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View Full Version : China airlines questions


scambo1
01-27-2013, 07:05 AM
I'm not interested for myself, but wanted to ask some questions for clarification. I have flown 2 US pilots (that I'm aware of) to/from China (one of them twice).

One had just finished his hiring process and told us about his package: his starting pay was $210K USD, housing provided, income taxes paid, guaranteed an A320 capt upgrade in 8 months - to fly an RJ.

The other was 3 weeks on 3 weeks off commuting contract, $240k USD, income taxes paid; again to fly an RJ.

I dont remember the airline, but I think one was Tianjen (sp?) Does this seem legitimate or embellished to any of you contract flying pilots?


DjHubberts
01-27-2013, 01:24 PM
While the pay is good, its not quite that good. ERJ 145 rate at Tianjin is $128,000/yr + overtime and bonuses. ERJ190 is $188,000 plus ot and bonuses. Upgrades are debatable and do not happen that quickly. They have upgraded 145 to 190 guys, but have yet to upgrade anyone to the 320. There is talk, but no action yet.

For more info, check out wasinc.aero or parcaviation.aero.

Taxes are a whole new ballgame. First ~$94,000 are excluded. Then there are chinese taxes paid to get written off... its complicated.

scambo1
01-28-2013, 01:12 PM
While the pay is good, its not quite that good. ERJ 145 rate at Tianjin is $128,000/yr + overtime and bonuses. ERJ190 is $188,000 plus ot and bonuses. Upgrades are debatable and do not happen that quickly. They have upgraded 145 to 190 guys, but have yet to upgrade anyone to the 320. There is talk, but no action yet.

For more info, check out wasinc.aero or parcaviation.aero.

Taxes are a whole new ballgame. First ~$94,000 are excluded. Then there are chinese taxes paid to get written off... its complicated.

DJ;

Thank you for the reply. Even still, what I read from you, they may not have been (grossly) exaggerating when you take into account the tax benefits. Because they may have said something to the effect of (the equivalent of) getting paid the sums I mentioned.

I am assuming you work for one of the Chinese carriers.

One of the FO's I have flown with (at DAL, was a 73N Capt and 320 Capt prior to bidding 777FO) has a wife who is an American 737 Capt, they are soon to be empty nesters and were considering "retiring" and looking for flying jobs in Asia. I thought this was an interesting idea.

Personally, I liked being an expat (way back when), but my wife is absolutely against the idea. Now that DAL seems to be hitting its post-bankruptcy stride, I am no longer interested, but do miss many of the aspects of that life.

One thing I would mention to, or caution folks about, who are planning to return to the US from the expat life is that it is verrrrrry expensive to get yourself re-established upon return. IOW, plan accordingly.


The Dominican
01-28-2013, 04:42 PM
@scambo1: there are indeed some good opportunities out there for people wanting do something interesting in their later years for sure, and as the market gets more difficult for the airlines to recruit, the better the T&C'S are getting. Not all the jobs are good of course, there is reasearch to be made but the expat market will continue to get interesting for the next decade for sure.

Typhoonpilot
01-28-2013, 07:46 PM
DJ;

Thank you for the reply. Even still, what I read from you, they may not have been (grossly) exaggerating when you take into account the tax benefits. Because they may have said something to the effect of (the equivalent of) getting paid the sums I mentioned.

I am assuming you work for one of the Chinese carriers.

One of the FO's I have flown with (at DAL, was a 73N Capt and 320 Capt prior to bidding 777FO) has a wife who is an American 737 Capt, they are soon to be empty nesters and were considering "retiring" and looking for flying jobs in Asia. I thought this was an interesting idea.

Personally, I liked being an expat (way back when), but my wife is absolutely against the idea. Now that DAL seems to be hitting its post-bankruptcy stride, I am no longer interested, but do miss many of the aspects of that life.

One thing I would mention to, or caution folks about, who are planning to return to the US from the expat life is that it is verrrrrry expensive to get yourself re-established upon return. IOW, plan accordingly.


