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View Full Version : SkyWest Pilots Sack Up (kinda)


Redundant Guy
05-09-2015, 05:45 AM
They say, "Not Enough."
61% to 39%. 86% participation.


CLT Guy
05-09-2015, 05:49 AM
They say, "Not Enough."
61% to 39%. 86% participation.



Over 1100 voted yes. Sad.

WrongCareer
05-09-2015, 05:55 AM
Been in their jumpseat a bunch of times. Always super friendly and a happy bunch. Congrats guys. I cant figure out why an airline like skywest with no union and a better contract than PSA,PDT,ENVR,ENVY says no and those union carriers bend over. I'm sure they all had reason to bend over right? Like "they were going to shut us down" or something?


babs
05-09-2015, 05:59 AM
Over 1100 voted yes. Sad.

Does anyone else find this funny coming from a PSA guy? What a hypocrite.

CLT Guy
05-09-2015, 06:04 AM
Does anyone else find this funny coming from a PSA guy? What a hypocrite.

First of all, I didn't work at PSA when the vote happened, but...

How many PSA guys voted yes? Answer: just over 100.

How many SkyWest guys voted yes? Answer: Over 1000

Also, PSA voted "NO" twice!

This vote was just symbolic for SkyWest anyways, because there is no union and the company can just do it anyway.

Big difference.

Tacos
05-09-2015, 06:12 AM
First of all, I didn't work at PSA when the vote happened, but...

How many PSA guys voted yes? Answer: just over 100.

How many SkyWest guys voted yes? Answer: Over 1000

Also, PSA voted "NO" twice!

This vote was just symbolic for SkyWest anyways, because there is no union and the company can just do it anyway.

Big difference.

You went to work for PSA, same thing as voting yes. Sad!

Whiplash6
05-09-2015, 06:12 AM
Going to work for PSA for the rates they pay is just like voting yes for the rates.

CLT Guy
05-09-2015, 06:21 AM
Going to work for PSA for the rates they pay is just like voting yes for the rates.

18 months with the company and you are making $68,000 a year. If you are prior 121, you can make that in 6 months. Lets see SkyWest do that. We have comparable salaries, but a much better quality of life. We have the best schedule flexibility anywhere.

Jet87
05-09-2015, 06:26 AM
This thread stayed on topic for the first post only. Good job guys.

CLT Guy
05-09-2015, 06:28 AM
This thread stayed on topic for the first post only. Good job guys.

Just commenting that SkyWest pilots are celebrating that they only have 1100 pilots that voted yes. That is sad.

IBPilot
05-09-2015, 06:43 AM
Just commenting that SkyWest pilots are celebrating that they only have 1100 pilots that voted yes. That is sad.

527 posts since December 2014?? get laid dude…..oh wait you can't you're always on APC praising PSA!

Jet87
05-09-2015, 07:00 AM
Just commenting that SkyWest pilots are celebrating that they only have 1100 pilots that voted yes. That is sad.

Where is this celebration at? I haven't seen or heard about any of it.

Justrun
05-09-2015, 07:21 AM
You went to work for PSA, same thing as voting yes. Sad!

Agreed. It is all about making themselves feel better. Going there is facilitating their agenda. Good job Skywest guys. Not enough!

Whiplash6
05-09-2015, 07:27 AM
18 months with the company and you are making $68,000 a year. If you are prior 121, you can make that in 6 months. Lets see SkyWest do that. We have comparable salaries, but a much better quality of life. We have the best schedule flexibility anywhere.

That's at captain pay and among the lowest in the industry. Your outlook is severely flawed.

Justrun
05-09-2015, 07:37 AM
18 months with the company and you are making $68,000 a year. If you are prior 121, you can make that in 6 months. Lets see SkyWest do that. We have comparable salaries, but a much better quality of life. We have the best schedule flexibility anywhere.

That is an if. IF you upgrade in 18 months you can make $68k. However using your logic wouldn't it have been better if you could have made 45+ first year and 80+ when you upgrade. This is what places like Skywest are trying to do. Even ******* contract central RAH said not enough.

pagey
05-09-2015, 08:31 AM
Been in their jumpseat a bunch of times. Always super friendly and a happy bunch. Congrats guys. I cant figure out why an airline like skywest with no union and a better contract than PSA,PDT,ENVR,ENVY says no and those union carriers bend over. I'm sure they all had reason to bend over right? Like "they were going to shut us down" or something?

You just compared Skywest to 4 wholly owned carriers.

The dynamics of contract negotiations between Skywest and the above mentioned carriers could not be more different.

Why would a privately owned company shut itself down....

Genius first post, bravo.

pagey
05-09-2015, 08:37 AM
That's at captain pay and among the lowest in the industry. Your outlook is severely flawed.

The captain pay is well above average until year 12.

SayAlt
05-09-2015, 08:47 AM
They say, "Not Enough."
61% to 39%. 86% participation.



So, it was a 60-40 vote....or 3 nay's for every 2 yeas....with 9 out of every 10 participating.

I'd like to hear from one (or more) of the 2/5ths. What was your reasoning?

And yes, you are entitled to your vote and opinion as you see fit. I will defend that. I'd like to understand a "yes" perspective in this vote. The "no" vote is, for me, easy to understand.

JetDoc
05-09-2015, 08:57 AM
Been in their jumpseat a bunch of times. Always super friendly and a happy bunch. Congrats guys. I cant figure out why an airline like skywest with no union and a better contract than PSA,PDT,ENVR,ENVY says no and those union carriers bend over. I'm sure they all had reason to bend over right? Like "they were going to shut us down" or something?

Just to be perfectly clear, SkyWest has no union, hence no contract. That being said, good job guys and gals.

Waitingformins
05-09-2015, 09:08 AM
Been in their jumpseat a bunch of times. Always super friendly and a happy bunch. Congrats guys. I cant figure out why an airline like skywest with no union and a better contract than PSA,PDT,ENVR,ENVY says no and those union carriers bend over. I'm sure they all had reason to bend over right? Like "they were going to shut us down" or something?
Really, you can't figure out that they are big labor group at a small company, and envoy,pdt,and PSA are smaller than skywest combined, at company 100 times larger. You do understand what a union is? Maybe you can't figure why no one individual person drove to Scot Kirby's house and demanded a raise.

