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oicur12
02-12-2013, 10:26 AM
I have recently commenced sending resumes to airlines here in the US for the first time since spending 10 years of flying in Asia with the last 3 in China.

Jetblue for example require a:

"...ten (10) year background check"

I assume that this is a background check of flying history verifying employment and incident/accident events etc.

Can anybody here who has returned from a China contract to an airline job in the US shed some light on this process and how it works.

My concern is that my employer in China basically does not communicate with the outside world about you once you leave the job. This is common and several pilots are trying to extract information from them such as letter of employment or letter of no incident/accident without any luck at all.

Has anybody here moved from China back to the US and jumped these hurdles before.


chazbird
02-12-2013, 06:53 PM
As someone who worked offshore on a contract in Asia (but not in China) as I understand it to satisfy the PRIA the airline need only attempt to contact a foreign carrier for the records. Still, it would be wise to keep photo-copies of your PC's, resignation letter, etc.

Although, you can cross FedEx off your list, (and maybe UPS, + perhaps others) for 5 years after you return because they will not hire pilots who've flown overseas (excluding military and, get this, missionary work). Reason: They have a major USPS contract, and since you've worked overseas obviously you're a terrorist. This is the USPS's doing and not any one carrier. This is troubling since, besides being a stupid contract stipulation with no basis for support, when I was furloughed in the USA I was flying the same freight/company owned aircraft before I left for overseas. USA=dysfunction. Good luck.

The Dominican
02-12-2013, 07:16 PM
Not if he has maintained a US address, the criteria is not wher you work is where you live. And that only applies to FedEx


oicur12
02-12-2013, 09:10 PM
I recently discovered this 5 year rule. I have only lived in the US for 4 years, now a green card holder.

Theres an obstacle to everything in this game huh!!!

Thanks for the info.

chazbird
02-13-2013, 08:12 AM
(RE maintaining a U.S. address). OK, maybe I (happily) stand corrected.
question: While I rented in the host country I kept my place in the USA, had mail go there, utilities paid by me, vehicles kept registered there & came back every 90 days for 21 days (paid by the company). Would that let me out of the 5 year rule?

The Dominican
02-13-2013, 11:13 AM
Why are you even concern about it? Unless you have friends that are members of the norther Mississippi flying club and you are directly targeting FedEx, this is a non issue. About your address, what address did you give when you applied for your job, license, medicals? What address does your company has on file as your address, what address is on both your FAA & CAA licenses? I guess that is your address then! You are over thinking it, besides, how long you think the USPS will be around for? That will go the way of the typewriter soon I suspect.

chazbird
02-13-2013, 11:39 AM
That's right, what am I concerned about this for? Mostly as a matter of that long lost thing called a principle. I had a relative at FedEx who's was hired as a pilot in '78, now retired, but I don't think that would help, and its true, I probably won't qualify for FedEx even after I flew airplanes they owned, their cargo, and they paid me via their contractor (i.e. contractor carrier). We know that syndrome.

The principle thing isn't against FedEx, its just dumb hindrances like the USPS "rule". The way things have been going, now for over a decade, if you add up and abide by all the stipulations and hoops to jump through to get a job these days, if applied universally, one would never get a flying job. I found the USPS "rule" to be one of the more stupid one's. I've moved on past that last insult but I am warily waiting for the next "surprise".

The Dominican
02-13-2013, 12:25 PM
That you think the USPS rule is dumb is irrelevant, like I said before, your address is and has been your us address so it is not an issue. Coming across like you have an ax to grind is!

Good luck on your job hunt

threeighteen
02-13-2013, 03:13 PM
Why are you even concern about it? Unless you have friends that are members of the norther Mississippi flying club and you are directly targeting FedEx, this is a non issue. About your address, what address did you give when you applied for your job, license, medicals? What address does your company has on file as your address, what address is on both your FAA & CAA licenses? I guess that is your address then! You are over thinking it, besides, how long you think the USPS will be around for? That will go the way of the typewriter soon I suspect.

The USPS contract that FedEx has is about the only profitable sector of the USPS, which is why they're still going to deliver packages on Saturdays, but not mail/letters.

FedEx doesn't really carry much in the way of USPS mail, mostly just USPS packages.

chazbird
02-13-2013, 03:23 PM
Dominican: Thanks for the useful address/resident information. And I'll put the ax down.

