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View Full Version : Judge Lane Delays Ruling


Tomahawk58
06-21-2012, 02:33 PM
The judge will delay ruling on AA's 1113 motion.


7576FO
06-21-2012, 02:38 PM
for 1 week according to a rumored conference call.

7576FO
06-21-2012, 02:39 PM
do you think you'll make it throught the next level of managment cuts?


Tomahawk58
06-21-2012, 02:39 PM
for 1 week according to a rumored conference call.

Well, it only took a few nights in a hotel with Mr Parker so I'm sure we can work through it whatever the timeframe.

Tomahawk58
06-21-2012, 02:41 PM
do you think you'll make it throught the next level of managment cuts?

Well, with a 2022 age 65 Captain's retirment date, I think I'll be alright. Thanks for asking though!

eaglefly
06-21-2012, 03:00 PM
Well, with a 2022 age 65 Captain's retirment date, I think I'll be alright. Thanks for asking though!

The real question is you'll be able to hold DFW CA after the merger. My guess is if you do, it'll be in the A319. ;)

Tomahawk58
06-21-2012, 03:05 PM
The real question is you'll be able to hold DFW CA after the merger. My guess is if you do, it'll be in the A319. ;)

Not sure why you and a couple of others choose an approach aimed at trying to belittle those who don't agree with your position 100 percent of the time.

Is this really about me? If it is, I'm flattered :). I'll say it again, I'll be alright whatever the outcome.....truly!

Why don't we return to arguing the merits of a possible agreement once more detail are released.

eaglefly
06-21-2012, 03:28 PM
Not sure why you and a couple of others choose an approach aimed at trying to belittle those who don't agree with your position 100 percent of the time.

Is this really about me? If it is, I'm flattered :). I'll say it again, I'll be alright whatever the outcome.....truly!

Why don't we return to arguing the merits of a possible agreement once more detail are released.

You're wound a bit tight today, Tom. Go down to the rumpus room, fix a fresh gin and tonic and throw a few darts at your Doug Parker picture..........I think your B.P. will drop 20 points at least. :D

Tomahawk58
06-21-2012, 03:34 PM
You're wound a bit tight today, Tom. Go down to the rumpus room, fix a fresh gin and tonic and throw a few darts at your Doug Parker picture..........I think your B.P. will drop 20 points at least. :D

Haha....you do have a sense of humor and that's a good thing! I'm a pretty calm person and harbor no ill will towards Mr. Parker. I just choose to root for the home team.

Thanks for the banter :)

Tomahawk58
06-21-2012, 03:44 PM
Somewhat positive development:

The Allied Pilots Association is telling its members in a Thursday hotline that its board of directors has more time to review American Airlines’ last, best and final offer,” but not too much time –* only until Wednesday, June 27:

“At the request of APA and AMR management, United States Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane has agreed to stay his ruling on our collective bargaining agreement until Friday, June 29. Judge Lane is presiding over the AMR restructuring case and is considering management’s motion to abrogate our collective bargaining agreement.

“The interim period is intended to give APA and management additional time to discuss and deliberate details of management’s ‘final offer’ and to develop related contract language. In voting ‘no’ yesterday against approving management’s final offer as a tentative agreement, Board members cited the lack of specificity in various areas and the need for additional time to properly analyze various contractual provisions and related language.

“Once APA and management have had an opportunity to address the APA Board’s concerns, the Board will vote again on whether to approve management’s offer as a tentative agreement. At Judge Lane’s request, that vote is to take place no later than close of business on Wednesday, June 27.

“Meetings between APA and management are slated to continue through this coming weekend. The APA Board of Directors will reconvene on Monday, June 25 following a weekend recess to provide guidance to the APA negotiating team in the ongoing discussions.”

7576FO
06-21-2012, 04:04 PM
Hey Tramahawk,

You know what the difference between a managment @$$ Kisser and a brown noser is?

Depth perception, and you are 3 knuckles deep.


Dude, your devotion to ZZTom Horton is frightening!

I hope for real you are not a AA pilot, as that would mean the pussification of AA is at an all time low.

Scumbag!

7576FO

eaglefly
06-21-2012, 04:07 PM
Somewhat positive development:

The Allied Pilots Association is telling its members in a Thursday hotline that its board of directors has more time to review American Airlines’ last, best and final offer,” but not too much time –* only until Wednesday, June 27:

“At the request of APA and AMR management, United States Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane has agreed to stay his ruling on our collective bargaining agreement until Friday, June 29. Judge Lane is presiding over the AMR restructuring case and is considering management’s motion to abrogate our collective bargaining agreement.

