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View Full Version : Change in Livery


A321
12-16-2013, 03:04 PM
Looks like they are considering changing the livery again….

Survey is up on Wings/Jetnet.
https://www.facebook.com/AmericanAirlines

https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1520702_10151783576026078_1040752641_n.png


lolwut
12-16-2013, 03:22 PM
So your choices are:

That horrible flag thing, or...
Two different logos, and a somewhat difficult to read "American" on an otherwise completely gray fuselage.

What??

NC3rd
12-16-2013, 03:39 PM
So provide two horrible choices with the current flag scheme only being slightly better and then declare victory that they've given the people what they want.


LIOG41
12-16-2013, 03:46 PM
The AA on the tail, although once great on the original paint job, just does not work with the rest of the new fuselage paint and font.

Btw, it will probably change again in 5-10 years.

Packrat
12-16-2013, 03:48 PM
I like the proposed one better. The flag logo doesn't work for me.

CanoePilot
12-16-2013, 03:50 PM
What about this?

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1487356_184874885042871_891776418_n.jpg

For the record my vote is to keep the flag, the proposed one looks boring.

AZFlyer
12-16-2013, 03:58 PM
Between the two, I'd vote for the classic 'AA', but only because it is instantly recognizable. The new mish mash looking flag still doesn't look good to me. With that said, the 'AA' doesn't mesh that well with the new 'eagle' logo.

Skubajet
12-16-2013, 04:13 PM
What about this?

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1487356_184874885042871_891776418_n.jpg

For the record my vote is to keep the flag, the proposed one looks boring.

That's an interesting idea for the tail but made me immediately think of Air France's paint scheme.

kdogger
12-16-2013, 04:26 PM
I'm not savvy enough to put together what it would look like. But I think it might look ok to use the current US Airways tail on the bird. It would be a lot like the way United merged their livery, but with more compatible logos. It's still a flag, but with the heritage that Parker likes to preserve.

Packrat
12-16-2013, 04:40 PM
Its not a flag. Its the depth gauge for the New York City river system.

portfo
12-16-2013, 04:59 PM
I agree, the new scheme with the classic AA tail looks odd. But the new scheme is just plain bad.... Lose, lose Me thinks....

Smoke Toliet
12-16-2013, 05:19 PM
The old polished airframe with the AA on the tail will always be my favorite but since the planes have to be painted the one with the flag is much better then the other one. The other one is two different logos on one plane....makes no sense. And now that I've seen the new a lot it's grown on me. Definitely stands out and is unique. Could be worse...we could have the UA/CAL one:)

freddy
12-16-2013, 06:17 PM
The new tail is hideous. Classic all the way.

YourFnout
12-16-2013, 06:41 PM
What about this?



For the record my vote is to keep the flag, the proposed one looks boring.

That one looks very sharpe.

I voted for the new tail, time to move forward.

RamenNoodles
12-16-2013, 06:43 PM
My marketing background suggests the proposed tail is a horrendous identity crisis. New logo on the fuselage and old logo on the tail. Bad for consumer brand recognition.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but my vote would be on the current flag option.

crzipilot
12-16-2013, 06:57 PM
As thrilled as everyone is to have the ability to debate the great debate of what livery the airplanes should wear. This is a glimpse into the insight of the incoming management.

How much did Horton pay for the new marketing scheme/branding/livery? How much is US going to pay to come up with something new. From the looks of it. It was pretty much the cost of a sandwich for someone to photoshop the old AA onto the tail, and a bad job at that.

So instead of saying, we are going to make a mark and do this right, they come out with some cheesy deal, and everyone feels warm and giddy because they get to click to vote.

Wasn't the current US scheme hatched basically for free by someone at HQ with some extra time on their hands?

Shades of things to come...

freddy
12-16-2013, 09:41 PM
As thrilled as everyone is to have the ability to debate the great debate of what livery the airplanes should wear. This is a glimpse into the insight of the incoming management.

How much did Horton pay for the new marketing scheme/branding/livery? How much is US going to pay to come up with something new. From the looks of it. It was pretty much the cost of a sandwich for someone to photoshop the old AA onto the tail, and a bad job at that.

So instead of saying, we are going to make a mark and do this right, they come out with some cheesy deal, and everyone feels warm and giddy because they get to click to vote.



