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View Full Version : New Hires in PHX


pilotkitch
02-08-2014, 09:59 PM
Anyone have insight as to how this is going to work? If one was to want PHX and not get it can he/she bid it next bid period (airbus to airbus) and same question if you get PHX and would like to end up in an east coast domicile (airbus to airbus)...


LIOG41
02-09-2014, 01:57 AM
Nothing until SLI...lots of peeps waiting for PHX.

FreighterGuyNow
02-09-2014, 05:10 AM
Anyone have insight as to how this is going to work? If one was to want PHX and not get it can he/she bid it next bid period (airbus to airbus) and same question if you get PHX and would like to end up in an east coast domicile (airbus to airbus)...

No openings in PHX currently. The US Airways and America West pilot groups have never been combined so we operate under two separate and distinct seniority lists. The America West pilot group had 45 on furlough until recently. The company did publish a letter last fall that all the West furloughs would be recalled but I don't recall seeing a schedule or any updates since as to the recall progress to date.


It's always possible that attrition could open up PHX in the near future but with a joint certificate not planned till the spring of 2015, I'd guess looking at it today, it may not be until then you could bid that domicile.


R57 relay
02-09-2014, 05:17 AM
No openings in PHX currently. The US Airways and America West pilot groups have never been combined so we operate under two separate and distinct seniority lists. The America West pilot group had 45 on furlough until recently. The company did publish a letter last fall that all the West furloughs would be recalled but I don't recall seeing a schedule or any updates since as to the recall progress to date.


It's always possible that attrition could open up PHX in the near future but with a joint certificate not planned till the spring of 2015, I'd guess looking at it today, it may not be until then you could bid that domicile.

The west has a bid open now and at the conclusion they may need new hires.

About a month ago I flew with a west guy that took an east seat. He said that the company gave them the same rights as AA pilots for recall, so they could defer recall for the same length of time. I was under the impression that all west furloughs have been offered recall and have either returned or deferred. He was deferring.

This is a new area for us. Previously you were stuck on one system or another, unless you had been furloughed. We'll see if things have changed.

PRS Guitars
02-09-2014, 06:38 AM
As has been said, no switching until SLI at best. One other thing to consider is that if you get PHX right off the bat, your hotel (not sure about per diem) might not be paid for during training and indoc. This was apparently how the west operated under their contract. The MTA might change this, I'm not sure. Even if it does change it, who knows when that will happen.

70Espada
02-09-2014, 06:41 AM
No openings in PHX currently. The US Airways and America West pilot groups have never been combined so we operate under two separate and distinct seniority lists. The America West pilot group had 45 on furlough until recently. The company did publish a letter last fall that all the West furloughs would be recalled but I don't recall seeing a schedule or any updates since as to the recall progress to date.


It's always possible that attrition could open up PHX in the near future but with a joint certificate not planned till the spring of 2015, I'd guess looking at it today, it may not be until then you could bid that domicile.

The west bid that just closed had 15 upgrades and 15 FO vacancies. He might be asking this question because, evidently new hires are being told to expect CLT, PHL, or.....yes, it's hard to believe PHX.

Hueypilot
02-09-2014, 06:48 AM
When I read through the MOU it seemed to indicate that all (east and west) have the same standards now...same pay, etc.

If they don't pay for hotels that's certainly something to keep in mind!

70Espada
02-09-2014, 06:57 AM
The west has a bid open now and at the conclusion they may need new hires.

About a month ago I flew with a west guy that took an east seat. He said that the company gave them the same rights as AA pilots for recall, so they could defer recall for the same length of time. I was under the impression that all west furloughs have been offered recall and have either returned or deferred. He was deferring.

This is a new area for us. Previously you were stuck on one system or another, unless you had been furloughed. We'll see if things have changed.

I was told new hires are being offered PHX, but currently east pilots ie third listers cannot move west. Notice: this is 2 1/2 hand information. I say 2 1/2 because i was told by a new hire and third lister. Hence, it's second and third hand information.

EMBFlyer
02-09-2014, 07:09 AM
As has been said, no switching until SLI at best. One other thing to consider is that if you get PHX right off the bat, your hotel (not sure about per diem) might not be paid for during training and indoc. This was apparently how the west operated under their contract. The MTA might change this, I'm not sure. Even if it does change it, who knows when that will happen.

I though the MOU (and AA's Green Book) provided hotels for training in your base if you live outside of 100 miles. Just have to get authorization from the Chief Pilot's Office. I don't know if that applies to new hires or not.

pilotkitch
02-09-2014, 07:22 AM
The west bid that just closed had 15 upgrades and 15 FO vacancies. He might be asking this question because, evidently new hires are being told to expect CLT, PHL, or.....yes, it's hard to believe PHX.

