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View Full Version : Open Letter From AA Captain


Tomahawk58
05-09-2012, 02:50 AM
I wish I was as eloquent as this captain about the trouble with the APA, but he says it best:

Whoop-Whoop! Pull-Up!
An Open Letter to APA Leadership and fellow AA Pilots
What kind of return can you expect from a $200 million dollar investment? Even in a down economy, a couple hundred million dollar investments with modest appreciation should have increased value, right? With roughly 4,000 CA’s and 6,000 FO’s (- furloughs) contributing a percent-and-a-half of our wages over the past twelve years, we have given our APA leadership ~ $27,000 per CA and ~ $16,000 per FO in union dues, while allowing our APA leaders to "speak for us." What message have they delivered and what is our return on this trusted investment? Isn’t it fair to ask, are they doing a good job? How much more job security, leverage, career progression and increased buying power do each of us have today than we did in the year 2000? Looking back at our investment in APA and more importantly, looking ahead, where have they led us and where are they taking us now by merging our careers with a weaker, poorly run and more dysfunctional US Air? With twenty or more years “invested” in our own American Airlines careers, isn’t it time for each of us to disconnect the controls and start demanding better results?
In late 2000, just prior to 9-11, we were encouraged to turn down a 22% pay raise because it was not quite “industry leading” enough to dwarf the pay increases United and Delta had just received. Several months later, still in the shadows of the World Trade Center attacks, we took a 23% pay decrease in order to prevent going into bankruptcy and losing our pensions. When the betrayals of “pull together – win together” became public, we angrily voted in new APA leadership that once again promised us “an industry leading contract.” Unfortunately, these bold promises were followed up with admonitions to “do your job and nobody else’s!” Next came the infamously ill-conceived "not really sick - sick-out" and a year-long defamation of character promotion aimed recklessly at our own heads with billboards in DFW, ORD and MIA (costing $7,000 a month each) telling our customers that “American Airlines doesn’t really care about you!” Brilliant! Meanwhile, our nation was involved in two wars, the economy was collapsing, people were losing their jobs in droves, oil prices were quadrupling, our competitors had cut their expenses in half, unemployment remained above 8%, national debt sky-rocked, while our APA union leaders "spoke for us" by advertising on billboards that – “We suck and we want top dollar for doing it!”
Just when it appeared that there were a few rays of sunshine headed our way with new leadership at APA and the Flight Department, along with massive aircraft orders in place, the frustrations of conflict, gloom and uncertainty continued. When negotiations broke down over Thanksgiving of 2011 and management filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, our APA leaders said, “It’s not our fault, we are working to achieve an industry leading contract for our members!” Even then, as troubling as this unwelcome bankruptcy news first appeared, early indications were that finally the clouds had burst and we would be forced to focus our combined energies on survival and trying to grow American Airlines. Unfortunately, our APA leaders are once again being misguided by the “smartest guys in the room, hard-liners” who are demanding "their pound of flesh" and a vote of “no confidence” rather than facing the financial realities of a survive-or-die situation in a deeply depressed world economy.
While none of us likes hearing the harsh realities of surviving and emerging from bankruptcy, we are choosing to ignore an AA growth plan to instead pursue the purity of wedding night promises from a severely distressed and dysfunctional US Air. Shotgun marriages rarely work; mating a wounded duck with a flailing penguin will not produce a soaring eagle. Short term promises will not change long term realities. A (likely) future AA merger will work best when we are financially able to choose a worthy partner on our own terms. Risking our career investments at AA with the fate of a failing US Air, while encouraging us to remain silent is like pulling the GPWS circuit breaker; it does nothing to eliminate the dangerous terrain ahead. If we truly want an “industry leading contract,” we need to prosper in the real world of our difficult economic environment by beating the competition and providing the world class service that our customers and fellow employees deserve. Cash flow is the life blood of any business and we have been bleeding out for many years. Unproductive duty rigs, unwavering objections to preferential bidding and conflict guarantees at the expense of the 90% who are hauling the lumber is simply counter-productive and punishes the majority of outstanding employees who work for a living.

Creating fear and fomenting anger through the sophistry of a doomsday scenario where management "shreds our contract by eliminating all duty rigs, sick benefits, rampant furloughs” and other imagined horrors is irresponsible, self-serving and dishonest. What proof do you have that US Air’s management team is better than ours? For the most part, the AA “villains of the past” are gone; the enemy is our competition. Looking back, how have our "industry leading" scope protections worked-out for our current and furloughed AA pilots, with American Eagle flying over 1,400 daily flights (just 600 fewer than AA)? How has SUP CC worked out for the majority of our pilots and the financial well-being of our airline? What are the unintended consequences of fighting amongst ourselves over every issue that threatens our ability function efficiently and operate profitably? What’s more important to our pilots, the socialistic argument of fairness, spreading the wealth and “occupying union clout” or one of capitalism where a thriving, prosperous company makes all of us wealthier, more secure and truly ... industry leading?
Short term relief from management’s 1113C will not resolve our long term financial problems. Failure to increase productivity, encourage teamwork, make profits and share rewards is a recipe for continued mediocrity and certain long term failure. Decade long efforts to foment anger with constant infighting between APA and AA management are destroying our airline, aiding and abetting our enemies and have put us on the brink of financial collapse. APA leadership is now spending considerable energy vilifying management’s high priced “Lorenzo lawyers” and Eastern’s failure while ignoring any union culpability and our own well paid legal assassins. Instead of working to grow our company we are now paying outside lawyers insane amounts of money to encourage a back-door merger with a “big hat – no cattle” US Air. These same lawyers are getting very rich advising us to sue our own company and fight them for every dime, while filling their own pockets with large amounts of our hard earned dollars. Either way, lawyers on both sides will walk away from the wreckage, extremely wealthy and unscathed.
We will win the future and secure our professional careers by controlling our emotions, analyzing the situation and taking the proper action. We must provide better service at a competitive price than our competition or we will lose the battle. As pilots, we must think of ourselves as small business owners and earn our customers business on each and every flight. Like most other pilots at American Airlines, I am making less today than I was twelve years ago. We are about to lose much of our retirement and we are all now working for a bankrupt carrier; whatever we've been doing is not working and it is time for new tactics and better results. While this letter takes aim at APA, it should not be mistaken as a ringing endorsement for AA management, it isn't - it's about debt, mathematics, gravity and leadership. Clearly, mistakes have been made on both sides, economic challenges have conspired against us and yet none of that matters now. Going forward, if American Airlines loses – we all lose. Leadership is tough and it's much easier to sit on the sidelines and second guess; I'm not that person and I understand that "these are the times that try men's souls," but we must all do better. Both sides must work to rebuild trust and change the culture if we are to succeed. If American Airlines fails, historians will rightfully proclaim that we ignored our instruments, turned our backs on common sense, stalled a perfectly good airline and foolishly overflew repeated opportunities to safely and securely reach our destination.
I don’t care about the past two hundred million dollars’ worth of APA union dues and I know that much of that money has been well spent on valuable projects that enhance safety and enrich pilot lives. Nor do I care about past PUP payouts that poisoned our spirit; at this point all of that selfishness is runway behind us. All I’m concerned with now, and believe the majority of our pilots care about, is winning the future. There are certainly many disagreeable elements within management's 1113C proposal, but a short-sighted merger with US Air is a reckless diversion into a slippery runway that will end poorly. Prosperity and a future merger are alive through growth, but will perish along with the likes of Eastern, Pan Am and others if we continue to fight amongst ourselves. Whoop-Whoop! Pull-Up! Stop the madness of the past, set egos aside, negotiate a win-win agreement, rebuild trust and let’s concentrate our energies on the important business of beating the competition and growing American Airlines!

