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View Full Version : Commuting


7576FO
03-12-2014, 04:59 AM
Long ago I used to think, i'd never live in that "Mud-puddle" I'll commute.

But I just do not have the personality for it. Never have.

So I live in base. My whole career. I love it.

I do mentoring for the recallees and the new hires. I rarely visit the chief pilots office. Once a decade. Since I began speaking with actual new hires this week for the first time. I popped in.

He said, "Never Lie, and call the flt office if you need anything and ask. Most of the issues for missed trips in MIA are due to commuting and it is a problem!"

My friend aa73 commutes alot in his career here. He doesn't seem to have a problem. But then again, he is Charming and known to be a big tipper.

Hopefully he'll chime in here.

There is a Huge TDY for April. If you are a new hire and based in MIA and don't understand it feel free to write or post.


bluelion
03-12-2014, 06:47 AM
Does AA have a commuter clause?

aa73
03-12-2014, 06:49 AM
Glad to say, I dont commute no mo! Live in DC and based here. Never want to commute again, it truly sucked.

Big tipper? You meant "stripper" right? ��

Edit: in sims today and my sim P is Mike Ricotta, ex Reno. Says hi!


TQ Nola
03-13-2014, 02:11 PM
I commute (one guess as to where from). We were in the Keys for a couple years; I loved driving into work. Commuting sucks, and as soon as I can be a non-commuter again, I will.

The loads for me are pretty easy to deal with out of MSY, but it's the sheer waste of time that gets to me.

j1b3h0
03-14-2014, 07:26 AM
I don't recommend commuting - unless you want to stay married.

121PyLut
03-15-2014, 02:16 PM
Glad to say, I dont commute no mo! Live in DC and based here. Never want to commute again, it truly sucked.

Big tipper? You meant "stripper" right? ��

Edit: in sims today and my sim P is Mike Ricotta, ex Reno. Says hi!

I know Mike!!! Hello Mike!

Diesel1030
03-16-2014, 04:14 AM
I think everyone agrees commuting sucks and for some we are stuck doing it

Night Hawk 6
03-16-2014, 11:08 AM
Unfortunately there are numerous reasons for commuting. One of the most unfortunate is due to the company closing the base you moved to and the lack of a relocation package that adequately compensates you for the forced move. Except for the brief period the base we moved to was open I commuted and never had a missed trip, however things have changed dramatically with the domination of the "Beagle" in our market and the ever increasing load factors, commuting sucks. As long as it is allowed pilots will commute. In my case the sacrifice in time and upgrades, had to remain senior to get commutable schedules, were worth it however if I was starting all over again in todays world I would never commute by airplane.

Hueypilot
03-16-2014, 12:04 PM
I intend to commute only until the merger is complete, we have an ISL and I can hold DFW. Until then I can't force my wife to move her career around. Based on movement I'm hoping I'll only have to commute for a few years. We may even move to DFW in the meantime if a position opens up out there for my wife to transfer into, because there are far more options out of DFW than our current location.

Saabs
03-16-2014, 01:20 PM
It's not TOO bad if you commute on your own mainline metal and there is decent frequency. Reserving the jumpseat makes it stress free. But the question is which jumpseat policy do we keep.....

bluelion
03-16-2014, 05:39 PM
Soooo, does AA have a commuter clause?

NuGuy
03-17-2014, 04:44 AM
MIA can be a tough place to live. It's very expensive, and you get hit up with a lot of "hidden taxes" like the cost of auto insurance, which is 2x the national average. The cost of homeowners (with windstorm) will make you faint.

Plus the traffic is horrible.

In the three county area (Dade, Broward, Palm Beach), the cost of living is extremely high in general. It's tough to even find "open country" until you get pretty far north into PBC, and from there, that's at least a 90 minute drive to KMIA.

Some people, who are into the fishing or boating groove, dig it. But the unending grind of living down there annoys most people after a short while.

Nu

Sliceback
03-17-2014, 06:37 AM
Soooo, does AA have a commuter clause?

Supplement G. Be prudent. Tell CS ASAP. CS has a couple of options, dhd you to cover rest of your trip, give you new trip, etc.

Missed flying is unpaid.

It applies to planes, trains, and automobiles.

JKflight
03-17-2014, 10:05 PM
Questions for those that commute.....

If one is on reserve how many nights are you averaging away from home? Same question for those holding a primary and secondary block....

Also for arguments sake let say your home has 3-4 mainline nonstop per day to and from your base.

EMBFlyer
03-18-2014, 04:08 AM
Questions for those that commute.....