Wasn't the current US scheme hatched basically for free by someone at HQ with some extra time on their hands?

Shades of things to come...

That's ridiculous. I feel warm and giddy alright but has nothing to do with the paint job.

buddies8
12-17-2013, 02:50 AM
new livery stinks. grows on you like mold. logo stinks. all those millions on a advertising agency just to get euro trash in gray. put up pictures of all oneworld members and look at the livery. AA's ad agency should be sued for using someone else s intellectual property. if you can call it that.

Go with the US livery.

LittleBoyBlew
12-17-2013, 04:30 AM
If WE had a choice, a NEW livery from scratch. But given the current choice, I vote for the Classic tail. Cheaper to maintain and obvious brand recognition. Besides in a few years from now, when AA is making money, a whole different livery will most likely emerge.
In the mean time, get rid of that hideous CUBANA look alike tail!!

glasspilot
12-17-2013, 04:45 AM
I vote for this paint job! Ha! Ha! ;)

Photos: Boeing 767-231(ER) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Trans-World-Airlines/Boeing-767-231%28ER%29/2348979/L/&sid=8ad4887f090afd44960a05931dd1bd53)

The Drizzle
12-17-2013, 04:47 AM
If WE had a choice, a NEW livery from scratch. But given the current choice, I vote for the Classic tail. Cheaper to maintain and obvious brand recognition. Besides in a few years from now, when AA is making money, a whole different livery will most likely emerge.
In the mean time, get rid of that hideous CUBANA look alike tail!!

I agree, I voted for the classic tail but not because I think it looks good. The new livery is ridiculous and the other option is bland and thoroughly uninspired like United. Lesser of two evils.

I vote for this paint job! Ha! Ha! ;)

Photos: Boeing 767-231(ER) Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Trans-World-Airlines/Boeing-767-231%28ER%29/2348979/L/&sid=8ad4887f090afd44960a05931dd1bd53)

All joking aside, I really hope we expand the heritage airbus series with the addition of a TWA tail. I think that last livery they had was one of the finest to ever fly.

ackattacker
12-17-2013, 05:15 AM
My marketing background suggests the proposed tail is a horrendous identity crisis. New logo on the fuselage and old logo on the tail. Bad for consumer brand recognition.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but my vote would be on the current flag option.

I agree 100%. I think United made a huge mistake combining the Continental tail with the United name. Every time you look at it you do a double take.

Same thing with combining the old and new AA designs. It has to be one or the other. Like it not, the flag tail already represents the "New AA" to a lot of people.

BSOuthisplace
12-17-2013, 05:21 AM
All joking aside, I really hope we expand the heritage airbus series with the addition of a TWA tail. I think that last livery they had was one of the finest to ever fly.

In the attached letter from Doug Parker on the website he says that they will continue the heritage series with TWA and USAirways aircraft.

He also explains why they aren't willing to spend more money on a complete redesign. You can tell he hates it, but that in the end he's not going to spend a bunch of money post bankruptcy to redo something that's already been done and partially implemented so employees can feel all warm and fuzzy about their airline. It's a cop out, but it's also a financially responsible decision. Welcome to the new American.

Hopefully they get the uniforms right.

JumpersAway79
12-17-2013, 05:38 AM
I have to admit- I didn't particularly like the new paint scheme either. It first reminded me of a Cubana/Colgan identity crisis. However, after some time, it's slowly growing on me. Also, given the choices, I think a combo of the legacy scheme and the new scheme reeks. I like the old logo, but only on the old paint scheme. Given the two choices, and that a complete "redo" is out of the question, I'll be voting on the new scheme.

Hey, if Doug doesn't like it and we vote it in the scheme he dislikes in it's entirety, then perhaps this increases the odds of a "do-over" with time.

Regardless of paint scheme, I'm just looking forward to moving along and working together at the "New American". Cheers!

The Drizzle
12-17-2013, 05:50 AM
Hopefully they get the uniforms right.

I know it's only rumors at this point, but it doesn't sound like they have.

Hueypilot
12-17-2013, 07:13 AM
As others have said, the alternate livery is boring and shows brand confusion. The flag tail is loud and sort of obnoxious, but it gets attention and it could be argued that the flag tail represents the US Airways addition. Barring other more original ideas, I'd go with the flag tail version.

