there eyes open for applicants who've participated in such programs.


I would welcome a debate the issue with Eagle Aviation. Let them justify to pilots currently employed with such dismal employment conditions as how they fell they are a part of the solution rather than being part of the problem.


I'm open to thoughts on this issue.

PCLCREW
01-28-2012, 08:24 PM
Good point Kuru. I've given advice to some would be aviators about the foibles of the Eagle / Lion Air program. Like most young children instant gratification seems to get in the way of the natural progression from PPL to ATPL flying.

In my part of the world where I am flying, I've noticed that there are more pilots from wealthy back families have no issues in buying there way into the cockpit. Pity... I've spoken to a couple of these lads who are willing to have their parents pay $35,000, plus housing without regard to those who are trying to gain entry to the cockpit rather than following the natural progression. Unfortunately there's no way to get the message to the parents of these children of the damage that they continue to inflict on the industry.


I hope Chief Pilots from other carriers keep there eyes open for applicants who've participated in such programs.


I would welcome a debate the issue with Eagle Aviation. Let them justify to pilots currently employed with such dismal employment conditions as how they fell they are a part of the solution rather than being part of the problem.


I'm open to thoughts on this issue.

hopefully in years to come many of us who have broken our backs for this industry will be sitting across an interview table with someone like you.
We can only hope.

frozenboxhauler
01-28-2012, 08:40 PM
Conclusion: don't make a prostitute out of yourself, keep some semblance of a professional attitude, and work your way up the ladder as you should...

Photon,I was just curious about their program and share information with people.
But your word,"prostitute...semblance of a professional attitude" that's improper manner in public website.
I don't know about your background in aviation, first you better learn to what is a true professioanl and humble yourself.

k2climb, don't do it.
Most of us ARE "prostitutes", as we "receive compensation for providing a service". Some of us though, sadly, are "wh0re$" as the give it away. Please don't make that mistake, as it hurts all of us.
Good luck to you in your career goals, you will make it if you keep at it.
Sincerely,
fbh

RJSAviator76
01-31-2012, 05:00 AM
K2... do it. Pay for your line training and 500 hours. By all means....

But then remember that when you're asking for a job or raise or wonder why you're paid an absolute pittance. Remember, they cannot move a 737 without the guy in the right seat which means they cannot generate revenue.

So, with all due respect, how stupid do you have to be to pay them for the privilege of generating revenue for them?

captjns
01-31-2012, 05:27 AM
K2... do it. Pay for your line training and 500 hours. By all means....

But then remember that when you're asking for a job or raise or wonder why you're paid an absolute pittance. Remember, they cannot move a 737 without the guy in the right seat which means they cannot generate revenue.

So, with all due respect, how stupid do you have to be to pay them for the privilege of generating revenue for them?

I've been banging out my thought on the keyboard... and for what. Trying to reason with a bunch of future children of the magenta line who have the backing of their rich families, or have the means to secure loans to pay for such schemes. And if they do secure loans it's guaranteed by their families too.

Well I guess my point is this is that I've got a little over 3 and a half years til I hang up the goggles and hope to never step on a commercial airliner again. I'll stick to my good old trusty PA23 or mobile home to do my travelling.

At least my bulk of the last 22 years have been with foreign carriers that treat their skippers with respect, pay on time, and never interfered with my quality of life.

I pity the current skippers who are unfortunate to be paired with one of these little spoiled brats who feel they don't have to earn they way into the cockpit by honest time building flying.

As posted before, I hope a list of these short cutters is compiled for appropriate use by responsible chief pilots.

Hoof Hearted
02-03-2012, 12:41 AM
Wow, I've got to step back and look over things. I've worked hard most of my life and have been fortunate. But the old business model I learned is changing so quickly that I hardly recognize it. With the Federal Reserve milking the USA and pilots working for free, I think that I'll start a new business with Fed backing and use workers that pay me. I was an idiot to go to college...:confused:

ccale228
09-21-2012, 12:41 PM
I will get a type rating(B737NG) combine with FAA ATP license. But no turbine time at all. The Eagle Jet offering 500 hour B737NG program + Guaranteed 4 years employment for $39700 in Asia Base. Anyone advice or informations about this program?
Have you started yet? I am getting my type rating in Nov

ccale228
09-21-2012, 12:42 PM
Whole heartedly agree with captain over here. Eagle Jet is what is wrong with this industry incarnate, and I have zero respect for anyone who goes through one of their programs.
Just the thought of actually PAYING to work as a first officer, the very thought is appalling..
Eagle jet is a remarkable tool to do some quality "queue jumping" so to speak, as you basically bypass all your fellow aviators who tried to do it the right way and skip to the front of the line.

Conclusion: don't make a prostitute out of yourself, keep some semblance of a professional attitude, and work your way up the ladder as you should...
I understand that this Eagle Jet FO program and other similar programs lower the standard and quality of the work. But that is just one way of looking at the "problem" I am a Canadian pilot and after completing my flight training, i have been looking for a job for about 1.5 years. That includes driving up to Northern Canada for 3 weeks to drop off my resume in person, willing to pay my due by working on the ramp and willing to relocate to Northern Canada. guess what. I got one job offer and was willing to move to "The Pas, MB" from Where I live (Vancouver) and I was willing to work on the ramp for a year. But the company suddenly "had to downsize" and they got rid of my job. Not everyone is trying to spend money and take the short cut. I am living off on the money I made from my previous career working in finance. I have enough money to pay for this program and Id rather do this than trying to find that first job till my bank account shrinks.

captjns
09-24-2012, 11:14 PM
[QUOTE=ccale228;1264480I have enough money to pay for this program and Id rather do this than trying to find that first job till my bank account shrinks.[/QUOTE]

to be blunt, CCALE228, you will need to be prepared to take the barbs and criticism from those who did pay their dues. Perhaps they will not consider you as one of their peer professionals.

To avoid the Scarlet "S" (that's "S" as in Scab), you may want to re-enter the finance field to refill the war chest while seeking that dream job. By he way, there are airlines that offer cadet programmes. Additionally, there are training companies overseas looking for CFIs. They pay reasonably well too.

elabayarde
11-18-2012, 04:41 PM
Not to highjack the thread.. but
I have been trying to get solid info on the over seas flight schools. Can anyone provide me with direction. Thanks in advance.