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Wright cyclones
08-01-2015, 07:06 PM
Hello........................

How do I transfer my B-747-400 type from China to my USA FAA ATP ???

I was told you cannot, and I was also told you can; simply get the US FAA rep in Tokyo to sit in on your next PC in Tokyo or Singapore.

Or................is it as simple as showing my Chinese ATP to the FAA in SFO, SEA or LAX and have it typed up on my FAA ATP ????

Any comments. Please reply.

Wright cyclones


Braniff DC8
08-01-2015, 07:10 PM
Only one way, Pan Am in Miami has a course. No on the FAA. Or you can just apply to National or Atlas and they'll type you.

Twin Wasp
08-02-2015, 01:11 AM
Unless you have a Canadian license, for a FAA type rating on an ATP you must complete a course of instruction at a FAA approved training center including ground school and simulator, be signed off by an approved instructor (one on staff at a FAA approved 744 school), pass an oral exam and checkride.

How long the course of instruction lasts depends. Many training centers have a "short course" for pilots with time on type. The oral exam and checkride will be the same as someone who has never flown the aircraft. Expect a 4 hour oral and 2.5 hour checkride.


captjns
08-02-2015, 09:15 AM
Hello........................

How do I transfer my B-747-400 type from China to my USA FAA ATP ???

I was told you cannot, and I was also told you can; simply get the US FAA rep in Tokyo to sit in on your next PC in Tokyo or Singapore.

Or................is it as simple as showing my Chinese ATP to the FAA in SFO, SEA or LAX and have it typed up on my FAA ATP ????

Any comments. Please reply.

Wright cyclones

Call Pan Am in MIA. You can always call an Ops Inspector at any FSDO.

CloudSpirit
08-02-2015, 05:29 PM
There is exactly zero reciprocity between the FAA and CAAC. This is why, as a newhire with a zillion hrs on type you have to take a full checkride and do the written ATP aaaand get a Chinese "medical"... Jion the rest of us expats trying to repatriate: you WILL take at least a short course gound and sim with a full check ride with the FAA.

Let us know how it goes! I've heard of guys spending upwards of 20k to get a Chinese type "added" to their Orville and Wilbur card.

C.S.

Wright cyclones
08-03-2015, 10:21 AM
Yes.......................I have heard and did get involved in some of the horror stories in China.

I know of several who call the US FAA Asia headquarters in Tokyo and arranged for the inspector to sit in on the sim PC and get there US type on a regular sim ride.

It has and can be done.

And yes, I know of a pilot that did spend 18,000 dollars trying to get his type and is still to this day does not have it.

He now has a well known, high powered lawyer in Washington DC ready to file against the FAA and there constant changing and interpreting various international arrangements on training. He has a good record of wins against the paper pushers at DOT and the FAA.

He is ultra sharp and has a good case; so stay tuned on this upcoming lawsuit.


Thanks for all the replys. Looks like Pan Am is it.


Wright Cyclones.

NEDude
08-03-2015, 07:48 PM
Unless you have a Canadian license, for a FAA type rating on an ATP you must complete a course of instruction at a FAA approved training center including ground school and simulator, be signed off by an approved instructor (one on staff at a FAA approved 744 school), pass an oral exam and checkride.

How long the course of instruction lasts depends. Many training centers have a "short course" for pilots with time on type. The oral exam and checkride will be the same as someone who has never flown the aircraft. Expect a 4 hour oral and 2.5 hour checkride.

How about adding the Chinese type rating to a Canadian license?

NEDude
08-03-2015, 10:03 PM
How about adding the Chinese type rating to a Canadian license?

I should clarify this. Getting a Canadian license from an FAA license is very easy and only costs at most around $500 (I spent a little less than that). Transferring type ratings between TCCA and the FAA is very easy. So if Canada has an easy way to add a type rating from China, it would be a round about way, but far less expensive than enrolling in a full U.S. type rating course.

On a side note...having lived outside the United States for a few years it is surprising how little the U.S. cooperates with other countries on a wide array of issues.

Twin Wasp
08-04-2015, 12:56 AM
They thought to this. The agreement between the US and Canada says if the license/certificate from the other country is based on a third country's license they won't convert it.

captjns
08-04-2015, 04:21 AM
On a side note...having lived outside the United States for a few years it is surprising how little the U.S. cooperates with other countries on a wide array of issues.

