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View Full Version : Hiring with LOW TT and young AGE


shanejj
11-01-2006, 08:30 PM
So I'm a young (19y) pilot with about 320TT and 60HRS Multi TT.

I fly now and then with a 135-operator without pay just to build up the hours...but much rather fly with a company that would pay also :-)
Anyone know what would be the best course of action to take at this stage?
Or if regionals, cargo operators,etc hire with this amount of TT and my AGE (19)...
Any help welcome :-)


JMT21
11-01-2006, 09:05 PM
I'd worry more about working getting that sheepskin then trying to get on with a regional, etc.

KiloAlpha
11-01-2006, 09:08 PM
Sorry but someone has to say it...

320 hours and you want to fly people, not gonna happen... nor should it. Unless you've gained that experience in the military, you have no business in the cockpit of a transport category aircraft.

Do what the rest of us did, go be a flight instructor. You'll be a better, more respected pilot for having done so.


WhiteH2O
11-01-2006, 09:28 PM
How do you fly for a 135 operation with 320 hours? I guess you are sitting right seat, but then, how are you logging it?

de727ups
11-01-2006, 10:19 PM
You need a lot more total time, or your CFI ratings, to get paid to fly.

RedGuy
11-02-2006, 05:02 AM
I'd worry more about working getting that sheepskin then trying to get on with a regional, etc.


I agree 100%! Go to school! It only gets harder the longer you wait, trust me I know. I wish I had gone to college right out of high school, which I'm guessing is basically where your at. You'll need the degree sooner or later, and I wouldn't wast my time on any aviation degree either, diversify yourself.

shanejj
11-02-2006, 08:24 AM
How do you fly for a 135 operation with 320 hours? I guess you are sitting right seat, but then, how are you logging it?

whenever I can sit left seat w/o pax. Thats one way of bldng hrs.

shanejj
11-02-2006, 08:25 AM
I agree 100%! Go to school! It only gets harder the longer you wait, trust me I know. I wish I had gone to college right out of high school, which I'm guessing is basically where your at. You'll need the degree sooner or later, and I wouldn't wast my time on any aviation degree either, diversify yourself.

Yeah I know. And im not wasting time on any aviation degree either.. I'm actually majoring in Computer Programing right now.

WhiteH2O
11-02-2006, 09:53 AM
whenever I can sit left seat w/o pax. Thats one way of bldng hrs.

But you don't have 135 times. How can you fly a 135 flight? Even for VFR you need 500 hours.

kaos
11-02-2006, 04:24 PM
But you don't have 135 times. How can you fly a 135 flight? Even for VFR you need 500 hours.

you need only CPL and IR if required...the minimum time is set by the operator not by FAR.
qouting 135.109
(b) The pilot in command, as designated by the certificate holder, shall remain the pilot in command at all times during that flight.

WhiteH2O
11-02-2006, 08:15 PM
Forgive my lack of 135 knowledge. I was under the impression that 500 hours are required for 135 VFR and 1200 hours is required for 135 IFR. So this is wrong?

If it is, why does every 135 operation require 1200 TT to hire people?

kaos
11-02-2006, 08:34 PM
Forgive my lack of 135 knowledge. I was under the impression that 500 hours are required for 135 VFR and 1200 hours is required for 135 IFR. So this is wrong?

If it is, why does every 135 operation require 1200 TT to hire people?
there are 2 reasons mainly:
1 assurance dont let them fly for less
2 they have internal requirements in place
but believe me to fly airplane for hire you need only the CPL as minimum FAA requirement (or in other words more or less from 190 to 250 hrs).;)

kaos
11-02-2006, 08:38 PM
if you ask my opinion I believe that all these mins rqmt come from the assurance policy. I bet that an operator would be more than happy if he has the chance to choose from a larger pool of pilots (qualified pilots).
but this is just my opinion

de727ups
11-02-2006, 08:56 PM
Try reading FAR 135.243

It's 1200 total for IFR PIC and 500 total for VFR PIC.

WhiteH2O
11-02-2006, 09:10 PM
Try reading FAR 135.243

It's 1200 total for IFR PIC and 500 total for VFR PIC.

Thanks, that is what I was looking for and couldn't find.

RedGuy
11-02-2006, 09:49 PM
if you ask my opinion I believe that all these mins rqmt come from the assurance policy. I bet that an operator would be more than happy if he has the chance to choose from a larger pool of pilots (qualified pilots).
but this is just my opinion


Your bare bones comercial pilot isn't qualifed for 135IFR, they just don't have the expirence. 135 Your required to have 1200hrs IFR PIC or 500hrs VFR PIC. However if he's flying without any pax or freight onboard they're most likely on a 91 leg and he can legaly log it if he's rated in the A/C.

sigep_nm
11-02-2006, 10:09 PM
The flights he is talking about is probably empty when he is at the controls. That would allow this flight to be conducted part 91 which has no time requirements. Thats how you do it.

kaos
11-02-2006, 10:23 PM
well i guys i will explain again, we are talking about minimum requirements (minimum means the least requirements and its a latin word).
read this
135.245 Second in command qualifications.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b), no certificate holder may use any person, nor may any person serve, as second in command of an aircraft unless that person holds at least a commercial pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings and an instrument rating. For flight under IFR, that person must meet the recent instrument experience requirements of part 61 of this chapter.