If the person you are talking about wants to look for jobs overseas he needs to get back in the left seat. As an A320 or 737NG captain he'd have lots of choices. His wife might have a more difficult time finding work overseas. Not impossible, but definitely fewer opportunities than for men.



TP

Probe
01-28-2013, 08:18 PM
The pay in China is after Chinese tax is paid, at least if the airline doesn't cheat. I got an official tax certificate showing how much they paid the government.

Chinese (and Japanese) taxes are higher than in the US. Because of this, if you understand our tax code, you get "foreign tax credits" to count against future tax liabilities up to ten years in the future.

In my case, because of the time frame that I worked in China, i will get somewhere around 30k USD in tax credits for the last 18 months I worked in China.

I believe Skymark in Japan also pays Japanese tax. If they do it legit, same deal. You should end up owing nothing in US tax for your Japanese income, and earn foreign tax credits for your future US tax liabilities.

OceanicPilot
01-29-2013, 01:51 AM
The pay in China is after Chinese tax is paid, at least if the airline doesn't cheat. I got an official tax certificate showing how much they paid the government.

Chinese (and Japanese) taxes are higher than in the US. Because of this, if you understand our tax code, you get "foreign tax credits" to count against future tax liabilities up to ten years in the future.

In my case, because of the time frame that I worked in China, i will get somewhere around 30k USD in tax credits for the last 18 months I worked in China.

I believe Skymark in Japan also pays Japanese tax. If they do it legit, same deal. You should end up owing nothing in US tax for your Japanese income, and earn foreign tax credits for your future US tax liabilities.

This was my experience as well. I'm in the ME now and using my four years of tax credits from working in China to cover the tax bill now since the ME has no tax.

Emb170man
01-29-2013, 05:09 AM
Enter Content

EXPAT1
01-30-2013, 04:51 AM
If the person you are talking about wants to look for jobs overseas he needs to get back in the left seat. As an A320 or 737NG captain he'd have lots of choices. His wife might have a more difficult time finding work overseas. Not impossible, but definitely fewer opportunities than for men.
TP

I agree as TP stated, most Chinese carriers are looking for current within 12 months as a Captain on A 320 or 737NG. The female will have no problem getting a job in China as a Captain. My airline has several and in China if you are competent, no matter what sex you are, you will get the job. Honestly though I can't imagine the lure of 2 Major Airline pilots making excellent salaries collectively, wanting to come to China and be an Ex-Pat. I know many Ex-Pats who would gladly trade places if it were possible though.

My opinion is the upgrade from an E-145 to A-320 may be promised as an attractor but don't believe it as I don't think it will ever materialize. I know Tianjin has upgraded a few E145 to 190 types but not many if any at all will cross over to the A 320. China is a great place to earn big money in the short term but a very difficult environment on many fronts for the long term. I would say 6 years is about the maximum most guys will last here. Having said that, 6 years at 200K plus per year should make you financially sound for awhile if you are financially prudent and wise.

Probe
01-30-2013, 07:37 PM
If I were to do China I again, I would only do it based in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, or Shenzhen. That is it.

Why? Access to decent western healthcare. Where I was based the last year there was none. We had to hop on a plane to somewhere with a decent hospital.

In 12 months (5 pilots):

1. One medivac-ed out due to injury.
2. Same pilot self-medivac-ed out due to illness (2 weeks in hospital).
3. 2 other pilots wish they had flown our due to illness (also 2 weeks violently ill)
4. The other two (including me) all flew to Guangzhou at least once during that time for medical attention.


Tianjin is close to Beijing, but not close enough. Still a couple of hours by train or taxi.

DjHubberts
01-31-2013, 12:32 AM
But Tianjin has a branch of the western hospitals that are in Beijing.

EXPAT1
01-31-2013, 01:29 AM
If I were to do China I again, I would only do it based in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, or Shenzhen. That is it.

