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View Full Version : Skywest Pilot Arrested In Calgary


mike734
04-03-2014, 01:24 PM
Loaded handgun at airport gets U.S. pilot arrested in Calgary - Calgary - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/loaded-handgun-at-airport-gets-u-s-pilot-arrested-in-calgary-1.2597084)


AZFlyn1
04-03-2014, 02:05 PM
Hope this doesn't screw up KCM... Smh...

DSRoss996
04-03-2014, 02:14 PM
A Skywest pilot would never do such a thing.


NERD
04-03-2014, 02:16 PM
Yep. Something ALPA pushed for and spent lots of money(our money) to get thru, potentially gets ruined by a non-ALPA , non-union pilot.

Hope this doesn't screw up KCM... Smh...

JustAMushroom
04-03-2014, 02:25 PM
Hope this doesn't screw up KCM... Smh...

This has nothing to do with KCM. It was a .380 and he wasn't an FFDO. Sounds like he just forgot he had it in his bag.

Oops.

Emb170man
04-03-2014, 02:26 PM
If he passed through security in the US the day before and it was missed, that's a problem for TSA. If it wasn't caught because he went through KCM, that's a problem for the program.

PerpetualFlyer
04-03-2014, 02:34 PM
Yep. Something ALPA pushed for and spent lots of money(our money) to get thru, potentially gets ruined by a non-ALPA , non-union pilot.

You're right, because an ALPA pilot would never do such a thing... Think before you speak next time.

Pilot arrested at Buffalo airport with loaded gun in bag (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/05/piedmont-pilot-arrested-in-buffalo-with-loaded-gun-in-bag/1#.Uz3htYS9LCQ)

JustAMushroom
04-03-2014, 02:37 PM
If he passed through security in the US the day before and it was missed, that's a problem for TSA. If it wasn't caught because he went through KCM, that's a problem for the program.

Yes. First thought was FFDO. This sounds like problem if access through KCM.

BrewCity
04-03-2014, 02:40 PM
If any of you numb nuts would have read the article before commenting you would have comprehended the following facts:

1. The TSA has stated that Mr. Petty used Known Crewmember at SLC
2. Mr. Petty is not an FFDO

saturn
04-03-2014, 02:41 PM
This has nothing to do with KCM. It was a .380 and he wasn't an FFDO. Sounds like he just forgot he had it in his bag.

Oops.

It does relate to KCM. We all undestand he wasnt a FFDO, and doubt he had diabolical plans. Packing a hand gun in your lunch box may as well have been a grenade to the TSA, its a prohibited item. Pilots + prohibited items through KCM = ???
We speculate tighter measures taken as it concerns to crew security and searches.

AZFlyn1
04-03-2014, 02:48 PM
Yes. First thought was FFDO. This sounds like problem if access through KCM.

Article states he used KCM... Apology accepted Mr. Shroom!:D

AZFlyn1
04-03-2014, 02:51 PM
You're right, because an ALPA pilot would never do such a thing... Think before you speak next time.

Pilot arrested at Buffalo airport with loaded gun in bag (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/05/piedmont-pilot-arrested-in-buffalo-with-loaded-gun-in-bag/1#.Uz3htYS9LCQ)

Gotta love how people immediately turn crap like this into us vs. them....we need to work together not bash each other.. It was a stupid move done by someone who could've worked anywhere

TheFly
04-03-2014, 03:27 PM
Just plain stupid.

"Boy, I say that boy is as sharp as a bowling ball."

8ballfreight
04-03-2014, 04:00 PM
Eh, I don't see how this wouldn't have been thought of as a possibility by the powers that put the program in place.
Pilots have been forgetting guns in bags for as long as I can remember.

DD214
04-03-2014, 04:14 PM
Yep. Something ALPA pushed for and spent lots of money(our money) to get thru, potentially gets ruined by a non-ALPA , non-union pilot.


And your point IS...

US Airways flight attendant arrested in Rome for trying to carry a gun and ammo onto a plane | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2348998/US-Airways-flight-attendant-arrested-Rome-trying-carry-gun-ammo-plane.html)

CaptainNameless
04-03-2014, 04:51 PM
KCM is a trust-based system, plain and simple. Well, a small sliver of the crew population happen to be complete idiots. Doesn't mean you can't still trust them. Guaranteed the guy didn't know it was in the bag, unless he was really just that tired of doing Canada visits. We are trustworthy idiots.

Kill Switch
04-03-2014, 04:57 PM
KCM is a trust-based system, plain and simple. Well, a small sliver of the crew population happen to be complete idiots. Doesn't mean you can't still trust them. Guaranteed the guy didn't know it was in the bag, unless he was really just that tired of doing Canada visits. We are trustworthy idiots.

How do you know?

2 steps forward, 1 step back...

Just another pilot to make the rest of us look stupid and irresponsible.

Salukipilot4590
04-03-2014, 05:08 PM
...and I JUST got into the KCM system....nice.

mike734
04-03-2014, 05:21 PM
Lock him up. Don't punish the rest of us.

CaptainNameless
04-03-2014, 05:36 PM
How do you know?

2 steps forward, 1 step back...

Just another pilot to make the rest of us look stupid and irresponsible.

If he knew it was in the bag, did he think he was going to get it through the x-ray machine?

You could give a gun to every single airline pilot tomorrow, and the threat of malicious action by those pilots would be about zero. Accidents and theft would be the greater dangers. My point is we are all trustworthy, but a few are careless, so the real danger is like I said, theft or accidents. The guy had no intent to do anything with the gun in Canada, because he didn't think it was with him. Just a bad ooopsie.

MR JT8D
04-03-2014, 06:07 PM
I forgot, call ALPA's attorney's. NOT. Call ALPA's Aero-medical. NOT!

Who ya gonna call????????? GHOSTBUSTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL.....

Slats
04-03-2014, 06:19 PM
I forgot, call ALPA's attorney's. NOT. Call ALPA's Aero-medical. NOT!

Who ya gonna call????????? GHOSTBUSTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...

If I want to have someone try and convince me to take concessions, then I would call ALPA...

Coolbeans
04-03-2014, 06:24 PM
If I want to have someone try and convince me to take concessions, then I would call ALPA...

BURN!!!!!!!!!!!

80ktsClamp
04-03-2014, 06:29 PM
If he knew it was in the bag, did he think he was going to get it through the x-ray machine?

You could give a gun to every single airline pilot tomorrow, and the threat of malicious action by those pilots would be about zero. Accidents and theft would be the greater dangers. My point is we are all trustworthy, but a few are careless, so the real danger is like I said, theft or accidents. The guy had no intent to do anything with the gun in Canada, because he didn't think it was with him. Just a bad ooopsie.

No kidding. We already have something much more dangerous at our hands every day.

USMCFLYR
04-03-2014, 06:47 PM
Gotta love how people immediately turn crap like this into us vs. them....we need to work together not bash each other.. It was a stupid move done by someone who could've worked anywhere
Agreed - Some guys really will use any excuse to take pot shots at each other won't you?
And to think that this group talks so much about unity being the saving grace of this industry :rolleyes:

Kill Switch
04-03-2014, 06:51 PM
Here's a crazy idea for all of you who think it was just an honest mistake:

WHY PUT A HANDGUN IN A BAG YOU TAKE TO WORK!?!?!?

I'm a responsible handgun owner with a concealed carry permit...and the last place I would carry it in is something I fly with - whether to a gun range or just to the neighbors house.

Common sense tells the dog not to bite the hand that feeds him...but then again - there are dogs that are just too hungry or stupid to care.

JamesNoBrakes
04-03-2014, 06:51 PM
You could give a gun to every single airline pilot tomorrow

How many would get lost/stolen?