I purposely left his name off.


HotMamaPilot
05-09-2012, 03:40 AM
Do you all have FQS' at AA? Some of it sounds a little like management. Just my opinion.

eaglefly
05-09-2012, 04:09 AM
Do you all have FQS' at AA? Some of it sounds a little like management. Just my opinion.

From my understanding it's a senior captain who believes he'll make out better without the U merger. He obviously couldn't care less about the junior half (like Tomahawk). It's a fact there are an extreme minority of AA pilots who want a scenario that milks their last 5-10 years out without the worry of the possible reduction of what THEY have (seniority/equipment) in a U merger. This extreme minority of pilots thinks AMR's plan works out better for them by ensuring the bottom 50% pay the price, by essentially becoming the doormats they can wipe their feet on to stay clean just long enough to make retirement.

The overwhelming majority of AA pilots believe what apparently all the analysts believe and that is that a U merger is better then AMR's stand alone plan and the 1113 as demanded leaves no career for most anyway.


Sliceback
05-09-2012, 06:07 AM
This is pretty funny. An "open" letter, unsigned, that only exists on APC, posted by T58.

How about telling the world where the letter was written/posted/printed?

Tomahawk58
05-09-2012, 06:19 AM
This is pretty funny. An "open" letter, unsigned, that only exists on APC, posted by T58.

How about telling the world where the letter was written/posted/printed?

Do you have thoughts on the content or would you think differently if the person who penned the article name was there?

What are your thoughts on the merits of his position?

Golden Bear
05-09-2012, 06:32 AM
I'm fairly certain it is by definition not an open letter if not signed.

Kinda loses rhetorical impact if the writer does not stake his reputation on the content being proposed. You could have written it yourself, and then just claimed it came from someone else. That would undermine the content incredibly.

So, yes: it is different since it is unsigned.

Tomahawk58
05-09-2012, 08:18 AM
I'm fairly certain it is by definition not an open letter if not signed.

Kinda loses rhetorical impact if the writer does not stake his reputation on the content being proposed. You could have written it yourself, and then just claimed it came from someone else. That would undermine the content incredibly.

So, yes: it is different since it is unsigned.

Here you go:


APA Leadership and Fellow AA Pilots,



As momentum mounts and the groundswell of support continues toward a “no confidence vote in AMR management,” I’d like to offer another pilot’s perspective. Please delete or disregard my attached letter if you are too busy or uninterested in the internal debate that appears all but settled amongst our pilots. I respectfully appreciate both sides of the argument and sincerely hope that the majority is right, that my instincts are wrong and that a merger with US Air (at this time) is not simply “fool’s gold.”



I certainly don’t pretend to own a crystal ball or have access to deeper insights than those responsible for leading, but I care too much to simply “pay my dues and hope for the best.” Destiny is a choice … leadership requires vision, character, courage, communication and action. Please choose wisely.*



I have complete confidence in the pilots of American Airlines.



Respectfully and All the Best!

Captain Michael Tetrick

AA Pilot // APA Member

*

eaglefly
05-09-2012, 08:32 AM
I wish I was as eloquent as this captain about the trouble with the APA, but he says it best:

Whoop-Whoop! Pull-Up!
An Open Letter to APA Leadership and fellow AA Pilots
What kind of return can you expect from a $200 million dollar investment? Even in a down economy, a couple hundred million dollar investments with modest appreciation should have increased value, right? With roughly 4,000 CA’s and 6,000 FO’s (- furloughs) contributing a percent-and-a-half of our wages over the past twelve years, we have given our APA leadership ~ $27,000 per CA and ~ $16,000 per FO in union dues, while allowing our APA leaders to "speak for us." What message have they delivered and what is our return on this trusted investment? Isn’t it fair to ask, are they doing a good job? How much more job security, leverage, career progression and increased buying power do each of us have today than we did in the year 2000?

Interesting how this rant completely leaves out the past "investment" (a measely 1.8 billion dollars) the pilots gave to AMR 8 years ago. Come to think of it, it also leaves out the future investment of the wholesale gutting of the current CBA well BEYOND the rest of the industry. Instead, it focuses on why the APA coudn't force AMR to do anything due to being hamgstrung by a corporate sympathetic NMB.

Looking back at our investment in APA and more importantly, looking ahead, where have they led us and where are they taking us now by merging our careers with a weaker, poorly run and more dysfunctional US Air? With twenty or more years “invested” in our own American Airlines careers, isn’t it time for each of us to disconnect the controls and start demanding better results?

Considering the "results" of what the pilots of AA have gotten so far, I think that FINALLY, they HAVE the capability to do something. Yes, U is weak AS IS, but so is AA. TOGETHER, IT is much stronger.

In late 2000, just prior to 9-11, we were encouraged to turn down a 22% pay raise because it was not quite “industry leading” enough to dwarf the pay increases United and Delta had just received. Several months later, still in the shadows of the World Trade Center attacks, we took a 23% pay decrease in order to prevent going into bankruptcy and losing our pensions. When the betrayals of “pull together – win together” became public, we angrily voted in new APA leadership that once again promised us “an industry leading contract.” Unfortunately, these bold promises were followed up with admonitions to “do your job and nobody else’s!” Next came the infamously ill-conceived "not really sick - sick-out" and a year-long defamation of character promotion aimed recklessly at our own heads with billboards in DFW, ORD and MIA (costing $7,000 a month each) telling our customers that “American Airlines doesn’t really care about you!” Brilliant! Meanwhile, our nation was involved in two wars, the economy was collapsing, people were losing their jobs in droves, oil prices were quadrupling, our competitors had cut their expenses in half, unemployment remained above 8%, national debt sky-rocked, while our APA union leaders "spoke for us" by advertising on billboards that – “We suck and we want top dollar for doing it!”

Dysfunction (and betrayal) breed dysfuction (and betrayal).