Personally I would not live in Beijing or Tianjin unless they paid me an extra $4000 per month. The air quality will literally take years off your life. The air there is the worst in the world and years of industrial pollution will definitely affect your health. I agree Guanzhou and Shenzhen have nice ExPat communities and close to Hong Kong/Macau. The health care in any modern Chinese city is adequate for up to medium level health care. The heart center in the hospital in my city, a medium sized city in S. China has state of the art MRI, CT scan and EKG and other heart diagnostic machines. I wouldn't get open heart surgery if needed but everything up through medium level care is very professional. The biggest problem is the language barrier and navigating the Chinese health care system, but if you can get some of the Chinese First Officers to help you out then you can accomplish most health related items in any modern Chinese city. For example I get an annual heart MRI scan and the total cost is about $50. This is a $1200 test in the US.

OceanicPilot
02-01-2013, 10:13 AM
I totally agree on the healthcare front. We lived in Shenzhen and we went to Hong Kong for our medical needs. My wife had two surgeries there and my daughter was hospitalized there as well. In all three cases we felt the medical care we received there to be at least on par with the US or better. We also knew two pilots who had stents put in their hearts there who were quite happy with the care they received. In my book the medical care alone gives Shenzhen and Guangzhou an advantage as they are both a quick ferry ride away from Hong Kong.

f10a
02-01-2013, 03:40 PM
Been to HK and PVG many times, but how is Shenzen for an expat?

Probe
02-01-2013, 09:16 PM
I didn't live there, but went there many times, and knew a lot of expats that lived there. It is kind of a "fake" city, like Beijing. The city is basically all brand new. But very expat friendly, and a walk or ferry ride to HK.

The only negative (other than being mainland) is the air quality. CAN used to be just as bad or worse, but a couple of years ago they had a couple of big events in CAN and they supposedly moved a lot of the factories away from the city. CAN the airport the air is still bad, but the city is not to bad by Chinese standards. Shenzhen and HK have much worse air quality now than Guangzhou now.

I know a couple of coworkers from my US airline that worked for Shenzhen. The last couple of years it has been a decent place to work as well. The part of the airline that hires expats is well sorted out.

320's do mostly multi-day trips, but they stay in nice hotels.
737's do 1 day trips.

This has been the same for the last 2-3 years, but could change tomorrow.

The hotel comment is important. Most chinese airline crew hotels are horrific. Worse than anyplace you have ever stayed. We stayed at the same hotel their crews did in one city. It was our best layover hotel. My buddy at Shenzhen said it was by far their worst.

OceanicPilot
02-01-2013, 11:44 PM
We lived in Shenzhen for almost four years. As a city I enjoyed it and the expat community was wonderful. We especially loved the proximity to HK (I could easily live there long term). We are often "home sick" for China and HK especially. As far as the work environment goes I left for a reason. Many of them actually.

DjHubberts
02-02-2013, 06:42 AM
Chinese crew hotels. The worst part of china flying, by far. Take the worst hotels you ever had to overnight at the regional in the states, and they would be luxury. Most of these dives wouldn't score high enough for motel 6 to leave a light on.

f10a
02-02-2013, 04:41 PM
Does the low quality of hotels tend to be the same for corporate jet operators?

OceanicPilot
02-02-2013, 07:15 PM
Knew a guy with BAA who once spent a night in a tent in Mongolia. Other than that I believe he stayed in better places than I did.

Probe
02-03-2013, 12:47 AM
The tent in Mongolia sounds better than most of the hotels we stayed in. At least the great outdoors doesn't wreak of cigarette ashes. The locals use the carpeting of their rooms as an ashtray. The hotels don't have vacuum cleaners so the maid just take a broom and sweeps the ashes into the carpeting. Black splotches all over the carpet. You have to wear your shoes or flip flops indoors.

My first 6 months I spent 4 nights a week in Kunming. There was a sign next to the thermostat (non functional) that said that they only turn the heat on from 8 pm to 4 am. Most nights no heat at all. I used to carry a little ceramic heater in my bag. In the summer, no AC. My bag wasn't big enough for a portable AC.

Probe
02-03-2013, 12:59 AM
In China you either want to fly one day trips, or work for Shenzhen Air. I stayed at the same hotels as China Southern, China Eastern, Spring, Lucky Air, West Air, TIanjin, Hainan Air, and Sichuan. Maybe a few others. A lot of them are "CAAC" government owned and operated crew hotels.

