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View Full Version : Trans States And Awac


idlethrust
11-23-2014, 10:20 AM
Trans states is adding 36 aircraft for united and 15 more for AA?? Awac is adding 26 more for delta with the possibility of additional crj 900 flying in the near future?
Wow.How quickly things change.I know these planes are being added at the expense of envoy and Xjt pilots and I wish the best for them.Awac is one of the highest cost operators out there , but they were able to get a deal with delta , and everyone knows delta wants rock bottom contracts with their regional carriers.Dont know how they did it but they pulled a rabbit out of the hat in the 13th hour.Still no word on the extension or lack there of with the airways flying. I've noticed that none of airways crj200 s are being repainted. None of Awac or Psa 200s are being repainted so something is going on there with those .Ive heard rumors of Psa 200s being transfered to peidmont soon.Trans states, Mesa, Psa,Awac , Or compass seems to be the only ones growing and with alot of movement in the near future.If you live near one of their bases get in now . Xjt , Envoy are better companies with better contracts but along with endeavor, alot of uncertainty is on the horizon.


tom11011
11-23-2014, 10:25 AM
Awac is one of the highest cost operators out there , but they were able to get a deal with delta , and everyone knows delta wants rock bottom contracts with their regional carriers.Dont know how they did it but they pulled a rabbit out of the hat in the 13th hour.

My guess would be when you average out the total cost of labor after adding a bunch of new hire FO's and then relatively new junior captains, it must give them a labor cost structure they can live with.

HobGoblin
11-23-2014, 10:34 AM
Trans states is adding 36 aircraft for united and 15 more for AA?? Awac is adding 26 more for delta with the possibility of additional crj 900 flying in the near future?
Wow.How quickly things change.I know these planes are being added at the expense of envoy and Xjt pilots and I wish the best for them.Awac is one of the highest cost operators out there , but they were able to get a deal with delta , and everyone knows delta wants rock bottom contracts with their regional carriers.Dont know how they did it but they pulled a rabbit out of the hat in the 13th hour.Still no word on the extension or lack there of with the airways flying. I've noticed that none of airways crj200 s are being repainted. None of Awac or Psa 200s are being repainted so something is going on there with those .Ive heard rumors of Psa 200s being transfered to peidmont soon.Trans states, Mesa, Psa,Awac , Or compass seems to be the only ones growing and with alot of movement in the near future.If you live near one of their bases get in now . Xjt , Envoy are better companies with better contracts but along with endeavor, alot of uncertainty is on the horizon.


When/where did this AWAC CRJ 900 flying rumor come about? I've yet to hear that. All I know is the crj200 flying for us airways lease expires in 2015, with the option to extend it.


c250ft
11-23-2014, 10:45 AM
Does this mean we should avoid working for AWAC now too since they are taking planes from other companies. I just want to make sure I can hold my head up high for whoever I go to work for.

idlethrust
11-23-2014, 11:04 AM
From what my friend at Endeavor told me is that if they can't staff the 81 crj 900s properly some of it will probably be dealt to Awac as well if the 200 flying goes well . Endeavor is having a very difficult time staffing right now I guess.

Nevets
11-23-2014, 11:05 AM
Does this mean we should avoid working for AWAC now too since they are taking planes from other companies. I just want to make sure I can hold my head up high for whoever I go to work for.


AWAC has an industry leading contract along with XJT. No shame there.

SevereClear1
11-23-2014, 11:07 AM
Does this mean we should avoid working for AWAC now too since they are taking planes from other companies. I just want to make sure I can hold my head up high for whoever I go to work for.


The key is AWAC is not stealing planes as much as they are postponing their mothballing, Delta already said they want to bring endeavor to an all 900 fleet and 81 planes they are just giving the planes to someone else while they can still be profitable. 9e was going to lose the planes regardless


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

lakehouse
11-23-2014, 12:12 PM
Does this mean we should avoid working for AWAC now too since they are taking planes from other companies. I just want to make sure I can hold my head up high for whoever I go to work for.

