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View Full Version : Best Contract Job?


pilotrob23
07-28-2013, 04:50 AM
Just wondering, and maybe I should go to pprune and ask as well, but any ideas for contract jobs abroad. Commuting, pay, days off, equipment...? I wonder if this might be the future for big money for pilots? It seems if there is a pilot shortage in any manner, these contracts for heavy equipment might get pretty good. Fly safe all!


oicur12
07-28-2013, 07:41 AM
"I wonder if this might be the future for big money for pilots?"

Yes, it sure will be. A trade between job security and no protection will be made for a big salary.

mike734
07-28-2013, 02:41 PM
I've answered a few want ads for 737ng captains but the pay is too low at 10k -14k. When I tell them I want 20k/mo they stop talking ��

Some day they will stay on the line and I'll know it's time to start thinking about it.


Skytrash99
07-28-2013, 03:14 PM
Jobs with big pay are available mainly in the Middle East and China. Going to Qatar, Etihad or Emirates would be a good option, but the Pay is not all that great initially when you are a FO... But packages are pretty attractive and quick upgrades are relatively quick. I'm in Saudi Arabia as a E-190 Capt. My pay is between 14-18k per month on a 6/3 Rotation. China has similar contracts with better commuting options. If you have a 320 Type.. you are golden as so many well paying companies are desperately seeking those guys. This type of work will really do a number on you. I've done 2 years and am eager to get back to the States.. Hoping on US Airways. Fingers crossed.

Good Luck

EXPAT1
07-30-2013, 02:34 AM
First question is what is your experience level, aircraft types, hours flown, etc. then maybe we can give you a few pointers. The best jobs vary widely as they offer different things for different people. Your age and family situation is also important and whether you plan on living in a foreign country or just commuting. Best of Luck.

PotatoChip
07-30-2013, 07:32 AM
Just wondering, and maybe I should go to pprune and ask as well, but any ideas for contract jobs abroad. Commuting, pay, days off, equipment...? I wonder if this might be the future for big money for pilots? It seems if there is a pilot shortage in any manner, these contracts for heavy equipment might get pretty good. Fly safe all!

This is too broad of a question. MOST of the contract jobs are airframe specific and require time in type, so what are you looking for?

pilotrob23
07-30-2013, 08:15 AM
I am on the 777 in Dubai, and a few of the Captains I have flown with are looking at west coast commuting jobs. I haven't seen really anything that is that attractive, but that might change in the foreseeable future. But any contract job really, commuting or not. Take care

EXPAT1
07-31-2013, 12:09 AM
Obviously your best bet is to stay at your current job and get the upgrade. I know the ME carriers have slowed down but still stick it out and wait for your turn. The next phase after you upgrade will vary a lot depending upon family situation and what you enjoy. Historically the 2 best ExPat jobs have been Korean Air and Air Japan. These jobs provide good pay and the ability to commute. There is some baggage with both jobs and they aren't as good as they used to be but still considered the premium ExPat pilot positions. The medicals in Japan are extremely difficult and initial training at Korean can make things quite challenging. The highest paying jobs as an ExPat are now in China on the A-320 but closely followed by the B-737NG. Many contracts are close to or right at 20K per month now. Some are commuting and some are not. China has its own set of unique problems though and will present challenges. Another consideration is long haul vs. short haul flying. Most pilots prefer the long haul but the time away from family presents problems with family life. I have a 2 year old so I stay flying short haul in China as I am home most nights while working and work a commuting contract of 44 days on and 16 days off. The larger aircraft in China typically will pay less but are better for older pilots without children. China Southern is now offering foreign bases are Air China on the 777 and A-330. Best of Luck!

hoover
08-07-2013, 12:49 PM
Anyone have any experience with the 777 for china southern? I am looking at the contract with bases in CVG, AMS. How much is out and backs or are you flying around for a week and then in base for a while?

Kapitanleutnant
08-22-2013, 04:11 AM
This topic comes up frequently the past year or so....