Just when it appeared that there were a few rays of sunshine headed our way with new leadership at APA and the Flight Department, along with massive aircraft orders in place, the frustrations of conflict, gloom and uncertainty continued. When negotiations broke down over Thanksgiving of 2011 and management filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, our APA leaders said, “It’s not our fault, we are working to achieve an industry leading contract for our members!” Even then, as troubling as this unwelcome bankruptcy news first appeared, early indications were that finally the clouds had burst and we would be forced to focus our combined energies on survival and trying to grow American Airlines. Unfortunately, our APA leaders are once again being misguided by the “smartest guys in the room, hard-liners” who are demanding "their pound of flesh" and a vote of “no confidence” rather than facing the financial realities of a survive-or-die situation in a deeply depressed world economy.

He fails to accept that Chapter 11 was planned all along and even Horton initially stated the pilots negotiation state had nothing to do with it. First doubling-down and now tripling-down on sacrifical demands by AA pilots has only forced the herd into the first sanctuary they can find. If AMR's 1113 had been more "industry standard", instead of an all-out decimation of the majority of our careers, we wouldn't be where we are right now. I don't see that as the APA's fault, but apparently he does. The "no confidence" vote simply mimicks what virtually every analyst is also saying. It seems the only ones who believe the current "corner-post" cocktail with the scortched earth chaser is the current AMR managment and a minority of sympathizers.

While none of us likes hearing the harsh realities of surviving and emerging from bankruptcy, we are choosing to ignore an AA growth plan to instead pursue the purity of wedding night promises from a severely distressed and dysfunctional US Air.

AA growth plan ?

I don't see that at all. In fact, I see significant contraction as large RJ's flown by others take the majority of our domestic ops and an open-ended code-sharing plan that allows for the wholesale elimination of anything else on a whim. The PROMISE of a small increase in International ops won't make up for the massive losses elsewhere. The curret orders through 2017 are for replacement only and the options can go anywhere else at a later time. In fact, I understand even the current "orders" for the Airbuses aren't firm and thus can change.

How have the trust and promises from this direction paid off so far for AA pilots ?

Oh, that's right.............it's the APA's fault. :cool:


Shotgun marriages rarely work; mating a wounded duck with a flailing penguin will not produce a soaring eagle.

The only "soaring eagle" in the stand-alone plan looks like it will be AMERICAN EAGLE.

Short term promises will not change long term realities.

Complaining about "promises" (actually failed promises) in that direction vs. elsewhere ?

YGBFSM !

A (likely) future AA merger will work best when we are financially able to choose a worthy partner on our own terms.

TOTALLY disagree here. In that case, would the employees SUDDENLY be valued and their interests considered by the same group looking to eviscerate them to the current degree they want or would history repeat itself for the umpteenth time ?

[must be the Jet Blue promises at work here]

Risking our career investments at AA with the fate of a failing US Air, while encouraging us to remain silent is like pulling the GPWS circuit breaker; it does nothing to eliminate the dangerous terrain ahead. If we truly want an “industry leading contract,” we need to prosper in the real world of our difficult economic environment by beating the competition and providing the world class service that our customers and fellow employees deserve.

As it stands, most don't believe they will have a career to risk (well perhaps the top 20% or so will ;)). The idea that the last 10 years of treatment here will result in "world class service" is laughable IMHO. You simply cannot abuse people to this degree for this length of time and expaect that. If you ask me, they're planning on creating a luxury resort, but refuse to accept that it won't prosper with damaged materials (hopelessly demoralized labor).

Cash flow is the life blood of any business and we have been bleeding out for many years.

Last I heard, the 4+ BILLION at C11 filing has blossomed to almost 5 BILLION !!! :eek:

Unproductive duty rigs, unwavering objections to preferential bidding and conflict guarantees at the expense of the 90% who are hauling the lumber is simply counter-productive and punishes the majority of outstanding employees who work for a living.

I think VERY few think that major change is unneccessary. It's the degree of change that's the problem. Perhaps if AMR COULD convince us of a future, we'd be listening more closely. Instead, all that's heard is the grinding of the knife as it's being sharpened ever more.

Creating fear and fomenting anger through the sophistry of a doomsday scenario where management "shreds our contract by eliminating all duty rigs, sick benefits, rampant furloughs” and other imagined horrors is irresponsible, self-serving and dishonest.

He obviously hasn't read the 1113 demands and if he has, clearly doesn't comprehend its ramifications (or chooses not to). I say "demands" because apparently management has so far shown zero interest in bargaining in good faith.

What proof do you have that US Air’s management team is better than ours?

What proof do we have of the past not repeating itself in the future, like it has both in the past and present ?

For the most part, the AA “villains of the past” are gone;

Once again, YGBFSM !!!

the enemy is our competition. Looking back, how have our "industry leading" scope protections worked-out for our current and furloughed AA pilots, with American Eagle flying over 1,400 daily flights (just 600 fewer than AA)? How has SUP CC worked out for the majority of our pilots and the financial well-being of our airline? What are the unintended consequences of fighting amongst ourselves over every issue that threatens our ability function efficiently and operate profitably? What’s more important to our pilots, the socialistic argument of fairness, spreading the wealth and “occupying union clout” or one of capitalism where a thriving, prosperous company makes all of us wealthier, more secure and truly ... industry leading?

That's what happens when one side has sympathy from governmental chums. It's also what happens when one side takes advantage of "spirit and intent" and adopts an "end run" philosophy repeatedly. He fails to mention that the "7300 floor" would have made a HUGE difference.

Short term relief from management’s 1113C will not resolve our long term financial problems. Failure to increase productivity, encourage teamwork, make profits and share rewards is a recipe for continued mediocrity and certain long term failure. Decade long efforts to foment anger with constant infighting between APA and AA management are destroying our airline, aiding and abetting our enemies and have put us on the brink of financial collapse. APA leadership is now spending considerable energy vilifying management’s high priced “Lorenzo lawyers” and Eastern’s failure while ignoring any union culpability and our own well paid legal assassins. Instead of working to grow our company we are now paying outside lawyers insane amounts of money to encourage a back-door merger with a “big hat – no cattle” US Air. These same lawyers are getting very rich advising us to sue our own company and fight them for every dime, while filling their own pockets with large amounts of our hard earned dollars. Either way, lawyers on both sides will walk away from the wreckage, extremely wealthy and unscathed.

Long-term imposition of the 1113 will destroy what chance we have left. To increase teamwork, there has to a belief that there IS A TEAM and right now there is no such belief. Apparently his solution to end the "infighting and anger" are for plots to just sit quietly hat (little hat) in hand and hope for the best from a source with a long and consistant history of...............well, need I say more ?

We will win the future and secure our professional careers by controlling our emotions, analyzing the situation and taking the proper action. We must provide better service at a competitive price than our competition or we will lose the battle. As pilots, we must think of ourselves as small business owners and earn our customers business on each and every flight. Like most other pilots at American Airlines, I am making less today than I was twelve years ago. We are about to lose much of our retirement and we are all now working for a bankrupt carrier; whatever we've been doing is not working and it is time for new tactics and better results. While this letter takes aim at APA, it should not be mistaken as a ringing endorsement for AA management, it isn't - it's about debt, mathematics, gravity and leadership.