Arty13
05-09-2015, 09:27 AM
Over 1100 voted yes. Sad.

Makes me want to puke.

WesternSkies
05-09-2015, 09:37 AM
Just commenting that SkyWest pilots are celebrating that they only have 1100 pilots that voted yes. That is sad.

1100 pilots voting yes to a meeger pay RAISE that doesn't keep up with inflation is exactly like your company PSA isn't it? :sarcasm: :rolleyes:

CLT GUY is not to be trusted.

FaceBiter
05-09-2015, 09:42 AM
CLTGuy trolling strong today.

Cruz5350
05-09-2015, 09:56 AM
Every SkyWest no voter just did more to better the industry than any self serving person who went to PSA for some quick upgrade crap or voted yes during their negotiations.

SMACFUM
05-09-2015, 10:49 AM
So, it was a 60-40 vote....or 3 nay's for every 2 yeas....with 9 out of every 10 participating.

I'd like to hear from one (or more) of the 2/5ths. What was your reasoning?

And yes, you are entitled to your vote and opinion as you see fit. I will defend that. I'd like to understand a "yes" perspective in this vote. The "no" vote is, for me, easy to understand.

If you talk to almost any line pilot at SKW the biggest gripe everybody has here right now is quality of life issues. Mainly the result of scheduling and flying 90+ hours a month, not being able to drop or trade trips because of no reserve coverage.

This pay package would have gone a long way in improving that specific issue, by attracting new hires to help the staffing issues. More new hires allows for more scheduling flexibility, and that in turn results in better QOL for pilots.

pagey
05-09-2015, 10:50 AM
Every SkyWest no voter just did more to better the industry than any self serving person who went to PSA for some quick upgrade crap or voted yes during their negotiations.

I know, I feel so much better about the industry than I did before the SkyWest vote......Big changes are coming now that they voted no....


:rolleyes:

pete2800
05-09-2015, 10:51 AM
If you talk to almost any line pilot at SKW the biggest gripe everybody has here right now is quality of life issues. Mainly the result of scheduling and flying 90+ hours a month, not being able to drop or trade trips because of no reserve coverage.

This pay package would have gone a long way in improving that specific issue, by attracting new hires to help the staffing issues. More new hires allows for more scheduling flexibility, and that in turn results in better QOL for pilots.

Haha!



Hahahaha!

Is offline
05-09-2015, 10:58 AM
If you talk to almost any line pilot at SKW the biggest gripe everybody has here right now is quality of life issues. Mainly the result of scheduling and flying 90+ hours a month, not being able to drop or trade trips because of no reserve coverage.

This pay package would have gone a long way in improving that specific issue, by attracting new hires to help the staffing issues. More new hires allows for more scheduling flexibility, and that in turn results in better QOL for pilots.

You can't be serious? If you think that pay package is going to have any new hires flocking here you are greatly mistaken. There are places with 5 month upgrade and you think $30/hr is gonna draw them here? Soon it won't matter how much you offer there simply just won't be enough applicants. There was absolutely no QOL improvements in that package, but that's what they will have to address to get something to pass.

FaceBiter
05-09-2015, 11:11 AM
Where did the 1,000 votes come from? It's pretty easy to see. How many guys are on first year pay and would've stood to receive an immediate $6/hr. 500-600? Add in the lifer FO's and kool-aid drinking CA's and I'm shocked it didn't pass.

NVUS
05-09-2015, 11:19 AM
Where did the 1,000 votes come from? It's pretty easy to see. How many guys are on first year pay and would've stood to receive an immediate $6/hr. 500-600? Add in the lifer FO's and kool-aid drinking CA's and I'm shocked it didn't pass.

If they had thrown in a free kale smoothie at the beginning of every flight day, would that have pushed you over to yes? ;)

amcnd
05-09-2015, 11:20 AM
I agree $30 a hour to start is not going to get people lined up at the door. But fast upgrades will... I feel that is coming....

skypilot35
05-09-2015, 11:24 AM
I agree $30 a hour to start is not going to get people lined up at the door. But fast upgrades will... I feel that is coming....

Define fast. If you mean 1 year fast, not any time soon. If you mean 2 to 3 years fast, I'd agree.

Cruz5350
05-09-2015, 11:25 AM
I agree $30 a hour to start is not going to get people lined up at the door. But fast upgrades will... I feel that is coming....

Where are they coming... We're not really growing and attrition will pretty much stay at the same pace we're at now.

skypilot35
05-09-2015, 11:33 AM
Where are they coming... We're not really growing and attrition will pretty much stay at the same pace we're at now.

No growth, but we're not shrinking either. So hiring is keeping up with attrition.

404yxl
05-09-2015, 11:41 AM
I agree $30 a hour to start is not going to get people lined up at the door. But fast upgrades will... I feel that is coming....

I'll assume you're a little naive on how upgrades work.

To upgrade you need 50% of the line pilots, seniority wise, to be below you. That's the basic premise.

If you think a pilot hired today at Skywest will have 50% of the pilots above them leave in the next 2-3 years, you are in for a rude awakening. Skywest will not be growing, so you will not see an artificial bump that PSA, Mesa and Compass are temporarily seeing. More than likely, they will shrink.

You 'can' upgrade before you have 50% of the group below you, but that involves pilots voluntarily bypassing or not having the time. If you start with 0 121 SIC time, chances are a majority of those hired before you will get their 1000 121 SIC time before you do.

On top of that, if you start with 0 121 SIC time, it will take 95% of the pilots at least 1.5 years to accumulate 1000 hours, with a solid majoirty taking at least 2 years. You have to factor in all the time you spend in training, when hired, which can be 2-4 months before you even hit the line. Then you could see a good month or two on reserve and fly as little as 30 hours/month. It is very difficult for the majority of the pilots to fly over 90-95 hours of block every month. Especially over 50% of them. If everyone is trying to do that, good luck.