(b) A second in command of a helicopter operated under VFR, other than over-the-top, must have at least a commercial pilot certificate with an appropriate aircraft category and class rating.
SIC means that you can be as per discretion of the PIC the PF (pilot flying) and the PIC could be the PM (pilot monitoring, as a matter of fact the PNF is going to disappear soon).
if it wasnt in this way how can a pilot build experience?
(dont tell me only CFI because thats not really the experience we are talking about)

kaos
11-02-2006, 10:39 PM
So I'm a young (19y) pilot with about 320TT and 60HRS Multi TT.

I fly now and then with a 135-operator without pay just to build up the hours...but much rather fly with a company that would pay also :-)
Anyone know what would be the best course of action to take at this stage?
Or if regionals, cargo operators,etc hire with this amount of TT and my AGE (19)...
Any help welcome :-)

Shanejj
to answer your question under FAR 135 and 121 the minimum to hire is just your beatiful CPL.
unfortunately i dont know any operator that requires only this, but you can try to ask the operator you are flying for if he can put you in a line training program (they have for sure).
having said that the time you are building is good enough (just try to add night time if you can), keep going on and soon you will have the famous required time (required by the insurance).:D

kaos
11-02-2006, 10:44 PM
onther thing, in case of 121 the requirements are more stringent for what concerns the IFR recency. if my memory serves well

de727ups
11-02-2006, 10:47 PM
Oh....so we were talkin' about SIC mins the whole time. I guess I somehow missed that...

Don't forget that it's not legal to log 135 SIC unless you've been through the companies training program and passed a 135 SIC checkride.

WhiteH2O
11-03-2006, 07:40 AM
whenever I can sit left seat w/o pax

I don't think we are talking about SIC. Plus, an't you only log SIC when two pilots are required?

I am not trying to be a jerk, I am just trying to understand the rules.

de727ups
11-03-2006, 09:39 AM
"Plus, can't you only log SIC when two pilots are required?"

That is correct.

POPA
11-03-2006, 09:55 AM
If he's flying the plane without people/boxes/whatever in the back, it's Part 91 and there aren't any time minimums. However, if there is stuff in the back that's generating revenue, 135 PIC/SIC mins are required.

shanejj
11-03-2006, 05:32 PM
Ok, this has gone totally off-topic....

If there are no passengers, (like in a dropoff), it's considered a P.91 leg,...so I can log that...100% legal :-)
Maybe flying banner planes..or jumpers...those hire with fairly low hours...

KiloAlpha
11-03-2006, 06:46 PM
there are 2 reasons mainly:
1 assurance dont let them fly for less


I think you mean Insurance

kaos
12-27-2006, 09:32 PM
I think you mean Insurance
sorry i just noted your post
i think i know what i mean
assurance
a British term for some kinds of insurance :D
sorry Im not american

iflyjets4food
12-28-2006, 06:21 AM
I don't think we are talking about SIC. Plus, an't you only log SIC when two pilots are required?

I am not trying to be a jerk, I am just trying to understand the rules.

I just now came across this thread. Hopefully, I can clarify a few cloudy items. Under 135 IFR passenger carrying ops, a SIC is ALWAYS required, even in a Seminole or 310. Many places operate without a SIC under an autopilot exemption provided by part 135. That is why they advertise that one must have 1200TT to get hired. They have to meet the PIC mins because the company doesn't have an SIC training program in place. The original poster is probably logging the empty legs as PIC. As we all know, as long as you have a Multi-Engine rating, you can log time in a multi-engine airplane that doesn't require a type when you are sole manipulator of the controls under part 91 as PIC, regardless of how little time you have. I hope this helps. Like I said, I just came across this thread, so maybe you guys straightened it all out before I got here.

rickair7777
12-28-2006, 08:16 AM
But you don't have 135 times. How can you fly a 135 flight? Even for VFR you need 500 hours.

He probably flies 91 repositioning legs.

I hope he is not flying pax for free...

mcartier713
01-25-2007, 06:34 PM
im having a hard time understanding how you need 1200TT to fly part 135 IFR.. but you only need 600TT to fly for comair.

... and kind of off topic, as I'm reading the mins for comair, it says atleast 21 years of age, I thought minimum for ATP was 23?

btwissel
01-26-2007, 02:02 PM
im having a hard time understanding how you need 1200TT to fly part 135 IFR.. but you only need 600TT to fly for comair.

... and kind of off topic, as I'm reading the mins for comair, it says atleast 21 years of age, I thought minimum for ATP was 23?

because, chances are, the 135 operator is using the autopilot exemption to operate their fleet w/o a FO. so if you fly for that 135 outfit, you have to be PIC. to do that IFR you need 1200TT.

to ride right seat and be a gear swinger, you only need the mins to get paid for a SIC type/sign off.

shanejj
02-10-2007, 11:25 AM
to ride right seat and be a gear swinger, .

LOL
gear swinger is exactly right

ImperialxRat
02-10-2007, 10:27 PM
im having a hard time understanding how you need 1200TT to fly part 135 IFR.. but you only need 600TT to fly for comair.

... and kind of off topic, as I'm reading the mins for comair, it says atleast 21 years of age, I thought minimum for ATP was 23?


You need to be 23 to get your ATP, that is correct. You will not upgrade to captain at Comair (or any regional / airline) until you can get your ATP.

I know a guy who is 20yrs old working at Colgan...he wont be getting his upgrade until he is 23.

Make sense?