Flew in Euroland for close to 5 years. The 14 exams are tantamount to rabies shots. The cost of the exams were ~$1,700. The initial medical ~$1,000. Had to take an Air Ops and Air Law exam for the validation at the tune of $400 for which no credit was given towards the 14 exams. Validations until the JAR was issued ~$350 every six months. Luckily the company simulator check was accepted by the IAA... big bucks savings their.

That said adding a type to one's ATP my cost a bit of money, but it's a walk in park by comparison.

NEDude
08-04-2015, 09:38 AM
Flew in Euroland for close to 5 years. The 14 exams are tantamount to rabies shots. The cost of the exams were ~$1,700. The initial medical ~$1,000. Had to take an Air Ops and Air Law exam for the validation at the tune of $400 for which no credit was given towards the 14 exams. Validations until the JAR was issued ~$350 every six months. Luckily the company simulator check was accepted by the IAA... big bucks savings their.

That said adding a type to one's ATP my cost a bit of money, but it's a walk in park by comparison.

I was speaking of more than just aviation matters.

The Dominican
08-05-2015, 02:11 PM
I've heard of guys spending upwards of 20k to get a Chinese type "added" to their Orville and Wilbur card.

C.S.

For the love of the all mighty....Why?

Having time on type and which seat is what boosts your resume..., on what CAA license you flew those hours makes absolutely no difference. In the case that you will fly the same type in a job back in the US..., you will go through training anyway so the certification cost will be paid by your company..., having that type on your US certificate will make no difference as to your chances of getting a job back home so please don't waist your money....!

If any of you have 20K that need to be spent...., spend it on a waterfront lot in the Dominican Republic, Belize, or the Yucatan peninsula..., it will actually make you some money 10 or 15 years down the road instead of being just a silly investment with no return whatsoever.

CloudSpirit
08-05-2015, 04:47 PM
For the love of the all mighty....Why?

I totally agree with you T.D.; but, IF you want to go do contract work elsewhere in the world you're going to have to get the type on your home country's aviation members-only card.

But, you are partially correct that US carriers don't give a smack about the CAAC license; time on type is supposed to be king. IN THEORY.

However, repatriating is not so easy. DAL isn't going to welcome you to interview with a red carpet and flash-bulb photography, i.e. "Welcome home, mercenary! We are so happy to have you back, please fly for us now with your Chinese-molded skills. Most I know are lucky to land a regional job. IN PRACTICE.

Cheers,
C.S.

The Dominican
08-05-2015, 06:34 PM
I don't agree with that CS...., guys ARE getting jobs at the majors including DAL..., I personally know many guys that have taken jobs back in the US and none of them spent thousands in getting their type on the FAA license.....!

What you hear all the time is how many guys are not getting called because that is what feeds this type of b%^*th boards, the guys that are getting the jobs don't post here usually.

Spending thousands on placing a type on your FAA license if it comes from your Chinese CAAC license or any of the ICAO subscribing nations will not give you ANY advantage, frankly a lot of people that troll on this sites are hell bent on insinuating that if you come from abroad and apply to the US majors it will actually hurt your chances...., that is just plain nonsense.

The majors are hiring from all sort of backgrounds but not everyone will get hired regardless of their background, there is a difference.

EXPAT1
08-06-2015, 02:32 AM
If you stay in the ExPat world as a contract pilot you might be forced to up and get the FAA type. For example if you are flying a 737 in China and you don't have the FAA type you might not be able to change jobs and fly in several countries unless you have it on your HOME country ie where your passport is issued. I have known several pilots who have had to get an FAA type for jobs in Singapore, Fiji and African countries.

The Canadian type should work for you as described here earlier and do some research as there several threads here and on Pprune describing this process and it has and does work but is more time consuming. If you have the time though it has been utilized by many pilots as a way to avoid the conversion costs like Pan Am charges.

Typhoonpilot
08-06-2015, 04:07 AM
What I am actually not understanding here is how someone got a job in China without the type on their home country's license in the first place. The majority of the people go there typed with time in type already. Only a few opportunities to change types exist, i.e. the China Southern or Hainan B787 job.


TP

NEDude
08-06-2015, 11:09 AM
What I am actually not understanding here is how someone got a job in China without the type on their home country's license in the first place. The majority of the people go there typed with time in type already. Only a few opportunities to change types exist, i.e. the China Southern or Hainan B787 job.