NERD
04-03-2014, 06:55 PM
I guess my point wasn't clear. If your union(whether it be swapa, apa, usapa, ibt, ipa, etc) was not directly involved in bringing kcm to fruition(both through PAC contributions and walking the halls in DC) then you shouldn't have access to KCM. That goes for JB, VA, etc. I am tired of my dues dollars being used for things that continue to benefit the profession and having the freeloaders get the same benefits. Like ALPA or hate em, they are the only real voice in DC. Not a ALPA cheer leader but a realist.

Now you may rant of all of the failures of ALPA(which have been many)

Salukipilot4590
04-03-2014, 07:00 PM
I guess my point wasn't clear. If your union(whether it be swapa, apa, usapa, ibt, ipa, etc) was not directly involved in bringing kcm to fruition(both through PAC contributions and walking the halls in DC) then you shouldn't have access to KCM. That goes for JB, VA, etc. I am tired of my dues dollars being used for things that continue to benefit the profession and having the freeloaders get the same benefits. Like ALPA or hate em, they are the only real voice in DC. Not a ALPA cheer leader but a realist.

Now you may rant of all of the failures of ALPA(which have been many)

God Bless America!

And no-place else!

Nevets
04-03-2014, 07:09 PM
Quote:





Originally Posted by NERD


Yep. Something ALPA pushed for and spent lots of money(our money) to get thru, potentially gets ruined by a non-ALPA , non-union pilot.




You're right, because an ALPA pilot would never do such a thing... Think before you speak next time.

Pilot arrested at Buffalo airport with loaded gun in bag

The point being that ALPA pilots paid to get this program approved by the TSA.


Quote:





Originally Posted by PerpetualFlyer


You're right, because an ALPA pilot would never do such a thing... Think before you speak next time.

Pilot arrested at Buffalo airport with loaded gun in bag




Gotta love how people immediately turn crap like this into us vs. them....we need to work together not bash each other.. It was a stupid move done by someone who could've worked anywhere

Work together? Join the party! Until you have an NMB recognized bargaining agent, you can't work together with the rest of us.


Quote:





Originally Posted by NERD


Yep. Something ALPA pushed for and spent lots of money(our money) to get thru, potentially gets ruined by a non-ALPA , non-union pilot.





And your point IS...

US Airways flight attendant arrested in Rome for trying to carry a gun and ammo onto a plane | Mail Online

Even the flight attendants' union helped push this program through. What's your point?


Quote:





Originally Posted by MR JT8D


I forgot, call ALPA's attorney's. NOT. Call ALPA's Aero-medical. NOT!

Who ya gonna call????????? GHOSTBUSTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...




If I want to have someone try and convince me to take concessions, then I would call ALPA...

Like the last pay proposal you guys voted in?


Quote:





Originally Posted by AZFlyn1


Gotta love how people immediately turn crap like this into us vs. them....we need to work together not bash each other.. It was a stupid move done by someone who could've worked anywhere




Agreed - Some guys really will use any excuse to take pot shots at each other won't you?
And to think that this group talks so much about unity being the saving grace of this industry

We are as strong as the weakest link. There is one pilot group who refuse to engage. Until then, there won't be unity.

swamp
04-03-2014, 07:33 PM
I guess my point wasn't clear. If your union(whether it be swapa, apa, usapa, ibt, ipa, etc) was not directly involved in bringing kcm to fruition(both through PAC contributions and walking the halls in DC) then you shouldn't have access to KCM. That goes for JB, VA, etc. I am tired of my dues dollars being used for things that continue to benefit the profession and having the freeloaders get the same benefits. Like ALPA or hate em, they are the only real voice in DC. Not a ALPA cheer leader but a realist.

Now you may rant of all of the failures of ALPA(which have been many)

Don't forget the Flight Attendants with clinging cat fur all over their uniform, or my favorite the ones with their boyfriends name tattooed on the back of their neck. Glad my ALPA dues could help.

John Carr
04-03-2014, 07:40 PM
Don't forget the Flight Attendants with clinging cat fur all over their uniform, or my favorite the ones with their boyfriends name tattooed on the back of their neck. Glad my ALPA dues could help.

Hey, as long as we're on this bash fest. How about the ones that walk up, scan their card, THEN take 5 minutes to dig through their luggage train looking for a secondary ID? Like they've NEVER been through this before, it's like the first time.

Take Priority
04-03-2014, 07:53 PM
Tim Martins could have gotten thru YYC security.

Salukipilot4590
04-03-2014, 07:56 PM
ITT: Pilots with superiority complexes.

rickair7777
04-03-2014, 07:59 PM
I guess my point wasn't clear. If your union(whether it be swapa, apa, usapa, ibt, ipa, etc) was not directly involved in bringing kcm to fruition(both through PAC contributions and walking the halls in DC) then you shouldn't have access to KCM. That goes for JB, VA, etc. I am tired of my dues dollars being used for things that continue to benefit the profession and having the freeloaders get the same benefits. Like ALPA or hate em, they are the only real voice in DC. Not a ALPA cheer leader but a realist.

Good on alpa for lobbying for this.

But the program is executed by government employees and paid for by tax dollars, so everyone gets access. Whatever delusional fantasies you have about pilot unions they have neither the right nor power to preempt public resources for their own sole benefit. If you want that, you need to join a government employees union.


If alpa wanted it to be exclusive they should have arranged to reimburse the government for the associated costs.

trip
04-03-2014, 08:41 PM
Sounds like an honest mistake with no criminal intent. No one was harmed besides this pilots career so no reason to come down on the rest of the industry.
lets all take this as a refresher on the importance of preflighting your luggage and keeping things separated at home.

Sniper
04-03-2014, 08:53 PM
Good on alpa for lobbying for this.

But the program is executed by government employees and paid for by tax dollars, so everyone gets access.

KCM is a subscription based-service. There is a fee per pilot, and thousands of ALPA pilots' union dues paid for the start-up costs. It aint' free (or 100% taxpayer funded), and not everyone gets access to it.

Just b/c your airline pays to keep you in it, buying you off in order to keep a union off your property, doesn't excuse your comments.

KCM was brought to you by ALPA and A4A (it says "Sponsored by ALPA and Airlines for America" right on the KCM website instead of 'a product of the TSA, available too all, and pushed through by Skywest, Virgin America, JetBlue and the AFA' for a reason). If you aren't associated with one, or both, of these programs, you're a free-loading leech. But, if you're non-union, that is a position you should be familiar with by now.

Doug Heffernan
04-03-2014, 08:54 PM
Loaded handgun at airport gets U.S. pilot arrested in Calgary - Calgary - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/loaded-handgun-at-airport-gets-u-s-pilot-arrested-in-calgary-1.2597084)

That is rich! I'm gonna need closure on this. Someone please post what happens to this dude when all is said and done. I'm curious to see how Inc. handles this situation when the authorities get through with him.....

PerpetualFlyer
04-03-2014, 08:59 PM
KCM is a subscription based-service. There is a fee per pilot, and thousands of ALPA pilots' union dues paid for the start-up costs. It aint' free, and not everyone gets access to it.

Just b/c your airline pays to keep you in it, buying you off in order to keep a union off your property, doesn't excuse your comments.

KCM was brought to you by ALPA and A4A (it says "Sponsored by ALPA and Airlines for America" right on the KCM website instead of 'a product of the TSA, available too all, and pushed through by Skywest, Virgin America, JetBlue and the AFA' for a reason). If you aren't associated with one, or both, of these programs, you're a free-loading leech. But, if you're non-union, that is a position you should be familiar with by now.

A free loading leech that gets to keep an extra 2% of their paycheck! Thanks for KCM, ALPA! I used it this morning!

John Carr
04-03-2014, 08:59 PM
Sounds like an honest mistake

A mistake is wearing a polka dot tie with a pin striped shirt.

Doing something that could potentially screw up a nice thing to have, something those of us that have been doing this since BEOFRE 9/11 and waited damned near a decade to get is slightly more than a "mistake". Potentially screwing things up for THOUSANDS of people is completely different. Can lessons be learned? Sure, but a "mistake", sorry, no. Being a being a firearm owner carries with it responsibility.

