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Arado 234
05-18-2014, 07:48 AM
Rumor mill seems to indicate that we can kiss the US j/s reservation system good-bye. Anyone else hear something better (or worse)?


kingairip
05-18-2014, 07:55 AM
That's potty talk. Don't even say that!

Moonwolf
05-18-2014, 08:05 AM
Rumor mill seems to indicate that we can kiss the US j/s reservation system good-bye. Anyone else hear something better (or worse)?

You mean you can't list at the gate ?

Us airways=easy to j/s
American = like a trip to the dentist to get a j/s


7576FO
05-18-2014, 08:34 AM
I'm AA and i'm in favor of the USAir j/s reservation.

Capt Hindsight
05-18-2014, 08:46 AM
I'm AA and i'm in favor of the USAir j/s reservation.

Just trying to understand the demographics involved. Does AA not have that many commuters, so no pressure being put on APA? What is the argument in opposition? The fact that it's FCFS and not seniority-based?

Please forgive the mild incredulity. We haven't much at US that I felt was superior to other airlines, but our JS system was one of them.

Capt H

EMBFlyer
05-18-2014, 08:47 AM
I'm AA and i'm in favor of the USAir j/s reservation.

Your senior compatriots don't seem to be. The mindset I hear is, "What do I care? I'm senior. I get the seat no matter what." Spread the word, get a grassroots effort going to save it. Don't let our j/s system die. It's nearly zero-stress commuting.

PRS Guitars
05-18-2014, 09:28 AM
None of the AA guys that I've talked to even knew that we could reserve the seat. They are used to doing it their way and seem surprised that we are able to reserve the seat. I explain that it's almost like having a ticket to commute.

The last guy I talked to didn't seem to get it. He said "but someone else can beat you to the reservation". Yes, but you would know that a week out and be able to execute a backup plan, rather than get booted off the flight ten minutes prior to push back and have to flail. After I explained that, it seemed to sink in more.

And the funny thing is, their non rev travel is done in a similar way to our JS!

Doctor
05-18-2014, 11:43 AM
I'm leaving only one option to get on. If I get booted, I'm calling in sick. I won't stress about it if it goes AA's way.

FlugzeugVW
05-18-2014, 12:43 PM
Rumor mill seems to indicate that we can kiss the US j/s reservation system good-bye. Anyone else hear something better (or worse)?

Who are you hearing this from?

Al Czervik
05-18-2014, 01:08 PM
I'm afraid we may lose this based on AA pilots simply not understanding the process. Even the uber senior US guys like it. Don't let this go. This is a mistake boys.

adam28
05-18-2014, 01:13 PM
Well hopefully they at least take the US policy of not getting bumped out of the Jumpseat due to a weight restriction.

CanoePilot
05-18-2014, 02:05 PM
Can we get confirmation before we all lose our lunches? Someone email the js people and ask them.

Al Czervik
05-18-2014, 03:33 PM
Well hopefully they at least take the US policy of not getting bumped out of the Jumpseat due to a weight restriction.

I think we need to keep our eye on the ball. Both are great to have. One is going to matter 95% of the time.

LIOG41
05-18-2014, 03:34 PM
I think you need to keep your eye on the ball. Both are great to have. One is going to matter 95% of the time.

Nailed it.

PurpleTurtle
05-18-2014, 03:49 PM
Ok. Here is how it will go down. The AA system will prevail even though the USAir system is obviously better for employees. The company will soon after allow the pilots to negotiate a better system (the old USAir system) and the pilots will have to give up something in return. That's the Sand Castle way.

Al Czervik
05-18-2014, 03:54 PM
Ok. Here is how it will go down. The AA system will prevail even though the USAir system is obviously better for employees. The company will soon after allow the pilots to negotiate a better system (the old USAir system) and the pilots will have to give up something in return. That's the Sand Castle way.

That is the way things go. I was told by a rep though that the company likes US JS policy. It insures pilots are in position for trips. The current system allows pilots to bank on getting to work. This pays off for both labor and mgt.

PRS Guitars
05-18-2014, 05:46 PM
I'm leaving only one option to get on. If I get booted, I'm calling in sick. I won't stress about it if it goes AA's way.
That's fine for getting to work, but I'm just as concerned (probably more so) about getting home.

PurpleTurtle
05-19-2014, 10:06 AM
That is the way things go. I was told by a rep though that the company likes US JS policy. It insures pilots are in position for trips. The current system allows pilots to bank on getting to work. This pays off for both labor and mgt.

Yes, I have no doubt management thinks the USAir jumpseat reservation system is better for everyone, and that is why we will probably end up with it again, but there is something management loves better... taking advantage of the opportunity to take away something good from pilots and then make them pay to get it back. :cool:

FreighterGuyNow
05-20-2014, 04:31 AM
Bring back pilots getting cabin jumps if vacant.

Arado 234
05-20-2014, 05:56 AM
Bring back pilots getting cabin jumps if vacant.

I don't even know if this is a company or FAA/TSA thing. You do realize that a cabin jump is within the immediate reach of the liquor kit, right? Can't be good! ;)

JKflight
05-20-2014, 08:30 AM
I don't even know if this is a company or FAA/TSA thing. You do realize that a cabin jump is within the immediate reach of the liquor kit, right? Can't be good! ;)

I think this was a FA contract issue, they didn't like idea of getting bumped by a pilot on "their" jumpseat...

HeadInTheTops
05-20-2014, 08:34 AM
I think this was a FA contract issue, they didn't like idea of getting bumped by a pilot on "their" jumpseat...

My current airline allows us to ride the cabin jumpseat, but our priority is below FAs. Unfortunately, it's even below FAs at our "sister" carrier. That part is utter bs. Employees should always have priority on all seats on their own metal, IMHO.

cactiboss
05-20-2014, 11:17 AM
I think this was a FA contract issue, they didn't like idea of getting bumped by a pilot on "their" jumpseat...

That's not how it worked, flight attendants had priority. The east flight attendants decided they would not allow pilots in their jumpseat for no reason whatsoever. Scum seems to run east of Mississippi.

crzipilot
05-20-2014, 02:07 PM
Wow, now the East F/A's are scum too?

cactiboss
05-22-2014, 12:53 PM
Wow, now the East F/A's are scum too?

For what reason did they insist pilots not be allowed to occupy the FA jumpseat when available? Yeah, they have the same mentality as the rest of you east scum.

flybywire44
05-22-2014, 02:14 PM
That's not how it worked, flight attendants had priority. The east flight attendants decided they would not allow pilots in their jumpseat for no reason whatsoever. Scum seems to run east of Mississippi.

This may change.

USAPA and APA believe that the FAA disallowing FA's from ridding cockpit jumpseats should have nothing to do with pilots being disallowed to ride cabin jumpseats.

However, if this changed than mainline newAA pilots would have lower priority to all mainline newAA flight attendants.

I always hate seeing any seta go empty.

Arado 234
05-22-2014, 05:51 PM
For what reason did they insist pilots not be allowed to occupy the FA jumpseat when available? Yeah, they have the same mentality as the rest of you east scum.

Seriously, get some help bro. Your dark side clouds everything.

R57 relay
05-22-2014, 06:09 PM
Seriously, get some help bro. Your dark side clouds everything.

He's a lost cause.

cactiboss
05-22-2014, 08:26 PM
Seriously, get some help bro. Your dark side clouds everything.

Whatever usapian.

cactiboss
05-22-2014, 08:27 PM
He's a lost cause.

Lost cause? Don't make me laugh, your the scumbags of the industry and I'm a lost cause?

full of luv
05-22-2014, 09:17 PM
I don't even know if this is a company or FAA/TSA thing. You do realize that a cabin jump is within the immediate reach of the liquor kit, right? Can't be good! ;)

Not a TSA thing.... happens every day at Delta.

Arado 234
05-23-2014, 02:08 AM
Whatever usapian.

Sorry bro, your pet argument doesn't work here.

Hueypilot
05-23-2014, 05:33 AM
Lost cause? Don't make me laugh, your the scumbags of the industry and I'm a lost cause?

..."you're"...

R57 relay
05-23-2014, 06:10 AM
Lost cause? Don't make me laugh, your the scumbags of the industry and I'm a lost cause?

Cacti, you are just angry and it clouds everything you do. If you stopped to really think for a while you would realize that Allegheny, Piedmont, US Air, US Airways, Eastern, PSA and Empire couldn't have all hired bad people.

You picked a course of action, it failed and you don't want to accept responsibility.

The funny thing is that is see lots of people just like you over here. They are some of the most diehard DOH/USAPA guys! If you were hired at US in 1988 you'd be right in there with them!

cactiboss
05-23-2014, 04:49 PM
Sorry bro, your pet argument doesn't work here.

Whatever you say usapian

cactiboss
05-23-2014, 04:51 PM
You picked a course of action, it failed and you don't want to accept responsibility.



As I sit reserve 757 captain with '98 hire date. You should be ashamed of yourself and your pilot group, scumbags.

algflyr
05-23-2014, 05:53 PM
As I sit reserve 757 captain with '98 hire date.

Thank God for no bump - no flush huh?

You got on the 757 when it paid the same as the Airbus. Now with almost a $15/hr difference. I'm sure some Captains senior to you would like to bid into the 757 off the Airbus. And those Airbus FO's that are senior to you I'm sure are thinking about the upgrade too, if that ever becomes available to them. There is over a $70/hr difference from AB FO to 757 Capt... Hopefully you will keep the seat, but probably won't move up as senior pilots bid in above you when slots open...

Arado 234
05-23-2014, 06:11 PM
Whatever you say usapian

Ignorance is strength!

Irishish
05-23-2014, 06:55 PM
Is anyone familiar with the Delta JS reservation system? I've heard that it is similar to the USAir system, but allows commuters going to work to list a day or two before commuters going home, and leisure travelers have access to reservations after commuters. I think this is even better.

Justdoinmyjob
05-23-2014, 07:13 PM
Is anyone familiar with the Delta JS reservation system? I've heard that it is similar to the USAir system, but allows commuters going to work to list a day or two before commuters going home, and leisure travelers have access to reservations after commuters. I think this is even better.

Going to work can list 7 days prior. Going from work can list 5 days prior. Traveling for pleasure, (yeah, right!) is 3 days prior. Also, you cannot jumpseat list and nonrev meal list for the same flight. You can also list for the cabin jumpseat, but only at the gate prior to departure, and any FA can bump you off up until 10 minutes (not 100% sure of time) prior to departure.

fosters
05-23-2014, 07:17 PM
I don't see the need to change the commute from work to home like Delta. Everyone commuting into the hub is going to work, everyone going out of the hub is commuting home (in general). The system fixes itself. IMO that is just making it overly complicated. The ability to ride the cabin jumpseats if available just makes sense, I know the F/A's are touchy because they can't ride up front but I have often taken the cockpit over sitting in back to get an F/A or other non-rev on.

Justdoinmyjob
05-23-2014, 07:31 PM
I don't see the need to change the commute from work to home like Delta. Everyone commuting into the hub is going to work, everyone going out of the hub is commuting home (in general). The system fixes itself. IMO that is just making it overly complicated.

You'd be suprised. We have a lot of guys living in, or near one base, but commuting to another base for a variety of reasons.

cactiboss
05-23-2014, 08:27 PM
Thank God for no bump - no flush huh?

You got on the 757 when it paid the same as the Airbus. Now with almost a $15/hr difference. I'm sure some Captains senior to you would like to bid into the 757 off the Airbus. And those Airbus FO's that are senior to you I'm sure are thinking about the upgrade too, if that ever becomes available to them. There is over a $70/hr difference from AB FO to 757 Capt... Hopefully you will keep the seat, but probably won't move up as senior pilots bid in above you when slots open...
Not quite encrustration, under the Nic I easily hold 75/6 cap
east or west.

cactiboss
05-23-2014, 08:30 PM
Ignorance is strength!

Whatever you say encrustation.

R57 relay
05-24-2014, 03:45 AM
Not quite encrustration, under the Nic I easily hold 75/6 cap
east or west.

The Nic is not "currently in effect". You got your 75 captain bid because of the west contract reinstatement rights. Absent that you would likely still be a F/O, maybe a A320 captain.

Funny that when the west guys were running for office they were against reinstatement rights, as that would have been "Nicolau mitigation."

