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View Full Version : ATP's 90 Days Track


MaoriCho
10-17-2006, 05:49 AM
Three questions:

I'm 24, single, with one BS degree in engineering.
I've been reseraching many of the flight academies. I almost went to CAPT before it closed down, and then almost went to DCA before I found this website.

Through this website I found ATP. It's a little bit cheapter than DCA (by a lot than CAPT) and I think I can afford to take 90 days fast track, because I'm currently unemployed. However, I read from somewhere on this website that airlines don't desire people from 'fast tracks' True? What's the point of taking a fast track and wasting $50 grand?

Secondly, doesn't it look better on the resume to take flight training at an acedemy than a local FBO just because you know that they will get a guaranteed good training then?

Thirdly, is there like a hidden employing hand that only selects mostly Caucasian Americans in the airline business? I'm a naturalized citizen. (Korean) It concenrs me that there are so few number of Asian US carrier pilots. Do you think there is a slight chance of racism/favoritism that exists in the selecting process?

Thank you.


de727ups
10-17-2006, 10:00 AM
If you're talking about ATP's 90 day program that's PPL to CFI, then it's not the same as CAPT style "fast track". The ATP program leads you into instructing for a while and then on to a regional. While I think a going from zero time to CFI in four months and then going on to teach newbies is less than ideal, a lot of folks at ATP do this.

"doesn't it look better on the resume to take flight training at an acedemy than a local FBO just because you know that they will get a guaranteed good training then"

Going to an academy doesn't "guarantee" good training. I know of smaller flight schools that no doubt have better training than academies. There are certainly other with worse, too.

Some of the big academies have slightly reduced hiring mins at a few regionals. While I think the big academy marketing overplays the advantages of this, it may be worth it to some people to pay more upfront to spend a few less months as a CFI.

BURflyer
10-18-2006, 12:20 AM
Three questions:

Through this website I found ATP. It's a little bit cheapter than DCA (by a lot than CAPT) and I think I can afford to take 90 days fast track, because I'm currently unemployed. However, I read from somewhere on this website that airlines don't desire people from 'fast tracks' True? What's the point of taking a fast track and wasting $50 grand?

.


Welcome to the site. First of all I have to say that it doesn't matter where you received your flight training. In the end, you will get an FAA certificate, it looks the same regardles what school you went. Does it matter where you learned how to drive? Same thing. Saver your money, first and sometimes second year pay at regionals is very low.

Also, DCA/ATP etc. are not fast track meaning you get a job with less hours than regular applicants, it just means that you will do your ratings faster/full time, this is not a problem. There are other programs that offer interivew opportunities with regionals with lower times, like MESA pilot development and the ATP airline transition program, these are the ones you should avoid as it is considered taking the short cut which is not considered very highly by most interview boards.

Do not be influenced by the "90" days ATP program, while it does work, you will have to spend, on average, at least a year from 0 time to being able to apply for a regional job.

Lastly about your racial comment, it's nonsense. The reason is because there are not many Asian pilots in the business. That is not to say that there are none, I've seen asian pilots at United, Skywest, and others. The airlines are quite diverce. I've run into Middle Eastern pilots, British, German and others flying for U.S carriers. If you meet the requirements, you can get a job.


MaoriCho
10-18-2006, 05:25 AM
Thank you for your answers. It helped immensely.

rickair7777
10-18-2006, 09:06 AM
As a degreed engineer, you will not need any hand-holding on the academics. US pilot training is pretty easy as far as books and tests go (compared to europe, australia, etc). If you pay a lot of money and find yourself sitting in a class on recip-engine fundamentals that is geared to someone with an AA in underwater-basket-weaving, you will be bored to tears.

If you can find a good deal on flight time and instruction, you can study on your own. Might save some bucks that way.

preludespeeder
10-18-2006, 10:33 AM
Maoricho, I highly recomend that you do not go to ATP. Their 90 day program does not work. In AZ I have been talking to the local DPEs and they were telling me that the ATP students have a high fail rate and that the knowledge that you need to learn is not being acheived. Do not be fooled by their sales men into thinking that you can go from zero to hero in 90 days, you might have the certificate in your hand at the end of the day but you may still know as little about aviation as you do now. Go to a school that has a normal program that is about a year long. If you want to become an airline pilot the things you learn in the begining must be solid in order to make it through some of the hiring processes out there. ATP's goal is to get you to memorize the things you need for the test but you never really understand it.

sigep_nm
10-18-2006, 10:57 AM
Agreed Prelude
Training for a rating is not the same as trying to fly with that rating. Professional athletes are not made over night and neither should a pilot be.