A lot of insurance companies require that the airlines have their Captains with a minimum of 2500 total time. If you were hired as a restricted ATP, you are looking at having to accumulate up to 1500 hours after starting. There's a good 2-3 years right there.

The only pilots experiencing a "quick upgrade" are those going to regionals from other regionals or 135 PIC jobs who meet the 1000 hour time. On top of that, those regionals that they are going to are adding airplanes which assist in the "quick upgrade".

Skywest is not adding airplanes and more than likely will be downsizing as it rids itself of its smaller fleets for 70 seat aircraft. A good guess would to assume a 3-2 swap. 300 50 seat aircraft for 200 70 seat aircraft. Maybe they can maintain their fleet size, but that would mean the ASA and XJT pilots (Expressjet) will get screwed in the process to subsidize the Skywest pilots. Argue all you want, but that is the only way the Skywest pilots' fleet won't shrink. And I would hardly call that a fair deal.

Pilots who are starting at Skywest with 0 121 time are in for a rude awakening if they think they will see a "quick upgrade". If you luck out and hold it in 2 years, you are looking at a very long time as a Captain reserve, as those above you take upgrades, after they bypassed while waiting to hold a line as a Captain.

WAVIT Inbound
05-09-2015, 11:46 AM
If you talk to almost any line pilot at SKW the biggest gripe everybody has here right now is quality of life issues. Mainly the result of scheduling and flying 90+ hours a month, not being able to drop or trade trips because of no reserve coverage.

This pay package would have gone a long way in improving that specific issue, by attracting new hires to help the staffing issues. More new hires allows for more scheduling flexibility, and that in turn results in better QOL for pilots.


TG is that you? Either that or someone actually bought into this exact rhetoric he has been presenting.

This will not be the case. New hires will not come running. Even of they do it won't help your QOL. Only solid work rules will.

wmupilot85
05-09-2015, 12:04 PM
I'll assume you're a little naive on how upgrades work.

To upgrade you need 50% of the line pilots, seniority wise, to be below you. That's the basic premise.


I disagree. I'd think it's more like 40% of the company below you. Remember, that need line check airman, chief pilots, management pilots, training pilots, etc. Typically, they are all captains. I'd say a good number is close to 6% of a pilot group that fits that category, with another 4% that won't or doesn't want to upgrade.

NVUS
05-09-2015, 12:09 PM
I disagree. I'd think it's more like 40% of the company below you. Remember, that need line check airman, chief pilots, management pilots, training pilots, etc. Typically, they are all captains. I'd say a good number is close to 6% of a pilot group that fits that category, with another 4% that won't or doesn't want to upgrade.

And if they open a new domicile, like...Detroit?

Crazy Canuck
05-09-2015, 12:11 PM
If you talk to almost any line pilot at SKW the biggest gripe everybody has here right now is quality of life issues. Mainly the result of scheduling and flying 90+ hours a month, not being able to drop or trade trips because of no reserve coverage.

This pay package would have gone a long way in improving that specific issue, by attracting new hires to help the staffing issues. More new hires allows for more scheduling flexibility, and that in turn results in better QOL for pilots.
I think he's just presenting the other side of the argument....

I agree that 30 dollars an hour is insufficient

Crazy Canuck
05-09-2015, 12:13 PM
I'll assume you're a little naive on how upgrades work.

To upgrade you need 50% of the line pilots, seniority wise, to be below you. That's the basic premise.

If you think a pilot hired today at Skywest will have 50% of the pilots above them leave in the next 2-3 years, you are in for a rude awakening. Skywest will not be growing, so you will not see an artificial bump that PSA, Mesa and Compass are temporarily seeing. More than likely, they will shrink.

You 'can' upgrade before you have 50% of the group below you, but that involves pilots voluntarily bypassing or not having the time. If you start with 0 121 SIC time, chances are a majority of those hired before you will get their 1000 121 SIC time before you do.

On top of that, if you start with 0 121 SIC time, it will take 95% of the pilots at least 1.5 years to accumulate 1000 hours, with a solid majoirty taking at least 2 years. You have to factor in all the time you spend in training, when hired, which can be 2-4 months before you even hit the line. Then you could see a good month or two on reserve and fly as little as 30 hours/month. It is very difficult for the majority of the pilots to fly over 90-95 hours of block every month. Especially over 50% of them. If everyone is trying to do that, good luck.

A lot of insurance companies require that the airlines have their Captains with a minimum of 2500 total time. If you were hired as a restricted ATP, you are looking at having to accumulate up to 1500 hours after starting. There's a good 2-3 years right there.

The only pilots experiencing a "quick upgrade" are those going to regionals from other regionals or 135 PIC jobs who meet the 1000 hour time. On top of that, those regionals that they are going to are adding airplanes which assist in the "quick upgrade".

Skywest is not adding airplanes and more than likely will be downsizing as it rids itself of its smaller fleets for 70 seat aircraft. A good guess would to assume a 3-2 swap. 300 50 seat aircraft for 200 70 seat aircraft. Maybe they can maintain their fleet size, but that would mean the ASA and XJT pilots (Expressjet) will get screwed in the process to subsidize the Skywest pilots. Argue all you want, but that is the only way the Skywest pilots' fleet won't shrink. And I would hardly call that a fair deal.

Pilots who are starting at Skywest with 0 121 time are in for a rude awakening if they think they will see a "quick upgrade". If you luck out and hold it in 2 years, you are looking at a very long time as a Captain reserve, as those above you take upgrades, after they bypassed while waiting to hold a line as a Captain.

Right, Cuz you're the expert on SkyWests internal affairs, compass-boss.

You cant predict the future. Those that try are more often than not the ones sitting miserably stuck at a stagnant carrier who promised the "quick upgrade" when they got hired.

404yxl
05-09-2015, 12:24 PM
I disagree. I'd think it's more like 40% of the company below you. Remember, that need line check airman, chief pilots, management pilots, training pilots, etc. Typically, they are all captains. I'd say a good number is close to 6% of a pilot group that fits that category, with another 4% that won't or doesn't want to upgrade.