Smoke Toliet
05-24-2014, 05:03 AM
The FA j/s would be nice but I really don't think it will ever happen…especially based on what I've heard about the AA girls. The US pilot j/s is the best….easy , no brainer way to get to work. A seniority system just allows you to get bumped at the gate 15mins before your commute. Standing there with you @$^# in your hand.

JumpersAway79
05-24-2014, 05:22 AM
The FA j/s would be nice but I really don't think it will ever happen…especially based on what I've heard about the AA girls. The US pilot j/s is the best….easy , no brainer way to get to work. A seniority system just allows you to get bumped at the gate 15mins before your commute. Standing there with you @$^# in your hand.

Most important, it allows you to get bumped when you are trying to get home! I know quite a few of the folks here on the AA side of things simply commuter clause it or sick call it, if they can't get to work. However, nothing you can do when you are trying to get home. It's simple- the USAirways J/S policy is completely no stress............for ANYONE!

meyers9163
05-24-2014, 05:28 AM
I never really thought I had a dog in this fight but yesterday I used the JS number to list for a flight to my in-laws. As I finished my trip I had a dhd from Boston to Philadelphia and witnessed a FA with 20+ years sit and have TWO flights where a more senior FA showed up less then 30 prior and she got hosed twice!!! As I saw this I told my CA how I never thought much as my normal commute is all RJs but how VERY nice it was to tell my in-laws I would definitely be at there place by 5:30pm..... Taking the maybe out of the equation. Hopefully AA comes to understand this is a no brainer.... Lets ADOPT the best policy not what has ALWAYS been just because it's always been that way....

Al Czervik
05-24-2014, 07:33 AM
I never really thought I had a dog in this fight but yesterday I used the JS number to list for a flight to my in-laws. As I finished my trip I had a dhd from Boston to Philadelphia and witnessed a FA with 20+ years sit and have TWO flights where a more senior FA showed up less then 30 prior and she got hosed twice!!! As I saw this I told my CA how I never thought much as my normal commute is all RJs but how VERY nice it was to tell my in-laws I would definitely be at there place by 5:30pm..... Taking the maybe out of the equation. Hopefully AA comes to understand this is a no brainer.... Lets ADOPT the best policy not what has ALWAYS been just because it's always been that way....

Hate to say it... Think this is falling on deaf ears. We are about to lose something great. Senior AA guys are foolish not to want this. There is always someone senior to you.

EMBFlyer
05-24-2014, 07:45 AM
Hate to say it... Think this is falling on deaf ears. We are about to lose something great. Senior AA guys are foolish not to want this. There is always someone senior to you.

That's my fear, too. I think this is a mixture of "I don't care, I'm senior" and "I don't know how it works, so I don't want change what I know."

crzipilot
05-24-2014, 12:00 PM
How 'bout working the angle that "delta" does it. Don't you want to be like or better than delta??!?!?! HA

The Drizzle
05-24-2014, 12:03 PM
How 'bout working the angle that "delta" does it. Don't you want to be like or better than delta??!?!?! HA

So long as the company provides the polish for us to polish our brass buttons in cruise!

Thedude
05-24-2014, 12:46 PM
That's my fear, too. I think this is a mixture of "I don't care, I'm senior" and "I don't know how it works, so I don't want change what I know."

And a huge helping of "that is the way we have always done it".

To put it bluntly, AA has some f'eduped procedures.

Winterking
05-25-2014, 10:42 AM
Anyone know the current policy for jumpseating on a US Air flight when you work for a different company? I will be trying get from EWR to MYR next week to join my family for vacation. I jumpseated prior to the merger with no problem. Has anything changed? Do I still just list at the gate?

The Drizzle
05-25-2014, 11:04 AM
Anyone know the current policy for jumpseating on a US Air flight when you work for a different company? I will be trying get from EWR to MYR next week to join my family for vacation. I jumpseated prior to the merger with no problem. Has anything changed? Do I still just list at the gate?

So long as it's a US Airways flight, you'll be able to walk up, fill out a form, and have the agent list you. Nice and easy as always.

Well, for now at least.

Winterking
05-25-2014, 11:54 AM
So long as it's a US Airways flight, you'll be able to walk up, fill out a form, and have the agent list you. Nice and easy as always.

Well, for now at least.

Thanks Drizzle, I appreciate the info.

Al Czervik
02-08-2015, 02:43 PM
Word is APA has seen the light and likes the Airways system. Email your reps. Let's keep the Airways system. AA guys...
Talk to airways guys/gals. This is a great system. Email your reps!!

jcountry
02-08-2015, 03:58 PM
Word is APA has seen the light and likes the Airways system. Email your reps. Let's keep the Airways system. AA guys...
Talk to airways guys/gals. This is a great system. Email your reps!!


Agreed!

100%

Best system of any airline I know of!!

Capt Hindsight
02-08-2015, 05:37 PM
Agreed. Need additional proof? Even the West guys almost unanimously endorse Jumpseat IVR, created by US East. That's gotta count for something! ;)

Capt H

Sink r8
02-08-2015, 06:23 PM
Going to work can list 7 days prior. Going from work can list 5 days prior. Traveling for pleasure, (yeah, right!) is 3 days prior. Also, you cannot jumpseat list and nonrev meal list for the same flight. You can also list for the cabin jumpseat, but only at the gate prior to departure, and any FA can bump you off up until 10 minutes (not 100% sure of time) prior to departure.

I thought it was 4/3/2 days, but I might have missed the update. It's a great system. I just had a UAL JS. Theirs is seniority-based. You can get bumped until the last minute. Sounds stressful.

I never hear whining about our system in terms of priority, from senior OR junior pilots.

Bringupthebird
02-08-2015, 06:28 PM
That's my fear, too. I think this is a mixture of "I don't care, I'm senior" and "I don't know how it works, so I don't want change what I know."
So says the east folks who couldn't wrap their heads around PBS.

EMBFlyer
02-08-2015, 07:26 PM
So says the east folks who couldn't wrap their heads around PBS.

Wow. Almost a year-old post and you dig it up to turn it into an East/West thing. Dude, get help. Seriously.

PRS Guitars
02-28-2015, 07:34 AM
Any word on which system we're going with? I keep hearing that we're sticking with LUS, but was wondering what the source of that rumor is?

dynap09
02-28-2015, 09:16 AM
I have to agree - East invented, West likes. Given the total dislike between these two groups that really says how much less stressful it will be. I do hope they pin in down before SLI though.

I could see post SLI if east get's the DOH approach they are demanding they could prefer seniority based approach just to have the pleasure of bumping west pilots off. That could get messy. So pin down now with current system to avoid the later fighting...

texaspilot76
02-28-2015, 10:58 AM
I have to agree - East invented, West likes. Given the total dislike between these two groups that really says how much less stressful it will be. I do hope they pin in down before SLI though.

I could see post SLI if east get's the DOH approach they are demanding they could prefer seniority based approach just to have the pleasure of bumping west pilots off. That could get messy. So pin down now with current system to avoid the later fighting...

If the seniority integration goes anything close to DOH, the LAA pilots are gonna sure wish they had the listing system.

flygirl556
02-28-2015, 09:16 PM
If the seniority integration goes anything close to DOH, the LAA pilots are gonna sure wish they had the listing system.

^^^^^this! At US Airways, 25 years is still considered junior.

Al Czervik
03-02-2015, 05:31 AM
Check the APA DFW update. Flight Ops is in support of the LUS way.

Make sure to send a sound off on the APA website in support of the LUS Reservation System.

PRS Guitars
03-03-2015, 07:27 AM
Check the APA DFW update. Flight Ops is in support of the LUS way.

Make sure to send a sound off on the APA website in support of the LUS Reservation System.


Yes, send sound offs, Especially if you are LAA and in favor of a reservation system.

The DFW update says they've recieved 250 DFW sound offs in favor of a seniority system and so he (DFW rep) is going into discussions favoring that side.

I read through some C&R threads on the subject today. What a Charlie Foxtrot! There are some ****ed off guys on there, wanting the LAA system. One guy (a non commuter) even said if a reservation system is implemented, he'll deny the JS to everyone. Lots of great advice like "move to base like I did", wow thanks for that insight. I need to stay off C&R, I literally never leave that site feeling good about working here.

blastoff
03-03-2015, 07:53 AM
One guy (a non commuter) even said if a reservation system is implemented, he'll deny the JS to everyone.

Do not pass go, do not go to the union or CPO, no Pro Stans...straight to HR with these clowns ("hostile work environment"). Behavior will change when their careers are (rightfully) in jeopardy.

drinksonme
03-03-2015, 09:16 AM
Do not pass go, do not go to the union or CPO, no Pro Stans...straight to HR with these clowns ("hostile work environment"). Behavior will change when their careers are (rightfully) in jeopardy.

I always advocate Pro Stans, but in a case like this I agree. The person in question seems to think he's above being part of a group, and being a CA make him special and gives him certain rights to apply policy. If this type of situation were to occur, the CP office would be involved regardless. As the commuting pilot probably will need to use commuter policy and will need to contact them for that reason. They will want to know why they missed a flight....boom now they are involved.

drinksonme
03-03-2015, 09:17 AM
Do not pass go, do not go to the union or CPO, no Pro Stans...straight to HR with these clowns ("hostile work environment"). Behavior will change when their careers are (rightfully) in jeopardy.

I always advocate Pro Stans, but in a case like this I agree. The person in question seems to think he's above being part of a group, and being a CA makes him special and gives him certain rights to apply policy. If this type of situation were to occur, the CP office would be involved regardless. As the commuting pilot probably will need to use commuter policy and will need to contact them for that reason. They will want to know why they missed a flight....boom now they are involved.

"Surround yourself with the best people you can find, delegate authority, and don't interfere as long as the policy you've decided upon is being carried out."
-Ronald Reagan




I hope for the sake of all of us, we can get this thing done without too much bad blood remaining.

SilverandSore
03-03-2015, 09:17 AM
Do not pass go, do not go to the union or CPO, no Pro Stans...straight to HR with these clowns ("hostile work environment"). Behavior will change when their careers are (rightfully) in jeopardy.

That's an easy fix, just say "Captain, do I smell alcohol on your breath?"

blastoff
03-03-2015, 09:27 AM
That's an easy fix, just say "Captain, do I smell alcohol on your breath?"

I think their own hostility against their co-workers in 2015 corporate America is more than enough, no need to 'create' another issue.

I hope for the sake of all of us, we can get this thing done without too much bad blood remaining.

Agreed. All 3 groups have their "special few." Even if it does get contentious, it will hopefully subside with attrition (retirements). Movement cures pretty much everything.

Frisco727
03-03-2015, 09:45 AM
That's an easy fix, just say "Captain, do I smell alcohol on your breath?"

Is that how you Detroit losers get the jumpseat? False accusations?

Captain's discretion, even if the reservation system is adopted.

blastoff
03-03-2015, 10:03 AM
Is that how you Detroit losers get the jumpseat? False accusations?

Captain's discretion, even if the reservation system is adopted.

I agree with your premise...however, CA's that plan to enforce the Jumpseat in childish ways should be prepared for some childish responses...which I don't advocate but some will. These "command" decisions do not occur in a vacuum.

Frisco727
03-03-2015, 10:23 AM
I agree with your premise...however, CA's that plan to enforce the Jumpseat in childish ways should be prepared for some childish responses...which I don't advocate but some will. These "command" decisions do not occur in a vacuum.

If he would have walked in and said that to me, fine, he's not going to get the seat because I'd get off the aircraft volunteer for a test and since I don't drink would pass the test. Then, I'd deal with the false accusations to get this person to explain his actions and some command decisions may be made resulting in termination.

Bottom line, I will not tolerate such childish comments.

TrakTrak
03-03-2015, 10:42 AM
FWIW, I over heard the DFW rep say that the pilot who do not want the US JS system may lose that battle. The guy he was talking to was all about the earned seniority. However, we may get that system. I don't commute so either way doesn't bother me, but I do like the US way of JS'n.

Al Czervik
03-03-2015, 10:51 AM
Captain's discretion, even if the reservation system is adopted.