Considering they didn't take a concessionary contract for airplanes during an industry wide stand, and trample the industry, like a p airline or two....I think the awac guys are still loved. Airwilly guys also told management no concessionary contract last year.

gloopy
11-23-2014, 12:28 PM
This looks suspiciously like check kiting though. Legacy airlines are busy scrambling to hire eachother's regional providers because their own can't get it done, while the others hire theirs. Meanwhile on paper the growth from reshuffling when the contracts are signed makes the projected costs look great so the legacies think they are solving their problems when they are really just making it worse long term lol

TeamRamRod
11-23-2014, 12:46 PM
Considering they didn't take a concessionary contract for airplanes during an industry wide stand, and trample the industry, like a p airline or two....I think the awac guys are still loved. Airwilly guys also told management no concessionary contract last year.

Trans States didn't take concessions either. G7 was formed by that pilot group refusing them in '07 as well. May not be an 'industry leading' contract per some people's definition but its more than bearable.

cartean
11-23-2014, 01:04 PM
Psa's 200s are getting repainted. As soon as they finish painting the 700s.

Moonwolf
11-23-2014, 03:50 PM
Trans states is adding 36 aircraft for united and 15 more for AA?? Awac is adding 26 more for delta with the possibility of additional crj 900 flying in the near future?
Wow.How quickly things change.I know these planes are being added at the expense of envoy and Xjt pilots and I wish the best for them.Awac is one of the highest cost operators out there , but they were able to get a deal with delta , and everyone knows delta wants rock bottom contracts with their regional carriers.Dont know how they did it but they pulled a rabbit out of the hat in the 13th hour.Still no word on the extension or lack there of with the airways flying. I've noticed that none of airways crj200 s are being repainted. None of Awac or Psa 200s are being repainted so something is going on there with those .Ive heard rumors of Psa 200s being transfered to peidmont soon.Trans states, Mesa, Psa,Awac , Or compass seems to be the only ones growing and with alot of movement in the near future.If you live near one of their bases get in now . Xjt , Envoy are better companies with better contracts but along with endeavor, alot of uncertainty is on the horizon.

First of all your post is a verbal throw up of whatever you may be thinking or trying to convey.
1. Crj 900s coming to Awac from endeavor, not going to happen.
2. Planes are being added to Awac at the expense of envoy/xjt? This is for delta. What are you smoking .
3. Just because Awac pays there pilots more doesn't mean they are a higher cost operator, there are a TON of other costs involved.

Werent you saying like 2-3 months ago to run away from Awac? Something along the lines of the 200's are going away, awacs future is over? Hmmm someone should be eating their words.

How about people make there own decsions on where to work, what do you value? Contract, pay, growth, commute etc etc.

8ballfreight
11-23-2014, 04:54 PM
Gojet wasn't formed in 2007.
What are you attempting to communicate?

TeamRamRod
11-23-2014, 05:00 PM
Gojet wasn't formed in 2007.
What are you attempting to communicate?

'04 typo. I'm communicating that TSA doesn't belong in the same group as PSA and PDT when you're all talking about pilots taking concessions to pick up flying.

idlethrust
11-23-2014, 05:26 PM
First of all your post is a verbal throw up of whatever you may be thinking or trying to convey.
1. Crj 900s coming to Awac from endeavor, not going to happen.
2. Planes are being added to Awac at the expense of envoy/xjt? This is for delta. What are you smoking .
3. Just because Awac pays there pilots more doesn't mean they are a higher cost operator, there are a TON of other costs involved.

Werent you saying like 2-3 months ago to run away from Awac? Something along the lines of the 200's are going away, awacs future is over? Hmmm someone should be eating their words.

How about people make there own decsions on where to work, what do you value? Contract, pay, growth, commute etc etc.
What are you smoking? Tsa planes are coming from envoy and the Awac 200s are coming from xjt.

SevereClear1
11-23-2014, 05:28 PM
What are you smoking? Tsa planes are coming from envoy and the Awac 200s are coming from xjt.
Awacs are coming from endeavor not xjet.

idlethrust
11-23-2014, 05:28 PM
First of all your post is a verbal throw up of whatever you may be thinking or trying to convey.
1. Crj 900s coming to Awac from endeavor, not going to happen.
2. Planes are being added to Awac at the expense of envoy/xjt? This is for delta. What are you smoking .
3. Just because Awac pays there pilots more doesn't mean they are a higher cost operator, there are a TON of other costs involved.