While I hate to a admit it, I'd have to say Emirates is probably the one of the better options right now. While there are many facets to the whole package, most western expats seem to equate the pay as the only comparison.... because you've never had anything offered any differently. The mind is like a parachute.... works best when it's OPEN!

When you put the free housing, free utilities, no tax taken out, free medical, free meds when prescribed by doctor for long term, free uniform, free cleaning of uniform, ride to and from all flights and sim periods... you realize your overhead is extremely low and you can save pretty good coin and I'd feel good comparing my salary at Emirates with any US carrier wide body captain at the end of the month after my bills are paid and his bills are paid!! My colleagues and I have done this calculation more than a few times and each time, the salary with the paid benefits of Emirates are equal to the salary package at any western carrier!

But along with this is a way of life and rules that most expats would rather not deal with or flat out won't agree with. I tell my mates back home that coming to Emirates is akin to "selling your soul to the devil."

The flying is great, the people you'd fly with are great, the planes are immaculate and seldom ever have any MEL's. Maintenance is very good. The training here is getting much better but still very different from most other airlines. They just don't know that yet here....!! You are absolutely on your own at Emirates.... not much help at all. All up to you to find the myriad of answers that are strewn all over the books.

Emirates does not offer to or attempt to make anything easier for the crew. Other airlines will often times put a book together for its crews on say... ETOPS over the Atlantic as a quick guide for everything you'd need and want to know about ETOPS. At Emirates, that kind of thinking is effectively banned as we're not even allowed to have iPads as a reference on the airplane!!

My two cents are this: As an expat job, Emirates is great flying. As a way of and a quality of life, I'd highly recommend going elsewhere.. but don't think you'll find it anywhere but the US/Australia/Canada.... if they're hiring!

IMO

K

PS..... Trust me when I say I'm not an advocate for Emirates. I tell my colleagues from the home country to look elsewhere. But... I'll stick to the fact that Emirates is probably one of the best contracts out there all said and done.

The Dominican
08-22-2013, 07:01 AM
The contract market is developing very fast, T&C'S are changing and improving weekly it seems, there aren't very many non-type rated opportunities out there still but even that is starting to develop as well, the next decade will be very interesting with the US in the upswing and the EU not far behind, I know....I know! The EU is as gloomy as it gets right now, that is true! But it is also true, that all the destruction of the western economies that were predicted between 08/10 didn't materialized, I believe that a resurgence of the EU's economy along with the US, driven by the appetite for goods from the east and the emerging economies, will result in more pilot jobs worldwide that we will know what to do with...!

Probe
08-23-2013, 04:44 AM
KaptLt;
I only agree with about half of what you said. I think for the right individual, Emirates can be a great deal. What is the right person?

Maybe 30-40, married with kids. Kids go to world class schools free. You get a 3-7 year path to wide body Capt.

Flying? Some is great. Doing nothing but India turns at night? Maybe not so much.

It is non-commuting.

It is not for me, and many others. I have never given it a second thought. But for some............good deal.

ANA has probably been the best deal long term. Lots of money, and time off. The biggest negative is that it is a 767. Great plane, I have many thousands of hours in 75/76. But for a contract pilot it is a bit of a dead end right now. There are very few opportunities now, and for the past few years.

A couple of the Chinese jobs are OK as well, with huge money, tax paid locally. If you are a US citizen, you will not only not owe any US tax, you earn foreign tax credits for future US taxes.

If Emirates was a commuting contract I might have considered it. If I was 32 with kids in school - same.

The best contract job? I guess it is up to the individual. I am back at my legacy carrier in the US, planning my escape back to the contract world. This time for good.

Kapitanleutnant
08-27-2013, 09:27 AM
Probe...

You make some valid points but I don't think ANA pays for all the extra's that Emirates pays does it? Maybe it does and I'm not aware of it.

My colleagues and I have figured out several times that the total overall Emirates package is worth about 200K all said and done when everything is included. Does ANA have that total package for it's pilots? Just curious as to the upgrade time for FO's there. I really don't know.....