Yes, was told by HR during interview that PHX would be open to new hires during training "as required". If you are unable to change until after SLI are we looking at fourth listers, lol?

Wiskey Driver
02-09-2014, 07:31 AM
I though the MOU (and AA's Green Book) provided hotels for training in your base if you live outside of 100 miles. Just have to get authorization from the Chief Pilot's Office. I don't know if that applies to new hires or not.

I think you are correct we had a commuter on the jump seat that was going to training and he stated that the company is now paying for hotels for commuters.

WD at AWA

70Espada
02-09-2014, 08:06 AM
Yes, was told by HR during interview that PHX would be open to new hires during training "as required". If you are unable to change until after SLI are we looking at fourth listers, lol?

Lol. Let's not even go there, this pilot group is fractured enough as it is.

texaspilot76
02-09-2014, 08:12 AM
I don't see why 3rd listers can't bid PHX. There is absolutely no dispute in their seniority. Why can't they bid there?

70Espada
02-09-2014, 08:19 AM
I don't see why 3rd listers can't bid PHX. There is absolutely no dispute in their seniority. Why can't they bid there?

For the majority of the third listers I would completely agree. Unfortunately there are some real nut jobs on the east and some third listers themselves that think they should go above junior west pilots. They are a minority thankfully, but still cause problems for everyone.

pilotkitch
02-09-2014, 08:23 AM
Lol. Let's not even go there, this pilot group is fractured enough as it is.

I'll be sure to bring a smile and positive attitude wherever I end up.

CanoePilot
02-09-2014, 08:25 AM
I don't see why 3rd listers can't bid PHX. There is absolutely no dispute in their seniority. Why can't they bid there?

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/126016/67820957_acce81ded0_d.jpg

A321
02-09-2014, 10:08 AM
There is a new hire class starting tomorrow (2/10) and they have been told that there is a chance of PHX openings. We will know shortly.

Trogdor
02-09-2014, 02:03 PM
In '07-08 third listers were being placed either east or west. Once there, you were stuck and could not bid to the other side. My guess is this practice will continue until we are all one big happy family.

meyers9163
02-09-2014, 03:13 PM
There is a new hire class starting tomorrow (2/10) and they have been told that there is a chance of PHX openings. We will know shortly.

More 190 guys in Philly is all we need ;).... Then those guys being held for training can move on up... :)

pilotkitch
02-09-2014, 04:59 PM
In '07-08 third listers were being placed either east or west. Once there, you were stuck and could not bid to the other side. My guess is this practice will continue until we are all one big happy family.

Where did those hirings fall in the Nic, ALPA, USAPA timeline?

Bad-Andy
02-10-2014, 04:00 AM
Where did those hirings fall in the Nic, ALPA, USAPA timeline?

They arrived after the Nic Award, Still 2 separate ALPAs, just prior to the USAPA vote...

PurpleTurtle
02-10-2014, 06:29 AM
For the majority of the third listers I would completely agree. Unfortunately there are some real nut jobs on the east and some third listers themselves that think they should go above junior west pilots. They are a minority thankfully, but still cause problems for everyone.

Is relative position not good enough for them?

texaspilot76
02-10-2014, 07:49 AM
More 190 guys in Philly is all we need ;).... Then those guys being held for training can move on up... :)

What's the average amount of time that people are being held on the 190 until they can go to training?

LIOG41
02-10-2014, 07:55 AM
11 months for a friend of mine.

pilotkitch
02-10-2014, 08:00 AM
11 months for a friend of mine.

11 months past the seat lock or 11 months since initial?

CanoePilot
02-10-2014, 08:00 AM
I don't understand the 190. They only have 20 airplanes and it is such a mess to keep it staffed and operating. Why not just sell the fleet and get 20 a319s to replace them? If you can fill 100 seats you can fill 124.

LIOG41
02-10-2014, 08:02 AM
11 months past the seat lock or 11 months since initial?

Since Initial

pilotkitch
02-10-2014, 08:02 AM
I don't understand the 190.

I believe they are much cheaper to operate than the 319

meyers9163
02-10-2014, 08:17 AM
What's the average amount of time that people are being held on the 190 until they can go to training?

I've heard as much as 3 months.... I think they can hold no longer then 6 months? Maybe 757 or someone else knows for sure?

meyers9163
02-10-2014, 08:20 AM
I don't understand the 190. They only have 20 airplanes and it is such a mess to keep it staffed and operating. Why not just sell the fleet and get 20 a319s to replace them? If you can fill 100 seats you can fill 124.

Eh.... It has a need.... Only two FAs and normally good crews... It's a fun plane and I've noticed I normally have 90-99 passengers. That's 30 open seats on an Airbus which seems wasteful I'd say....