Maybe it's just me, but there's some items I have that don't EVER come close to others. One of them being one of my many firearms, and my luggage.

Sniper
04-03-2014, 09:13 PM
A free loading leech that gets to keep an extra 2% of their paycheck! Thanks for KCM, ALPA! I used it this morning!

As a former Pinacolaba guy, your ALPA dues were used to help set-up KCM initially.

Pat yourself on the back for a job well done.;)

Salukipilot4590
04-03-2014, 09:15 PM
Anyone just coming into this thread, this is why we cannot have nice things.

Congrats guys.

SKYWCRJCA
04-03-2014, 10:08 PM
I guess my point wasn't clear. If your union(whether it be swapa, apa, usapa, ibt, ipa, etc) was not directly involved in bringing kcm to fruition(both through PAC contributions and walking the halls in DC) then you shouldn't have access to KCM. That goes for JB, VA, etc. I am tired of my dues dollars being used for things that continue to benefit the profession and having the freeloaders get the same benefits. Like ALPA or hate em, they are the only real voice in DC. Not a ALPA cheer leader but a realist.

Now you may rant of all of the failures of ALPA(which have been many)

Well than as realist you should understand that a lot of money you give up in taxes are spent on the things you don't necessarily agree with. Realize you spent your dues to get a GOVERNMENT program started and not a private one.

While were on the subject of failures i guess you can add allowing non union carriers into KCM to the failure list.

DD214
04-03-2014, 10:09 PM
The point being that ALPA pilots paid to get this program approved by the TSA.



Work together? Join the party! Until you have an NMB recognized bargaining agent, you can't work together with the rest of us.



Even the flight attendants' union helped push this program through. What's your point?



Like the last pay proposal you guys voted in?



We are as strong as the weakest link. There is one pilot group who refuse to engage. Until then, there won't be unity.

Dude We get it you hate Skywest! Nothing new here.

SKYWCRJCA
04-03-2014, 10:24 PM
KCM is a subscription based-service. There is a fee per pilot, and thousands of ALPA pilots' union dues paid for the start-up costs. It aint' free (or 100% taxpayer funded), and not everyone gets access to it.

Just b/c your airline pays to keep you in it, buying you off in order to keep a union off your property, doesn't excuse your comments.

KCM was brought to you by ALPA and A4A (it says "Sponsored by ALPA and Airlines for America" right on the KCM website instead of 'a product of the TSA, available too all, and pushed through by Skywest, Virgin America, JetBlue and the AFA' for a reason). If you aren't associated with one, or both, of these programs, you're a free-loading leech. But, if you're non-union, that is a position you should be familiar with by now.

Your tax $ keeps that TSA smurf standing there to administer the check point. Without tax $ proping the program up the fee alone would not keep the program running. All you ALPA ZEALOTS !!!!PLEASE!!! by all means put your money where your mouth is and start a petition to kick out non union carriers from KCM! Guess what IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. All you guys do is vent hot air from an empty head.

aa73
04-04-2014, 03:33 AM
Skywest flies to Canada??? Since when do regionals do Intl???!!! 😎😜

All jesting aside, I also hope this doesn't jeapordize KCM.

Firsttimeflyer
04-04-2014, 05:48 AM
I really hope this guy just made a mistake. Lots of us are into shooting, most of us are smart enough to never cross utilize bags that we use for flying/shooting. If you use the same bags, now is the time to stop.

This happens to passengers all the time in the states. Canada, unfortunately is a whole lot less lenient.

trip
04-04-2014, 06:17 AM
That is rich! I'm gonna need closure on this. Someone please post what happens to this dude when all is said and done. I'm curious to see how Inc. handles this situation when the authorities get through with him.....


A quick search on previous incidents will answer your question.

TeddyKGB
04-04-2014, 07:08 AM
Sounds like an honest mistake with no criminal intent. No one was harmed besides this pilots career so no reason to come down on the rest of the industry.
lets all take this as a refresher on the importance of preflighting your luggage and keeping things separated at home.

I could see this being an honest mistake if he got caught in SLC but how does he continue to over look a gun in his suitcase over the course of a trip when you are living in and out of your suitcase? Honest mistake my arse.

Firsttimeflyer
04-04-2014, 07:11 AM
I could see this being an honest mistake if he got caught in SLC but how does he continue to over look a gun in his suitcase over the course of a trip when you are living in and out of your suitcase? Honest mistake my arse.

Do you check every pocket of every bag you carry before, during and after a trip?
Didn't think so.

Nevets
04-04-2014, 07:17 AM
Quote:





Originally Posted by rickair7777


Good on alpa for lobbying for this.

But the program is executed by government employees and paid for by tax dollars, so everyone gets access.




KCM is a subscription based-service. There is a fee per pilot, and thousands of ALPA pilots' union dues paid for the start-up costs. It aint' free (or 100% taxpayer funded), and not everyone gets access to it.

Just b/c your airline pays to keep you in it, buying you off in order to keep a union off your property, doesn't excuse your comments.

KCM was brought to you by ALPA and A4A (it says "Sponsored by ALPA and Airlines for America" right on the KCM website instead of 'a product of the TSA, available too all, and pushed through by Skywest, Virgin America, JetBlue and the AFA' for a reason). If you aren't associated with one, or both, of these programs, you're a free-loading leech. But, if you're non-union, that is a position you should be familiar with by now.

And it's not just kcm. ALPA has been lobbying for decades for things like ASAP, CASS, GPWS, TCAS, etc that all these people take advantage of.


Quote:





Originally Posted by Sniper


KCM is a subscription based-service. There is a fee per pilot, and thousands of ALPA pilots' union dues paid for the start-up costs. It aint' free, and not everyone gets access to it.

Just b/c your airline pays to keep you in it, buying you off in order to keep a union off your property, doesn't excuse your comments.

KCM was brought to you by ALPA and A4A (it says "Sponsored by ALPA and Airlines for America" right on the KCM website instead of 'a product of the TSA, available too all, and pushed through by Skywest, Virgin America, JetBlue and the AFA' for a reason). If you aren't associated with one, or both, of these programs, you're a free-loading leech. But, if you're non-union, that is a position you should be familiar with by now.




A free loading leech that gets to keep an extra 2% of their paycheck! Thanks for KCM, ALPA! I used it this morning!

So you are a lifer at Skywest, VA, Allegiant, or any of the other non-union carriers?

By the way, it's 1.9% at ALPA. Also, at other unions it's less than that. And it is tax deductible.


Quote:





Originally Posted by Nevets


The point being that ALPA pilots paid to get this program approved by the TSA.



Work together? Join the party! Until you have an NMB recognized bargaining agent, you can't work together with the rest of us.



Even the flight attendants' union helped push this program through. What's your point?



Like the last pay proposal you guys voted in?



We are as strong as the weakest link. There is one pilot group who refuse to engage. Until then, there won't be unity.




Dude We get it you hate Skywest! Nothing new here.

Hate is a strong word. I don't hate anyone. But I certainly don't like Inc management.


Quote:





Originally Posted by Sniper


KCM is a subscription based-service. There is a fee per pilot, and thousands of ALPA pilots' union dues paid for the start-up costs. It aint' free (or 100% taxpayer funded), and not everyone gets access to it.

Just b/c your airline pays to keep you in it, buying you off in order to keep a union off your property, doesn't excuse your comments.

KCM was brought to you by ALPA and A4A (it says "Sponsored by ALPA and Airlines for America" right on the KCM website instead of 'a product of the TSA, available too all, and pushed through by Skywest, Virgin America, JetBlue and the AFA' for a reason). If you aren't associated with one, or both, of these programs, you're a free-loading leech. But, if you're non-union, that is a position you should be familiar with by now.