If one is on reserve how many nights are you averaging away from home? Same question for those holding a primary and secondary block....

Also for arguments sake let say your home has 3-4 mainline nonstop per day to and from your base.

I'm on the Airways side and commute from DFW to PHL. We have 5 non-stop flights on us per day (except for Sat).

When I sat short call, I was averaging around 7-8 nights at home per month. On probation (and under our old reserve rules), I would come up the night before, so that ate into a day off.

On long call (still on probation), there were times where Future would give me a trip that gave me an extra night at home, but I still would go up the night before if I didn't get one (just to be on the safe side). Now that I'm off probation, I do sit a home a little more often. I do this as long as I'm far enough down the list. When I'm close to the top of my bucket, I come into base.

There's a small window, that if called, I can't make it during the 10 hours (the window was larger when it was 9 hours).

Next month, I have my first Secondary. It's has 16 days off. Maybe 2-3 of the trips aren't front end commutable, so if I can't get anything off the bid sheet, I'll have to come up the night before. However, I'll definitely be home more.

Commuting sucks, but with our jumpseat system (which I pray survives), it does take some of the stress out of things. Hopefully, we'll work everything out before too long and I can be based at home.

Mox Nix
03-18-2014, 04:55 AM
Commuting sucks, but with our jumpseat system (which I pray survives), it does take some of the stress out of things. Hopefully, we'll work everything out before too long and I can be based at home.

So for those of us on the outside, can you give a quick explanation of the Airways jump seat policy? I've seen a few mentions of how everyone hopes it survives the merger, must be a pretty good deal.

Thanks!

Al Czervik
03-18-2014, 05:00 AM
Reserved by phone on a first come first served basis. 7 days from departure.

The Drizzle
03-18-2014, 05:10 AM
Reserved by phone on a first come first served basis. 7 days from departure.

Just to be more explicit. You book it, it's yours. Outside of the FAA or a line check, of course. One could, with a 2014 DOH, wave and nod to the 1983 hire left behind because they were faster to the booking.

adam28
03-18-2014, 05:20 AM
Even if the plane is weight restricted you still get on. They'll even pull a passenger off, for mainline only.

twoshadesblue
03-18-2014, 08:35 AM
How long are most guys being hired now on short call before moving to long call?

KPer
03-22-2014, 04:18 AM
Glad to say, I dont commute no mo! Live in DC and based here. Never want to commute again, it truly sucked.

Big tipper? You meant "stripper" right? ��

Edit: in sims today and my sim P is Mike Ricotta, ex Reno. Says hi!

How senior is DCA?

aa73
03-22-2014, 06:10 AM
It's pretty senior in that it's small (80 737 CA/FOs, even less on the S80) so movement is very slow. Bottom pilot here is around mid-8000s and I only see bid awards into here maybe every 3-4 months. Took me 6 months to get awarded it from when I put my bid in (I got withheld) and I am in the high 6000s. So might be a while to get awarded it...of course, with all the movement around here, that could change overnight.

kingairip
03-23-2014, 05:17 AM
The good news, then, is DCA is the junior base for US Airways. You can likely get it in Indoc (if not, shortly thereafter) and it's your fastest path to a line (outside of the E190, of course.)

Pirate
03-23-2014, 06:53 AM
The good news, then, is DCA is the junior base for US Airways. You can likely get it in Indoc (if not, shortly thereafter) and it's your fastest path to a line (outside of the E190, of course.)

Interesting. It'll be "fun" to see how the bases settle out after SLI!

MarineGrunt
03-23-2014, 08:39 AM
Interesting. It'll be "fun" to see how the bases settle out after SLI!

Anyone have guesses on how long the SLI will take? It looks like its not going so well right now...

Capt Hindsight
03-23-2014, 08:24 PM
Anyone have guesses on how long the SLI will take? It looks like its not going so well right now...

I believe the proper unit of measure for that would be in years. :o
Say two to three.

Capt H

DakBroadbent
03-23-2014, 09:35 PM
How big a difference will a new-hire see based on whether an Airways or AA hire, given a couple years until SLI completion. Dumb question?

Snoopy 01
03-23-2014, 10:03 PM
How big a difference will a new-hire see based on whether an Airways or AA hire, given a couple years until SLI completion. Dumb question?

I don't think it's a dumb question. I'm curious as well.

DarinFred
03-23-2014, 10:26 PM
I'm a US new hire and curious as well.

Sliceback
03-24-2014, 04:43 AM
How big a difference will a new-hire see based on whether an Airways or AA hire, given a couple years until SLI completion. Dumb question?