Werent you saying like 2-3 months ago to run away from Awac? Something along the lines of the 200's are going away, awacs future is over? Hmmm someone should be eating their words.

How about people make there own decsions on where to work, what do you value? Contract, pay, growth, commute etc etc.
Correction.Awac planes are coming from endeavor. I will self correct myself on that. And if endeavor can't properly staff the 81 crj 900s I heard Awac is in line to get a few, if the 200 flying goes well

supercub70
11-23-2014, 06:51 PM
Correction.Awac planes are coming from endeavor. I will self correct myself on that. And if endeavor can't properly staff the 81 crj 900s I heard Awac is in line to get a few, if the 200 flying goes well

Over the past couple months you've been saying AWAC is all but finished and now you're saying they may get 900's? I don't think your past Intel was very solid so excuse me for not paying much attention to your latest info.

theHub
11-24-2014, 02:53 AM
Quote:





Originally Posted by 8ballfreight


Gojet wasn't formed in 2007.
What are you attempting to communicate?




'04 … typo. I'm communicating that TSA doesn't belong in the same group as PSA and PDT when you're all talking about pilots taking concessions to pick up flying.

PDT didn't take concessions to pick up flying. Their contract improved over what they previously had.

el jefe
11-24-2014, 03:53 AM
I don't think anything good will come out of this thread other than a bunch of butthurt.

idlethrust
11-24-2014, 06:00 AM
Over the past couple months you've been saying AWAC is all but finished and now you're saying they may get 900's? I don't think your past Intel was very solid so excuse me for not paying much attention to your latest info.
I still think Awac is in for a shaky ride.If airways dosent extend the 200 flying they will be reduced to just the 26 delta planes.There are 71 planes that hang in the balance there.Im glad to see that something good is happening for Awac finally but with the way delta Plays musical chairs with its flying I'd be cautious to say the least.Just ask anyone at Xjt or endeavor. Enjoy your ride there, wait it out and see what transpires.
And as far as sources go, we all have sources for information and just like everthing else , some are better than others as we all know.

pitchtrim
11-24-2014, 08:10 AM
I've always been under the impression awac will extend the contract as long as they want to stay in business, which as of this week is another 6 years minimum. The 900s would have come here from endeavor had they liquidated during their bankruptcy vote. Perhaps if endeavor can't staff them they still will but that's purely speculation at this point.

l2flare
11-24-2014, 08:15 AM
I still think Awac is in for a shaky ride.If airways dosent extend the 200 flying they will be reduced to just the 26 delta planes.There are 71 planes that hang in the balance there.Im glad to see that something good is happening for Awac finally but with the way delta Plays musical chairs with its flying I'd be cautious to say the least.Just ask anyone at Xjt or endeavor. Enjoy your ride there, wait it out and see what transpires.
And as far as sources go, we all have sources for information and just like everthing else , some are better than others as we all know.

Obv the fleet increase from 71-97 doesn't matter if we shrink to 26 a year from now. However, what the Delta deal shows, at least for me is that the big six (Awac's owners) are interested in continuing on in the airline business for at least the next 6 years.

The real sword of Damocles was that the lack of news was an indication that they just wanted to pack all their money and move on, and this really removes that as a threat.

Could we lose all airways flying at the end of next year? maybe, but i think its highly unlikely that they have 0 plan in place for 71 rjs.

TLDR; If snow white and the six dwarfs want to keep flying they probably know a way to do it.

Ps- some of the posts in this thread have confirmed that yes, crack is indeed whack.

BoilerUP
11-24-2014, 08:16 AM
I thought an extension of the 71 200s beyond 2015 was at the option of AWAC, not AAG...?

l2flare
11-24-2014, 08:49 AM
I thought an extension of the 71 200s beyond 2015 was at the option of AWAC, not AAG...?

supposedly this is the case. However it has never been stated by an official source, just repeated on several occasions by higher ups. Also the terms of the extension and the number of a/c are complete unknowns.