I said you need 50% of the line pilots below you. From there you need to rely on pilots bypassing. Which means those pilots will be senior to you when they upgrade. You also need the company not to shrink. Skywest will be staying the same size or shrinking in the coming years.

Right, Cuz you're the expert on SkyWests internal affairs, compass-boss.

You cant predict the future. Those that try are more often than not the ones sitting miserably stuck at a stagnant carrier who promised the "quick upgrade" when they got hired.

It doesn't take an expert to know that 50% of the pilots in the cockpit are captains and the other 50% are First Officers.

I am sitting very well over at my Compass position. You sound like someone who doesn't want prospective Skywest new hires to know the reality of what they are getting into since you need them to come in below you to make sure you can upgrade.

If the company can't hire enough pilots to fullfil their 50% each seat need, they will shrink. Endeavor history anyone? Current Regional situation anyone?

NVUS
05-09-2015, 12:27 PM
I am sitting very well over at my Compass position. You sound like someone who doesn't want prospective Skywest new hires to know the reality of what they are getting into since you need them to come in below you to make sure you can upgrade.

If the company can't hire enough pilots to fullfil their 50% each seat need, they will shrink. Endeavor history anyone? Current Regional situation anyone?

If the impending pilot shortage of doom is as bad as everyone is claiming, which airline will be able to keep the doors open the longest? Compass or SkyWest?

404yxl
05-09-2015, 12:32 PM
If the impending pilot shortage of doom is as bad as everyone is claiming, which airline will be able to keep the doors open the longest? Compass or SkyWest?
First, there is no pilot shortage. The regionals just are refusing to compensate their piolts appropriately.

If Compass doesn't raise the entire pilot group's compensation up like the Endeavor pilots, they will experience an issue within a year or two. Perhaps by the end of this year. In fact, we are behind the curve this summer.

If Compass (a 70 seat only airline), who will have a max 5 year longevity (few with 7-8) and an average of around 2-3 years will be having issues, You can bet Skywest will have worse issues sooner.

NVUS
05-09-2015, 12:35 PM
First, there is no pilot shortage. The regionals just are refusing to compensate their piolts appropriately.

If Compass doesn't raise the entire pilot group's compensation up like the Endeavor pilots, they will experience an issue within a year or two. Perhaps by the end of this year. In fact, we are behind the curve this summer.

If Compass (a 70 seat only airline), who will have a max 5 year longevity (few with 7-8) and an average of around 2-3 years will be having issues, You can bet Skywest will have worse issues sooner.

Oh good. I think this answer is enough for everyone else to figure out where your head is at. Thanks!

amcnd
05-09-2015, 12:47 PM
SkyWest has hired street captains before.. Well 1 day Captains... (Came into newhire class and asked if anyone wanted a E120 upgrade). We are getting 7 more 200's and i doubt that the E175's are done. Need atleast 50 to break even.. 75+ to start making good money.. But i agree newhire pay isn't the answer. Positive growth and adequate staffing is...

ClickClickBoom
05-09-2015, 12:51 PM
Right, Cuz you're the expert on SkyWests internal affairs, compass-boss.

You cant predict the future. Those that try are more often than not the ones sitting miserably stuck at a stagnant carrier who promised the "quick upgrade" when they got hired.

Not even close FNG, he pretty much nailed it.
Anyone who has spent more than 6 months on reserve at SKYW, will attest, sticking your head into a running self feed wood chipper is preferable to Skywest Reserve. The wood chipper will suck you in and the pain will only be for a moment, Skywest Reserve will chip pieces of your life away, that's why there are 4 year upgrades occurring. Someone hired 4 years ago probably didn't sit a whole lot of reserve and that's why they are willing to try reserve. Add SKYW parking 200s, senior guys upgrading and pushing you back, you will feel the full fury of Anita's SS minions as they scurry around trying to fix/hide their screw ups by using you as cannon fodder.
PHX 200s for AMR are done, BOI is going to blow up for Alaska, tons of 175s. Even with these changes, anyone junior who upgrades into the 175 will just get pushed back to eternal plug status as senior guys upgrade and transition to the upper part of the 175 list.

amcnd
05-09-2015, 12:56 PM
Not even close FNG, he pretty much nailed it.
Anyone who has spent more than 6 months on reserve at SKYW, will attest, sticking your head into a running self feed wood chipper is preferable to Skywest Reserve. The wood chipper will suck you in and the pain will only be for a moment, Skywest Reserve will chip pieces of your life away, that's why there are 4 year upgrades occurring. Someone hired 4 years ago probably didn't sit a whole lot of reserve and that's why they are willing to try reserve. Add SKYW parking 200s, senior guys upgrading and pushing you back, you will feel the full fury of Anita's SS minions as they scurry around trying to fix/hide their screw ups by using you as cannon fodder.
PHX 200s for AMR are done, BOI is going to blow up for Alaska, tons of 175s. Even with these changes, anyone junior who upgrades into the 175 will just get pushed back to eternal plug status as senior guys upgrade and transition to the upper part of the 175 list.

Agreed that SKW reserve is proboly the worst out there...

NVUS
05-09-2015, 01:00 PM
Not even close FNG, he pretty much nailed it.
Anyone who has spent more than 6 months on reserve at SKYW, will attest, sticking your head into a running self feed wood chipper is preferable to Skywest Reserve. The wood chipper will suck you in and the pain will only be for a moment, Skywest Reserve will chip pieces of your life away, that's why there are 4 year upgrades occurring. Someone hired 4 years ago probably didn't sit a whole lot of reserve and that's why they are willing to try reserve. Add SKYW parking 200s, senior guys upgrading and pushing you back, you will feel the full fury of Anita's SS minions as they scurry around trying to fix/hide their screw ups by using you as cannon fodder.
PHX 200s for AMR are done, BOI is going to blow up for Alaska, tons of 175s. Even with these changes, anyone junior who upgrades into the 175 will just get pushed back to eternal plug status as senior guys upgrade and transition to the upper part of the 175 list.

PHX 200s for US Airways is done. But the PHX 200s for AMR are not.