HIFLYR
02-13-2013, 03:56 PM
Remember FedEx asks about residency not address be careful they are not the same thing. For example having a U.S. address but claiming the expat deduction on taxes. You can use the link on the FedEx website to ask questions about your specific situation.

pilotrob23
02-14-2013, 01:01 AM
Very weak rule. You are still an American citizen, and you still pay taxes?! Doesn't make sense, but what does in this industry?

rotorhead1026
02-14-2013, 01:54 AM
having a U.S. address but claiming the expat deduction on taxes.

That's perfectly legal using the "physical presence test", although few of us are able to qualify for this. I was, and my "legal" address was still stateside. Yeah, check with FedEx, and even then I'll bet the answer isn't set in concrete. Unfortunate.

captjns
02-14-2013, 04:03 AM
It all goes to supply vs demand. The problem is that there is more supply of pilot employed in the US vs expat pilots wanting to come home to a job with, say Fed Ex. Until there is a shift in supply then Fed Ex through the USPS will stand by their requirements.

I've not had any problems with background or PRIAs over the years when applying with prospective companies back home. The main problem here remains pay, terms and conditions, and QOL.

The Dominican
02-14-2013, 04:13 AM
That's perfectly legal using the "physical presence test", although few of us are able to qualify for this. I was, and my "legal" address was still stateside. Yeah, check with FedEx, and even then I'll bet the answer isn't set in concrete. Unfortunate.
I agree. But I don't think this is the case for the OP, if he is coming back from working in China his salary will be net (taxes paid by the company) he wouldn't be filing under the foreign tax exception but rather under the non-double taxation.
But I think we took a wrong road here, someone explain to me as to why the way he files his taxes is any of a potential employer's business, that is between him and his overbearing uncle.
The question is if coming back from a job in the international market will affect you in any way (well, negatively rather because his résumé will look a LOT more interesting) to get a job back in the US, NO! Why would it? I have expatriate myself a couple of times throughout my career without a problem getting back, in the end of the 80's I was working abroad and started applying with the majors, got the pool without any problems, there are many guys that I know that worked at KAL, EK, AJX that have gotten jobs back in the US (and no, not returning from a furlough) the only job that specifies the 5 years previous living in the US is FedEx, but I don't even think that is an issue here either, the OP has his address in the US, he files his taxes, keeps his drivers license, has his bank account, his family ties, everything is based on his physical address which is in the US. I have several places in different parts of the world, including my apartment in Narita and my homes in the Caribbean, how much time I spend a year in any of my places is irrelevant. Another one of our pilots has two homes in the US (one of them is his physical address) has his apartment in Narita and bought a home in Bangkok, his physical address is his physical address, a lot of people has paid the ultimate price to assure that he doesn't have to report to the politburo, how he distributes his time between his homes.

Typhoonpilot
02-14-2013, 05:48 AM
Just be aware that their are stories of Fedex terminating new hires after they found out information on the application was not 100% truthful.

I thought there was a thread about that somewhere, but I couldn't find it.


TP

chazbird
02-14-2013, 07:32 AM
Regardless of whether I have an appropriate address and regardless of whether I ever work for FedEx or not, doesn't it bother any of you that this contract stipulation exists? Besides being insulting, stupid, fearful, paranoid, and its reasoning being utterly unfounded its discriminatory. Being a U.S. citizen, without a felony or other criminal disqualifications, supposedly allows you to work for any U.S. company (should you meet their qualifications). Where's the crime in working overseas? Are you a terrorist? They have to prove it. (or is this punishment for having the gall to work for better pay and conditions elsewhere?)

This stipulation is ripe for a decent employment attorney to make real hay over this with the USPS - I am confident there's a strong case against it. (Like I have the means to do so!) One also has to wonder about FedEx's deepest drives. They signed this to get the contract, in a way it is perhaps telling about what they think about U.S. citizens rights to work in their own country. Good luck getting hired by FedEx or anyone if it is found you are the one who filed such a lawsuit. Wonderful career Chapter XXIV.

EXPAT1
02-14-2013, 07:49 AM
This comes up quite often in the FED EX forums. Remember it has nothing to do with your tax filing and not where you keep an address, it is where you have resided, ie physically stayed.

