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Work2much
10-08-2017, 06:14 AM
LOL, any legitimacy to them lower the 3k and/or dropping the degree?


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As far as I understand it they'll be preferring a 4 year degree and lowering the preferred total time to a more "competitive number more in line with other carriers". So, yes.


ThePlaneSaidSo
10-08-2017, 02:02 PM
As far as I understand it they'll be preferring a 4 year degree and lowering the preferred total time to a more "competitive number more in line with other carriers". So, yes.



Wow, thanks!


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Qotsaautopilot
10-08-2017, 03:25 PM
I'm running into more and more pilots wondering when airlines are going to drop the 4 year degree. Just get one! Deep down I don't necessarily believe that a 4yr degree makes you successful or not in life but if you got into this career you knew that the good jobs required a degree.


rickair7777
10-08-2017, 03:37 PM
LOL, any legitimacy to them lower the 3k and/or dropping the degree?


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I can't imagine why any major would want pilots with less than 3K, unless they have 2K of fighter time. Typical for civilians seems more like 5K-9K these days.

echelon
10-08-2017, 05:28 PM
I can't imagine why any major would want pilots with less than 3K, unless they have 2K of fighter time.

Does 2000 hours of fighter time make someone better at flying a 737 with another pilot, than say, someone who has been flying regional jets for 2000 hours?

Ronin47
10-08-2017, 05:42 PM
I'm running into more and more pilots wondering when airlines are going to drop the 4 year degree. Just get one! Deep down I don't necessarily believe that a 4yr degree makes you successful or not in life but if you got into this career you knew that the good jobs required a degree.

Not everyone has $100,000 to **** away on student loans for a degree in basket weaving. I agree, If you have the time and money then by all means get a degree and educate yourself in something besides aviation. Anything, business, computers, management, etc. That being said. A degree never helped me land a large jet in a 30kt crosswind in a snowstorm at night. But apparently the airlines don't care. They want a degree over flight time and or experience. I'm sure their passengers would love to know that when the chips are down and the weather sucks that you have a 1,500 wonder boy in the right seat with a degree in Psychology.

full of luv
10-08-2017, 06:48 PM
Not everyone has $100,000 to **** away on student loans for a degree in basket weaving. I agree, If you have the time and money then by all means get a degree and educate yourself in something besides aviation. Anything, business, computers, management, etc. That being said. A degree never helped me land a large jet in a 30kt crosswind in a snowstorm at night. But apparently the airlines don't care. They want a degree over flight time and or experience. I'm sure their passengers would love to know that when the chips are down and the weather sucks that you have a 1,500 wonder boy in the right seat with a degree in Psychology.

Luckily in my state, you can stay at home and earn a degree from the state college in town for about $30K if you did nothing but take out loans, so the $100K seems a bit rich for a standard psychology degree.

rickair7777
10-08-2017, 07:21 PM
Does 2000 hours of fighter time make someone better at flying a 737 with another pilot, than say, someone who has been flying regional jets for 2000 hours?

Not necessarily in every case. But the lowest common denominator is MUCH higher in fighters than in RJ's, so it's more of a known quantity. The RJ guy will have a an advantage in 121 knowledge and perhaps crew coordination (but fighters rarely fly solo, their buddy is just 30+ feet away instead of three feet away). Fighter pilots are almost assuredly on the accomplished and motivated end of the personality spectrum, while regional pilots are all over the map on that.

Also fighter time is almost all busy time. 2000 hours in an RJ really means maybe 500 hours of flying and 1500 hours of USA today.

ShyGuy
10-08-2017, 07:22 PM
Not everyone has $100,000 to **** away on student loans for a degree in basket weaving. I agree, If you have the time and money then by all means get a degree and educate yourself in something besides aviation. Anything, business, computers, management, etc. That being said. A degree never helped me land a large jet in a 30kt crosswind in a snowstorm at night. But apparently the airlines don't care. They want a degree over flight time and or experience. I'm sure their passengers would love to know that when the chips are down and the weather sucks that you have a 1,500 wonder boy in the right seat with a degree in Psychology.


What a ridiculous argument. If you want to make arguments like that, I'd say that by skipping a 4-yr college degree you got a 4-yr headstart in an industry that is based on seniority. (As in you already leaped the rest of us 4 yrs with that gamble of a headstart).

Just get the degree. It's not 100k unless you want it to be. You can get it online and a fairly decent low cost.

ShyGuy
10-08-2017, 07:24 PM
Not necessarily in every case. But the lowest common denominator is MUCH higher in fighters than in RJ's, so it's more of a known quantity. The RJ guy will have a an advantage in 121 knowledge and perhaps crew coordination (but fighters rarely fly solo, their buddy is just 30+ feet away instead of three feet away). Fighter pilots are almost assuredly on the accomplished and motivated end of the personality spectrum, while regional pilots are all over the map on that.

Also fighter time is almost all busy time. 2000 hours in an RJ really means maybe 500 hours of flying and 1500 hours of USA today.

Plus, a 2000 hr fighter jet time means an entire career in the military. Fighter jet time doesn't add up that quick, or even close to how quick civilian RJ time adds up as.

echelon
10-08-2017, 07:27 PM
Fighter pilots are almost assuredly on the accomplished and motivated end of the personality spectrum, while regional pilots are all over the map on that.

That's a good point

Peacock
10-08-2017, 08:35 PM
Does 2000 hours of fighter time make someone better at flying a 737 with another pilot, than say, someone who has been flying regional jets for 2000 hours?
Hahahahahahahaha

waterboy
10-08-2017, 10:16 PM
Not everyone has $100,000 to **** away on student loans for a degree in basket weaving. I agree, If you have the time and money then by all means get a degree and educate yourself in something besides aviation. Anything, business, computers, management, etc. That being said. A degree never helped me land a large jet in a 30kt crosswind in a snowstorm at night. But apparently the airlines don't care. They want a degree over flight time and or experience. I'm sure their passengers would love to know that when the chips are down and the weather sucks that you have a 1,500 wonder boy in the right seat with a degree in Psychology.

Just get the degree or enjoy life an airline that doesnít require one. Donít ***** because an airline has a standard and you donít meet them. I went to a state university and it was only $2,000 a year in tuition. Keep making excuses about how itís $100k, and I can see why you donít have a degree.

OCCP
10-08-2017, 10:52 PM
The old college degree topic strikes again. If you want a job at the big D, get a degree. If you donít and you have less than 3k TT, welcome to the second tier airlines!

We all know a degree has no bearing on flying skills, itís just a requirement for some companies. Heck, if I remember correctly the CA from 3407 had a degree.....

jtsastre
10-08-2017, 11:10 PM
Plus, wouldnít anyone whoís anyone want to educate themselves in something. I agree that the degree doesnít matter, but at the very least, youíre learning.

My 7-year-old doesnít want to go to school, should I tell him it doesnít matter?

PNWFlyer
10-09-2017, 07:01 AM
I'm running into more and more pilots wondering when airlines are going to drop the 4 year degree. Just get one! Deep down I don't necessarily believe that a 4yr degree makes you successful or not in life but if you got into this career you knew that the good jobs required a degree.

What is worse is United and delta that do not just want a 4 year degree but also a 3.0 GPA or greater.

ImperialxRat
10-09-2017, 02:06 PM
What is worse is United and delta that do not just want a 4 year degree but also a 3.0 GPA or greater.

How dare they! Also they want that degree completed in 4 years, not 5.

GearBoy
10-09-2017, 07:01 PM
For somebody who has moved on from AS it is pretty classless of you to return to an Alaska forum to lecture, berate, chastise and humiliate the Alaska pilot group over perceived negotiating weaknesses that existed while you were here. While some of your points are valid, now is not the time to spew your venom at a pilot group that A: You were once apart of and B: Put a very solid foot forward in the current negotiating cycle who's outcome is to be decided by a third party. You've moved on, this is no longer your fight.

Wynncompany,

I understand. No one likes to hear that their baby is ugly.

It's very simple. IMO, Nothing's changed there, at Alaskan Airways. The very fact that Alaska is yet again beholden to arbitration says it all. IMHO, Alaska would have already had a negotiated contract if during negotiations:

Alaska pilots did not fly Premium/VSA/time-and-a-half
Alaska pilots did not sell back vacation
Alaska pilots did not work on vacation
Alaska pilots did not work on days off
Alaska pilots did not build their lines up to 117 max

It's an unwritten rule that you do not do things like these during negotiations. Jeff Parker @ American did not do the "right thing" out of the goodness of his heart. He saw the writing on the wall. American pilots spelled it out to him.

You are only as strong as your union. What people forget is that the Union is not an MEC or a negotiating committee. The Union is the pilot in the seat next to you. If he or she is flying premium or VSA during negotiations, the Union is weak. By that definition, the union at Alaska is VERY, VERY weak, then and still now.

Companies, including Alaska, only understand a few things. They understand canceled flights, delayed flights, and increased training costs due to pilots leaving for greener pastures. Right or wrong, you do not get the contract you deserve. You get the contract you demand. Right or wrong, it is the reality under the RLA. (BTW, Where are the completion and on-time rates at Alaska? At Virgin?)

No, things have NOT changed at Alaska. It's the same thing all over again.

No matter the outcome of your arbitration, it'll only decide a few items. Alaska pilots will still be stuck with the same crappy work rules and lack of QoL at an airline with the longest list of unsettled grievances. They'll be facing openers in just two years, openers and section six negotiations with the same disingenuous approach from management.

As far as your ad hominem attacks against me, I will not respond in kind. I never have gone there. I will not start now. I refuse to stoop. However, in response to your latest attack, I will only repeat along the lines of what I said last time:

Take a deep breath. Take another bite of your PayDay candy bar and wash it down with another swig of Kool-aid. Heck, finish them both. Alaska has plenty more where that came from; because, Brad Tilden, the Cooch and Tom Kemp love you long time.

Lastly, Don't worry about me. Living well is the best revenge.

Thrill
10-09-2017, 09:05 PM
Yeah, that about covers it.


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HangOn
10-09-2017, 09:36 PM
Wynncompany,

I understand. No one likes to hear that their baby is ugly.

It's very simple. IMO, Nothing's changed there, at Alaskan Airways. The very fact that Alaska is yet again beholden to arbitration says it all. IMHO, Alaska would have already had a negotiated contract if during negotiations:

Alaska pilots did not fly Premium/VSA/time-and-a-half
Alaska pilots did not sell back vacation
Alaska pilots did not work on vacation
Alaska pilots did not work on days off
Alaska pilots did not build their lines up to 117 max

It's an unwritten rule that you do not do things like these during negotiations. Jeff Parker @ American did not do the "right thing" out of the goodness of his heart. He saw the writing on the wall. American pilots spelled it out to him.

You are only as strong as your union. What people forget is that the Union is not an MEC or a negotiating committee. The Union is the pilot in the seat next to you. If he or she is flying premium or VSA during negotiations, the Union is weak. By that definition, the union at Alaska is VERY, VERY weak, then and still now.

Companies, including Alaska, only understand a few things. They understand canceled flights, delayed flights, and increased training costs due to pilots leaving for greener pastures. Right or wrong, you do not get the contract you deserve. You get the contract you demand. Right or wrong, it is the reality under the RLA. (BTW, Where are the completion and on-time rates at Alaska? At Virgin?)

No, things have NOT changed at Alaska. It's the same thing all over again.

No matter the outcome of your arbitration, it'll only decide a few items. Alaska pilots will still be stuck with the same crappy work rules and lack of QoL at an airline with the longest list of unsettled grievances. They'll be facing openers in just two years, openers and section six negotiations with the same disingenuous approach from management.

As far as your ad hominem attacks against me, I will not respond in kind. I never have gone there. I will not start now. I refuse to stoop. However, in response to your latest attack, I will only repeat along the lines of what I said last time:

Take a deep breath. Take another bite of your PayDay candy bar and wash it down with another swig of Kool-aid. Heck, finish them both. Alaska has plenty more where that came from; because, Brad Tilden, the Cooch and Tom Kemp love you long time.

Lastly, Don't worry about me. Living well is the best revenge.



Yep^^^^^^^^^😩

Speed Pilot
10-10-2017, 08:49 AM
GearBoy absolutely gets it!

EskimoJoe
10-10-2017, 09:02 AM
Wynncompany,

The very fact that Alaska is yet again beholden to arbitration says it all.

Arbitration is on the table thanks to ALPA merger Policy, not the Alaska Pilot group. There was never a choice not to use arbitration in this process. It was predetermined by ALPA National.

full of luv
10-11-2017, 05:12 AM
Arbitration is on the table thanks to ALPA merger Policy, not the Alaska Pilot group. There was never a choice not to use arbitration in this process. It was predetermined by ALPA National.

How does ALPA merger policy require JCBA negotiations to go to arbitration? How come no other ALPA airline in mergers have gone to arbitration for JCBA negotiations?

Speed Pilot
10-11-2017, 06:56 AM
Arbitration is on the table thanks to ALPA merger Policy, not the Alaska Pilot group. There was never a choice not to use arbitration in this process. It was predetermined by ALPA National.



Wrong. It is not ALPA nationalís policy.

Arbitration is what was required during a merger by the Alaska Contract. Our two negotiating teams in the interest of trying to make this merger happen quickly agreed to keep it to only 3 sections.

ShyGuy
10-11-2017, 09:03 AM
Arbitration is on the table thanks to ALPA merger Policy, not the Alaska Pilot group. There was never a choice not to use arbitration in this process. It was predetermined by ALPA National.

That's completely wrong. You don't even know your current Scope Section 1, no wonder we're screwed. The entire arbitration process we're going through is spelled out in the 2013 AS contract Section 1 - Scope (includes M&A language). I forgive you though. After all that info was buried in Section 1 Scope and some of you still think that only means mouthwash and are the only legacy with no real Scope.

Bugaboo
10-11-2017, 12:09 PM
Really???
Never voted yes for a contract in my tenure at Alaska.
Dream job??? Well not so much. This industry has sucked for 16 years... not many dream jobs out there
We are in arbitration...will get an award on the 29th... pretty sure we will be ok. If it really sucks complain then.
And wait didnít you go undercut the entire industry for RJ rates.
95hr 320 CA... Donít think AS management didnít rub our noses in it as we had to compete with you guys.... I know I know your a ďcobraĒ now demanding Delta 777 rates... what a joke.. I can hardly wait for the SLI... AS management is going to have to give all the VX pilots the day off served with hot coco and coloring books

Sounds good.....except I will have a Black Butte Porter and skip the coloring book😉

PNWFlyer
10-11-2017, 02:02 PM
That's completely wrong. You don't even know your current Scope Section 1, no wonder we're screwed. The entire arbitration process we're going through is spelled out in the 2013 AS contract Section 1 - Scope (includes M&A language). I forgive you though. After all that info was buried in Section 1 Scope and some of you still think that only means mouthwash and are the only legacy with no real Scope.

He was probably confused about the SLI going to arbitration. That is ALPA policy.

busbusbaby
10-11-2017, 02:30 PM
I cant say what I really want to, but the senior Alaska pilots and MEC and LECs are kool aid drinking, brown nosing, and spineless. I really hope the mergered group can run these people out of office and show the angel lake folks what a true unified (union) pilot group is like. :mad::mad::mad:

Just a Lurker
10-11-2017, 04:01 PM
You're spot on. But it will never happen. Those residing above 13 Coins are too entrenched and skilled at the bureaucracy to ever let go of their grip. And the VX MEC has no backbone. They'll be swept aside for business as usual soon enough.

ForeverJunior
10-11-2017, 05:32 PM
We can blame our union leadership until the cows come home.

But until the rank and file pilots start growing a set and have some self respect, nothing is going to happen.

GearBoy has already covered it all.

Until we have a pilot group that is not fat, dumb, and happy with everything, then nothing is going to change.

How many pilots actually read the communications from the LEC, MEC, & JNC?

How many pilots contact their reps on a regular basis? How many attend meetings?

Get involved & stay engaged. Also, do your job and allow others to do theirs.

Blame the officers all you want. But, nothing is going to change until each individual pilot becomes engaged.

Thrill
10-11-2017, 05:36 PM
Indeed, sir. Indeed.