"Big a difference" in what? How soon you hold a line? What your merged seniority number will be? Pay in year 2? ???

kingairip
03-24-2014, 05:09 AM
The US Airways side will have significantly more attrition in the next few years.

Moonwolf
03-24-2014, 05:33 AM
The US Airways side will have significantly more attrition in the next few years.

Is that from retirements or people leaving to other airlines?

LIOG41
03-24-2014, 06:11 AM
My guess is end of next year.

The Drizzle
03-24-2014, 07:00 AM
Is that from retirements or people leaving to other airlines?

Retirements. It's not a large number, but a large percentage.

Jetdriver7
03-24-2014, 07:56 AM
I concur all due to retirements. I haven't heard of anyone mentioning leaving that is here, even that have no chance to be home based. The amount of movement is unreal. I was hired in aug of 2013, move on average 10-15 numbers a month up the 190 list. Presently only a couple people short of holding a secondary on the small bus in philly. It's incredibly fast.

Snoopy 01
03-24-2014, 08:12 AM
Is there any advantage for going with US vs AA in the long run? Post merger new hires should be integrated by DOH, right? Just go with the first that offers a class date?

kingairip
03-24-2014, 08:20 AM
Is that from retirements or people leaving to other airlines?

Retirements. It's not a large number, but a large percentage.

I don't think that was a serious question.


For those wondering, here are the data for the next five years*:

Legacy AA (Total Pilots = 9,600)
Retirements / Total since 2014 / Percent of list
2014 83 83 1%
2015 112 195 2%
2016 135 330 3%
2017 190 520 5%
2018 300 820 9%



Legacy US (Total Pilots = 5,159)
Retirements / Total since 2014 / Percent of list
2014 171 171 3%
2015 173 344 7%
2016 206 550 11%
2017 234 784 15%
2018 262 1046 20%


(* - Data were pulled off of APC several months ago. kingairip makes no claims on their veracity and will not be held responsible for any career decisions made as a result of this data.)

Sliceback
03-24-2014, 11:16 AM
Is there any advantage for going with US vs AA in the long run? Post merger new hires should be integrated by DOH, right? Just go with the first that offers a class date?

Get onboard. DOH is typical for post merger newhires.

levermonkey
04-06-2014, 06:15 AM
I'm on the 190 hired in oct sat short call reserve, Dec-Feb, March and April have been long call lines, should hold a secondary line by June. But the previous posters are right about only getting about 7-8 days a month at home due to the fact that I have to come in the night before since there are only 2 flts a day from slc to phl. All a means to an end. Since oct there's already over 300 people under me. Give it a couple years and you'll be able to be based where ever you want.

flybywire44
04-06-2014, 03:13 PM
Quote:





Originally Posted by Moonwolf


Is that from retirements or people leaving to other airlines?





Quote:





Originally Posted by The Drizzle


Retirements. It's not a large number, but a large percentage.




I don't think that was a serious question.


For those wondering, here are the data for the next five years*:

Legacy AA (Total Pilots = 9,600)
Retirements / Total since 2014 / Percent of list
2014 83 83 1%
2015 112 195 2%
2016 135 330 3%
2017 190 520 5%
2018 300 820 9%



Legacy US (Total Pilots = 5,159)
Retirements / Total since 2014 / Percent of list
2014 171 171 3%
2015 173 344 7%
2016 206 550 11%
2017 234 784 15%
2018 262 1046 20%


(* - Data were pulled off of APC several months ago. kingairip makes no claims on their veracity and will not be held responsible for any career decisions made as a result of this data.)

Airways percentage of retirement numbers are notable.

El Guapo
04-06-2014, 03:32 PM
The question is 5 years from now will the new AA have 14,700 pilots? Could easily be around 12,500-13,000.

Hueypilot
04-06-2014, 04:40 PM
I doubt they will. I'd say 12500-13000 would be a good number. But with the attrition, they'll still be hiring good numbers and there will still be movement barring a catastrophic economic meltdown.

fosters
04-06-2014, 04:56 PM
I don't think that was a serious question.


For those wondering, here are the data for the next five years*:

Legacy AA (Total Pilots = 9,600)
Retirements / Total since 2014 / Percent of list
2014 83 83 1%
2015 112 195 2%
2016 135 330 3%
2017 190 520 5%
2018 300 820 9%



Legacy US (Total Pilots = 5,159)
Retirements / Total since 2014 / Percent of list
2014 171 171 3%
2015 173 344 7%
2016 206 550 11%
2017 234 784 15%
2018 262 1046 20%


(* - Data were pulled off of APC several months ago. kingairip makes no claims on their veracity and will not be held responsible for any career decisions made as a result of this data.)
The longer East stays separate from the west, the better movement will be as well. I was told 80% of the EAST guys will be gone in 8 years.