I would worry that disregarding policy/procedure for the Jumpseat may result in termination.

blastoff
03-03-2015, 10:54 AM
If he would have walked in and said that to me, fine, he's not going to get the seat because I'd get off the aircraft volunteer for a test and since I don't drink would pass the test. Then, I'd deal with the false accusations to get this person to explain his actions and some command decisions may be made resulting in termination.


Agreed, I'd absolutely deal with it the same way. Hopefully it never comes to that, as we all know there's plenty of hot air on C&R and here on APC.

PurpleTurtle
03-03-2015, 11:07 AM
The company will dictate the JS system, and the APA will have absolutely zero impact on what the company does. Zero. Some pilots will beach. Some will be happy. Some won't give a sheet. A few might rebel and get spanked. Many will talk tough. All to no avail. It will be what it will be.

Nothing to see here. Move along. :D

Sliceback
03-03-2015, 11:53 AM
I would worry that disregarding policy/procedure for the Jumpseat may result in termination.

And the policy is that the Captain controls the jumpseat. Not to be used as a weapon but ultimately it's under his authority. But there are limits to everyone's authority and decisions can be reviewed after the fact.

But going to HR about the jumpseat? And accusing the other guy of creating a hostile workplace? Don't modern houses come with mirrors anymore?

blastoff
03-03-2015, 12:02 PM
But going to HR about the jumpseat? And accusing the other guy of creating a hostile workplace? Don't modern houses come with mirrors anymore?

We already do the same when dealing with Gate Agents that bypass policy. It is hostile. Bypassing company policy because you don't like it and taking it out on other employees...Police yourselves or be policed. No reason to tolerate it any longer. It should be elevated in the case of blanket (deny all) abusers.

inline five
03-03-2015, 01:03 PM
If the majority of peoples opinions on C&R and here were valid, the JCBA would've been a "NO" by a 95% margin.

Ignore the loud mouths on there. Use it to post questions and obtain info only. There are a lot of crazy guys out there.

PRS Guitars
03-03-2015, 09:43 PM
If the majority of peoples opinions on C&R and here were valid, the JCBA would've been a "NO" by a 95% margin.

Ignore the loud mouths on there. Use it to post questions and obtain info only. There are a lot of crazy guys out there.
You are spot on. I thought about that after I posted.

Frisco727
03-04-2015, 06:05 AM
I would worry that disregarding policy/procedure for the Jumpseat may result in termination.

I would not worry about it at all.

Captain authority.

If such an accusation was made by anyone I would use that authority to set the parking brake and get tested. I'll bet that the termination would be directed to the false accuser.

PurpleTurtle
03-04-2015, 06:29 AM
I would worry that disregarding policy/procedure for the Jumpseat may result in termination.

The captain has authority over the jump seat.... And the Chief Pilot has authority over the Captain.

Some folks talk tough about "their" jumpseat but the Chief Pilots won't stand for the flight schedule getting F-ed up due to commuters being denied a ride to work. There will be a couple "brave captains" step up and volunteer to be examples. Most piolts are not idots, but the few that are will learn quickly. :D

Frisco727
03-04-2015, 07:16 AM
The captain has authority over the jump seat.... And the Chief Pilot has authority over the Captain.

Some folks talk tough about "their" jumpseat but the Chief Pilots won't stand for the flight schedule getting F-ed up due to commuters being denied a ride to work. There will be a couple "brave captains" step up and volunteer to be examples. Most piolts are not idots, but the few that are will learn quickly. :D

Captain's call.

Purple turds get left at the gate too.

Al Czervik
03-04-2015, 07:45 AM
I would not worry about it at all.

Captain authority.

If such an accusation was made by anyone I would use that authority to set the parking brake and get tested. I'll bet that the termination would be directed to the false accuser.

I never said anything about the false accusation. I was simply stating you'd be disregarding company policy.

False accusations/deliberate disregard for company policy are in same boat though.

JKflight
03-04-2015, 07:58 AM
Captain's call. Purple turds get left at the gate too.

We went through this in the beginning of the East/West fighting, didn't last long when "the Captain" had to start explaining the reason for denying another company employee access to jumpseat.

Frisco727
03-04-2015, 08:06 AM
Look it up.

The captain has final decision authority concerning pilot jumpseat occupants.

EMBFlyer
03-04-2015, 08:14 AM
The captain has authority over the jump seat.... And the Chief Pilot has authority over the Captain.

Some folks talk tough about "their" jumpseat but the Chief Pilots won't stand for the flight schedule getting F-ed up due to commuters being denied a ride to work. There will be a couple "brave captains" step up and volunteer to be examples. Most piolts are not idots, but the few that are will learn quickly. :D

Look it up.

The captain has final decision authority concerning pilot jumpseat occupants.

Yes and The CAAptain's boss, Senior VP of Flight has been quoted as saying the jumpseat will NOT be used as a weapon. He said he will not tolerate it.

Frisco727
03-04-2015, 09:16 AM
Yes and The CAAptain's boss, Senior VP of Flight has been quoted as saying the jumpseat will NOT be used as a weapon. He said he will not tolerate it.
Who said it was being used as a weapon? I'm speaking of Capt authority.

Was it used as a weapon in the Am West/US Airways merger?

Saabs
03-04-2015, 10:12 AM
Who said it was being used as a weapon? I'm speaking of Capt authority.

Was it used as a weapon in the Am West/US Airways merger?

If it happens no biggie. Call the chief pilots office and fill out a PE39 as I won't be not paid for a trip I should have made. It will get sorted out fairly quickly and I'm sure the captain who denied it won't ever do it again.

Frisco727
03-04-2015, 10:53 AM
If it happens no biggie. Call the chief pilots office and fill out a PE39 as I won't be not paid for a trip I should have made. It will get sorted out fairly quickly and I'm sure the captain who denied it won't ever do it again.

If you did not make the trip, maybe you should have planned better. There is no guarantee you are going go be on the jumpseat. Maybe a check airman needs to do a line check.

Once again, Captain discretion, if denies the jumpseat, he has the authority do it again and again if necessary.

Al Czervik
03-04-2015, 11:15 AM
Once again, Captain discretion, if denies the jumpseat, he has the authority do it again and again if necessary.

Paradigm Paralysis runs deep. Relax Frisco. You'll love Airways system.

Saabs
03-04-2015, 11:21 AM
If you did not make the trip, maybe you should have planned better. There is no guarantee you are going go be on the jumpseat. Maybe a check airman needs to do a line check.

Once again, Captain discretion, if denies the jumpseat, he has the authority do it again and again if necessary.

Very true. However, I will be submitting a pay claim and calling the chief pilots office to try to get reimbursed. And I'm quite positive thay captain won't be denying anyone that reserved the jumpseat again.

Frisco727
03-04-2015, 11:45 AM
Paradigm Paralysis runs deep. Relax Frisco. You'll love Airways system.

American Airlines, AA procedures.
Ask Bob Skinner Bob Skinner how it worked for him.:rolleyes:

The Drizzle
03-04-2015, 11:47 AM
American Airlines, AA procedures.
Ask Bob Skinner Bob Skinner how it worked for him.:rolleyes:

Yes, and now we all get to suffer with your antiquated(at best) wAAy of operating "the Jet."

Al Czervik
03-04-2015, 12:43 PM
American Airlines, AA procedures.
Ask Bob Skinner Bob Skinner how it worked for him.:rolleyes:

You're right. American mgt said they want our system. Thus, AA procedures. Don't shoot the messenger.

I hope above all else an enviornment of respect and having a good time at work survives from our side. I like the guys/gals I fly with and the people we work around.

Be careful Frisco. You might just enjoy yourself.

Saabs
03-04-2015, 01:12 PM
You're right. American mgt said they want our system. Thus, AA procedures. Don't shoot the messenger.

I hope above all else an enviornment of respect and having a good time at work survives from our side. I like the guys/gals I fly with and the people we work around.

Be careful Frisco. You might just enjoy yourself.

I don't commute so it doesn't bug me that much either way, but senior guys here seem to love it as u know. But with a name like Frisco I doubt that guy commutes either.

Frisco727
03-04-2015, 01:19 PM
Yes, and now we all get to suffer with your antiquated(at best) wAAy of operating "the Jet."

Do you think our 777 procedures are antiquated? Do you think AA will adopt US Air's proceedures for operating "the jet"?

You're right. American mgt said they want our system. Thus, AA procedures. Don't shoot the messenger.

I hope above all else an enviornment of respect and having a good time at work survives from our side. I like the guys/gals I fly with and the people we work around.

Be careful Frisco. You might just enjoy yourself.

From what I have read on the boards, it doesn't appear to be a good time between East and West. Should AA adopt the environment brought to the property by US Airways?

PurpleTurtle
03-04-2015, 01:28 PM
Look it up.

The captain has final decision authority concerning pilot jumpseat occupants.

No captain worth his salt confuses "final decision authority" with the notion he has "immunity from any review" of his exercise of his authority.

Every captain has "final authority" about closing the door and pushing back... but if a captain causes a delay on his own plane (by refusing to shut the door for an unjustified reason) or causes a delay on another plane (by denying a commuter a ride to work)... either way such "final captain authority" will be reviewed by those who's bonuses rely on an on-time operation.

I've never been denied a jump seat I requested, but if it ever happens I will be happy to call the chief pilot from a nice restaurant while I'm enjoying a medium rare steak.... For a space positive seat on my backup flight, I can eat fast. :D

EMBFlyer
03-04-2015, 01:56 PM
Do you think our 777 procedures are antiquated? Do you think AA will adopt US Air's proceedures for operating "the jet"?

Your 757/767 procedures are!

And guess what, Almighty, Most Senior of CAAptains, you already have. Your Airbuses (Airbii) use USAir procedures.

Al Czervik
03-04-2015, 02:09 PM
Should AA adopt the environment brought to the property by US Airways?

we should take the best from both sides.

Saabs
03-04-2015, 02:51 PM
This Kat belongs on C and R!

EMBFlyer
03-04-2015, 03:02 PM
This Kat belongs on C and R!

I'd be willing to bet he's already there.

Frisco727
03-04-2015, 03:12 PM
we should take the best from both sides.

You seem more reasonable than the RJ's, Saabs, Lions and Turtles on this forum.:rolleyes:

Al Czervik
03-04-2015, 03:44 PM
You seem more reasonable than the RJ's, Saabs, Lions and Turtles on this forum.:rolleyes:

They're great guys. American brings a ton to the table. I know a lot of your guys are looking forward to getting to our bases and not commuting anymore. Most, if not all of US are excited at the possibilities of going at this together.

Maybe we can agree to dislike the new uniform?

Cheers.

Saabs
03-04-2015, 04:06 PM
To be fair Frisco I didn't say anything about the jumpseat policy good or bad. I'll abide but whatever they choose.

I also haven't said anything bad about any AA procedure. I could care less how we do it.

I just won't accept a loss in pay for a guy who is on a mission to screw a Co worker over. I will call everyone possible to get a resolution and file a pay claim. I don't even commute, but if they shut down CLT I might be forced to.

Hueypilot
03-04-2015, 09:58 PM
If you did not make the trip, maybe you should have planned better. There is no guarantee you are going go be on the jumpseat. Maybe a check airman needs to do a line check.

Once again, Captain discretion, if denies the jumpseat, he has the authority do it again and again if necessary.

So this whole "denying the jumpseat" issue was brought up based on some comments on C&R about denying anyone who made a reservation using a potential IVR system.

If you denied the jumpseat to another fellow employee who had reserved the jumpseat and followed proper protocol (if such an IVR system were instituted at the combined AA), what would be your justification for denying that person the seat?

Isn't that essentially "using it as a weapon" because you don't like the fact they reserved the seat vice using their seniority? I don't follow why people feel the need to be arseholes just to be one.

Hueypilot
03-04-2015, 10:00 PM
Do you think our 777 procedures are antiquated? Do you think AA will adopt US Air's proceedures for operating "the jet"?

That's a dumb question. On the flip side, do you think US Airways will adopt AA's A330 procedures? No? You guys don't have those jets? Exactly.

As it's been pointed out, AA is adopting the US Airways procedures for Airbus ops, and keeping LAA procedures for Boeing aircraft. What's your point? You seem to think that anything and everything we do must originate from the AA side of the house.

aa73
03-05-2015, 04:29 AM
Your 757/767 procedures are!