FaceBiter
05-09-2015, 01:05 PM
I heard PHX domicile is going to do the LAX AA flying? And the 900's from PHX are going elsewhere.

FaceBiter
05-09-2015, 01:08 PM
I'll assume you're a little naive on how upgrades work.

To upgrade you need 50% of the line pilots, seniority wise, to be below you. That's the basic premise.

If you think a pilot hired today at Skywest will have 50% of the pilots above them leave in the next 2-3 years, you are in for a rude awakening. Skywest will not be growing, so you will not see an artificial bump that PSA, Mesa and Compass are temporarily seeing. More than likely, they will shrink.

You 'can' upgrade before you have 50% of the group below you, but that involves pilots voluntarily bypassing or not having the time. If you start with 0 121 SIC time, chances are a majority of those hired before you will get their 1000 121 SIC time before you do.

On top of that, if you start with 0 121 SIC time, it will take 95% of the pilots at least 1.5 years to accumulate 1000 hours, with a solid majoirty taking at least 2 years. You have to factor in all the time you spend in training, when hired, which can be 2-4 months before you even hit the line. Then you could see a good month or two on reserve and fly as little as 30 hours/month. It is very difficult for the majority of the pilots to fly over 90-95 hours of block every month. Especially over 50% of them. If everyone is trying to do that, good luck.

A lot of insurance companies require that the airlines have their Captains with a minimum of 2500 total time. If you were hired as a restricted ATP, you are looking at having to accumulate up to 1500 hours after starting. There's a good 2-3 years right there.

The only pilots experiencing a "quick upgrade" are those going to regionals from other regionals or 135 PIC jobs who meet the 1000 hour time. On top of that, those regionals that they are going to are adding airplanes which assist in the "quick upgrade".

Skywest is not adding airplanes and more than likely will be downsizing as it rids itself of its smaller fleets for 70 seat aircraft. A good guess would to assume a 3-2 swap. 300 50 seat aircraft for 200 70 seat aircraft. Maybe they can maintain their fleet size, but that would mean the ASA and XJT pilots (Expressjet) will get screwed in the process to subsidize the Skywest pilots. Argue all you want, but that is the only way the Skywest pilots' fleet won't shrink. And I would hardly call that a fair deal.

Pilots who are starting at Skywest with 0 121 time are in for a rude awakening if they think they will see a "quick upgrade". If you luck out and hold it in 2 years, you are looking at a very long time as a Captain reserve, as those above you take upgrades, after they bypassed while waiting to hold a line as a Captain.

Huh. That's funny.

I just heard CPZ is going to get its first Delta b!tch slap next Feb. I knew pimp daddy d wouldn't put up with those basement numbers for long.

TalkTurkey
05-09-2015, 01:12 PM
I'll assume you're a little naive on how upgrades work.

To upgrade you need 50% of the line pilots, seniority wise, to be below you. That's the basic premise.

If you think a pilot hired today at Skywest will have 50% of the pilots above them leave in the next 2-3 years, you are in for a rude awakening. Skywest will not be growing, so you will not see an artificial bump that PSA, Mesa and Compass are temporarily seeing. More than likely, they will shrink.

You 'can' upgrade before you have 50% of the group below you, but that involves pilots voluntarily bypassing or not having the time. If you start with 0 121 SIC time, chances are a majority of those hired before you will get their 1000 121 SIC time before you do.

On top of that, if you start with 0 121 SIC time, it will take 95% of the pilots at least 1.5 years to accumulate 1000 hours, with a solid majoirty taking at least 2 years. You have to factor in all the time you spend in training, when hired, which can be 2-4 months before you even hit the line. Then you could see a good month or two on reserve and fly as little as 30 hours/month. It is very difficult for the majority of the pilots to fly over 90-95 hours of block every month. Especially over 50% of them. If everyone is trying to do that, good luck.

A lot of insurance companies require that the airlines have their Captains with a minimum of 2500 total time. If you were hired as a restricted ATP, you are looking at having to accumulate up to 1500 hours after starting. There's a good 2-3 years right there.

The only pilots experiencing a "quick upgrade" are those going to regionals from other regionals or 135 PIC jobs who meet the 1000 hour time. On top of that, those regionals that they are going to are adding airplanes which assist in the "quick upgrade".

Skywest is not adding airplanes and more than likely will be downsizing as it rids itself of its smaller fleets for 70 seat aircraft. A good guess would to assume a 3-2 swap. 300 50 seat aircraft for 200 70 seat aircraft. Maybe they can maintain their fleet size, but that would mean the ASA and XJT pilots (Expressjet) will get screwed in the process to subsidize the Skywest pilots. Argue all you want, but that is the only way the Skywest pilots' fleet won't shrink. And I would hardly call that a fair deal.

Pilots who are starting at Skywest with 0 121 time are in for a rude awakening if they think they will see a "quick upgrade". If you luck out and hold it in 2 years, you are looking at a very long time as a Captain reserve, as those above you take upgrades, after they bypassed while waiting to hold a line as a Captain.

Hey Bumwipe. Why don't you get your crystal ball out and tell us when skywest will start parking their 50-seaters. You seem to know all these details with other carriers.

TalkTurkey
05-09-2015, 01:19 PM
First, there is no pilot shortage. The regionals just are refusing to compensate their piolts appropriately.

If Compass doesn't raise the entire pilot group's compensation up like the Endeavor pilots, they will experience an issue within a year or two. Perhaps by the end of this year. In fact, we are behind the curve this summer.

If Compass (a 70 seat only airline), who will have a max 5 year longevity (few with 7-8) and an average of around 2-3 years will be having issues, You can bet Skywest will have worse issues sooner.

Hey 404xsmunit, Compass is a no-man's-land airline. You have a finite schedule of growth. It will stop real quick and then you'll all be regional lifers.

Utah
05-09-2015, 01:21 PM
I said you need 50% of the line pilots below you. From there you need to rely on pilots bypassing. Which means those pilots will be senior to you when they upgrade. You also need the company not to shrink. Skywest will be staying the same size or shrinking in the coming years.