At FedEx it depends on where you resided while flying for a foreign airline.
Candidates for jobs involving handling or access to U.S. mail cannot be considered for employment if they have resided outside the U.S., Guam or Puerto Rico for more than (6) six months during the last (5) years prior to today's date, other than the following verifiable exceptions: active duty in the U.S. Uniformed Service; trailing spouse or dependent of someone working for the U.S. government (military or civilian); missionary; student attending school in a foreign country; Peace Corps participant; employee of a U.S. based employer/company or other extraordinary circumstances.

chazbird
02-14-2013, 08:08 AM
Thanks for the embedded statement. In my case I can't figure out whether I qualify or disqualify or not. There needs to be a definition of "resided". Otherwise it sounds as if it is open to interpretation.

FedEx is hiring pilots (at least some). Are they hiring U.S. consular officials to fly the mail? Are they hiring missionary's? No, but they are hiring pilot's, pilot's who may have flown the same type of equipment, and especially have flown in international operations, something FedEx no doubt considers valuable experience they'd seek. There's a case against this, US citizen anti-discrimination, and just common sense fairness.

It is important to try to bring this to light, lawsuit or not. Am I ax grinding again? Maybe. But there's a portion in law making that relies on "precedent". If this sets some sort of precedent one can only wonder what examples might follow.

HIFLYR
02-14-2013, 09:34 AM
Thanks for the embedded statement. In my case I can't figure out whether I qualify or disqualify or not. There needs to be a definition of "resided". Otherwise it sounds as if it is open to interpretation.

Really this is pretty easy as I have pointed out just send a email and tell them your situation. Guess what they will respond with a answer. [email protected]

captjns
02-14-2013, 11:18 AM
At the end of the day, FED EX has two choices.

Drop the US Postal Contract so future applicants won't be insulted or put off. Revenues decrease, possible furloughs, not just the airline side of the operation, stock shares decline in value. That being said, future recruitment may be way down the road. Not to mention to businesses and families around Memphis, and other large hubs that rely on FED EX for a job.

On the flip side, FED EX can continue to be a viable operation and abide by their current requirement:
Candidates for jobs involving handling or access to U.S. mail cannot be considered for employment if they have resided outside the U.S., Guam or Puerto Rico for more than (6) six months during the last (5) years prior to today's date, other than the following verifiable exceptions: active duty in the U.S. Uniformed Service; trailing spouse or dependent of someone working for the U.S. government (military or civilian); missionary; student attending school in a foreign country; Peace Corps participant; employee of a U.S. based employer/company or other extraordinary circumstances.

Which route do you think FED EX is going to take?

The Dominican
02-14-2013, 11:24 AM
This comes up quite often in the FED EX forums. Remember it has nothing to do with your tax filing and not where you keep an address, it is where you have resided, ie physically stayed.
So FedEx has never hired any pilot working for another worldwide US cargo carrier? Many of my friends that are working at let's say Kallita,
Spend more than 6 months away from the US a year!

Spin
02-14-2013, 12:12 PM
One of the exceptions is if you are a student attending school in a foreing country.
You just have to enroll in a university in the country you are in. Easy.

EXPAT1
02-14-2013, 12:44 PM
So FedEx has never hired any pilot working for another worldwide US cargo carrier? Many of my friends that are working at let's say Kallita,
Spend more than 6 months away from the US a year!

The way I see it is Kalitta pilots would qualify as they are employed by a US based company whereas Air Japan pilots would not. IMHOO.

The Dominican
02-14-2013, 12:55 PM
That is not what you said, you stated that it was the time where you were physically at! Meaning that any pilot that spends more than 15 days flying international routes doesn't qualify. The way you see it is irrelevant, what constitute physical residence is the key here.

I would like to hear from a pilot who has actually been denied the opportunity to interview because their physical address was determined to be outside of the US, while working for a job where they traveled to the US on occasion, not for 14 days a month like I am home, but somebody that is on a 6 weeks on and 2 weeks off, while on a hotel at base and hotels while traveling, what constitutes that individual physical address? Until I don't hear from somebody with first hand experience, this is all just Internet chatter!

HIFLYR
02-14-2013, 01:27 PM
That is not what you said, you stated that it was the time where you were physically at! Meaning that any pilot that spends more than 15 days flying international routes doesn't qualify. The way you see it is irrelevant, what constitute physical residence is the key here.