Also, a quote from the APA, HALF of the combined list will be retiring by the end of 2024 (10 years or so). So in *theory*, a new hire today will be halfway up the list in a decade.

That being said I think retirements are similar at UAL and DAL, aren't they? So it's not like AA/US is anything special, except for the retirements off the east side alone.

fosters
04-06-2014, 04:58 PM
The question is 5 years from now will the new AA have 14,700 pilots? Could easily be around 12,500-13,000.

Maybe who knows. I will say the main reason why there are so many new hires this year is due mostly to 117 it seems. That has led to an increase in staffing by a decent amount (look at stated hiring goals vs. retirements, they are 2x or 3x the amount). So it's possible there will be even more pilots on property, and that doesn't even touch on possible QOL improvements in the contract increasing the need even more.

kingairip
04-06-2014, 06:19 PM
The question is 5 years from now will the new AA have 14,700 pilots? Could easily be around 12,500-13,000.

If things stay on track, the two sides combined will hire about 900 pilots this year. I don't think the plan is to shrink.

70Espada
04-06-2014, 08:44 PM
I don't recommend commuting - unless you want to stay married.

Exactly. I love this job/airline, but I love my family more. Good chance I will always commute.

flybywire44
04-07-2014, 05:08 AM
The question is 5 years from now will the new AA have 14,700 pilots? Could easily be around 12,500-13,000.

Delta reduced hubs, and consolidated ASMs into larger airframes reducing frequency. AA will do this to some extent as it's network realign. However, newAA has room to grow in Asia, and Africa at the expense of DAL and UAL margins.

Ultimately, world GDP will determine newAA net growth. Retirement statistics are certainly comforting.

Night Hawk 6
04-07-2014, 08:46 AM
Unfortunately history works against any hope for the new AA to keep the same number of pilots as it has today. The "shrink to profitability" mentality among the bean counters who actually run the airline will determine that there is more money to be made by not having to pay so many pilots. They will look at the landscape and move profitable assets to consolidate in an area where they think the assets can be more profitable and abandon the already profitable operation for an SWA or some new LCC to move in and make money. AA has done this for decades and my bet is they will do it again. History is a "B."

Sliceback
04-07-2014, 01:06 PM
Current bodies on property probably closer to 12,500-13,000. On list count is higher.

This year's hiring will barely cover the next two years retirements.

None of the recent mergers occurred in the current airline cycle (profitable).

AA retirement cycle leads DL/UA's.

workingforfree
04-07-2014, 01:12 PM
For US guys/gals:

If you were to commute from ORD, which base and a/c would you suggest for a new hire?

I was thinking CLT A320 might be the best option if available.

fosters
04-07-2014, 02:34 PM
For US guys/gals:

If you were to commute from ORD, which base and a/c would you suggest for a new hire?

I was thinking CLT A320 might be the best option if available.

Unless you are 40 or older you probably won't have a choice anyway...it will either be PHL AB or 190.

workingforfree
04-07-2014, 02:36 PM
Unless you are 40 or older you probably won't have a choice anyway...it will either be PHL AB or 190.

What if I am? ;)

Meccathor
04-07-2014, 04:01 PM
For US guys/gals:

If you were to commute from ORD, which base and a/c would you suggest for a new hire?

I was thinking CLT A320 might be the best option if available.

The 190 (only available in PHL) would let you commute to a line within a few months vs. reserve on the bus. You could probably hold a line on the bus in PHL by the time your seat lock is up. CLT would be a little longer before holding a line on the bus.

Hueypilot
04-07-2014, 06:28 PM
What if I am? ;)

What options are available in the class varies. Some classes it's all PHL, others are DCA heavy. Some have a few CLT spots, which nearly always go senior. We had a pretty big class (25), and although I'm 40, I was #10 out of 25. I believe the 190 is offered in every class.

meyers9163
04-08-2014, 07:01 AM
The 190 (only available in PHL) would let you commute to a line within a few months vs. reserve on the bus. You could probably hold a line on the bus in PHL by the time your seat lock is up. CLT would be a little longer before holding a line on the bus.

AB long call in PHL has happened for my class quicker then E190 long call.... The whole 190 is a quick line is true but only when they allow those who have awarded equipment to leave the 190.... My class might get secondaries in June which will be 7-8 month range. Not terrible but if AB stays the same for long call it might be the best bet....