CamYZ125
02-10-2014, 08:24 AM
Guys a few numbers senior to me were not held at all. In fact, like someone mentioned already, they went to training 1 month before the seat lock was up. Looks like I'm being held for 1.5 months. I've heard others held for 3 months or so. It all depends on the needs of the airline and training department.

Saabs
02-10-2014, 08:27 AM
I don't understand the 190. They only have 20 airplanes and it is such a mess to keep it staffed and operating. Why not just sell the fleet and get 20 a319s to replace them? If you can fill 100 seats you can fill 124.

Its perfect for the shuttle

adam28
02-10-2014, 09:23 AM
Withholding hasn't been as bad latently. If you bid to DCA or CLT they seem to send you pretty quickly to avoid paying for hotels and expenses while still in PHL. If you bid to PHL then they have been withholding for about 2-3 months.

Smoke Toliet
02-10-2014, 09:36 AM
Any word on the actual class breakdown today?

70Espada
02-10-2014, 10:07 AM
Is relative position not good enough for them?

Sure as part of a merger, yes. They however were hired at the same company as west pilots, single operating certicate. Next time try comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Last time I checked it was DOH when getting hired at an airline, as a new hire. Once again, NOT in a merger scenario where one airline has 17 year reserve FOs and the other airline has 17 year senior captains. What happened to that golden standard? Is it that DOH only applies when it gives you a windfall? "Silly eastie, DOH is for newhires."

R57 relay
02-10-2014, 10:49 AM
There is a difference in training freeze(seat lock period-not allowed to bid another equipment on a system bid) and hold for training(when they can fit you in to school). In the '98 contract that training freeze was 12 months as a new hire, 18 months if your bid requires initial training and 24 months if you voluntarily down bid (e.g., you are a 737 F/O and voluntarily bid E190 F/O). Hold for training was increased to as much as 12 months under LOA 93.

All of the above is if I didn't miss any other changes in a LOA or the MOU sections that are effective!

The company can release you from your freeze at their discretion. Always check your bid selections when a bid comes out and don't bid it if you don't want it. There is a rumor out there that we had a 76 F/O screw up and bid E190 F/O. If so, he is stuck for 18 months. I hope it was a rumor or not his ex-wife that did it.

Oh, all of the above is US East contract.

EMBFlyer
02-10-2014, 10:53 AM
Any word on the actual class breakdown today?

If class just started today, they won't bid for equipment until tomorrow.

Irishish
02-10-2014, 12:19 PM
There is a difference in training freeze(seat lock period-not allowed to bid another equipment on a system bid) and hold for training(when they can fit you in to school). In the '98 contract that training freeze was 12 months as a new hire, 18 months if your bid requires initial training and 24 months if you voluntarily down bid (e.g., you are a 737 F/O and voluntarily bid E190 F/O). Hold for training was increased to as much as 12 months under LOA 93.

All of the above is if I didn't miss any other changes in a LOA or the MOU sections that are effective!

The company can release you from your freeze at their discretion. Always check your bid selections when a bid comes out and don't bid it if you don't want it. There is a rumor out there that we had a 76 F/O screw up and bid E190 F/O. If so, he is stuck for 18 months. I hope it was a rumor or not his ex-wife that did it.

Oh, all of the above is US East contract.

I heard this rumor too. Apparently he had a "percentage bid" on the 76. He fell just below his requested percentage, and viola, on to the next bid...190.

drinksonme
02-10-2014, 12:20 PM
If class just started today, they won't bid for equipment until tomorrow.

I was 11/11/13 class. The first thing we did on day one was bid. We all knew where we were going and what equipment when the sheet got to us. By 8:30am it was finished. We even bid aircraft training start dates. The class before and after me did the same. Not sure but things might have changed since your class. We could have been an anomaly as well.

R57 relay
02-10-2014, 01:07 PM
I heard this rumor too. Apparently he had a "percentage bid" on the 76. He fell just below his requested percentage, and viola, on to the next bid...190.

You have to watch that STAT CODE closely and make sure you aren't bidding E190 F/O instead of capt!

The 75/76 capt went pretty junior(only about 28 years) on the last bid. I bet some guys forgot they had it in there.

EMBFlyer
02-10-2014, 01:20 PM
I was 11/11/13 class. The first thing we did on day one was bid. We all knew where we were going and what equipment when the sheet got to us. By 8:30am it was finished. We even bid aircraft training start dates. The class before and after me did the same. Not sure but things might have changed since your class. We could have been an anomaly as well.

Day 1 was at HQ for my class. On Day 2 at the PHX Training Center, they brought the sheet in around 9 or 10. Took about 30 minutes and we all knew in real time.

kingairip
02-10-2014, 01:43 PM
Day 1 was at HQ for my class. On Day 2 at the PHX Training Center, they brought the sheet in around 9 or 10. Took about 30 minutes and we all knew in real time.