ALL the above require two to tango and as of now, no one has even shown up to dance.

Clearly, mistakes have been made on both sides, economic challenges have conspired against us and yet none of that matters now. Going forward, if American Airlines loses – we all lose. Leadership is tough and it's much easier to sit on the sidelines and second guess; I'm not that person and I understand that "these are the times that try men's souls," but we must all do better. Both sides must work to rebuild trust and change the culture if we are to succeed. If American Airlines fails, historians will rightfully proclaim that we ignored our instruments, turned our backs on common sense, stalled a perfectly good airline and foolishly overflew repeated opportunities to safely and securely reach our destination.
I don’t care about the past two hundred million dollars’ worth of APA union dues and I know that much of that money has been well spent on valuable projects that enhance safety and enrich pilot lives. Nor do I care about past PUP payouts that poisoned our spirit; at this point all of that selfishness is runway behind us. All I’m concerned with now, and believe the majority of our pilots care about, is winning the future.

In order to "win" in the future, there HAS TO BE A FUTURE. An 1113 that allows the virtual elimination and transfer of the majority of our domestic network doesn't allow for a future.

There are certainly many disagreeable elements within management's 1113C proposal, but a short-sighted merger with US Air is a reckless diversion into a slippery runway that will end poorly. Prosperity and a future merger are alive through growth, but will perish along with the likes of Eastern, Pan Am and others if we continue to fight amongst ourselves. Whoop-Whoop! Pull-Up! Stop the madness of the past, set egos aside, negotiate a win-win agreement, rebuild trust and let’s concentrate our energies on the important business of beating the competition and growing American Airlines!


He sure comes to a lot of certainties. One being that the current 1113 is acceptable for AA pilots and the other being that a merger with U is CERTAIN to fail. Most of us would LOVE for AMERICAN AIRLINES to grow, but the 1113 is more of a roadmap to SHRINK American Airlines. It provides for SOME replacement at AA, but no iron-clad assurances of growth, just smoky insuations. The major GROWTH is going to be among supporting regionals and code-shares like Jet Blue, Alaska and Eagle.

If you ask me, the REAL plan is AA simply becoming one of many 'One World' operators and AA will be MUCH smaller. The goal then is to build not AA, but the 'One World' network. Unfortunately to do that successfully (and set up a domestic whipsaw model), it will require the "stand-alone" plan and a U merger NOW (with OTHERS in control) messes that all up. In essence, it appears clear to me that what is really about to happen is the final sacrifice of AA pilots for the good of a global network that is primarily for the benefit of others. If AA pilots were truly part of the future, AMR would be more open to scope that allows pilots on the APA list first crack at flying currently flown by them, regardless of where that future "replacement/expansion" jet is placed. As it stands now, all that's desired is simply a BLANK CHECK and a career dying a slow death is still a death.

Emotion ?

I saw as much of it in this letter then in anything else I've seen or read. Sounds like he's panicking at the though 85% of his fellow pilots see this situation opposite of what he does and yes, that can be a helpless feeling.

eaglefly
05-09-2012, 08:42 AM
Here you go:


APA Leadership and Fellow AA Pilots,



As momentum mounts and the groundswell of support continues toward a “no confidence vote in AMR management,” I’d like to offer another pilot’s perspective. Please delete or disregard my attached letter if you are too busy or uninterested in the internal debate that appears all but settled amongst our pilots. I respectfully appreciate both sides of the argument and sincerely hope that the majority is right, that my instincts are wrong and that a merger with US Air (at this time) is not simply “fool’s gold.”



I certainly don’t pretend to own a crystal ball or have access to deeper insights than those responsible for leading, but I care too much to simply “pay my dues and hope for the best.” Destiny is a choice … leadership requires vision, character, courage, communication and action. Please choose wisely.*



I have complete confidence in the pilots of American Airlines.



Respectfully and All the Best!

Captain Michael Tetrick

AA Pilot // APA Member

*

With momentum mounting will AMR come to its senses and offer something that provides hope for a future ?

I certainly don't know, but as I stated months ago, the longer this insanity (the currently demanded 1113) continues, the greater the chance of the train flying off the rails. I don't know what that will look like, but it will be bad for all of us, I'm sure. The latest press release describing ORD being handed off to others to fly large RJ's decimating that percentage of pilots there hasn't helped.

BTW, went through ORD last week and in terminal G (Eagle) I noticed it doesn't say "American Eagle" at any of the gates/counters. It has the "bird" logo of AA/Eagle with a little "One World" emblem and that's all. It's CLEAR where this is going (and where managment wants to take it.......apparently without most of us) and as it stands now, AA pilots will end up a shadow of their former selves UNLESS they do something drastic. Since AMR hasn't been willing to offer them a reasonable future so far, it appears the U "lifeboat" is all that's left (undesirable as it may be).

DASH8EE
05-09-2012, 10:39 AM
The only "soaring eagle" in the stand-alone plan looks like it will be AMERICAN EAGLE.






Disagree. Eagle is done for. You forget... AMR is out sourcing feed as well in their stand alone plan.

DASH8EE
05-09-2012, 10:42 AM
With momentum mounting will AMR come to its senses and offer something that provides hope for a future ?

I certainly don't know, but as I stated months ago, the longer this insanity (the currently demanded 1113) continues, the greater the chance of the train flying off the rails. I don't know what that will look like, but it will be bad for all of us, I'm sure. The latest press release describing ORD being handed off to others to fly large RJ's decimating that percentage of pilots there hasn't helped.

BTW, went through ORD last week and in terminal G (Eagle) I noticed it doesn't say "American Eagle" at any of the gates/counters. It has the "bird" logo of AA/Eagle with a little "One World" emblem and that's all. It's CLEAR where this is going (and where managment wants to take it.......apparently without most of us) and as it stands now, AA pilots will end up a shadow of their former selves UNLESS they do something drastic. Since AMR hasn't been willing to offer them a reasonable future so far, it appears the U "lifeboat" is all that's left (undesirable as it may be).

So maybe you do understand. It will not be AMERICAN EAGLE that grows.

eaglefly
05-09-2012, 11:03 AM
It matters little to AA pilots who flies SNB's if it's not them. Eagle (the current carrier) is by no means finished and may or may not be larger then current. Yes, a lot of the hundreds of new SNB jets might be flown by others, but AE could still expand with turboprops and current-sized 64-seat CRJ-700's.

DASH8EE
05-09-2012, 11:55 AM
It matters little to AA pilots who flies SNB's if it's not them.

It seems to me that an outside feeder (not owned by AMR) would be a greater threat to AA jobs and to the financial strength of AMR. Also as a AA pilot I would be concerned with the quality of feed that was being offered to the customers that fly with my company. After all the quality of the feed given greatly represents the mainline product as a whole.