I would like to hear from a pilot who has actually been denied the opportunity to interview because their physical address was determined to be outside of the US, while working for a job where they traveled to the US on occasion, not for 14 days a month like I am home, but somebody that is on a 6 weeks on and 2 weeks off, while on a hotel at base and hotels while traveling, what constitutes that individual physical address? Until I don't hear from somebody with first hand experience, this is all just Internet chatter!

Relax Francis it has been clearly defined for you it is "residency" not physical address etc. if unsure or your situation send the email or you can just continue to complain.

The Dominican
02-14-2013, 01:30 PM
"The way I see it is Kalitta pilots would qualify as they are employed by a US based company"
A very good friend of mine is a captain on the 400 at Kalitta, he lives in Punta Cana, doesn't own any property in the US, doesn't have a car nor any of his family are in the US. He just commutes back to work and goes off on his tour around the world, when he gets back commutes back to Punta Cana. So he qualifies because he works for a US based company? I don't think so!

The Dominican
02-14-2013, 01:38 PM
Relax Francis it has been clearly defined for you it is "residency" not physical address etc. if unsure or your situation send the email or you can just continue to complain.

What gave you the idea that I am not relaxed, or slightly bothered or affected by this? It doesn't concern me the one bit! I'm just curious as to what the actual policy is and how it is implemented.

You say it is residency? OK what determines residency then? Some are claiming that it is time physically spent in one place and I don't think that is correct. Like I said, a pilot that works at EK is clearly living in Dubai, his family is there, he has his house there, car, kids going to school etc. even if that pilot flies nothing but US trips and spends more nights a year in the US, his residency is Dubai!

But in the other hand, you have a pilot that works for a Chinese contract of 6weeks on and 2 weeks off, his car, house, wife and kids are in the US, his bank account etc. although he spends more time outside of the US a year, his residency is in the US!

HIFLYR
02-14-2013, 02:06 PM
What gave you the idea that I am not relaxed, or slightly bothered or affected by this? It doesn't concern me the one bit! I'm just curious as to what the actual policy is and how it is implemented.

You say it is residency? OK what determines residency then? Some are claiming that it is time physically spent in one place and I don't think that is correct. Like I said, a pilot that works at EK is clearly living in Dubai, his family is there, he has his house there, car, kids going to school etc. even if that pilot flies nothing but US trips and spends more nights a year in the US, his residency is Dubai!

But in the other hand, you have a pilot that works for a Chinese contract of 6weeks on and 2 weeks off, his car, house, wife and kids are in the US, his bank account etc. although he spends more time outside of the US a year, his residency is in the US!

What determines residency? Well since FedEx is hiring you that would be FedEx and their requirement with the USPS. Anyone can use the link to ask FedEx if they qualify or not; or you can rely on someones internet opinion.

The Dominican
02-14-2013, 02:20 PM
What determines residency? Well since FedEx is hiring you that would be FedEx and their requirement with the USPS. Anyone can use the link to ask FedEx if they qualify or not; or you can rely on someones internet opinion.
Thank you, my point exactly! The whole notion about automatically not qualifying if you work for a foreighn airline is just Internet chatter, I agree!

chazbird
02-14-2013, 06:03 PM
[email protected] (whom it seems is associated with FedEx in someway) got back to me pretty rapidly with an answer. They said no, I did not qualify. I resided outside for more than 6 months in the last 5 years. Even if I came back every three months (as I did) the total time of the contract had me out of the country more than 6 months (it did). Nothing to do with taxes, address, home address, bank accounts in US, etc. Again, I am not necessarily peeved at FedEx, but the morons who thought this up and put it in a contract. What about FedEx pilots who "reside" in, for example, CGN? Maybe they don't fly USPS material? One thinks they probably receive it from the USA and then distribute it. Ah, but they already have a job at FedEx, even though they reside outside the USA. Maybe if you bid CGN and then bid back to the USA, then what happens, 5 years off with pay?

Its a moron-paranoid "rule". Fed Ex is generally a very smart company, so its no wonder they never bothered to object to this - how can you counter imbecilic anti-terrorist laws such as this?

chazbird
02-14-2013, 06:05 PM
Oh, I forgot, FedEx is a US based company.

The Dominican
02-15-2013, 04:53 AM
Thank you for the clarification, good luck with your search elsewhere!