Your tax $ keeps that TSA smurf standing there to administer the check point. Without tax $ proping the program up the fee alone would not keep the program running. All you ALPA ZEALOTS !!!!PLEASE!!! by all means put your money where your mouth is and start a petition to kick out non union carriers from KCM! Guess what IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. All you guys do is vent hot air from an empty head.

I think we all know that won't happen. Certain pilot groups may get excluded if they continually abuse kcm. But what we are saying is that is instead of free loading, pull your weight. It's not just kcm that pilot unions have fought to get for all of our benefits.

TeddyKGB
04-04-2014, 07:17 AM
Do you check every pocket of every bag you carry before, during and after a trip?
Didn't think so.

A gun is a bulky heavy item that simply isn't overlooked. Overlooking it in SLC would have been his mulligan but over the course of a trip I say BS. And yes, I pretty much always know what is in every pocket of my bags and they have a different look and feel if there is something heavy and bulky in a flap that isn't normally there.

Firsttimeflyer
04-04-2014, 07:22 AM
Hopefully you guys bashing ANY airline that isn't ALPA for using the KCM realizes each airline uses KCM on a subscription basis...meaning they pay into the system for their crews.

Take a look at the long list of airlines approved for the program on the KCM website and you will see several that are not ALPA. And even more are coming now that 135 operators are approved for the program.

Monkeyfly
04-04-2014, 07:26 AM
KCM is a subscription based-service. There is a fee per pilot, and thousands of ALPA pilots' union dues paid for the start-up costs. It aint' free (or 100% taxpayer funded), and not everyone gets access to it.

Just b/c your airline pays to keep you in it, buying you off in order to keep a union off your property, doesn't excuse your comments.

KCM was brought to you by ALPA and A4A (it says "Sponsored by ALPA and Airlines for America" right on the KCM website instead of 'a product of the TSA, available too all, and pushed through by Skywest, Virgin America, JetBlue and the AFA' for a reason). If you aren't associated with one, or both, of these programs, you're a free-loading leech. But, if you're non-union, that is a position you should be familiar with by now.

+1


Yep.................

Firsttimeflyer
04-04-2014, 07:29 AM
A gun is a bulky heavy item that simply isn't overlooked. Overlooking it in SLC would have been his mulligan but over the course of a trip I say BS. And yes, I pretty much always know what is in every pocket of my bags and they have a different look and feel if there is something heavy and bulky in a flap that isn't normally there.

You obviously didn't read the article or are ignorant about guns. The smith and Wesson body guard weighs under 12 ounces. 7 rounds of .380 adds just a bit more.

So you are now telling me that you can tell when a gun that is less than the size of a hand and less than a pound is at in your bag because it will give off a different look and feel different when carrying/rolling your bag? Seriously?

Nevets
04-04-2014, 07:31 AM
Hopefully you guys bashing ANY airline that isn't ALPA for using the KCM realizes each airline uses KCM on a subscription basis...meaning they pay into the system for their crews.

Take a look at the long list of airlines approved for the program on the KCM website and you will see several that are not ALPA. And even more are coming now that 135 operators are approved for the program.

Go back and reread some of the posts above. It's been explained already. The kcm idea and program was lobbied by (mostly) ALPA and other unions. ALPA was the push to have the predecessor, CREWPASS, initiated and also paid for the hardware to run that program. Once the trial system was over, ALPA and the TSA came up with kcm but needed a way to fund it. That is where individual airlines come into play. But if it wasn't for ALPA, there wouldn't be a program for your airline to pay in order for us to bypass security.

cmesoar
04-04-2014, 07:39 AM
Go back and reread some of the posts above. It's been explained already. The kcm idea and program was lobbied by (mostly) ALPA and other unions. ALPA was the push to have the predecessor, CREWPASS, initiated and also paid for the hardware to run that program. Once the trial system was over, ALPA and the TSA came up with kcm but needed a way to fund it. That is where individual airlines come into play. But if it wasn't for ALPA, there wouldn't be a program for your airline to pay in order for us to bypass security.

I guess it is quite expensive since there are now tens of thousands of cabin crew that use KCM. I do not believe this incident will cancel KCM, but I do believe this pilot should be removed from using KCM and or fired. I find it hard to believe he did not discover his gun on the overnight before he went to the airport.

Firsttimeflyer
04-04-2014, 07:39 AM
Go back and reread some of the posts above. It's been explained already. The kcm idea and program was lobbied by (mostly) ALPA and other unions. ALPA was the push to have the predecessor, CREWPASS, initiated and also paid for the hardware to run that program. Once the trial system was over, ALPA and the TSA came up with kcm but needed a way to fund it. That is where individual airlines come into play. But if it wasn't for ALPA, there wouldn't be a program for your airline to pay in order for us to bypass security.

I am very aware, I was ALPA when crew pass started, constantly used crew pass and was ecstatic when KCM came to my home airport. My dues paid into the system to get it off the ground. The airline I work out now pays for my access even though I am no longer ALPA.

So does that make me a free loading leech or any of the other great comments my fellow professionals have made here?

What about this guy? I haven't seen his name and don't know his history. Is it possible he could be a furloughed guy from an ALPA carrier or a Comair guy that went to Skywest. Plenty of Comair guys went to other regionals, I know several that went to ASA/XJT.

Firsttimeflyer
04-04-2014, 07:46 AM
All I'm saying is give the guy the benefit of the doubt before stringing him up. The innocent until proven guilty thing still exists in my mind. Mistakes happen, no matter how stupid they seem to appear, they still happen.

jaded
04-04-2014, 07:57 AM
Let's not forget for those of you that are harping on JB, VX, SKW and whoever else are non union/non ALPA. Most of us have at one point or another paid dues to ALPA. I've personally been an ALPA member for 3 previous airlines before joining VX.

Natca
04-04-2014, 08:02 AM
Also remember that alpa has and currently has a policy not to accept new airlines into their union due to lack of funding for a drive. Bow jetblue may be big enough but for the rest of the world in the sub 500 pilot group the will not accept them. Teamsters has about a 200 pilot minumim aswell for them to see profitability.

SKYWCRJCA
04-04-2014, 08:08 AM
Let's not forget for those of you that are harping on JB, VX, SKW and whoever else are non union/non ALPA. Most of us have at one point or another paid dues to ALPA. I've personally been an ALPA member for 3 previous airlines before joining VX.

Nevets and the zealots will just say your a "sellout". As far as real action he and zealots just complain and attack others for using KCM but say a petition to get rid of non union carriers would fail. Nevets do you know why it would fail? It would fail because A4A formerly ATA is the other very large lobbing group that lobbied for KCM. Who are the members of A4A? It is buisnesses mostly made up of non union enployees.

sandlapper223
04-04-2014, 08:15 AM
This pilot screwed the pooch big. And it may have serious implications for the rest of us.

He allegedly used KCM screening in the U.S. And brought a firearm into The Peoples' Socialist Mooseville of Canada? That place HATES guns. I'm sure the State Department is already kissing Canada's A$$. They will never repent. If Canada ever lets their meat hooks off the poor guy, he'll have trouble going back there again. For a long time. It'd be a shame to lose KCM over this. But a few more of these with pilots and it's game over. Bet.

LNL76
04-04-2014, 09:06 AM
What I find entertaining is how some of you say give the guy a break since he probably forgot the gun was in his bag. Funny you didn't have the same reaction when a cat rancher did the same. Hypocrites much?





MEEEEOOOWWWWWW! :)

ManFlex
04-04-2014, 09:26 AM
Hopefully you guys bashing ANY airline that isn't ALPA for using the KCM realizes each airline uses KCM on a subscription basis...meaning they pay into the system for their crews.

Take a look at the long list of airlines approved for the program on the KCM website and you will see several that are not ALPA. And even more are coming now that 135 operators are approved for the program.