I am not saying Eagle is a great product. With that said I think a wholly owned regional has greater potential to provide a better experience for the customer than an outsourced regional.

Why would an AA pilot not care about these type of matters? After all these issues do effect his/her career and company.

MayDaze
05-09-2012, 12:11 PM
For some reason I read that whole letter in the voice of Hank Hill from King of the Hill. The poor guy probably never realized that eaglefly would tear the whole thing apart. Friends don't let friends drink and post on APC.

aa73
05-09-2012, 02:14 PM
That was not written by a senior AA captain. It's actually written by a relatively junior AA F/O whom I know pretty well and a class act through and through.

Tomahawk58
05-09-2012, 05:47 PM
Interesting how this rant completely leaves out the past "investment" (a measely 1.8 billion dollars) the pilots gave to AMR 8 years ago. Come to think of it, it also leaves out the future investment of the wholesale gutting of the current CBA well BEYOND the rest of the industry. Instead, it focuses on why the APA coudn't force AMR to do anything due to being hamgstrung by a corporate sympathetic NMB.



Considering the "results" of what the pilots of AA have gotten so far, I think that FINALLY, they HAVE the capability to do something. Yes, U is weak AS IS, but so is AA. TOGETHER, IT is much stronger.



Dysfunction (and betrayal) breed dysfuction (and betrayal).



He fails to accept that Chapter 11 was planned all along and even Horton initially stated the pilots negotiation state had nothing to do with it. First doubling-down and now tripling-down on sacrifical demands by AA pilots has only forced the herd into the first sanctuary they can find. If AMR's 1113 had been more "industry standard", instead of an all-out decimation of the majority of our careers, we wouldn't be where we are right now. I don't see that as the APA's fault, but apparently he does. The "no confidence" vote simply mimicks what virtually every analyst is also saying. It seems the only ones who believe the current "corner-post" cocktail with the scortched earth chaser is the current AMR managment and a minority of sympathizers.



AA growth plan ?

I don't see that at all. In fact, I see significant contraction as large RJ's flown by others take the majority of our domestic ops and an open-ended code-sharing plan that allows for the wholesale elimination of anything else on a whim. The PROMISE of a small increase in International ops won't make up for the massive losses elsewhere. The curret orders through 2017 are for replacement only and the options can go anywhere else at a later time. In fact, I understand even the current "orders" for the Airbuses aren't firm and thus can change.

How have the trust and promises from this direction paid off so far for AA pilots ?

Oh, that's right.............it's the APA's fault. :cool:




The only "soaring eagle" in the stand-alone plan looks like it will be AMERICAN EAGLE.



Complaining about "promises" (actually failed promises) in that direction vs. elsewhere ?

YGBFSM !



TOTALLY disagree here. In that case, would the employees SUDDENLY be valued and their interests considered by the same group looking to eviscerate them to the current degree they want or would history repeat itself for the umpteenth time ?

[must be the Jet Blue promises at work here]



As it stands, most don't believe they will have a career to risk (well perhaps the top 20% or so will ;)). The idea that the last 10 years of treatment here will result in "world class service" is laughable IMHO. You simply cannot abuse people to this degree for this length of time and expaect that. If you ask me, they're planning on creating a luxury resort, but refuse to accept that it won't prosper with damaged materials (hopelessly demoralized labor).



Last I heard, the 4+ BILLION at C11 filing has blossomed to almost 5 BILLION !!! :eek:



I think VERY few think that major change is unneccessary. It's the degree of change that's the problem. Perhaps if AMR COULD convince us of a future, we'd be listening more closely. Instead, all that's heard is the grinding of the knife as it's being sharpened ever more.



He obviously hasn't read the 1113 demands and if he has, clearly doesn't comprehend its ramifications (or chooses not to). I say "demands" because apparently management has so far shown zero interest in bargaining in good faith.



What proof do we have of the past not repeating itself in the future, like it has both in the past and present ?



Once again, YGBFSM !!!



That's what happens when one side has sympathy from governmental chums. It's also what happens when one side takes advantage of "spirit and intent" and adopts an "end run" philosophy repeatedly. He fails to mention that the "7300 floor" would have made a HUGE difference.



Long-term imposition of the 1113 will destroy what chance we have left. To increase teamwork, there has to a belief that there IS A TEAM and right now there is no such belief. Apparently his solution to end the "infighting and anger" are for plots to just sit quietly hat (little hat) in hand and hope for the best from a source with a long and consistant history of...............well, need I say more ?



ALL the above require two to tango and as of now, no one has even shown up to dance.



In order to "win" in the future, there HAS TO BE A FUTURE. An 1113 that allows the virtual elimination and transfer of the majority of our domestic network doesn't allow for a future.



He sure comes to a lot of certainties. One being that the current 1113 is acceptable for AA pilots and the other being that a merger with U is CERTAIN to fail. Most of us would LOVE for AMERICAN AIRLINES to grow, but the 1113 is more of a roadmap to SHRINK American Airlines. It provides for SOME replacement at AA, but no iron-clad assurances of growth, just smoky insuations. The major GROWTH is going to be among supporting regionals and code-shares like Jet Blue, Alaska and Eagle.

If you ask me, the REAL plan is AA simply becoming one of many 'One World' operators and AA will be MUCH smaller. The goal then is to build not AA, but the 'One World' network. Unfortunately to do that successfully (and set up a domestic whipsaw model), it will require the "stand-alone" plan and a U merger NOW (with OTHERS in control) messes that all up. In essence, it appears clear to me that what is really about to happen is the final sacrifice of AA pilots for the good of a global network that is primarily for the benefit of others. If AA pilots were truly part of the future, AMR would be more open to scope that allows pilots on the APA list first crack at flying currently flown by them, regardless of where that future "replacement/expansion" jet is placed. As it stands now, all that's desired is simply a BLANK CHECK and a career dying a slow death is still a death.

Emotion ?

I saw as much of it in this letter then in anything else I've seen or read. Sounds like he's panicking at the though 85% of his fellow pilots see this situation opposite of what he does and yes, that can be a helpless feeling.

Eaglefly-

Let me ask you, have you personally met any of AA's leadership? If so who and what was your interaction with them?

Have you met Mr Parker and the US leadership team? If so, what was you interaction with them?

You seem intent on bashing any opinion you don't agree with. Have you or anyone in the APA leadership been given final contract language by Mr Parler and team that's publishable, and shows irrefutably that the promises made in the press will extend to all employees at AA and US?

So let's cut to the chase, if you don't want to be at AA, please leave. I can bet you others would be more than happy to work for a great airline such as ours.

Why stay at a company and be bitter while constantly putting it down publicly?

eaglefly
05-09-2012, 06:30 PM
Eaglefly-

Let me ask you, have you personally met any of AA's leadership? If so who and what was your interaction with them?

