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Lantern X
07-23-2015, 09:44 PM

I'm looking for specific arguments (Pro and Con) about a subject that is getting closer to becoming very real for me personally. I've selected this forum given the nature of what appears to be the majority interest, airline pilots. More specifically, pilots that have routine multi-engine turbine flight experience in class bravo airspace. The reasons will become clearly shortly.

I am approaching decision time (sometime within 2016) on the purchase of an aircraft for both business and personal use. Given the range and mission requirements, I've already ruled out light twins and most turbo-props with only one or two exceptions (Pilatus and Beechcraft). Most of my homework has been done on the VLJ market and I've narrowed that down to essentially three (3) manufacturers and three aircraft in particular (Phenom 300, CJ4 and PC-24). Here's my Dalai Lama.

Embraer, has completed the RTM of its Legacy 450. I know the Legacy 450 is a Part 25 certification and the other three (3) were all Part 23 certs. I also realize that Part 25 airframes were designed (allegedly) for a crew of two (2), whereas Part 23 airframes were designed (allegedly) for SP. I realize the PC-24 won't be deliverable until 2017 and is allegedly all sold out for that year (though I suspect there will be slots that come open for various reasons during 2017). The Dalai Lama I have is that the Legacy 450 more closely matches the solution I need due to its range and cabin capacity. It simply does more than the other three - as well it should - it is more aircraft.

The question is this:

As experienced multi-engine turbine pilots with plenty of congested class bravo exposure, would you feel comfortable, competent and safe operating the Legacy 450 with a Single Pilot Exemption and/or Waiver, at between 250 to 425 flight hours per year as owner/operator?

Those 250 to 425 flight hours will be a random mixture of IFR short/medium range, day and night, as well as flights into and out of HDA airports/conditions ranging from class bravo down to uncontrolled/no tower.

The key here for me is the range and cabin. The 450 offers 2,500nm with NBAA reserves and four souls on-board. It also offers a bump up on cruise speeds at altitude over the other three. The avionics would be no more or less 'complex' than any of the others and getting the 450 to meet the physical SP Exemption status requirements should not be a problem.

I'm looking for honest pros and cons to the safe Single-Pilot operation of the 450, as compared to the others and whether or not *you* would feel comfortable functioning that way, or would you feel more comfortable with one of the other three (if so, why).

I am trying to keep my Wife happy by reducing fuel stops while providing cabin/creature comforts for both her and her guests/invitees. I am trying to keep myself happy by remaining PIC as flying is (also) what I love to do. Keeping everybody happy is hard.

I will be attending the last NBAA in St. Louis this September, seeking more input from experienced turbine pilots and talking with manufacturers as well about what they think and why.

Thanks for the input!

07-23-2015, 11:58 PM
The Legacy 450 is not going to be a single pilot aircraft.

Lantern X
07-27-2015, 05:39 PM
The Legacy 450 is not going to be a single pilot aircraft.

Correct, it is Part 25. I sort of knew that already. My question was about the pros and cons of those already having significant turbine experience, as to what their feelings were with respect to operating the Legacy 450 on a Single Pilot Exemption which can be obtained for aircraft certified under Part 25, like the Cessna Citation V as just one example: Citation V Single Pilot Exemption - Florida Flight Center. (

Thanks for the input.

07-28-2015, 12:46 PM
A lot of this depends on your personal flight experience (and I mean EXPERIENCE, not ratings)

If you're a private pilot and don't have crew time in a turbojet, I would not even consider SP jet ops on a waiver. My gut feel would be to get 1000 hours crew time first. Obviously insurance would require some supervised OE in any event.

250+ hours/year, combined with what I assume would be an insurance-mandated annual trip to flight safety should be sufficient to MAINTAIN proficiency...acquiring said proficiency would depend on your existing flight experience. You'll want to fly as much as possible when you initially acquire the airplane...most folks will tell you they don't feel completely comfortable in a new jet until they have 1000 hours in type.

Personally I would feel comfortable doing SP jet ops, but I'm an airline PIC with multiple types and thousands of jet hours.

07-28-2015, 01:41 PM
It is highly, HIGHLY doubtful a SPW will ever be authorized for the 450.

The Legacy 450 is a whole nother animal compared to a 500-series Citation.