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Thrill
10-11-2017, 05:39 PM
A change in attitude and ACTION by the pilot group would likely have had us enjoying the fruits of a negotiated contract now, not waiting to hear what an arbitrator has decided for us.

But we flat out did not compel them to respect us. Weíre where we are now because of that.


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full of luv
10-11-2017, 05:56 PM
He was probably confused about the SLI going to arbitration. That is ALPA policy.

Which is both sad and amazing that a pilot that works for ALK (assuming that Eskimoe Joe actually does) doesn't even realize that you are in the midst of arbitration for your JCBA contract and not even working on SLI yet.....

Yet still thinks that ALPA National is somehow the problem.

waterboy
10-11-2017, 06:27 PM
You're spot on. But it will never happen. Those residing above 13 Coins are too entrenched and skilled at the bureaucracy to ever let go of their grip. And the VX MEC has no backbone. They'll be swept aside for business as usual soon enough.

How do you have such strong opinions about BOTH MECs? Have you worked at both airlines?

Thrill
10-11-2017, 06:32 PM
When someone starts spouting ďnationalĒ I read it the same as ďlizard peopleĒ. It just misses the mark on how things get done. ALPA National is an awesome support structure, and an advocate for the profession as a whole. But all politics is local is true. Each group determines what theyíll accept. At AS, weíve sadly accepted 92% for so long our management believes theyíre entitled to it. WE have to change their minds. Not national, not the MEC. US.

pause
10-11-2017, 06:41 PM
You're spot on. But it will never happen. Those residing above 13 Coins are too entrenched and skilled at the bureaucracy to ever let go of their grip. And the VX MEC has no backbone. They'll be swept aside for business as usual soon enough.

Ha. No backbone?? Uhhhhhhhh ok. Keep telling yourself that

ShyGuy
10-11-2017, 11:54 PM
The primary architect of Alaska's contract becomes an Alaska Legend and isn't he on the committee for the JCBA for the AS side? If that's true then what more do you need to know.

Thrill
10-12-2017, 10:18 AM
Shy, not sure what youíve ďheardĒ but no one on the AS side of the JCBA is a legend.

Are you referring to MR, who is retired?

MiLtoMajor123
10-12-2017, 10:56 AM
Interesting points.....but can we keep this off the Hiring thread? I'd like some Seniority....and a bigger pilot group which will have more power. :D

busbusbaby
10-12-2017, 05:18 PM
When someone starts spouting ďnationalĒ I read it the same as ďlizard peopleĒ. It just misses the mark on how things get done. ALPA National is an awesome support structure, and an advocate for the profession as a whole. But all politics is local is true. Each group determines what theyíll accept. At AS, weíve sadly accepted 92% for so long our management believes theyíre entitled to it. WE have to change their minds. Not national, not the MEC. US.

Absolutely correct, the virgin pilots and MEC is very upset with things and if it is thought that we are weak boy oh boy will there be an eye opener. Most virgin pilots are from places that treated the rank and file so poorly they are no longer in business. There is a wdgac attitude and it is growing. Just look at the performance for the **** poor fifty scratches a month. We donít give a c about it and the performance shows. 90% of us have been there done that
and are more than willing to let angle lake fail in spectacular fashion. Pilot demand is very high and the leadership is to snow blind to see it.

SmoothLanderJ
10-12-2017, 08:47 PM
Wynncompany,

I understand. No one likes to hear that their baby is ugly.

It's very simple. IMO, Nothing's changed there, at Alaskan Airways. The very fact that Alaska is yet again beholden to arbitration says it all. IMHO, Alaska would have already had a negotiated contract if during negotiations:

Alaska pilots did not fly Premium/VSA/time-and-a-half
Alaska pilots did not sell back vacation
Alaska pilots did not work on vacation
Alaska pilots did not work on days off
Alaska pilots did not build their lines up to 117 max

It's an unwritten rule that you do not do things like these during negotiations. Jeff Parker @ American did not do the "right thing" out of the goodness of his heart. He saw the writing on the wall. American pilots spelled it out to him.

You are only as strong as your union. What people forget is that the Union is not an MEC or a negotiating committee. The Union is the pilot in the seat next to you. If he or she is flying premium or VSA during negotiations, the Union is weak. By that definition, the union at Alaska is VERY, VERY weak, then and still now.

Companies, including Alaska, only understand a few things. They understand canceled flights, delayed flights, and increased training costs due to pilots leaving for greener pastures. Right or wrong, you do not get the contract you deserve. You get the contract you demand. Right or wrong, it is the reality under the RLA. (BTW, Where are the completion and on-time rates at Alaska? At Virgin?)

No, things have NOT changed at Alaska. It's the same thing all over again.

No matter the outcome of your arbitration, it'll only decide a few items. Alaska pilots will still be stuck with the same crappy work rules and lack of QoL at an airline with the longest list of unsettled grievances. They'll be facing openers in just two years, openers and section six negotiations with the same disingenuous approach from management.

As far as your ad hominem attacks against me, I will not respond in kind. I never have gone there. I will not start now. I refuse to stoop. However, in response to your latest attack, I will only repeat along the lines of what I said last time:

Take a deep breath. Take another bite of your PayDay candy bar and wash it down with another swig of Kool-aid. Heck, finish them both. Alaska has plenty more where that came from; because, Brad Tilden, the Cooch and Tom Kemp love you long time.

Lastly, Don't worry about me. Living well is the best revenge.

Drop the ****** Mike! This should be required reading for everyone on the property and getting hired. Well Said! Sad but oh so true...

HangOn
10-13-2017, 08:12 AM
Links??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Probably best to get from a VX/AS Pilot contact.

GearBoy
10-14-2017, 10:40 PM
Arbitration is on the table thanks to ALPA merger Policy, not the Alaska Pilot group. There was never a choice not to use arbitration in this process. It was predetermined by ALPA National.

Eskimo-schmo,

You are wrong, plain and simple. The reason you're in arbitration is because negotiations failed.

Why did your negotiations fail? Because there was no real reason for your company to come to the table. Completions rates and on-time performance was in the 90's. Why fix what isn't broken?

In the end, your company didn't have to come to the table because Alaska pilots didn't make them. Many Alaska pilots sat passively, waiting and hoping for their company to do the right thing. Still many more greedily fed at the trough, trading away everyone's chance at any real gains for their selfish short-sighted $hort-term profit. In both cases, there was no need for your company to seriously come to the table.

Gordon Gekko was right. Greed is good. Especially if you're management-

GearBoy
10-14-2017, 11:08 PM
Interesting points.....but can we keep this off the Hiring thread? I'd like some Seniority....and a bigger pilot group which will have more power. :D

That's just it. Perspective hires are the ones that need to read this the most. They need to know what they're getting themselves into at Alaska. An educated decision-

Bigger pilot group does not necessarily equate to more power, especially if the island is filled with even more misfit toys-

Ironically, things probably won't get better there until Alaska yet again has problems attracting and retaining, just like when b-scale went away.

In the meantime, get ready for a lowering of hiring qualifications and a streamlining of the hiring process. That's my prediction. College? Grades? Sim ride? Total time? PIC turbine? Interview process? Application windows? They're going to do whatever it takes to get as many minimally qualified pilots through the pipeline before the supply dries-up. A minimally experienced yet barely qualified is NOT what the average pilot wants to sit next to. But, it is good enough for management, a warm butt in the seat-

My prediction is for more misfit toys on your island.

busbusbaby
10-15-2017, 06:50 AM
Gearboy , you sound like an outsider troll. You have no knowledge of what happened here, so maybe you should shut your ozone producing hole. Go way man just go away

Packrat
10-15-2017, 07:20 AM
Gearboy , you sound like an outsider troll. You have no knowledge of what happened here, so maybe you should shut your ozone producing hole. Go way man just go away

Unfortunately, Gear Boy is 100% correct. Sorry if the truth hurts.

2loud
10-15-2017, 08:28 AM
Gearboy , you sound like an outsider troll. You have no knowledge of what happened here, so maybe you should shut your ozone producing hole. Go way man just go away

Gearboy was once an Alaskan pilot and wasn't acquired so he knows what he's talking about. Until people know the facts and worked under this regime, I'd suggest that ya'll keep your pie hole shut.

juventus
10-15-2017, 11:48 AM
I could be wrong but neither Gearboy or Packrat ever worked for Alaska , maybe Horizon, that would explain their dislike for AAG .

ForeverJunior
10-15-2017, 01:17 PM
I could be wrong but neither Gearboy or Packrat ever worked for Alaska , maybe Horizon, that would explain their dislike for AAG .

You don't have to work for QX to dislike AAG management. Some of us are still here at ALK and dislike our management.

They treat every employee group as an adversary. We are a liability to them when it comes to pay & benefits. They fight every work group tooth & nail to pay the least for most productivity.

I get it. It's just business. But, their adversarial tactics are really beginning to wear on us. They are really destroying morale and don't seem to care.

They have already damaged QX. ALK may be next if they don't wake up.

We have really good employee groups here. It's our management that leaves a lot to be desired. They are great with numbers and metrics, but they have no sense for human factors. People are going to stop bending over backwards for management and their empty platitudes.

It comes down to pay, time off, & QOL while at work. All 3 of those things have been chipped away at.

I'm not a bitter person. But, I would have looked elsewhere if the market was like this 12 years ago.

I do have buyer's remorse for sure. Anyway, bottom line is that GearBoy has been correct in all his posts.

A pilot candidate should look at his/her prospective employer with a critical eye. Research, read, & talk to people. This is the rest of your career. Make an informed decision.

FWIW, I wouldn't recommend any of my friends come to ALK.

OCCP
10-15-2017, 02:54 PM
We have really good employee groups here. It's our management that....



I keep hearing that but if the pilot group is so great, why donít they have any [email protected], and why are they completely unaware of the industry around them?

Justin Case
10-15-2017, 05:39 PM
I keep hearing that but if the pilot group is so great, why donít they have any [email protected], and why are they completely unaware of the industry around them?

I think you answered your own question. Whatís the saying? ďNice guys finish last.Ē We do have great employees. I have tried to stay somewhat positive. I thought it canít get any worse. The culture hasnít changed. Gear boy speaks the truth, although he speaks it a lot.😁

GearBoy
10-15-2017, 10:33 PM
I could be wrong but neither Gearboy or Packrat ever worked for Alaska , maybe Horizon, that would explain their dislike for AAG .


No, never QX-

Truth be told, IMHO, not a big fan of Horizon pilots who moved-up to ALK, especially the Lamar UND stereotypes. Just my opinion, but, they seemed to be some of the biggest sufferers of what I perceived to be Stockholm and beaten wife syndromes. IMO, the air group was all that they knew and thus rolled, folded and voted YES easily.

So, NO, not a QX guy-

Only an Alaska guy with years on both the MD and 737:

Multiple years on reserve with only 10 days off a month, poor or no QoL under the Sorrensons, Muis, Haiges, Johnsons, Wellmans, Sarretskys, Ayers et al; IMO, contract violation after violation; fly then grieve; stolen days off; stolen vacation days; reduced and eliminated summer vacations; multiple unnecessary base displacements; voted away pensions; ~35% pay cut; needless furloughs; a dysfunctional family that eats its young; IMO, CAs selling FOs down the river; unrealistic staffing models; IMO, intimidation for using SL; a bag of Moose Munch for X-mas, PayDay candy bars, 92% of industry; and insult after injury, on and on ...

All of the above and many more explain my dislike for AAG. Truthfully, I readily admit that I consider going to Alaska and not leaving sooner a mistake. If I had to do it over again, I'd do it differently. Again, just my opinion. Your mileage may differ.

I post not because I'm a troll as babybus childishly asserts. I do it probably for two reasons, possibly false altruism, so others don't make the same mistake I made and because it's cathartic. It's cheaper than therapy.

Listen. I believe that I wasted a lot of time at Alaska. IMO, they ruined a lot of lives, needlessly. Others should not suffer the same fate, especially in todays environment. If you want to go there, GO. Just hopefully make an educated informed decision.

I do find it interesting though, that babybus, presumably from Virgin, tells me that after being there for years that I know nothing of "over here," as if being recently acquired makes him all-knowing and a seasoned ALK veteran. Bravado, I guess- Maybe wounded pride-

Just go away? I already did. I knew enough to do just that. Hopefully, you won't have to entertain thoughts of doing the same. Truthfully, it'll be up to your newly integrated pilot group to make things better.

baby, I am not the real enemy. If the truth hurts, I'm sorry. Good luck to you. Find solace in knowing that I have more faith in the Virgin pilots than the usual Alaska suspects. The VX pilots do not have years of culture and syndromes to overcome. If Northwest could dig-in, resist, and overcome/prevail at Delta, there's hope for you guys too. But, denial and not facing the Bizarro Alaskas World reality won't help.

Again, good luck, God speed, and grow a pair. Otherwise, get used to being 5th highest.

ShyGuy
10-15-2017, 11:30 PM
No, never QX-

Truth be told, IMHO, not a big fan of Horizon pilots who moved-up to ALK, especially the Lamar UND stereotypes. Just my opinion, but, they seemed to be some of the biggest sufferers of what I perceived to be Stockholm and beaten wife syndromes. IMO, the air group was all that they knew and thus rolled, folded and voted YES easily.

So, NO, not a QX guy-

Only an Alaska guy with years on both the MD and 737:

Multiple years on reserve with only 10 days off a month, poor or no QoL under the Sorrensons, Muis, Haiges, Johnsons, Wellmans, Sarretskys, Ayers et al; IMO, contract violation after violation; fly then grieve; stolen days off; stolen vacation days; reduced and eliminated summer vacations; multiple unnecessary base displacements; voted away pensions; ~35% pay cut; needless furloughs; a dysfunctional family that eats its young; IMO, CAs selling FOs down the river; unrealistic staffing models; IMO, intimidation for using SL; a bag of Moose Munch for X-mas, PayDay candy bars, 92% of industry; and insult after injury, on and on ...

All of the above and many more explain my dislike for AAG. Truthfully, I readily admit that I consider going to Alaska and not leaving sooner a mistake. If I had to do it over again, I'd do it differently. Again, just my opinion. Your mileage may differ.

I post not because I'm a troll as babybus childishly asserts. I do it probably for two reasons, possibly false altruism, so others don't make the same mistake I made and because it's cathartic. It's cheaper than therapy.

Listen. I believe that I wasted a lot of time at Alaska. IMO, they ruined a lot of lives, needlessly. Others should not suffer the same fate, especially in todays environment. If you want to go there, GO. Just hopefully make an educated informed decision.

I do find it interesting though, that babybus, presumably from Virgin, tells me that after being there for years that I know nothing of "over here," as if being recently acquired makes him all-knowing and a seasoned ALK veteran. Bravado, I guess- Maybe wounded pride-

Just go away? I already did. I knew enough to do just that. Hopefully, you won't have to entertain thoughts of doing the same. Truthfully, it'll be up to your newly integrated pilot group to make things better.

baby, I am not the real enemy. If the truth hurts, I'm sorry. Good luck to you. Find solace in knowing that I have more faith in the Virgin pilots than the usual Alaska suspects. The VX pilots do not have years of culture and syndromes to overcome. If Northwest could dig-in, resist, and overcome/prevail at Delta, there's hope for you guys too. But, denial and not facing the Bizarro Alaskas World reality won't help.

Again, good luck, God speed, and grow a pair. Otherwise, get used to being 5th highest.

Well said!

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-VkrfnYo-CBw/VsmNk7Fj1SI/AAAAAAAAGLc/fjMwk4I7k3I/s320/tumblr_nu5pceUazC1s2wio8o1_500.gif

Yetifan
10-16-2017, 05:52 AM
No, never QX-

Truth be told, IMHO, not a big fan of Horizon pilots who moved-up to ALK, especially the Lamar UND stereotypes. Just my opinion, but, they seemed to be some of the biggest sufferers of what I perceived to be Stockholm and beaten wife syndromes. IMO, the air group was all that they knew and thus rolled, folded and voted YES easily.