Have you met Mr Parker and the US leadership team? If so, what was you interaction with them?

Never met the top leadership of either. I can read though. I read the 1113 term sheet and the U agreement, have evaluated most of the press statements and are aware of the players brought onboard (see Frank Lorenzo). If you don't like my choices based on that, I'm sorry.

You seem intent on bashing any opinion you don't agree with. Have you or anyone in the APA leadership been given final contract language by Mr Parler and team that's publishable, and shows irrefutably that the promises made in the press will extend to all employees at AA and US?

You seem intent on bashing any opinion you disagree with as well, Mr. Kettle. I trust my union far more then those intent on forcing the 1113 on me.

'Nuff said............:cool:

So let's cut to the chase, if you don't want to be at AA, please leave. I can bet you others would be more than happy to work for a great airline such as ours.

Why stay at a company and be bitter while constantly putting it down publicly?

Your presumptuousness is staggering. You talk like YOU ARE AA and have the right to request those you disagree with resign. I'm as "pro AA" as you are (maybe more). I want the best for AA and its employees and for you to claim I'm "putting down AA" I find offensive, conceited and obnoxious and your perceptions are NOT the definition of reality. I'm an advocate FOR the interests of those who make AA what it is and the majority apparently don't feel as you do. We all want a future, just believe that future is (at least presently) more solvent going in another direction and am expressing my personal opinion on where I believe that to be. I'd love to see things change here, but as time goes on, I only see it getting worse. I'm sorry if the reality of most as demonstrated by the no confidence petition doesn't jibe with your experiences or beliefs.

Let's cut to the chase. Few want you here and your motives for being here are suspect in the extreme. You've done nothing but instigate conflict with anti-pilot, anti-union inflammatory rhetoric since you arrived and apparently prefer your propaganda goes unchallenged. It's ironic you demand the right to express your opinion freely, yet also demand those who differ quit. If you don't like opposing opinions about the best course for our future, please leave.

You won't be missed. ;)

I assume you won't be going to any of the no confidence rally's this week, eh ?

Dashdog
05-10-2012, 03:48 AM
I hope the author of this letter is active in the union. It's disingenuous to blast your union for being corrupt and worthless while sitting back and not participating. If you don't like the direction of your union, make an effort to change it. A Jerry Macquire 'open letter' is pretty useless IMO.
Why does he refer to US Air as "failing". Seems like they are doing ok to me, especially compared to his own airline.

Tomahawk58
05-10-2012, 08:13 AM
No, I will not be going to the "rally" because I do have confidence in the AA leadership. Here is the Airline I signed on with and here is where my loyalty remains! Convenience and expediency seem to be the pervue of the "entitled" group

aa73
05-10-2012, 08:52 AM
My bad, the letter is not written by a friend of mine. Wrong letter. Don't know who wrote this one.

Sliceback
05-10-2012, 06:50 PM
I hope the author of this letter is active in the union. It's disingenuous to blast your union for being corrupt and worthless while sitting back and not participating. If you don't like the direction of your union, make an effort to change it. A Jerry Macquire 'open letter' is pretty useless IMO.
Why does he refer to US Air as "failing". Seems like they are doing ok to me, especially compared to his own airline.


Active in the union? Not at the national level. Local level is unknown.

Since he's gone outside the internal debate process and published a public letter questioning the union's official position I doubt he's active in the union at the local level.

Rider850
05-11-2012, 04:17 AM
My bad, the letter is not written by a friend of mine. Wrong letter. Don't know who wrote this one.

Good. You scared me for a moment. I see no plan in the letter. Show me where it is. Whomever has trust in the current AMR management team is out to lunch. Not that USAIR is much better. I am a 2000 hire just like AA73. stapled and furloughed for over a decade and now a 2001 hire. Not that much of that will change except under another integration probably a 2004 hire or worse and stapled,again.
I will never get back to work with the AMR plan. I will be continually be outsourced. With Parker I have a slim chance of getting back and flying a 100 seater,maybe. Not my dream job. But the dream is gone.

eaglefly
05-11-2012, 07:37 AM
Good. You scared me for a moment. I see no plan in the letter. Show me where it is. Whomever has trust in the current AMR management team is out to lunch. Not that USAIR is much better. I am a 2000 hire just like AA73. stapled and furloughed for over a decade and now a 2001 hire. Not that much of that will change except under another integration probably a 2004 hire or worse and stapled,again.
I will never get back to work with the AMR plan. I will be continually be outsourced. With Parker I have a slim chance of getting back and flying a 100 seater,maybe. Not my dream job. But the dream is gone.

So far, I haven't been given anything with which to be confident about regarding our future. I sincerely hope that changes as a U merger is NOT my first choice. The scope provisions alone of the 1113 look to be simply something that assures the melting of AA and thus the majority of our careers. On that basis alone, I could never support any plan that advocates that.

Sliceback
05-11-2012, 01:08 PM
Looks like Horton's deserting T58 and considering selling AA.

T58 - since when does a desire to have AA survive include allegiance to specific AA management teams? If the AMR BOD decides to get rid of this mgt team, like it did with Carty, are you going to leave with them? Matter of fact, if you are so aligned with whomever is running AA why didn't you leave when Carty left? You've had 5 or 6 guys run AA during your career. What makes Horton so much more special than the next guy to run AA?

I think the majority want AA to survive but don't think a weaker AA is a better solution. And the majority has NO interest in supporting Horton at the expense of our contract or even more importantly to the detriment of the long term success of AA.

Besides AA mgt could you provide us any industry supporters of AA mgt's operational plan? Exactly, that's the problem we're facing. While Parker's plan appears to have some support AA's plan is actually ridiculed by analysts.

Is Parker some sort of nirvana? Of course not. But given a choice the majority of the pilots would prefer door #2, even if it's almost sight unseen. That's hardly a ringing endorsement of the current management.

It's like telling your wife, "I don't care who walks through the door, I'm leaving with her."

Tomahawk58
05-11-2012, 01:16 PM
Looks like Horton's deserting T58 and considering selling AA.

T58 - since when does a desire to have AA survive include allegiance to specific AA management teams? If the AMR BOD decides to get rid of this mgt team, like it did with Carty, are you going to leave with them? Matter of fact, if you are so aligned with whomever is running AA why didn't you leave when Carty left? You've had 5 or 6 guys run AA during your career. What makes Horton so much more special than the next guy to run AA?

I think the majority want AA to survive but don't think a weaker AA is a better solution. And the majority has NO interest in supporting Horton at the expense of our contract or even more importantly to the detriment of the long term success of AA.

Besides AA mgt could you provide us any industry supporters of AA mgt's operational plan? Exactly, that's the problem we're facing. While Parker's plan appears to have some support AA's plan is actually ridiculed by analysts.