CAPTAINxJSB
10-18-2006, 02:13 PM
go with the atp self paced program.... i started with zero... at my own pace i did pp and the career program in a little under a year and it is advertised as 14 months at the most....but i bet u i know way more then those 90 day guyz!! you get way more time to soak up the knowledge....get a side job while u go and save your freaking money for the regionals...cause u will need it.... good luck


p.s. my first ever instructor was Korean....best instructor i ever had!!:D

AirWillie
10-18-2006, 03:13 PM
Maoricho, I highly recomend that you do not go to ATP. Their 90 day program does not work. In AZ I have been talking to the local DPEs and they were telling me that the ATP students have a high fail rate and that the knowledge that you need to learn is not being acheived. .


That is what I have heard also and to add, most ATP students do the 90 day program instead of the self pace:eek: Just go through the local school or find a good pt141 pro flight school that is dedicated to your knowlege intake. Remember in the 80s and 90s pilots had to have thousands of hours and a lot of multi-engine time to be considered for regional airline flying, so you're only kidding yourself if you expect to have the experience need by flying a few months.

Flying Ninja
10-25-2006, 03:51 PM
I almost went to CAPT before it closed down, and then almost went to DCA before I found this website.

Through this website I found ATP. It's a little bit cheapter than DCA (by a lot than CAPT) and I think I can afford to take 90 days fast track, because I'm currently unemployed.

Lucky for you that you didn't sign up with CAPT. Consider it a blessing because you just saved yourself a world of hurt. Good luck with your flight training, sir.

ctd57
10-25-2006, 04:48 PM
Maoricho, I highly recomend that you do not go to ATP. Their 90 day program does not work. In AZ I have been talking to the local DPEs and they were telling me that the ATP students have a high fail rate and that the knowledge that you need to learn is not being acheived. Do not be fooled by their sales men into thinking that you can go from zero to hero in 90 days, you might have the certificate in your hand at the end of the day but you may still know as little about aviation as you do now. Go to a school that has a normal program that is about a year long. If you want to become an airline pilot the things you learn in the begining must be solid in order to make it through some of the hiring processes out there. ATP's goal is to get you to memorize the things you need for the test but you never really understand it.

First of all, the 90 program does work, and you don't go from zero to hero in 90 days. I started with ATP in May 2005, finished the 90 day program in July 2005, and have been instructing ever since. I just got on with a regional over a year after starting to work for ATP, I am not saying that I am the almighty pilot, far from it, but every time you go up one more rung on the ladder of aviation, the more you learn, and I am ready to learn from my own studies, and the Captains with whom I will fly with. Unless you went to ATP, don't speak of which you do not know. There are hundreds of people who go through the program and are successful professional pilots today. I am not saying that ATP is for everyone, you must make your own mind up on where to go. Aviation is one of those jobs that you learn alot with experience. No one is going to come out of a year long program and know everything there is to know. Whether you do it in a year or 90 days, you still cover the same information. At the 90 day program, it is an 8 hour day, basically a full time job. You do nothing but aviation. As a success story of the 90 day program, I highly recommend it. So many people like the person quoted above, talk about topics on which they have no facts, just hersay and rumors. Make your decision based upon your own research, not from people who just run their mouths. I would never make comments about DCA or Riddle b/c I have no personal experience with those schools.

de727ups
10-25-2006, 05:48 PM
With all due respect, as a CFI since 1980 and having signed off about 50 IFR ratings over the years, and as a 121 airline pilot since 1988, I think I'm entitled to my opinion that going from PPL to CFI in 90 days is less than ideal. You're welcome to disagree but saying one shouldn't have an opinion about ATP unless one has gone there just doesn't sound right to me.

ctd57
10-26-2006, 07:51 AM
With all due respect, as a CFI since 1980 and having signed off about 50 IFR ratings over the years, and as a 121 airline pilot since 1988, I think I'm entitled to my opinion that going from PPL to CFI in 90 days is less than ideal. You're welcome to disagree but saying one shouldn't have an opinion about ATP unless one has gone there just doesn't sound right to me.