So, NO, not a QX guy-

Only an Alaska guy with years on both the MD and 737:

Multiple years on reserve with only 10 days off a month, poor or no QoL under the Sorrensons, Muis, Haiges, Johnsons, Wellmans, Sarretskys, Ayers et al; IMO, contract violation after violation; fly then grieve; stolen days off; stolen vacation days; reduced and eliminated summer vacations; multiple unnecessary base displacements; voted away pensions; ~35% pay cut; needless furloughs; a dysfunctional family that eats its young; IMO, CAs selling FOs down the river; unrealistic staffing models; IMO, intimidation for using SL; a bag of Moose Munch for X-mas, PayDay candy bars, 92% of industry; and insult after injury, on and on ...

All of the above and many more explain my dislike for AAG. Truthfully, I readily admit that I consider going to Alaska and not leaving sooner a mistake. If I had to do it over again, I'd do it differently. Again, just my opinion. Your mileage may differ.

I post not because I'm a troll as babybus childishly asserts. I do it probably for two reasons, possibly false altruism, so others don't make the same mistake I made and because it's cathartic. It's cheaper than therapy.

Listen. I believe that I wasted a lot of time at Alaska. IMO, they ruined a lot of lives, needlessly. Others should not suffer the same fate, especially in todays environment. If you want to go there, GO. Just hopefully make an educated informed decision.

I do find it interesting though, that babybus, presumably from Virgin, tells me that after being there for years that I know nothing of "over here," as if being recently acquired makes him all-knowing and a seasoned ALK veteran. Bravado, I guess- Maybe wounded pride-

Just go away? I already did. I knew enough to do just that. Hopefully, you won't have to entertain thoughts of doing the same. Truthfully, it'll be up to your newly integrated pilot group to make things better.

baby, I am not the real enemy. If the truth hurts, I'm sorry. Good luck to you. Find solace in knowing that I have more faith in the Virgin pilots than the usual Alaska suspects. The VX pilots do not have years of culture and syndromes to overcome. If Northwest could dig-in, resist, and overcome/prevail at Delta, there's hope for you guys too. But, denial and not facing the Bizarro Alaskas World reality won't help.

Again, good luck, God speed, and grow a pair. Otherwise, get used to being 5th highest.

Once again, very will said! It's the worst case of Stockholm syndrome in the industry. Let's hope the VX guys will prevent the AS yes men from lowering the bar even further...

SEAtoSummit
10-16-2017, 09:21 AM
Long time lurker, but I'd like some input.

My top consideration is living in Seattle, and that's non-negotiable. Of course, I also would like Legacy/Major pay and QOL, so a career at a SEA-based regional is just not in the cards. Clearly the best option would be Delta to SEA. But for you guys with strong opinions on AS either way, which would you choose if you were in my shoes (if Delta doesn't pan out)?

1. Suck it up and join Alaska with eyes wide-open, accepting that pay and QOL will suffer - but being able to live in-base.

2. Go with UA or SWA knowing that I will be a career-commuter to the Bay Area. Or AA/FDX with an even farther commute?

Is QOL and management so poor at Alaska that you would accept the commuter life with another carrier?

Thanks in advance!

ForeverJunior
10-16-2017, 09:37 AM
So long time lurker, but I'd like some input.

I'm set to separate from the military soon and my top consideration is living in Seattle. That's non-negotiable. Of course, I also would like Legacy/Major pay and QOL, so a second career at SkyWest or Horizon is just not in the cards. Clearly the best option would be Delta to SEA. But for you guys with strong opinions on AS either way, which would you choose if you were in my shoes (if Delta doesn't pan out)?

1. Suck it up and join Alaska with eyes wide-open, accepting that pay and QOL will suffer - but being able to live in-base.

2. Go with UA or SWA knowing that I will be a career-commuter to the Bay Area. Or AA/FEDEX with an even farther commute?

Is QOL and management relationship so poor at Alaska that you would accept the commuter life with another carrier?

Thanks in advance!

Why is living in the Seattle area a priority for you? Is it possible you might consider moving elsewhere in the future?

Commuting sucks, but I would look elsewhere if DAL doesn't work out. I wouldn't come to Alaska if I knew then what I know now.

I wish you the best. I hope you get on with Delta.

SEAtoSummit
10-16-2017, 09:53 AM
Why is living in the Seattle area a priority for you? Is it possible you might consider moving elsewhere in the future?

Commuting sucks, but I would look elsewhere if DAL doesn't work out. I wouldn't come to Alaska if I knew then what I know now.

I wish you the best. I hope you get on with Delta.

I've lived all over the place with the military and the McChord area was easily head-and-shoulders above anywhere else for my family and interests. If I lived outside of WA, I'd probably end up "commuting" there a couple times a month to visit friends, climb in the Cascades, or backpack in the Olympics. Maybe that's doable. Ironically, I'd also be open to living in Salt Lake or Anchorage, but those are kind of already covered by those two airlines.

Thanks for the input. :)

patelam
10-16-2017, 10:16 AM
Iíll chime in on the FedEx side of your commuting question.

Commuting on FedEx has got to be the easiest in the country. Thereís always one nonstop flight to Memphis from any decent sized city, from which you can reserve your Jumpseat 21 days out. Cities like Seattle have at least 3 nonstops to Memphis, or a minimum of 9, and up to 15 seats a day. With the amount of layovers and front and/or tail end deadheads to Seattle, you may not even have to commute. Or even commute one day a month if you prefer the single departure 10-14 day trip lines.

Thereís two banks in Memphis, and youíre guaranteed to commute into one or the other since they allow time for aircraft landing to be downloaded and their cargo contents placed into the sort. If you end up with a deadhead to somewhere other than Seattle, you can change that to start/end in Seattle, you just have to schedule enough crew rest prior to the departure.

I think FedEx has the best commute rules in the country, because nobody wants to be shot at in Memphis!

Good luck, hope you get Delta, Alaska if it works or wherever you find your niche!

busbusbaby
10-16-2017, 10:30 AM
GearBoy

I acquiesce, so you were at Alaska. I am not sure you were or are at Virgin, I would say no as the VX pilots are not like the Alaska pilots. We saw very quickly the smoke screen management tried to put up to hide their true selves. Glad you moved on I hope those of us that are stuck ( to close to retirement) to move on, along with the young Alaskans can change the give away attitude of the pilot group.

Packrat
10-16-2017, 12:35 PM
I could be wrong but neither Gearboy or Packrat ever worked for Alaska , maybe Horizon, that would explain their dislike for AAG .

I only worked at AS for 24 years. And contrary to your opinion, I didn't dislike it. That doesn't mean I don't know most of the dirty little secrets the Angle Lake boys would have you overlook with their "We are Family" tripe.

Gear boy is 100% correct and tells it better than I can.

Packrat
10-16-2017, 12:42 PM
But for you guys with strong opinions on AS either way, which would you choose if you were in my shoes (if Delta doesn't pan out)? Is QOL and management so poor at Alaska that you would accept the commuter life with another carrier?

Thanks in advance!

If you can accept 92-94% of the pay that other Legacy 737 drivers get and living in SEA is the most important thing to you, Alaska is a decent place to work. After all, there's more to life than money.

You will have a comfortable living and the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Hopefully Delta will pan out for you. You can always start at Alaska and jump ship when the Delta call comes.

Commuting is no fun even if its a one leg, short commute on Company metal. In your case, I'd say just keep in mind Gear Boy's posts...

schwifty
10-16-2017, 01:36 PM
Go where you get hired, and keep your Delta app up to date for as long as you'd consider making the move. If you have the luxury of picking between AS and a higher paying job elsewhere cross that bridge when you come to it. It really depends on your priorities.


Long time lurker, but I'd like some input.

My top consideration is living in Seattle, and that's non-negotiable. Of course, I also would like Legacy/Major pay and QOL, so a career at a SEA-based regional is just not in the cards. Clearly the best option would be Delta to SEA. But for you guys with strong opinions on AS either way, which would you choose if you were in my shoes (if Delta doesn't pan out)?

1. Suck it up and join Alaska with eyes wide-open, accepting that pay and QOL will suffer - but being able to live in-base.

2. Go with UA or SWA knowing that I will be a career-commuter to the Bay Area. Or AA/FDX with an even farther commute?

Is QOL and management so poor at Alaska that you would accept the commuter life with another carrier?

Thanks in advance!

pause
10-16-2017, 03:12 PM
No, never QX-

Truth be told, IMHO, not a big fan of Horizon pilots who moved-up to ALK, especially the Lamar UND stereotypes. Just my opinion, but, they seemed to be some of the biggest sufferers of what I perceived to be Stockholm and beaten wife syndromes. IMO, the air group was all that they knew and thus rolled, folded and voted YES easily.

So, NO, not a QX guy-

Only an Alaska guy with years on both the MD and 737:

Multiple years on reserve with only 10 days off a month, poor or no QoL under the Sorrensons, Muis, Haiges, Johnsons, Wellmans, Sarretskys, Ayers et al; IMO, contract violation after violation; fly then grieve; stolen days off; stolen vacation days; reduced and eliminated summer vacations; multiple unnecessary base displacements; voted away pensions; ~35% pay cut; needless furloughs; a dysfunctional family that eats its young; IMO, CAs selling FOs down the river; unrealistic staffing models; IMO, intimidation for using SL; a bag of Moose Munch for X-mas, PayDay candy bars, 92% of industry; and insult after injury, on and on ...

All of the above and many more explain my dislike for AAG. Truthfully, I readily admit that I consider going to Alaska and not leaving sooner a mistake. If I had to do it over again, I'd do it differently. Again, just my opinion. Your mileage may differ.

I post not because I'm a troll as babybus childishly asserts. I do it probably for two reasons, possibly false altruism, so others don't make the same mistake I made and because it's cathartic. It's cheaper than therapy.

Listen. I believe that I wasted a lot of time at Alaska. IMO, they ruined a lot of lives, needlessly. Others should not suffer the same fate, especially in todays environment. If you want to go there, GO. Just hopefully make an educated informed decision.

I do find it interesting though, that babybus, presumably from Virgin, tells me that after being there for years that I know nothing of "over here," as if being recently acquired makes him all-knowing and a seasoned ALK veteran. Bravado, I guess- Maybe wounded pride-

Just go away? I already did. I knew enough to do just that. Hopefully, you won't have to entertain thoughts of doing the same. Truthfully, it'll be up to your newly integrated pilot group to make things better.

baby, I am not the real enemy. If the truth hurts, I'm sorry. Good luck to you. Find solace in knowing that I have more faith in the Virgin pilots than the usual Alaska suspects. The VX pilots do not have years of culture and syndromes to overcome. If Northwest could dig-in, resist, and overcome/prevail at Delta, there's hope for you guys too. But, denial and not facing the Bizarro Alaskas World reality won't help.

Again, good luck, God speed, and grow a pair. Otherwise, get used to being 5th highest.

*another golf clap*
Gearboy gets it.

OCCP
10-16-2017, 05:30 PM
Everyone needs to listen to Gearboy. Heís spot on.

DBCooper1968
10-16-2017, 10:18 PM
Long time lurker, but I'd like some input.

My top consideration is living in Seattle, and that's non-negotiable. Of course, I also would like Legacy/Major pay and QOL, so a career at a SEA-based regional is just not in the cards. Clearly the best option would be Delta to SEA. But for you guys with strong opinions on AS either way, which would you choose if you were in my shoes (if Delta doesn't pan out)?

1. Suck it up and join Alaska with eyes wide-open, accepting that pay and QOL will suffer - but being able to live in-base.

2. Go with UA or SWA knowing that I will be a career-commuter to the Bay Area. Or AA/FDX with an even farther commute?

Is QOL and management so poor at Alaska that you would accept the commuter life with another carrier?

Thanks in advance!

I wouldn't make an airline career decision based solely on a preferred base. You could go to FedEx or UPS and commute relatively hassle free and enjoy more days off in Seattle than you would at Alaska with our schedules. You could probably purchase positive space tickets to/from your base with the difference in pay. Alaska is a good place to work, but sadly we are quite behind in pay and far behind in work rules. Make sure you consider everything.

Rabid Seagull
10-17-2017, 05:17 AM
Otherwise, get used to being 5th highest.


5th highest?
After Oct 29th?

pete2800
10-17-2017, 08:55 AM
5th highest?
After Oct 29th?

Yes. That's the proposal.

NotTellin
10-17-2017, 10:47 AM
Long time lurker, but I'd like some input.

My top consideration is living in Seattle, and that's non-negotiable. Of course, I also would like Legacy/Major pay and QOL, so a career at a SEA-based regional is just not in the cards. Clearly the best option would be Delta to SEA. But for you guys with strong opinions on AS either way, which would you choose if you were in my shoes (if Delta doesn't pan out)?

1. Suck it up and join Alaska with eyes wide-open, accepting that pay and QOL will suffer - but being able to live in-base.

2. Go with UA or SWA knowing that I will be a career-commuter to the Bay Area. Or AA/FDX with an even farther commute?

Is QOL and management so poor at Alaska that you would accept the commuter life with another carrier?

Thanks in advance!

I'm a life long SEA resident that works for VX and I'm not thrilled with this merger. If that tells you anything. BTW, I grew up in a "Alaska Family". My old Man worked in the MX dept. most of my childhood.

GearBoy
10-17-2017, 07:20 PM
SEAtoSUMMIT:

If Delta is your first choice, call in your markers, network, find out what you need to do to your app to get it scored highly, do whatever it takes to get that interview, wear the right suit and tie color, do the prep, know all of the answers, and know whether to sit in the rocking chair, so to speak. It still is whom you know in this world.

That being said, practically speaking, you take the first offer that comes down the pike. If it's your first choice, great. If not, keep your apps up-to-date. Keep networking. Keep trying. The best way to get a job is to already have one.

Wherever you end up, living in base is huge. That’s the ideal. So, even though you have already ruled it out, consider moving. Never say never. As an airline pilot, you'll find your self rationalizing a lot of decisions by telling yourself and others that it's cheaper than alimony.

As far as commuting is concerned, it's a relative thing. It's not ideal at any one place; but, it's better at some places than others. It depends upon the airline work rules (scheduling/scheduling flexibility) and the distance you have to commute. There's a big difference between SEA-SFO or SEA-OAK and a trans-con to get to work. Being able to commute the day of a trip as opposed to coming in the day before or going home the day after is huge as well. Also, the scheduling flexibility at where you end up is very, very important. The ability to arrange your schedule around your commute, birthdays, anniversaries, and the ability to just drop down if need be makes a world of difference.

It’s clichť but very, very, true nonetheless. If mama’s not happy, NO ONE is happy. There is more to life than money, especially if chasing that money ends in divorce or a child in rehab.

There are plenty of Reserve McChord guys who do just what you’re asking. Hopefully they can shed some light on the subject. Ask about drilling and commuting. Ask about Mil Leave and their personal experiences. In the past, Alaska had issues with Mil Leave at both McChord and Whidbey. Ask about scheduling flexibility. Especially ask the McChord Alaska guys about any ability to change their schedules. Step trades? Can they drop below 75? Can they trade with open time? Are all of the days closed because of inadequate reserve coverage? Vacation? Can they get vacation with their families? Weekends, nights, or holidays? Keep in mind that just because their contract has provisions, MOUs, and LOAs for scheduling doesn't mean that they can practically do it. Can you say Third Step?

Lastly, ask any Reserve McChord buddies about how many days they get off each month. A Delta guy flying green slips at double-time is getting paid more than twice as much as an Alaska guy limited contractually to working mostly for straight time. Hypothetically, that could mean a Delta guy or gal working less than half as many days in a month compared to an Alaska guy. It is all about the work rules. Ask your buddies to show you their W-2s. What you make as an airline pilot is not your hourly wage. It’s what your W-2 says at the end of the year. That W-2 is a product of work rules. The ability to get paid more in the same or fewer days equates to more days at home with your family if you so choose.

My first choice would be to do anything and everything to get on with DA in Seattle. The reasons are many. Hopefully you know the specifics. Again, it's a relative thing. Bottom line, DA gives you the most choices going forward. Don’t give up on that one.

Personally, I would commute to OAK for Southwest before I would go to Alaska. Even with the commute to OAK, your schedule, QOL, and future will be better. AM/PM lines, trips touching, only 15 days on reserve, the ability to drop down each month, trades, good rigs, and better pay, etc. None of which you will enjoy at Alaska by comparison. Southwest is also a larger airline planning on doing a lot of hiring. There’s more of everything to be had and things will move faster at a larger airline compared to smaller Alaska.