Is Parker some sort of nirvana? Of course not. But given a choice the majority of the pilots would prefer door #2, even if it's almost sight unseen. That's hardly a ringing endorsement of the current management.

It's like telling your wife, "I don't care who walks through the door, I'm leaving with her."

We might want to put this all in a time capsule and re-visit it in 5-10 years. It should prove an interesting look back.

Cheers :)

Mason32
05-16-2012, 05:15 AM
Eagle flying shrinking or being outsourced isn't the issue.
The issue is that it should all be APA flying.
Sitting back and watching eagle replaced with a half dozen other little feed flyers just means somebody else is still doing our flying.
With the 244; 824; and the preferential hiring they all pretty much have hire rights here already.
So, our union needs to stop dicking around and merge lists. Do something creative like take their existing contract and make it a subsection of ours.
We get one list, the company keeps their regional cost effectiveness, and it's a step to bringing all flying back under one roof. It would be a good start that we could build upon later.
It also let's them dump all the duplicated stuff at eagle and reap huge cost savings. So much, that we may not need any, or many, concessions at all if done correctly

eaglefly
05-16-2012, 05:39 AM
Eagle flying shrinking or being outsourced isn't the issue.
The issue is that it should all be APA flying.
Sitting back and watching eagle replaced with a half dozen other little feed flyers just means somebody else is still doing our flying.
With the 244; 824; and the preferential hiring they all pretty much have hire rights here already.
So, our union needs to stop dicking around and merge lists. Do something creative like take their existing contract and make it a subsection of ours.
We get one list, the company keeps their regional cost effectiveness, and it's a step to bringing all flying back under one roof. It would be a good start that we could build upon later.
It also let's them dump all the duplicated stuff at eagle and reap huge cost savings. So much, that we may not need any, or many, concessions at all if done correctly

Good idea and many support this concept. Unfortunately, AMR will never go for it and that would be a requirement. It seems happy, motivated employees isn't necessary for maximum "bottom line" profit projections.

Remember, we are apparently just "bricks in the backpack". It appears this runner intends to lighten that load by 1400-2000 bricks over the next 18 months and this will supposedly provide the increased ability to streak faster toward the goal line (kinda like the 'Hare'). However, another runner (let's call him the 'Tortoise') says he can beat this runner while carrying ALL the bricks and has a history of finishing more of his races, so as one of the bricks, I'm hoping to be transferred to his backpack. I'm willing to make myself as light as reasonably possible for him, as it's clear to me that my current runner who's been limping along wearing the backpack I'm temporarily in isn't going to make the finish line. ;)

buddies8
05-16-2012, 01:02 PM
.
So, our union needs to stop dicking around and merge lists. Do something creative like take their existing contract and make it a subsection of ours.
We get one list, the company keeps their regional cost effectiveness, and it's a step to bringing all flying back under one roof. It would be a good start that we could build upon later.


So bring it in house, but keep the current pay and benefits at ae as is and if required make them less. As long it is in house and one list.

D B Cooper
05-16-2012, 07:27 PM
Eagle flying shrinking or being outsourced isn't the issue.
The issue is that it should all be APA flying.
Sitting back and watching eagle replaced with a half dozen other little feed flyers just means somebody else is still doing our flying.
With the 244; 824; and the preferential hiring they all pretty much have hire rights here already.
So, our union needs to stop dicking around and merge lists. Do something creative like take their existing contract and make it a subsection of ours.
We get one list, the company keeps their regional cost effectiveness, and it's a step to bringing all flying back under one roof. It would be a good start that we could build upon later.
It also let's them dump all the duplicated stuff at eagle and reap huge cost savings. So much, that we may not need any, or many, concessions at all if done correctly

Has the APA even brought this to the table? I may not have a B.A in BS from the Horton school of Business but seems cost savings in redundant companies would be huge, especially attracting new pilots with this every popular pilot shortage comming. Only reason I can see it not happening, is the whipsawing management can play between the two groups, and ALPA. I'm sure Eagle would go APA and that would break ALPA's bank, all 3000.

full of luv
05-17-2012, 12:43 AM
Eagle flying shrinking or being outsourced isn't the issue.
The issue is that it should all be APA flying.
Sitting back and watching eagle replaced with a half dozen other little feed flyers just means somebody else is still doing our flying.
With the 244; 824; and the preferential hiring they all pretty much have hire rights here already.
So, our union needs to stop dicking around and merge lists. Do something creative like take their existing contract and make it a subsection of ours.
We get one list, the company keeps their regional cost effectiveness, and it's a step to bringing all flying back under one roof. It would be a good start that we could build upon later.
It also let's them dump all the duplicated stuff at eagle and reap huge cost savings. So much, that we may not need any, or many, concessions at all if done correctly

Eagle (or any other subcontractor) doesn't just mean cheaper pilots, it means cheaper mx, baggage, customer service, FA's etc etc. Also, moving the flying around gets to "reset" the longevity in the regional fleet every so often as well, ie look at the churn of regional contractors at the other majors for example...

FlySlow
05-17-2012, 07:22 AM
I hope the author of this letter is active in the union. It's disingenuous to blast your union for being corrupt and worthless while sitting back and not participating. If you don't like the direction of your union, make an effort to change it. A Jerry Macquire 'open letter' is pretty useless IMO.
Why does he refer to US Air as "failing". Seems like they are doing ok to me, especially compared to his own airline.

US Airways isn't failing, however, he's right to point out we're not as successful as Parker, Kirby and the press makes us out to be.

Having the East pilots subsidize the rest of the operation makes us look better on paper than we would if we were all paid the same. (East grp. 2 capt. 125/hr, West appx 142/hr)...2011 would most likely not have been profitable if we were all paid and had the same benefits (East vacation: 21 days-West: 35 days).

Be careful with Mr. Parker. But the same goes for Mr. Horton, I'd guess. The Term Sheet has lots of holes in it, having an arbitrator decide every disagreement is a disaster in waiting...Better to get some inputs from East & West negotiators, and get firm language. Remember, we only get what we negotiate!

US Airways needs this merger, over the long term (5-10 years). We have loads of debt, a smaller cash cushion, but also a positive in being smaller across the Atlantic as the EU is imploding. (Though so far traffic is holding up).

That being said, where is Delta? When will they step up to the plate and become spoilers?

B757200ER
05-17-2012, 07:23 AM
"Looking back at our investment in APA and more importantly, looking ahead, where have they led us and where are they taking us now by merging our careers with a weaker, poorly run and more dysfunctional US Air? With twenty or more years “invested” in our own American Airlines careers, isn’t it time for each of us to disconnect the controls and start demanding better results?"

I agree with his sentiments, whoever he is. He has a right to demand more for his dues and for his leadership to be accountable. I also don't think U+AA is the answer. But, since AA is the ugly girl at the prom noone wants to dance with, there are few decent options.

eaglefly
05-17-2012, 07:50 AM
"Looking back at our investment in APA and more importantly, looking ahead, where have they led us and where are they taking us now by merging our careers with a weaker, poorly run and more dysfunctional US Air? With twenty or more years “invested” in our own American Airlines careers, isn’t it time for each of us to disconnect the controls and start demanding better results?"