I realize there are some intangibles in the equation like rostering, how the company treats you, training and other things that are hard to quantify.

Kap

The Dominican
08-27-2013, 02:57 PM
My colleagues and I have figured out several times that the total overall Emirates package is worth about 200K all said and done when everything is included. Does ANA have that total package for it's pilots? Just curious as to the upgrade time for FO's there. I really don't know.....

Career Opportunities (http://tbe.taleo.net/CH07/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=HACS&cws=2&rid=12)

There are the T&C'S, time for upgrade is running at about the 4 year mark right now. Pretty stable roster with 14 days in a row (but that includes your commuting days) business class confirmed ticket and you keep the miles, or 2,000 additional in pay and you buy your own (ZED/Ticket) flying about 55-60 hours a month with a mix of freighter and passenger flights. But you do the work on the venerable 76:D
Lots of rumors but here is a rumor of my own, when ANA parks the last 787 in the dessert, they'll bring the crew back to Japan on a 76;)

EXPAT1
08-27-2013, 06:48 PM
Good discussion and comparison of Emirates and Air Japan. Looking at the numbers you can have all the cushy benefits but be stuck in the ME with housing, retirement, education for kids and a driver for work at Emirates, making about 12K per month, flying 110 hours and paid for 90 hard time. If you go with Air Japan you have 17K per month and commute back to your residence in home country with 12 days off per month flying 55 hours. It is truly a personal choice comparing days off in home country or living with family and not commuting with all the benefits in the ME. Both great options just different strokes for different folks. Disclaimer: I am using approximate data.

The Dominican
08-27-2013, 07:44 PM
Different strokes for different folks indeed....! You can't just use a spread sheet with T&C'S on it and make a decision based on that, there are too many variables of tax liabilities, lifestyle changes (having all your days off in a row vs. coming home for less days but more often) your loved ones adjusting at a life abroad vs. adjusting at life at home with you gone for 17 days in a row, ease or difficult commute, many factors will influence your job satisfaction on the long run, many guys base their decisions on only pay or type of A/C, then working in China making 22/M and flying brand new equipment sounds pretty good until you try to adjust at being 6 on and 2 off, others move their family there and are very happy. Spread sheets don't paint the whole picture, you have to sit with your better half and determine what's best for YOU! not what's the best job.

Kapitanleutnant
08-28-2013, 04:37 AM
Yep... Those "intangibles I was talking about.

They more often than not make or break a decision.

Kap

Finnley
08-28-2013, 02:08 PM
Dom

How recent is the 'Career Opportunities' link that you posted in #14.
Thanks

BlueHenFR8Dawg
08-28-2013, 07:02 PM
Dom

How recent is the 'Career Opportunities' link that you posted in #14.
Thanks

If Dom posted it, it must be current, but here is the link to all jobs via CReW.
http://www.crewresourcesworldwide.com/positions.htm

skypine27
08-29-2013, 11:58 PM
I have a group friends (from the USA) who left and are on the 767 at ANA/JP Express (I think they are one contract now).

They seem to like it.

History of them:
Skywest CRJ Capt, went to ANA pax side as a 737 capt. Did it for X years, then went to 767 Capt where you fly both pax and cargo

Furloughed AA FO:
Went to ANA 767 FO, freight side. Upgraded to CA and now flies both pax and freight, as they are "one" operation now.

Skywest CRJ Capt:
Same as above AA FO, Went to ANA 767 FO, freight side. Upgraded to CA and now flies both pax and freight, as they are "one" operation now. Got sick of "it" and came back to the USA as a Virgin American FO. He saved a LOT of money while working for ANA though....

Furloughed ATA 757 Capt:
Went to NCA Cargo (diff company) as a 747-400 FO. Upgraded to 747-400 Capt after XX years. Still there. Thought about quitting for FedEx while he was still an FO at NCA. Now that he is a capt, I dont think he'd quit for anywhere.