TP

Some of the Chinese airlines have offered a transition to a bigger type after a certain number of hours or years of flying the type you were originally hired on. For example my current airline used to upgrade you to the A330 after 3,000 hours of flying the A320 for them. So you could get the A330 experience even if you never had the experience or type rating on your FAA license.

CloudSpirit
08-06-2015, 06:18 PM
I don't agree with that CS...

My apologies, I think my post was a little obscure. What I was saying is that I agree with you, adding the type to your FAA card does NOT help you get a job necessarily in the USA; BUT, if you want to do contract work as an expat elsewhere in the world you WILL have to get the type added to your FAA card.

Now, if you're saying expats who were flying in, say, Japan (I'm assuming this because of your avatar) are getting jobs at DAL, then yes, you are going to be correct there. The Japanese have a very high standard for flight deck skills and a similar standard for ATC services; on the other hand, the Chinese are... not quite at that level, to be polite. Repatriating from China... it's not as easy UNLESS you have an LOA, recalled from furlough, etc.

Again, based on my personal observations, folks trying to get back into the system from China... it ain't so easy. Not trying to troll here, just sharing my observations without naming names.

C.S.

The Dominican
08-07-2015, 03:32 AM
I wasn't referring to you specifically CS..., my apologies if that is what you understood.

I actually know a handful of folks that were flying in the PRC and are now in DAL, UAL...., not trying to be argumentative here but my personal observation as you mention is that spending money to place a type on your US certificate will produce no advantage whatsoever.

EXPAT1
08-07-2015, 08:23 AM
What I am actually not understanding here is how someone got a job in China without the type on their home country's license in the first place. The majority of the people go there typed with time in type already. Only a few opportunities to change types exist, i.e. the China Southern or Hainan B787 job.
TP

I agree the majority are time on type pilots but there have been a substantial amount of NTR guys in China. Many of the 747 guys like Jade Cargo and Air China Cargo and Grand China Cargo were hiring NTR. When Jade went out about 50 pilots scattered to various Chinese companies like Shenzhen, China Southern, Juneyao, Xiamen, Air Spring, Hainan and others. Juneyao and SF Express still hire NTR pilots and Tianjin has quite a few E-145 guys who have upgraded on the E-175/190.

The issue is if you move to certain countries they require your home country license to have your type ratings ie where your passport is issued. Pilots who have dual citizenship may have a bonus here. The Canadian ATP has worked well for many pilots but it is time consuming and will require a few trips to Canada and also taking a 20 question ATP test. If you are in a hurry then Pan Am or somebody similar who offers an accelerated ground school minimal sim course is the way to go.

The Dominican
08-08-2015, 04:01 AM
The issue is if you move to certain countries they require your home country license to have your type ratings ie where your passport is issued.

I haven't come across this particular scenario before, nor have heard of anyone that has encountered this issue....!

Could you point out a specific example of a job that will only accept your type rating based on the country where your passport was issued?:confused:

CloudSpirit
08-08-2015, 07:27 AM
Could you point out a specific example of a job that will only accept your type rating based on the country where your passport was issued?:confused:

OK, let's say you flew an EMB145 in the USA at, for kicks, Eagle. You had accrued 1000 PIC and took a shot at an operator in Japan flying the CRJ700, say IBEX. They took you NTR into the left seat and you pulled a 3-year contract with a JCAB ATPL, CRJ Type. At the end, satisfied with your time in Sendai and ready to explore the world more you find Garuda is hiring expats into the left seat. So, Indonesia sounds your speed and you throw in your app: OOPS! Sorry pal, the DGCA wants that type on your FAA license, can you go do that real quick?

15k later, pockets turned inside out at the door of FSI in St Louis you're ready to go dodging typhoons around the South Pacific.

C.S.

NEDude
08-08-2015, 10:25 AM
Does anyone know if Transport Canada will add a Chinese type? I do not care if the FAA will add it or not. I have dual US/EU (not going to say which country) citizenship and my Canadian ATPL lists my EU citizenship, not my US. So if I were in that situation, I would like to add a Chinese type to my TCCA license and then use that for other contract work if able.

EXPAT1
08-08-2015, 11:31 AM
Does anyone know if Transport Canada will add a Chinese type? I do not care if the FAA will add it or not. I have dual US/EU (not going to say which country) citizenship and my Canadian ATPL lists my EU citizenship, not my US. So if I were in that situation, I would like to add a Chinese type to my TCCA license and then use that for other contract work if able.

