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View Full Version : Mapd


BEWELCH
10-16-2006, 01:24 PM
Hey,

I'm Set To Get My A.s Degree With All My Ratings In May. I Dont Like School, And Im Really Not Looking Forward To Being A Cfi! So This Summer I'm Thinking Of Going To Mapd And Doing The Pace Program. Any Feed Back Would Be Appreciated!


rickair7777
10-16-2006, 02:23 PM
The good news...MAPD is one of the few "buy a job" programs that actually has a very high success rate.

The bad news...

1) If you are in the 20% that don't complete the program and/or get hired, you have a lot of debt, no job, and no cfi certificate.

2) If you do get hired, you will have to work for mesa...hands down the worst jet airline in the country (maybe the world). The low pay, poor lifestyle, management lies, abuse, and theft make the work environment a horrible one.

3) Without a 4 year degree, you will almost certainly be stuck at mesa for a very, very long time. NOBODY wants to be at mesa for any length of time. Don't believe me? Try it and see...you'll be kicking yourself in the @ss in a few years for not listening to me (and yes I learned the hard way).

4) If mesa downsizes dues to disatisfaction on the part of their code-share customers (a distinct possibility in the near future), you will have a lot of debt, no job, and no cfi certificate.

5) Your peers in the industry do not have a lot of respect for most mesa pilots, especially mesa pilots who do not have a cfi background (you learn a lot of important things as a CFI). This will not help your career. If you think you'll just stay at mesa and not worry about getting a job anywhere else, better think again...

To do this career right you need the 4 year degree and the CFI background. If you can't swing the degree right away, do the CFI thing first, then degree later. If you absolutely can't stand the thought of being a cfi, you probably should not be in the airline business...most airline captains have to play a instructor role with some or all of their FO's. There are some single-pilot general aviation flying jobs where you don't need to interact with others much...but you will probably still need the cfi ticket to get those jobs.

BEWELCH
10-16-2006, 03:10 PM
What About The Atp Cfi Program?? If I Had To Go The Cfi Route, So Be It. I Just Cant Stand Two More Years Of College!


ctd57
10-16-2006, 05:48 PM
Everything that rickair said is 100% true. If you don't get a degree, good luck ever flying for anyone but regional. What is two years of schooling compared to a lifetime of regional flying. Some people love it, and if you are one of those people go for it. Everyone these days applying at something other than the regionals(i.e. majors, netjets etc...) has a college degree. If they got hired without it, than they were extremely lucky. I used to work at ATP and the CFI program has alot of success, but you need to do alot of prep before hand. Ya it is a two week program, but alot of it is getting used to the Seminole, Garman 430, making and presenting lesson plans and going over the PTS and important FARs. I hated the pay at ATP but I learned alot about flying while I was instructing there, and like rickair said, whenever I make Captain, I am sure that the instructing experience I had will help out greatly. You learn how to work with every type of person and it helps build patience and it makes you a more proficient pilot. You are responcible for everything so you have to do at least twice the work if not more than the student flying. If something were to happen in the future, say a furlough, if you have your CFI, you could find something to fall back on until you found another job or got called back. Plus, most pilots applying to the regionals have their CFI and that is one more aviation related item to help boost your resume. But the only thing that is right is what you want. We just put our 2 cents in, if you don't want to finish college and be a CFI than don't. Like I said, it is about what you want, not everyone on these forums.

BURflyer
10-16-2006, 10:55 PM
Hey,

I'm Set To Get My A.s Degree With All My Ratings In May. I Dont Like School, And Im Really Not Looking Forward To Being A Cfi! So This Summer I'm Thinking Of Going To Mapd And Doing The Pace Program. Any Feed Back Would Be Appreciated!


The academies might not be ok for you now since they cater 0 time pilots, just continue the pt61 way. If you get anything out of asking this question it's this; you will waste valuable time going through the PACE program. There is a HUGE downside to not going the CFI route and ultimately buying your job. It might look good on paper but in real life it will affect you in the years to come especially in future interview boards.

In the months you will be simulating flights in the shiny MAPD simulators you could actually become a CFI and get actual flight experience. I believe the pace program lasts about 3 months if everything goes ok and you will end up with 50 hour+ in your log book, that's it. In that time you could have loged in hundreds of hours as a CFI. A few months later you will have 1000 hours.

Now think about this, you will spend more time as an FO at MESA in order to be able to upgrade. Those guys with 1000 hours will be captains faster than you, if you can take that than go ahead do the PACE. They may say MAPD get seniority faster but what good is seniority if you don't have the time to upgrade?? Ask the MAPD sales people that same question, see what they say.

Last, it's about personal dignity. You will sell yourself to MESA when you accept that job offer as a 300 hour pilot. After all how much say does a 300 hour pilot have? Not much at all, they will be at the mercy of MESA. You won't get respect from other pilots who did it the right way and worst of all you won't be happy, I guarantee it. Aim high, good luck.

AirWillie
10-16-2006, 11:05 PM
I went up to the flight deck of a PHX based crew and asked them about MAPD, saying I was a pilot looking to fly for the airlines. I was a little nervous asking them but they turned out to be really laid back. They gave me minutes worth of MAPD talk and the final concensus was "Don't do it". Most pilots are nice and are happy to help out new guys with career questions, just go up and introduce youself and ask them if they can help you out. Ask both regional and major pilots if you can, most have heard about MAPD and other academies.

BEWELCH
10-17-2006, 03:28 PM
Im Part 141 At A Univ In The Midwest.

Laxrox43
10-17-2006, 03:40 PM
How much time do you have Bewelch? It might be a little easier to give you suggestions if we knew your Certs/Ratings...and a rough figure of your times...

Just a suggestion...
Lax

BEWELCH
10-18-2006, 05:36 AM
102 hours ifr check ride next month. (The plan at the school is 1 rating a semester!)

Laxrox43
10-18-2006, 06:37 AM
Well, that's good that you are getting through quickly. Now if you were to go the ATP route to get your CFI/CFII/MEI, that wouldn't be such a bad deal. You aren't gaurenteed a job with ATP afterward, but there is a good chance that doing their instructor program will help with job placement as an instructor. (Guys and Gals from ATP...chime in and correct me if I am wrong!)

I did my Multi-Engine Commercial add-on through them. If you can follow their procedures to the "T" then you are all set. Good luck if you try doing it your way, I watched a lady fail her ATP MEL checkride, because she was stuck on doing everything her way...

Just be aware, that if you do decide to go the ATP route for your instructor certs. that you should front load ALL of your studying for PPL/Inst./CPL/MEL stuff. When I did my commercial add-on, they only gave me a ground lesson on the aircraft systems (real basic) and the maneuvers.

Anyways...good luck in what you decide to do. My suggestion would be to check out a local FBO and see if they can help you out. I bet it will be a lot cheaper...and if you get on their good graces, you might land yourself a job ;)

GOOD LUCK BUD!
Lax