My apologies to those whom I might have come across a little abrasive during this exchange!

Flydaplane
02-15-2013, 06:54 PM
Any of you foreign based guys know if they'll touch an ex DC9 and MD80 FO (currently flying BE1900's)? I've got about 5000 TT 1100 pic turbine but no jet PIC. I've had LASIK so I guess all the Japan stuff is out of the question still?

EXPAT1
02-15-2013, 09:23 PM
Oh, I forgot, FedEx is a US based company.

Yes this is the key point a US based Company and not a foreign based airline and the point of having resided for more than 6 months in a 5 year period.

Candidates for jobs involving handling or access to U.S. mail cannot be considered for employment if they have resided outside the U.S., Guam or Puerto Rico for more than (6) six months during the last (5) years prior to today's date, other than the following verifiable exceptions: active duty in the U.S. Uniformed Service; trailing spouse or dependent of someone working for the U.S. government (military or civilian); missionary; student attending school in a foreign country; Peace Corps participant; employee of a U.S. based employer/company or other extraordinary circumstances.

The Dominican
02-16-2013, 03:21 AM
Any of you foreign based guys know if they'll touch an ex DC9 and MD80 FO (currently flying BE1900's)? I've got about 5000 TT 1100 pic turbine but no jet PIC. I've had LASIK so I guess all the Japan stuff is out of the question still?

There is a waiver for LASIK with the JCAB, but it will take sponsorship from the company to get it done, I don't know of anybody who has done it to be honest with you. I would suggest to contact the contract agencies and ask them what is involved in the process.

Probe
02-22-2013, 08:02 PM
The Fedex residency rule is a pain, but it is the rule. It is a security clearance issue.

The US mail carries classified documents. "Secret" goes regular mail. One level up goes registered mail. Fedex does a level above this. Somebody has to do a fairly high level background check. Some government nazi decided to set a limit on foreign residence. Above this the security background check costs a lot more money. A LOT.

If you are flying for Polar, and spend 20 days overseas, no worries. You are flying for a US company, on a US flagged aircraft. Essentially your aircraft is a little slice of America flying at 8 miles a minute and the Captain is the US authority on that aircraft.

If you are flying for Sichuan Airlines but kept a US address - well, not so much.

They are doing a very high level security clearance on you. If you lie, they will find out. 20 years ago they might have spent weeks vetting you for the clearance. In the days of the internet, it will take them 12 seconds to find out that you were a Captain for a foreign airline.

I can't apply to Fedex either.

As far as the rest of it, try to get your contract agency to help, if they are willing. Other than that, you flying mates.

I just came back to my old job in the US. I was shocked at the government forms I had to fill out.

I also had another nasty-gram waiting for me. It seems the tax nazi arm of our government claims that flight time over international waters (and airspace) counts as US income. I looked it up and it does. Luckily only a couple percent of one job was over water, and the next job was domestic only. That was a new one on me.

oicur12
02-23-2013, 07:34 AM
"try to get your contract agency to help"

It turns out the agency is just as un helpful as the airline. They wont issue a letter of no incident/no accident either. Crazy stuff because its the first thing they ask for if you want a contract job.

Probe - were you with Sichuan?

Thanks for all of the info folks.

Probe
02-23-2013, 03:09 PM
BCA.

The company was registered in PEK, but I was based in Sanya. I tried about 6 months prior to the end of contract to get a no criminal record letter from the local PSB. They said I had to do it in PEK as that is where I got my work visa. I tried in PEK, and they started asking me questions about how i could have a PEK work visa and not be working and living in PEK. I politely excused myself.

They I asked the company to ask the CAAC for an official no accident letter. The CAAC's answer was "we don't do that".

Luckily I have a legacy job to go back to for a while. Without that China might be a dead end for a contract pilot career, even when you finish you contract on good terms.

fiveninerzero
02-23-2013, 09:05 PM
"Secret" goes regular mail. One level up goes registered mail.

Confidential goes Registered Mail. Secret goes Certified Mail. TS cannot be mailed, it is hand transported by courier only.

Probe
02-24-2013, 08:05 AM
Sorry you are right. It has been a long time since I got out. I believe the couriers is what drives the Fedex residency requirement.



Confidential goes Registered Mail. Secret goes Certified Mail. TS cannot be mailed, it is hand transported by courier only.