I totally respect everything that you have done throughout your aviation career, and I never made a comment about your opinion. You have alot more experience than I, and I hope that I can continue my success in the same aspect that you have, but that was just my opinion. I my mind, I am not going to make a comment about anything unless I had personal experience, that might have been one location that had some instructors that really didn't care and taught their students poorly, all I am saying is that there alot more success at ATP than failure, and just because a group of instructors doesn't care, it makes a bad name for all of us. That is why I said on my last post, do your homework, and don't make one person make up your mind about any flightschool that you want to attend. I know that I wouldn't.

preludespeeder
10-28-2006, 08:23 AM
CTD57, I made my comment on the basis of hearing from DPE's, do you know what those are, they give you your ticket when you pass. When I took a checkride with one the DPE's, which for your knowledge is a well known examiner named Bruni in the phoenix area, she is slightly below the level of june bonestill, and she comments on how the 90 day program is not good, i listen. This is a person that has been in aviation longer then both of our ages added together. I did do my homework and commented on a pretty good rumor. Just because you passed does not mean the 90 day program is good. At the school I went to we have over an 80% pass rate on the checkrides the first time. Tell me what the 90 day student pass rate is at ATP. Lets compare apples to apples.

Puckhead
10-28-2006, 09:40 AM
First of all, the 90 program does work, and you don't go from zero to hero in 90 days. I started with ATP in May 2005, finished the 90 day program in July 2005, and have been instructing ever since. I just got on with a regional over a year after starting to work for ATP, I am not saying that I am the almighty pilot, far from it, but every time you go up one more rung on the ladder of aviation, the more you learn, and I am ready to learn from my own studies, and the Captains with whom I will fly with. Unless you went to ATP, don't speak of which you do not know. There are hundreds of people who go through the program and are successful professional pilots today. I am not saying that ATP is for everyone, you must make your own mind up on where to go. Aviation is one of those jobs that you learn alot with experience. No one is going to come out of a year long program and know everything there is to know. Whether you do it in a year or 90 days, you still cover the same information. At the 90 day program, it is an 8 hour day, basically a full time job. You do nothing but aviation. As a success story of the 90 day program, I highly recommend it. So many people like the person quoted above, talk about topics on which they have no facts, just hersay and rumors. Make your decision based upon your own research, not from people who just run their mouths. I would never make comments about DCA or Riddle b/c I have no personal experience with those schools.

I agree with this guy, i mean theres a lot of aviation experience on these forums and really all the advice/ experience you could want but theres also a lot of people who are pretty hard headed. I think if you havent been to the school you really cant know what your talking about. Now granted we all do research and hear stories from other people but until you live it I just dont see how you can say that something's bad. I currently go to a flight school that is very hated on these boards and just from my personal experience most people are wrong. Thats just my opinion though, do with it what you want.

LAfrequentflyer
10-28-2006, 10:19 AM
I agree with this guy, i mean theres a lot of aviation experience on these forums and really all the advice/ experience you could want but theres also a lot of people who are pretty hard headed. I think if you havent been to the school you really cant know what your talking about. Now granted we all do research and hear stories from other people but until you live it I just dont see how you can say that something's bad. I currently go to a flight school that is very hated on these boards and just from my personal experience most people are wrong. Thats just my opinion though, do with it what you want.

The vast amount of evidence on this and other boards (flightinfo, expressjetpilotsforum) speaks for ATP and their programs (90 day and 10 month self-paced).

They (ATP) have an outstanding product at a competitive price. Would I like to see it cheaper? You bet. Who wouldn't? Unfortunately, they have priced it at levels the market will support.

Compare ATP to the other schools / mills out there. Their product holds it own.

Who cares about the school's reputation? No one except the people that paid too much and need to defend their decision.

All I want are the FAA ratings. Thats all the airline will be interested in seeing - valid FAA ratings.

-LAFF

Puckhead
10-28-2006, 10:30 AM
The vast amount of evidence on this and other boards (flightinfo, expressjetpilotsforum) speaks for ATP and their programs (90 day and 10 month self-paced).

They (ATP) have an outstanding product at a competitive price. Would I like to see it cheaper? You bet. Who wouldn't? Unfortunately, they have priced it at levels the market will support.

Compare ATP to the other schools / mills out there. Their product holds it own.

Who cares about the school's reputation? No one except the people that paid too much and need to defend their decision.

All I want are the FAA ratings. Thats all the airline will be interested in seeing - valid FAA ratings.

-LAFF


Im not against what you say either you make a very good point that in the end is true.

preludespeeder
10-29-2006, 02:19 AM
Wow some people just do not know how to read. If an FAA designated examiner says that they are seeing the product of the 90 program and they say it does not work, then what will it take. There are two people in this world who can comment from first hand knowledge about that program, the student who would be you people and the examiner who test you to see if you meet the criterea. If one of those people, for example the examiner, says that the students are going to fast and can not reach the correlitive level learning they are only working on rote and failing checkrides because of it a higher rate then other schools in the area then what does that mean. It means that the 90 day program is not for everybody. I hope this more clear for some on hear.