So, to sum it up, you apply to your top choices, you take the first offer that comes your way, and if necessary, you keep trying to get-on at your number one choice.

Good luck.
Work to Live NOT Live to Work.
Thank you too for your service.

amkelly
10-21-2017, 09:49 AM
Trying to find out if I successfully interview, how long from interview to class date. Just got the call and was offered nov 7th which is really soon, don't want to wait so I will be cramming. Then wonder how long the wait is.

JKSees
10-21-2017, 10:04 AM
I sent you a PM with a question. Hope thats ok.

Trying to find out if I successfully interview, how long from interview to class date. Just got the call and was offered nov 7th which is really soon, don't want to wait so I will be cramming. Then wonder how long the wait is.

ShyGuy
10-21-2017, 11:31 AM
Trying to find out if I successfully interview, how long from interview to class date. Just got the call and was offered nov 7th which is really soon, don't want to wait so I will be cramming. Then wonder how long the wait is.

Nov 7 is far away. When I got the interview email on a Tuesday, my 2 dates were Wednesday the next day (yes, next day at SFO), or the following Wednesday. That was 8 days so I took it. I'm a firm believer in not putting off interview dates and accept what they provide. The sooner the better and the quicker you'll be in class and not lose seniority.

ImperialxRat
10-22-2017, 05:41 AM
Trying to find out if I successfully interview, how long from interview to class date. Just got the call and was offered nov 7th which is really soon, don't want to wait so I will be cramming. Then wonder how long the wait is..

As mentioned above I think most people in my interview group had about a week notice, some only 2 days notice. I was called 11 days before my interview date.

Getting a class date took us around 30 days because you need your background check to clear. The company they use for that are ridiculous about asking for stupid stuff.

Good luck in the interview.

AJ Crowley
10-22-2017, 01:44 PM
5th highest?
After Oct 29th?

Not even 5th, only 12 year pay is 5th. The middle of the captain and FO scale is horrible. As in worse than Hawaiian. If I was job hunting I wouldn't come here.

Bugaboo
10-23-2017, 08:03 AM
Not even 5th, only 12 year pay is 5th. The middle of the captain and FO scale is horrible. As in worse than Hawaiian. If I was job hunting I wouldn't come here.

One more week and the beeoooching will really ramp up!

CassinAK
10-24-2017, 08:25 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171025/833fcd4fd0e38d17d9069f8cb6b57f0b.jpg

Look at this and remember who your trying to work for.....

Moonwolf
10-29-2017, 07:37 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171025/833fcd4fd0e38d17d9069f8cb6b57f0b.jpg

Look at this and remember who your trying to work for.....

That's straight ruthless! I'd love to hear how they came up with those numbers.

Ispeakjive
10-31-2017, 10:06 PM
Not even 5th, only 12 year pay is 5th. The middle of the captain and FO scale is horrible. As in worse than Hawaiian. If I was job hunting I wouldn't come here.

Seriously? Year 1 is $87 and if someone gets stuck here longer than 12 months while waiting to move up, they move to $122. If you're at a regional, its a no brainer.

airb320
11-01-2017, 04:44 AM
Seriously? Year 1 is $87 and if someone gets stuck here longer than 12 months while waiting to move up, they move to $122. If you're at a regional, its a no brainer.

Kids, must be nice to be naive...😉
You should head over to Mesa, they r looking for peeps like you.

ThePlaneSaidSo
11-04-2017, 03:15 AM
Any word on when the next window is and what the new mins will be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kitchen25
11-04-2017, 04:52 AM
Any word on when the next window is and what the new mins will be?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I donít think the mins will change yet. My guess would be the first if the year for the window to open again.

TurnNBurn
11-04-2017, 09:35 AM
Seriously? Year 1 is $87 and if someone gets stuck here longer than 12 months while waiting to move up, they move to $122. If you're at a regional, its a no brainer.

Wouldnít it be $125/hr for year 2 in 2018?

Jetlife
11-04-2017, 09:38 AM
Wouldnít it be $125/hr for year 2 in 2018?

Yes it goes to 125 year 2 in April.

TurnNBurn
11-04-2017, 11:33 AM
I am considering flying for the airlines and am trying to understand the extremely negative posts regarding the recent arbitration announcement. I am not in the 121 world, so I mean it sincerely when I say I am trying to understand it.

From what I see, the pay scales are a vast improvement especially considering how terrible they were at Alaska. They don't quite match up with the big three, but seem to be very good for a narrowbody-only fleet and on par with SWA. I get that Alaska is a legacy carrier, but it is a MUCH smaller airline than the AAL, UAL, and DAL.

From what I've read on these forums, the schedules are a source of frustration. It is difficult/impossible to drop or trade trips, but that's the way it is at Alaska and any future improvements will require reasonable industry-standard demands and a strong stance from the pilot group.

Scope. This seems to be the most contentious aspect and where I need the most help. Is the concern that all of the flying will/could be taken by the regional carriers? If so, what about the fact that the regionals are struggling so much to recruit and retain pilots? They are struggling to grow (even meet demand) due to the "pilot shortage" right? The frustration seems to be focused on management at Alaska. But I can't imagine management "winning" if they aren't keeping their growing 737 fleet flying.

[bracing for responses, but really want to have a better understanding of all of this stuff]

ForeverJunior
11-04-2017, 11:51 AM
I am considering flying for the airlines and am trying to understand the extremely negative posts regarding the recent arbitration announcement. I am not in the 121 world, so I mean it sincerely when I say I am trying to understand it.

From what I see, the pay scales are a vast improvement especially considering how terrible they were at Alaska. They don't quite match up with the big three, but seem to be very good for a narrowbody-only fleet and on par with SWA. I get that Alaska is a legacy carrier, but it is a MUCH smaller airline than the AAL, UAL, and DAL.

From what I've read on these forums, the schedules are a source of frustration. It is difficult/impossible to drop or trade trips, but that's the way it is at Alaska and any future improvements will require reasonable industry-standard demands and a strong stance from the pilot group.

Scope. This seems to be the most contentious aspect and where I need the most help. Is the concern that all of the flying will/could be taken by the regional carriers? If so, what about the fact that the regionals are struggling so much to recruit and retain pilots? They are struggling to grow (even meet demand) due to the "pilot shortage" right? The frustration seems to be focused on management at Alaska. But I can't imagine management "winning" if they aren't keeping their growing 737 fleet flying.

[bracing for responses, but really want to have a better understanding of all of this stuff]

Management wins by keeping the BOD & Wall Street happy. That way B&B get their bonuses.

They don't care who does the flying under the AAG umbrella. They want the cheapest labor.

AAG management has the utmost contempt towards its various labor groups, especially the pilots. They see us as an adversary, not an asset.

Trips and lines have gotten worse over the years. We are all flying more block hours, with not much increase in credit time.

Our reserves are flying so much that they are almost like line holders.

Fatigue reports and calls have increased quite a bit over the past two years, especially among our reserve pilots.

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have come here. It's too late for me in life to leave. If I was 10-15 years younger and has only 3-5 years invested here, I would try to bolt.

Singlecoil
11-04-2017, 12:41 PM
Scope. This seems to be the most contentious aspect and where I need the most help. Is the concern that all of the flying will/could be taken by the regional carriers? If so, what about the fact that the regionals are struggling so much to recruit and retain pilots? They are struggling to grow (even meet demand) due to the "pilot shortage" right? The frustration seems to be focused on management at Alaska. But I can't imagine management "winning" if they aren't keeping their growing 737 fleet flying.

[bracing for responses, but really want to have a better understanding of all of this stuff]

I think you get it quite well. The struggle in the future will be to not make demands for scope at the expense of other areas of the contract. It would be foolish to give up something else for scope at a time when the company couldn't possibly outsource significant flying due to the inability of regionals to hire. At a certain point it would be wise to call their bluff and say, "Go ahead. See how many regionals are beating down your door for AS flying." To do otherwise would be to let them put something in writing that they didn't have any reasonable expectation of carrying out anyway. The larger risk for AS pilots is that would outsource heavier jets. There is nothing in our contract that says they couldn't order 777's and operate them as "Alaskan Airlines" instead of Alaska. Coming to Alaska at a time of such great uncertainty when other carriers have mature union contracts would be unwise, in my opinion. I came here from a regional when the majors weren't hiring. I regret that decision, and the decision to not keep looking for better employment immensely. Not I'm a 50-year-old captain and I'm forced to think hard about leaving. A pension is worthless if the company goes bankrupt anyway. Alaska is poised to shrink if not go away. Do I quit or hope that someone buys us?

AJ Crowley
11-04-2017, 12:46 PM
Seriously? Year 1 is $87 and if someone gets stuck here longer than 12 months while waiting to move up, they move to $122. If you're at a regional, its a no brainer.

Oh, it would be great until the shine wears off in 6 to 12 months. This is sub par airline. Horrible management, and weak pilot group. The middle of the pay scales are less than Hawaiian, but that's not even the biggest problem. We have zero scope, and it's going to bite us in the a$s. Management testified in the arbitration that scope will limit them from buying JetBlue or Hawaiian, and running them as a separate airline. Word is they also said that at the negotiating table, and that that is their ultimate goal. The air group would own JetBlue, but run Alaska separate in the Pacific Northwest, and grow JetBlue as the larger airline. If management wanted to they could order 100 more 737 or airbus and place them with another airline to fly as Alaska, and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Like I said before, avoid this place like the plague.

busbusbaby
11-04-2017, 01:19 PM
Management wins by keeping the BOD & Wall Street happy. That way B&B get their bonuses.

They don't care who does the flying under the AAG umbrella. They want the cheapest labor.

AAG management has the utmost contempt towards its various labor groups, especially the pilots. They see us as an adversary, not an asset.

Trips and lines have gotten worse over the years. We are all flying more block hours, with not much increase in credit time.

Our reserves are flying so much that they are almost like line holders.

Fatigue reports and calls have increased quite a bit over the past two years, especially among our reserve pilots.

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have come here. It's too late for me in life to leave. If I was 10-15 years younger and has only 3-5 years invested here, I would try to bolt.

Yes yes yes spot on

busbusbaby
11-04-2017, 01:23 PM
I think you get it quite well. The struggle in the future will be to not make demands for scope at the expense of other areas of the contract. It would be foolish to give up something else for scope at a time when the company couldn't possibly outsource significant flying due to the inability of regionals to hire. At a certain point it would be wise to call their bluff and say, "Go ahead. See how many regionals are beating down your door for AS flying." To do otherwise would be to let them put something in writing that they didn't have any reasonable expectation of carrying out anyway. The larger risk for AS pilots is that would outsource heavier jets. There is nothing in our contract that says they couldn't order 777's and operate them as "Alaskan Airlines" instead of Alaska. Coming to Alaska at a time of such great uncertainty when other carriers have mature union contracts would be unwise, in my opinion. I came here from a regional when the majors weren't hiring. I regret that decision, and the decision to not keep looking for better employment immensely. Not I'm a 50-year-old captain and I'm forced to think hard about leaving. A pension is worthless if the company goes bankrupt anyway. Alaska is poised to shrink if not go away. Do I quit or hope that someone buys us?

Leave if I could I would I still may leave itís harder with less than 12 years left. The leadership is delusional it will be ours and their downfall. Itís sad how this has played out.

ThePlaneSaidSo
11-04-2017, 03:33 PM
I donít think the mins will change yet. My guess would be the first if the year for the window to open again.



It was announced by the company that the mins will be reduced, sent out to all your pilots last month?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Packrat
11-05-2017, 06:49 AM
AAG management has the utmost contempt towards its various labor groups, especially the pilots. They see us as an adversary, not an asset.

Actually they see you as a liability to be minimized as opposed to an asset to be maximized. The opposite is what you'd find at a place like SWA.

denverpilot7
11-06-2017, 09:54 AM
It was announced by the company that the mins will be reduced, sent out to all your pilots last month?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

any truth to this?

Riverside
11-06-2017, 09:57 AM
any truth to this?

Not going to make much difference if they do.

Thrill
11-06-2017, 12:01 PM
Itís expected with the next application window opening that mins will be reduce to ďbe in line with industry normĒ whatever that means, and that the 4 year degree will be preferred, as opposed to required. Per a BCP, a lack of degree will have to be offset with experience and professional achievement, ie instructor, checkairman, etc....


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Ispeakjive
11-06-2017, 07:45 PM
Oh, it would be great until the shine wears off in 6 to 12 months. This is sub par airline. Horrible management, and weak pilot group. The middle of the pay scales are less than Hawaiian, but that's not even the biggest problem. We have zero scope, and it's going to bite us in the a$s. Management testified in the arbitration that scope will limit them from buying JetBlue or Hawaiian, and running them as a separate airline. Word is they also said that at the negotiating table, and that that is their ultimate goal. The air group would own JetBlue, but run Alaska separate in the Pacific Northwest, and grow JetBlue as the larger airline. If management wanted to they could order 100 more 737 or airbus and place them with another airline to fly as Alaska, and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Like I said before, avoid this place like the plague.
Thanks for agreeing with me. Because from day one, they'd be better off at AK/VS than at regional at $60-70K. They'll get a grown up type rating and by the time they have a chance to get really bitter, they'll move on.

ShyGuy
11-07-2017, 10:56 AM
Thanks for agreeing with me. Because from day one, they'd be better off at AK/VS than at regional at $60-70K. They'll get a grown up type rating and by the time they have a chance to get really bitter, they'll move on.

Next year 1st year FO pay goes to 89.89/hr. Assuming reserve first year at 79 hr guarantee, that's 85,216/yr. Throw in per diem, annual profit share, some other overages above 79 hrs, and you can see newhire first year FOs break $100k. I don't see this place struggling to attract pilots, at least not for 2018-2021.

Caveman
11-08-2017, 03:49 AM
I realized this has flipped/flopped recently...labeled as an ďexperimentĒ if I remember correctly......whatís the latest on Company provided hotel & trans during Initial training for new hires?

Work2much
11-08-2017, 05:50 AM
I realized this has flipped/flopped recently...labeled as an ďexperimentĒ if I remember correctly......whatís the latest on Company provided hotel & trans during Initial training for new hires?

As far as I understand the company is still offering hotels. I'm not sure it's in the experiment phase anymore. All of the classes since July have been getting hotels throughout training (except for OE).

SIUav8er
11-09-2017, 05:14 PM
They dumped the 4 year degree requirement. Interesting.

OCCP
11-09-2017, 05:54 PM
It shouldnít be interesting. They want to hire people who canít leave.

full of luv
11-10-2017, 04:52 AM
It shouldnít be interesting. They want to hire people who canít leave.

That seems to have been Spirit and Frontier's modus operandi for the last half decade at least.

OCCP
11-10-2017, 06:08 AM
At least spirit and frontier have growth so once they get a new contract all guys that upgraded quickly with be making more and have better career progression than everyone stuck here as an fo.

ThePlaneSaidSo
11-13-2017, 05:29 PM
Does AS typically make calls during an open window or wait for the window to close then call people?


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flysooner9
11-14-2017, 07:49 AM
Anyone know if the question of Boeing Vs Airbus on the app is a final choice or will that be determined in INDOC?

Pogey Bait
11-14-2017, 08:25 AM
Anyone know if the question of Boeing Vs Airbus on the app is a final choice or will that be determined in INDOC?

That is a real question on the application? Are you being serious?

Crew
11-14-2017, 08:45 AM
That is a real question on the application? Are you being serious?

Yes it is.. Although I am thinking, eventually the plan is to go all Boeing... they will let the Airbus leases mature and then phase them out.. at least that is what I am hearing. I think at the end of the day, it comes to the base you want. On the Airbus side, you may be able to hold LAX easier than if you were Boeing. Just my thoughts.

AltoCumulus
11-15-2017, 03:41 AM
Yes it is.. Although I am thinking, eventually the plan is to go all Boeing... they will let the Airbus leases mature and then phase them out.. at least that is what I am hearing. I think at the end of the day, it comes to the base you want. On the Airbus side, you may be able to hold LAX easier than if you were Boeing. Just my thoughts.