Same for me. I think they told us what was available on the first day so we could think about what our bid would be.

When are the new hires going to go to Dallas for Indoc? I thought I heard that would start happening quickly.

avigator
02-10-2014, 02:34 PM
Today's class had 3 phl 190s, 3 dca 320s, and 7 phl 320s.

texaspilot76
02-10-2014, 03:08 PM
You have to watch that STAT CODE closely and make sure you aren't bidding E190 F/O instead of capt!

The 75/76 capt went pretty junior(only about 28 years) on the last bid. I bet some guys forgot they had it in there.

Captain went "junior" at 28 years? Maybe you mean 18. If 28 years is junior, a lot of us don't have much to look forward to.

PRS Guitars
02-10-2014, 04:11 PM
We put our bid in first thing on a Day 1 at HQ. they handed us the sheet with no explanation and told us to bid.

R57 relay
02-10-2014, 05:11 PM
Captain went "junior" at 28 years? Maybe you mean 18. If 28 years is junior, a lot of us don't have much to look forward to.

No I meant 28. Aren't you flying on the east system? If so, that shouldn't be a shock. That was for the 75/76. For A320 I think it's running about 25-26. But there is nobody between that and 16 years.


I don't think it will be the same for you guys with over 800 age 60+ guys on the east

Irishish
02-10-2014, 05:39 PM
Captain went "junior" at 28 years? Maybe you mean 18. If 28 years is junior, a lot of us don't have much to look forward to.

Pretty sure that when 28 years is junior, that's a good thing for the REALLY junior people.

R57 relay
02-10-2014, 05:51 PM
Pretty sure that when 28 years is junior, that's ahave good thing for the REALLY junior people.

Very,very good. There are no guarantees in this business but I believe you guys will have the career we all dreamed of.

Irishish
02-10-2014, 05:54 PM
Very,very good. There are no guarantees in this business but I believe you guys will have the career we all dreamed of.

I am hopeful, but not ignorant of the past. Everyone I meet says what you said as well. I know for sure that for the first two years, a 1999 hire was thinking the same thing.

R57 relay
02-10-2014, 06:35 PM
I am hopeful, but not ignorant of the past. Everyone I meet says what you said as well. I know for sure that for the first two years, a 1999 hire was thinking the same thing.

I wish the best for all of you. I feel lucky being hired in '86. The guys hired in '88-'89 have hit every bump in the road.

crzipilot
02-10-2014, 07:06 PM
I am hopeful, but not ignorant of the past. Everyone I meet says what you said as well. I know for sure that for the first two years, a 1999 hire was thinking the same thing.

And still being told such every day out on the line. HAHA. Kid your going to have a great career here. Errrrrr...what happened to the last 15 yrs??!?!?!

R57 relay
02-10-2014, 07:10 PM
And still being told such every day out on the line. HAHA. Kid your going to have a great career here. Errrrrr...what happened to the last 15 yrs??!?!?!

Hey, up until the 3rd listers came along I was still being called a baby!

Eastie Pilot
02-10-2014, 07:39 PM
I heard this rumor too. Apparently he had a "percentage bid" on the 76. He fell just below his requested percentage, and viola, on to the next bid...190.


That's not a rumor. It actually happened exactly as you state. Luckily for him, since he bid F/O to F/O, he was able to bid E190 Captain on the next bid since you're allowed to upgrade off of a seatlock, as long as you're not on a downgrade (Capt to F/O) seatlock. It could have been much worse. The company will absolutely hold you to your bid, so be careful what you bid for.

70Espada
02-10-2014, 08:07 PM
Hey, up until the 3rd listers came along I was still being called a baby!

Lol! Yeah, it was so nice to be over the hill, ie past 30, and get called a baby. Actually that was a while ago, I guess I was cresting the hill. Sometimes I forget how long we've been fighting. Looking forward to it being over, one way or the other.

R57 relay
02-10-2014, 08:14 PM
Lol! Yeah, it was so nice to be over the hill, ie past 30, and get called a baby. Actually that was a while ago, I guess I was cresting the hill. Sometimes I forget how long we've been fighting. Looking forward to it being over, one way or the other.


30? Heck, try 40. Yeah, agree with you on the being over part.

Smoke Toliet
02-11-2014, 06:23 AM
The great fear of 3rd listers is that this SLI will be drawn out over 7 years with lawsuits. Fingers crossed.

UNDPilot
02-11-2014, 06:57 AM
The great fear of 3rd listers is that this SLI will be drawn out over 7 years with lawsuits. Fingers crossed.

If it was drawn out over 7 years, most 3rd listers would be able to hold group 2 captain on the east. Not the end if the world.

CanoePilot
02-11-2014, 06:59 AM
The great fear of 3rd listers is that this SLI will be drawn out over 7 years with lawsuits. Fingers crossed.