It doesn't take an expert to know that 50% of the pilots in the cockpit are captains and the other 50% are First Officers.

I am sitting very well over at my Compass position. You sound like someone who doesn't want prospective Skywest new hires to know the reality of what they are getting into since you need them to come in below you to make sure you can upgrade.

If the company can't hire enough pilots to fullfil their 50% each seat need, they will shrink. Endeavor history anyone? Current Regional situation anyone?

You're not even close with your numbers. It's never taken anywhere near 50% on the list to hold captain at SkyWest. Typically around 65-70%. Junior captain is around #2300 out of #3500. 500+ FOs could hold captain, but haven't bid it (or at least bid a domicile that they could hold). Things work differently here versus airlines with only a couple of domiciles.

Nearly 2/3rds of the FOs in SLC can hold captain in MSP or ORD. ORD 175 is the junior airplane as well.

FaceBiter
05-09-2015, 01:28 PM
At least AlaskaBound can go a few rounds, this 404 clown is just a total homer.

spaaks
05-09-2015, 01:33 PM
you went to work for psa, same thing as voting yes. Sad!

exactly!!!

TalkTurkey
05-09-2015, 02:10 PM
At least AlaskaBound can go a few rounds, this 404 clown is just a total homer.

It would not surprise me if 404hore and AlaskaHound were one in the same.

AlaskaBound
05-09-2015, 02:50 PM
It would not surprise me if 404hore and AlaskaHound were one in the same.

Huh did someone say my name? Keep it classy TallTurkey. When ya gotta resort to name calling it makes it very clear who the immature one is. Too bad SkyWest pilots have guy coming along tainting the SkyWest board. Probably isn't even a pilot... Wannabe pilots are all over APC.

Btw, good job on voting no on the recent pay package proposal. I knew I liked you guys for a reason. Now is the time to get what you deserve. You have all the leverage. You deserve more.

FaceBiter
05-09-2015, 03:08 PM
It would not surprise me if 404hore and AlaskaHound were one in the same.

Naw, AB can take it and dish it. I like that. 404 is just full retard.

Avroman
05-09-2015, 03:11 PM
And if they open a new domicile, like...Detroit?

The way the Delta pilots have been talking about DTW, it may be looking a lot more like CVG in the near future:(

NVUS
05-09-2015, 03:23 PM
The way the Delta pilots have been talking about DTW, it may be looking a lot more like CVG in the near future:(

Well, the reasoning remains the same. The newer base would probably open up the possibility for lower seniority FOs to upgrade. Are we talking major movement? No, of course not.

TalkTurkey
05-09-2015, 03:58 PM
Huh did someone say my name? Keep it classy TallTurkey. When ya gotta resort to name calling it makes it very clear who the immature one is. Too bad SkyWest pilots have guy coming along tainting the SkyWest board. Probably isn't even a pilot... Wannabe pilots are all over APC.

Btw, good job on voting no on the recent pay package proposal. I knew I liked you guys for a reason. Now is the time to get what you deserve. You have all the leverage. You deserve more.

Fair enough. When bigotry prevails to condescend upon an entire pilot group and the presumptions of our livelihoods, I find it appropriate to exhibit a prose whupping of tail. Don't you find?

Jet87
05-09-2015, 04:16 PM
I heard PHX domicile is going to do the LAX AA flying? And the 900's from PHX are going elsewhere.

The US Air 900s are going into the Delta system, and will probably be announced when they announce the other new 19, 76 seat airplanes for Delta.

NVUS
05-09-2015, 04:21 PM
The US Air 900s are going into the Delta system, and will probably be announced when they announce the other new 19, 76 seat airplanes for Delta.

Shhhhh! ;)

Jet87
05-09-2015, 05:38 PM
Shhhhh! ;)

Oh sorry, I forgot that APC is for rumors only, not facts!

Systemized
05-09-2015, 05:47 PM
PHX 200s for US Airways is done. But the PHX 200s for AMR are not.

NVUS, are you the expect on skywest logistics?

If I'm not mistaken, that's 10 crj200s in PHX for usair. Is the contract up with no renewal?

I understand skywest operates anther 12 200s for American based in LAX and ORD, is this correct?

I think ASA(expressjet) is operating 11 200s out of DFW.

FaceBiter
05-09-2015, 05:55 PM
Something is happening. Involving PHX, LAX and DTW.

NVUS
05-09-2015, 06:03 PM
NVUS, are you the expect on skywest logistics?

If I'm not mistaken, that's 10 crj200s in PHX for usair. Is the contract up with no renewal?

I understand skywest operates anther 12 200s for American based in LAX and ORD, is this correct?

I think ASA(expressjet) is operating 11 200s out of DFW.

15 aircraft in PHX, four 900s and ten 200s with one spare 200.

18 200s for AA, 12 in LAX and one spare, 4 in ORD and one spare.

I actually can't speculate on future operations, I probably already said too much in an earlier post. As for ExpressJet, I think they operate 15 200s (one spare) in DFW, and I think 14 ERJs when all aircraft are finally delivered.

Jet87
05-09-2015, 06:23 PM
Something is happening. Involving PHX, LAX and DTW.

There were talks about opening a DTW base but the company realized we need to staff our current bases (MSP) before we go opening new ones.

Systemized
05-09-2015, 06:44 PM
15 aircraft in PHX, four 900s and ten 200s with one spare 200.

18 200s for AA, 12 in LAX and one spare, 4 in ORD and one spare.

I actually can't speculate on future operations, I probably already said too much in an earlier post. As for ExpressJet, I think they operate 15 200s (one spare) in DFW, and I think 14 ERJs when all aircraft are finally delivered.

I think some of those aircraft you mentioned are pro-rate agreements and not CPAs. Maybe the ORD planes are pro-rate, not that it matters. How does the marketing, ticket sales and route structure work with the pro-rate agreements?

NVUS
05-09-2015, 06:54 PM
I think some of those aircraft you mentioned are pro-rate agreements and not CPAs. Maybe the ORD planes are pro-rate, not that it matters. How does the marketing, ticket sales and route structure work with the pro-rate agreements?