If these incidents happen, KCM will be gone in a few years. Allowing FAs and 135 pilots into the mix further widens the chances of more prohibited items getting through. Nothing against them personally, but the pool of eligible people for KCM is getting pretty huge. And to the rest of the world, we are already the laughing stock of aviation security.

paxhauler85
04-04-2014, 09:27 AM
What I find entertaining is how some of you say give the guy a break since he probably forgot the gun was in his bag. Funny you didn't have the same reaction when a cat rancher did the same. Hypocrites much?





MEEEEOOOWWWWWW! :)

Only the dense guys wearing the rose colored glasses are saying that. They're both idiots and deserve whatever happens to them.

He screwed up plain and simple. Now he gets to deal with the consequences.

Shobra
04-04-2014, 09:31 AM
Its just sad

vilcas
04-04-2014, 09:39 AM
If the gun was loaded I say put him on the no fly list and strip him of his ATP ( moral character in question).

TeddyKGB
04-04-2014, 11:18 AM
Anybody who accidently leaves home with a gun and goes to an airport, not once but twice with that gun, has no business having a gun.

vilcas
04-04-2014, 11:48 AM
Too early to call it a trend but: Skywest pilot + SLC based = Law Broken

Undrfly
04-04-2014, 12:14 PM
Yup mistakes happen. Like the US Airways pilot that fired his gun in the cockpit in 2008... You can blame pilots for lack of responsibility or you can call it a mistake. It's all just a matter of perception. My navy blue is a different shade than your navy blue.

SaltyDog
04-04-2014, 12:17 PM
Agree with not mixing bags for any reason!
Not smart and causes most of these "mistakes"
Bad habit to engage in.

Firsttimeflyer
04-04-2014, 12:30 PM
Anybody who accidently leaves home with a gun and goes to an airport, not once but twice with that gun, has no business having a gun.

You never responded to my other post. How do you know he even paid attention to it. He may not have checked the bag contents when he got to the hotel.

Scenario:
What if he is just coming back from vacation, he used his bag while taking his family on a driving vacation, he has a concealed carry permit and put the gun in the bag. He might not have taken the gun out of the bag the whole trip, or maybe things went crazy with wife and kids as we all know can easily happen, he forgets he put the gun in the bag. Family is crazy when he gets home, he quickly rushes to get his bag packed or maybe he is on reserve and wasn't expecting the call because of his priority on the call list, or maybe a volunteer assignment came up for extra pay. He quickly grabs his stuff, goes through KCM like any other time, still forgetting he had the gun in the bag.
He gets to the overnight, doesn't think anything about looking in the pocket it was in because he never uses that pocket. He has no need for anything in that pocket. The only time he realizes he has a gun is when he goes through security and they see it. Oh **** moment. It happens to be in canada where they don't see this as often as the US and go crazy with the charges for a simple mistake.

This is just an example of what could have happened. Personally my travel bag never gets used for anything gun related because I wouldn't want a scenario like this to happen on accident. He may not have thought that far ahead. Simple mind slip.

I hope NONE of you guys ever make a mistake and the long arm of the law comes crashing down. Then all of us on here can armchair quarterback what a horrible person you are, a leech, a detriment to the career and hope to see your career and your certificates stripped away like they were nothing. That is the types of things I am seeing you guys write. Pretty sad that you guys seriously stoop this low based on a single media written article without any facts of what led up to the event.

Take a step back and think how many of your friends or colleagues or even yourself made a mistake that could have ended up badly, or you can see how it could have happened once all the facts come out. Think of your ASAP programs and the reports that come out and the mistakes people make. And not one single airline is above this. I can rattle off a list of massive screw ups at every airline that could have ended up in serious accidents because of simple mistakes.

Undrfly
04-04-2014, 12:37 PM
You never responded to my other post. How do you know he even paid attention to it. He may not have checked the bag contents when he got to the hotel.

Scenario:
What if he is just coming back from vacation, he used his bag while taking his family on a driving vacation, he has a concealed carry permit and put the gun in the bag. He might not have taken the gun out of the bag the whole trip, or maybe things went crazy with wife and kids as we all know can easily happen, he forgets he put the gun in the bag. Family is crazy when he gets home, he quickly rushes to get his bag packed or maybe he is on reserve and wasn't expecting the call because of his priority on the call list, or maybe a volunteer assignment came up for extra pay. He quickly grabs his stuff, goes through KCM like any other time, still forgetting he had the gun in the bag.
He gets to the overnight, doesn't think anything about looking in the pocket it was in because he never uses that pocket. He has no need for anything in that pocket. The only time he realizes he has a gun is when he goes through security and they see it. Oh **** moment. It happens to be in canada where they don't see this as often as the US and go crazy with the charges for a simple mistake.

This is just an example of what could have happened. Personally my travel bag never gets used for anything gun related because I wouldn't want a scenario like this to happen on accident. He may not have thought that far ahead. Simple mind slip.

I hope NONE of you guys ever make a mistake and the long arm of the law comes crashing down. Then all of us on here can armchair quarterback what a horrible person you are, a leech, a detriment to the career and hope to see your career and your certificates stripped away like they were nothing. That is the types of things I am seeing you guys write. Pretty sad that you guys seriously stoop this low based on a single media written article without any facts of what led up to the event.

Take a step back and think how many of your friends or colleagues or even yourself made a mistake that could have ended up badly, or you can see how it could have happened once all the facts come out. Think of your ASAP programs and the reports that come out and the mistakes people make. And not one single airline is above this. I can rattle off a list of massive screw ups at every airline that could have ended up in serious accidents because of simple mistakes.

You hit the nail on the head.

exwaterski
04-04-2014, 12:47 PM
I'm not trashing the guy I hope he gets to keep his job. But I do think a temporary suspension of SkyWest from KCM would be an appropriate punishment. If you guys want to protect him as one of your own that's fine I get it. But you can also go through the regular security line for a few months.

wrxpilot
04-04-2014, 01:00 PM
I'm not trashing the guy I hope he gets to keep his job. But I do think a temporary suspension of SkyWest from KCM would be an appropriate punishment. If you guys want to protect him as one of your own that's fine I get it. But you can also go through the regular security line for a few months.

Why would I, as a Skywest pilot based in Denver, be forced out of KCM as "punishment"? That really is one of the most idiotic things I've read on here...

One observation I've had with this thread... I now know why places like VA, AA, Delta, and FedEx are making candidates take a psych profile test. The crap some of you guys write on these forums is incredibly immature, and quite frankly indicative of major personality problems.

I don't think any of us that have spoken up against the pitchfork crowd have suggested this person be let off with no consequences. Obviously this is a major charge, and if it really did happen he's going to need to face up to it. But at the same time, my only wish is that he can eventually move on with his life and not be left in ruins. How in the heck is that helpful for any of us?

I'm glad that I've faced hardships in my life, and that I have first hand dealt with people that have had their lives destroyed for one reason or another. It has instilled in me a sense of compassion, while also acknowledging justice.

Unfortunately we now live in a society that practically takes glea in others misfortune, and I really find that to be sad. This seems to have been building over the last 15 years or so, and I'm not sure why... Perhaps reality TV, sheltered lives, or some combination of the two.

Undrfly
04-04-2014, 01:07 PM
I'm not trashing the guy I hope he gets to keep his job. But I do think a temporary suspension of SkyWest from KCM would be an appropriate punishment. If you guys want to protect him as one of your own that's fine I get it. But you can also go through the regular security line for a few months.

How would punishing the rest of the SkyWest group solve anything? He could have got hired anywhere and worked at any other airline. It's not appropriate to punish the SkyWest group. If you want an appropriate punishment, then all airlines should have to go through regular security lines for a couple months (which is a dumb idea anyway). Singling out a pilot group does absolutely nothing when there are thousands of others going through KCM on a daily bases. I wouldn't be surprised if you see bag scanners near KCM checkpoints... I know it would defeat the whole purpose but I bet if it does come up they will just say " while we spend a few seconds to check your credentials, we might as well run your bag through a scanner." Ya never know!

clearprop
04-04-2014, 01:10 PM
Why would I, as a Skywest pilot based in Denver, be forced out of KCM as "punishment"? That really is one of the most idiotic things I've read on here...