“The interim period is intended to give APA and management additional time to discuss and deliberate details of management’s ‘final offer’ and to develop related contract language. In voting ‘no’ yesterday against approving management’s final offer as a tentative agreement, Board members cited the lack of specificity in various areas and the need for additional time to properly analyze various contractual provisions and related language.

“Once APA and management have had an opportunity to address the APA Board’s concerns, the Board will vote again on whether to approve management’s offer as a tentative agreement. At Judge Lane’s request, that vote is to take place no later than close of business on Wednesday, June 27.

“Meetings between APA and management are slated to continue through this coming weekend. The APA Board of Directors will reconvene on Monday, June 25 following a weekend recess to provide guidance to the APA negotiating team in the ongoing discussions.”

A vote "no later" then Wednesday June 27. I believe the last day for retirement lock-in is Friday June 29 for those who either want to commit or re-lock (defer) to the next month.

Gee, what a coincidence. :rolleyes:

Tomahawk58
06-21-2012, 04:28 PM
A vote "no later" then Wednesday June 27. I believe the last day for retirement lock-in is Friday June 29 for those who either want to commit or re-lock (defer) to the next month.

Gee, what a coincidence. :rolleyes:

You aren't starting to worry that level heads and minds on both sides just might craft a consensual agreement are you!

7576FO
06-21-2012, 04:57 PM
Bev Goulet "We will get more concessions from our employees than USAir can"

eaglefly
06-21-2012, 05:01 PM
You aren't starting to worry that level heads and minds on both sides just might craft a consensual agreement are you!

Not at all. In fact, I'm willing to read any TA BEFORE I determine whether I'll vote in favor of it, unlike MANY more militant then me. One obvious deal killer is if I cannot determine what a specific provision means. Unfortunatly, given AMR's LONG history of not standing by their own labor agreements intent and finding any and every loophole of exit they can to subvert a contractual provision, if the language is ambiguous, it gets a red line across it.

Of course scope is at the top of the list and that will be the first thing scrutinized and if it isn't acceptable, I'll go no further, but ambiguous B.S. is just as fast a deal killer. I think the chances are high, a deal will be made that will pass the BOD. But I doubt the pilot group will give a free pass, at least not me. It is what it will be and it will stand or fall on its value. Fear of it failing is not a concern. 'll bet a week or so from now, we'll be nitpicking that thing on this forum and of course, you're ALREADY a "yes" vote, so I know where you stand.

Tomahawk58
06-21-2012, 05:09 PM
Not at all. In fact, I'm willing to read any TA BEFORE I determine whether I'll vote in favor of it, unlike MANY more militant then me. One obvious deal killer is if I cannot determine what a specific provision means. Unfortunatly, given AMR's LONG history of not standing by their own labor agreements intent and finding any and every loophole of exit they can to subvert a contractual provision, if the language is ambiguous, it gets a red line across it.

Of course scope is at the top of the list and that will be the first thing scrutinized and if it isn't acceptable, I'll go no further, but ambiguous B.S. is just as fast a deal killer. I think the chances are high, a deal will be made that will pass the BOD. But I doubt the pilot group will give a free pass, at least not me. It is what it will be and it will stand or fall on its value. Fear of it failing is not a concern. 'll bet a week or so from now, we'll be nitpicking that thing on this forum and of course, you're ALREADY a "yes" vote, so I know where you stand.

Thankfully, the future doesn't just belong to you and me alone. I have great faith that a fair reading of any proposal will result in a sensible outcome on the part of the membership. Most don't post and engage in this type of banter.

Most will look to the details to inform their decision. I'm betting the ultimate outcome will be the right one!

Best to all AAer's!

eaglefly
06-21-2012, 05:23 PM
Thankfully, the future doesn't just belong to you and me alone. I have great faith that a fair reading of any proposal will result in a sensible outcome on the part of the membership. Most don't post and engage in this type of banter.

Most will look to the details to inform their decision. I'm betting the ultimate outcome will be the right one!

Best to all AAer's!

Question ;

If the details are fairly scrutinized and "informed" pilots should choose to reject any TA, then is that then "right" and/or "sensible" outcome ?