And guess what, Almighty, Most Senior of CAAptains, you already have. Your Airbuses (Airbii) use USAir procedures.

Just curious, what is rare about our 757/767 procedures? Honest question. When I left the fleet we were doing everything the Boeing way.

Justdoinmyjob
03-05-2015, 04:52 AM
You seem to think that anything and everything we do must originate from the AA side of the house.

HP,
Don't sweat it. We had the same thing during the DL/NWA merger. There was the usual 1%ers who felt that their old way was the only way. We ended up doing "best practices," although initially it turned out 25% NWA, 75% DL procedures. Plus some totally new ones, neither side ever did. Since then, we have been slowly changing some things to the old NWA ways.

EMBFlyer
03-05-2015, 06:56 AM
Just curious, what is rare about our 757/767 procedures? Honest question. When I left the fleet we were doing everything the Boeing way.

No offense to you intended. It may be the Boeing way (in fact, I'm pretty sure it is). Our procedures were just simplified. It's been an adjustment to the checklist philosophy that we've had to adopt. Part of it may be due to the fact we don't have a mechanical checklist installed. The USAir QRH was more advanced and more helpful. The Boeing QRH doesn't direct you to many places. You have to figure out where you need to go when you finish one. The USAir QRH directed you to the next step (although, I guess we're paid to be pilots after all). One big thing was the way our manuals were laid out. I'm finding it very hard to find information I need in the AA manuals. The USAir manuals were very logical in how they were laid out and everything was pretty much at your fingertips (and not in 3-4 separate places).

I guess I got spoiled by simplified procedures on the Airbus.

Frisco727
03-05-2015, 06:57 AM
That's a dumb question. On the flip side, do you think US Airways will adopt AA's A330 procedures? No? You guys don't have those jets? Exactly.

As it's been pointed out, AA is adopting the US Airways procedures for Airbus ops, and keeping LAA procedures for Boeing aircraft. What's your point? You seem to think that anything and everything we do must originate from the AA side of the house.

Dumb question?
It's called sarcasm.

As far as procedures are concerned, I hear a lot of complaining about AA procedures. I understand that the AM West procedures were changed because LUS was the larger company. Maybe it's your turn to adopt the procedures of the larger company....

Frisco727
03-05-2015, 07:04 AM
They're great guys. American brings a ton to the table. I know a lot of your guys are looking forward to getting to our bases and not commuting anymore. Most, if not all of US are excited at the possibilities of going at this together.

Maybe we can agree to dislike the new uniform?

Cheers.

Those commuters are welcome, as long as they don't pull that, "alcohol on your breath" stunt as suggested earlier.

Yes, we agree on the uniform. :eek:

A big thumbs down from me as well.

Cheers

Sweatsock
03-05-2015, 07:19 AM
Dumb question?
It's called sarcasm.

As far as procedures are concerned, I hear a lot of complaining about AA procedures. I understand that the AM West procedures were changed because LUS was the larger company. Maybe it's your turn to adopt the procedures of the larger company....

Can't speak about the Boeing stuff, but as far as the bus the new procedures we are getting make little sense.

For 17 years the bus did automatic inrange report, now they cant, We have to do position reports once an hour domestically, but the bus already sends aircraft status in real time to ops, they can even see which autopilot is currently active and what the engines are doing etc.

The new performance stuff now requires that you look to 3 different places to load t/o performance (TPS, gate download, and final close out) Used to be all on one printout sent during taxi for 2 active runways and 2 flap settings.

Seems like they just gave the bus a lobotomy for no other reason that to be doing it the AAmerican way.

Oh well, just send the check to the correct bank account! :)

EMBFlyer
03-05-2015, 07:33 AM
Maybe it's your turn to adopt the procedures of the larger company....

That's the wAAy we've AAlways done it!

Hueypilot
03-05-2015, 08:40 AM
Maybe it's your turn to adopt the procedures of the larger company....

As pointed out, many of the "procedures of the larger company" make no sense.

Our new ACARS formAAt is maddening. I've never had more button pushes in my life just to do simple things. We had a pretty streamlined way of doing things that worked very well. Now it's unnecessarily complicated...I guess simply because you guys are "larger". I'll end this with the fact that larger does not always equal "better".

Frisco727
03-05-2015, 09:19 AM
As pointed out, many of the "procedures of the larger company" make no sense.

Our new ACARS formAAt is maddening. I've never had more button pushes in my life just to do simple things. We had a pretty streamlined way of doing things that worked very well. Now it's unnecessarily complicated...I guess simply because you guys are "larger". I'll end this with the fact that larger does not always equal "better".

It makes sense for AA to adopt the Airbus procedUreS, LUS has the larger fleet. I don't expect John Hope, who was LUS to adopt AA's procedUreS. So, the AAirbus pilots may find some of the LUS procedUreS frustrating.

The AACARS format is not that complicated it's just a matter of learning the new system.

Hueypilot
03-05-2015, 09:52 AM
The AACARS format is not that complicated it's just a matter of learning the new system.

It's not rocket science. But it is quite a bit less efficient of a system than the LUS system.

In the past, I would just type in the text into the scratch pad, enter it into the free text line and hit send. Now I have to press "edit", enter in the text, then press "enter" then press "send". At least 3-4 extra button pushes and a couple extra pages that wasn't necessary before.

Ditto with the "changeover report". It wants my landing weight and I have to hit "send" now, when it the past, for most of our aircraft it was automated and we got our gate info around 8,000'.

I could go on...you don't even want to know how much more complicated the final W/B and TPS is now with the new procedures compared to our old procedures, but I'll just stop there.

I can figure out the AA system just fine, I just think it's unnecessarily more complicated and not anywhere near as organized as the LUS system.

Saabs
03-05-2015, 11:10 AM
I'm sure stuff will change to whoever had the best procedures after SOC. Who cares where they came from as long as they are the best procedures. This RC9 stuff is a step backwards in terms of acars for sure. It has way less features and capabilities.

PRS Guitars
03-05-2015, 11:18 AM
Give us the LUS JS system and I'll gladly put up with spurious ACARS inputs, heck I'll even wear the stupid vest during pre flight.

dsmith3631
03-05-2015, 11:40 AM
Sorry to use this topic for my request, but seemed close to correct.

Can I get a load check for AA127 IAD-DFW tomorrow morning, 3/6? IT looked open but with all the snow and cancellations today, it seems to have filled quickly.

Thanks.

PurpleTurtle
03-05-2015, 06:30 PM
It's not rocket science. But it is quite a bit less efficient of a system than the LUS system.

In the past, I would just type in the text into the scratch pad, enter it into the free text line and hit send. Now I have to press "edit", enter in the text, then press "enter" then press "send". At least 3-4 extra button pushes and a couple extra pages that wasn't necessary before.

Ditto with the "changeover report". It wants my landing weight and I have to hit "send" now, when it the past, for most of our aircraft it was automated and we got our gate info around 8,000'.

I could go on...you don't even want to know how much more complicated the final W/B and TPS is now with the new procedures compared to our old procedures, but I'll just stop there.

I can figure out the AA system just fine, I just think it's unnecessarily more complicated and not anywhere near as organized as the LUS system.


The ACARS requires fAAr more button pushes to do the same thing.... In fact there are so many new ACARS button pushes, our new pay rates are actually lower than they were before the merger (if you figure the pay rate as a function of ACARS button pushes per hour).

bigscrillywilli
03-06-2015, 04:48 AM
It worked just fine in the 60s so we'll just stick with that!

Let's also have thousands and thousands of checklists, safety vests, tuff cuffs (coming soon according to training) issued to pilots VS 1 or 2 per airplane and spares at hubs.

Oh and let's not forget getting up at 6 am on your day off to check in for commute flight and possibly get bumped by someone's kid who is on a connecting flight.

flyinawa
03-06-2015, 01:47 PM
It worked just fine in the 60s so we'll just stick with that!

Let's also have thousands and thousands of checklists, safety vests, tuff cuffs (coming soon according to training) issued to pilots VS 1 or 2 per airplane and spares at hubs.

Oh and let's not forget getting up at 6 am on your day off to check in for commute flight and possibly get bumped by someone's kid who is on a connecting flight.

Agree with most of your gripes. However, with IVR your ride to work is guaranteed.

bigscrillywilli
03-08-2015, 07:12 AM
Agree with most of your gripes. However, with IVR your ride to work is guaranteed.

Yeah I'm definitely on board with that. Works so well, but probably not with the NAAtive mindset.

Al Czervik
03-11-2015, 08:26 PM
Yeah I'm definitely on board with that. Works so well, but probably not with the NAAtive mindset.

Very glad we will be going to our system. The LAA guys will enjoy the ease of the system if they can ever get over having to deal with a change.

jcountry
03-12-2015, 02:35 AM
Very glad we will be going to our system. The LAA guys will enjoy the ease of the system if they can ever get over having to deal with a change.


Great news!

Best jumpseat system anywhere!

Frisco727
03-12-2015, 08:09 AM
Very glad we will be going to our system. The LAA guys will enjoy the ease of the system if they can ever get over having to deal with a change.

In all fairness Al, your 190 regional airline division is struggling with the ACARS system. Tune to Ch RC9.

It's been fun to watch. :rolleyes:

Thedude
03-12-2015, 08:45 AM
The changes that were made to the L-US bus ACARS made things unnecessarily complicated.
Talk about a step backwards.


Hopefully, once the single operating certificate is in place, they will go back and streamline our "new procedures" and un-fck things.

cencal83406
03-12-2015, 08:48 AM
In all fairness Al, your 190 regional airline division is struggling with the ACARS system. Tune to Ch RC9.

It's been fun to watch. :rolleyes:


Out of curiosity, do AA guys want to get rid of the 190? Too small?

TrakTrak
03-12-2015, 09:01 AM
Out of curiosity, do AA guys want to get rid of the 190? Too small?

I wouldn't leave the right seat of my current equipment to sit in the left of the 190.

Saabs
03-12-2015, 10:02 AM
Out of curiosity, do AA guys want to get rid of the 190? Too small?

Apparently Frisco does. I would love to have more, even though I voted no in part due to the higher % split of group I to group II

cencal83406
03-12-2015, 10:26 AM
I wouldn't leave the right seat of my current equipment to sit in the left of the 190.


Pay? Schedule? "RJ"?

Why didn't they pay it more? Is the contract an opening salvo to outsource the 190 (100 seat aircraft)?

PRS Guitars
03-12-2015, 10:51 AM
I wouldn't leave the right seat of my current equipment to sit in the left of the 190.
Of course you shouldn't do that. Our new contract makes group 1 left seat pay less than right seat group 2 pay after year 5. When the hiring stops around here anyone stuck in group 1 will make a lot less money than their peers in group 2.

I haven't flown with any captain in the last three months that isn't jumping ship to another fleet.

Thedude
03-12-2015, 11:06 AM
Redacted....

Couldn't read a table properly.

Hueypilot
03-12-2015, 11:42 AM
In all fairness Al, your 190 regional airline division is struggling with the ACARS system. Tune to Ch RC9.

It's been fun to watch. :rolleyes:

No one is "struggling" with it, it's just byzantine and unnecessarily complicated, as previously mentioned. Not hard to do, just annoyingly overcomplicated.

And FWIW, I think getting more RJ flying to the mainline would be a benefit for the entire industry, regardless of what the current 190 pay scale is. And yes, when the musical chairs stop, some people will be stuck on the 190 at the mainline. But I'd rather be stuck on the 190 at mainline Group I pay than get stuck on the 175 at PSA or Envoy pay scales.

Al Czervik
03-12-2015, 02:46 PM
With the constant steps backward on each RC...
When will AA implement the flight engineer into my Airbus?

Hueypilot
03-12-2015, 03:06 PM
With the constant steps backward on each RC...
When will AA implement the flight engineer into my Airbus?

Don't forget the upcoming modifications for sextant ports and the introduction of navigators to perform celestial navigation across the oceans. Perhaps we'll get our DF equipment back as well.

Arado 234
03-12-2015, 03:09 PM
In all fairness Al, your 190 regional airline division is struggling with the ACARS system. Tune to Ch RC9.

It's been fun to watch. :rolleyes:

It'll be fun to watch the LAA pilots when they realize that 25 years of seniority doesn't mean $h!t at LUS should we adapt a seniority-based system.