Keeping the east and west seperate would greatly benefit the third list.

VenetianFryCook
02-11-2014, 07:14 AM
Keeping the east and west seperate would greatly benefit the third list.

Keeping NOBODY separate and finally integrating our entire airline in to ONE unified group would greatly benefit EVERYBODY over the longer term. Wanting something bad for others for the benefit of yourself is the antithesis of unionism.

I want one unified airline with happy customers, making obscene profits, with the best pay and work rules in the business. And hot flight attendants.

Now is that too much to ask?? :D

Flaps30brakes2
02-11-2014, 07:31 AM
Keeping NOBODY separate and finally integrating our entire airline in to ONE unified group would greatly benefit EVERYBODY over the longer term. Wanting something bad for others for the benefit of yourself is the antithesis of unionism.

I want one unified airline with happy customers, making obscene profits, with the best pay and work rules in the business. And hot flight attendants.

Now is that too much to ask?? :D

This!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hueypilot
02-11-2014, 07:36 AM
I want one unified airline with happy customers, making obscene profits, with the best pay and work rules in the business. And hot flight attendants.

Now is that too much to ask?? :D

Count me in.

EMBFlyer
02-11-2014, 07:43 AM
And hot flight attendants.

You're not now?! I'm always flying with hot flight attendants.

They're constantly calling up asking me to cool it down in the cabin. :D

Wiskey Driver
02-11-2014, 08:11 AM
The great fear of 3rd listers is that this SLI will be drawn out over 7 years with lawsuits. Fingers crossed.

Don't let that worry you, there are ways to make sure there is no law suit.

WD at AWA

pilotkitch
02-11-2014, 08:50 AM
Keeping NOBODY separate and finally integrating our entire airline in to ONE unified group would greatly benefit EVERYBODY over the longer term. Wanting something bad for others for the benefit of yourself is the antithesis of unionism. I want one unified airline with happy customers, making obscene profits, with the best pay and work rules in the business. And hot flight attendants. Now is that too much to ask?? :D

Preach on preacher!!!

Trogdor
02-11-2014, 10:57 AM
When are the new hires going to go to Dallas for Indoc? I thought I heard that would start happening quickly.

May 1st according to the 737 Fleet CA.

CanoePilot
02-11-2014, 02:27 PM
May 1st according to the 737 Fleet CA.

Are they going to learn the American Airlines FOM or the us airways one?

FreighterGuyNow
02-11-2014, 05:52 PM
Joint manuals not till Spring 2015.

Laker24
02-12-2014, 09:36 PM
Is relative position not good enough for them?

When you were hired the company had already merged or was in the process of merging. It was up to the New US Airways to base you on the West side or the East side. So either way you would have been put on the bottom. Due to the lawsuit/USPA/Etc the groups have remained separate. So you think that entitles you to being senior to pilots you were hired beneath?

To put it another way if we end up in separate ops with AA and 5 years from now they hire 1,000 plus on the AA side should you be junior to any of them???


Third listers were not a product of merging two airlines where arbitration decides career expectations etc. There is no dispute as to where you belong on the US Airways list.

Smoke Toliet
02-14-2014, 12:38 PM
Keeping NOBODY separate and finally integrating our entire airline in to ONE unified group would greatly benefit EVERYBODY over the longer term. Wanting something bad for others for the benefit of yourself is the antithesis of unionism.

I want one unified airline with happy customers, making obscene profits, with the best pay and work rules in the business. And hot flight attendants.

Now is that too much to ask?? :D

100% agree

R57 relay
02-15-2014, 04:26 AM
When you were hired the company had already merged or was in the process of merging.

Could you be jumping to conclusions there? Notice the "them."

R57 relay
02-15-2014, 04:30 AM
So what happened with the west bid? I don't see the results on wings. Are there new hires needed in PHX? Did cacti get his captain seat back?

pilotkitch
02-15-2014, 07:20 AM
So what happened with the west bid? I don't see the results on wings. Are there new hires needed in PHX? Did cacti get his captain seat back?



Sounds like a handful of PHX new hires in the next class 2/24 and a few more in 3/24 class....

Hueypilot
02-15-2014, 07:32 AM
So if one (new hire) were to wind up in PHX....what does the picture look like as far as schedules, crash pads, etc versus getting awarded CLT? I'm in the 2/24 class and I live in Little Rock and will be commuting for a few years. Lots of mainline options out west but it's a double hop. CLT can be a single leg commute but I've only got three RJ flights to choose from.

UNDPilot
02-15-2014, 08:40 AM
So if one (new hire) were to wind up in PHX....what does the picture look like as far as schedules, crash pads, etc versus getting awarded CLT? I'm in the 2/24 class and I live in Little Rock and will be commuting for a few years. Lots of mainline options out west but it's a double hop. CLT can be a single leg commute but I've only got three RJ flights to choose from.