BE19Pilot
11-24-2014, 09:32 AM
The timing of any CRJ-900 flying at AWAC will likely be coincident with a contract negotiation process. Unfortunately, they will be the next group on the 12/4 chopping block...

saab2000
11-24-2014, 09:36 AM
I thought an extension of the 71 200s beyond 2015 was at the option of AWAC, not AAG...?

I believe this to be correct, at least for two years, assuming performance metrics are met. And AFAIK, they have been met.

I don't think US Airways/AA can easily replace the lift that AWAC provides without reducing frequency and possibly bringing some of the flying back in-house. This doesn't only apply to AWAC. It would, of course apply to all contract carriers. They're no longer as expendable as they were 5 or 6 years ago. There will be some casualties. We've seen that with Comair, but I don't think they can do that indefinitely.

This will slowly become an industry-wide issue.

AWAC is staffing OK now but it's uncertain how long that will remain the case. There are still more pilots retiring across the industry than the FAA is issuing new certificates.

tom11011
11-24-2014, 01:32 PM
It's a shell game right now. A year from now none of this will matter. A few regionals will have closed up shop but the pilot group as a whole will be better off. 2015 will welcome over 1000 new pilots to the major leagues.

nuball5
11-25-2014, 07:35 AM
Im glad to see that something good is happening for Awac finally


That's quite the change from a few months ago when you thought AWAC was going out of business and you seemed very happy about it.:rolleyes:

Silver02ex
11-25-2014, 09:19 AM
From what my friend at Endeavor told me is that if they can't staff the 81 crj 900s properly some of it will probably be dealt to Awac as well if the 200 flying goes well . Endeavor is having a very difficult time staffing right now I guess.

I doubt AW will see any 900's from Endeavor. The only reason we can't staff our airplane right now is because FO's are leaving for PSA and Compass. Once those 2 company get the pilots they need. The amount of FO's leaving will slow down. I have no doubt that we will be able to staff the 81 airplanes.

Timma
11-25-2014, 07:30 PM
I doubt AW will see any 900's from Endeavor. The only reason we can't staff our airplane right now is because FO's are leaving for PSA and Compass. Once those 2 company get the pilots they need. The amount of FO's leaving will slow down. I have no doubt that we will be able to staff the 81 airplanes.

Hmmm.. Really?

Silver02ex
11-25-2014, 08:33 PM
Hmmm.. Really?

We knew that we are going to be down to 81 airplanes. We knew the 200's were going away. I'm getting positive space from my home airport to my base just to pick up trips at 200% pay. I don't even bother calling honest anymore. I would just call up CS and tell them I need to positive space and it's done. We just cancel a vacancy / displacement because we can't staff the holiday flying. If we can't stff the 900's I can see them going away. By the time we are down to 81 airplane, i think we will be better saff. The company and Union just signed a TA for a huge bonus for the pilots. Seems odd doesn't it for a TA if they want to move the 900's out of Endeavor.

YouDontKnowMe
11-26-2014, 08:05 AM
The company and Union just signed a TA for a huge bonus for the pilots.


"Huge bonus" is a relative term. According to the Endeavor MEC release, the "huge bonus" will bring Endeavor captain pay UP to Delta Connection average captain pay. If a "huge bonus" is needed to bring pay up to average then you've got "huge problems" with your contract.

Silver02ex
11-26-2014, 10:01 AM
"Huge bonus" is a relative term. According to the Endeavor MEC release, the "huge bonus" will bring Endeavor captain pay UP to Delta Connection average captain pay. If a "huge bonus" is needed to bring pay up to average then you've got "huge problems" with your contract.

It's a BK contract. What did you expect? This bonus will be more than double the signing bonus I had from the last 2 contract. No matter what good comes around, there's always going to be someone ****ing on someone's situation. This is still an improvement to what we currently have.

iahflyr
11-28-2014, 06:29 AM
We knew that we are going to be down to 81 airplanes. We knew the 200's were going away.

How many planes does Endeavor currently have?



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