TrakTrak
03-12-2015, 05:16 PM
Pay? Schedule? "RJ"?

Why didn't they pay it more? Is the contract an opening salvo to outsource the 190 (100 seat aircraft)?

If you've been around these forums long enough you know the answers to your questions.

Frisco727
03-14-2015, 11:43 AM
It'll be fun to watch the LAA pilots when they realize that 25 years of seniority doesn't mean $h!t at LUS should we adapt a seniority-based system.

You write like that pic in your avatar. You don't make a bit of sense.

Is that what your goose looks like after an encounter a CFM56-5B?

Arado 234
03-14-2015, 01:54 PM
You write like that pic in your avatar. You don't make a bit of sense.

Is that what your goose looks like after an encounter a CFM56-5B?

You are obviously not familiar what little 25 years of seniority is at LUS.

Certain birds invert their bodies but keep their head level when they came in on a "slam dunk".

viper548
03-14-2015, 02:05 PM
25 years holds weekends off in the small bus (right seat)

Frisco727
03-15-2015, 11:00 AM
You are obviously not familiar what little 25 years of seniority is at LUS.

Certain birds invert their bodies but keep their head level when they came in on a "slam dunk".


Since you are more familiar, where does that put you? On the third list?

Looks like something my bird dog retrieved after I shot it down.

Hueypilot
03-15-2015, 11:55 AM
Flew with a captain today who's been around for 29 years (started with Piedmont). He's a block holder on the A320, somewhere around the middle of the list.

LUS has a lot of guys who've been hired since the 1980s. There's a stretch of 1999 hires, then pretty much nothing until around 2007-2008 which started with a trickle. I'd have to guess that around half the LUS East list has been working here since 1989 or earlier. 1987-88 guys are now reserve narrow body captains.

Arado 234
03-15-2015, 01:09 PM
Since you are more familiar, where does that put you? On the third list?

Looks like something my bird dog retrieved after I shot it down.

What list? First come, first serve. If I am late reserving the j/s and it's taken, I only have myself to blame. Once I reserve the j/s, that b¡tch is mine! *

What's your obsession with my avatar?

* Feds CAN bump you off

encore
03-15-2015, 01:42 PM
How does seniority = years with company? Under a DOH seniority list? Otherwise, it doesn't matter. Someone with 5 years at AA could end up being senior to someone with 25 years at US. And, under a seniority based system, said AA pilot would get the jumpseat.

"Years" means nothing unless the list is DOH... and, well, good luck with that.

Hueypilot
03-15-2015, 02:40 PM
I doubt there will be an ISL where a 5 year LAA pilot (are there any?) would go in front of a 25 year LUS pilot. That would be worse than the Nicolau award.

My guess is look at the DAL and UAL lists. We'll probably see something more along the lines of that before we'll see a monstrosity where relative new hires go ahead of guys with nearly three decades of service.

The point is, with so many LUS pilots with decades of service under their belt, the senior LAA guys will find themselves among a lot of new company, even if they use some other system other than DOH.

flyinawa
03-15-2015, 04:18 PM
I doubt there will be an ISL where a 5 year LAA pilot (are there any?) would go in front of a 25 year LUS pilot. That would be worse than the Nicolau award.

Isn't that how they handled TWA? I seriously don't know...I'm asking.

Hueypilot
03-15-2015, 05:44 PM
Isn't that how they handled TWA? I seriously don't know...I'm asking.

Yes, which prompted all the drama on their side (and ultimately drove what created McCaskill-Bond).

Maybe they'll do it again? But if so, they run the risk of even more drama, legal litigation and other problems. Ultimately if we can't agree it should wind up as an arbitrated award. And given the recent past history of integrated seniority lists, I'd expect something along the lines of UAL or DAL, or some combination. Not sure if current arbitrators would want to touch a Nicolau-like award considering all the gnashing of teeth that caused, but it's possible.

Name User
03-15-2015, 05:48 PM
TWA was out of cash and time. They were done. It sounds mean but AAL did those boys a favor buying the company instead of the routes. Most got furloughed anyway after 9/11 however.

It's a crappy career, hopefully AAG can run for 35+ years. The way they are going now most of our flying will be taken over by SWA or DAL or Emirates.

I fly with quite a few ex Eastern or Braniff or xxx guys. You just never know. When Braniff closed down in the 80's they had been around since the 1920's.

Hueypilot
03-15-2015, 06:04 PM
I don't think you can compare the AA/TWA merger with the current AA/US merger. Apples and oranges, so I wouldn't expect a seniority integration that threw US pilots under the bus...not that it wouldn't be attempted, but in the end I think it'll be arbitrated. It will probably make a lot of people mad but hopefully it'll be as fair as possible given the circumstances.

PRS Guitars
03-17-2015, 02:37 PM
I'm pretty much convinced that the APA is going to put up a massive fight over the JS (although interestingly enough, based on old threads, it looks like most AA regulars on here are for the US system).

So my question is for AA guys. I've read the commuter policy, and it is pretty nebulous. How does it work in practice? Are you able to get put into another sequence or dedhead to your sequence very often? Or, as I suspect, do you usually get removed from the sequence without pay (Supplement G, 4, d).

I'm thinking calling in sick would usually be the better option, assuming you have time in the bank.

Arado 234
03-20-2015, 12:56 PM
I'm afraid we may lose this based on AA pilots simply not understanding the process. Even the uber senior US guys like it. Don't let this go. This is a mistake boys.

I don't think that it has anything to do with understanding the US j/s system. It's all about effin' ego like 6 year olds in the gym changing room challenging each other who's got the bigger one.

You're looking for rationale and understanding? Look at the bill those APA reps spent on themselves!

Arado 234
05-06-2015, 02:53 PM
Update:

Seems like the bod couldn't reach an agreement to the j/s, so the company saved us from ourselves. Before you all relax, keep this in mind: if the flight is weight critical, the j/s will get bumped!

Thank you, APA, for f*cking up this awesome system! It takes reAAl men to do this, just to prove a f^cking point, that your [email protected] are bigger than theirs! I hope that those idiots get stuck commuting every effin time the try to get to or better from work!

Al Czervik
05-06-2015, 03:09 PM
Update:

Seems like the bod couldn't reach an agreement to the j/s, so the company saved us from ourselves. Before you all relax, keep this in mind: if the flight is weight critical, the j/s will get bumped!

Thank you, APA, for f*cking up this awesome system! It takes reAAl men to do this, just to prove a f^cking point, that your [email protected] are bigger than theirs! I hope that those idiots get stuck commuting every effin time the try to get to or better from work!

Can you give a few more details? What did the company decide? Last I heard it was a phone reservation system FCFS and we got bumped on weight restricted flights. What changed?

Arado 234
05-06-2015, 03:37 PM
Can you give a few more details? What did the company decide? Last I heard it was a phone reservation system FCFS and we got bumped on weight restricted flights. What changed?

Sorry. Basically, what you said. I AAm ****ed about losing the weight restricted flight j/s privilege. :mad:

Al Czervik
05-06-2015, 04:04 PM
Sorry. Basically, what you said. I AAm ****ed about losing the weight restricted flight j/s privilege. :mad:

I'm praying we don't lose the reservation system. That would be a colossal loss due to lack of education and understanding. Good thing is I believe the company wants it. They can count on commuters showing up for their trips.

Arado 234
05-06-2015, 04:29 PM
I'm praying we don't lose the reservation system. That would be a colossal loss due to lack of education and understanding. Good thing is I believe the company wants it. They can count on commuters showing up for their trips.

I hope so, too. Do not underestimate APA when it comes to screwing things up.

"This is how reAAL men do it! Wait all dAAy at the airport, son! Gotta pAAy your dues!"

EMBFlyer
05-06-2015, 04:45 PM
I hope so, too. Do not underestimate APA when it comes to screwing things up.

"This is how reAAL men do it! Wait all dAAy at the airport, son! Gotta pAAy your dues!"

Well, the jumpseat is NOT to be used for commuting!

The Drizzle
05-06-2015, 06:09 PM
Well, the jumpseat is NOT to be used for commuting!

Yeah, it's only for the senior captain who needs to fly to IMAX to pay for his toys/ex-wife/ex-wive's lovers' toys.

drinksonme
05-07-2015, 05:28 AM
My personal favorite, "you need to move to your base like I did."

Good for you, except you were 25 when you got hired, were not married, your wife did not have a better paying job than you, you did not have a business outside this wasteland, a family member was not sick and needed care, you were not displaced out of base 2 times in a year to another base..."move again" (still happening today at LUS). You didn't have kids in the middle of a school year, your house wasn't underwater from a recession and you would have to take a massive financial loss that would set you and your family back 5-10 years.....and so on

If you did move and had any of the things above, then it's easy to why you're a self-righous, self-serving a$$ that would say something like this. All because you want to make sure you can get to your vacation destination without those pesky "kid" commuters. I love it when seniors call me entitled, it is the true definition of hypocrisy

The Drizzle
05-07-2015, 05:36 AM
My personal favorite, "you need to move to your base like I did."

Good for you, except you were 25 when you got hired, were not married, your wife did not have a better paying job than you, you did not have a business outside this wasteland, a family member was not sick and needed care, you were not displaced out of base 2 times in a year to another base..."move again" (still happening today at LUS). You didn't have kids in the middle of a school year, your house wasn't underwater from a recession and you would have to take a massive financial lose that would set you and your family back 5-10 years.....and so on

If you did move and had any of the things above, then it's easy to why you're a self-righous, self-serving a$$ that would say something like this. All because you want to make sure you can get to your vacation destination without those pesky "kid" commuters. I love it when seniors call me entitled, it is the true definition of hypocrisy

It's best to stay off of C&R. I've never seen a larger collection of poorly formed opinions, voiced by boors, in my entire life.

Thedude
05-07-2015, 07:24 AM
It's best to stay off of C&R. I've never seen a larger collection of poorly formed opinions, voiced by boors, in my entire life.

Glad I am not the only one that feels that way.

EMBFlyer
05-07-2015, 07:41 AM
It's best to stay off of C&R. I've never seen a larger collection of poorly formed opinions, voiced by boors, in my entire life.

Best advice anyone's ever given on this forum!

Sliceback
05-07-2015, 08:24 AM
Agreed. Anonymous forums are much better.

Arado 234
05-07-2015, 08:32 AM
It's best to stay off of C&R. I've never seen a larger collection of poorly formed opinions, voiced by boors, in my entire life.

So... What are you saying about our American friends?

Al Czervik
05-07-2015, 08:50 AM
I get worried when I realize those on C&R are my coworkers.

450knotOffice
05-07-2015, 08:52 AM
Agreed. Anonymous forums are much better.

The irony is thick, isn't it? Pot, meet kettle.:rolleyes:

StratoSoda
05-07-2015, 11:48 AM
I am truly glad that the forums and C&R do not represent the majority of the people I have encountered at AA/US. If it truly did I think we would all be miserable, thankfully that is not the case in reality.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PRS Guitars
05-07-2015, 11:57 AM
Agreed. Anonymous forums are much better.

I know that you meant that sarcastically, but I really do think that this anonymous forum (even including the East/West fighting) is more civil than C&R. Personally, I stopped going to C&R and my mood and view of this job has improved dramatically.

flyinawa
05-07-2015, 12:59 PM
I know that you meant that sarcastically, but I really do think that this anonymous forum (even including the East/West fighting) is more civil than C&R. Personally, I stopped going to C&R and my mood and view of this job has improved dramatically.

Yep. It's not a pretty sandbox to play in.

PurpleTurtle
05-08-2015, 11:12 AM
It's best to stay off of C&R. I've never seen a larger collection of poorly formed opinions, voiced by boors, in my entire life.

Yeah, its a bunch of loser "YES" voters complaining that they don't like the way the company is beach slapping them.. and oh yeah, talking about how we need to get motivated and tell the company to change things for the better... :D

Sliceback
05-08-2015, 11:27 AM
Yeah, its a bunch of loser "YES" voters complaining that they don't like the way the company is beach slapping them.. and oh yeah, talking about how we need to get motivated and tell the company to change things for the better... :D

LOL. More sarcasm. Love it.

Good one but unfortunately it will go over uninformed readers heads.