Seems ANA and NCA are good contract gigs.

oicur12
08-30-2013, 06:26 AM
Several EX AN guys in Air Japan that i know love it and the one I know of who quit regretted it soon after. Good gig.

The Dominican
08-30-2013, 08:19 AM
Enough with this AJX love fest alright.....! At some point I want to get improved T&C'S......! LOL

zombiepilot
08-30-2013, 01:25 PM
...best contract? marry the right woman!

jrmyl
08-30-2013, 05:04 PM
Enough with this AJX love fest alright.....! At some point I want to get improved T&C'S......! LOL

I agree. We need to at least have a pay scale equal to the Chinese contracts. I would also like to see the 14 days be a standard days off plus the regular vacation time. I can dream right? :rolleyes:

Controlled Rest
08-31-2013, 12:23 AM
Dom,

Have they hired any DECs lately or has it all been upgrades?

1bdun
08-31-2013, 04:57 AM
I am not Dom nor am I as smart as him. With that said, I can count three DECs in the past eleven months. But all were JCAB licensed and over 60, one CA from ANK (ANA 737 domestic) and two former JAL 767 CAs.

Disclaimer: I have counted wrong before.

OB Pilot
08-31-2013, 05:19 AM
Does LASIK surgery disqualify you from flying for Air Japan?

The Dominican
08-31-2013, 09:33 AM
Does LASIK surgery disqualify you from flying for Air Japan?
This question comes up often here, my best recommendation is to refer it to the contract companies. There is a waiver with the JCAB but I imagine that you will need backing from the company to get the paperwork through and quiet frankly, I don't know nor have heard of anybody being given such waiver here at AJX (if someone else knows of a case....!) for what I hear from folks bringing this up with the contract agencies is that they just say that it isn't accepted....! Sorry for the bad news.

1bdun I am not Dom nor am I as smart as him.


Smart is not something that people that knows me would accuse me off LOL! If not, ask my wife, I'm sure she's got plenty of evidence to the contrary:D

DEC's.... As 1bdun said, there have been a couple but mostly the courses are being filled by upgrades. Thus far, they have been pretty consistent with the upgrade courses, that of course doesn't mean everyone is making it through the upgrade course, there is the occasional bust:mad:

OB Pilot
09-01-2013, 07:42 AM
This question comes up often here, my best recommendation is to refer it to the contract companies. There is a waiver with the JCAB but I imagine that you will need backing from the company to get the paperwork through and quiet frankly, I don't know nor have heard of anybody being given such waiver here at AJX (if someone else knows of a case....!) for what I hear from folks bringing this up with the contract agencies is that they just say that it isn't accepted....! Sorry for the bad news.



Smart is not something that people that knows me would accuse me off LOL! If not, ask my wife, I'm sure she's got plenty of evidence to the contrary:D

DEC's.... As 1bdun said, there have been a couple but mostly the courses are being filled by upgrades. Thus far, they have been pretty consistent with the upgrade courses, that of course doesn't mean everyone is making it through the upgrade course, there is the occasional bust:mad:

Dom, thanks for the response, we can always count on you for timely and accurate information.

emb145
09-01-2013, 05:45 PM
If Dom posted it, it must be current, but here is the link to all jobs via CReW.
Positions (http://www.crewresourcesworldwide.com/positions.htm)

I've applied for this a couple of times when I've seen it open on the CREW site but don't seem to get any hits or traction. What's the secret to getting them to notice you?

1bdun
09-02-2013, 04:42 AM
We all can surmise certain groups AJX is looking for as well as weeding out. Unlike most other job opportunities, you can actually call the recruiter at CReW and ask. You may not like the answer, but at least you won't be left in the dark.

Disclaimer: I have been wrong before.

tailendcharlie
09-03-2013, 08:55 AM
..... If you have a 320 Type.. you are golden as so many well paying companies are desperately seeking those guys......

Good Luck

A 320 type and are a current Captain with at least 500 PIC on type - then you're golden.

gasnhaul
09-18-2013, 10:03 PM
I have a group friends (from the USA) who left and are on the 767 at ANA/JP Express (I think they are one contract now).