Last bid had the followig open for new hires in CLT:

11 A319
8 75/76

If you go to PHX, you will be stuck there until the SLI is done.

pilotkitch
02-15-2014, 08:59 AM
If you go to PHX, you will be stuck there until the SLI is done.

Has this been confirmed?

Hueypilot
02-15-2014, 09:16 AM
Last bid had the followig open for new hires in CLT:

11 A319
8 75/76

If you go to PHX, you will be stuck there until the SLI is done.

I realize that, just wondering what, if any movement there is, and what reserve would be like there vice CLT.

cactiboss
02-15-2014, 09:29 AM
So what happened with the west bid? I don't see the results on wings. Are there new hires needed in PHX? Did cacti get his captain seat back?
Yup, 757 captain byotch. Oh yeah, mid 1998 hire.

cactiboss
02-15-2014, 09:34 AM
Has this been confirmed?
Yes, the MOU doesn't allow for a single east west list until MB. Now the APA can change that if they so choose when they take over.

R57 relay
02-15-2014, 10:48 AM
Yup, 757 captain byotch. Oh yeah, mid 1998 hire.


Can always count on you to keep it classy. Congrats.

Eastie Pilot
02-15-2014, 11:37 AM
Yup, 757 captain byotch. Oh yeah, mid 1998 hire.


Make sure you tell them the entire story Leo.

Four 757 Captain slots were awarded to mid 98 hires because of
re-instatement rights under the America West Pilot's contract. That provision will go away once their is a JCBA. The 13 Narrowbody Airbus Captain slots that were awarded without re-instatement rights went almost 100 numbers senior. Until December 9th, 2013, 757 paid the same as the Narrowbody Airbus. In the past, 757 Captain went as junior as Airbus Captain because it was the same pay rate. Crazy thing is, a senior reserve or line holding A330 F/O or AB320 Captain will make more than you as the bottom 757 Captain. On future PHX bids, 757 Captain will go much more senior. You will be on the bottom until you're displaced. You won't have weekends or holidays off anymore. But the good news is, you won't have to work as hard for the same amount of money. However you will be a slave to your phone and Crew Scheduling.

cactiboss
02-15-2014, 12:15 PM
Make sure you tell them the entire story Leo.

Four 757 Captain slots were awarded to mid 98 hires because of
re-instatement rights under the America West Pilot's contract. That provision will go away once their is a JCBA. The 13 Narrowbody Airbus Captain slots that were awarded without re-instatement rights went almost 100 numbers senior. Until December 9th, 2013, 757 paid the same as the Narrowbody Airbus. In the past, 757 Captain went as junior as Airbus Captain because it was the same pay rate. Crazy thing is, a senior reserve or line holding A330 F/O or AB320 Captain will make more than you as the bottom 757 Captain. On future PHX bids, 757 Captain will go much more senior. You will be on the bottom until you're displaced. You won't have weekends or holidays off anymore. But the good news is, you won't have to work as hard for the same amount of money. However you will be a slave to your phone and Crew Scheduling.
Really? You scabs are something else. Me getting my seat back is a bad thing huh? Scum.

P.s. No bump no flush, toodles.

P.s.s Lots of guys junior to me 320 captains.

pilotkitch
02-15-2014, 12:18 PM
Really? You scabs are something else. Me getting my seat back is a bad thing huh? Scum.

Can we stop the path this is starting on and keep the food fight in the other threads? Has been some good information so far here and would like to keep it

cactiboss
02-15-2014, 12:31 PM
Can we stop the path this is starting on and keep the food fight in the other threads? Has been some good information so far here and would like to keepjust responding in kind

Eastie Pilot
02-15-2014, 12:43 PM
Really? You scabs are something else. Me getting my seat back is a bad thing huh? Scum.

P.s. No bump no flush, toodles.

P.s.s Lots of guys junior to me 320 captains.

It's not a bad thing at all Leo. I'm happy for you. Seriously. I was simply pointing out that if it were not for re-instatement rights you would not have gotten that seat back. You would not even have been able to hold an A320 Captain seat on this bid. But I do agree, 14 A320 Captains junior to you is "lots", even if they got there via re-instatement rights too. Congrats.