I stayed in 2 Shenzhen Airline hotels. Harbin and Guangzhou. They were OK. A couple of their pilots I talked to confirmed this.

OceanicPilot
02-03-2013, 01:45 AM
Those were/are the two nicest hotels in their system. Don't judge a book by its cover. I forked over my own money for a room in a hotel across town in Nanning it was so disgusting. When I left Shenzhen the Guangzhou hotel was supposed to be switched to the CAAC hotel being built in the near future. If its like anything else in China the building will go up in 3 moths and them fall over next year.

scambo1
02-03-2013, 05:21 PM
Those were/are the two nicest hotels in their system. Don't judge a book by its cover. I forked over my own money for a room in a hotel across town in Nanning it was so disgusting. When I left Shenzhen the Guangzhou hotel was supposed to be switched to the CAAC hotel being built in the near future. If its like anything else in China the building will go up in 3 moths and them fall over next year.

Amazing : New apartment building tips over in China - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pktM__i-8IQ)

One tidbit I've picked up from our FAs is that in the Chinese hotel TVs there are always some pixels missing. They swear it is a video camera inside the TV. More than once I've heard that if you cover the missing pixels with a towel, the maid will be knocking on your door quickly.

Thoughts?

Probe
02-03-2013, 06:31 PM
OK. Back to my original recommendation.

If you want to work China, only Shanghai, Shenzhen, Beijing, or Guangzhou.

At an airline that does mostly 1 days trips.

You should hear how they clean the carpets in Chinese hotels. Too much thread creep.

atpcliff
02-03-2013, 09:49 PM
Some comments based on ads I have seen:

Top -320 capt pay $20K/month. Lowest was $12K on a postal contract...have NO idea how they can pay that low. Some of the -320 capt jobs offer a company paid upgrade to -330 capt within one year.
Top -190 capt pay $18.5/month, with a company paid upgrade to -320 capt in one year.
Top -145/-170/-175 capt pay $15/month, with a company paid upgrade to -320 capt in one year.
You used to have to live in China. Now they are advertising ALL kinds of different commuting schedules. Some ads even state that their scheduler will work with you to set up your own commuting schedule. I believe at least one Chinese airlines has some US/Canadian bases.

Some of the -320 capt jobs are now saying last flown within 5 years. PIC and total mins have gone down.

CRJ jobs are harder to come by. Have not seen any FO China jobs.

cliff
One of my friends learned Mandarin, moved there, married a Chinese girl, and loves it. I personally really like Hong Kong, and would also like Shanghai if it wasn't for the horrible air pollution (HKG also has air pollution problems, but not as bad as PVG).

Probe
02-04-2013, 01:03 AM
Reality check.

20k a month. Some, yes. A few even better with overtime. But if you are med down for 2-8 months of the year, how much did you make per month? I believe 12 of our 15 expats pilots last year lost at least 2 months pay for "medical". One lost 7 or 8 months.

320-330.

Sichuan Airlines - has been done it at least once.
Hainan Airines - last I heard (July), all 8 failed their checkrides.
Tianjin Airlines - promising it for over a year, don't an A330 in stock.
BCA - Promising it for 3 years, don't have an A330 in stock
Air China - I don't know but if anybody has done it they are still an FO.
Sorry, #2 Captain. Not PIC

190-320

Tianjin Airlines only - No one has done it.

5 years out of type/cockpit? We had one of those. He came, he left. He quit another job because of the job offer here. The 22 year olds in the Foreign Pilot Office said yes. The CAAC said no. He was here less than 2 weeks.

In reality, yes you can make 18-20k a month, most months on a 320 or 737 in China. That is all you can reasonably expect, IF you get the job. The rest are a combination of "pipe dreams" of the pilots running the airlines, and a carrot to hold out in front of you to get you to apply.

Foreign bases? Yes, but that mostly means you will deadhead to PEK or PVG, and then fly for your 6/2 rotation, then deadhead home. Chinese pilots get a huge premium for international trips. Double pay. Some maybe better. You won't be seeing a lot of Paris in the summer. You will be flying what the Chinese don't want to fly. Same same most expat jobs.