R57 relay
12-17-2013, 07:32 AM
I don't like the two logos on the alternate option. If it were up to me my first choice would be scrap it all. Second would be scrap the new logo and keep the tail with the old eagle in the front. Of the ones given I think I'll vote for the new look all together because the other choice looks hobbled together, almost like the PI/US transition paint schemes.

The only reason I'd vote for changing the tail would be if having the eagle on the tail was vastly less expensive. That new tail looks hard to apply and maintain.

But, whatever. I don't think passengers really care unless the paint is peeling or the airplane is dirty. Then they think that if they don't take care of the outside then maybe they don't take care of the rest of it.

I just went to wings and it's careful to say this isn't really a vote, they are just getting our input. I'm thinking we are too far in this to change. Parker doesn't like to waste money. We'll see.

flybywire44
12-17-2013, 07:51 AM
80ktsclamp,

Please edit the original post to add a voting poll between the two paint schemes!

Thanks!
FBW

SilverandSore
12-17-2013, 08:03 AM
I know it's only rumors at this point, but it doesn't sound like they have.

New uniform will be black or blue, no double breasted, and includes hats. Put the dark grey thing to bed, it's not happening.

The Drizzle
12-17-2013, 08:08 AM
So long as it isn't double breasted.

CanoePilot
12-17-2013, 08:28 AM
New uniform will be black or blue, no double breasted, and includes hats. Put the dark grey thing to bed, it's not happening.

No hats...

Saabs
12-17-2013, 09:32 AM
No hats...
I second that. I remember walking through DTW with a friend and noting all the delta guys with no hats on. He pointed out those we're former Northwest guys that don't wear them. It will be the same thing here.

CanoePilot
12-17-2013, 09:54 AM
I second that. I remember walking through DTW with a friend and noting all the delta guys with no hats on. He pointed out those we're former Northwest guys that don't wear them. It will be the same thing here.

are you at airways now?

freddy
12-17-2013, 10:45 AM
are you at airways now?

You mean "were you at Airways" There is no more airways. Pardon me, it just makes me happy to say that.

80ktsClamp
12-17-2013, 10:48 AM
I don't think I can edit it to add a poll. You guys will have to start your own thread with a poll if you want one.

lolwut
12-17-2013, 10:57 AM
You mean "were you at Airways" There is no more airways. Pardon me, it just makes me happy to say that.

Wrong.

Until theres a single operating certificate, US Airways very much still exists, as a division of the American Airlines Group.

ForeverFO
12-17-2013, 12:12 PM
The new paint isn't that bad, and a LOT of passengers I've talked to really like it.

We as pilots are very traditional. We like the tried and true. But the old aluminum AA "paint" scheme is dated, badly. AND unless the aluminum is kept spotless and $hined, it looks like crap.

I was also told that there are so many layers of paint on the old jets that they actually weigh less after being stripped and painted with the new. So much for the "Save weight, save $$" logic.

Hats - no one at AA will wear them. Period. We finally got rid of them. If they force the issue and make them mandatory, there will be no compliance except check airmen.

"Oh, I should have a hat? Are you going to take me off this trip because I have no hat? Good luck getting another pilot with manning the way it is."

CanoePilot
12-17-2013, 12:16 PM
Hats - no one at AA will wear them. Period. We finally got rid of them. If they force the issue and make them mandatory, there will be no compliance except check airmen.

"Oh, I should have a hat? Are you going to take me off this trip because I have no hat? Good luck getting another pilot with manning the way it is."

Hear, Hear.... Same goes for Airways. Only guys that wear them are the guys that no-one wants to fly with or the really really old guys who's hair looks like someone slabbed on some cool whip on their heads.

I always said I doubt they will enforce any hat rule. Are they really gonna fire someone for not wearing a hat?

Al Czervik
12-17-2013, 12:46 PM
Hats - no one at AA will wear them. Period. We finally got rid of them. If they force the issue and make them mandatory, there will be no compliance except check airmen.

"Oh, I should have a hat? Are you going to take me off this trip because I have no hat? Good luck getting another pilot with manning the way it is."