The ORD AA flying is complete pro-rate or at risk flying. The ticketing is handled by AA, and I belive the ticket prices are set by SkyWest and the marketing and route analysis is all conducted by SkyWest.

This is how a lot of these pro-rate markets come to be: http://www.sheridanmedia.com/news/skywest-considers-providing-sheridan-county-air-service77771

Da40Pilot
05-09-2015, 08:01 PM
What was the vote for?

FaceBiter
05-09-2015, 08:16 PM
What was the vote for?

Yer mom....

Da40Pilot
05-09-2015, 08:54 PM
Yer mom....

LOL! How are you, toolbag?

WrongCareer
05-09-2015, 09:12 PM
Oh GREAT!!!
Some non union shop with the best rates in the crappy regional industry declined a pay raise (small one) and "union" airlines are ****ed off. Classic. In any world nice job skyw on not taking a small raise. Is there anyway skyw can drop to a 4/12 payscale and join the club?. Sheeez you skyw guys and gals!, get on board and take some concessions like the rest of us! Please ride our "coat tails" in our concessions, please ride our "coat tails" in our 4/12!!, please ride our coat tails in our unqualified flow though pilots!!, please ride our "coat tails" in our 2% donations to fat guys with mustaches!! Get on board and join the real pilots!!

FaceBiter
05-09-2015, 09:48 PM
I think we need to start "riding ALPA coattails" and vote in some concessions for more fancy 700's or ejetttttttttz. Oh man ALPA is so great they totally protect the regional pilots interest.

FaceBiter
05-09-2015, 09:51 PM
LOL! How are you, toolbag?

I'm good bruh. Hearing CPZ is about to get donkey punched by Daddy D. What say you? I'll take your answer off da air.

Window_Seat
05-09-2015, 10:02 PM
You just compared Skywest to 4 wholly owned carriers.

The dynamics of contract negotiations between Skywest and the above mentioned carriers could not be more different.

Why would a privately owned company shut itself down....

Genius first post, bravo.

Sun Country chairman threatens to shut down airline (http://www.kare11.com/story/life/family/take-kare/money/2015/05/07/sun-country-chairman-threatens-to-shut-down-airline/70983152/)

********** id**t

snippercr
05-09-2015, 10:07 PM
The ORD AA flying is complete pro-rate or at risk flying. The ticketing is handled by AA, and I belive the ticket prices are set by SkyWest and the marketing and route analysis is all conducted by SkyWest.

This is how a lot of these pro-rate markets come to be: SkyWest Considers Providing Sheridan Air Service | SheridanMedia.com (http://www.sheridanmedia.com/news/skywest-considers-providing-sheridan-county-air-service77771)

Not quite. Ticket and price is all handled by AAG (or who ever is the mainline marketing carrier). That is how the FFD works. The mainline carrier's own marketing department determines the schedules, tickets, equipment, and carrier to be flown.

Skywest may determine if a contract is profitable and to accept or reject it but the actual ticketing and market analysis is done by the carrier, for instance AA Marketing and Rev Management determines if they should put a 737 or E175 on a route.

ICT, MKE and YUL were all former envoy routes too.

NVUS
05-09-2015, 10:39 PM
duplicate, kale smoothies on the house

NVUS
05-09-2015, 10:48 PM
Every flight SkyWest does for American in ORD is an at risk flight, I don't know how to say it to you in any simpler terms. I know exactly how FFD works, and none of those flights are FFD. SkyWest flies something like 50 unique city pairs totally at their own risk. They set the price, they do the marketing and advertising and their mainline partner handles the reservations/ticketing and the connection status.

Trust me when I tell you that every single flight SkyWest does as American Eagle in or out of ORD is completely pro-rate/at-risk flying and not FFD. And they are just four of the 50-some unique city pairs they do that with. The entire AirTran operation in MKE was the same exact thing. AirTran loved it. Zero risk for them and nothing but reward on a steady cut of the sales. They just hired a guy a few months ago whose entire job is to strengthen current and find further lucrative pro-rate markets to operate.

WesternSkies
05-09-2015, 11:09 PM
Not quite. Ticket and price is all handled by AAG (or who ever is the mainline marketing carrier). That is how the FFD works. The mainline carrier's own marketing department determines the schedules, tickets, equipment, and carrier to be flown.

Skywest may determine if a contract is profitable and to accept or reject it but the actual ticketing and market analysis is done by the carrier, for instance AA Marketing and Rev Management determines if they should put a 737 or E175 on a route.

ICT, MKE and YUL were all former envoy routes too.

Thanks for playing.

NVUS
05-09-2015, 11:10 PM
Straight from the latest 10-K filing: The remainder of our passenger revenues during the year ended December 31, 2014 related to pro-rate flights for Delta, United or American, where we controlled scheduling, ticketing, pricing and seat inventories, and shared revenues with Delta, United or American according to pro-rate formulas.

Check Complete
05-09-2015, 11:11 PM
Trust me when I tell you that every single flight SkyWest does as American Eagle in or out of ORD is completely pro-rate/at-risk flying and not FFD. And they are just four of the 50-some unique city pairs they do that with. The entire AirTran operation in MKE was the same exact thing. AirTran loved it. Zero risk for them and nothing but reward on a steady cut of the sales. They just hired a guy a few months ago whose entire job is to strengthen current and find further lucrative pro-rate markets to operate.

You do realize that Air Trans is long dead and gone " Mr. Skywest-Koolaid-Over-Doser"?

I'm guessing you're a yes voter too?
Are you SGU based?

NVUS
05-09-2015, 11:14 PM
You do realize that Air Trans is long dead and gone " Mr. Skywest-Koolaid-Over-Doser"?

I'm guessing you're a yes voter too?
Are you SGU based?

Yes, I know. It was an example. And I dont see why the rest of it matters in relation to this subject

Check Complete
05-09-2015, 11:36 PM
Yes, I know. It was an example. And I dont see why the rest of it matters in relation to this subject

My guess is that you're an almost " management level" person (or are one) that is trying to give off this is how all SkyWest pilots feel. When really most of the "real SkyWest" pilots can see this place is running on the brink of melt down.