CanoePilot
05-08-2015, 11:28 AM
Looks like its deadlocked with an advantage for the LAA way. Apparently the people in favor of LUS way walked out of the meeting today to avoid a vote. It looks like the LAA will prevail with the votes if it comes to that.

Al Czervik
05-08-2015, 11:53 AM
Looks like its deadlocked with an advantage for the LAA way. Apparently the people in favor of LUS way walked out of the meeting today to avoid a vote. It looks like the LAA will prevail with the votes if it comes to that.

Source????

EMBFlyer
05-08-2015, 11:56 AM
Looks like its deadlocked with an advantage for the LAA way. Apparently the people in favor of LUS way walked out of the meeting today to avoid a vote. It looks like the LAA will prevail with the votes if it comes to that.

What vote? The company said "This is way it is for now."

In the end, it'll come down to what the company wants. You know that. I know that.

Al Czervik
05-08-2015, 12:09 PM
What vote? The company said "This is way it is for now."

In the end, it'll come down to what the company wants. You know that. I know that.

This.

They clearly do not understand the benefits. Just like profit sharing.

EMBFlyer
05-08-2015, 12:20 PM
This.

They clearly do not understand the benefits. Just like profit sharing.

Nevermind. I checked C&R. The story is all on there.

Agreed, though. Lack of education and no desire to become educated. That's the wAAy we've always done it!

PurpleTurtle
05-08-2015, 12:22 PM
What vote? The company said "This is way it is for now."

In the end, it'll come down to what the company wants. You know that. I know that.

The company better keep the reservation system unless they want to see sick calls will go up due to the increased stress levels.

Al Czervik
05-08-2015, 12:27 PM
The company better keep the reservation system unless they want to see sick calls will go up due to the increased stress levels.

And missed commutes.

EMBFlyer
05-08-2015, 12:39 PM
The company better keep the reservation system unless they want to see sick calls will go up due to the increased stress levels.

The "2000 and less Seniority Number Crowd" has spoken. Under no circumstances is the jumpseat to be used for commuting!

Route66
05-08-2015, 01:44 PM
What vote? The company said "This is way it is for now."

In the end, it'll come down to what the company wants. You know that. I know that.

Yep.

Looks like its deadlocked with an advantage for the LAA way. Apparently the people in favor of LUS way walked out of the meeting today to avoid a vote. It looks like the LAA will prevail with the votes if it comes to that.

What vote? I should say what vote that has any meaning.

Nevermind. I checked C&R. The story is all on there.

Agreed, though. Lack of education and no desire to become educated. That's the wAAy we've always done it!

That's the APA.

The company better keep the reservation system unless they want to see sick calls will go up due to the increased stress levels.

The Company will deal with it, just like they always have.....sheeple will come running as always. Hole in the bucket of water thing here.

And missed commutes.

Same.

The "2000 and less Seniority Number Crowd" has spoken. Under no circumstances is the jumpseat to be used for commuting!

I'm not sure where THIS comes from. Can you elaborate?

EMBFlyer
05-08-2015, 01:56 PM
I'm not sure where THIS comes from. Can you elaborate?

With pleasure.

It was directed at the LAA guys, not the LUS guys. I fly with many, senior LUS commuters who very much favor our system.

If you look on C&R, all the guys getting major butthurt over the Reservation system have seniority numbers of 2000 or less, (except for a few) live in base and have unequivocally stated that the jumpseat is not for commuting. They haven't stated what it IS for, but I assume it is for whatever purpose they deem necessary at the time they need it. Their solution is to "just move to base."

They have stated that a commuter is not their concern. Essentially, it's "Don't worry son, you'll be senior some day."

Route66
05-09-2015, 03:55 AM
With pleasure.

It was directed at the LAA guys, not the LUS guys. I fly with many, senior LUS commuters who very much favor our system.

If you look on C&R, all the guys getting major butthurt over the Reservation system have seniority numbers of 2000 or less, (except for a few) live in base and have unequivocally stated that the jumpseat is not for commuting. They haven't stated what it IS for, but I assume it is for whatever purpose they deem necessary at the time they need it. Their solution is to "just move to base."

They have stated that a commuter is not their concern. Essentially, it's "Don't worry son, you'll be senior some day."

Yeah. We HAD that mentality here at LUS as well. But THOSE "senior guys" moved on. But since the APA doesn't care about seniority why should the rest of us. The LUS Jumpseat policy looks like it will be around for awhile.

The LAA senior guys need to watch their backs now. I can't get on C&R because I can't stand the hypocritical APA pilots who stiffed our professional unity and put us all in this mess. Since I am now a company man after the APA stripped us of all our leverage I have to agree with them.

Lose the cockpit commuters and have the Jumpseat open to company business only. Want to live out of base? Buy a seat.

Arado 234
05-09-2015, 04:39 AM
Yeah. We HAD that mentality here at LUS as well. But THOSE "senior guys" moved on. But since the APA doesn't care about seniority why should the rest of us. The LUS Jumpseat policy looks like it will be around for awhile.

The LAA senior guys need to watch their backs now. I can't get on C&R because I can't stand the hypocritical APA pilots who stiffed our professional unity and put us all in this mess. Since I am now a company man after the APA stripped us of all our leverage I have to agree with them.

Lose the cockpit commuters and have the Jumpseat open to company business only. Want to live out of base? Buy a seat.

What's next? Are you gonna tell me what kind of toilet paper to buy? Besides, who are THEY to dictate OTHERS what the jumpseat is for? Sounds like wannabe management types to me!

Sieg Heil!

Route66
05-09-2015, 05:41 AM
What's next? Are you gonna tell me what kind of toilet paper to buy? Besides, who are THEY to dictate OTHERS what the jumpseat is for? Sounds like wannabe management types to me!

Sieg Heil!

Well, whether you like it or not the CAPTAIN (in FAA parlance PIC) is a management position. If you read the Jumpseat policy it is the property of the Company, not the pilots. While the "policy" at most major airlines in the U.S.A. That authorized personel are allowed to ride the LEGALITY of it all is the Jumpseat is COMPANY PROPERTY.

A review of FM1 would be very helpful. In short, the FAA and the Company rule the roost. If the pilots continue to beat each other over the head like has happened over the past twenty years I expect cameras in the cockpit, guns are gone and "Lubitz" screenings to be the "new" normal.

The APA "Hitler Youth" have met their match.....the COMPANY.
Seig Heil!

Arado 234
05-09-2015, 07:02 AM
Well, whether you like it or not the CAPTAIN (in FAA parlance PIC) is a management position. If you read the Jumpseat policy it is the property of the Company, not the pilots. While the "policy" at most major airlines in the U.S.A. That authorized personel are allowed to ride the LEGALITY of it all is the Jumpseat is COMPANY PROPERTY.

A review of FM1 would be very helpful. In short, the FAA and the Company rule the roost. If the pilots continue to beat each other over the head like has happened over the past twenty years I expect cameras in the cockpit, guns are gone and "Lubitz" screenings to be the "new" normal.

The APA "Hitler Youth" have met their match.....the COMPANY.
Seig Heil!

What's Seig Heil?

If the company demands flexibility from its workers, it should offer flexibility in return. Your previous arguments sound right out of "Sky Gods". Time to let some air out!

What do you know about Lufthansa's screening process, their commuter policy etc. that you openly form an opinion on here (Andreas Lubitz) ? You might wanna start with some basic spelling.

Are you going to revive the stool sample analysis for new hires?

Route66
05-09-2015, 05:10 PM
What's Seig Heil?

If the company demands flexibility from its workers, it should offer flexibility in return. Your previous arguments sound right out of "Sky Gods". Time to let some air out!

What do you know about Lufthansa's screening process, their commuter policy etc. that you openly form an opinion on here (Andreas Lubitz) ? You might wanna start with some basic spelling.

Are you going to revive the stool sample analysis for new hires?

Actually I didn't make the Luftanza/German connection with the "Seig Heil" statement I made until you just brought it up.
Here is what it means and spelled.

Nazi salute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seig_Heil)

Here is what I meant about "the Hitler youth". The APA along with the Delta pilots (sky nazis) are the two groups that have always promoted themselves as the "superior race" of aviation. CRM wasn't pioneered at these two unions and we all know it...or at least those of us that have been around for a while.

The APA's autocratic, top down supreme being "Sky Gods" are the main reason BK was used as an excuse by the former management at AAL to "clean house" so to speak. The APA and "us included" now have bull rings around our balls for the rest of our careers and we have no one to thank but the APA. The East MEC reps and the STL reps(TWA) walked out the door last week on the seniority Jumpseat issue. So much for a quorem and UNITY.

As far as Luftanza's screening process I know enough to know that after Lubitz, it obviously isn't "enough" but I remember the American "crap test" didn't prove....well....CRAP. As far as my opinion on Lubitz......HE WAS CRAZY! Look, it's not only my opinion, EVERYONE THINKS HE WAS CRAZY! He MURDERED 150 people.

Let me spell it for you again, putz.

APA salute: SEIG HEIL!

Sliceback
05-09-2015, 05:40 PM
Anonymous sites rock.

Hueypilot
05-09-2015, 05:41 PM
SIEG Heil. Not seig heil. Get your fascist salutes correct, dammit!

Route66
05-09-2015, 05:59 PM
SIEG Heil. Not seig heil. Get your fascist salutes correct, dammit!

I'M GUMBY, DAMMIT!

Sorry my dyxtlextia kicked in again.....

SIEG,,,,,I say SIEG, son!
(I before e, except after c")

drinksonme
05-09-2015, 06:26 PM
The East MEC reps and the STL reps(TWA) walked out the door last week on the seniority Jumpseat issue.

It probably pains you, but you forgot to mention the West "PHX" reps that walked out as well . So really that's a huge step of Unity

And an ORD rep too. Just sayin

Oh and DCA, who is not old USAPA Eastie

I do not know if they "walked out" as a C&R crazy says, but I do know that a DFW rep said the BOD would poll the pilot group for feedback in March......anyone get that poll or questionnaire?.....Me neither. So that leads me to believe a few hard line "seniority" guys on the BOD were gonna ram something through, cause if they really did poll the pilot group seniority would not be preferred by the majority. The other members found a way to delay it. Sadly it's all a circus as the company will set the policy and then which ever group is on the wrong end will **** and moan. That's all it will be.

Route66
05-09-2015, 06:39 PM
It probably pains you, but you forgot to mention the West "PHX" reps that walked out as well . So really that's a huge step of Unity

And an ORD rep too. Just sayin

Oh and DCA, who is not old USAPA Eastie

I do not know if they "walked out" as a C&R crazy says, but I do know that a DFW rep said the BOD would poll the pilot group for feedback in March......anyone get that poll or questionnaire?.....Me neither. So that leads me to believe a few hard line "seniority" guys on the BOD were gonna ram something through, cause if they really did poll the pilot group seniority would not be preferred by the majority. The other members found a way to delay it. Sadly it's all a circus as the company will set the policy and then which ever group is on the wrong end will **** and moan. That's all it will be.

Even better. Circus alright. Sad? More like pathetic while the APA tries to demonstrate relevancy in the 21st century. Kind of like Wilson et all pretending to be Benjamin Franklin flying the kite in the thunderstorm and telling us they're flying the line.

SHOCKING!

What a crock.

viper548
05-09-2015, 06:41 PM
I'm sure any poll on the jumpseat would work as well as the uniform poll did.

full of luv
05-09-2015, 06:45 PM
Actually I didn't make the Luftanza/German connection with the "Seig Heil" statement I made until you just brought it up.
Here is what it means and spelled.

Nazi salute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seig_Heil)

Here is what I meant about "the Hitler youth". The APA along with the Delta pilots (sky nazis) are the two groups that have always promoted themselves as the "superior race" of aviation. CRM wasn't pioneered at these two unions and we all know it...or at least those of us that have been around for a while.

The APA's autocratic, top down supreme being "Sky Gods" are the main reason BK was used as an excuse by the former management at AAL to "clean house" so to speak. The APA and "us included" now have bull rings around our balls for the rest of our careers and we have no one to thank but the APA. The East MEC reps and the STL reps(TWA) walked out the door last week on the seniority Jumpseat issue. So much for a quorem and UNITY.