Maybe a DL guy could chime in... I heard a story (sounds out there) that for hat compliance at DL they had "hat cops" that would ask where your hat was. If you couldn't pony up.. They would scan your badge and have a new one delivered to your home. Payroll deducted of course.

freddy
12-17-2013, 12:56 PM
Wrong.

Until theres a single operating certificate, US Airways very much still exists, as a division of the American Airlines Group.

Not to me it doesn't. Not to the stock market either. You're getting caught up in the details.

The Drizzle
12-17-2013, 01:00 PM
Maybe a DL guy could chime in... I heard a story (sounds out there) that for hat compliance at DL they had "hat cops" that would ask where your hat was. If you couldn't pony up.. They would scan your badge and have a new one delivered to your home. Payroll deducted of course.

Ha! That's intensely dickish.

lolwut
12-17-2013, 01:07 PM
Not to me it doesn't. Not to the stock market either. You're getting caught up in the details.

Hahah well I don't really care either way...

But I'm guessing that "former" US Airways pilots still have US Airways badges, get paychecks that say US Airways on them, fly airplanes that have US Airways written on them, etc.

To each his own, I suppose.

RyanP
12-17-2013, 01:17 PM
The old logo on the new paint looks terrible..

And hoping for a new grey uniform.. Everybody does black/blue.. Boring.

freddy
12-17-2013, 01:22 PM
And hoping for a new grey uniform.. Everybody does black/blue.. Boring.[/QUOTE]

Right, we should be different like Virgin America or Jet Blue. Barf!

R57 relay
12-17-2013, 01:45 PM
The old logo on the new paint looks terrible..

And hoping for a new grey uniform.. Everybody does black/blue.. Boring.

Give me boring over hideous any day. I give you VA and I tried to find a picture of the old UA tan uniform on google images, but it came back as "Too ugly to display."

bigscrillywilli
12-17-2013, 02:07 PM
Give me boring over hideous any day. I give you VA and I tried to find a picture of the old UA tan uniform on google images, but it came back as "Too ugly to display."

Yes no contrast at all and it looks awful. I voted for new tail, even though they claim it's not a vote.

CanoePilot
12-17-2013, 02:26 PM
Ha! That's intensely dickish.

It's delta.

RyanP
12-17-2013, 02:44 PM
Give me boring over hideous any day. I give you VA and I tried to find a picture of the old UA tan uniform on google images, but it came back as "Too ugly to display."

Nice Grey pants and a clean white shirt without all the pockets and epaulet straps would look a hell of a lot better than what we have now. At least you could wear it into the grocery store or the train ride on the way home without looking like an idiot, Constantly getting asked for directions. The security guard/mall cop matching outfit we wear now looks like total crap IMO. The blue we have is better than the black/gold though.. I'll give you that.

But Don't worry all you hat wearing epaulet lovers.. It won't ever drastically change anyway, besides a button or tie or something.. :p

EMBFlyer
12-17-2013, 02:48 PM
Maybe a DL guy could chime in... I heard a story (sounds out there) that for hat compliance at DL they had "hat cops" that would ask where your hat was. If you couldn't pony up.. They would scan your badge and have a new one delivered to your home. Payroll deducted of course.

Do the "Hat Cops" fall under the jurisdiction of the "APU Sheriff" or are they a separate entity?

Ask the Delta guys about the "APU Sheriff." He has a badge and everything.

AZFlyer
12-17-2013, 04:09 PM
Maybe a DL guy could chime in... I heard a story (sounds out there) that for hat compliance at DL they had "hat cops" that would ask where your hat was. If you couldn't pony up.. They would scan your badge and have a new one delivered to your home. Payroll deducted of course.
How could someone do that and not feel like a total schmuck?

CanoePilot
12-17-2013, 04:36 PM
How could someone do that and not feel like a total schmuck?

It's Delta, they're hardcore.

TheFly
12-17-2013, 05:17 PM
Classic...

CptRexKramer
12-17-2013, 06:05 PM
Do the "Hat Cops" fall under the jurisdiction of the "APU Sheriff" or are they a separate entity?

Ask the Delta guys about the "APU Sheriff." He has a badge and everything.

No, but they both work out of the same office as the Out Police.

AceOnTheRiver
12-17-2013, 06:08 PM
I voted for the Old Logo. The new tail looks terrible and the AA logo has instant brand recognition.