Or, you're a troll?

SMACFUM
05-10-2015, 03:30 AM
Well, it looks like the SkyWest thread has finally become just like every other thread here. A pis$!ng and d!ck measuring contest. You guys call yourselfs professional airline pilots?!?

Nevets
05-10-2015, 03:35 AM
Sun Country chairman threatens to shut down airline (http://www.kare11.com/story/life/family/take-kare/money/2015/05/07/sun-country-chairman-threatens-to-shut-down-airline/70983152/)



********** id**t


I pretty sure he was referring to management shutting its own airline down, NOT the pilots going on a lawful strike like the Spirit pilots did not too long ago. Delta and American management can easily shut down their wholly owned regional carrier and shift the flying. That's the loss of leverage to the pilots. And hence why you see those pilot groups cave and none of the others doing the same.

pagey
05-10-2015, 05:34 AM
Sun Country chairman threatens to shut down airline (http://www.kare11.com/story/life/family/take-kare/money/2015/05/07/sun-country-chairman-threatens-to-shut-down-airline/70983152/)

********** id**t

Lol. I'm an idiot? This was clearly a bargaining tactic which the union quickly dismissed as posturing.

Try again. More cussing next time will probably make your argument more believable :confused:

404yxl
05-10-2015, 03:57 PM
Huh. That's funny.

I just heard CPZ is going to get its first Delta b!tch slap next Feb. I knew pimp daddy d wouldn't put up with those basement numbers for long.

If Compass is struggling to staff with a massive top end attrition and 50% growth, I would be very concerned at regionals that have 50 seat aircraft that will need to get parked.

404yxl
05-10-2015, 03:58 PM
Not even close FNG, he pretty much nailed it.
Anyone who has spent more than 6 months on reserve at SKYW, will attest, sticking your head into a running self feed wood chipper is preferable to Skywest Reserve. The wood chipper will suck you in and the pain will only be for a moment, Skywest Reserve will chip pieces of your life away, that's why there are 4 year upgrades occurring. Someone hired 4 years ago probably didn't sit a whole lot of reserve and that's why they are willing to try reserve. Add SKYW parking 200s, senior guys upgrading and pushing you back, you will feel the full fury of Anita's SS minions as they scurry around trying to fix/hide their screw ups by using you as cannon fodder.
PHX 200s for AMR are done, BOI is going to blow up for Alaska, tons of 175s. Even with these changes, anyone junior who upgrades into the 175 will just get pushed back to eternal plug status as senior guys upgrade and transition to the upper part of the 175 list.

A lot of angry Skywest pilots/Skywest recruiters on here that really don't want the reality of the situation out there. Just look at all the immature/childish remarks below.

Hey Bumwipe. Why don't you get your crystal ball out and tell us when skywest will start parking their 50-seaters. You seem to know all these details with other carriers.

Hey 404xsmunit, Compass is a no-man's-land airline. You have a finite schedule of growth. It will stop real quick and then you'll all be regional lifers.

hey 404xldouchebag, are you finally not bashing endeavor's retention bonus for once? Wow, losing your edge it appears. Are you in the closet about being at Compost? Wish you were at another regional instead of worrying about getting to the majors? I bet at the interview you will start telling HR what their own business will be doing in 1 to 2 years. Nice going, blatherskite.

It would not surprise me if 404hore and AlaskaHound were one in the same.

Naw, AB can take it and dish it. I like that. 404 is just full retard.

A lot of mature responses boys.

Crazy Canuck
05-10-2015, 04:02 PM
A lot of angry Skywest pilots/Skywest recruiters on here that really don't want the reality of the situation out there. Just look at all the immature/childish remarks below.













A lot of mature responses boys.


LOL cuz you're the king of maturity!

404yxl
05-10-2015, 04:03 PM
LOL cuz you're the king of maturity!

There's nothing immature stating the facts of the industry. Calling someone grade school names because you're angry at hearing those facts is immature.

WhoCares
05-10-2015, 05:00 PM
There's nothing immature stating the facts of the industry. Calling someone grade school names because you're angry at hearing those facts is immature.

Fact is four of the five quotes your posted aren't from a SkyWest pilot.





.

Nevets
05-10-2015, 05:29 PM
Well I can attest to the maturity level here as well. Although lately it hasn't been directed towards me.

UAL T38 Phlyer
05-25-2015, 04:02 PM
Attention, EVERYONE.

I'm sick of the Flaming/Disguised language/Immature behavior here.

No warnings from me. Violate the Terms of Use: at least a 3-day ban.

CAirBear
05-25-2015, 04:36 PM
Attention, EVERYONE.

I'm sick of the Flaming/Disguised language/Immature behavior here.

No warnings from me. Violate the Terms of Use: at least a 3-day ban.

Wow! Is this actually happening right now? A Mod who is not going to allow the BS? Amazing!

I don't know *** has gotten into this place (maybe nothing - this is status quo) lately, but it's ridiculously bad. Can't count the number of new PSA threads, the past couple weeks, that are nothing but BS. Never mind a vast majority of others becoming derailed after the 3rd post.

Kuddos to you. P.S. Get the other mods onboard.

I spend a vast majority of my time, now, at the Majors threads. It's 1000% difference in maturity and professionalism between the two.

WhoCares
05-26-2015, 10:39 AM
Attention, EVERYONE.

I'm sick of the Flaming/Disguised language/Immature behavior here.

No warnings from me. Violate the Terms of Use: at least a 3-day ban.

Pretty sure the thread was dead over two weeks ago. Why not just lock it and let it die instead of threat bumping it?





.

DOGIII
05-26-2015, 11:03 AM
I spend a vast majority of my time, now, at the Majors threads. It's 1000% difference in maturity and professionalism between the two.


I would hope that if you were to pay the resident APC regional trolls mainline pay, they too might suddenly become well mannered upstanding citizens that can communicate effectively on the boards. I hate what it has become down here lately, but I also dislike external condescending approaches from pilots who are no longer in the eye of the storm and wonder why we all can't just get along.