New hires are going to LAX at Alaska.

Jetflight77
11-15-2017, 03:56 AM
Hi Guys,

Quick question. Can anyone presently at Alaska please tell me if there are chances of me getting called with the below quals

7747 TT
Turbine Sic 6000+
2 type ratings A320, A330
Bachelor's degree
Prior US Marine
No TPIC
Pic Gen Aviation 1300
Would Alaska even take a look at me with no TPIC. Thank you.

FlyArmy11
11-15-2017, 05:56 AM
Are new hires going to be allowed to go to JFK under this new job announcement for Alaska/Virgin? If not now, how long until one can go to JFK as a new hire reserve or line holder? Are there any rumors of any additional Northeast bases on the horizon? Thanks!

Pogey Bait
11-15-2017, 06:39 AM
Are new hires going to be allowed to go to JFK under this new job announcement for Alaska/Virgin? If not now, how long until one can go to JFK as a new hire reserve or line holder? Are there any rumors of any additional Northeast bases on the horizon? Thanks!


Dude this is a west coast airline, plan on that and only that. The only way the east is going to open up is through merger or acquisition.

PotatoChip
11-15-2017, 06:41 AM
Dude this is a west coast airline, plan on that and only that. The only way the east is going to open up is through merger or acquisition.

What?
You mean like the one that already happened?? The one with an east coast base already in place?

ogilthorpe
11-15-2017, 06:54 AM
Hi Guys,

Quick question. Can anyone presently at Alaska please tell me if there are chances of me getting called with the below quals

7747 TT
Turbine Sic 6000+
2 type ratings A320, A330
Bachelor's degree
Prior US Marine
No TPIC
Pic Gen Aviation 1300
Would Alaska even take a look at me with no TPIC. Thank you.

Youíd have a chance, youíd need to do something to stand out like go to meet-and-greets or have internal recs to stand out, but I think if youíre currently flying those times would give you a chance.

Slim6890
11-15-2017, 06:58 AM
Are new hires going to be allowed to go to JFK under this new job announcement for Alaska/Virgin? If not now, how long until one can go to JFK as a new hire reserve or line holder? Are there any rumors of any additional Northeast bases on the horizon? Thanks!

Yes, you can get JFK base right out of training. Right now plan on being on reserve for a 1.5 years but it's dropping. No plans of another east coast base. Alaska justification for a base needs a minimum of 150 people, we currently have 112-120. So my guess they will add more boeing departure next year. Who knows & good luck!

PropStartMe
11-15-2017, 07:01 AM
Are new hires going to be allowed to go to JFK under this new job announcement for Alaska/Virgin? If not now, how long until one can go to JFK as a new hire reserve or line holder? Are there any rumors of any additional Northeast bases on the horizon? Thanks!

The following is cooy and pasted from AS's job vacancy. Has a lot of good information. I recommend it.

Boeing Fleet may be based in: ANC/LAX/PDX/SEA. Airbus Fleet may be based in: LAX/JFK/SFO

Must be comfortable with a domicile in Seattle, WA; Los Angeles, CA; Anchorage, AK; Portland, OR; San Francisco, CA; or New York, NY (JFK).

THE LOCATION
Must be comfortable accepting a domicile in Anchorage, AK; Los Angeles, CA; New York, NY; Portland, OR; San Francisco, CA; or Seattle, WA.

trip
11-15-2017, 07:02 AM
Just a heads up.
When filling out the application make sure you have completed everything and have looked it over before you click on the last page question circle "I agree- yes/no." Once you click that circle it sucks it into another dimension, even though there is a next/previous option on the bottom of that last page. I had left a college GPA box empty because I had to go look it up and figured I'd come back to that.
Is there an option to update your application?

Reactivity
11-15-2017, 07:37 AM
I had left a college GPA box empty because I had to go look it up and figured I'd come back to that.
Is there an option to update your application?

What is it with HR types and their love of a number that hasnít been relevant to anything Iíve done in the last 25 years? Anyway...

In the past there has not been an option to update an Alaska application once it has been submitted. But Iíd say that if it took the application without that particular bit of information, itís probably not something they consider mandatory and is not likely to cause a problem.

DangleDunlops
11-15-2017, 08:09 AM
Hi Guys,

Quick question. Can anyone presently at Alaska please tell me if there are chances of me getting called with the below quals

7747 TT
Turbine Sic 6000+
2 type ratings A320, A330
Bachelor's degree
Prior US Marine
No TPIC
Pic Gen Aviation 1300
Would Alaska even take a look at me with no TPIC. Thank you.

I think it begs the question: Why no TPIC with 7700+ hours? If you can provide a satisfactory answer to that in a cover letter, you might get some attention. It would be better backed with a letter from a captain on property, if you know one.

flycaptain
11-15-2017, 01:36 PM
Hi guy and gals,

Wanted your professional opinion,

B777 captain overseas
Few type ratings
Mid 40s
13000 total
7000 pic (widebody and narrowbody)
NO 4 year uni
Southern cali resident

What's chances getting a call?
wise decision to apply?
How long to upgrade?
LAX availability? And if so would it ever get closed? Not open to commute
QOL? (family comes first at this stage in my life)

Thanks much , appreciate everyone's time and honest opinion.

Packrat
11-15-2017, 02:28 PM
Hi guy and gals,

Wanted your professional opinion,

B777 captain overseas
Few type ratings
Mid 40s
13000 total
7000 pic (widebody and narrowbody)
NO 4 year uni
Southern cali resident

What's chances getting a call?
wise decision to apply?
How long to upgrade?
LAX availability? And if so would it ever get closed? Not open to commute
QOL? (family comes first at this stage in my life)

Thanks much , appreciate everyone's time and honest opinion.

Now that its degree preferred and not required, I think you have a decent chance. I'd apply if I were you.

QOL HAS to be better than commuting overseas.

GUFN
11-15-2017, 03:31 PM
What's chances getting a call?
wise decision to apply?
.

If you donít apply, you wonít get the call. If you want the prize, roll the dice.

OCCP
11-15-2017, 05:06 PM
If you donít apply, you wonít get the call. If you want the prize, roll the dice.


Prize? Really?

This place is far from a prize. Still subpar pay, no scope, no growth and a pos contract made possible by 85 years of no backbone. We are ending service to some markets and cutting redeyes. Yeah man, total prize.

PNWFlyer
11-15-2017, 06:45 PM
Prize? Really?

This place is far from a prize. Still subpar pay, no scope, no growth and a pos contract made possible by 85 years of no backbone. We are ending service to some markets and cutting redeyes. Yeah man, total prize.

Go away!!!!

OCCP
11-15-2017, 07:44 PM
Go away!!!!



What? Are you afraid of the truth?

Dhood84
11-15-2017, 10:25 PM
Because every other contract at the big 5 is perfect with no flaws whatsoever? Come on man, we all know youíre upset, but letís be real....Alaska is still a great company to work for. Not just a biased opinion, but from a lot of close friends who have been there for a long time.

DH

ImperialxRat
11-16-2017, 08:23 AM
Prize? Really?

This place is far from a prize. Still subpar pay, no scope, no growth and a pos contract made possible by 85 years of no backbone. We are ending service to some markets and cutting redeyes. Yeah man, total prize.

You donít consider the Q400 going to 88 seats growth? Thatís like... a ton of growth.

42FLyer
11-17-2017, 12:28 PM
Just received link for this assessment prior to interview - has anyone taken this? Any insight?

Ohlsan
11-17-2017, 07:48 PM
Just received link for this assessment prior to interview - has anyone taken this? Any insight?

Sorry canít answer your question, but maybe you can answer mine....

Did you just apply under this announcement?

Can you give us a general overview of your stats so we can see what Alaska is looking for?

42FLyer
11-17-2017, 09:17 PM
Sorry - new to forum, not adept at how to include prior question...

I actually applied to Virgin in September.

7000 total time
3000 turbine PIC
CFI
1 internal rec, 1 from my current Chief Pilot

Just got a call today for Dec interview in SEA - they sent link to personality assessment - looking for more info before i dive in!

Kitchen25
11-17-2017, 09:31 PM
Sorry - new to forum, not adept at how to include prior question...

I actually applied to Virgin in September.

7000 total time
3000 turbine PIC
CFI
1 internal rec, 1 from my current Chief Pilot

Just got a call today for Dec interview in SEA - they sent link to personality assessment - looking for more info before i dive in!



Just be honest with the personality assessment. From my understanding, it has no weight on if youíre hired and they might use it to help them decide on some interview questions.

42FLyer
11-20-2017, 12:14 PM
Just be honest with the personality assessment. From my understanding, it has no weight on if youíre hired and they might use it to help them decide on some interview questions.

Thank you!

Reactivity
11-20-2017, 01:27 PM
I had left a college GPA box empty because I had to go look it up and figured I'd come back to that.
Is there an option to update your application?

I just completed the application myself. That box was not marked as mandatory, and because my college GPA is not something I crow about, I left it blank. If they really want to know what it is, they will either mark it as mandatory or they'll ask for my college transcripts (as pretty much everybody is doing in interviews now), and we'll talk about it in an environment where I can present it in the best possible light.

AltoCumulus
11-22-2017, 01:47 PM
I just completed the application myself. That box was not marked as mandatory, and because my college GPA is not something I crow about, I left it blank. If they really want to know what it is, they will either mark it as mandatory or they'll ask for my college transcripts (as pretty much everybody is doing in interviews now), and we'll talk about it in an environment where I can present it in the best possible light.


Or you might not make it past the filter on the computerized search. It would be a shame if you didn't get called because their filter called for a "2.0 or above" and the computer skipped over you. All because you were ashamed about your 2.5.

I would be very reluctant to leave out any objective facts since GPA is the exact type of objectively scorable thing they are likely using to wittle down the applications.

Pailaka
11-22-2017, 04:07 PM
Anyone know when we may be able to hear something from this last posting?

Reactivity
11-22-2017, 04:36 PM
Anyone know when we may be able to hear something from this last posting?

You'll hear something when your phone rings. That may be tomorrow, or it may be never. I've been waiting four years (even before they started asking for GPA), and I have multiple internal recommendations. Virgin America called me in no time with only a single internal recommendation.

My advice: Don't think about it until the phone rings. You'll live happier.

OCCP
11-22-2017, 07:27 PM
My advice: Focus your job hunting elsewhere. Youíll live happier.

EA CO AS
11-22-2017, 07:32 PM
Best of luck to those of you who choose to apply! I may be in the minority here, but as a 25 year employee of Alaska Airlines, I truly believe we have a great family here, and I look forward to seeing you out on the line as co-workers. We're building something special here, and I'm glad many of you want to be a part of it.

ThePlaneSaidSo
11-22-2017, 08:27 PM
For anybody recently called on this window, how long after you applied and how much notice? Thanks!!


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2loud
11-22-2017, 08:57 PM
Best of luck to those of you who choose to apply! I may be in the minority here, but as a 25 year employee of Alaska Airlines, I truly believe we have a great family here, and I look forward to seeing you out on the line as co-workers. We're building something special here, and I'm glad many of you want to be a part of it.

Family? Seriously? Even Jerry Springer wouldnít be allowed to host the Alaskan family. Special? Special Ed!

ExperimentalAB
11-23-2017, 12:44 PM
Best of luck to those of you who choose to apply! I may be in the minority here, but as a 25 year employee of Alaska Airlines, I truly believe we have a great family here, and I look forward to seeing you out on the line as co-workers. We're building something special here, and I'm glad many of you want to be a part of it.

Don't ever make the mistake of thinking of work as family. I generally enjoy the people I work with, but they are coworkers and absolutely nothing more. Save your emotional attachments for those that will actually be at your deathbed.

FlyAK
11-23-2017, 02:04 PM
Best of luck to those of you who choose to apply! I may be in the minority here, but as a 25 year employee of Alaska Airlines, I truly believe we have a great family here, and I look forward to seeing you out on the line as co-workers. We're building something special here, and I'm glad many of you want to be a part of it.

Iím curious what you think is ďspecialĒ about what we are building here?

PropStartMe
11-23-2017, 07:59 PM
What did C.P. RL mean when he said "Nov 7-8"?

"We continue to hire at a great pace, brining on approx. 45 pilots to the Air Group Nov 7-8. There are still four hiring sessions remaining in 2017, looking to add another 90+."

AS didn't bring on 45 pilots in 2 days (11/7-11/8). Anyone know what he means?

waterboy
11-23-2017, 09:49 PM
Iím curious what you think is ďspecialĒ about what we are building here?

EA CO AS,
I am very curious as well. What do you see that is so special?

Is it AS buying VX, stripping it of almost everything ďguestsĒ loved about the airline except for the mood lighting and losing market share On those routes?

Or

****ing off its Second largest work group, and saying in arbitration that itís willing to risk that to save a few dollars?

Or

is it the over 30% decline in stock price in 4 months?

Iím not trying to be a jerk. Just really curious about what you see on the horizon that I donít.

EA CO AS
11-23-2017, 10:14 PM
Iím not trying to be a jerk. Just really curious about what you see on the horizon that I donít.

You're actually being far more civil than many others here, which I appreciate.

I guess I'm just looking at the big, long-term picture. I'm talking the next 5 to 15 years and beyond. I see AS getting squeezed on all sides by DL in SEA, UA in SFO, AA in LAX, WN, well, pretty much everywhere, and the only thing that will keep AS alive will be great service and low fares.

And right now AS enjoys a CASM advantage of anywhere from 20% or better over those carriers, meaning we can hang on longer in a low fare environment than they can. In addition, we didn't make the colossal mistake of chasing after premium transcon traffic with a small, expensive sub-fleet of dedicated transcon aircraft that you can't plug into the rest of the network when needed. I really think that is going to be a big leg up going forward.

I also see potential aircraft orders on the horizon that can help; we may keep or even expand the A321NEO fleet, but I see great interest in the MOM project down the line, and possibly even CS300 equipment on mainline routes at some point. I see a future with 100 new mainline aircraft on the property in the next 5-7 years.

But we won't get there if we can't remain competitive while also offering a great product.

OCCP
11-24-2017, 06:06 AM
That sounds like a management email

barondrvr
11-24-2017, 07:48 AM
You're actually being far more civil than many others here, which I appreciate.

I guess I'm just looking at the big, long-term picture. I'm talking the next 5 to 15 years and beyond. I see AS getting squeezed on all sides by DL in SEA, UA in SFO, AA in LAX, WN, well, pretty much everywhere, and the only thing that will keep AS alive will be great service and low fares.

And right now AS enjoys a CASM advantage of anywhere from 20% or better over those carriers, meaning we can hang on longer in a low fare environment than they can. In addition, we didn't make the colossal mistake of chasing after premium transcon traffic with a small, expensive sub-fleet of dedicated transcon aircraft that you can't plug into the rest of the network when needed. I really think that is going to be a big leg up going forward.

I also see potential aircraft orders on the horizon that can help; we may keep or even expand the A321NEO fleet, but I see great interest in the MOM project down the line, and possibly even CS300 equipment on mainline routes at some point. I see a future with 100 new mainline aircraft on the property in the next 5-7 years.

But we won't get there if we can't remain competitive while also offering a great product.

I don't think I've actually posted since I flew a Baron. Since you're not a pilot, it's a small twin piston engine plane, usually flown at night solo to build hours in thunderstorms and ice... solo to make less than $20,000 after paying over $100,000 to get the training or dedicating years of service in our military. We do these things to get to where are now because we are professionals,we pride ourselves on being the best, and we love our profession...Not our job, but our profession.

To your point about the transcon market. You speak in numbers and power points. Thats good to a certain extent if you're in a meeting.In the real world, especially in SF/LA, those markets don't cater to the Alaska product(no offense) compared to the value a Virgin aircraft offers. Those people will pay a slightly upward premium and I feel Alaska is throwing that away as a result and our people will go to Jetblue Mint, DL lie flat seats etc.

I'm a Virgin guy. I know what I signed up for and I know Im lucky for the chance to join a quality group of pilots at Alaska with their benefits of a new contract.

That being said, we are ALL in this together.