....or is your opinon the only "sensible" and "right" outcome, a ratification regardless of what the provisions are ?

eaglefly
06-21-2012, 05:33 PM
Bev Goulet "We will get more concessions from our employees than USAir can"

Of course. It would appear the focus isn't on returning AA to prominence with a competitive cost structure, but instead gutting the workers to the max (and making more personal bucks in the process). Perhaps, it's an example of "loving ruthlessness" ? :cool:

Tomahawk58
06-21-2012, 05:44 PM
Question ;

If the details are fairly scrutinized and "informed" pilots should choose to reject any TA, then is that then "right" and/or "sensible" outcome ?

....or is your opinon the only "sensible" and "right" outcome, a ratification regardless of what the provisions are ?

If after a fair reading, the majority of the membership turns down the agreement, then yes, the membership will have spoken and we'll have our opportunity to work under Mr Parker incredible leadership.

Best to all AAer's!

eaglefly
06-21-2012, 06:51 PM
If after a fair reading, the majority of the membership turns down the agreement, then yes, the membership will have spoken and we'll have our opportunity to work under Mr Parker incredible leadership.

Best to all AAer's!

AMR says there will be no changes to the "last, best and final" offer. I now have both a copy of that and a comparison to the term sheet and will spend the next 5 days evaluating these as well as a comparison to the November comprehensive proposal and in especially in regards to scope a look at current (and in the case of DAL, potential) comparisons.

That way, should a TA be forthcoming next week, I'll be ready to note any alterations and be able to make a quick and informed decision on whether it's worthy of ratification for me. No emotion, only facts. Ambiguous language will be assumed to be a negative for the relevent section.

Bad-Andy
06-22-2012, 07:50 AM
Hey Tramahawk,

You know what the difference between a managment @$$ Kisser and a brown noser is?

Depth perception, and you are 3 knuckles deep.


Dude, your devotion to ZZTom Horton is frightening!

I hope for real you are not a AA pilot, as that would mean the pussification of AA is at an all time low.

Scumbag!

7576FO

While I agree with your opinion of Uncle Tom (definitely no vision there), don't think for one second that Uncle Douggie is any better. He Ain't!!! His almost scary obsession with mergers and being the "biggest," at the expense of just running his own airline is downright frightening.

As much as I can't believe I'm about to type this -- eagle is right. A rational, non-emotional side-by-side comparison is the best option right now. Forget about your disgust with current management (because they will come and go with the passing of time), and look at both agreements, both of which will likely be what you retire under (I say that based on the average age of the pilot group, and the likelihood that it will be another 10 years for a new contract).

All I'm saying is that don't foolishly think that the US management team is any better than the AA team. They aren't... (And no, Eagle, I'm not an angry US East guy. I just unemotionally looked at what we have -- this POS LOA 93 and the POS Term Sheet, and I made my rational decision -- I'd rather stay on LOA 93. Yep, it really is that much better -- or at least "less worse").

justjack
06-23-2012, 10:22 AM
While I agree with your opinion of Uncle Tom (definitely no vision there), don't think for one second that Uncle Douggie is any better. He Ain't!!! His almost scary obsession with mergers and being the "biggest," at the expense of just running his own airline is downright frightening.

As much as I can't believe I'm about to type this -- eagle is right. A rational, non-emotional side-by-side comparison is the best option right now. Forget about your disgust with current management (because they will come and go with the passing of time), and look at both agreements, both of which will likely be what you retire under (I say that based on the average age of the pilot group, and the likelihood that it will be another 10 years for a new contract).

All I'm saying is that don't foolishly think that the US management team is any better than the AA team. They aren't... (And no, Eagle, I'm not an angry US East guy. I just unemotionally looked at what we have -- this POS LOA 93 and the POS Term Sheet, and I made my rational decision -- I'd rather stay on LOA 93. Yep, it really is that much better -- or at least "less worse").

I have to agree. This is just more of the same from Parker. He will not even come to the table with a reasonable offer with his own pilots but instead negotiates with the pilot group in bankruptcy, who incidentally would become the majority post merger. The thought that the contract Parker has offered a pilot group in bankruptcy, could be it for the next ten years, is truly depressing.

GW258
06-24-2012, 06:36 AM
Just take a good look at what Parker leads now!

There are a group of his kool-aid drinkers here that are blind as a bat to reality and spend every breath attacking others of thier same pilot group. They come with the deal. That will never change.

There are some things that can't be fixed and are better off for the rest of us if you stop feeding them and allow the natural course of things to happen.

Parker is bad news.