As far as Luftanza's screening process I know enough to know that after Lubitz, it obviously isn't "enough" but I remember the American "crap test" didn't prove....well....CRAP. As far as my opinion on Lubitz......HE WAS CRAZY! Look, it's not only my opinion, EVERYONE THINKS HE WAS CRAZY! He MURDERED 150 people.

Let me spell it for you again, putz.

APA salute: SEIG HEIL!

Wait, I thought AA was the "sky Nazis" and Delta were the "van admirals" or do I have my pilot slurs wrong?:eek:

Route66
05-10-2015, 12:59 AM
Wait, I thought AA was the "sky Nazis" and Delta were the "van admirals" or do I have my pilot slurs wrong?:eek:

Matter of perspective.

Arado 234
05-10-2015, 12:52 PM
Actually I didn't make the Luftanza/German connection with the "Seig Heil" statement I made until you just brought it up.
Here is what it means and spelled.

Nazi salute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seig_Heil)

Here is what I meant about "the Hitler youth". The APA along with the Delta pilots (sky nazis) are the two groups that have always promoted themselves as the "superior race" of aviation. CRM wasn't pioneered at these two unions and we all know it...or at least those of us that have been around for a while.

The APA's autocratic, top down supreme being "Sky Gods" are the main reason BK was used as an excuse by the former management at AAL to "clean house" so to speak. The APA and "us included" now have bull rings around our balls for the rest of our careers and we have no one to thank but the APA. The East MEC reps and the STL reps(TWA) walked out the door last week on the seniority Jumpseat issue. So much for a quorem and UNITY.

As far as Luftanza's screening process I know enough to know that after Lubitz, it obviously isn't "enough" but I remember the American "crap test" didn't prove....well....CRAP. As far as my opinion on Lubitz......HE WAS CRAZY! Look, it's not only my opinion, EVERYONE THINKS HE WAS CRAZY! He MURDERED 150 people.

Let me spell it for you again, putz.

APA salute: SEIG HEIL!

You should have saved your explanation, I am very well aware of what it means and how to spell it. Hint: the long "i" ("e" in English) in German is spelled "ie" (which makes it long), the "I" is spelled "ei" (like Ei = Egg).

Putting the German language aside, it bothers me that APA has been delaying the jumpseat issue. I DON'T WANNA LIVE IN ANY OF THEIR BASES. I don't want to commute and stress like I am working for some crappy commuter. And the last thing I need to hear is people telling me where I should live and make decisions on my life style!!! :mad:

Arado 234
05-10-2015, 12:54 PM
SIEG Heil. Not seig heil. Get your fascist salutes correct, dammit!

Huey, are you West? Do you know how the jumpseat policy was adopted in the HP/US merger?

Arado 234
05-10-2015, 12:57 PM
It probably pains you, but you forgot to mention the West "PHX" reps that walked out as well . So really that's a huge step of Unity

And an ORD rep too. Just sayin

Oh and DCA, who is not old USAPA Eastie

I do not know if they "walked out" as a C&R crazy says, but I do know that a DFW rep said the BOD would poll the pilot group for feedback in March......anyone get that poll or questionnaire?.....Me neither. So that leads me to believe a few hard line "seniority" guys on the BOD were gonna ram something through, cause if they really did poll the pilot group seniority would not be preferred by the majority. The other members found a way to delay it. Sadly it's all a circus as the company will set the policy and then which ever group is on the wrong end will **** and moan. That's all it will be.

Exactly WHO are those hardline seniority "we'll f^ck up the j/s policy" tough guys?

inline five
05-10-2015, 12:57 PM
$100k meeting and they blow it. Isn't anyone else upset at that fact?

Hueypilot
05-10-2015, 04:32 PM
Huey, are you West? Do you know how the jumpseat policy was adopted in the HP/US merger?

What are you talking about? I was just poking fun at the Nazi spelling bee going on a page back.

CanoePilot
05-10-2015, 04:55 PM
$100k meeting and they blow it. Isn't anyone else upset at that fact?

Why would a meeting cost 100k?

inline five
05-10-2015, 07:31 PM
Why would a meeting cost 100k?

According to the email that's how much the out of pocket cost is for the entire thing. Flight pay loss, facility charges, food, etc it all adds up.

viper548
05-10-2015, 07:49 PM
Food is $400 each. It adds up quickly.

drinksonme
05-10-2015, 08:12 PM
Exactly WHO are those hardline seniority "we'll f^ck up the j/s policy" tough guys?

A DFW rep, JW, was very very adamant about APA policy and procedure regarding seniority. Basically saying it was an APA bylaw that seniority is king. He then said the Jumpseat issue would be looked at and that the pilot group, not just his senior buddies, would be polled about the Jumpseat policy going forward. Yet here we are with no poll and a group of the BOD pushing seniority rule for Jumpseat. That means at least 13 members of the BOD are for seniority, influenced or not by other BOD members. DFW, MIA, BOS, LAX (both new to the BOD), LGA, one ORD (one new to BOD)and a couple wild cards are for the archaic seniory rule.........with zero imput from the 14000 member pilot group. It's a power trip and the BOD players against the archaic seniority system, delayed a power grab by the BOD group protecting the top 2000 pilots. APA BOD is like the U.S. Congress....trust them they know what's best for you.....but really are just trying to make their friends (lobbyists with influence) around their seniority happy....

Sliceback
05-10-2015, 09:04 PM
Huh? We have numerous guys saying the seats are always open even a day or two before the day of flight. So they tried to implement a seniority based system for four days followed by three days of FCFS. And the FCFS supporters walked out to stop the debate.

So if the seats there a day or two before the flight what's the problem with a seniority based system for the first four days?

Route66
05-11-2015, 01:47 AM
A DFW rep, JW, was very very adamant about APA policy and procedure regarding seniority. Basically saying it was an APA bylaw that seniority is king. He then said the Jumpseat issue would be looked at and that the pilot group, not just his senior buddies, would be polled about the Jumpseat policy going forward. Yet here we are with no poll and a group of the BOD pushing seniority rule for Jumpseat. That means at least 13 members of the BOD are for seniority, influenced or not by other BOD members. DFW, MIA, BOS, LAX (both new to the BOD), LGA, one ORD (one new to BOD)and a couple wild cards are for the archaic seniory rule.........with zero imput from the 14000 member pilot group. It's a power trip and the BOD players against the archaic seniority system, delayed a power grab by the BOD group protecting the top 2000 pilots. APA BOD is like the U.S. Congress....trust them they know what's best for you.....but really are just trying to make their friends (lobbyists with influence) around their seniority happy....

Hey, I'm all for competition. The Doctor just gave me a clean bill of health, I feel great, family and friend life is great, making the big bucks and I'm looking forward to do what the company says to for for the next 10 years. YEAH!

I'll race you APA guys to the 777/787 left seat since seniority doesn't matter anymore. APA doesn't control our destiny anymore.

It's a great time being an original East pilot. I just take my cues from the West playbook.

Arado 234
05-11-2015, 03:21 AM
A DFW rep, JW, was very very adamant about APA policy and procedure regarding seniority. Basically saying it was an APA bylaw that seniority is king. He then said the Jumpseat issue would be looked at and that the pilot group, not just his senior buddies, would be polled about the Jumpseat policy going forward. Yet here we are with no poll and a group of the BOD pushing seniority rule for Jumpseat. That means at least 13 members of the BOD are for seniority, influenced or not by other BOD members. DFW, MIA, BOS, LAX (both new to the BOD), LGA, one ORD (one new to BOD)and a couple wild cards are for the archaic seniory rule.........with zero imput from the 14000 member pilot group. It's a power trip and the BOD players against the archaic seniority system, delayed a power grab by the BOD group protecting the top 2000 pilots. APA BOD is like the U.S. Congress....trust them they know what's best for you.....but really are just trying to make their friends (lobbyists with influence) around their seniority happy....

What would it take to force a vote from the pilot group?

Route66
05-11-2015, 03:56 AM
What would it take to force a vote from the pilot group?

A gun to their heads....oh, thats right we live in a democracy. You can't "force" a vote otherwise. You COULD ask the MEC to POLL the pilot group if that is what you mean but that still takes....a majority of the MEC to approve it first.

But in the end, the reality is it is first come first serve under the IVR system.

DCA A321 FO
05-11-2015, 04:26 AM
But in the end, the reality is it is first come first serve under the IVR system.

Yes, but I don't even try to reserve it til 2 or 3 days out. Maybe f you are in PIT you are trying 7 days out but I don't think that applies everywhere. The LAA are a bunch of AA or the highway mentality fu{ks.

Bad-Andy
05-11-2015, 04:27 AM
Huh? We have numerous guys saying the seats are always open even a day or two before the day of flight. So they tried to implement a seniority based system for four days followed by three days of FCFS. And the FCFS supporters walked out to stop the debate.

So if the seats there a day or two before the flight what's the problem with a seniority based system for the first four days?

Sliceback,

The biggest difficulty (not insurmountable, but certainly costly) would be an enforcement/notification system. If it is seniority-based for the first few days, there would have to be some way to notify a guy that already has it booked that he was "bumped" by someone senior, so he can start making alternate plans (maybe he would be senior on the next earlier flight, for example). And, there needs to be some way to ensure that a senior guy does not list (bumping the junior guy), cancel the listing, then relist on a different flight (bumping someone else), as this would negate the value of the IVR system to both the company (in terms of increased reliability) and to the pilots (in terms of less stress and ease of commute).

The easiest way I see to meld both together is to do just the opposite -- use the reservation system from 7 days until 12 hours prior to departure FCFS. Then any reservations made within 12 hours are subject to seniority at the gate. That way commuters that plan ahead and long-call reserves that get the once-in-a-while last minute call-out can adequately plan their commutes. And, seniority still rules for last minute changes, unplanned events (delays, cancellations, picking up open time), etc.

Route66
05-11-2015, 04:38 AM
Yes, but I don't even try to reserve it til 2 or 3 days out. Maybe f you are in PIT you are trying 7 days out but I don't think that applies everywhere. The LAA are a bunch of AA or the highway mentality fu{ks.

That is nice of you but like you said, 7 days out is the max and it IS at the pilots discretion. The LAA guys can suck it up. After the Company slap down of the West company,aunts at the crew news last week the Comapny controls the road and we are along for the ride.

PRS Guitars
05-11-2015, 04:50 AM
Sliceback,

The biggest difficulty (not insurmountable, but certainly costly) would be an enforcement/notification system. If it is seniority-based for the first few days, there would have to be some way to notify a guy that already has it booked that he was "bumped" by someone senior, so he can start making alternate plans (maybe he would be senior on the next earlier flight, for example). And, there needs to be some way to ensure that a senior guy does not list (bumping the junior guy), cancel the listing, then relist on a different flight (bumping someone else), as this would negate the value of the IVR system to both the company (in terms of increased reliability) and to the pilots (in terms of less stress and ease of commute).

The easiest way I see to meld both together is to do just the opposite -- use the reservation system from 7 days until 12 hours prior to departure FCFS. Then any reservations made within 12 hours are subject to seniority at the gate. That way commuters that plan ahead and long-call reserves that get the once-in-a-while last minute call-out can adequately plan their commutes. And, seniority still rules for last minute changes, unplanned events (delays, cancellations, picking up open time), etc.

I agree with what you wrote in the first paragraph, but your solution wouldn't work. If it reverts to seniority in the last 12 hours, that makes it simply a seniority system. What's the point of even having a reservation system if in the end the seat just goes to the senior pilot.

Personally, I plan to use my sick time to mitigate this if we go with AA's system (which I think will happen). If I don't make my commute, I'm calling in sick. I don't trust the scheduling to reflow me into my trip or give me replacement flying, and per the contract, they don't have to.

It's just funny to me, that the APA wouldn't take a stand with the company on this contract, but when it comes to the JS, they're finally taking a stand. It's just that their stand is (arguably) bad for the pilot group on balance.

PRS Guitars
05-11-2015, 05:39 AM
I agree with what you wrote in the first paragraph, but your solution wouldn't work. If it reverts to seniority in the last 12 hours, that makes it simply a seniority system. What's the point of even having a reservation system if in the end the seat just goes to the senior pilot.

Too late to edit my post...

BA,

I retread your proposal, I misunderstood it the first time through. I think what you're saying is:

One could reserve the seat on a FCFS basis up to 7 days prior and it would be locked in as their seat. Then on D-Day, IF the seat was still open, it would be available under the old AA seniority system.