To the second point, we will NOT remain competitive when management overwhelming ****es off their pilot workforce. The workforce that Brad said in his email the other day that are really the Captains of the operation. All their actions in the last year say otherwise in an effort to save a few bucks and undermine what Alaska has built over the years.

Until that changes, my Orange lanyard stays on

Reactivity
11-24-2017, 03:55 PM
Until that changes, my Orange lanyard stays on

Yeah! You tell 'em! Nobody disrespects the orange lanyard!

OCCP
11-24-2017, 05:03 PM
The company hates the lanyards. Remember tkís stupid email months ago when he ordered us to ďstand downĒ on the lanyards. I hope we wear them for a long time. Iím going to spray paint my suitcase Orange just to **** them off.

SmoothLanderJ
11-24-2017, 05:31 PM
You're actually being far more civil than many others here, which I appreciate.

I guess I'm just looking at the big, long-term picture. I'm talking the next 5 to 15 years and beyond. I see AS getting squeezed on all sides by DL in SEA, UA in SFO, AA in LAX, WN, well, pretty much everywhere, and the only thing that will keep AS alive will be great service and low fares.

And right now AS enjoys a CASM advantage of anywhere from 20% or better over those carriers, meaning we can hang on longer in a low fare environment than they can. In addition, we didn't make the colossal mistake of chasing after premium transcon traffic with a small, expensive sub-fleet of dedicated transcon aircraft that you can't plug into the rest of the network when needed. I really think that is going to be a big leg up going forward.

I also see potential aircraft orders on the horizon that can help; we may keep or even expand the A321NEO fleet, but I see great interest in the MOM project down the line, and possibly even CS300 equipment on mainline routes at some point. I see a future with 100 new mainline aircraft on the property in the next 5-7 years.

But we won't get there if we can't remain competitive while also offering a great product.

Good grief itís like Iím reading the arbitration transcripts from Alaska management all over again..:rolleyes:

Wynncore
11-25-2017, 09:59 PM
I also see potential aircraft orders on the horizon that can help; we may keep or even expand the A321NEO fleet, but I see great interest in the MOM project down the line, and possibly even CS300 equipment on mainline routes at some point. I see a future with 100 new mainline aircraft on the property in the next 5-7 years.

But we won't get there if we can't remain competitive while also offering a great product.

LOL. The CS300 will likely be flown on the RJ level by OO or QX. If they're not, these aircraft will be used as a threat against the AS/VX pilot group in 2020 to force us to vote away the DB plan, accept PBS on management's terms and accept minimal work rule and pay improvements in Contract 2020. Either we accept that or the C Series et al will go to OO or QX. Oh yeah, and did I mention that we still won't have scope?

Without scope we are nothing, combine the fact that we work for Alaska Air Group (not Alaska Airlines) makes the lack of scope that much more back breaking. This management team is stuck in 2010 and they're setting this once proud airline up to fail the same way QX has. Good luck to everyone trying to leave.

OCCP
11-26-2017, 12:55 AM
Wow Wynncore, two months ago you were a complete company boy. Nice to see youíve opened your eyes!

Wynncore
11-27-2017, 09:29 AM
Wow Wynncore, two months ago you were a complete company boy. Nice to see youíve opened your eyes!

No, I just don't join in on the over the top negativity that some on here propagate. AS has its problems but it isn't this wasteland that some people so desperately want it to be.

full of luv
11-27-2017, 11:40 AM
No, I just don't join in on the over the top negativity that some on here propagate. AS has its problems but it isn't this wasteland that some people so desperately want it to be.

I don't even work there and I sincerely hope AS becomes the new beacon for 737 pilots around the world in pay, work rules and scope!

Wynncore
11-27-2017, 01:43 PM
I don't even work there and I sincerely hope AS becomes the new beacon for 737 pilots around the world in pay, work rules and scope!

It won't. Scope won't come on property unless we allow the C Series et al to be flown by QX or OO. Only then, after QX and OO are flying those aircraft will Angle Lake give in on scope. Naturally, after allowing scope on property they'll force us to take less in pay and accept minimal work rule improvements. Alaska is no longer a career airline, it's a proving ground for the big 3 and SWA. Come here, get the type, apply elsewhere and leave. DAL and SWA have all the reason in the world to hire AS pilots and from what I understand they're doing just that. The bottom 500 numbers of this seniority list will be a revolving door...as it rightfully should be.

seattlepilot
11-27-2017, 04:09 PM
OO won't be able to fly CS300 currently , it violates the scope of their other codeshare partners.
Now, if they go and buy the VX AOC and then operate it under their holding, that's a different story. Then responsability falls under the OO pilots in terms of scope violation. We know how much of a kool-aid drinker they are though..

waterboy
11-27-2017, 06:20 PM
OO won't be able to fly CS300 currently , it violates the scope of their other codeshare partners.
Now, if they go and buy the VX AOC and then operate it under their holding, that's a different story. Then responsability falls under the OO pilots in terms of scope violation. We know how much of a kool-aid drinker they are though..

Couldnít they transfer all current flying on express jet over to Skywest, then fly it under the Expressjet cert?

snackysmores
11-27-2017, 06:34 PM
Couldnít they transfer all current flying on express jet over to Skywest, then fly it under the Expressjet cert?

Whatever scheme they tried, the end result would be the same... P!ssing off DAL and UA. If it was going to happen Qx would likely be the ones getting them.

Wynncore
11-27-2017, 08:54 PM
All it takes is a team of attorneys and a check to "get around" the issue that you mentioned re: OO and their supposed inability to fly the CS300. Just like the line from Jurassic Park: "Life finds a way..." The same principle applies here...AS management will find a way to make it happen...make no mistake about it. Additionally for those of you who'll claim "QX and OO won't find pilots" think again, they always do, somehow.

The CS300 can fly 3,300NM and is perfect for long and thin routes such as SEA-SAV, SEA-BDL, SEA-JAX etc and is an ideal airplane for SE Alaska and the Arctic flying. Why pay mainline AS costs when you can do it for 50%-60% less with QX and OO?

Either AS pilots fly the CS300 et al and accept no or minimal work rule improvements in Contract 2020, PBS on AS management's terms and agree to do away with the pre merger AS DB plan or these airplanes will go to OO/QX. Management's leverage over us in Contract 2020 comes in this form...they refused to negotiate on scope this last round for a reason.

If you're not alarmed about the lack of scope at this airline you should start to worry. Remember, we work for Alaska Air Group, not Alaska Airlines...the BoD and management do what is best for Alaska Air Group and if that means growing QX and OO so be it.

rickair7777
11-28-2017, 06:04 AM
Whatever scheme they tried, the end result would be the same... P!ssing off DAL and UA. If it was going to happen Qx would likely be the ones getting them.

Yeah. I think the DAL scope is pretty darn tight, and won't allow alter-ego certificates.

Also, I think the regional industry is cruising for a bruising... positive growth trends plus negative recruiting trends is a bad combo. Might get interesting when the latest barrel scrapings upgrade in a year or two. Smart regional managers are probably going to need to temper their own growth opportunities, for operational risk management reasons. Smart mainline managers will keep a close eye on the chances that regionals are taking with their brand.

GoVandals
11-29-2017, 09:57 AM
Has anyone heard back following the current application window?

Reactivity
11-29-2017, 10:06 AM
Has anyone heard back following the current application window?

Well, it only just closed six days ago, so....

Just slow down and chill out. You'll live longer.

Riverside
11-29-2017, 11:36 AM
Has anyone heard back following the current application window?


Take the vandals current losing streak. Times it by 3 and that's about how many months it takes for AS to get back to you.

full of luv
11-29-2017, 06:10 PM
Take the vandals current losing streak. Times it by 3 and that's about how many months it takes for AS to get back to you.

Ooouuuccccchhh!

Flitestar
12-02-2017, 04:33 PM
...Either AS pilots fly the CS300 et al and accept no or minimal work rule improvements in Contract 2020, PBS on AS management's terms and agree to do away with the pre merger AS DB plan or these airplanes will go to OO/QX. Management's leverage over us in Contract 2020 comes in this form...they refused to negotiate on scope this last round for a reason.

This ^^^^

Most people around here donít seem to understand that not getting any scope this time around not only left us without job protection, but also eliminated any potential leverage the pilots may have had for 2020 ďnegotiationĒ.

Jetlife
12-02-2017, 04:38 PM
This ^^^^

Most people around here donít seem to understand that not getting any scope this time around not only left us without job protection, but also eliminated any potential leverage the pilots may have had for 2020 ďnegotiationĒ.

I would argue that it gave us all the leverage in the world. Management knows we will take it all the way for scope.

TalkTurkey
12-02-2017, 06:07 PM
I see a future of 400 Boeing 797-XWB aircraft flying interstellar virgin routes. See, I can do that too.

Wynncore
12-02-2017, 08:23 PM
I would argue that it gave us all the leverage in the world. Management knows we will take it all the way for scope.

I don't follow your logic? Without ANY scope protection AS management can place the CS300 et al with OO or QX without even negotiating with us in the first place.

I'll say it another way: AS management can legally bypass the AS pilot group and place the CS300 et al with QX or OO without our input, opinion or council. Once again, Alaska pilots DO NOT HAVE ANY SCOPE PROTECTION which means it is 100% legal for our management team to place these aircraft with QX or OO and announce the news on our intranet. If you do not think that they'll do this you're living in another world.

However, I believe that they WILL negotiate with us by threatening to place the CS300 et al with OO or QX unless we agree to minimal (or no) pay increases and minimal (or no) work rule improvements. Regardless of the fight that we put up there is NOTHING we can do as a pilot group to prevent them from placing the CS300 et al with QX or OO. What are we going to do? Have a massive sick out? Write up nit picky items? Please, at the end of the day people still need to get paid and we all will fall into line at some point. Keep in mind that our COO is ON RECORD stating that the company is willing to risk its relationship with the pilot group in order to achieve and execute on their business plan. Remember, we work for Alaska AIR GROUP and our management team does what is best for Alaska AIR GROUP, not Alaska Airlines.

PNWFlyer
12-03-2017, 08:33 AM
I don't follow your logic? Without ANY scope protection AS management can place the CS300 et al with OO or QX without even negotiating with us in the first place.

I'll say it another way: AS management can legally bypass the AS pilot group and place the CS300 et al with QX or OO without our input, opinion or council. Once again, Alaska pilots DO NOT HAVE ANY SCOPE PROTECTION which means it is 100% legal for our management team to place these aircraft with QX or OO and announce the news on our intranet. If you do not think that they'll do this you're living in another world.

However, I believe that they WILL negotiate with us by threatening to place the CS300 et al with OO or QX unless we agree to minimal (or no) pay increases and minimal (or no) work rule improvements. Regardless of the fight that we put up there is NOTHING we can do as a pilot group to prevent them from placing the CS300 et al with QX or OO. What are we going to do? Have a massive sick out? Write up nit picky items? Please, at the end of the day people still need to get paid and we all will fall into line at some point. Keep in mind that our COO is ON RECORD stating that the company is willing to risk its relationship with the pilot group in order to achieve and execute on their business plan. Remember, we work for Alaska AIR GROUP and our management team does what is best for Alaska AIR GROUP, not Alaska Airlines.


For the 6th Billionth time, AGA can't put the CS300 or any other similar aircraft with OO because of their scope agreements with other airlines that have scope. We have limited 3rd party scope protection.


Horizon is a different story, but they do not scare me that much.

jayme
12-03-2017, 09:14 AM
The day that happens Iím out of this place. Management can do whatever they want, but we all know what the consequences will be.

As for negotiating, it will be a stalemate unless we get improvements AND scope. Then it comes down to whether or not the NMB will let us strike. Vote wisely in 2020.

Wynncore
12-03-2017, 09:42 AM
For the 6th Billionth time, AGA can't put the CS300 or any other similar aircraft with OO because of their scope agreements with other airlines that have scope. We have limited 3rd party scope protection.


Horizon is a different story, but they do not scare me that much.

This kind of thinking is exactly why we find ourselves in the position in which we do. "They can't do it...they wouldn't do it...don't worry, it will never happen because of such and such agreement..."

In regards to your last line above concerning Horizon: WOW.

Wynncore
12-03-2017, 10:00 AM
The day that happens Iím out of this place. Management can do whatever they want, but we all know what the consequences will be.

As for negotiating, it will be a stalemate unless we get improvements AND scope. Then it comes down to whether or not the NMB will let us strike. Vote wisely in 2020.

It doesn't matter what the consequences will be. AAG does not care for or respect the AS pilot group. We are simply a cost to them, a cost which by the way just increased far more than they wanted it to. Contract 2020 is going to be a bitter, hateful and nasty fight. Apply, interview and leave now instead of waiting until 2020 to only be disappointed and compensated 92% of what everyone else makes.

jayme
12-03-2017, 10:31 AM
Good advice. Are you following it?

OCCP
12-03-2017, 10:37 AM
The day that happens Iím out of this place. Management can do whatever they want, but we all know what the consequences will be.







The attrition numbers simply donít support statements like this. I wish they did. For years people have been threatening to leave, and I still do but it isnít that easy unless you want to go work at a regional. I donít know if youíre a ca or fo but a few thousand hours of A320 sic isnít doing anything for my job hunting.

2loud
12-03-2017, 10:49 AM
The day that happens Iím out of this place. Management can do whatever they want, but we all know what the consequences will be.

As for negotiating, it will be a stalemate unless we get improvements AND scope. Then it comes down to whether or not the NMB will let us strike. Vote wisely in 2020.
Why havenít you left already? The wise, willing, and able are gone already. The writing on wall is so old that itís fading, buddy.

jayme
12-03-2017, 11:00 AM
Iím working on an exit plan. If scope isnít fixed and they do anything worse than what reasonable scope would have prevented, Iíll walk.

Jetlife
12-03-2017, 02:17 PM
I don't follow your logic? Without ANY scope protection AS management can place the CS300 et al with OO or QX without even negotiating with us in the first place.



Not exactly. My point is, there is no arbitration to rule in 2020. If the pilot group is unified and wants it bad enough, scope will be achieved.

I don't think we give enough credit to the ramifications of violating basic universal scope recognized by ALPA and every domestic airline. I am not saying they won't do it, but lets really appreciate the severity of doing so from an industry standpoint.

Wynncore
12-03-2017, 07:11 PM
Not exactly. My point is, there is no arbitration to rule in 2020. If the pilot group is unified and wants it bad enough, scope will be achieved.

I don't think we give enough credit to the ramifications of violating basic universal scope recognized by ALPA and every domestic airline. I am not saying they won't do it, but lets really appreciate the severity of doing so from an industry standpoint.

I appreciate the way in which you are looking at it, I really do. I want to think along the same lines but regardless of how united we are I truly think that our management team would rather see the company burn down than to ever allow scope on property. Never in the history of this company has it operated under any scope provisions and from the way they have most recently acted they aren't planning on having scope on property for a very long time, if ever.

You are right though, perhaps it can be worked out in a negotiation which brings me back to my original point: It will be worked out on their terms and AFTER we accept minimal (or no) pay improvements, minimal (or no) work rule improvements, PBS on their terms and a pilot wide vote to get rid of the pre merger AS DB plan. Sadly, even if we accept all of that they still could place the CS300 et al with a regional partner.

They hold all the leverage and have demonstrated they are willing to take this company over the edge "to prove a point."

waterboy
12-03-2017, 09:45 PM
I appreciate the way in which you are looking at it, I really do. I want to think along the same lines but regardless of how united we are I truly think that our management team would rather see the company burn down than to ever allow scope on property. Never in the history of this company has it operated under any scope provisions and from the way they have most recently acted they aren't planning on having scope on property for a very long time, if ever.

You are right though, perhaps it can be worked out in a negotiation which brings me back to my original point: It will be worked out on their terms and AFTER we accept minimal (or no) pay improvements, minimal (or no) work rule improvements, PBS on their terms and a pilot wide vote to get rid of the pre merger AS DB plan. Sadly, even if we accept all of that they still could place the CS300 et al with a regional partner.

They hold all the leverage and have demonstrated they are willing to take this company over the edge "to prove a point."

You are speaking in hyperbole, right?