Eastie Pilot
02-15-2014, 12:50 PM
Can we stop the path this is starting on and keep the food fight in the other threads? Has been some good information so far here and would like to keep it


Kitch,

If you get the job and you want PHX, bid PHX. Just don't expect to move up very fast. There usually is only one PHX bid per year, so the few new hires announced for PHX will probably be the only ones this year. There is a slight possibility of another PHX bid at the end of the year. The East will have a Summer (June or July), Fall (Sept), and Winter (Nov or Dec) bid. Each one of those will probably add new pilots for attrition. New hires can currently hold widebody (767) slots on the East.

cactiboss
02-15-2014, 12:53 PM
It's not a bad thing at all Leo. I'm happy for you. Seriously. I was simply pointing out that if it were not for re-instatement rights you would not have gotten that seat back. You would not even have been able to hold an A320 Captain seat on this bid. But I do agree, 14 A320 Captains junior to you is "lots", even if they got there via re-instatement rights too. Congrats.the fact is several 98 hires are sitting left seat on 757, exactly where the Nicolau allows them to be either east or west, a fact btw that will be front and center in front of the MB arbitrators. Btw I will mostly likely hold a line, reserve is very senior.

pilotkitch
02-15-2014, 01:39 PM
Kitch, If you get the job and you want PHX, bid PHX. Just don't expect to move up very fast. There usually is only one PHX bid per year, so the few new hires announced for PHX will probably be the only ones this year. There is a slight possibility of another PHX bid at the end of the year. The East will have a Summer (June or July), Fall (Sept), and Winter (Nov or Dec) bid. Each one of those will probably add new pilots for attrition. New hires can currently hold widebody (767) slots on the East.

Thank you, I start next month and would prefer an east domicile due to the short term flexibility between PHL, DCA, and CLT but PHX would be closer (live in Vegas). I'm happy either way to just be joining the team

Hueypilot
02-15-2014, 01:51 PM
How soon would someone hold a line in CLT vice PHX?

cactiboss
02-15-2014, 03:11 PM
How soon would someone hold a line in CLT vice PHX?

Phx right now has 10 year reserves due to the east caused impasse. Advancement will definitely be quicker back east. Phoenix will be a very senior base for the new american anyways, better opportunities in the east coast.

cactiboss
02-15-2014, 03:12 PM
Thank you, I start next month and would prefer an east domicile due to the short term flexibility between PHL, DCA, and CLT but PHX would be closer (live in Vegas). I'm happy either way to just be joining the team

East coast will always be junior, better opportunities there.

Hueypilot
02-15-2014, 03:29 PM
Phx right now has 10 year reserves due to the east caused impasse. Advancement will definitely be quicker back east. Phoenix will be a very senior base for the new american anyways, better opportunities in the east coast.

Thanks. I'm trying to figure out where to go till the new AA is wide open. DFW is my long-term goal.

cactiboss
02-15-2014, 03:42 PM
Thanks. I'm trying to figure out where to go till the new AA is wide open. DFW is my long-term goal.

Dfw is the most senior base and will stay so. I hear some new hires got s80 there but will always be junior. MIA, JFK/LGA, PHL and ORD are the junior bases. The west coast is very senior not just for AA but for all other majors.

LIOG41
02-15-2014, 04:00 PM
Lots of changes for all bases in the next couple years, so it's too early to tell. So go where you want to live for awhile, and if the commute is bearable, do it. You'll eventually get any base you want sooner than later.

Hueypilot
02-15-2014, 04:20 PM
I've got a buddy of mine that's about to bid S80 captain out of DFW...he's been there awhile...his take is that in 2-3 years, a guy like me may be able to get DFW, or not be far from holding it. Until then I'm torn between PHX...I like the west, and lots of options to commute out there, but I'm aware I'll be reserve forever. CLT is a short flight from where I'm at (LIT) but it's all RJ traffic and I'd prob be reserve there for 18-24 months I hear. There's really no easy commute to the NE from LIT, so PHL/DCA don't sound too desirable.

Sliceback
02-15-2014, 04:27 PM
Dfw is the most senior base and will stay so. I hear some new hires got s80 there but will always be junior. MIA, JFK/LGA, PHL and ORD are the junior bases. The west coast is very senior not just for AA but for all other majors.


LAX is marginally senior to DFW.
ORD is junior to both of them is not as junior as LGA/MIA which tend to cycle as the most junior base.

Flipping a coin, at my seniority, MIA is slightly more junior.

In general, going back decades, the NE has been junior and California senior.

Retirements and route structure changes might make the future different from the present.

LIOG41
03-24-2014, 12:42 PM
So I guess there are around 13 new hires going to PHX in the last couple classes. Are they hired under the east contract or west?

cactiboss
03-24-2014, 01:14 PM
So I guess there are around 13 new hires going to PHX in the last couple classes. Are they hired under the east contract or west?