Air China started foreign bases maybe 3 years ago. The expats just flew to China and then back home. I think it lasted 6 months, and the Chinese pilots bi&%$#ed. The Chinese pilots won. Of course. It is their company, we are just hired guns for a couple of years.

Most of the expats pilots I know in China wished we lived and worked in Hong Kong.

DjHubberts
02-04-2013, 02:09 AM
Careful with some of the advertised 'montly ' rates. At least one company that I know of lumps all their payments together, then gives a 12 month average pay. That way it looks like their contract is higher paid, even thought the contract terms are really the same. They just build the yearly bonus into the monthly average rate.

Probe
02-04-2013, 03:01 AM
I would also go with Parc as an agent. They pay on the 25 of the month, before you finish your month of work. The chinese have a bad habit of paying late. Most, if not all, of the other agencies pay only after the airline pays them. This was an issue with a couple of pilots. No pay, no worky.

Wasinc probably has the most experience in getting you the job. They would be a close second. The rest are complete wankers. I would not work any job in China, unless they were represented by one of those two agencies.

Tianjin and West Air are trying to push some agency called APAS. They tried to recruit a couple of us. They were clueless. It is probably a friend or relative of some high ranking pilot at one of these two airlines.

DjHubberts
02-04-2013, 03:35 PM
The tent in Mongolia sounds better than most of the hotels we stayed in. At least the great outdoors doesn't wreak of cigarette ashes. The locals use the carpeting of their rooms as an ashtray. The hotels don't have vacuum cleaners so the maid just take a broom and sweeps the ashes into the carpeting. Black splotches all over the carpet. You have to wear your shoes or flip flops indoors.

My first 6 months I spent 4 nights a week in Kunming. There was a sign next to the thermostat (non functional) that said that they only turn the heat on from 8 pm to 4 am. Most nights no heat at all. I used to carry a little ceramic heater in my bag. In the summer, no AC. My bag wasn't big enough for a portable AC.

So you are saying there is a reason that the crew hotels all provide the disposable slippers.... guess throw away slippers are cheaper than a dozen industrial strength vacuum cleaners

aafurloughee
02-04-2013, 04:34 PM
If the person you are talking about wants to look for jobs overseas he needs to get back in the left seat. As an A320 or 737NG captain he'd have lots of choices. His wife might have a more difficult time finding work overseas. Not impossible, but definitely fewer opportunities than for men.



TP

Curious, I have about 10000+ TT, 2500 TT of A320 of which 1500 is PIC. But I have not flown 320 in a decade. I have a recall opp with AA and an opportunity to bid the 319. Question is with my past exp and now being current and qualified, albeit in the right seat, would I qualify for a DEC slot??

Thanks, just planning for future possibilities.

Probe
02-04-2013, 06:46 PM
More than likely not, but you never know.

One really bad thing in China is that everything you do will be decided by that Chinese person, on the spot. They have lots of rules, but the only thing they do, as a rule, is ignore all rules. The 22 year old in the office might say "your hired". The 22 year old working in the CAAC office might say no.

Everything you do is a crap shoot. In this case you are current on the aircraft. You can always try, just don't give up your slot at AA. There are a few contract jobs out there that are reasonably secure. Chinese jobs are not.

In two years we went from 8# (me) then maybe got up to 15, a few months later back down to 9#, they might be back up to 15. God knows how many pilots they hired to get back to 15.

Probe
02-04-2013, 07:19 PM
Cameras in the rooms? Maybe, but they were probably never hooked up, or stopped working. Doing this would take active work, and cost somebody in China money.

Everyone on the outside thinks China is a very carefully controlled country. On a macro scale, it is. Once you look closer, or god forbid, live in the middle of it, nothing is controlled. It is more like chaos.

Mao liked chaos. It is easier to control. You have to control the whole thing, en mass, but you don't really care what goes on in the middle. Chaos mostly controls itself. The best example is a large ant or termite mound. If you look very close, it is chaos. If you take 10 steps back, they are building something useful.