One observation I've had with this thread... I now know why places like VA, AA, Delta, and FedEx are making candidates take a psych profile test. The crap some of you guys write on these forums is incredibly immature, and quite frankly indicative of major personality problems.

I don't think any of us that have spoken up against the pitchfork crowd have suggested this person be let off with no consequences. Obviously this is a major charge, and if it really did happen he's going to need to face up to it. But at the same time, my only wish is that he can eventually move on with his life and not be left in ruins. How in the heck is that helpful for any of us?

I'm glad that I've faced hardships in my life, and that I have first hand dealt with people that have had their lives destroyed for one reason or another. It has instilled in me a sense of compassion, while also acknowledging justice.

Unfortunately we now live in a society that practically takes glea in others misfortune, and I really find that to be sad. This seems to have been building over the last 15 years or so, and I'm not sure why... Perhaps reality TV, sheltered lives, or some combination of the two.

+1
Not enough Windex in Walmart for all the glass houses on this forum.

frozenboxhauler
04-04-2014, 01:12 PM
KCM is a subscription based-service. There is a fee per pilot, and thousands of ALPA pilots' union dues paid for the start-up costs. It aint' free (or 100% taxpayer funded), and not everyone gets access to it.

Just b/c your airline pays to keep you in it, buying you off in order to keep a union off your property, doesn't excuse your comments.

KCM was brought to you by ALPA and A4A (it says "Sponsored by ALPA and Airlines for America" right on the KCM website instead of 'a product of the TSA, available too all, and pushed through by Skywest, Virgin America, JetBlue and the AFA' for a reason). If you aren't associated with one, or both, of these programs, you're a free-loading leech. But, if you're non-union, that is a position you should be familiar with by now.

You're right, Sniper, no KCM for the "purple" boys and girls and we're ALPA!
fbh

Firsttimeflyer
04-04-2014, 01:19 PM
I'm not trashing the guy I hope he gets to keep his job. But I do think a temporary suspension of SkyWest from KCM would be an appropriate punishment. If you guys want to protect him as one of your own that's fine I get it. But you can also go through the regular security line for a few months.


Should we also take away the certificates of all pilots at every airline when one of their pilots makes a mistake that gets them enforcement action or an investigation from the FAA? Did you even read what you wrote down before you hit submit?

exwaterski
04-04-2014, 01:26 PM
How would punishing the rest of the SkyWest group solve anything? He could have got hired anywhere and worked at any other airline. It's not appropriate to punish the SkyWest group. If you want an appropriate punishment, then all airlines should have to go through regular security lines for a couple months (which is a dumb idea anyway). Singling out a pilot group does absolutely nothing when there are thousands of others going through KCM on a daily bases. I wouldn't be surprised if you see bag scanners near KCM checkpoints... I know it would defeat the whole purpose but I bet if it does come up they will just say " while we spend a few seconds to check your credentials, we might as well run your bag through a scanner." Ya never know!

The TSA is not going to let this slide they are going to want blood. You really think it's more fair for every airline to get banned? You guys are all bending over backwards to apologize until it might effect you personally and then suddenly it's "oh he could have been hired anywhere." Ha Ha.. I just wanted to throw it out there and jerk your chain a little to see the reaction and you guys did not disappoint. ;)

kronan
04-04-2014, 01:27 PM
If you're a 72 year old from Texas, not an issue. Hope skywest just gives him some time to reflect on his errors

Senior nabbed with gun at airport | The London Free Press (http://www.lfpress.com/2013/03/19/crown-drops-charges-against-72-year-old-texan-who-had-loaded-hand-gun)

Firsttimeflyer
04-04-2014, 01:28 PM
The TSA is not going to let this slide they are going to want blood. You really think it's more fair for every airline to get banned? You guys are all bending over backwards to apologize until it might effect you personally and then suddenly it's "oh he could have been hired anywhere." Ha Ha.. I just wanted to throw it out there and jerk your chain a little to see the reaction and you guys did not disappoint. ;)

Or you realized what an ignorant statement you made and now that it was quoted you play the backpedal game....guess the chain can get jerked a couple ways.

Firsttimeflyer
04-04-2014, 01:29 PM
If you're a 72 year old from Texas, not an issue. Hope skywest just gives him some time to reflect on his errors

Senior nabbed with gun at airport | The London Free Press (http://www.lfpress.com/2013/03/19/crown-drops-charges-against-72-year-old-texan-who-had-loaded-hand-gun)


This happens dozens and dozens of times a year. I think it's actually in the hundreds of times a year if I can remember the numbers I saw from last years TSA report.

SKYWCRJCA
04-04-2014, 01:35 PM
You're right, Sniper, no KCM for the "purple" boys and girls and we're ALPA!
fbh

How is FedEx or UPS not on the list?! You APLA blow hards do fine job of blowing your own ship out of the water!

HappyCrew
04-04-2014, 01:37 PM
Lock him up. Don't punish the rest of us.

Seriously, you want to lock his ass up because he made a foolish mistake? Are you aware of the circumstances surrounding this incident? Do you know what his intentions were or are you just ready to lock him up? It was definitely a dumb move on the pilots part and I'll be ****ed if we get KCM screwed with, but I think its a little too soon to lock the guy up and throw away the key.:D

exwaterski
04-04-2014, 01:38 PM
Or you realized what an ignorant statement you made and now that it was quoted you play the backpedal game....guess the chain can get jerked a couple ways.

No I knew it would p-ss you off. You guys are all going to great lengths to defend a boneheaded move by one of your own but as soon as I floated the idea of letting your pilot group "take one for the team" the response was instant and vicious.

Undrfly
04-04-2014, 01:47 PM
The TSA is not going to let this slide they are going to want blood. You really think it's more fair for every airline to get banned? You guys are all bending over backwards to apologize until it might effect you personally and then suddenly it's "oh he could have been hired anywhere." Ha Ha.. I just wanted to throw it out there and jerk your chain a little to see the reaction and you guys did not disappoint. ;)

If there was only two choices: ban SkyWest or ban all airlines, then I would say, yes ban all airlines. However as I put in parentheses in my my follow up post to your post , I think it is a dumb idea to do either. Just have KCM checkpoints with bag scanners... Problem solved. Without actually knowing what's in every pilots bag, silly nuisances like this will be ongoing. Sparse, but ongoing. It would take an additional 15-20 seconds to put a bag through. And, for the "off the wall" pilot who does decide to bring something that could harm people, it could be avoided.

And for the record I don't work for SkyWest.

HappyCrew
04-04-2014, 02:01 PM
If there was only two choices: ban SkyWest or ban all airlines, then I would say, yes ban all airlines. However as I put in parentheses in my my follow up post to your post , I think it is a dumb idea to do either. Just have KCM checkpoints with bag scanners... Problem solved. Without actually knowing what's in every pilots bag, silly nuisances like this will be ongoing. Sparse, but ongoing. It would take an additional 15-20 seconds to put a bag through. And, for the "off the wall" pilot who does decide to bring something that could harm people, it could be avoided.

And for the record I don't work for SkyWest.

I can't believe we are going to such great lengths of speculation but whatever, I'll play along....

Screw that idea!! If it was either ban SkyWest or all airlines, I say bye bye SkyWest. Why should all other airlines be punished for this guys mistake? Yes, he could have been hired and flying for any regional but at the time of this incident, he was employed with SkyWest. So if it came down to it, which I highly doubt it would, I say throw SkyWest out and leave the rest of us alone.