"I truly think that our management team would rather see the company burn down than to ever allow scope on property

A company that is paying almost a 2% dividend, and has made over $800M per year over that last 2 years, and boasts about industry leading profit margins of over 20%, would rather burn this place down?

Its that attitude that has kept Alaska Management succesful in keeping scope out of all previous CBAs.

Wynncore
12-04-2017, 06:05 AM
You are speaking in hyperbole, right?

"I truly think that our management team would rather see the company burn down than to ever allow scope on property

A company that is paying almost a 2% dividend, and has made over $800M per year over that last 2 years, and boasts about industry leading profit margins of over 20%, would rather burn this place down?

Its that attitude that has kept Alaska Management succesful in keeping scope out of all previous CBAs.

Yes, I am speaking in hyperbole. My point was moreso that I believe management is willing to accept lower operational performance and a potentially permanently damaged relationship with its pilot group in order to keep scope off property, amongst other things.

busbusbaby
12-04-2017, 09:42 AM
Yes, I am speaking in hyperbole. My point was moreso that I believe management is willing to accept lower operational performance and a potentially permanently damaged relationship with its pilot group in order to keep scope off property, amongst other things.


It has to be voted in, and by the time we get to it. Most of the yes men will hopefully be gone. Like skank in the crow says.
https://youtu.be/jLW5PyjOoAk

IABtankertoad
12-04-2017, 04:42 PM
Has anyone heard anything from the last application window yet?

Reactivity
12-04-2017, 04:50 PM
Has anyone heard anything from the last application window yet?

Dude.

I refer you to this one (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2474183-post2654.html) and subsequent replies.

Riverside
12-04-2017, 08:26 PM
Dude.

I refer you to this one (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2474183-post2654.html) and subsequent replies.

But but but. He wants to be an Alaska pilot like right meow. BTW toad your name isn't Bill is it?

OCCP
12-04-2017, 08:37 PM
I feel sorry for him. Heís probably a mil guy completely clueless about the 121 world. He needs to set his sights higher, unless his goal is to be at the bottom of a rudderless ship

Reactivity
12-05-2017, 02:58 AM
But but but. He wants to be an Alaska pilot like right meow.

I'm pushing 50 and should be in a bigger hurry than anyone to get to wherever I'm finally going to land. But if there is anything I've learned in the four years I've been applying to Alaska and doing all of those things that are supposed to get you hired, it is that it simply doesn't pay to get in a hurry with this company. You can have multiple ins and it can still take years to get a call, if the call ever comes at all.

Just chill. You will live happier.

seattlepilot
12-11-2017, 10:00 AM
I'm pushing 50 and should be in a bigger hurry than anyone to get to wherever I'm finally going to land. But if there is anything I've learned in the four years I've been applying to Alaska and doing all of those things that are supposed to get you hired, it is that it simply doesn't pay to get in a hurry with this company. You can have multiple ins and it can still take years to get a call, if the call ever comes at all.

Just chill. You will live happier.I am in thr same age group. For last 5 years i have been applying i have been hearing :
- why havent you upgraded yet? (Clueless about 2008)
- dont even bother applying without ay least 1000 tpic.

Now, all the people that started 10-15 years after me are employed by Alaska. I dont think alaska likes our age group :(

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Reactivity
12-11-2017, 12:40 PM
I dont think alaska likes our age group

I don't think that's the case. There are plenty of 50ish getting hired there. I personally know a guy around that age who just recently finished training at Virgin America. There were a few in the group I interviewed with this past week for Virgin America. I don't know whether they got an offer or not. I did not.

Some people just don't do the airline-style interview well. I'm one of them.

Pogey Bait
12-12-2017, 03:12 AM
I don't think that's the case. There are plenty of 50ish getting hired there. I personally know a guy around that age who just recently finished training at Virgin America. There were a few in the group I interviewed with this past week for Virgin America. I don't know whether they got an offer or not. I did not.

Some people just don't do the airline-style interview well. I'm one of them.

Go and get some help with that through one of the interview prep companyís out there.

Reactivity
12-12-2017, 05:09 AM
Go and get some help with that through one of the interview prep companyís out there.

Heh. I did. Iíve never felt so well-prepared for an interview, and I actually thought it went well.

silver fleet
12-12-2017, 05:40 AM
Heh. I did. Iíve never felt so well-prepared for an interview, and I actually thought it went well.

I did the same thing, lots of prep, felt the interviews went well, but still no offers. I havenít been called by AS to interview, Iím sharing my experience from previous interviews last year.
The new HR model is extremely frustrating in regards to perception of our profession and itís roadblocks of the last decade, hang in there.....

ImperialxRat
12-12-2017, 10:54 AM
I am in thr same age group. For last 5 years i have been applying i have been hearing :
- why havent you upgraded yet? (Clueless about 2008)
- dont even bother applying without ay least 1000 tpic.

Now, all the people that started 10-15 years after me are employed by Alaska. I dont think alaska likes our age group :(

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

That is really frustrating :(

I came from corporate / charter and whenever I would talk to the Big 3 they would ask me if I have considered working for Skywest because they really like hiring Skywest pilots. I had spent 3 years at ExpressJet previously, so had regional experience and was a light jet Captain in Part 91 and 135... it is what it is. Alaska was the only airline that saw my corporate and charter experience as a positive - good customer service skills.

Anyway, that was a tangent I didn't mean to go down... it's frustrating to try and see what these companies are looking for, but in my new hire class at Alaska we had two people over 50 years old and two people in their late 40's, so don't give up hope yet.

Ronin47
12-13-2017, 07:46 AM
Anyone get a call from the last window in October? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Hang em High
12-13-2017, 01:29 PM
Anyone get a call from the last window in October? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

I haven't heard a Peep.....

OCCP
12-13-2017, 06:41 PM
Clueless hiring from a clueless airline. Sounds about right

PNWFlyer
12-14-2017, 05:53 PM
Clueless hiring from a clueless airline. Sounds about right

Clueless post from a clueless troll.

OCCP
12-14-2017, 08:25 PM
No troll here. Itís the truth

Klsytakesit
12-14-2017, 09:37 PM
Clueless post from a clueless troll.
Our new management troll. You must work in Tom Kempís office. We change our pilot hiring methods every 90 days....Our resume aplication system is not quite as modern as a floppy disk. The HR reps are embarrasing how little they know and the pilots that do interviews act like it is part NASA part dream job. Those stories are all from successful applicants so I can only imagine what the others go through. Awful lot of hushed tones and hand wringing over the employee survey by the change janglin heel rockers that run this place....

PropStartMe
12-15-2017, 06:42 AM
Our new management troll. You must work in Tom Kempís office. We change our pilot hiring methods every 90 days....Our resume aplication system is not quite as modern as a floppy disk. The HR reps are embarrasing how little they know and the pilots that do interviews act like it is part NASA part dream job. Those stories are all from successful applicants so I can only imagine what the others go through. Awful lot of hushed tones and hand wringing over the employee survey by the change janglin heel rockers that run this place....

Klsytakesit and OCCP are drinking buddies.

juventus
12-15-2017, 07:09 AM
I donít know about Alaska hr people , but Virgin hr that joined the recruiting team in Seattle, are top notch, in my opinion.

ForeverJunior
12-15-2017, 07:40 AM
I'm not drinking buddies with either OCCP or Klsytakesit. But, what they are saying is true.

It's hard to believe for those of you on the outside looking in. But, there are many other options out there than this place. It took some of us years of being in here to realize that. Before I got hired here, I talked to random Alaska pilots either in the jumpseat or on the employee bus, etc. Many of them were unhappy. I didn't believe them, because I thought they were just whining.

No work place is going to be perfect, but there are other/better options out there. If you can get hired at DAL/AMR/WN/UAL/FedEx, I don't know why you would even bother with Alaska.

Alaska management's utter contempt towards its employees, especially the pilots, is what makes working here unpleasant. The AAG management team is a bunch of bean counters. All they care about is cost and performance metrics. They don't have a clue about the human factors that go into running a business, especially a customer-service business like an airline. There is no real leadership here.

They have gotten away with squeezing a turnip for too long, but I think it's going to blow up in their faces. They have gotten too comfortable with the old way of doing things and having good little soldiers on the front lines that picked up the slack. Well, those practices have eroded the morale of the employee group.

Klystakesit touched on the employee survey. The results were not at all good for management. But, they don't address the problem the way they should. They just say "GO TEAM; LET'S ALL JUST PULL TOGETHER AND GET THROUGH THIS TOUGH TIME!" Or... "We'll do a better job of communicating with you."

No, we don't need rah-rah speech or a pat on the back. We don't need to be told what a wonderful job we're doing. The only language most of us understand is pay and quality of life. Good pairings, good hotels, time off, and schedule flexibility. We don't get much of that. Even those of us who are fairly senior in our seat and base feel fatigued. Unless you can hold turns, it's hard to massage your schedule.

Anyway, AAG keeps trying to do everything on the cheap, even though they are making record profits. Then, they complain about how our competition is ratcheting things up (see Tilden's E-Mail). Well, other airlines have figured out what passengers like and they provide those amenities. We do not.

We rely on the fantastic service that our FAs provide. That's great, but how long is that going to last?

In any case, I'm not optimistic that things will change here any time soon, especially with this pilot group. We still have those good little soldiers who bail out the company when the company has failed in their staffing model. Premium trips get covered like never before, so what's the incentive for AAG to negotiate with this pilot group? They manage our expectations. We whine and pound our fists on the table. But, we take it when we get awarded an arbitration ruling. Or, we vote for the very first sub-standard TA that is presented to us.

We will not gain ground on the pilots of the real legacy airlines with our current attitude. We need a lot of improvements to our contract, but this pilot group doesn't have the stomach to vote NO or do what it takes to convince management that we're not going to settle for being #5, etc.

Alaska Airlines is feeling more and more like the regional I came from. It's a lot of rah-rah and "YAY TEAM" BS being pumped out. Just look at our company website. I cringe every time I get on there. It's a bunch of high school type BS being put up there. It's one big propaganda machine. They are good at it; managing our expectations.

Unfortunately, I've been here too long to leave and go elsewhere. Personally, I'm going to hunker down and hope to be bought out by Delta. I know it's a pipe dream, but that's the only way we're ever going to get a decent contract around here.

I'll just go to work, fly my trip, and go home. I don't pick up premium, I don't volunteer for anything, and I won't do anything for AAG that they don't pay me for. My time is not free. I don't give a rip about the brand. I will support my crew and take care of my passengers by conducting a safe flight. Everything else is out of my control and management has made it clear that they don't care about our input on anything, because they are good enough to figure all this stuff out in a board room.

And I'm going to continue to wear my ORANGE LANYARD.

Arctichicken
12-15-2017, 09:58 AM
The current ďcultureĒ at Alaska Airlines, especially as a pilot, has never been so toxic and combative since I can remember. The current climate which management has created, thanks to BM, BT, & TK, is in many ways infinitely worse than after Kasher. No job is perfect but AAG is quickly spiraling to the bottom of the barrel. Management blames it on growing pains but in reality, they are just too narcissistic to realize that they are incapable, ignorant, and lack basic leadership skills and vision.

WHACKMASTER
12-15-2017, 10:16 AM
Wow. I can’t believe things have gotten so miserable there. Sorry to hear.....

ImperialxRat
12-15-2017, 12:01 PM
Alaska Airlines is feeling more and more like the regional I came from.

Funny you should say that. Sadly at my previous regional we had a better contract and work rules (not pay).

Outdoors
12-15-2017, 02:27 PM
Agree with every response on this page. Couldnít be more accurate.

sparrowhawk
12-15-2017, 02:32 PM
Anyone have any info on recent meet and greet emails that have been sent out to applicants? Are these part of the hiring process?

Fgrosoli
12-15-2017, 09:36 PM
Just received today an invitation to meet pilots and recluting team, is it good news? I applied in November during the open window....in the email I have received they have indicated that as the next step to know me and check my qualifications....
Thanks in advance for your input

rickair7777
12-16-2017, 04:14 AM
Just received today an invitation to meet pilots and recluting team, is it good news? I applied in November during the open window....in the email I have received they have indicated that as the next step to know me and check my qualifications....
Thanks in advance for your input

That sounds like what we used to call an interview...

BiloxiJack
12-16-2017, 07:03 AM
Coming here in general is bad news. The audacity of this joke of an airline to have applicants come out for a "pre interview meet and greet" is appalling considering their **** poor treatment of their pilots (and all others work groups for that matter.) What this pretty obviously translates into is, "we think you're qualified but we want to invite you out to make sure you're willing to bend over and put your own lube on before we repeatedly plow you from behind. Then we know you'll be willing to take it from alaska for years to come."

Alaska is the fat ugly girl of the airline world, she should take what she can get.

Do yourself a favor, don't make the lateral regional to regional move by coming here. Keep chipping away at delta or united.

Just received today an invitation to meet pilots and recluting team, is it good news? I applied in November during the open window....in the email I have received they have indicated that as the next step to know me and check my qualifications....
Thanks in advance for your input

Fgrosoli
12-16-2017, 07:18 AM
That sounds like what we used to call an interview...

Any specific recommendations?
Ex military 22 years of service , 4500 hours all on fighters.... just trying to make sure I will be successful
Thanks again for your time
Filippo

Fgrosoli
12-16-2017, 07:28 AM
Coming here in general is bad news. The audacity of this joke of an airline to have applicants come out for a "pre interview meet and greet" is appalling considering their **** poor treatment of their pilots (and all others work groups for that matter.) What this pretty obviously translates into is, "we think you're qualified but we want to invite you out to make sure you're willing to bend over and put your own lube on before we repeatedly plow you from behind. Then we know you'll be willing to take it from alaska for years to come."

Alaska is the fat ugly girl of the airline world, she should take what she can get.

Do yourself a favor, don't make the lateral regional to regional move by coming here. Keep chipping away at delta or united.

I completely understand your point of view and appreciate your honesty. On my side I have to consider my age 45, QOL with a base in LAX ( I live in San Diego) and the fact iím Working for pennies now and need to feed my family. Delta, United ,AA and southwest are not calling so.....
Iím sure there is not a perfect airline and maybe , based on your comment seems like Alaska has some problems, but in my case is a step up. I never expect with my experience and qualifications to have to go through a regional first and instead here iím. So hopefully I will have a great opportunity and will pass my pre- interview and if something better will come in the future I will be ready to jump on it

BiloxiJack
12-16-2017, 07:42 AM
Completely understand and makes total sense. Wish I could offer what to expect at the meet and greet but have no information about what occurs there. Hopefully someone else will know. Good luck I completely understand your point of view and appreciate your honesty. On my side I have to consider my age 45, QOL with a base in LAX ( I live in San Diego) and the fact iím Working for pennies now and need to feed my family. Delta, United ,AA and southwest are not calling so.....
Iím sure there is not a perfect airline and maybe , based on your comment seems like Alaska has some problems, but in my case is a step up. I never expect with my experience and qualifications to have to go through a regional first and instead here iím. So hopefully I will have a great opportunity and will pass my pre- interview and if something better will come in the future I will be ready to jump on it

Riverside
12-16-2017, 08:25 AM
need to feed my family.
No offense. But I view this as a scab mentality. An excuse to cross a picket line.

rickair7777
12-16-2017, 08:40 AM
No offense. But I view this as a scab mentality. An excuse to cross a picket line.

Those of us who have been around would never use that phrase because of the connotations. But he's fresh out of the mil and doesn't know better. Probably doesn't mean he'd cross a picket line.

And yes AS/VX is better than most or all regionals depending on your seniority and pay vs. QOL needs.

Ronin47
12-16-2017, 08:42 AM
Just received today an invitation to meet pilots and recluting team, is it good news? I applied in November during the open window....in the email I have received they have indicated that as the next step to know me and check my qualifications....
Thanks in advance for your input

Same, congrats.

Riverside
12-16-2017, 08:51 AM
Those of us who have been around would never use that phrase because of the connotations. But he's fresh out of the mil and doesn't know better. Probably doesn't mean he'd cross a picket line.

And yes AS/VX is better than most or all regionals depending on your seniority and pay vs. QOL needs.

I'm not saying he'll cross it. But I'm saying how many people crossed the picket lines because "they want to feed their familes?"