Cameras? Who knows. Maybe they will get them working after they get the heat and AC working, and figure out how to clean a carpet. Until then, you will have to wear your little disposable flip flops, that were way too small for my size 11's, and maybe carry a little ceramic heater on your layovers.

In China nothing would surprise me.

Controlled Rest
02-05-2013, 03:19 AM
Curious, I have about 10000+ TT, 2500 TT of A320 of which 1500 is PIC. But I have not flown 320 in a decade. I have a recall opp with AA and an opportunity to bid the 319. Question is with my past exp and now being current and qualified, albeit in the right seat, would I qualify for a DEC slot??

Thanks, just planning for future possibilities.

Most, not all, contracts want recent PIC time. You'd have far more options if you got back in the left seat for a year first.

OceanicPilot
02-05-2013, 04:06 AM
Get current on the bus and then I think you are fairly well set as they continually need to recruit guys. Personally if I had an AA recall I wouldn't go to China unless you really want an adventure and/or you only had a couple of years to retirement.

aafurloughee
02-05-2013, 08:20 AM
Nope still have kids. But am almost an empty nester. Thanks. Well have to see hoe the SLI shakes out.

oicur12
02-11-2013, 08:07 AM
"Air China started foreign bases maybe 3 years ago. The expats just flew to China and then back home."

They started about 5 years ago.

"I think it lasted 6 months...."

The foreign crew are still based outside of China in Europe, Australia and YVR. Air china are still trying to grow the foreign captain crew numbers and are looking for 330 skippers in all bases including YVR.

Its the only genuine foreign based job in China.

I only lasted there for 3 years.

HotPot
03-05-2013, 04:44 AM
Without reading every post.... Look at VOR holdings and WASINC. They have the contracts with pay on there websites for all to see.

Yes, the tax receipt is gold.

The Dominican
03-05-2013, 06:05 AM
Yes, the tax receipt is gold.

Lots of issues with that right now! Make sure your contract company assures you proper paperwork on regards to your taxes being paid in your host country! Uncle Sam is not accepting hear say! Also, many guys in the dessert being harassed by the taxman about time over international waters being considered time in the US!!!!!!!!:eek:

HotPot
03-05-2013, 06:25 AM
Dom,

The IRS will take ALL income over International water as income NOT benefitted by the 'foreign tax exclusion credit'.

As for the contract. I stated VOR and WASINC because I am familiar with there listings and contracts.

In regards to tax receipts. Many airlines provide this. All those looking into a specific company must verify this with the recruiter.

check and verify is always a good idea.

captjns
03-05-2013, 06:26 AM
Lots of issues with that right now! Make sure your contract company assures you proper paperwork on regards to your taxes being paid in your host country! Uncle Sam is not accepting hear say! Also, many guys in the dessert being harassed by the taxman about time over international waters being considered time in the US!!!!!!!!:eek:

It has been and will continued to be successfully argued! For tax purposes, that one is still deemed off US soil whilst operating as a crewmember on a non US registered aircraft employed by a non US company and in the possession of valid documents issued country where the individual is employed.

Most contracting agencies and airlines' expat cells are very helpful in obtaining proof of tax payment documents containing official stamps.

HotPot
03-05-2013, 06:38 AM
I did not know about the foreign aircraft detail. I hope that is true. As for me; I just stay inside China. I could have moved to a contract flying A330 again for the Chinese, but declined for this tax reason.

captjns
03-05-2013, 06:42 AM
I did not know about the foreign aircraft detail. I hope that is true. As for me; I just stay inside China. I could have moved to a contract flying A330 again for the Chinese, but declined for this tax reason.