Do I hate or have a grudge against SkyWest? No, in fact I've met some stand up guys who fly over there and I could care less about the magic underwear that they are required to wear.:D

Firsttimeflyer
04-04-2014, 02:03 PM
No I knew it would p-ss you off. You guys are all going to great lengths to defend a boneheaded move by one of your own but as soon as I floated the idea of letting your pilot group "take one for the team" the response was instant and vicious.


I'm not Skywest, and I consider all airline pilots to be one of my own, yourself included.

The TSA is not going to change KCM over a single incident like this. The most we will see is increased random checks like the CAE screeners did.
The TSA constantly fails to find guns that passengers bring through screening checkpoints as well, nothing is fool proof. Then what about the cheese cutters for guys who love in base and ride the bus in from airside parking and don't go through any security? You think they are going to change the entire system and who knows what kind of expense because one guy screws up? Not happening. The sky isn't falling.

This guy will get investigated, and they will find out exactly what happened. I hope it was an honest mistake and I give him the benefit of the doubt. If it was ill intention then he deserves what's coming to him. But a little understanding goes a long way.

Undrfly
04-04-2014, 02:11 PM
I'm not Skywest, and I consider all airline pilots to be one of my own, yourself included.

The TSA is not going to change KCM over a single incident like this. The most we will see is increased random checks like the CAE screeners did.
The TSA constantly fails to find guns that passengers bring through screening checkpoints as well, nothing is fool proof. Then what about the cheese cutters for guys who love in base and ride the bus in from airside parking and don't go through any security? You think they are going to change the entire system and who knows what kind of expense because one guy screws up? Not happening. The sky isn't falling.

This guy will get investigated, and they will find out exactly what happened. I hope it was an honest mistake and I give him the benefit of the doubt. If it was ill intention then he deserves what's coming to him. But a little understanding goes a long way.

This is the most reasonable response on here. This thread should now close. Lol

Undrfly
04-04-2014, 02:13 PM
I can't believe we are going to such great lengths of speculation but whatever, I'll play along....

Screw that idea!! If it was either ban SkyWest or all airlines, I say bye bye SkyWest. Why should all other airlines be punished for this guys mistake? Yes, he could have been hired and flying for any regional but at the time of this incident, he was employed with SkyWest. So if it came down to it, which I highly doubt it would, I say throw SkyWest out and leave the rest of us alone.

Do I hate or have a grudge against SkyWest? No, in fact I've met some stand up guys who fly over there and I could care less about the magic underwear that they are required to wear.:D

So all US Airways pilots should be banned of FFDO privileges?

exwaterski
04-04-2014, 02:17 PM
I don't have anything against SkyWest either I was just posing a hypothetical to counter everyone bending over backwards and twisting into pretzels to make excuses for the guy. The point is his actions, intentional or not, effect ALL of us. And we better start doing a better job of policing ourselves otherwise the TSA will be glad to step in and do it for us.

Nevets
04-04-2014, 05:11 PM
Quote:





Originally Posted by Nevets


Go back and reread some of the posts above. It's been explained already. The kcm idea and program was lobbied by (mostly) ALPA and other unions. ALPA was the push to have the predecessor, CREWPASS, initiated and also paid for the hardware to run that program. Once the trial system was over, ALPA and the TSA came up with kcm but needed a way to fund it. That is where individual airlines come into play. But if it wasn't for ALPA, there wouldn't be a program for your airline to pay in order for us to bypass security.




I am very aware, I was ALPA when crew pass started, constantly used crew pass and was ecstatic when KCM came to my home airport. My dues paid into the system to get it off the ground. The airline I work out now pays for my access even though I am no longer ALPA.

So does that make me a free loading leech or any of the other great comments my fellow professionals have made here?

What about this guy? I haven't seen his name and don't know his history. Is it possible he could be a furloughed guy from an ALPA carrier or a Comair guy that went to Skywest. Plenty of Comair guys went to other regionals, I know several that went to ASA/XJT.Let's not forget for those of you that are harping on JB, VX, SKW and whoever else are non union/non ALPA. Most of us have at one point or another paid dues to ALPA. I've personally been an ALPA member for 3 previous airlines before joining VX.

Yeah, pretty much. But the good thing is that you can do something about it. Just because VX is non-union, doesn't mean you can't advocate for it.

ALPA didn't just advocate for kcm and then stopped advocating for other things. They've been advocating before and after kcm was successfully lobbied for. Many of which benefit you more at VX than me at a regional.

Hopefully you guys are not too far behind JetBlue and can get a card drive going so you can join us again.

Also remember that alpa has and currently has a policy not to accept new airlines into their union due to lack of funding for a drive. Bow jetblue may be big enough but for the rest of the world in the sub 500 pilot group the will not accept them. Teamsters has about a 200 pilot minumim aswell for them to see profitability.

Which excludes almost no one at this time. I believe SKW, VX, and Allegiant are all carries that ALPA would represent if the interest existed at those places.

mking84
04-04-2014, 05:43 PM
You're right, because an ALPA pilot would never do such a thing... Think before you speak next time.

Pilot arrested at Buffalo airport with loaded gun in bag (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/05/piedmont-pilot-arrested-in-buffalo-with-loaded-gun-in-bag/1#.Uz3htYS9LCQ)

Yes but he didn't go through KCM to conceal it.

Sniper
04-04-2014, 06:27 PM
How is FedEx or UPS not on the list?

Further proof that membership in KCM doesn't necessarily exclude ignorance of KCM.

Seems some Skywest pilots are ignorant of the struggle that unionized pilots go through to achieve benefits that Skywest gets by riding coat tails.

RJSCUM
04-04-2014, 09:16 PM
Further proof that membership in KCM doesn't necessarily exclude ignorance of KCM.

Seems some Skywest pilots are ignorant of the struggle that unionized pilots go through to achieve benefits that Skywest gets by riding coat tails.

Your avatar is quite appropriate for this thread. But seriously, all you ALPA guys who act like you're saving the industry because ALPA lobbied for safety features like TCAS or GPWS need to cool it. Stop giving 100 % credit to ALPA that companies like Honeywell and Boeing played a bigger part in developing.

rcfd13
04-04-2014, 09:19 PM
Seems some Skywest pilots are ignorant of the struggle that unionized pilots go through to achieve benefits that Skywest gets by riding coat tails.

I'm sure the unionized pilots themselves struggled hard lobbying congress for KCM..

Some of you guys have a serious sense of entitlement. It must be hard work having 1.9% deducted from your paycheck then reading on the internet when you receive a new benefit from it.

SKYWCRJCA
04-04-2014, 10:31 PM
Further proof that membership in KCM doesn't necessarily exclude ignorance of KCM.

Seems some Skywest pilots are ignorant of the struggle that unionized pilots go through to achieve benefits that Skywest gets by riding coat tails.

Lol YGTBFSM! Struggle??!! Thats funny! Thx for laugh.

Piedmonster
04-04-2014, 10:55 PM
Seems some Skywest pilots are ignorant of the struggle that unionized pilots go through to achieve benefits that Skywest gets by riding coat tails.

You're a joke. Move along.

Is offline
04-05-2014, 06:30 AM
you guys sound like a bunch of California democrats talking about "assault weapons".

Nevets
04-17-2014, 11:34 AM
Quote:





Originally Posted by Sniper


Further proof that membership in KCM doesn't necessarily exclude ignorance of KCM.

Seems some Skywest pilots are ignorant of the struggle that unionized pilots go through to achieve benefits that Skywest gets by riding coat tails.




Your avatar is quite appropriate for this thread. But seriously, all you ALPA guys who act like you're saving the industry because ALPA lobbied for safety features like TCAS or GPWS need to cool it. Stop giving 100 % credit to ALPA that companies like Honeywell and Boeing played a bigger part in developing.

I'm not trying to give all the credit to ALPA. The companies invent these technologies. The unions help lobby congress in order to mandate these things. We all pay union dues that fund that. Non-union pilots don't do anything. That's the point.