I know of 2 Canadians who within the past 2 years have added 737 to their Canadian ATPL so it should work. There are a few threads both here and on Pprune describing the rules/policies.

Another example is most carriers in Singapore will only accept your licenses from your home country and several African nations. This is becoming more common as an increased security and background check on your criminal background and accident/incident checks. Unfortunately it is an ever-increasing trend in Asia.

NEDude
08-08-2015, 10:51 PM
I know of 2 Canadians who within the past 2 years have added 737 to their Canadian ATPL so it should work. There are a few threads both here and on Pprune describing the rules/policies.

Another example is most carriers in Singapore will only accept your licenses from your home country and several African nations. This is becoming more common as an increased security and background check on your criminal background and accident/incident checks. Unfortunately it is an ever-increasing trend in Asia.

However China is not doing that yet. In fact China is requesting several pilots from European countries to change their license issuing country to the UK from their home country. My airline just had several Czech pilots get delayed because the CAAC decided they did not want to deal with Czech licenses. They were told to convert their Czech EASA licenses to UK EASA licenses. We also had a Dutch guy who had to change his Dutch EASA license over to a UK EASA license due to the CAAC.

CloudSpirit
08-09-2015, 08:15 AM
...In fact China is requesting several pilots from European countries to change their license issuing country to the UK from their home country. My airline just had several Czech pilots get delayed because the CAAC decided they did not want to deal with Czech licenses. They were told to convert their Czech EASA licenses to UK EASA licenses. We also had a Dutch guy who had to change his Dutch EASA license over to a UK EASA license due to the CAAC.

And then get dropped a month after spending money to get the conversion done (would make perfect sense as a follow up). LOL China! It's one horror story after another. A couple of colleagues got the circle to land removed and then get dropped from the interview process; and that is just the latest. Plenty of other stores like that over the years. Roll the dice and hope you don't get snake-eyes Mao!

SMH...

NEDude
08-09-2015, 10:49 PM
And then get dropped a month after spending money to get the conversion done (would make perfect sense as a follow up). LOL China! It's one horror story after another. A couple of colleagues got the circle to land removed and then get dropped from the interview process; and that is just the latest. Plenty of other stores like that over the years. Roll the dice and hope you don't get snake-eyes Mao!

SMH...

Agreed, China can be a crapshoot. Been doing the China thing a year and a half, pay has been as promised so far, but have seen many guys get dinged a significant amount as punishment for silly little things. I was threatened with losing close to half a month of pay if I did not fly illegally. The company cut short my required 36 hour break (due to delays) then said they would change the times to make it look legal. But if I refused to fly it they would change the times to make it look like I did fly illegally and would be punished and be grounded until the CAAC investigated. The money is good, and I went with a 4 week on/4 week off option so my stress gets a nice break. But even with only working in China 50% of the time, I don't know how much longer I can do it. Between the illegal schedules, the sneaky and underhanded way they do things (which is explained as 'that is just how we do things in China'), and the constant delays, it gets to be too much at times.


I live in Europe and my wife works in crew planning for a small airline that is desperate for pilots, so I might end up moving there in the not too distant future. The pay is not nearly as good, and not nearly the same amount of time off, but the stress is far less and they do take good care of their crews.

the turtle
08-10-2015, 01:03 AM
TP

Can a GCAA Typed 777 Captain, who is, say, on a 2 day SEA layover, go to Boeing and get a check-ride and add the type on their FAA ATP?...from say, a former TRE........

just wondering......

Twin Wasp
08-10-2015, 03:20 AM
If he's a "former TRE" that means he's not currently a "TRE." And the U.S. term is "DE," designated examiner. The short answer is no. To do a checkride in a sim it has to be under part 142 which requires a record of ground and flight training before the ride. The training will have to be part of the 142 school's approved syllabus. No one will have an approved two day course.

Typhoonpilot
08-10-2015, 01:53 PM
TP

Can a GCAA Typed 777 Captain, who is, say, on a 2 day SEA layover, go to Boeing and get a check-ride and add the type on their FAA ATP?...from say, a former TRE........

just wondering......


I wish Turtle. As Twin Wasp stated, you'd have to take an approved course. Boeing does have a super accelerated short course now that is a 7-8 day footprint whereas they previously only had the 15 days short course. Not sure on the pricing of them and you'd have to find a training partner to keep the cost low. The sims have all moved from SEA to MIA so it would have to be there. Pan Am have two B777 sims in MIA as well so they might be worth asking too.



TP



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