80ktsClamp
12-17-2013, 08:30 PM
It's Delta, they're hardcore.

DL mgmt was hardcore about unifying the airline into a single brand and image after the merger. Hence the hat patrol guys. Typically it was just a CP standing outside ops entrance. I never heard about the billing of a hat to your account since the NW guys were provided their uniforms at no cost to them, but it may have happened.

It apparently worked... it's very rare these days to see a guy not wearing their hat in the terminal.

The APU sheriff was a big deal in 2007ish timeframe. APU usage was very high in the company and fuel was spiking. Single engine taxi and not using the APU unless necessary was a way to bring the company back to profitability in the face of rising oil and exiting bankruptcy. I never saw one, but the "sheriffs" were retired pilots typically. They would get mx on fixing broken ground power and ground air units.


But I digest....

gzsg
12-18-2013, 03:04 AM
Does anyone have a photo of the one that was floating around when the merge was announced? It was 10 times better than these pathetic paint jobs.

ForeverFO
12-19-2013, 08:30 AM
What utter rubbish. If some CKA or management tool costed me $125 for a new hat, I would get that $125 back using creative piloting techniques, AND have a new hat to boot.

Maybe it'd get me $100 on eBay.

I'd also make sure I'd identify the guy who "scanned my badge", and some how, some way, I'd have a touch of vengeance. Nothing ugly or dangerous, of course.

Livery - honestly, if that's our greatest concern, we're doing really well. ;)

eaglefly
12-19-2013, 08:37 AM
...............But I digest....

Hopefully your digestion is going well with a minimum of gas and bloating. :rolleyes:

VenetianFryCook
12-19-2013, 10:41 AM
Livery - honestly, if that's our greatest concern, we're doing really well. ;)

Agreed! However, I don't think it is our only concern, just our FIRST concern. We have deliveries coming like mad on both the US and AA sides, and we should get whatever the final livery will be on them as quickly as possible to avoid - as much as we can - spending time and money painting brand new airplanes.

I'm also pretty sure that painting of legacy US airplanes will begin in earnest pretty soon. In particular, US leaves the Star Alliance on 3/30 - just three months from now - and we have four A319s painted in Star Alliance livery. Clearly, for marketing reasons, those will be among the first airplanes to visit a paint hangar somewhere. Rumor has it that one of those airplanes will be receiving the "heritage livery" treatment honoring TWA, but that is only a rumor thus far.

Livery is visible and requires lots of lead time, and thus has to be dealt with early on. It also only requires that a decision be made ... unlike some other decisions involved with merging two airlines, no employee training, massive IT planning, etc. is really involved. Just make a decision, and start painting airplanes. It'll take years to finish, of course, but it's like eating an elephant ... one bite at a time, and the sooner you start the sooner you'll finish.

R57 relay
12-19-2013, 11:36 AM
Livery - honestly, if that's our greatest concern, we're doing really well. ;)

Nice for a change.

embraer
12-19-2013, 06:30 PM
hopefully your digestion is going well with a minimum of gas and bloating. :rolleyes:

lol!

123456

PurpleTurtle
12-19-2013, 07:51 PM
Agreed! However, I don't think it is our only concern, just our FIRST concern. We have deliveries coming like mad on both the US and AA sides, and we should get whatever the final livery will be on them as quickly as possible to avoid - as much as we can - spending time and money painting brand new airplanes.

I'm also pretty sure that painting of legacy US airplanes will begin in earnest pretty soon. In particular, US leaves the Star Alliance on 3/30 - just three months from now - and we have four A319s painted in Star Alliance livery. Clearly, for marketing reasons, those will be among the first airplanes to visit a paint hangar somewhere. Rumor has it that one of those airplanes will be receiving the "heritage livery" treatment honoring TWA, but that is only a rumor thus far.

Livery is visible and requires lots of lead time, and thus has to be dealt with early on. It also only requires that a decision be made ... unlike some other decisions involved with merging two airlines, no employee training, massive IT planning, etc. is really involved. Just make a decision, and start painting airplanes. It'll take years to finish, of course, but it's like eating an elephant ... one bite at a time, and the sooner you start the sooner you'll finish.

Dude you have a lot of passion about livery. I wish half our pilots had half as much passion about reading the freaking MOU before they voted. :D