727574drvr
05-13-2014, 12:22 PM
I'm not trying to give all the credit to ALPA. The companies invent these technologies. The unions help lobby congress in order to mandate these things. We all pay union dues that fund that. Non-union pilots don't do anything. That's the point.
Well, if ALPA were doing their JOBS with OUR dues, Captain, you would be making around $165/hour flying the Barbie DreamJet. Just a thought.

Nevets
05-13-2014, 12:42 PM
Quote:





Originally Posted by Nevets


I'm not trying to give all the credit to ALPA. The companies invent these technologies. The unions help lobby congress in order to mandate these things. We all pay union dues that fund that. Non-union pilots don't do anything. That's the point.




Well, if ALPA were doing their JOBS with OUR dues, Captain, you would be making around $165/hour flying the Barbie DreamJet. Just a thought.

I'm sure if it was up to ALPA, it would be more than that. But darn, there seems to be someone negotiating against us on the other side of the table! But hey, it would be more dues money for ALPA, right? Can't have it both ways. Either it's ALPA just wanting more dues money or it's ALPA not doing it's job. O maybe, just maybe, there are other forces at work here? Do you think that is in the realm of possibility?

cencal83406
05-13-2014, 12:49 PM
How is FedEx or UPS not on the list?! You APLA blow hards do fine job of blowing your own ship out of the water!

UPS isn't ALPA.

rcfd13
05-13-2014, 01:24 PM
I'm sure if it was up to ALPA, it would be more than that. But darn, there seems to be someone negotiating against us on the other side of the table! But hey, it would be more dues money for ALPA, right? Can't have it both ways. Either it's ALPA just wanting more dues money or it's ALPA not doing it's job. O maybe, just maybe, there are other forces at work here? Do you think that is in the realm of possibility?

Yeah it does suck when your dues go towards paying the salaries of the people who negotiate for United and Delta against you doesn't it?

Nevets
05-13-2014, 04:13 PM
Quote:





Originally Posted by Nevets


I'm sure if it was up to ALPA, it would be more than that. But darn, there seems to be someone negotiating against us on the other side of the table! But hey, it would be more dues money for ALPA, right? Can't have it both ways. Either it's ALPA just wanting more dues money or it's ALPA not doing it's job. O maybe, just maybe, there are other forces at work here? Do you think that is in the realm of possibility?




Yeah it does suck when your dues go towards paying the salaries of the people who negotiate for United and Delta against you doesn't it?

Completely false and everyone knows it but the alternative is to just let those who negotiate for UAL and DAL do what they want? You are crazy if you think things would be better without a union negotiating for those who they have a fiduciary responsibility for.

FmrFreightDog
05-13-2014, 04:24 PM
Do you check every pocket of every bag you carry before, during and after a trip?
Didn't think so.

No. But I can tell you exactly where each and every one of my firearms, loaded or unloaded, is at all times....without exception. Criminal intent? No. Criminal negligence? Absolutely.

Boomer
05-13-2014, 06:44 PM
Do you check every pocket of every bag you carry before, during and after a trip?
Didn't think so.

I have bags for work. I call them my work bags. They are the same bags every time. I don't just grab whatever bag is handy.

I have bags that I use for shooting. These bags are never my work bags... Ever. I never put firearms, knives, ammunition, tools, or combustibles into my work bags. I never even put those items on top of my work bags. Ever.

Putting a gun in your work bag is like hiding porn in your wife's purse.

If you do that you're dummer than a box of hammers. Good luck with that.

jumppilot71
05-13-2014, 07:06 PM
No. But I can tell you exactly where each and every one of my firearms, loaded or unloaded, is at all times....without exception. Criminal intent? No. Criminal negligence? Absolutely.

No offense, but you have never carried a weapon as a daily part of your life or work. I can tell you I have, for a very long time. People that aren't around firearms, like yourself, the way some people are, think of them as this giant elephant in the room and it's like you're thinking of them 24/7. It's very easy for them to become something like your keys or wallet. Do you treat them as such? No, but we aren't so freaked out by them that we are always thinking about where they are and how they're loaded. Did that blow your mind, I mean not knowing if they're loaded or not? It doesn't matter since every firearms should be treated as if it's loaded anyway. I doubt you even understand what I'm saying. To get to the point, ciminal negligence is more than just a little overboard. I bet you think bullet buttons and nothing larget than a 10 round magazine are good ideas too.

jumppilot71
05-13-2014, 08:02 PM
No offense, but you have never carried a weapon as a daily part of your life or work. I can tell you I have, for a very long time. People that aren't around firearms, like yourself, the way some people are, think of them as this giant elephant in the room and it's like you're thinking of them 24/7. It's very easy for them to become something like your keys or wallet. Do you treat them as such? No, but we aren't so freaked out by them that we are always thinking about where they are and how they're loaded. Did that blow your mind, I mean not knowing if they're loaded or not? It doesn't matter since every firearms should be treated as if it's loaded anyway. I doubt you even understand what I'm saying. To get to the point, ciminal negligence is more than just a little overboard. I bet you think bullet buttons and nothing larget than a 10 round magazine are good ideas too.

That really wasn't meant as harsh as it sounds. I do mean what I said but it really is hard to get across what I'm saying to anyone who's never been in law enforcement or combat arms in the military.

jethikoki
05-14-2014, 02:37 AM
You never responded to my other post. How do you know he even paid attention to it. He may not have checked the bag contents when he got to the hotel.

Scenario:
What if he is just coming back from vacation, he used his bag while taking his family on a driving vacation, he has a concealed carry permit and put the gun in the bag. He might not have taken the gun out of the bag the whole trip, or maybe things went crazy with wife and kids as we all know can easily happen, he forgets he put the gun in the bag. Family is crazy when he gets home, he quickly rushes to get his bag packed or maybe he is on reserve and wasn't expecting the call because of his priority on the call list, or maybe a volunteer assignment came up for extra pay. He quickly grabs his stuff, goes through KCM like any other time, still forgetting he had the gun in the bag.
He gets to the overnight, doesn't think anything about looking in the pocket it was in because he never uses that pocket. He has no need for anything in that pocket. The only time he realizes he has a gun is when he goes through security and they see it. Oh **** moment. It happens to be in canada where they don't see this as often as the US and go crazy with the charges for a simple mistake.

This is just an example of what could have happened. Personally my travel bag never gets used for anything gun related because I wouldn't want a scenario like this to happen on accident. He may not have thought that far ahead. Simple mind slip.

I hope NONE of you guys ever make a mistake and the long arm of the law comes crashing down. Then all of us on here can armchair quarterback what a horrible person you are, a leech, a detriment to the career and hope to see your career and your certificates stripped away like they were nothing. That is the types of things I am seeing you guys write. Pretty sad that you guys seriously stoop this low based on a single media written article without any facts of what led up to the event.

Take a step back and think how many of your friends or colleagues or even yourself made a mistake that could have ended up badly, or you can see how it could have happened once all the facts come out. Think of your ASAP programs and the reports that come out and the mistakes people make. And not one single airline is above this. I can rattle off a list of massive screw ups at every airline that could have ended up in serious accidents because of simple mistakes.
You forgot about this scenario:
Sam Kinison- On Cheating (and revenge) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SJIh2WLOQA)

I could see this happening to some airline pilots!

FmrFreightDog
05-14-2014, 10:31 AM
That really wasn't meant as harsh as it sounds. I do mean what I said but it really is hard to get across what I'm saying to anyone who's never been in law enforcement or combat arms in the military.

You know nothing about my background. I have carried a firearm almost daily in my personal life for years. I have been around firearms my entire life. I'll stand by my original statement. Perhaps I'm more cautious because I have younger children in the house. However, in my opinion, there's no excuse for accidentally carrying a firearm somewhere you aren't supposed to have it.... Ever.