I think that actually makes a pretty good compromise.

teddyballgame
05-11-2015, 06:31 AM
Yet here we are with no poll and a group of the BOD pushing seniority rule for Jumpseat. That means at least 13 members of the BOD are for seniority, influenced or not by other BOD members. DFW, MIA, BOS, LAX (both new to the BOD), LGA, one ORD (one new to BOD)and a couple wild cards are for the archaic seniory rule.........with zero imput from the 14000 member pilot group. ...


I'm assuming that at least part of the obstinance on the part of the LAA board members regarding the j/s policy stems from the fact that most of them don't commute.

What I would suggest to them is, remove the blinders and take a long hard look at Parker's history regarding multiple crew domiciles.

At the time of the USA/AWE merger, the combined airlines had eight crew bases. They now have four.

And to those who smugly think, "Oh, they'll never close (or downsize) Fortress XXX" -- that's the same feeling of security the PIT crewmembers had about their base 10 years ago.

Arado 234
05-11-2015, 06:32 AM
A gun to their heads....oh, thats right we live in a democracy. You can't "force" a vote otherwise. You COULD ask the MEC to POLL the pilot group if that is what you mean but that still takes....a majority of the MEC to approve it first.

But in the end, the reality is it is first come first serve under the IVR system.

What about starting a recall for those BOD members that want to dump the US Air j/s system? :confused:

Al Czervik
05-11-2015, 07:16 AM
What about starting a recall for those BOD members that want to dump the US Air j/s system? :confused:

They clearly stated that they received an overwhelming amount of emails in the support of the LUS system. APA is not following membership input.

Bad-Andy
05-11-2015, 09:39 AM
Too late to edit my post...

BA,

I retread your proposal, I misunderstood it the first time through. I think what you're saying is:

One could reserve the seat on a FCFS basis up to 7 days prior and it would be locked in as their seat. Then on D-Day, IF the seat was still open, it would be available under the old AA seniority system.

I think that actually makes a pretty good compromise.

Exactly what I meant -- you reserve it 7 days to 12 hours out, it's yours. Inside 12 hours, if it isn't booked (or if either the Primary or Alternate don't show up), it goes by seniority at the gate.

There also needs to be a cut-off point at which whoever is on the seat has it, say 30 minutes prior to departure. It is unreasonable to expect the company to take a delay off-loading a jumpseater and on-loading another because someone more senior (or someone that listed for it) strolls up at 10 mins prior to departure (seen often with 2 guys in FLL, and it drives the agents crazy)...

Route66
05-11-2015, 10:46 AM
Exactly what I meant -- you reserve it 7 days to 12 hours out, it's yours. Inside 12 hours, if it isn't booked (or if either the Primary or Alternate don't show up), it goes by seniority at the gate.

There also needs to be a cut-off point at which whoever is on the seat has it, say 30 minutes prior to departure. It is unreasonable to expect the company to take a delay off-loading a jumpseater and on-loading another because someone more senior (or someone that listed for it) strolls up at 10 mins prior to departure (seen often with 2 guys in FLL, and it drives the agents crazy)...

Sounds great except for one thing: it's not up to the APA. It's up to the company and it will still be first come first serve.

There's the reality of it.

EMBFlyer
05-11-2015, 10:53 AM
Why should LUS be forced to compromise at all? That's all we've done is compromise (when we're not having things forced upon us). There are a lot of good things we had that have been thrown in the garbage or tweaked and screwed up because "it wasn't invented at AA."

PurpleTurtle
05-11-2015, 12:13 PM
Sounds great except for one thing: it's not up to the APA. It's up to the company and it will still be first come first serve.

There's the reality of it.

Pilots should quit wasting their time having any opinions at all about what the company is doing. Can't everyone see that the company will always do what it wants to? Always!!

Either the company will just do what it wants to (and win through grievance delays) or it will put out a vote and the stupid pilots will vote "yes, please let me give you more concessions already". No matter what, the company will take what they want or get stupid pilots to give it up...

There is no reason to have an opinion. Its a waste of time. Know the contract and the FAA rules. Do your job and make as much F-ing money as you can TODAY because tomorrow it will be harder.

Route66
05-11-2015, 12:47 PM
Pilots should quit wasting their time having any opinions at all about what the company is doing. Can't everyone see that the company will always do what it wants to? Always!!

Either the company will just do what it wants to (and win through grievance delays) or it will put out a vote and the stupid pilots will vote "yes, please let me give you more concessions already". No matter what, the company will take what they want or get stupid pilots to give it up...

There is no reason to have an opinion. Its a waste of time. Know the contract and the FAA rules. Do your job and make as much F-ing money as you can TODAY because tomorrow it will be harder.

That's the reality of it. Of course the Company will always LISTEN to your opinion but it will cost you a lot if you want them to feign sympathy.

full of luv
05-11-2015, 12:48 PM
Pilots should quit wasting their time having any opinions at all about what the company is doing. Can't everyone see that the company will always do what it wants to? Always!!

Either the company will just do what it wants to (and win through grievance delays) or it will put out a vote and the stupid pilots will vote "yes, please let me give you more concessions already". No matter what, the company will take what they want or get stupid pilots to give it up...

There is no reason to have an opinion. Its a waste of time. Know the contract and the FAA rules. Do your job and make as much F-ing money as you can TODAY because tomorrow it will be harder.

This actually sounds like a small speech lifted from the planet of the Apes when the Apes realize they are being duped.

PurpleTurtle
05-11-2015, 05:56 PM
This actually sounds like a small speech lifted from the planet of the Apes when the Apes realize they are being duped.

Both the APA and management are duping pilots. Its the secret no one will tell you when you get hired or get off probation. Most pilots are zombies and will never wake up, but will always side with one or the other. :cool:

Just learn the scheduling rules and the operating regs and then take advantage of them to your best ability. You are an independent contractor, limited only by "franchise rules". Don't apologize. Just enjoy the job and don't worry about any of the other sheet that doesn't add any value.

DCA A321 FO
05-11-2015, 10:35 PM
Why should LUS be forced to compromise at all? That's all we've done is compromise (when we're not having things forced upon us). There are a lot of good things we had that have been thrown in the garbage or tweaked and screwed up because "it wasn't invented at AA."


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What he said.

bottoms up
05-28-2015, 11:07 AM
Just curious but what city pairs would you say have the highest percentage of guys in the j/s?

or how is the dfw-lax commute? Asking because I ( UAL guy) may have to start off line jumpseating and wondering about my realistic chances?

Thanks

EMBFlyer
05-28-2015, 11:54 AM
Just curious but what city pairs would you say have the highest percentage of guys in the j/s?

or how is the dfw-lax commute? Asking because I ( UAL guy) may have to start off line jumpseating and wondering about my realistic chances?

Thanks

Anything to and from Pittsburgh on the LUS side. I can't speak for DFW-LAX, but I think it's gone to a lot of 321s, which have 2 jumpseats. You might be ok, as long as a Senior CAAptain doesn't decide to zip out to the coast for a day, "since commuting should be a reserved privilege for the senior only and all junior pilots should be forced to move to base." <--------Actual quote from an LAA pilot.

bottoms up
05-28-2015, 12:04 PM
"since commuting should be a reserved privilege for the senior only and all junior pilots should be forced to move to base." <--------Actual quote from an LAA pilot.

Wow he must be a pleasure to fly with…
Thanks though. Funny UAL only has 2 70 seaters flying the dfw-lax route daily but AA has like 13 mainline flights a day. I use AA a bunch heading to DFW from various places and I really appreciate it.

Sliceback
05-28-2015, 12:21 PM
Even with a reservation system an AA guy who walked up would go ahead of an OAL jumpseater.

Sliceback
05-28-2015, 12:23 PM
That's not the quote but nothing like changing the words to make him look worse and you look better. Life can be like that.

EMBFlyer
05-28-2015, 12:32 PM
That's not the quote but nothing like changing the words to make him look worse and you look better. Life can be like that.

I paraphrased.

Here's the actual quote:

"The jump seat is just that, a jump seat. The sooner commuters begin to realize that, the sooner the junior will live in base and commuting will become a senior treat."

The wife had to unscrew me from the ceiling when I read that.

DCA A321 FO
05-28-2015, 02:38 PM
The actual quote is worse than the paraphrase. What an anushole.

Arado 234
05-28-2015, 07:04 PM
[...]

Here's the actual quote:

"The jump seat is just that, a jump seat. The sooner commuters begin to realize that, the sooner the junior will live in base and commuting will become a senior treat."


senior eh? what kind of seniority are we talking about? DOH? relative seniority? completion of OE? time you got @nally penetrated by APA?

who is this d!ckhead that is screwing with the LUS IVR?

buddies8
05-28-2015, 07:33 PM
seniority rules, always has, live with it.

LIOG41
05-28-2015, 07:49 PM
seniority rules, always has, live with it.

You clearly don't understand the benefits of the LUS system that will clearly benefit the overwhelming majority of pilots. Commuters or not. Give it a try.

Arado 234
05-28-2015, 09:19 PM
seniority rules, always has, live with it.

Ignorance is strength

George Orwell

DCA A321 FO
05-29-2015, 01:01 AM
senior eh? what kind of seniority are we talking about? DOH? relative seniority? completion of OE? time you got @nally penetrated by APA?

who is this d!ckhead that is screwing with the LUS IVR?

I think #27 and #47 for sure had that view. Many others also.

Frip
05-29-2015, 06:23 AM
seniority rules, always has, live with it.

Actually, only until PSS implementation, this fall they say...

fwiw, live with it, etc.:eek:

drinksonme
05-29-2015, 06:58 AM
seniority rules, always has, live with it.

Age 60 ruled as well, but I am sure someone like yourself from the real "entitlement" generation can come up with plenty of excuses on how things have never applied to you. FCFS is coming....deal with it.

aa73
05-29-2015, 07:09 AM
Everyone please just chill and quit pointing fingers. As was mentioned, the IVR will be implemented in time for PSS this fall. Love it or hate it, it's coming. What we are working on is a hybrid system that will preserve some aspect of seniority that would be implemented well after the IVR begins. It is to be expected that some AA pilots will put up a fight, they, like ever other pilot group out there, are somewhat reluctant towards change after doing it the same way for years. So relax and let the process play out, and stay respectful to each other above all.
73
APA j/s committee

CenterlinePrep
05-29-2015, 07:44 AM
The AA pilots are going to enjoy the US IVR system. Best system in the industry.

kdogger
05-29-2015, 08:47 AM
Even with a reservation system an AA guy who walked up would go ahead of an OAL jumpseater.

No one else addressed this not completely thought out statement, so I will.

With a reservation system, an OAL pilot can't make a reservation. So if an AA walks up, both don't have reservations, and of course we get priority on our own metal.

I think the AA group is a lot like I am. I often can't fully understand a concept until I've experienced it. I am beyond thrilled they will get to experience a FCFS reservation system before they shoot it down.

Justdoinmyjob
05-29-2015, 08:55 AM
The AA pilots are going to enjoy the US IVR system. Best system in the industry.
Ya mean like how most every other airline does it too?

CenterlinePrep
05-29-2015, 09:30 AM
Deleted. Not worth it.

Route66
05-30-2015, 02:20 AM
Age 60 ruled as well, but I am sure someone like yourself from the real "entitlement" generation can come up with plenty of excuses on how things have never applied to you. FCFS is coming....deal with it.

Everyone please just chill and quit pointing fingers. As was mentioned, the IVR will be implemented in time for PSS this fall. Love it or hate it, it's coming. What we are working on is a hybrid system that will preserve some aspect of seniority that would be implemented well after the IVR begins. It is to be expected that some AA pilots will put up a fight, they, like ever other pilot group out there, are somewhat reluctant towards change after doing it the same way for years. So relax and let the process play out, and stay respectful to each other above all.
73
APA j/s committee

The AA pilots are going to enjoy the US IVR system. Best system in the industry.

I like FCFS! It totally evicerates the union and puts life back in the individuals and the Company's hands. Then we just wind up paying dues for more LEC parties!

Al Czervik
05-30-2015, 06:05 AM
Ya mean like how most every other airline does it too?

Ask delta and fedex pilots how they like it.