Same contract for everyone.

drinksonme
03-24-2014, 01:16 PM
^^^^Source? I do not know about the class that started this past Monday, but the class before them ALL got PHL. The class before that a total of 4 got PHX. As far as I know, from my source in the PHX Training Dept., only those 4 so far. Newest class could be more, haven't asked him. If hired West it's West rules. East get East(awful) rules. That is until ALL the rules of the MOU/MTA go into effect

It a shame too, all the USAPA crap, causing lots of US Airways pilots to be stuck. Worst new hirer position.....lives in CLT and got last choice in class....PHX. While classes ahead of him PHX dwellers got PHL and CLT, but can not switch. It not just new hirers either, many people are stuck because of an ugly battle that needs to end.

LIOG41
03-24-2014, 01:25 PM
Today's class they got 9 PHX airbus

drinksonme
03-24-2014, 01:26 PM
Same contract for everyone.

Really? Then why am I, second year third lister given East base, getting 1 day off less a month than new hirer given West, line bidding while West is PBS, use CATCREW while West uses Mistro(?), have a lower guarantee,.....it's not the same contract till we all are under the MTA/MOU. Someone recently asked USAPA reps why reserves were not getting the extra days off per the MOU yet. There response was because the company needs time to program the system and the capabilities are not there. So they can program FAR117, but not a day off....right. West has a much better contract then East and the MOU is better than East.....oddly only company improvements have been added to the system, but pilot improvements need time......thanks again USAPA.

drinksonme
03-24-2014, 01:26 PM
Double post

PurpleTurtle
03-24-2014, 01:41 PM
Don't let that worry you, there are ways to make sure there is no law suit.

WD at AWA

Don't worry, Leospanker will keep changing the print pattern on the $675 ties!:cool:

cactiboss
03-24-2014, 01:45 PM
Really? Then why am I, second year third lister given East base, getting 1 day off less a month than new hirer given West, line bidding while West is PBS, use CATCREW while West uses Mistro(?), have a lower guarantee,.....it's not the same contract till we all are under the MTA/MOU. Someone recently asked USAPA reps why reserves were not getting the extra days off per the MOU yet. There response was because the company needs time to program the system and the capabilities are not there. So they can program FAR117, but not a day off....right. West has a much better contract then East and the MOU is better than East.....oddly only company improvements have been added to the system, but pilot improvements need time......thanks again USAPA.
I stand corrected, I thought you guys had been brought up to west contract.

PurpleTurtle
03-24-2014, 01:47 PM
^^^^Source? I do not know about the class that started this past Monday, but the class before them ALL got PHL. The class before that a total of 4 got PHX. As far as I know, from my source in the PHX Training Dept., only those 4 so far. Newest class could be more, haven't asked him. If hired West it's West rules. East get East(awful) rules. That is until ALL the rules of the MOU/MTA go into effect

It a shame too, all the USAPA crap, causing lots of US Airways pilots to be stuck. Worst new hirer position.....lives in CLT and got last choice in class....PHX. While classes ahead of him PHX dwellers got PHL and CLT, but can not switch. It not just new hirers either, many people are stuck because of an ugly battle that needs to end.


Pilot groups fight. They always have and always will. Groups were fighting when I got here and new groups will be fighting about something different when I retire. Sometimes it affects you sometimes it doesn't. It is what it is. :cool:

PurpleTurtle
03-24-2014, 01:52 PM
Really? Then why am I, second year third lister given East base, getting 1 day off less a month than new hirer given West, line bidding while West is PBS, use CATCREW while West uses Mistro(?), have a lower guarantee,.....it's not the same contract till we all are under the MTA/MOU. Someone recently asked USAPA reps why reserves were not getting the extra days off per the MOU yet. There response was because the company needs time to program the system and the capabilities are not there. So they can program FAR117, but not a day off....right. West has a much better contract then East and the MOU is better than East.....oddly only company improvements have been added to the system, but pilot improvements need time......thanks again USAPA.


DUI isn't abiding by the contract and union pilots blame the union...

"Dividing the pilots is easier than getting drunk." ~~DUI, manager in chief of grievance explosions and sundry other diversions

drinksonme
03-24-2014, 02:06 PM
DUI isn't abiding by the contract and union pilots blame the union...

"Dividing the pilots is easier than getting drunk." ~~DUI, manager in chief of grievance explosions and sundry other diversions

I am blaming the "union" for not representing the pilots. Any person who has worked for someone knows that the company will do what's best for themselves first and drag out everything that helps the workers. I blame the company for well.....being a company, doing exactly what people expect. I blame the union for not finding a way to make the company follow the changes. You know set up and follow timelines. However, it is clear that the company and USAPA have their own ideas in what following timelines means. The reps that answered this guy who asked about MOU items not being implemented was very clear that the union is "working with and understanding of the company" during the transition. Problem is the only stuff that seems to be issue during the transition is worker related improvements.....thus the union is not representing its members. I've seen one email discuss the slow transition problems. However, it only addressed issues related to when pay starts with a full crew, ready to move airplane, and a non-crew related delay. A solution the company came up with.