I agree with his sentiments, whoever he is. He has a right to demand more for his dues and for his leadership to be accountable. I also don't think U+AA is the answer. But, since AA is the ugly girl at the prom noone wants to dance with, there are few decent options.

Unfortunately for AA pilots, the U merger is reality.........and a virtual certainty. The only argument I'm hearing is WHEN it occurs and WHO controls it. Given the apparent reality it will occur, would it be better for AA pilots to get the best deal they can with those most likely to honor that deal or once again put faith in a source that has betrayed them time and time again ?

At least U's offer keeps all current AA pilots employed for any merger, while AMR's is likely to mean upwards of 2000 pilots gone (APA estimate) likely BEFORE that would occur. Additionally, at least SOME scope is retained in the U deal wheras in the AMR "plan", it's a blank check (at least so far). Yes, it's just picking the better of two deals, one being disappointingly poor and the other complete annihalation. Again, it's a "no-brainer" for most of us which to pick to hold onto, an M80 or a hand grenade.

Our contractual working terms though are only half the issue. The other is AA having a FUTURE. That includes aspects like a viable business model and people who can execute that business model or at least have a history of executing successful business models. The timing and control of the merger has been explained to me as a difference of who benefits most from the transaction. In U's plan, it would be the creditors and employees and thus ultimately management and shareholders. In AMR's, it sounds like it's designed primarily as simply another executive compensation generation scheme to provide the biggest exit payoff to current management. One needs to wonder then, will that be at the expense of the other parties with interests above if it results in a disorganized and chaotic AA for someone else to worry about cleaning up the mess after the transaction ?

If I were a creditor hedging my bets, I'd pick the an executive team with a track record and a stable transition vs. nipping every extra buck from labor and risking not having the other two. If AA employees are mangled to the degree now being sought, again, it's extremely difficult for me to see anything for which the inheritor of the new combined carrier has to work with on this side in producing a competitive quality product with motivated employees. Simply swinging a bat increasingly harder to the heads of ones employees hasn't done that yet to my knowledge.

cactusmike
05-17-2012, 10:18 AM
FlySlow, I agree with your premise that the East pilot costs have contributed to subsidizing the operation but I think you over estimate the importance of those costs. 3500 employees out of 18 to 20 thousand is really not that significant. I can see where you get that idea from just looking at the cost difference in the two contracts and comparing those numbers to the profit and loss statement but consider this: when fuel costs rose astronomically the company still made a profit. Those extra costs were covered by an increase in revenue.

I believe that if we had a joint contract similar to the Kirby proposal, which would have had an increase in pilot costs of 160 million per year, that the revenue would have been tweaked to cover those costs. It is just easier for them to let things go on right now the way they are right now rather than really work to maximize the yield. I also think Parker and Kirby are more than happy to let USAPA stew under LOA 93 because they are the ones who stalled the merger by not accepting the SLI and renegotiating every section of the joint contract. They will take full advantage of USAPA until they day that they do not have to, the day when either the AA deal goes down or the judge rules that the company is bound by the Nicolau Award.

Mason32
05-17-2012, 04:30 PM
Eagle flying shrinking or being outsourced isn't the issue.
The issue is that it should all be APA flying.
Sitting back and watching eagle replaced with a half dozen other little feed flyers just means somebody else is still doing our flying.
With the 244; 824; and the preferential hiring they all pretty much have hire rights here already.
So, our union needs to stop dicking around and merge lists. Do something creative like take their existing contract and make it a subsection of ours.
We get one list, the company keeps their regional cost effectiveness, and it's a step to bringing all flying back under one roof. It would be a good start that we could build upon later.
It also let's them dump all the duplicated stuff at eagle and reap huge cost savings. So much, that we may not need any, or many, concessions at all if done correctly

Eagle (or any other subcontractor) doesn't just mean cheaper pilots, it means cheaper mx, baggage, customer service, FA's etc etc. Also, moving the flying around gets to "reset" the longevity in the regional fleet every so often as well, ie look at the churn of regional contractors at the other majors for example...

In our case it means our mechanics get to get trained on EMB and CRJ equipment. The FA's come over just like the pilots, they keep their contract as a subsection of our FA's contract.
All the other stuff... From CEO down to chief pilots and station managers get dumped. An entire administration disappears.
The existing contracts that get folded in as subsections if ours still allow some limited outsourcing already so AMR gets to keep its threat if outsourcing while still reaping the huge rewards from only having to run one airline, not three.
AMR will do whatever you can prove to them makes them money. Our union and ALPA just have expressed zero interest or attempts to merge lists beyond the public rhetoric. On our side, one list, is little more than a war cry... And at ALPA you have a Eagle pilot as a national officer. If they become APA he loses his job. He won't be allowing or encouraging any merged list discussions anytime soon.

Sadly, it would be up to us members to begin forcing the issues, because the elected folks won't unless we force them.

FliFast
05-17-2012, 05:11 PM
I'll have to re-read it, but I missed the part where he said he recommended that APA/AMR restore seniority, backpay, and retirement to the TWA pilots. And how the APA in their fervor to eliminate Supp CC in St. Louis will re-instate the TWA's DOH pilot seniority so that they don't get the double staple with USAir.

I also liked how he said USAirways will gladly bring their Capts pay up to American's pay:

12 yr USAirways A330 Capt $160
12 yr AA B777 Capt $205

Finally, I missed where he quoted how many grievances the APA has actually won when it comes to disputes about Supp CC with AMR management.

I just remember working at TWA right after we were put into BK to eject Carl Icahn, how the American Airlines pilots insulted us and made inflamatory remarks about us because we were in BK...I will never forget their lack of professionalism.

FF

eaglefly
05-17-2012, 05:30 PM
I'll have to re-read it, but I missed the part where he said he recommended that APA/AMR restore seniority, backpay, and retirement to the TWA pilots. And how the APA in their fervor to eliminate Supp CC in St. Louis will re-instate the TWA's DOH pilot seniority so that they don't get the double staple with USAir.

I don't know anyone who's recommending this except some of the former TWA pilots. BTW, it's AMR who has the "fervor" to eliminate CC.

I also liked how he said USAirways will gladly bring their Capts pay up to American's pay:

12 yr USAirways A330 Capt $160
12 yr AA B777 Capt $205

Finally, I missed where he quoted how many grievances the APA has actually won when it comes to disputes about Supp CC with AMR management.

I just remember working at TWA right after we were put into BK to eject Carl Icahn, how the American Airlines pilots insulted us and made inflamatory remarks about us because we were in BK...I will never forget their lack of professionalism.

FF

To say ALL AA pilots did anything is as "inflammatory" as anything else.