Check with your accountant. The can direct you to a CPA that is familiar with the IRC as it pertains to US citizens working abroad, paying taxes in that country at the normal rates.

globalexpress
03-05-2013, 10:17 AM
Just out of curiosity, how are US pilots treated over there by their fellow Chinese crews? I was standing in lines in customs in GRU a while back, chatting with a Korean Air Captain (white guy, ex-pat) who was flying with Korean co-pilots. This Captain seemed to imply that there was quite a bit of silent animosity between the white expat pilots and the Korean pilots. He was saying that they are "polite" to you but in the cockpit there is no comraderie, chit-chat, pleasantries, etc., and ditto for the layovers. He was speaking very quietly and wasn't even standing in line with his fellow co-pilots which is what first caught my attention. That would absolutely suck I think, but maybe the guy was a tool and that's why they didn't hang with him. Just seemed weird.

minimwage4
03-05-2013, 01:51 PM
Just out of curiosity, how are US pilots treated over there by their fellow Chinese crews? I was standing in lines in customs in GRU a while back, chatting with a Korean Air Captain (white guy, ex-pat) who was flying with Korean co-pilots. This Captain seemed to imply that there was quite a bit of silent animosity between the white expat pilots and the Korean pilots. He was saying that they are "polite" to you but in the cockpit there is no comraderie, chit-chat, pleasantries, etc., and ditto for the layovers. He was speaking very quietly and wasn't even standing in line with his fellow co-pilots which is what first caught my attention. That would absolutely suck I think, but maybe the guy was a tool and that's why they didn't hang with him. Just seemed weird.

Probably cuz he's western and they're Chinese! Huge cultural difference. What do you expect they probably don't speak very good English and vice versa Chinese. Good luck!

The Dominican
03-05-2013, 02:23 PM
No Chinese first officers at Korean Air......!

I have several friends at KAL, at both the 330&777 fleets, they all say the same thing, it all depends on your personality and what group does your F/O belongs to, if he is former military then yes, it will be a quiet ride, if he if from the civilian side then not so bad. No socializing on the overnights and the girls although polite are distant, that is one thing that I think Japan is a lot better, pretty friendly working environment I think, but of course, there are some guys that get out of their way to become disliked.


My apologies for the thread drift

Probe
03-05-2013, 06:36 PM
I don't have first hand experience with KAL.

There are a huge number of negatives (?????) about working in China. The way you will be treated by your local co-workers is not one of them. You will not be treated better on a daily basis, anywhere. Even if you are a complete tool.

This takes some of the edge off of working there.

EXPAT1
03-05-2013, 08:28 PM
My experience in China is the FOs treat us much better and they are much friendlier with us as foreigners. They are very eager to learn and even though they lack experience they are respectful and have great attitudes towards the foreigners (Ex-Pats). The Chinese Captains are a little jealous but overall they understand our importance and that we are only short term solutions helping out their company until the growth slows down sometime in the future. I have several friends at Korean and their experience is far different than what we experience in China. At Korean you are esentially on your own as an Ex-Pat, only professional exchanges while on duty. No reading, conversing or social interaction takes place outside of normal flying duties and while on the layovers you are on your own. In China we commingle alot on layovers and even have parties on off days occasionally.

HotPot
03-06-2013, 05:13 PM
I dont know about KAL either.
I am starting year 5 in China. I can only say good things about the job and the people I work with here. The crews are great here. Not looking forward to going back and flying with some of the attitudes in the states compared to my co-workers here.

okipilot
03-07-2013, 01:43 AM
Enter Content

pierre66
03-10-2013, 07:38 PM
Yeah, I'll second that......Year 3 as a foreign captain here in Shanghai and now working with purely Chinese crews (F/O's and Captains). They treat me fine and with respect, for the most part. I think it depends on your attitude, if you are interested in them they are interested and friendly with you.

yoke jerker
03-17-2013, 04:38 PM
year 3 in china..just passed my medical..doc just said your liver has higher fat level than last time..so watch it...just found out white rice is bad for you..but life in shenzhen is great.....FOs are all good....i give a highly detailed takeoff briefing to anyone new and it's all good.

DjHubberts
03-19-2013, 06:20 PM
White rice is bad for you? Besides the high glycemic index, heavy metal absorption and lack of vitamins? Sometimes its the only thing I can stomach in the crew meal

atpcliff
03-19-2013, 08:07 PM
Saw some job adverts for Chinese capts....they said recency requirement was in the last 5 years! Used to have to be current...