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View Full Version : What to do with student...


WhiteH2O
10-24-2006, 10:12 PM
There is a student that I am scheduled to fly with tomorrow. He usualy flies with an instructor that takes him up for 90 degree bank turns and low flying. He is pre solo. He wants to fly with me because he heard that I like to fly in the mountains. That is true, but I don't do reckless things, and I don't take people into the mountains untill they get their private license, and then I do a fairly normal mountain checkout. I am pretty sure that this guy wants me to show him how to fly low and fast down canyons and stuff.

I am not going to take him into the mountains, but I am not even sure that I want to fly with this guy. Should I just take him up and do normal slow flight and take-off and landing stuff, or should I pawn him off on someone else? Any ideas are welcome.


rickair7777
10-24-2006, 10:22 PM
There is a student that I am scheduled to fly with tomorrow. He usualy flies with an instructor that takes him up for 90 degree bank turns and low flying. He is pre solo. He wants to fly with me because he heard that I like to fly in the mountains. That is true, but I don't do reckless things, and I don't take people into the mountains untill they get their private license, and then I do a fairly normal mountain checkout. I am pretty sure that this guy wants me to show him how to fly low and fast down canyons and stuff.

I am not going to take him into the mountains, but I am not even sure that I want to fly with this guy. Should I just take him up and do normal slow flight and take-off and landing stuff, or should I pawn him off on someone else? Any ideas are welcome.

Take him up if you are certain you can prevent HIM from doing 90 degree turns and flat hatting... You both might learn something.

fedupbusdriver
10-25-2006, 05:37 AM
I would explain to him exactly what your game plan for the flight is before you step to the aircraft. If he mentions wanting to do the type of flying mentioned above, take the time to explain why you are not going to allow it. You are in charge, and ultimately responsible for the flight. Maybe he will learn something from your talk. If he doesn't like the game plan, let him find someone else to fly with.


ctd57
10-25-2006, 06:22 AM
What type of aircraft are you training in that you can do 90 AOB turns in and is fast for a private pilot, a T-6? Last I knew, a 172 or 152 wasn't fast and couldn't do a 90 degree turn, or shouldn't. I believe that is out of envelope for G's isn't it?

WhiteH2O
10-25-2006, 06:46 AM
What type of aircraft are you training in that you can do 90 AOB turns in and is fast for a private pilot, a T-6? Last I knew, a 172 or 152 wasn't fast and couldn't do a 90 degree turn, or shouldn't. I believe that is out of envelope for G's isn't it?

172. I don't know how they are doing 90 AOB turns, probably just putting in 90 degree angle and letting the nose fall...

I don't know. The instructor that is showing that to him is not a safe pilot, and has been talked to a few times by the chief pilots about what he does. I doubt they know about this.

GotheriK
10-25-2006, 06:51 AM
Pre-solo? 90-degree turns? Low-flying?

When I was pre-solo I was petrified to even enter a class D, much less do any of that! :eek: :p

Anyway, just put him in his place. Tell him he's not experienced enough to do all that.

A little off-topic, but does anyone know about 0G dives in a 172?

WhiteH2O
10-25-2006, 07:29 AM
Tell him he's not experienced enough to do all that.

A little off-topic, but does anyone know about 0G dives in a 172?

I like that idea. I will tell him that he doesnt have the airplane handling skills that are required for mountain flight. Even when he gets the skills, he has the hazardous attitudes that make me want to not teach him. Although he will probably go do it anyways eventualy.

0G dives in a 172 are no big deal. Remember that the fuel is gravity fed, so don't make it last too long.

sigep_nm
10-25-2006, 11:01 AM
If he is just a pre solo there is probably still time to keep him from killing himself. He may also be confused in thinking about this 90 bank you are talking about. He may be looking at the attitude indicator and thinking that the 60 degree point is actually 90. There is some benefit in showing students a 60 degree bank so they can understand how the aircraft reacts when you start to engage in higher bank angles (ie. nose down, lose of altitude, accelerated stall). I personally take all my pre solo students through the demonstration stalls (trim stall, accelerated, secondary, cross controlled) because they all relate to a situation that the student may accidentally put themselves into on a solo flight. 90 degrees seems a little extreme and I assume you would probably stall prior to that if you are trying to do anything but descend.

fludy12
10-25-2006, 12:49 PM
Take him up for a 180 degree autorotation. :D

multipilot
10-26-2006, 04:23 AM
Clearly this other instructor is not doing this student any favors. I knew of a few instructors who would go out and show their students barrel rolls and loops in 152s and 172RGs. They had to prove they were hot stuff. Now, these aircraft lost their airworthiness certificates due to structural cracks in the forward and aft bulkheads. Show the student what he is supposed to be doing. Maybe even go over the five hazardous attitudes and their antidotes.

172. I don't know how they are doing 90 AOB turns, probably just putting in 90 degree angle and letting the nose fall...


That is more than likely the case. To give you an idea, while maintaining a constant altitude, a 60 degree bank will generate 2g's, 70 degrees = 3Gs, 80 degrees = 5.76 Gs. The normal category tops out at 3.8 and utility 4.4 if I remember correctly.

Pilotpip
10-26-2006, 01:04 PM
I think the question is not so much what to do with this student, but what to do with the instructor. Who in their right mind does that kind of crap in a 172?

mike734
10-26-2006, 01:44 PM
Just say NO. You are PIC. He needs to get slapped down now. He can take all the aerobatic training he wants after he gets the PVT.

ctd57
10-27-2006, 06:19 AM
I think the question is not so much what to do with this student, but what to do with the instructor. Who in their right mind does that kind of crap in a 172?

He just wants to think that he is in a Hornet. Anyway, that instructor should be scrapped. I no way should you be demonstrating that kind of flying to a pre solo pilot. Someday, that guy is going to try that crap when he is soloing and end up a smoking hole. I would also steer that student away from mountain flying until they are more experienced. And you wonder where those idiot pilots out there come from.

"There are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots"

LAfrequentflyer
10-27-2006, 06:31 AM
Most pilots that make smoking holes in the ground have a history of behavior / attitudes that raise 'red-flags' over a sustained period of time.

This guy and his CFI will make the news one day.

I wouldn't fly with either of them...Tell it like it is - you don't fly with / teach unsafe students.

-LAFF

cjdriver
10-27-2006, 06:48 AM
It's this type of mentality towards safety that end's up with a plane in the side of a building. Do not allow this attitude to persist. It effects us all.

fludy12
10-27-2006, 10:46 AM
It's this type of mentality towards safety that end's up with a plane in the side of a building. Do not allow this attitude to persist. It effects us all.

Yup, or a disoriented/vertigo'd Kennedy augering in at night after an over water departure into marginal VFR conditions with very little flight time/experience for that "nice little trip" to Martha's Vineyard... Not to mention the other people killed in said aircraft...