They seem to like it.

History of them:
Skywest CRJ Capt, went to ANA pax side as a 737 capt. Did it for X years, then went to 767 Capt where you fly both pax and cargo

Furloughed AA FO:
Went to ANA 767 FO, freight side. Upgraded to CA and now flies both pax and freight, as they are "one" operation now.

Skywest CRJ Capt:
Same as above AA FO, Went to ANA 767 FO, freight side. Upgraded to CA and now flies both pax and freight, as they are "one" operation now. Got sick of "it" and came back to the USA as a Virgin American FO. He saved a LOT of money while working for ANA though....

Furloughed ATA 757 Capt:
Went to NCA Cargo (diff company) as a 747-400 FO. Upgraded to 747-400 Capt after XX years. Still there. Thought about quitting for FedEx while he was still an FO at NCA. Now that he is a capt, I dont think he'd quit for anywhere.

Seems ANA and NCA are good contract gigs.

Good info for sure! Just curious...I'm actually applying for an NCA position right now and was wondering about the upgrade. XX years upgrade as in over 10? I guess the contract is being worked on right now so the details aren't all available, but it sounds like a pretty good gig, especially if the upgrade time is decent.

Gas

gasnhaul
09-18-2013, 10:08 PM
Enough with this AJX love fest alright.....! At some point I want to get improved T&C'S......! LOL

Dom,

This is from the website...

Crew Resources Worldwide is now accepting application for First Officers for assignment to Air Japan ( ANA Group) on the B767-300ER. AJX operates a fleet of B767 freighters with routes from China, Korea, Japan and North America. This is a combination of passenger and freight operations with crews based in Narita, Japan. All candidates should seriously consider how they will plan to commute from their home country to Japan during the term of the contract.

I was under the impression it shouldn't be a big deal with the business class or $2000 allowance. Just wondering why they have that listed like this since it seems to be covered.

Thanks!

Gas

The Dominican
09-19-2013, 11:17 AM
XX years upgrade as in over 10?

I don't work for NCA mind you, but I do put a lot of overtime drinking with them hoodlums:D for what I understand, the upgrade at NCA will come at the second contract, 5 year mark. But I would like one of the NCA guys to verify the information....!

I was under the impression it shouldn't be a big deal with the business class or $2000 allowance. Just wondering why they have that listed like this since it seems to be covered.

Because it is Japan...! All the boxes must be marked...! LOL!

On a serious note. Yes, they will get you a confirmed business class ticket anywhere in the world but to be honest, anything over two sectors is just impractical, they have had experiences with guys living in remote places like some island in Greece, where they needed 4 sectors to get to work and home, that was just plain crazy, lots of miss connections and the likes. That is what they mean with that statement. Two pilots with the same résumé, one commuting from San Fran, JFK, HNL, Amsterdam for example ( a direct flight, one sector on ANA) and another living in let's say, La Patagonia in Argentina, they logically would be interested (with all things considered) in the guy that would be easier to get to work and take back home, the guy that lives in La Patagonia will be in two sectors before he can even connect to the flight on ANA that will take him/her to Narita..., And I can assure you that it has nothing to do with cost and all to do with lesser possibilities of a miss connect to get to work.
Make sense......?

gasnhaul
09-20-2013, 02:28 AM
Yessir it does, thank you for the info. I'd be commuting out of RSW so while it's not as preferable as say LAX or SFO it's not difficult to get to ATL or any other BIG airport to get a flight over.

And if any NCA bubbas are out there that can chime in on the upgrade or anything else for that matter, I'd like to hear from you as well.

Cheers!

Gas

atl55
09-20-2013, 06:30 AM
Upgrade time is currently at about 8 years, but upgrades stopped about 6 months ago because of all the training of new copilots. The rumor is they are suppose to start up again next year once they are finished with all the training. There are a bunch of airplanes coming but what happens with them really depends on what happens in the world freight market.