450knotOffice
12-16-2017, 09:03 AM
No offense. But I view this as a scab mentality. An excuse to cross a picket line.

Taken within the context of his post, it does not come across that way at all. It's merely a statement.

ImperialxRat
12-16-2017, 10:26 AM
I completely understand your point of view and appreciate your honesty. On my side I have to consider my age 45, QOL with a base in LAX ( I live in San Diego) and the fact iím Working for pennies now and need to feed my family. Delta, United ,AA and southwest are not calling so.....
Iím sure there is not a perfect airline and maybe , based on your comment seems like Alaska has some problems, but in my case is a step up. I never expect with my experience and qualifications to have to go through a regional first and instead here iím. So hopefully I will have a great opportunity and will pass my pre- interview and if something better will come in the future I will be ready to jump on it

It's better than a regional. Good luck and ask any questions along the way.

Fgrosoli
12-16-2017, 10:28 AM
I'm not saying he'll cross it. But I'm saying how many people crossed the picket lines because "they want to feed their familes?"

Yup you probably misunderstood my intentions. For me is a great opportunity to go from a regional to a major and stay in the west coast, so if they offer me a job I will definitely take it and then deal with the good and bad of Alaska. That is it.

Fgrosoli
12-16-2017, 10:30 AM
It's better than a regional. Good luck and ask any questions along the way.

Thanks, I guess the biggest one is what to expect in this 15 minutes pre interview to make sure I will not do anything wrong....
Thanks again

Saltlife85
12-16-2017, 10:35 AM
Excellent posts a few pages back ForeverJunior. Everyone and anyone looking to come work at this place needs to read his post and let it sink in.

echelon
12-16-2017, 10:44 AM
No offense. But I view this as a scab mentality. An excuse to cross a picket line.

Oh please. Settle down

Arctichicken
12-16-2017, 10:44 AM
I completely understand your point of view and appreciate your honesty. On my side I have to consider my age 45, QOL with a base in LAX ( I live in San Diego) and the fact i’m Working for pennies now and need to feed my family. Delta, United ,AA and southwest are not calling so.....
I’m sure there is not a perfect airline and maybe , based on your comment seems like Alaska has some problems, but in my case is a step up. I never expect with my experience and qualifications to have to go through a regional first and instead here i’m. So hopefully I will have a great opportunity and will pass my pre- interview and if something better will come in the future I will be ready to jump on it
From one ex-mil to another, I totally understand. Alaska is my first airline and hopefully the last. I’ve been here too long and feel that I’m too old to go elsewhere. With all the negativity aside, this dysfunctional family can work out for you. There are plenty of San Diego folks who make the drive to LAX and SNA. 20+ year retirement and 6th best pay will definitely be better than what Uncle Sam is currently paying you. Take the sentiments on here with a grain of salt. I think most non-mil types are tired of the few mil-type yesmen who ruin it for the rest of us.
It seems like HR loves hiring 40+ year olds for obvious reasons. I’ve been flying with many new “older” FOs as of late. Let’s face it, Alaska is no longer the hot supermodel but a washed up-wrinkled- fat-$5 street corner hooker infested with STD. If you can lower your expectations and embrace the suck, you’ll be fine here. The current culture is very toxic and the management is enforcing DEFCON 1 hostile work environment. The only hope that we have for the future is that the WDs are slowly but surely phasing out and our pilot is growing stronger, thanks to management’s idiotic and amateur retaliation tactics.
Here are my 2 cents: Alaska should be your last choice major/legacy airline. It’s only a step up from a regional in pay rates only. Many other aspects are worse than the reputable regionals. Your QOL will suffer for quite some time since trip trading is pretty much nonexistent. If we ever end up with PBS, it will be even worse. I digress. You’ll fly the line that you are awarded with little to no flexibility. Weekends and holidays will not be in your vocabulary for a while. If you’re on reserve, expect to be jacked around by crew scheduling. I recommend boning up on the contract and learn how to file a grievance.
Sounds like you’re a Navy tacjet guy so you’re probably used to missing time with the family. The best thing (probably the only thing) about Alaska is the pilot group, especially LAX from my limited experience. Wish you the best and choose wisely.

Riverside
12-16-2017, 11:03 AM
Oh please. Settle down

Settle down? That's all you going to add to this discussion?

echelon
12-16-2017, 11:04 AM
Settle down? That's all you going to add to this discussion?More constructive than what you added

Fgrosoli
12-16-2017, 11:33 AM
From one ex-mil to another, I totally understand. Alaska is my first airline and hopefully the last. Iíve been here too long and feel that Iím too old to go elsewhere. With all the negativity aside, this dysfunctional family can work out for you. There are plenty of San Diego folks who make the drive to LAX and SNA. 20+ year retirement and 6th best pay will definitely be better than what Uncle Sam is currently paying you. Take the sentiments on here with a grain of salt. I think most non-mil types are tired of the few mil-type yesmen who ruin it for the rest of us.
It seems like HR loves hiring 40+ year olds for obvious reasons. Iíve been flying with many new ďolderĒ FOs as of late. Letís face it, Alaska is no longer the hot supermodel but a washed up-wrinkled- fat-$5 street corner hooker infested with STD. If you can lower your expectations and embrace the suck, youíll be fine here. The current culture is very toxic and the management is enforcing DEFCON 1 hostile work environment. The only hope that we have for the future is that the WDs are slowly but surely phasing out and our pilot is growing stronger, thanks to managementís idiotic and amateur retaliation tactics.
Here are my 2 cents: Alaska should be your last choice major/legacy airline. Itís only a step up from a regional in pay rates only. Many other aspects are worse than the reputable regionals. Your QOL will suffer for quite some time since trip trading is pretty much nonexistent. If we ever end up with PBS, it will be even worse. I digress. Youíll fly the line that you are awarded with little to no flexibility. Weekends and holidays will not be in your vocabulary for a while. If youíre on reserve, expect to be jacked around by crew scheduling. I recommend boning up on the contract and learn how to file a grievance.
Sounds like youíre a Navy tacjet guy so youíre probably used to missing time with the family. The best thing (probably the only thing) about Alaska is the pilot group, especially LAX from my limited experience. Wish you the best and choose wisely.
Thanks Sir, really appreciate your input. Ex Air Force but landed in beautiful San Diego few years ago and never left.... anyway yes many years of missing family time in not very pleasant locations . I will pre-interview and will go from there . How long generally is reserve, before being able to hold a line ? Thanks again

Riverside
12-16-2017, 12:04 PM
More constructive than what you added

You didn't add anything. So keep trying.

Outdoors
12-16-2017, 12:21 PM
Thanks Sir, really appreciate your input. Ex Air Force but landed in beautiful San Diego few years ago and never left.... anyway yes many years of missing family time in not very pleasant locations . I will pre-interview and will go from there . How long generally is reserve, before being able to hold a line ? Thanks again

Year plus exception of LA...likely half a year or less. Then youíll be initially be holding redeye lines. All this varies on classes hired after you etc. Best of luck hopefully someone better calls you soon.

PNWFlyer
12-16-2017, 01:07 PM
In all seriousness, can someone please tell me where this no trading thing comes from. I have been a line holder for all of 2 months now and traded away to build a really nice schedule.

December, got a JFK all nighter traded for ANC 2 day during first step to get a day off I needed. After all bidding closed and P2P opened someone grabbed 2 of my advertised ORD all nighters, one was on the weekend and I picked 3 P2P turns including a DFW evening turn.85 hrs credit. 19 days off and only 6 nights in a hotel. 2 out of 5 saturdays off 3 out of 5 Sundays off. In January I dropped 3 trips in first step and picked up 3 turns. I am working 1 weekend in January. and 6 nights in a Hotel again. Had 1 2 day added in 2nd step for low block.

So how can I trade at the bottom of list and no one else can?

Yes, this can suck for commuters but I have picked up a few extra turns this month from commuters putting their victory lap up for grabs.

If you get hired here great. Work to make it better and apply elsewhere. If someone else calls and you get hired, make your decision on whether to leave based on what you have experienced.

Staying a regional to wait for another call is just silly.



So what trading are you all talking about? Are you trying to trade crappy trips for good ones?

Jetlife
12-16-2017, 01:39 PM
In all seriousness, can someone please tell me where this no trading thing comes from. I have been a line holder for all of 2 months now and traded away to build a really nice schedule.

December, got a JFK all nighter traded for ANC 2 day during first step to get a day off I needed. After all bidding closed and P2P opened someone grabbed 2 of my advertised ORD all nighters, one was on the weekend and I picked 3 P2P turns including a DFW evening turn.85 hrs credit. 19 days off and only 6 nights in a hotel. 2 out of 5 saturdays off 3 out of 5 Sundays off. In January I dropped 3 trips in first step and picked up 3 turns. I am working 1 weekend in January. and 6 nights in a Hotel again. Had 1 2 day added in 2nd step for low block.

So how can I trade at the bottom of list and no one else can?

Yes, this can suck for commuters but I have picked up a few extra turns this month from commuters putting their victory lab up for grabs.

So what trading are you all talking about? Are you trying to trade crappy trips for good ones?

I know at least on the Airbus side, the reserve thresholds are such that it is very hard to trade trips out of open time, and next to impossible to drop.

I can list anything I want for drop or trade just like everyone else and hope that it works out but from a scheduling standpoint, it is much harder to get approved for trades and drops.

cornbeef007
12-16-2017, 01:52 PM
Settle down? That's all you going to add to this discussion?

Your making everyone dumber with the scab based leap of logic. I think thatís all people are trying to convey to you.

PNWFlyer
12-16-2017, 02:00 PM
I know at least on the Airbus side, the reserve thresholds are such that it is very hard to trade trips out of open time, and next to impossible to drop.

I can list anything I want for drop or trade just like everyone else and hope that it works out but from a scheduling standpoint, it is much harder to get approved for trades and drops.

Ok, so all of you are talking about trades and drops from open time. Yeah, that sucks and doesn't seem to work.... ever. I quit looking at open time and just do P2P.

sparrowhawk
12-16-2017, 02:42 PM
For those of you who got the invite for the meet and greet, did you select Airbus or Boeing for your application?

For new hires how are aircraft assigned?

Fgrosoli
12-16-2017, 02:46 PM
For those of you who got the invite for the meet and greet, did you select Airbus or Boeing for your application?

For new hires how are aircraft assigned?

I selected Boeing but will take whatever to be honest. The only important element is being based in LAX...

PNWFlyer
12-16-2017, 02:52 PM
For those of you who got the invite for the meet and greet, did you select Airbus or Boeing for your application?

For new hires how are aircraft assigned?

By age. Oldest picks first.

They will have a list with aircraft and base. LA continues to be the Jr base.

miker1
12-16-2017, 02:52 PM
No offense. But I view this as a scab mentality. An excuse to cross a picket line.Jesus christ! **** off! The guy wants to earn a better paycheck and you call him a scab?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Fgrosoli
12-16-2017, 03:02 PM
By age. Oldest picks first.

They will have a list with aircraft and base. LA continues to be the Jr base.

I guess I will be on the oldest side unfortunately

ogilthorpe
12-16-2017, 03:08 PM
No offense. But I view this as a scab mentality. An excuse to cross a picket line.

Oh for god's sake...

PNWFlyer
12-16-2017, 03:11 PM
I guess I will be on the oldest side unfortunately

Why is that unfortunate? if you are older you pick first. If you pick first you get anything on the list. If Boeing LA is on the list, pick it. LA is Jr because it is the last to go in recent drops. Recent meaning in 2017.

For instance, my class was
SEA
LA
SEA
SEA
SEA
SEA
SEA
SEA
SEA
LA
LA
LA

sparrowhawk
12-16-2017, 03:46 PM
Can you get into NY from Training?

PNWFlyer
12-16-2017, 03:50 PM
Can you get into NY from Training?

Starting in January yes. Jan 22 I believe.

Ispeakjive
12-16-2017, 03:50 PM
No offense. But I view this as a scab mentality. An excuse to cross a picket line.

Get over yourself. AK is better than any regional, and the grown up type rating can only help for moving on if needed.

Fgrosoli
12-16-2017, 04:21 PM
Why is that unfortunate? if you are older you pick first. If you pick first you get anything on the list. If Boeing LA is on the list, pick it. LA is Jr because it is the last to go in recent drops. Recent meaning in 2017.

For instance, my class was
SEA
LA
SEA
SEA
SEA
SEA
SEA
SEA
SEA
LA
LA
LA
Just because it means iím old :D

Riverside
12-16-2017, 04:23 PM
Get over yourself. AK is better than any regional, and the grown up type rating can only help for moving on if needed.

I don't agree to get over yourself comment. But I do agree that the 737 type is extremely valuable. Especially if you want to move over to the south satellite terminal.

OCCP
12-16-2017, 08:28 PM
I don't agree to get over yourself comment. But I do agree that the 737 type is extremely valuable. Especially if you want to move over to the south satellite terminal.

You mean where the real airlines park? The ones with a vision and direction. The ones who just ordered 100 Airbus while we swap -700ís for 900erís and ďwork togetherĒ to be most west coast!

BiloxiJack
12-16-2017, 11:50 PM
Ha ha. Most west coast. What a stupid concept. No other airline pigeon holes themselves quite like the democratic people's republic of Alaska airlines. You mean where the real airlines park? The ones with a vision and direction. The ones who just ordered 100 Airbus while we swap -700ís for 900erís and ďwork togetherĒ to be most west coast!

BiloxiJack
12-17-2017, 12:00 AM
Also, who needs vision or direction... we have culture. Just keep your head down and paddle bro. Sometimes you have to think of the bigger picture and work for the operation. You mean where the real airlines park? The ones with a vision and direction. The ones who just ordered 100 Airbus while we swap -700ís for 900erís and ďwork togetherĒ to be most west coast!

Ronin47
12-17-2017, 03:38 AM
This may have been asked before, any way to pick up open trips for extra cash on year first year?

OCCP
12-17-2017, 05:21 AM
Youíll make around 85-95k your first year, you canít survive on that? Youíre already going to have a junk schedule with less days off than other airlines, why waste your life picking up more?

Ronin47
12-17-2017, 05:50 AM
Youíll make around 85-95k your first year, you canít survive on that? Youíre already going to have a junk schedule with less days off than other airlines, why waste your life picking up more?

Can any other Alaskan pilot answer this question without the negative rhetoric? Not every new hire is 30yrs. old living with 3 roomates. Some pilots have families on a single salary trying to make educated decisions.
Thanks in advance.

Outdoors
12-17-2017, 07:30 AM
Can any other Alaskan pilot answer this question without the negative rhetoric? Not every new hire is 30yrs. old living with 3 roomates. Some pilots have families on a single salary trying to make educated decisions.
Thanks in advance.

Figure 79 credit short call and ď12Ē days off a month. They can and Iíve experienced them extending you beyond your reserve availability period multiple times per month so then it can become more like 10 actual days off. You donít get compensated any additional for this. Your days off begin five hours after your reserve availability period ends per the contract. If you then want to try and pick up additionaly you have to find a trip that is legal for your short amount of time off which would seem challenging but not impossible.

There is a performance bonus worth 100$ a month I believe that weíve hit maybe three times this year.

Profit sharing could be 7% but I definitely wouldnít count on it.

ForeverJunior
12-17-2017, 07:50 AM
Figure 79 credit short call and ď12Ē days off a month. They can and Iíve experienced them extending you beyond your reserve availability period multiple times per month so then it can become more like 10 actual days off. You donít get compensated any additional for this. Your days off begin five hours after your reserve availability period ends per the contract. If you then want to try and pick up additionaly you have to find a trip that is legal for your short amount of time off which would seem challenging but not impossible.

There is a performance bonus worth 100$ a month I believe that weíve hit maybe three times this year.

Profit sharing could be 7% but I definitely wouldnít count on it.

Not to nitpick, but it's not even profit sharing. It's "performance based pay", which allows them to shift the goalposts every year.

It should have been true profit sharing. But, it's just one more thing we handed over to them without putting up a fight. But, I digress.

To get back on topic, reserve sucks. The nice thing is that current new-hires get off of reserve fairly quickly. At least you wouldn't have to do years of it like some of us, whose career timing wasn't good.